Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
planning the system of fortifications that became known as
the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
was commercialized, now using plastic bags.

I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
established category of home and restaurant appliances.
People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:

https://bestreviews.com/kitchen/tools/best-vacuum-sealers

Did any science fiction writer use home vacuum sealers in
a story before they were available in real life, as Heinlein did
with microwave ovens? I would be interested in hearing from
anyone who has used one.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

peterwezeman@hotmail.com <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> schrieb:

> Did any science fiction writer use home vacuum sealers in
> a story before they were available in real life, as Heinlein did
> with microwave ovens? I would be interested in hearing from
> anyone who has used one.

The first patent for a microwave oven appeared to 1945, if Wikipedia
is to be trusted. Heinlein's "quickthaw" was 1950, I think.

So, a post-diction, not a prediction.

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 3:09:23 PM UTC-5, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> schrieb:
> > Did any science fiction writer use home vacuum sealers in
> > a story before they were available in real life, as Heinlein did
> > with microwave ovens? I would be interested in hearing from
> > anyone who has used one.
> The first patent for a microwave oven appeared to 1945, if Wikipedia
> is to be trusted. Heinlein's "quickthaw" was 1950, I think.
>
> So, a post-diction, not a prediction.

When were the first consumer microwave ovens?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
<peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 3:09:23 PM UTC-5, Thomas Koenig wrote:
>> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> schrieb:
>> > Did any science fiction writer use home vacuum sealers in
>> > a story before they were available in real life, as Heinlein did
>> > with microwave ovens? I would be interested in hearing from
>> > anyone who has used one.
>> The first patent for a microwave oven appeared to 1945, if Wikipedia
>> is to be trusted. Heinlein's "quickthaw" was 1950, I think.
>>
>> So, a post-diction, not a prediction.
>
>When were the first consumer microwave ovens?

That depends on how you define "consumer". A consumer with $5000
could, with the aid of a truck and a crew, take one home in 1947. The
first ones intended for "pick up the box, put it in the car, and drive
home with it" type consumer sales would have been in the late '60s.

On Sunday, 20 March 2022 at 19:59:43 UTC, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
> Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
> planning the system of fortifications that became known as
> the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
> preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
> rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
> pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
> drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
> was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
>
> I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
> home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
> established category of home and restaurant appliances.
> People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
>
> https://bestreviews.com/kitchen/tools/best-vacuum-sealers
>
> Did any science fiction writer use home vacuum sealers in
> a story before they were available in real life, as Heinlein did
> with microwave ovens? I would be interested in hearing from
> anyone who has used one.

I think Heinlein might be the last author whose
characters cooked instead of using a food
synthesiser. Apparently the use case for a vacuum
sealer is saving leftovers more satisfactorily in
some way than by putting a plate of food under
Saran wrap. I don't see that being a sci fi subject.

And on the other hand, there's been home "canning"
for a long time.

It is how astronauts eat, though. Also if your kid
is at college on the Moon - or out of state - you could
make sure they get decent meals by sealing your home
cooking in plastic, and mailing it to them.

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 3:49:51 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
> <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> >When were the first consumer microwave ovens?

> That depends on how you define "consumer". A consumer with $5000
> could, with the aid of a truck and a crew, take one home in 1947. The
> first ones intended for "pick up the box, put it in the car, and drive
> home with it" type consumer sales would have been in the late '60s.

And by an interesting coincidence, the $5,000 one from 1947 was
the Raytheon Radarange, and the first countertop microwave oven
was the Amana Radarange from 1967.

John Savard

Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> schrieb:
> On Sunday, 20 March 2022 at 19:59:43 UTC, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
>> planning the system of fortifications that became known as
>> the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
>> preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
>> rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
>> pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
>> drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
>> was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
>>
>> I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
>> home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
>> established category of home and restaurant appliances.
>> People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
>>
>> https://bestreviews.com/kitchen/tools/best-vacuum-sealers
>>
>> Did any science fiction writer use home vacuum sealers in
>> a story before they were available in real life, as Heinlein did
>> with microwave ovens? I would be interested in hearing from
>> anyone who has used one.
>
> I think Heinlein might be the last author whose
> characters cooked instead of using a food
> synthesiser.

Science fiction other than Star Trek has been written.

To grab a random example, the Hani in the Charnur
cooked (and complained about Tully and Khym(sp?)
doing it for them).

