On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 16:57:32 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
<dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

>On 9/16/2021 10:28 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> On 16/09/2021 01.58, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>> On 16/09/2021 09:15, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>> On 9/15/2021 11:02 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:42:14 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> I memorized ? in trig at Rice University in the summer of 1976 to 10
>>>>>> places.  3.141592654.  Never went beyond that but I had a nerd
>>>>>> buddy at
>>>>>> TAMU who memorized it to 100 places.
>>>>>
>>>>> <pendantry>
>>>>> I would think that
>>>>> 3. 141 592 654
>>>>> was Pi to /nine/ (decimal) places.
>>>>>
>>>>> But perhaps you meant what I would call "ten digits".
>>>>> </pendantry>
>>>>
>>>> Oh well, not a word smith.  I are a programmer !
>>>>
>>> Who can't count!!  ;-)
>>
>> I believe that "off by one" errors are a tradition.
>>
>"They" have a whole language to fix that. C++

Yeah ... but its been "developed" to the point that I don't even
/pretend/ to understand it.

I used to use it but, it turns out, "C with Classes" (and maybe a few
more things) would have done just as well for what I wanted to do.

Note: what I mostly wanted to do was play around with it; strictly an
amateur production, as it were.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

In article <b9d9kgh0qes0qnpfah9f9pkjbcbbrij72c@4ax.com>,
Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 16:57:32 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
><dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>>On 9/16/2021 10:28 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>> On 16/09/2021 01.58, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>>> On 16/09/2021 09:15, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 9/15/2021 11:02 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:42:14 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> I memorized ? in trig at Rice University in the summer of 1976 to 10
>>>>>>> places.� 3.141592654.� Never went beyond that but I had a nerd
>>>>>>> buddy at
>>>>>>> TAMU who memorized it to 100 places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <pendantry>
>>>>>> I would think that
>>>>>> 3. 141 592 654
>>>>>> was Pi to /nine/ (decimal) places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But perhaps you meant what I would call "ten digits".
>>>>>> </pendantry>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh well, not a word smith.� I are a programmer !
>>>>>
>>>> Who can't count!!� ;-)
>>>
>>> I believe that "off by one" errors are a tradition.
>>>
>>"They" have a whole language to fix that. C++
>
>Yeah ... but its been "developed" to the point that I don't even
>/pretend/ to understand it.
>
>I used to use it but, it turns out, "C with Classes" (and maybe a few
>more things) would have done just as well for what I wanted to do.
>
>Note: what I mostly wanted to do was play around with it; strictly an
>amateur production, as it were.

C++ is a mustache drawn on Dennis Ritchie's "Mona Lisa".
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 9:50:38 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:

> Wasn't there once an Intel chip that turned out ... not to count to
> well?
>
> Well, not /count/, perhaps, but perform certain math functions?

Perhaps you're thinking of the earliest Pentium chips.

These used SRT division, and there was an error in a ROM table
it used because of a problem with mask registration, thus for
certain values, division returned an erroneous result.

John Savard

On 9/17/2021 1:59 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 9:50:38 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>
>> Wasn't there once an Intel chip that turned out ... not to count to
>> well?
>>
>> Well, not /count/, perhaps, but perform certain math functions?
>
> Perhaps you're thinking of the earliest Pentium chips.
>
> These used SRT division, and there was an error in a ROM table
> it used because of a problem with mask registration, thus for
> certain values, division returned an erroneous result.
>
> John Savard

Nope, Paul has it correct. But those were two separate hardware
systems. One was Intel math coprocessor error, the other was a custom
??? chip in the Patriot missile system. Oh wow, the Patriot missile
system had a 24 bit cpu, strange.
https://www-users.cse.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/patriot.html

Lynn

On 9/17/2021 10:34 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 16:57:32 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>
>> On 9/16/2021 10:28 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>> On 16/09/2021 01.58, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>>> On 16/09/2021 09:15, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>> On 9/15/2021 11:02 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:42:14 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> I memorized ? in trig at Rice University in the summer of 1976 to 10
>>>>>>> places.  3.141592654.  Never went beyond that but I had a nerd
>>>>>>> buddy at
>>>>>>> TAMU who memorized it to 100 places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <pendantry>
>>>>>> I would think that
>>>>>> 3. 141 592 654
>>>>>> was Pi to /nine/ (decimal) places.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But perhaps you meant what I would call "ten digits".
>>>>>> </pendantry>
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh well, not a word smith.  I are a programmer !
>>>>>
>>>> Who can't count!!  ;-)
>>>
>>> I believe that "off by one" errors are a tradition.
>>>
>> "They" have a whole language to fix that. C++
>
> Yeah ... but its been "developed" to the point that I don't even
> /pretend/ to understand it.
>
> I used to use it but, it turns out, "C with Classes" (and maybe a few
> more things) would have done just as well for what I wanted to do.
>
> Note: what I mostly wanted to do was play around with it; strictly an
> amateur production, as it were.

Our software is 450,000 lines of C++ code with 850,000 lines of Fortran
code. Not for the faint of heart.

And you can use C++ as C with Classes. That is what we mostly do. We
are around 700 classes (hard to tell with all the glue code).

Lynn

On 9/16/2021 10:14 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <si0vsc$1ju$2@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 9/16/2021 6:57 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 9/16/2021 10:28 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>>> On 16/09/2021 01.58, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>>>> On 16/09/2021 09:15, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/15/2021 11:02 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:42:14 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> I memorized ? in trig at Rice University in the summer of 1976 to 10
>>>>>>>> places.  3.141592654.  Never went beyond that but I had a nerd
>>>>>>>> buddy at
>>>>>>>> TAMU who memorized it to 100 places.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <pendantry>
>>>>>>> I would think that
>>>>>>> 3. 141 592 654
>>>>>>> was Pi to /nine/ (decimal) places.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But perhaps you meant what I would call "ten digits".
>>>>>>> </pendantry>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh well, not a word smith.  I are a programmer !
>>>>>>
>>>>> Who can't count!!  ;-)
>>>>
>>>> I believe that "off by one" errors are a tradition.
>>>>
>>> "They" have a whole language to fix that.  C++
>>
>> That is terrible ! And I have been off by one in several computer
>> languages, I have shipped product in ten of them.
>>
>> And Scott Lurndal says that my C++ looks like Fortran. He is probably
>> right.
>>
> We used to have a refrigerator magnet that said, "REAL programers
> cam write a FORTRAN program in any language."
>
FORTRAN was the first language I learned.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.

On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:03:51 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 9/17/2021 1:59 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Thursday, September 16, 2021 at 9:50:38 AM UTC-6, Paul S Person wrote:
>>
>>> Wasn't there once an Intel chip that turned out ... not to count to
>>> well?
>>>
>>> Well, not /count/, perhaps, but perform certain math functions?
>>
>> Perhaps you're thinking of the earliest Pentium chips.
>>
>> These used SRT division, and there was an error in a ROM table
>> it used because of a problem with mask registration, thus for
>> certain values, division returned an erroneous result.
>>
>> John Savard
>
>Nope, Paul has it correct. But those were two separate hardware
>systems. One was Intel math coprocessor error, the other was a custom
>??? chip in the Patriot missile system. Oh wow, the Patriot missile
>system had a 24 bit cpu, strange.
> https://www-users.cse.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/patriot.html

Yes.

I was responding to this long-lost exchange by two people whose
identities are hard to recover:

>>Who can't count!! ;-)
>
>But he can get the computer to do that for him.

and my point was: not always.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:09:24 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 9/17/2021 10:34 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 16:57:32 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/16/2021 10:28 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>>> On 16/09/2021 01.58, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>>>> On 16/09/2021 09:15, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>> On 9/15/2021 11:02 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:42:14 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> I memorized ? in trig at Rice University in the summer of 1976 to 10
>>>>>>>> places.  3.141592654.  Never went beyond that but I had a nerd
>>>>>>>> buddy at
>>>>>>>> TAMU who memorized it to 100 places.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <pendantry>
>>>>>>> I would think that
>>>>>>> 3. 141 592 654
>>>>>>> was Pi to /nine/ (decimal) places.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But perhaps you meant what I would call "ten digits".
>>>>>>> </pendantry>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh well, not a word smith.  I are a programmer !
>>>>>>
>>>>> Who can't count!!  ;-)
>>>>
>>>> I believe that "off by one" errors are a tradition.
>>>>
>>> "They" have a whole language to fix that. C++
>>
>> Yeah ... but its been "developed" to the point that I don't even
>> /pretend/ to understand it.
>>
>> I used to use it but, it turns out, "C with Classes" (and maybe a few
>> more things) would have done just as well for what I wanted to do.
>>
>> Note: what I mostly wanted to do was play around with it; strictly an
>> amateur production, as it were.
>
>Our software is 450,000 lines of C++ code with 850,000 lines of Fortran
>code. Not for the faint of heart.
>
>And you can use C++ as C with Classes. That is what we mostly do. We
>are around 700 classes (hard to tell with all the glue code).

Indeed you can. But you are then accused of not using it correctly,
that is, as an Object-Oriented Language.

One of the most useful "other things" was treating each enum as a
separate type, so that you could use the same tag /with different
values/ in different enums.

In C, the best I've come up with is to use prefixes so each tag is
unique. Of course, then you must, when producing a new enum, check to
be sure the /prefix/ is unique.
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 16:25:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
Heydt) wrote:

> Though that's not all it depends on. My electric blanket has
> bitten the dust because of excessive clawing by my cats. It's
> not that much of a problem at present because the Bay Area is
> hotter than hell in the fall; I plan to replace it when the
> temperature drops, and cover it with another blanket to protect
> it from the wild beasts.

When I had an electric blanket, I would turn it on about an hour
before bedtime to dry out the bed, and then I'd turn it off so it
wouldn't dry out me.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net
http://wlweather.net/PAGEJOY/

In article <er7dkgtg9l8713esiva3cojthrtea7pfue@4ax.com>,
Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 16:25:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>Heydt) wrote:
>
>> Though that's not all it depends on. My electric blanket has
>> bitten the dust because of excessive clawing by my cats. It's
>> not that much of a problem at present because the Bay Area is
>> hotter than hell in the fall; I plan to replace it when the
>> temperature drops, and cover it with another blanket to protect
>> it from the wild beasts.
>
>When I had an electric blanket, I would turn it on about an hour
>before bedtime to dry out the bed, and then I'd turn it off so it
>wouldn't dry out me.
>
Whatever floated your boat in that time and place.

I have a husband whom I love dearly, but he is a polar bear. His
normal body temperature is about a degree lower than mine, and he
has more padding under his skin. So he sits by a window all day
with a fan blowing the outside air onto him, and past him onto
me. Sometimes this is a good thing; sometimes I turn an
additional fan on that blows onto me. But today the outside
temperature was 61 Fahrenheit, and I got into my old Vermont
Country Store flannel PJs and turned on the heating pad that
lives under my feet.

--
Dorothy J. Heydt
Vallejo, California
djheydt at gmail dot com
Www.kithrup.com/~djheydt/

On 19/09/2021 02:22, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:09:24 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9/17/2021 10:34 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 16:57:32 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/16/2021 10:28 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>>>> On 16/09/2021 01.58, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>>>>> On 16/09/2021 09:15, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/15/2021 11:02 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:42:14 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>>>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I memorized ? in trig at Rice University in the summer of 1976 to 10
>>>>>>>>> places.  3.141592654.  Never went beyond that but I had a nerd
>>>>>>>>> buddy at
>>>>>>>>> TAMU who memorized it to 100 places.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <pendantry>
>>>>>>>> I would think that
>>>>>>>> 3. 141 592 654
>>>>>>>> was Pi to /nine/ (decimal) places.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But perhaps you meant what I would call "ten digits".
>>>>>>>> </pendantry>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh well, not a word smith.  I are a programmer !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who can't count!!  ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that "off by one" errors are a tradition.
>>>>>
>>>> "They" have a whole language to fix that. C++
>>>
>>> Yeah ... but its been "developed" to the point that I don't even
>>> /pretend/ to understand it.
>>>
>>> I used to use it but, it turns out, "C with Classes" (and maybe a few
>>> more things) would have done just as well for what I wanted to do.
>>>
>>> Note: what I mostly wanted to do was play around with it; strictly an
>>> amateur production, as it were.
>>
>> Our software is 450,000 lines of C++ code with 850,000 lines of Fortran
>> code. Not for the faint of heart.
>>
>> And you can use C++ as C with Classes. That is what we mostly do. We
>> are around 700 classes (hard to tell with all the glue code).
>
> Indeed you can. But you are then accused of not using it correctly,
> that is, as an Object-Oriented Language.
>
> One of the most useful "other things" was treating each enum as a
> separate type, so that you could use the same tag /with different
> values/ in different enums.
>
> In C, the best I've come up with is to use prefixes so each tag is
> unique. Of course, then you must, when producing a new enum, check to
> be sure the /prefix/ is unique.
>
That's what "find . -type f -exec grep -i abc_ /dev/null {} +" is for[1].

