On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 2:41:37 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a provocation. Two, it is
> a deadly threat.

Generally speaking, nuclear submarines are effective in their role
when nobody else knows where they are. Thus, there was considerable
dismay when Toshiba sold Russia advanced milling machines, so that
the U.S. could not hear Russian submarines any longer by the noise their
propellers made.

To get close to Moscow, I would have thought U.S. nuclear submarines
would frequent, say, the Baltic Sea, rather than the Mediterranean, although
there is certainly an important role in the Mediterranean for a number of
other kinds of U.S. naval vessel.

Of course, the other reply to your post is a more knowledgeable one.

John Savard

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 11/8/2022 3:48 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 10/29/2022 11:40 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>> I was reading an article that claimed that there was a good chance
>>>> that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually inoperative due to
>>>> Russia's economic woes and war in Ukraine.
>>>>
>>>> The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and costs a lot of
>>>> money to make.
>>>>
>>>> Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used deuterium and
>>>> tritium and needed regular topping-up. Modern hydrogen bombs use
>>>> lithium-6 deuteride, and lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
>>>>
>>>> So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his conclusions, he
>>>> neglected to check his facts even to the extent of peeking at Wikipedia.
>>>>
>>>> John Savard
>>>
>>> “”Give Kremlin A Warning”: US ‘Nuclear Apocalypse’ Submarine Enters
>>> Mediterranean Sea”
>>>
>>> https://www.zerohedge.com/military/give-kremlin-warning-us-nuclear-apocalypse-submarine-enters-mediterranean-sea
>>>
>>> “Multiple reports show the world’s largest nuclear submarine, the USS
>>> Rhode Island, left the Port of Gibraltar on Spain’s south coast last
>>> week and was last seen entering the Mediterranean. British newspaper
>>> Daily Express said the nuclear submarine is “reportedly heading towards
>>> the Black Sea.””
>>>
>>> My goodness, she is a big girl. Not much hot bunking on her. One of my
>>> son’s friends slept on top of a torpedo for all of his deployments, he
>>> strictly had 8 hours, two other guys shared the bed.
>>>
>>> I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a provocation. Two, it is
>>> a deadly threat.
>>>
>>
>> I'm of the mind that Zero Hedge is not worth the pixels it paints.
>>
>> The Ohio class boats are four decades old now and the Rhode Island
>> is on a scheduled port visit to Gibralter.
>>
>> The "Daily Press" is a british tabloid.
>>
>> It's highly unlikely that a boomer would enter the med, where it
>> would be unable to run silent and run deep.
>
>Isn't the Med mostly 3,000 to 5,000 feet deep and up to to 17,000 feet
>deep ? I suspect that they could run silent and deep there.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea

There is only one way out, discounting the canal and the Posidon range is
over 2500 miles. Why bottle up a valuable asset in an area where there is
only one escape route?

The Georgia, an Ohio-class converted to conventional missiles is in the
Med, but it really doesn't make sense to put a posidon equipped sub in
the med.

On 11/8/2022 5:59 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 11/8/2022 3:48 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On 10/29/2022 11:40 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>> I was reading an article that claimed that there was a good chance
>>>>> that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually inoperative due to
>>>>> Russia's economic woes and war in Ukraine.
>>>>>
>>>>> The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and costs a lot of
>>>>> money to make.
>>>>>
>>>>> Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used deuterium and
>>>>> tritium and needed regular topping-up. Modern hydrogen bombs use
>>>>> lithium-6 deuteride, and lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
>>>>>
>>>>> So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his conclusions, he
>>>>> neglected to check his facts even to the extent of peeking at Wikipedia.
>>>>>
>>>>> John Savard
>>>>
>>>> “”Give Kremlin A Warning”: US ‘Nuclear Apocalypse’ Submarine Enters
>>>> Mediterranean Sea”
>>>>
>>>> https://www.zerohedge.com/military/give-kremlin-warning-us-nuclear-apocalypse-submarine-enters-mediterranean-sea
>>>>
>>>> “Multiple reports show the world’s largest nuclear submarine, the USS
>>>> Rhode Island, left the Port of Gibraltar on Spain’s south coast last
>>>> week and was last seen entering the Mediterranean. British newspaper
>>>> Daily Express said the nuclear submarine is “reportedly heading towards
>>>> the Black Sea.””
>>>>
>>>> My goodness, she is a big girl. Not much hot bunking on her. One of my
>>>> son’s friends slept on top of a torpedo for all of his deployments, he
>>>> strictly had 8 hours, two other guys shared the bed.
>>>>
>>>> I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a provocation. Two, it is
>>>> a deadly threat.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I'm of the mind that Zero Hedge is not worth the pixels it paints.
>>>
>>> The Ohio class boats are four decades old now and the Rhode Island
>>> is on a scheduled port visit to Gibralter.
>>>
>>> The "Daily Press" is a british tabloid.
>>>
>>> It's highly unlikely that a boomer would enter the med, where it
>>> would be unable to run silent and run deep.
>>
>> Isn't the Med mostly 3,000 to 5,000 feet deep and up to to 17,000 feet
>> deep ? I suspect that they could run silent and deep there.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea
>
> There is only one way out, discounting the canal and the Posidon range is
> over 2500 miles. Why bottle up a valuable asset in an area where there is
> only one escape route?
>
> The Georgia, an Ohio-class converted to conventional missiles is in the
> Med, but it really doesn't make sense to put a posidon equipped sub in
> the med.

Wait, you are asking me to explain how the USA Commander in Chief, Joe
Biden, thinks ?

And there are two escape routes from the Med. The Straits of Gibraltar
and the Suez Canal. Israel routinely sends one or two of their
Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear weapons, down the Suez
Canal. And no, they do not pay the canal tax. I would bet that the USA
does not pay the canal tax either.
https://dod.defense.gov/OIR/gallery/igphoto/2001237565/

Lynn

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 5:14:39 PM UTC-5, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 2:41:37 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
> > I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a provocation. Two, it is
> > a deadly threat.
> Generally speaking, nuclear submarines are effective in their role
> when nobody else knows where they are. Thus, there was considerable
> dismay when Toshiba sold Russia advanced milling machines, so that
> the U.S. could not hear Russian submarines any longer by the noise their
> propellers made.
>
> To get close to Moscow, I would have thought U.S. nuclear submarines
> would frequent, say, the Baltic Sea, rather than the Mediterranean, although
> there is certainly an important role in the Mediterranean for a number of
> other kinds of U.S. naval vessel.
>
> Of course, the other reply to your post is a more knowledgeable one.

* The Baltic is far shallower than the Med: 55m vs 1500m on average.
* Ohio class subs are rated to 240m.

So it's far harder to hide in the Baltic.

Pt

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 6:59:42 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >On 11/8/2022 3:48 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>> On 10/29/2022 11:40 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
> >>>> I was reading an article that claimed that there was a good chance
> >>>> that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually inoperative due to
> >>>> Russia's economic woes and war in Ukraine.
> >>>>
> >>>> The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and costs a lot of
> >>>> money to make.
> >>>>
> >>>> Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used deuterium and
> >>>> tritium and needed regular topping-up. Modern hydrogen bombs use
> >>>> lithium-6 deuteride, and lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
> >>>>
> >>>> So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his conclusions, he
> >>>> neglected to check his facts even to the extent of peeking at Wikipedia.
> >>>>
> >>>> John Savard
> >>>
> >>> “”Give Kremlin A Warning”: US ‘Nuclear Apocalypse’ Submarine Enters
> >>> Mediterranean Sea”
> >>>
> >>> https://www.zerohedge.com/military/give-kremlin-warning-us-nuclear-apocalypse-submarine-enters-mediterranean-sea
> >>>
> >>> “Multiple reports show the world’s largest nuclear submarine, the USS
> >>> Rhode Island, left the Port of Gibraltar on Spain’s south coast last
> >>> week and was last seen entering the Mediterranean. British newspaper
> >>> Daily Express said the nuclear submarine is “reportedly heading towards
> >>> the Black Sea.””
> >>>
> >>> My goodness, she is a big girl. Not much hot bunking on her. One of my
> >>> son’s friends slept on top of a torpedo for all of his deployments, he
> >>> strictly had 8 hours, two other guys shared the bed.
> >>>
> >>> I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a provocation. Two, it is
> >>> a deadly threat.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I'm of the mind that Zero Hedge is not worth the pixels it paints.
> >>
> >> The Ohio class boats are four decades old now and the Rhode Island
> >> is on a scheduled port visit to Gibralter.
> >>
> >> The "Daily Press" is a british tabloid.
> >>
> >> It's highly unlikely that a boomer would enter the med, where it
> >> would be unable to run silent and run deep.
> >
> >Isn't the Med mostly 3,000 to 5,000 feet deep and up to to 17,000 feet
> >deep ? I suspect that they could run silent and deep there.
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea
> There is only one way out, discounting the canal and the Posidon range is
> over 2500 miles. Why bottle up a valuable asset in an area where there is
> only one escape route?
>
> The Georgia, an Ohio-class converted to conventional missiles is in the
> Med, but it really doesn't make sense to put a posidon equipped sub in
> the med.

Agreed. Ohio class carries Trident IIs, not Poseidons. Range 4600 miles. They could
hit Moscow from NYC, or the Bering Straits.

Pt

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:37:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 11/8/2022 5:59 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> > Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >> On 11/8/2022 3:48 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>> On 10/29/2022 11:40 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
> >>>>> I was reading an article that claimed that there was a good chance
> >>>>> that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually inoperative due to
> >>>>> Russia's economic woes and war in Ukraine.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and costs a lot of
> >>>>> money to make.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used deuterium and
> >>>>> tritium and needed regular topping-up. Modern hydrogen bombs use
> >>>>> lithium-6 deuteride, and lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his conclusions, he
> >>>>> neglected to check his facts even to the extent of peeking at Wikipedia.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John Savard
> >>>>
> >>>> “”Give Kremlin A Warning”: US ‘Nuclear Apocalypse’ Submarine Enters
> >>>> Mediterranean Sea”
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.zerohedge.com/military/give-kremlin-warning-us-nuclear-apocalypse-submarine-enters-mediterranean-sea
> >>>>
> >>>> “Multiple reports show the world’s largest nuclear submarine, the USS
> >>>> Rhode Island, left the Port of Gibraltar on Spain’s south coast last
> >>>> week and was last seen entering the Mediterranean. British newspaper
> >>>> Daily Express said the nuclear submarine is “reportedly heading towards
> >>>> the Black Sea.””
> >>>>
> >>>> My goodness, she is a big girl. Not much hot bunking on her. One of my
> >>>> son’s friends slept on top of a torpedo for all of his deployments, he
> >>>> strictly had 8 hours, two other guys shared the bed.
> >>>>
> >>>> I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a provocation. Two, it is
> >>>> a deadly threat.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> I'm of the mind that Zero Hedge is not worth the pixels it paints.
> >>>
> >>> The Ohio class boats are four decades old now and the Rhode Island
> >>> is on a scheduled port visit to Gibralter.
> >>>
> >>> The "Daily Press" is a british tabloid.
> >>>
> >>> It's highly unlikely that a boomer would enter the med, where it
> >>> would be unable to run silent and run deep.
> >>
> >> Isn't the Med mostly 3,000 to 5,000 feet deep and up to to 17,000 feet
> >> deep ? I suspect that they could run silent and deep there.
> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea
> >
> > There is only one way out, discounting the canal and the Posidon range is
> > over 2500 miles. Why bottle up a valuable asset in an area where there is
> > only one escape route?
> >
> > The Georgia, an Ohio-class converted to conventional missiles is in the
> > Med, but it really doesn't make sense to put a posidon equipped sub in
> > the med.
> Wait, you are asking me to explain how the USA Commander in Chief, Joe
> Biden, thinks ?
>
> And there are two escape routes from the Med. The Straits of Gibraltar
> and the Suez Canal. Israel routinely sends one or two of their
> Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear weapons, down the Suez
> Canal. And no, they do not pay the canal tax. I would bet that the USA
> does not pay the canal tax either.
> https://dod.defense.gov/OIR/gallery/igphoto/2001237565/

Suez max draft is 20.1m. Dolphin class is only 6.2m. Probably at least double
that when submerged. It's barely plausible that it could sail the canal submerged,
but I'd expect any periscope to to noticed quickly. It doesn't actually need to, the
Egypt-Israeli peace treaty allows Israeli warships to use the canal.

Ohio class has a draft of 10.8 m, and I doubt one could submerge in the canal.

Pt

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 9:41:37 PM UTC, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> On 10/29/2022 11:40 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
> > I was reading an article that claimed that there was a good chance
> > that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually inoperative due to
> > Russia's economic woes and war in Ukraine.
> >
> > The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and costs a lot of
> > money to make.
> >
> > Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used deuterium and
> > tritium and needed regular topping-up. Modern hydrogen bombs use
> > lithium-6 deuteride, and lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
> >
> > So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his conclusions, he
> > neglected to check his facts even to the extent of peeking at Wikipedia..
> >
> > John Savard
>
> “”Give Kremlin A Warning”: US ‘Nuclear Apocalypse’ Submarine Enters
> Mediterranean Sea”
>
> https://www.zerohedge.com/military/give-kremlin-warning-us-nuclear-apocalypse-submarine-enters-mediterranean-sea
>
> “Multiple reports show the world’s largest nuclear submarine, the USS
> Rhode Island, left the Port of Gibraltar on Spain’s south coast last
> week and was last seen entering the Mediterranean. British newspaper
> Daily Express said the nuclear submarine is “reportedly heading towards
> the Black Sea.””
>
> My goodness, she is a big girl. Not much hot bunking on her. One of my
> son’s friends slept on top of a torpedo for all of his deployments, he
> strictly had 8 hours, two other guys shared the bed.
>
> I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a provocation. Two, it is
> a deadly threat.
>
> Lynn
It is being reported here as a reminder to Russia that, even though they don't see them most of the time, the US does have boomers for strategic second strike, and therefore a surprise Russian nuclear attack cannot evade a response.

On 11/8/2022 9:51 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 6:59:42 PM UTC-5, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
>>> On 11/8/2022 3:48 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 10/29/2022 11:40 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>>> I was reading an article that claimed that there was a good chance
>>>>>> that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually inoperative due to
>>>>>> Russia's economic woes and war in Ukraine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and costs a lot of
>>>>>> money to make.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used deuterium and
>>>>>> tritium and needed regular topping-up. Modern hydrogen bombs use
>>>>>> lithium-6 deuteride, and lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his conclusions, he
>>>>>> neglected to check his facts even to the extent of peeking at Wikipedia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> John Savard
>>>>>
>>>>> “”Give Kremlin A Warning”: US ‘Nuclear Apocalypse’ Submarine Enters
>>>>> Mediterranean Sea”
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.zerohedge.com/military/give-kremlin-warning-us-nuclear-apocalypse-submarine-enters-mediterranean-sea
>>>>>
>>>>> “Multiple reports show the world’s largest nuclear submarine, the USS
>>>>> Rhode Island, left the Port of Gibraltar on Spain’s south coast last
>>>>> week and was last seen entering the Mediterranean. British newspaper
>>>>> Daily Express said the nuclear submarine is “reportedly heading towards
>>>>> the Black Sea.””
>>>>>
>>>>> My goodness, she is a big girl. Not much hot bunking on her. One of my
>>>>> son’s friends slept on top of a torpedo for all of his deployments, he
>>>>> strictly had 8 hours, two other guys shared the bed.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a provocation. Two, it is
>>>>> a deadly threat.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm of the mind that Zero Hedge is not worth the pixels it paints.
>>>>
>>>> The Ohio class boats are four decades old now and the Rhode Island
>>>> is on a scheduled port visit to Gibralter.
>>>>
>>>> The "Daily Press" is a british tabloid.
>>>>
>>>> It's highly unlikely that a boomer would enter the med, where it
>>>> would be unable to run silent and run deep.
>>>
>>> Isn't the Med mostly 3,000 to 5,000 feet deep and up to to 17,000 feet
>>> deep ? I suspect that they could run silent and deep there.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea
>> There is only one way out, discounting the canal and the Posidon range is
>> over 2500 miles. Why bottle up a valuable asset in an area where there is
>> only one escape route?
>>
>> The Georgia, an Ohio-class converted to conventional missiles is in the
>> Med, but it really doesn't make sense to put a posidon equipped sub in
>> the med.
>
> Agreed. Ohio class carries Trident IIs, not Poseidons. Range 4600 miles. They could
> hit Moscow from NYC, or the Bering Straits.
>
> Pt

The Med is 7 minutes away from Moscow for a nuclear missile.

Lynn

On 11/8/2022 10:06 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:37:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> On 11/8/2022 5:59 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>> On 11/8/2022 3:48 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On 10/29/2022 11:40 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>>>> I was reading an article that claimed that there was a good chance
>>>>>>> that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually inoperative due to
>>>>>>> Russia's economic woes and war in Ukraine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and costs a lot of
>>>>>>> money to make.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used deuterium and
>>>>>>> tritium and needed regular topping-up. Modern hydrogen bombs use
>>>>>>> lithium-6 deuteride, and lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his conclusions, he
>>>>>>> neglected to check his facts even to the extent of peeking at Wikipedia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John Savard
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “”Give Kremlin A Warning”: US ‘Nuclear Apocalypse’ Submarine Enters
>>>>>> Mediterranean Sea”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.zerohedge.com/military/give-kremlin-warning-us-nuclear-apocalypse-submarine-enters-mediterranean-sea
>>>>>>
>>>>>> “Multiple reports show the world’s largest nuclear submarine, the USS
>>>>>> Rhode Island, left the Port of Gibraltar on Spain’s south coast last
>>>>>> week and was last seen entering the Mediterranean. British newspaper
>>>>>> Daily Express said the nuclear submarine is “reportedly heading towards
>>>>>> the Black Sea.””
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My goodness, she is a big girl. Not much hot bunking on her. One of my
>>>>>> son’s friends slept on top of a torpedo for all of his deployments, he
>>>>>> strictly had 8 hours, two other guys shared the bed.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a provocation. Two, it is
>>>>>> a deadly threat.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm of the mind that Zero Hedge is not worth the pixels it paints.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Ohio class boats are four decades old now and the Rhode Island
>>>>> is on a scheduled port visit to Gibralter.
>>>>>
>>>>> The "Daily Press" is a british tabloid.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's highly unlikely that a boomer would enter the med, where it
>>>>> would be unable to run silent and run deep.
>>>>
>>>> Isn't the Med mostly 3,000 to 5,000 feet deep and up to to 17,000 feet
>>>> deep ? I suspect that they could run silent and deep there.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea
>>>
>>> There is only one way out, discounting the canal and the Posidon range is
>>> over 2500 miles. Why bottle up a valuable asset in an area where there is
>>> only one escape route?
>>>
>>> The Georgia, an Ohio-class converted to conventional missiles is in the
>>> Med, but it really doesn't make sense to put a posidon equipped sub in
>>> the med.
>> Wait, you are asking me to explain how the USA Commander in Chief, Joe
>> Biden, thinks ?
>>
>> And there are two escape routes from the Med. The Straits of Gibraltar
>> and the Suez Canal. Israel routinely sends one or two of their
>> Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear weapons, down the Suez
>> Canal. And no, they do not pay the canal tax. I would bet that the USA
>> does not pay the canal tax either.
>> https://dod.defense.gov/OIR/gallery/igphoto/2001237565/
>
> Suez max draft is 20.1m. Dolphin class is only 6.2m. Probably at least double
> that when submerged. It's barely plausible that it could sail the canal submerged,
> but I'd expect any periscope to to noticed quickly. It doesn't actually need to, the
> