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arts / rec.music.classical.recordings / Re: Byrd anniversary....

SubjectAuthor
* Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
`* Re: Byrd anniversary....mINE109
 `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  +* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  |+- Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  |+* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  ||`* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || +* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |`* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || | +* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || | |+- Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || | |`* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || | | `* Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || | |  `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || | |   `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || | |    `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || | |     `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || | |      +* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || | |      |`* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || | |      | `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || | |      |  `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || | |      |   `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || | |      |    `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || | |      |     `- Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || | |      `* Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || | |       `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || | |        `* Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || | |         `- Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || | `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || |  `* Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || |   `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || |    `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || |     +* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || |     |`* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |     | `* Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || |     |  `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |     |   `- Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || |     `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |      `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || |       `* Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || |        `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || |         `* Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || |          `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |           `* Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || |            +- Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |            `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |             `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  || |              `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |               `* Re: Byrd anniversary....cheregi
  || |                `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |                 `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |                  +- Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |                  `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || |                   `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Paolo Pesenti
  || |                    `- Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  || `* Re: Byrd anniversary....mINE109
  ||  `* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  ||   `- Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  |+- Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  |+* Re: Byrd anniversary....Mandryka
  ||`- Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  |`- Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb
  `- Re: Byrd anniversary....Todd M. McComb

Pages:123
Re: Byrd anniversary....

<70657f1a-451d-425c-9ea1-fe3c2c5d5e1an@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
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 by: Mandryka - Mon, 13 Nov 2023 13:31 UTC

On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 12:31:58 PM UTC, cheregi wrote:
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 7:22:32 PM UTC+8, Mandryka wrote:
> > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 9:18:26 AM UTC, cheregi wrote:
> > > I know this is old news for everybody else but after the last ~hour listening to Moroney I'm finally starting to 'get' Byrd. I think the mistake I made in the past was to start with the fantasies, which I usually hear as bewilderingly technical, but this time I'm really fixated on the galliard-pavane sets, I love the 'ponderous-playfulness' feeling and the queasy medieval-seeming pseudo-major feeling... there is a, like, arcane directness, like something is being stated very clearly but the thing being stated is complex enough to demand various arbitrary-seeming left turns, I don't know
> > There are some very complex contrapuntal pavans by Byrd -- Quadran, 7th and 8th.
> > This Pavan/Galliard genre was quite a big thing in the UK at the time -- Bull wrote a set too, which as far as I know only Joseph Payne has recorded as a sequence.
> > Moroney asserted that they're peak Byrd in the essay he wrote for his first recording. For me peak Byrd is probably the A minor fantasia.
> That fantasia is exactly the kind of thing I feel I should appreciate much more than I actually do when I listen to it!
>
> Does Moroney talk about whether the pavan/galliard sets were actually meant for dancing? I've wondered this.

I don't have the booklet any more, and can't remember. Oliver Neighbour, in his book on Byrd, says that "Although Byrd clearly conceived his pavans and galliards primarily as abstract compositions rather than dance music, various formal elements . . . derive from the types of consort dance current during his earlier years." That was published in 1978, so probably well out of date.

Willi Apel is excellent on this music, if you can get a copy of his book on keyboard music to 1700, snap it up.

Re: Byrd anniversary....

<094a24db-b77c-4d11-8756-da738fa943fan@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
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 by: Mandryka - Tue, 14 Nov 2023 18:35 UTC