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 11:12:19 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 3:49:51 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> > On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
> > <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >When were the first consumer microwave ovens?
>
> > That depends on how you define "consumer". A consumer with $5000
> > could, with the aid of a truck and a crew, take one home in 1947. The
> > first ones intended for "pick up the box, put it in the car, and drive
> > home with it" type consumer sales would have been in the late '60s.
> And by an interesting coincidence, the $5,000 one from 1947 was
> the Raytheon Radarange, and the first countertop microwave oven
> was the Amana Radarange from 1967.

Its a coincidence that Raytheon licensed them use of the patents and
name?

pt

Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> writes:
>On Sunday, 20 March 2022 at 19:59:43 UTC, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
>> Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
>> planning the system of fortifications that became known as
>> the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
>> preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
>> rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
>> pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
>> drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
>> was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
>>
>> I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
>> home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
>> established category of home and restaurant appliances.
>> People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
>>
>> https://bestreviews.com/kitchen/tools/best-vacuum-sealers
>>
>> Did any science fiction writer use home vacuum sealers in
>> a story before they were available in real life, as Heinlein did
>> with microwave ovens? I would be interested in hearing from
>> anyone who has used one.
>
>I think Heinlein might be the last author whose
>characters cooked instead of using a food
>synthesiser. Apparently the use case for a vacuum
>sealer is saving leftovers more satisfactorily in
>some way than by putting a plate of food under
>Saran wrap.

I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
slabs of atlantic salmon).

I also create a trailmix[*] and vacuum pack it in small
single serving packs.

[*]-

Raw materials from Trader Joes:

1 pkg unsalted cashews
1 pkg unsalted peanuts
1 pkg unsalted almonds
1/2 pkg chocolate chips
1/2 pkg peanut butter chips
1 pkg dried tart cherries

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 06:47:09 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 11:12:19 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
>> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 3:49:51 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
>> > On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
>> > <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > >When were the first consumer microwave ovens?
>>
>> > That depends on how you define "consumer". A consumer with $5000
>> > could, with the aid of a truck and a crew, take one home in 1947. The
>> > first ones intended for "pick up the box, put it in the car, and drive
>> > home with it" type consumer sales would have been in the late '60s.
>> And by an interesting coincidence, the $5,000 one from 1947 was
>> the Raytheon Radarange, and the first countertop microwave oven
>> was the Amana Radarange from 1967.
>
>Its a coincidence that Raytheon licensed them use of the patents and
>name?

Actually Raytheon bought Amana.

Scott Lurndal wrote:

> I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
> purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
> into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
> which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
> slabs of atlantic salmon).

Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that is still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)

I've seen TV ads for this system, I think as early as the '80, when WTBS transited from local ads to 1-800 phone order. We, as kids, had not been taught the theory of making profit by selling razor blades, but we did wonder how to get more of the plastic bags.

There is a variant of the system for clothes. Larger and sturdier plastic bags you store clothes in, and attach to a vacuum hose. No, it doesn't keep them fresh, the vacuum allows the outside air to compress the bag, in turn compressing the clothes, so they don't take up so much room. When you mentioned trail mix, I was thinking of Chex mix, which sounds like a recipe for crushing the cereal, and pretzel sticks to dust.

--
-Jack

Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> writes:
>Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,=20
>> purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them=20
>> into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,=20
>> which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for=20
>> slabs of atlantic salmon).=20
>
>Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that is=
> still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)

Freeze raw. Thaw, then cook. My microwave has a defrost function,
select "fish, meat or sauce" then enter the weight. Works perfectly.
Then, season and grill.

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-4, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> > I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
> > purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
> > into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
> > which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
> > slabs of atlantic salmon).
> Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that is still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)

They're STILL FROZEN from the original CostCo purchase at the time he repackages them and
returns them to the freezer.

Ross Presser <rpresser@gmail.com> writes:
>On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-4, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>> > I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
>> > purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
>> > into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
>> > which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
>> > slabs of atlantic salmon).
>> Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that is still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)
>
>They're STILL FROZEN from the original CostCo purchase at the time he repackages them and
>returns them to the freezer.

No, for both fish and pork I buy fresh and freeze immediately (after slicing
the slab of salmon into 2.5-3 ounce chunks). Costco does sell vacuum-packed frozen
salmon, but each piece is between 6 and 8 ounces, too much for a single meal.