Cheers,
Gary B-)

1 - If I had the proverbial sixpence for every time I've issued that
command, or a variation, I'd be well weighty!! :-)

djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
>In article <er7dkgtg9l8713esiva3cojthrtea7pfue@4ax.com>,
>Joy Beeson <jbeeson@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
>>On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 16:25:34 GMT, djheydt@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
>>Heydt) wrote:
>>
>>> Though that's not all it depends on. My electric blanket has
>>> bitten the dust because of excessive clawing by my cats. It's
>>> not that much of a problem at present because the Bay Area is
>>> hotter than hell in the fall; I plan to replace it when the
>>> temperature drops, and cover it with another blanket to protect
>>> it from the wild beasts.
>>
>>When I had an electric blanket, I would turn it on about an hour
>>before bedtime to dry out the bed, and then I'd turn it off so it
>>wouldn't dry out me.
>>
>Whatever floated your boat in that time and place.

Speaking of floating - a heated waterbed beats an electric blanket
anyday. The only problem is, as you point out below, cases
where the partners need radically different water temperatures.

As I understand it, some of the more expensive modern beds
can adjust both temperature and pressure on each side of
the bed individually.

On Wednesday, 15 September 2021 at 17:35:03 UTC+1, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <3c64kglnrg4m44ioi...@4ax.com>,
> Paul S Person <pspe...@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote:
> >On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 23:15:49 GMT, djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J
> >Heydt) wrote:
> >>[_Farmer in the Sky_ by Robert A. Heinlein]
> >>[...]Heinlein was postulating (a) a mostly rock surface with
> >>some ice, rather than a global ocean with lots of ice; (b) a
> >>"heat trap" that was some sort of force-field whose generators
> >>could get knocked out by an earthquake.
> >>
> >>(a) can be forgiven, since we knew damn-all about Ganymede in 1950;
> >>(b) was handwavium.
> >
> >As such, yes.
> >
> >And yet a blanket can act as a "heat trap" -- and, if one keeps in
> >mind that it is actually just condensed energy, as a force-field.
>
> Yes; but first, catch your force-field. I don't *think* we have
> any force-field technology that could trap heat over the surface
> of an iceworld; but I am neither a physicist nor an engineer and
> I don't keep up with the news in those fields.

That leaves Saran wrap. :-) Oh, but they changed
the formula and it's oxygen permeable!
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saran_(plastic)>

> >And an /electric/ blanket could be said to depend on a generator.
>
> Though that's not all it depends on. My electric blanket has
> bitten the dust because of excessive clawing by my cats. It's
> not that much of a problem at present because the Bay Area is
> hotter than hell in the fall; I plan to replace it when the
> temperature drops, and cover it with another blanket to protect
> it from the wild beasts.

Maybe it was explained to me before that being
anxious about a blanket that is full of electricity
is foolish but... cats aside, what happens if you
spill your coffee? I feel I would rather have
something in the bed that just conducts the heat
which is produced elsewhere.

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 14:44:08 +1000, "Gary R. Schmidt"
<grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:

>On 19/09/2021 02:22, Paul S Person wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:09:24 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 9/17/2021 10:34 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 16:57:32 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 9/16/2021 10:28 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>>>>> On 16/09/2021 01.58, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>>>>>> On 16/09/2021 09:15, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 9/15/2021 11:02 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:42:14 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>>>>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I memorized ? in trig at Rice University in the summer of 1976 to 10
>>>>>>>>>> places.  3.141592654.  Never went beyond that but I had a nerd
>>>>>>>>>> buddy at
>>>>>>>>>> TAMU who memorized it to 100 places.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> <pendantry>
>>>>>>>>> I would think that
>>>>>>>>> 3. 141 592 654
>>>>>>>>> was Pi to /nine/ (decimal) places.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> But perhaps you meant what I would call "ten digits".
>>>>>>>>> </pendantry>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Oh well, not a word smith.  I are a programmer !
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who can't count!!  ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I believe that "off by one" errors are a tradition.
>>>>>>
>>>>> "They" have a whole language to fix that. C++
>>>>
>>>> Yeah ... but its been "developed" to the point that I don't even
>>>> /pretend/ to understand it.
>>>>
>>>> I used to use it but, it turns out, "C with Classes" (and maybe a few
>>>> more things) would have done just as well for what I wanted to do.
>>>>
>>>> Note: what I mostly wanted to do was play around with it; strictly an
>>>> amateur production, as it were.
>>>
>>> Our software is 450,000 lines of C++ code with 850,000 lines of Fortran
>>> code. Not for the faint of heart.
>>>
>>> And you can use C++ as C with Classes. That is what we mostly do. We
>>> are around 700 classes (hard to tell with all the glue code).
>>
>> Indeed you can. But you are then accused of not using it correctly,
>> that is, as an Object-Oriented Language.
>>
>> One of the most useful "other things" was treating each enum as a
>> separate type, so that you could use the same tag /with different
>> values/ in different enums.
>>
>> In C, the best I've come up with is to use prefixes so each tag is
>> unique. Of course, then you must, when producing a new enum, check to
>> be sure the /prefix/ is unique.
>>
>That's what "find . -type f -exec grep -i abc_ /dev/null {} +" is for[1].

Thanks.

I'll stick with Source Navigator -- which provides a "Grep" screen I
can just type the proposed prefix into to see if it is currently in
use.

Source Navigator, of course, has other uses as well.

Note: as always, Source Navigator is simply the first program of its
class that I happened upon. No claim as to whether it is best, worst,
or somewhere in between is intended.

>1 - If I had the proverbial sixpence for every time I've issued that
>command, or a variation, I'd be well weighty!! :-)
--
"I begin to envy Petronius."
"I have envied him long since."

Scott Lurndal wrote:
> djh...@kithrup.com (Dorothy J Heydt) writes:
> >In article <er7dkgtg9l8713esi...@4ax.com>,
> >Joy Beeson <jbe...@invalid.net.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>When I had an electric blanket, I would turn it on about an hour
> >>before bedtime to dry out the bed, and then I'd turn it off so it
> >>wouldn't dry out me.
> >>
> >Whatever floated your boat in that time and place.
> Speaking of floating - a heated waterbed beats an electric blanket
> anyday. The only problem is, as you point out below, cases
> where the partners need radically different water temperatures.

There's a joke there...
"Honey, can you help me with the settings? I've got the temperature where I want it, but I can't change the firmness."
"Ice only has the one firmness setting, dear."

--
-Jack

Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote in
news:4b32c93d-214e-4045-b161-8bf7fcd3318dn@googlegroups.com:

> Scott Lurndal wrote:
<snip>
>> >Whatever floated your boat in that time and place.
>> Speaking of floating - a heated waterbed beats an electric blanket
>> anyday. The only problem is, as you point out below, cases
>> where the partners need radically different water temperatures.
>
> There's a joke there...
> "Honey, can you help me with the settings? I've got the temperature
> where I want it, but I can't change the firmness." "Ice only has the one
> firmness setting, dear."

This made me laugh out loud. Thanks for that!

But it is a truism, whatever you have set the waterbed temperature at is the
temperature at which you will wake up. It is inevitable.

Lafe

Lafe wrote:
> Jack Bohn <jack....@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:4b32c93d-214e-4045...@googlegroups.com:
>
> > Scott Lurndal wrote:
> <snip>
> >> >Whatever floated your boat in that time and place.
> >> Speaking of floating - a heated waterbed beats an electric blanket
> >> anyday. The only problem is, as you point out below, cases
> >> where the partners need radically different water temperatures.
> >
> > There's a joke there...
> > "Honey, can you help me with the settings? I've got the temperature
> > where I want it, but I can't change the firmness." "Ice only has the one
> > firmness setting, dear."
> This made me laugh out loud. Thanks for that!
>
> But it is a truism, whatever you have set the waterbed temperature at is the
> temperature at which you will wake up. It is inevitable.

In addition to the idea of putting heat where you are instead of the whole house, a waterbed is also a thermal mass. (How much? if 2m by 2m, even at a quarter meter thick, that's a ton of water!) And should help in house temperature control. Alas, the converse, of cooling doesn't seem to work, even a "cool" waterbed is probably just below body temperature, way above any room temperature that it would be worth installing an air conditioner to achieve.

--
-Jack

On 9/18/2021 11:22 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 17:09:24 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9/17/2021 10:34 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>> On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 16:57:32 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
>>> <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 9/16/2021 10:28 AM, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>>>> On 16/09/2021 01.58, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>>>>> On 16/09/2021 09:15, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>>>>> On 9/15/2021 11:02 AM, Paul S Person wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 17:42:14 -0500, Lynn McGuire
>>>>>>>> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I memorized ? in trig at Rice University in the summer of 1976 to 10
>>>>>>>>> places.  3.141592654.  Never went beyond that but I had a nerd
>>>>>>>>> buddy at
>>>>>>>>> TAMU who memorized it to 100 places.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <pendantry>
>>>>>>>> I would think that
>>>>>>>> 3. 141 592 654
>>>>>>>> was Pi to /nine/ (decimal) places.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But perhaps you meant what I would call "ten digits".
>>>>>>>> </pendantry>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Oh well, not a word smith.  I are a programmer !
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Who can't count!!  ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe that "off by one" errors are a tradition.
>>>>>
>>>> "They" have a whole language to fix that. C++
>>>
>>> Yeah ... but its been "developed" to the point that I don't even
>>> /pretend/ to understand it.
>>>
>>> I used to use it but, it turns out, "C with Classes" (and maybe a few
>>> more things) would have done just as well for what I wanted to do.
>>>
>>> Note: what I mostly wanted to do was play around with it; strictly an
>>> amateur production, as it were.
>>
>> Our software is 450,000 lines of C++ code with 850,000 lines of Fortran
>> code. Not for the faint of heart.
>>
>> And you can use C++ as C with Classes. That is what we mostly do. We
>> are around 700 classes (hard to tell with all the glue code).
>
> Indeed you can. But you are then accused of not using it correctly,
> that is, as an Object-Oriented Language.
>
> One of the most useful "other things" was treating each enum as a
> separate type, so that you could use the same tag /with different
> values/ in different enums.
>
> In C, the best I've come up with is to use prefixes so each tag is
> unique. Of course, then you must, when producing a new enum, check to
> be sure the /prefix/ is unique.

The best answer is that my graphical process IDE (interactive
development environment) for Chemical Engineers just works. Wow, those
screen shots are old, I need to update them.
https://www.winsim.com/screenshots.html

We started writing our diagrammatic front end for Windows in 1985 using
Windows 1.0. I joined the project in 1993 (I think, not sure). It has
been a long strange journey since then.

Lynn

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:18:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>We started writing our diagrammatic front end for Windows in 1985 using
>Windows 1.0. I joined the project in 1993 (I think, not sure). It has
>been a long strange journey since then.
>
>Lynn

Wow - I got a pirated copy of Windows 1.0 on a single 5.25" floppy way
back when. (Which I never installed as I was then on a later version
of Windows 3)

Got rid of it about 3 years ago when I ditched the last of my 5.25"
floppies.

I remember back in 1979 when I got my Apple II that I paid $ 72.00 for
a box of 10 of those.....

I work in a family business and remember when my father moaned that I
'never took work home anymore'. I patted my laptop and said I could
either take this home or THIS home (waving a USB stick about) saying
"I've got the software I need at home to do this - I just need the
data file and THIS contains it!". Dear old dad just didn't get
it...this would have been roughly 2002-2004.

On 9/20/2021 3:46 PM, The Horny Goat wrote:
> On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 15:18:30 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We started writing our diagrammatic front end for Windows in 1985 using
>> Windows 1.0. I joined the project in 1993 (I think, not sure). It has
>> been a long strange journey since then.
>>
>> Lynn
>
> Wow - I got a pirated copy of Windows 1.0 on a single 5.25" floppy way
> back when. (Which I never installed as I was then on a later version
> of Windows 3)
>
> Got rid of it about 3 years ago when I ditched the last of my 5.25"
> floppies.
>
> I remember back in 1979 when I got my Apple II that I paid $ 72.00 for
> a box of 10 of those.....
>
> I work in a family business and remember when my father moaned that I
> 'never took work home anymore'. I patted my laptop and said I could
> either take this home or THIS home (waving a USB stick about) saying
> "I've got the software I need at home to do this - I just need the
> data file and THIS contains it!". Dear old dad just didn't get
> it...this would have been roughly 2002-2004.

I still have about a thousand 5.25" and 3.5" floppies in my office.
Since most are licensed software that we redistributed to our customers
over the decades, I hate to get rid of them.

Lynn

On 15/09/21 2:58 pm, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 21:34:11 -0500, Lynn McGuire
> <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 9/14/2021 8:40 PM, Default User wrote:
>>> In Roger MacBride Allen's Chronicles of Solace triolgy, humans had
>>> terraformed several worlds and colonized them. Now the terraforming is
>>> coming undone.
>>>
>>>
>>> Brian
>>
>> It is hard to stop the terraforming once you start ? Or the
>> terraforming is rewinding ?
>
> Terraforming Mars won't undo the factors that make it Mars. It will
> still have low gravity, no plate tectonics, and no magnetic field. So
> without maintenance it should revert to being Mars.
>
> A successful terraforming of Venus might be a different story.
>

In Gardens of the Sun by Paul McAuley the moons of Jupiter onwards
through to Pluto are colonised through artificial shelters many larger
than city size so not terraformed though the land/ground in the shelter is.

On 20/09/2021 12.16, Jack Bohn wrote:
> Lafe wrote:

>> But it is a truism, whatever you have set the waterbed temperature at is the
>> temperature at which you will wake up. It is inevitable.
>
> In addition to the idea of putting heat where you are instead of the whole house, a waterbed is also a thermal mass. (How much? if 2m by 2m, even at a quarter meter thick, that's a ton of water!)

When I bought my waterbed (1976), that is what they said: roughly
a ton.

> And should help in house temperature control. Alas, the converse, of cooling doesn't seem to work, even a "cool" waterbed is probably just below body temperature,

Assuming that you unplug the heater for the summer, the bed is probably
going to be at the average (over the last day or so) of room
temperature. Highly likely to be several degrees lower than body
temperature.

However, there is one big difference between air at that temperature
and a ton of water at that temperature. Air cools by convection, and
a layer of air adjacent to the skin is going to be warmer than the
ambient by several degrees. Water, on the other hand, cools by
conduction. If your body spends the night trying to heat a ton of
water from 80 F to 90 F, it's going to be pumping a lot of calories
into that water. (If you are in Europe, it will be pumping a lot of
Joules into the water. The effect is the same.)

--
Michael F. Stemper
Psalm 82:3-4

"Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> writes:
>On 20/09/2021 12.16, Jack Bohn wrote:

>However, there is one big difference between air at that temperature
>and a ton of water at that temperature. Air cools by convection, and
>a layer of air adjacent to the skin is going to be warmer than the
>ambient by several degrees. Water, on the other hand, cools by
>conduction. If your body spends the night trying to heat a ton of
>water from 80 F to 90 F, it's going to be pumping a lot of calories
>into that water. (If you are in Europe, it will be pumping a lot of
>Joules into the water. The effect is the same.)

I keep mine at 80F year round. Keeps me cool on 100+ F
summer days, and warm on 32 F winter nights.

On 2021-09-22, Scott Lurndal <scott@slp53.sl.home> wrote:
> "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> writes:
>>On 20/09/2021 12.16, Jack Bohn wrote:
>
>>However, there is one big difference between air at that temperature
>>and a ton of water at that temperature. Air cools by convection, and
>>a layer of air adjacent to the skin is going to be warmer than the
>>ambient by several degrees. Water, on the other hand, cools by
>>conduction. If your body spends the night trying to heat a ton of
>>water from 80 F to 90 F, it's going to be pumping a lot of calories
>>into that water. (If you are in Europe, it will be pumping a lot of
>>Joules into the water. The effect is the same.)
>
> I keep mine at 80F year round. Keeps me cool on 100+ F
> summer days, and warm on 32 F winter nights.

We keep ours at 80F also (both halves of a dual control bed). The
temperature needed to be set considerably higher for our earlier
waterbed frame which didn't have a thicker pillow-top covering. (This
is our second frame, third set of bladders for the past 40 years).

Chris

On Mon, 20 Sep 2021 10:16:00 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:

> In addition to the idea of putting heat where you are instead of the whole house, a waterbed is also a thermal mass. (How much? if 2m by 2m, even at a quarter meter thick, that's a ton of water!) And should help in house temperature control. Alas, the converse, of cooling doesn't seem to work, even a "cool" waterbed is probably just below body temperature, way above any room temperature that it would be worth installing an air conditioner to achieve.

And that ton of water will drive your body temperature to match its
body temperature. Despite a wool mattress pad, I had to sleep draped
over pillows.

And then there's awakening at three A.M. to the need to siphon a ton
of water out through a second-floor window.

--
Joy Beeson
joy beeson at centurylink dot net