On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 12:31:58 PM UTC, cheregi wrote:
> On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 7:22:32 PM UTC+8, Mandryka wrote:
> > On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 9:18:26 AM UTC, cheregi wrote:
> > > I know this is old news for everybody else but after the last ~hour listening to Moroney I'm finally starting to 'get' Byrd. I think the mistake I made in the past was to start with the fantasies, which I usually hear as bewilderingly technical, but this time I'm really fixated on the galliard-pavane sets, I love the 'ponderous-playfulness' feeling and the queasy medieval-seeming pseudo-major feeling... there is a, like, arcane directness, like something is being stated very clearly but the thing being stated is complex enough to demand various arbitrary-seeming left turns, I don't know
> > There are some very complex contrapuntal pavans by Byrd -- Quadran, 7th and 8th.
> > This Pavan/Galliard genre was quite a big thing in the UK at the time -- Bull wrote a set too, which as far as I know only Joseph Payne has recorded as a sequence.
> > Moroney asserted that they're peak Byrd in the essay he wrote for his first recording. For me peak Byrd is probably the A minor fantasia.
> That fantasia is exactly the kind of thing I feel I should appreciate much more than I actually do when I listen to it!
>
> Does Moroney talk about whether the pavan/galliard sets were actually meant for dancing? I've wondered this.

Listen to Glen Wilson playing the fantasias, not Moroney - especially the hexachord fantasia.

Re: Byrd anniversary....

<uj0q4a$akm$1@hope.eyrie.org>

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 21:51:06 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Tue, 14 Nov 2023 21:51 UTC

In article <094a24db-b77c-4d11-8756-da738fa943fan@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com> wrote:
>Listen to Glen Wilson playing the fantasias, not Moroney - especially
>the hexachord fantasia.

Moroney definitely doesn't feature the fantasias, and I generally
wish he'd used only harpsichords for the set, but I still prefer
most of his readings. (His BK58 is excellent.) Wilson's program
presentation is great, in terms of pairing with preludes etc., but
his interpretations are distant & ponderous. I enjoy his Spanish
& Italian albums more.

Re: Byrd anniversary....

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 22:37:17 -0000 (UTC)
Organization: Medieval Music & Arts Foundation
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Tue, 14 Nov 2023 22:37 UTC

In article <77ae519e-f972-492c-bd97-8628662d0df2n@googlegroups.com>,
Mandryka <howie.stone01@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, October 16, 2023 at 10:56:31 PM UTC+1, steve...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Any thoughts about Kit Armstrong's recording of Byrd and Bull
>> on DG?
>If you're interested in piano then try Daniel Ben Pienaar's Byrd
>CD - released this year.

Pienaar's is an idiosyncratic pianism, not really projecting the
resonance of the instrument.... Armstrong has some similarities
in this repertory, as both use quick skittery fingers, sort of
hovering over the keys -- apparetnly an attempt to compensate for
not having the rebound of a harpsichord for the various fast runs.
(And Pienaar has also released a complete Gibbons.) For a more
rounded pianism, as I've mentioned before, Alan Feinberg is probably
the most accomplished in his album of Bull & Byrd for Steinway....

Re: Byrd anniversary....

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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
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 by: Mandryka - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 08:58 UTC

On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 9:51:12 PM UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> In article <094a24db-b77c-4d11...@googlegroups.com>,
> Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Listen to Glen Wilson playing the fantasias, not Moroney - especially
> >the hexachord fantasia.
> Moroney definitely doesn't feature the fantasias, and I generally
> wish he'd used only harpsichords for the set, but I still prefer
> most of his readings. (His BK58 is excellent.) Wilson's program
> presentation is great, in terms of pairing with preludes etc., but
> his interpretations are distant & ponderous. I enjoy his Spanish
> & Italian albums more.

This is what I wrote about the hexachord Fantasia in 2019, I listened to Wilson last night in fact, and I liked it very much.

A fluid, moving, noble and intense interpretation of Byrd's fantasie on ut re mi fa sol la, the slowest harpsichord performance on record I know, and I think that Wilson's gamble there paid off. In particular the tempo lets me appreciate the beauty of the dissonant section in the middle.

Wilson's approach is more melodic than contrapuntal, that's to say, he makes the left and right hand music align smoothly, and you don't sense much by way of tensions and collisions between the voices like for example, Richard Egarr and Eliizabeth Farr on harpsichord on the same piece. I suppose it's a case of swings and roundabouts. What you gain in melodiousness and sweetness you lose in complexity and tension.