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 12:50:39 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Ross Presser <rpre...@gmail.com> writes:
> >On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 11:28:58 AM UTC-4, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>
> >> > I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
> >> > purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
> >> > into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
> >> > which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
> >> > slabs of atlantic salmon).
> >> Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that is still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)
> >
> >They're STILL FROZEN from the original CostCo purchase at the time he repackages them and
> >returns them to the freezer.
>
> No, for both fish and pork I buy fresh and freeze immediately (after slicing
> the slab of salmon into 2.5-3 ounce chunks). Costco does sell vacuum-packed frozen
> salmon, but each piece is between 6 and 8 ounces, too much for a single meal.

Yeah, I reread what you said and tried to delete my incorrect posting. Too late. Sorry.

Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> on Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:18:41
-0000 (UTC) typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> schrieb:
>> On Sunday, 20 March 2022 at 19:59:43 UTC, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
>>> Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
>>> planning the system of fortifications that became known as
>>> the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
>>> preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
>>> rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
>>> pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
>>> drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
>>> was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
>>>
>>> I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
>>> home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
>>> established category of home and restaurant appliances.
>>> People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
>>>
>>> https://bestreviews.com/kitchen/tools/best-vacuum-sealers
>>>
>>> Did any science fiction writer use home vacuum sealers in
>>> a story before they were available in real life, as Heinlein did
>>> with microwave ovens? I would be interested in hearing from
>>> anyone who has used one.
>>
>> I think Heinlein might be the last author whose
>> characters cooked instead of using a food
>> synthesiser.
>
>Science fiction other than Star Trek has been written.
>
>To grab a random example, the Hani in the Charnur
>cooked (and complained about Tully and Khym(sp?)
>doing it for them).

What do you expect when you let males "fix" food?
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 15:30:23 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<phamp@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Thomas Koenig <tkoenig@netcologne.de> on Mon, 21 Mar 2022 11:18:41
>-0000 (UTC) typed in rec.arts.sf.written the following:
>>Robert Carnegie <rja.carnegie@excite.com> schrieb:
>>> On Sunday, 20 March 2022 at 19:59:43 UTC, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:
>>>> Between World War 1 and World War 2, when the French were
>>>> planning the system of fortifications that became known as
>>>> the Maginot Line, they developed a new method of food
>>>> preservation for use in the forts. Meat was placed in special
>>>> rubber bags, the air was removed from the bags by a vacuum
>>>> pump, the bag was sealed, and it was frozen. This prevented
>>>> drying and "freezer burn". At least fifty years ago this process
>>>> was commercialized, now using plastic bags.
>>>>
>>>> I recently saw a product review for a "vacuum sealer" for
>>>> home use. A brief web search showed that this was an
>>>> established category of home and restaurant appliances.
>>>> People either freeze or refrigerate the sealed food:
>>>>
>>>> https://bestreviews.com/kitchen/tools/best-vacuum-sealers
>>>>
>>>> Did any science fiction writer use home vacuum sealers in
>>>> a story before they were available in real life, as Heinlein did
>>>> with microwave ovens? I would be interested in hearing from
>>>> anyone who has used one.
>>>
>>> I think Heinlein might be the last author whose
>>> characters cooked instead of using a food
>>> synthesiser.
>>
>>Science fiction other than Star Trek has been written.
>>
>>To grab a random example, the Hani in the Charnur
>>cooked (and complained about Tully and Khym(sp?)
>>doing it for them).
>
> What do you expect when you let males "fix" food?

There was a chef in Futurama.

For something very recent there's
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBGZaZmqs74>
>--
>pyotr filipivich
>This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
>Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
> Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 10:12:19 PM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Sunday, March 20, 2022 at 3:49:51 PM UTC-6, J. Clarke wrote:
> > On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 14:15:51 -0700 (PDT), "peterw...@hotmail.com"
> > <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >When were the first consumer microwave ovens?
>
> > That depends on how you define "consumer". A consumer with $5000
> > could, with the aid of a truck and a crew, take one home in 1947. The
> > first ones intended for "pick up the box, put it in the car, and drive
> > home with it" type consumer sales would have been in the late '60s.
> And by an interesting coincidence, the $5,000 one from 1947 was
> the Raytheon Radarange, and the first countertop microwave oven
> was the Amana Radarange from 1967.
>
A home Radarange was mentioned in Arthur Clarke's 1953 novel _Childhood's End_.
The context was to show that the New Athens artistic colony that George and Jean
Greggson are joining was technically modern. In internal chronology this occurs
after 2025.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:28:58 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
> > I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
> > purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
> > into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
> > which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
> > slabs of atlantic salmon).
> Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that is still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)
>
As long as the food stays frozen anaerobic bacteria will not grow. For what it's worth, commercial canners of meat,
fish, soup, and other foods that provide a growth media for botulism rely on painstaking attention to detail and statistical
testing to ensure a safe product. This isn't really practical for people making small batches, so home canners will instead
routinely pressure cook such foods before serving at temperatures sufficient to destroy any botulinus toxin that may
be present.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

peterwezeman@hotmail.com <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> schrieb:
> On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:28:58 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
>> Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>
>> > I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
>> > purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
>> > into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
>> > which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
>> > slabs of atlantic salmon).
>> Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that is still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)
>>
> As long as the food stays frozen anaerobic bacteria will not grow.

At normal freezing temperatures (-18°C, around 0°F), food is
only partially frozen. As ice crystals form, the concentration
of impurities such as salt, sugar and other substances increases,
depreesing the melting point until an equilibrium has been reached.

While the growth of anaerobic bacteria is greatly slowed, it is
not quite zero. Partially unfreezing and refreezing the food
makes the bacteria grow much faster.

On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
<jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:

>Scott Lurndal wrote:
>
>> I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,=20
>> purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them=20
>> into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,=20
>> which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for=20
>> slabs of atlantic salmon).=20

We have one of those vacuum sealers and my wife uses it pretty much
the same way. She'll buy large packages of things (ground hamburger
comes to mind) and then split them up into amounts suitable for
individual meals, seal them up and stick them in the freezer. She
uses the sealer so much that she wore out our first one and asked me
to get a new one for Christmas a couple years ago.

>There is a variant of the system for clothes. Larger and sturdier plastic =
>bags you store clothes in, and attach to a vacuum hose. No, it doesn't kee=
>p them fresh, the vacuum allows the outside air to compress the bag, in tur=
>n compressing the clothes, so they don't take up so much room.

My wife's a big fan of those too. She'll squash the summer clothes
into big plastic bricks that fit under the bed for winter storage, and
vice versa with winter clothes in the summer.

-- Bob

On Tuesday, March 22, 2022 at 7:32:06 AM UTC-4, Thomas Koenig wrote:
> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> schrieb:
> > On Monday, March 21, 2022 at 10:28:58 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> >> Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>
> >> > I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,
> >> > purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them
> >> > into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,
> >> > which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for
> >> > slabs of atlantic salmon).

I was able to get a ride to the grocer's yesterday morning . I divided 5 lbs
of ground beef into 1 lb-ish bags and put 3 of them in the freezer. I had
broiled burgers for last night's dinner. [...on toasted buns with cold pack
cheese spread, pickle, tomato and lettuce.] I always try to squeeze out as
much air as I can before closing the bag's seal, if only to save space†. I
share the freezer portion of the apartment's refrigerator with 2 housemates,
so I can't go too crazy with freezing food. When only 2 of us lived here, or
one of the bedrooms was occupied by someone who didn't buy frozen food
nor even cook much, I'd freeze broths or soups I made, sometimes in one-
portion-sized bags. Some of the ex-roommates lived on take-out or delivered
restaurant meals. I try not to do that, except when Uber Eats ends me a
promo code that makes sense to use.

I'm marinating some chicken legs in one bag, and pork chops in another.
After I cook those, uneaten portions will be divided into bags for the fridge
and freezer. I really only cook for myself, and divvying up food that way
helps me rotate entres. I also have salmon and tilapia fillets in the freezer,
and a small (over 2 lbs) vacuum packed bottom round beef roast in the fridge.
I'll marinate that a day before I roast it, then freeze some of it. Then there's
my stash of frozen pizza dough. I made a nice pepperoni & anchovy pie over
the weekend.

†...I could have used the ground beef in a taco or burrito; in tomato sauce over
pasta; in a cottage pie, as I just bought a bag of potatoes; in a sloppy joe, etc.

> >> Do you cook them? Does the freezing prevent the anaerobic activity that
> >>is still a problem even with canning? (e.g. botulism)
> >>
> > As long as the food stays frozen anaerobic bacteria will not grow.
> At normal freezing temperatures (-18°C, around 0°F), food is
> only partially frozen. As ice crystals form, the concentration
> of impurities such as salt, sugar and other substances increases,
> depreesing the melting point until an equilibrium has been reached.
>
> While the growth of anaerobic bacteria is greatly slowed, it is
> not quite zero. Partially unfreezing and refreezing the food
> makes the bacteria grow much faster.

This last is why portioning out the amount you normally cook
into separate bags makes sense. You don't have to defrost and
refreeze what you won't be cooking. Smaller portions defrost faster,
AOTB=, also.

--
Kevin R

On Tuesday, 22 March 2022 at 13:06:40 UTC, Bice wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
> <jack....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >
> >> I've _never_ vacuum packed leftovers. I have, however,=20
> >> purchased bulk items from CostCo and vacuum packed them=20
> >> into smaller portions (e.g. a tray of fresh pork loin chops,=20
> >> which I individually vacuum pack and freeze; likewise for=20
> >> slabs of atlantic salmon).=20
> We have one of those vacuum sealers and my wife uses it pretty much
> the same way. She'll buy large packages of things (ground hamburger
> comes to mind) and then split them up into amounts suitable for
> individual meals, seal them up and stick them in the freezer. She
> uses the sealer so much that she wore out our first one and asked me
> to get a new one for Christmas a couple years ago.

Okay: I was relying on the link
<https://bestreviews.com/kitchen/tools/best-vacuum-sealers>
for "/why/ are you doing this to food", and it says
leftovers, at length. Much much later, I now find, it gets to
"cooking and sealing several meals Sunday evening so you’ll have
a week’s worth of meals in the freezer", but... you can buy the meals...
Using it to freeze future meal ingredients is proposed under "Tips".

All this is after the article introduces their chef - who is
a businessman and not your ordinary household chef -
so I don't know quite what he's contributing to an article
about home, uh, bagging of food, except to remind us
that just putting food in a plastic bag does about zero
to extend its going-off date. But if he carries out
vacuum preserving, I guess it's probably for time shifting
of when food is consumed. Or conceivably... would
a restaurant vacuum-bag what a customer left on their
plate so the customer can take it home? I haven't asked.
Now I have.

> >There is a variant of the system for clothes. Larger and sturdier plastic =
> >bags you store clothes in, and attach to a vacuum hose. No, it doesn't kee=
> >p them fresh, the vacuum allows the outside air to compress the bag, in tur> >n compressing the clothes, so they don't take up so much room.
> My wife's a big fan of those too. She'll squash the summer clothes
> into big plastic bricks that fit under the bed for winter storage, and
> vice versa with winter clothes in the summer.

Does this compress clothes better than loading them
in a suitcase? But I suppose you expect to use your
suitcases... and this ought to keep bugs out. Unless
the bugs are in. And depending how close you get
to a literal vacuum.

On 23/03/22 02:06, Bice wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
> <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
snip
>
>> There is a variant of the system for clothes. Larger and sturdier plastic =
>> bags you store clothes in, and attach to a vacuum hose. No, it doesn't kee=
>> p them fresh, the vacuum allows the outside air to compress the bag, in tur=
>> n compressing the clothes, so they don't take up so much room.
>

I had never heard of this and suspect you either have too many clothes,
insufficient wardrobe space or you live in a tent?

> My wife's a big fan of those too. She'll squash the summer clothes
> into big plastic bricks that fit under the bed for winter storage, and
> vice versa with winter clothes in the summer.

I guess that in autumn or fall you either wear two lots of summer
clothes or perhaps half the normal winter wear and that in spring you
are naked?

In article <t1e6j0$ba1$1@dont-email.me>, Titus G <noone@nowhere.com> wrote:
>On 23/03/22 02:06, Bice wrote:
>> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 08:28:55 -0700 (PDT), Jack Bohn
>> <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>snip
>>
>>> There is a variant of the system for clothes. Larger and sturdier plastic =
>>> bags you store clothes in, and attach to a vacuum hose. No, it doesn't kee=
>>> p them fresh, the vacuum allows the outside air to compress the bag, in tur=
>>> n compressing the clothes, so they don't take up so much room.
>>
>
>I had never heard of this and suspect you either have too many clothes,
>insufficient wardrobe space or you live in a tent?
>
>> My wife's a big fan of those too. She'll squash the summer clothes
>> into big plastic bricks that fit under the bed for winter storage, and
>> vice versa with winter clothes in the summer.
>
>I guess that in autumn or fall you either wear two lots of summer
>clothes or perhaps half the normal winter wear and that in spring you
>are naked?

I wear my pink pajamas, in the summer when it's hot.
I wear my flannel nighties in the winter when it's not.
And sometimes in the springtime and sometimes in the fall,
I jump right in between the sheets with nothing on at all.
Chorus:
Glory, glory, Hallelujah;
Glory, glory, What's it to you?
Balmy breezes blowing through ya,
With nothing on at all.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..