Re: Byrd anniversary....

<688e716c-0784-4566-a02b-6d50a06cf42en@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: elirke...@gmail.com (cheregi)
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 by: cheregi - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 10:37 UTC

On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 4:58:04 PM UTC+8, Mandryka wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 9:51:12 PM UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > In article <094a24db-b77c-4d11...@googlegroups.com>,
> > Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >Listen to Glen Wilson playing the fantasias, not Moroney - especially
> > >the hexachord fantasia.
> > Moroney definitely doesn't feature the fantasias, and I generally
> > wish he'd used only harpsichords for the set, but I still prefer
> > most of his readings. (His BK58 is excellent.) Wilson's program
> > presentation is great, in terms of pairing with preludes etc., but
> > his interpretations are distant & ponderous. I enjoy his Spanish
> > & Italian albums more.
> This is what I wrote about the hexachord Fantasia in 2019, I listened to Wilson last night in fact, and I liked it very much.
>
> A fluid, moving, noble and intense interpretation of Byrd's fantasie on ut re mi fa sol la, the slowest harpsichord performance on record I know, and I think that Wilson's gamble there paid off. In particular the tempo lets me appreciate the beauty of the dissonant section in the middle.
>
> Wilson's approach is more melodic than contrapuntal, that's to say, he makes the left and right hand music align smoothly, and you don't sense much by way of tensions and collisions between the voices like for example, Richard Egarr and Eliizabeth Farr on harpsichord on the same piece. I suppose it's a case of swings and roundabouts. What you gain in melodiousness and sweetness you lose in complexity and tension.

Comparing Wilson and Moroney in the hexachord fantasia before reading this, I found myself agreeing with Todd - distant and ponderous. But I really like your analysis and will continue to let it simmer. More broadly comparing Moroney, Hogwood, Farr, and Wilson in Byrd, it's really hard to avoid the feeling that Moroney lives and breathes this music on a level far beyond what is expected of EM performers. I keep returning to 'life-affirming' as a description of Byrd's or for example Jenkins' music - tonight I appreciated Spirit of Gambos' Jenkins consort recordings much more than I had in the past. Now I'm listening to the minute-long audio samples of Moroney in works from M.R.N. Couperin's keyboard tablature book, and I'm finding something sort of bleakly depressing about the dances - not quite abstract enough to be thinking/listening-music, but also not quite danceable except in a hopelessly stiff way. After spending a lot of time listening to the dance-based portions of the Ottoman and Persian classical repertoires, I no longer feel like this problem ("rhythmic interpretation of dance-based baroque keyboard music") has been solved in a satisfactory way. And it affects the French composers more than the English of course, but I'm including Byrd's pavan-galliard sets here too.

Re: Byrd anniversary....

<0d9d2835-928a-4a4c-af99-f2de524ef00dn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
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 by: Mandryka - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 11:06 UTC

On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 10:37:17 AM UTC, cheregi wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 4:58:04 PM UTC+8, Mandryka wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 9:51:12 PM UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > > In article <094a24db-b77c-4d11...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >Listen to Glen Wilson playing the fantasias, not Moroney - especially
> > > >the hexachord fantasia.
> > > Moroney definitely doesn't feature the fantasias, and I generally
> > > wish he'd used only harpsichords for the set, but I still prefer
> > > most of his readings. (His BK58 is excellent.) Wilson's program
> > > presentation is great, in terms of pairing with preludes etc., but
> > > his interpretations are distant & ponderous. I enjoy his Spanish
> > > & Italian albums more.
> > This is what I wrote about the hexachord Fantasia in 2019, I listened to Wilson last night in fact, and I liked it very much.
> >
> > A fluid, moving, noble and intense interpretation of Byrd's fantasie on ut re mi fa sol la, the slowest harpsichord performance on record I know, and I think that Wilson's gamble there paid off. In particular the tempo lets me appreciate the beauty of the dissonant section in the middle.
> >
> > Wilson's approach is more melodic than contrapuntal, that's to say, he makes the left and right hand music align smoothly, and you don't sense much by way of tensions and collisions between the voices like for example, Richard Egarr and Eliizabeth Farr on harpsichord on the same piece. I suppose it's a case of swings and roundabouts. What you gain in melodiousness and sweetness you lose in complexity and tension.
> Comparing Wilson and Moroney in the hexachord fantasia before reading this, I found myself agreeing with Todd - distant and ponderous. But I really like your analysis and will continue to let it simmer. More broadly comparing Moroney, Hogwood, Farr, and Wilson in Byrd, it's really hard to avoid the feeling that Moroney lives and breathes this music on a level far beyond what is expected of EM performers. I keep returning to 'life-affirming' as a description of Byrd's or for example Jenkins' music - tonight I appreciated Spirit of Gambos' Jenkins consort recordings much more than I had in the past. Now I'm listening to the minute-long audio samples of Moroney in works from M.R.N. Couperin's keyboard tablature book, and I'm finding something sort of bleakly depressing about the dances - not quite abstract enough to be thinking/listening-music, but also not quite danceable except in a hopelessly stiff way. After spending a lot of time listening to the dance-based portions of the Ottoman and Persian classical repertoires, I no longer feel like this problem ("rhythmic interpretation of dance-based baroque keyboard music") has been solved in a satisfactory way. And it affects the French composers more than the English of course, but I'm including Byrd's pavan-galliard sets here too.

Have you heard the Japanese jazzzer Atsushi Sakai? This sort of thing -- I love it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1aW_Z_4e1g

Re: Byrd anniversary....

<30a5ac94-df6e-4219-b05c-4a5229b9b311n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
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 by: Mandryka - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 18:49 UTC

On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 11:06:59 AM UTC, Mandryka wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 10:37:17 AM UTC, cheregi wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 4:58:04 PM UTC+8, Mandryka wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 9:51:12 PM UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > > > In article <094a24db-b77c-4d11...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > >Listen to Glen Wilson playing the fantasias, not Moroney - especially
> > > > >the hexachord fantasia.
> > > > Moroney definitely doesn't feature the fantasias, and I generally
> > > > wish he'd used only harpsichords for the set, but I still prefer
> > > > most of his readings. (His BK58 is excellent.) Wilson's program
> > > > presentation is great, in terms of pairing with preludes etc., but
> > > > his interpretations are distant & ponderous. I enjoy his Spanish
> > > > & Italian albums more.
> > > This is what I wrote about the hexachord Fantasia in 2019, I listened to Wilson last night in fact, and I liked it very much.
> > >
> > > A fluid, moving, noble and intense interpretation of Byrd's fantasie on ut re mi fa sol la, the slowest harpsichord performance on record I know, and I think that Wilson's gamble there paid off. In particular the tempo lets me appreciate the beauty of the dissonant section in the middle.
> > >
> > > Wilson's approach is more melodic than contrapuntal, that's to say, he makes the left and right hand music align smoothly, and you don't sense much by way of tensions and collisions between the voices like for example, Richard Egarr and Eliizabeth Farr on harpsichord on the same piece. I suppose it's a case of swings and roundabouts. What you gain in melodiousness and sweetness you lose in complexity and tension.
> > Comparing Wilson and Moroney in the hexachord fantasia before reading this, I found myself agreeing with Todd - distant and ponderous. But I really like your analysis and will continue to let it simmer. More broadly comparing Moroney, Hogwood, Farr, and Wilson in Byrd, it's really hard to avoid the feeling that Moroney lives and breathes this music on a level far beyond what is expected of EM performers. I keep returning to 'life-affirming' as a description of Byrd's or for example Jenkins' music - tonight I appreciated Spirit of Gambos' Jenkins consort recordings much more than I had in the past. Now I'm listening to the minute-long audio samples of Moroney in works from M.R.N. Couperin's keyboard tablature book, and I'm finding something sort of bleakly depressing about the dances - not quite abstract enough to be thinking/listening-music, but also not quite danceable except in a hopelessly stiff way. After spending a lot of time listening to the dance-based portions of the Ottoman and Persian classical repertoires, I no longer feel like this problem ("rhythmic interpretation of dance-based baroque keyboard music") has been solved in a satisfactory way. And it affects the French composers more than the English of course, but I'm including Byrd's pavan-galliard sets here too.
> Have you heard the Japanese jazzzer Atsushi Sakai? This sort of thing -- I love it!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1aW_Z_4e1g
And re French keyboard music, I’ll kill some time mentioning some performances which caught my imagination

1. Francois Couperin. Leonhardt (both recordings, they’re quite different from each other) and Asperen - Francois Couperin is only at the top because I listened to his stuff last week.
2. Louis Couperin Hogwood, Asperen - the latest recordings, Leonhardt. Glen Wilson for the preludes.
3. Forqueray - Koopman. Leonhardt’s last - called something like “the bliss and pain of the baroque.”
4. D’Anglebert - Barbara Maria Willi Vol 1 (Vol 2 much less so for some reason.)
5. Lully - Brigitte Tramier (Les Songes d’Athis)
6. Karen Flint
7. Louis Marchand - no one , boring music
8. Jacquet de la Guerre - anyone - the music’s so nice it’s unspoilable.
9. Duphly - Leonhardt
10. Lebêgue - Dunno - I find it quite challenging music actually.
11. Rameau - Dunno, can’t think.
12. Compilation - Colin Tilney “French Dances” - this one

Re: Byrd anniversary....

<1426594a-371a-4208-ae74-11cf9a3509e8n@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
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 by: Mandryka - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 18:51 UTC

On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 6:49:50 PM UTC, Mandryka wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 11:06:59 AM UTC, Mandryka wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 10:37:17 AM UTC, cheregi wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 4:58:04 PM UTC+8, Mandryka wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 9:51:12 PM UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > > > > In article <094a24db-b77c-4d11...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >Listen to Glen Wilson playing the fantasias, not Moroney - especially
> > > > > >the hexachord fantasia.
> > > > > Moroney definitely doesn't feature the fantasias, and I generally
> > > > > wish he'd used only harpsichords for the set, but I still prefer
> > > > > most of his readings. (His BK58 is excellent.) Wilson's program
> > > > > presentation is great, in terms of pairing with preludes etc., but
> > > > > his interpretations are distant & ponderous. I enjoy his Spanish
> > > > > & Italian albums more.
> > > > This is what I wrote about the hexachord Fantasia in 2019, I listened to Wilson last night in fact, and I liked it very much.
> > > >
> > > > A fluid, moving, noble and intense interpretation of Byrd's fantasie on ut re mi fa sol la, the slowest harpsichord performance on record I know, and I think that Wilson's gamble there paid off. In particular the tempo lets me appreciate the beauty of the dissonant section in the middle.
> > > >
> > > > Wilson's approach is more melodic than contrapuntal, that's to say, he makes the left and right hand music align smoothly, and you don't sense much by way of tensions and collisions between the voices like for example, Richard Egarr and Eliizabeth Farr on harpsichord on the same piece. I suppose it's a case of swings and roundabouts. What you gain in melodiousness and sweetness you lose in complexity and tension.
> > > Comparing Wilson and Moroney in the hexachord fantasia before reading this, I found myself agreeing with Todd - distant and ponderous. But I really like your analysis and will continue to let it simmer. More broadly comparing Moroney, Hogwood, Farr, and Wilson in Byrd, it's really hard to avoid the feeling that Moroney lives and breathes this music on a level far beyond what is expected of EM performers. I keep returning to 'life-affirming' as a description of Byrd's or for example Jenkins' music - tonight I appreciated Spirit of Gambos' Jenkins consort recordings much more than I had in the past. Now I'm listening to the minute-long audio samples of Moroney in works from M.R.N. Couperin's keyboard tablature book, and I'm finding something sort of bleakly depressing about the dances - not quite abstract enough to be thinking/listening-music, but also not quite danceable except in a hopelessly stiff way. After spending a lot of time listening to the dance-based portions of the Ottoman and Persian classical repertoires, I no longer feel like this problem ("rhythmic interpretation of dance-based baroque keyboard music") has been solved in a satisfactory way. And it affects the French composers more than the English of course, but I'm including Byrd's pavan-galliard sets here too.
> > Have you heard the Japanese jazzzer Atsushi Sakai? This sort of thing -- I love it!
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1aW_Z_4e1g
> And re French keyboard music, I’ll kill some time mentioning some performances which caught my imagination
>
> 1. Francois Couperin. Leonhardt (both recordings, they’re quite different from each other) and Asperen - Francois Couperin is only at the top because I listened to his stuff last week.
> 2. Louis Couperin Hogwood, Asperen - the latest recordings, Leonhardt. Glen Wilson for the preludes.
> 3. Forqueray - Koopman. Leonhardt’s last - called something like “the bliss and pain of the baroque.”
> 4. D’Anglebert - Barbara Maria Willi Vol 1 (Vol 2 much less so for some reason.)
> 5. Lully - Brigitte Tramier (Les Songes d’Athis)
> 6. Karen Flint
> 7. Louis Marchand - no one , boring music
> 8. Jacquet de la Guerre - anyone - the music’s so nice it’s unspoilable.
> 9. Duphly - Leonhardt
> 10. Lebêgue - Dunno - I find it quite challenging music actually.
> 11. Rameau - Dunno, can’t think.
> 12. Compilation - Colin Tilney “French Dances” - this one

I should have said harpsichord music, not keyboard music. There’s a fabulous world of organ music to think about too.

Re: Byrd anniversary....

<193458e5-cc0a-411c-b3f3-08d8fa19373dn@googlegroups.com>

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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
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 by: Mandryka - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 18:53 UTC

On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 6:49:50 PM UTC, Mandryka wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 11:06:59 AM UTC, Mandryka wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 10:37:17 AM UTC, cheregi wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 4:58:04 PM UTC+8, Mandryka wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 9:51:12 PM UTC, Todd M. McComb wrote:
> > > > > In article <094a24db-b77c-4d11...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > > > Mandryka <howie....@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >Listen to Glen Wilson playing the fantasias, not Moroney - especially
> > > > > >the hexachord fantasia.
> > > > > Moroney definitely doesn't feature the fantasias, and I generally
> > > > > wish he'd used only harpsichords for the set, but I still prefer
> > > > > most of his readings. (His BK58 is excellent.) Wilson's program
> > > > > presentation is great, in terms of pairing with preludes etc., but
> > > > > his interpretations are distant & ponderous. I enjoy his Spanish
> > > > > & Italian albums more.
> > > > This is what I wrote about the hexachord Fantasia in 2019, I listened to Wilson last night in fact, and I liked it very much.
> > > >
> > > > A fluid, moving, noble and intense interpretation of Byrd's fantasie on ut re mi fa sol la, the slowest harpsichord performance on record I know, and I think that Wilson's gamble there paid off. In particular the tempo lets me appreciate the beauty of the dissonant section in the middle.
> > > >
> > > > Wilson's approach is more melodic than contrapuntal, that's to say, he makes the left and right hand music align smoothly, and you don't sense much by way of tensions and collisions between the voices like for example, Richard Egarr and Eliizabeth Farr on harpsichord on the same piece. I suppose it's a case of swings and roundabouts. What you gain in melodiousness and sweetness you lose in complexity and tension.
> > > Comparing Wilson and Moroney in the hexachord fantasia before reading this, I found myself agreeing with Todd - distant and ponderous. But I really like your analysis and will continue to let it simmer. More broadly comparing Moroney, Hogwood, Farr, and Wilson in Byrd, it's really hard to avoid the feeling that Moroney lives and breathes this music on a level far beyond what is expected of EM performers. I keep returning to 'life-affirming' as a description of Byrd's or for example Jenkins' music - tonight I appreciated Spirit of Gambos' Jenkins consort recordings much more than I had in the past. Now I'm listening to the minute-long audio samples of Moroney in works from M.R.N. Couperin's keyboard tablature book, and I'm finding something sort of bleakly depressing about the dances - not quite abstract enough to be thinking/listening-music, but also not quite danceable except in a hopelessly stiff way. After spending a lot of time listening to the dance-based portions of the Ottoman and Persian classical repertoires, I no longer feel like this problem ("rhythmic interpretation of dance-based baroque keyboard music") has been solved in a satisfactory way. And it affects the French composers more than the English of course, but I'm including Byrd's pavan-galliard sets here too.
> > Have you heard the Japanese jazzzer Atsushi Sakai? This sort of thing -- I love it!
> >
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1aW_Z_4e1g
> And re French keyboard music, I’ll kill some time mentioning some performances which caught my imagination
>
> 1. Francois Couperin. Leonhardt (both recordings, they’re quite different from each other) and Asperen - Francois Couperin is only at the top because I listened to his stuff last week.
> 2. Louis Couperin Hogwood, Asperen - the latest recordings, Leonhardt. Glen Wilson for the preludes.
> 3. Forqueray - Koopman. Leonhardt’s last - called something like “the bliss and pain of the baroque.”
> 4. D’Anglebert - Barbara Maria Willi Vol 1 (Vol 2 much less so for some reason.)
> 5. Lully - Brigitte Tramier (Les Songes d’Athis)
> 6. Karen Flint
> 7. Louis Marchand - no one , boring music
> 8. Jacquet de la Guerre - anyone - the music’s so nice it’s unspoilable.
> 9. Duphly - Leonhardt
> 10. Lebêgue - Dunno - I find it quite challenging music actually.
> 11. Rameau - Dunno, can’t think.
> 12. Compilation - Colin Tilney “French Dances” - this one

6 Chambonnières - Karen Flint Don’t know how that got deleted.

Re: Byrd anniversary....

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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: paoloape...@gmail.com (Paolo Pesenti)
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 by: Paolo Pesenti - Wed, 15 Nov 2023 23:33 UTC

On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 1:53:07 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:
> 6 Chambonnières - Karen Flint Don’t know how that got deleted.

Sempé 1992 is my reference for Chambonnières. Wonderful instrument beautifully recorded. The Chaconne in F is an easy highlight

Re: Byrd anniversary....

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Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
From: howie.st...@gmail.com (Mandryka)
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 by: Mandryka - Thu, 16 Nov 2023 13:27 UTC

On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 11:33:49 PM UTC, Paolo Pesenti wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 1:53:07 PM UTC-5, Mandryka wrote:
> > 6 Chambonnières - Karen Flint Don’t know how that got deleted.
> Sempé 1992 is my reference for Chambonnières. Wonderful instrument beautifully recorded. The Chaconne in F is an easy highlight

Yes I agree it's lovely and maybe his best recording for me.

The reason I mentioned Flint is that her survey is much larger, and it revealed to me that there's a lot of excellent music by Chambonnieres which is not on the Sempe CD. These pieces may be in Baumont's set -- I don't know it very well apart from the duets with Claire Antonini - which I love!

Re: Byrd anniversary....

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From: mcc...@medieval.org (Todd M. McComb)
Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.recordings
Subject: Re: Byrd anniversary....
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2023 23:39:30 -0000 (UTC)
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 by: Todd M. McComb - Fri, 8 Dec 2023 23:39 UTC

In article <ugk2dc$eka$1@hope.eyrie.org>,
Todd M. McComb <mccomb@medieval.org> wrote:
>Alamire has released (on "Inventa") a new recording of his _Songs
>of sundrie natures_ (1589). A new reading of the complete _Psalms,
>songs and sonnets_ (1611) seems like a reasonable ask....

I'm still hopeful the latter will appear.

The Byrd year seems to be going out with a whimper, though....
Maybe more will follow.

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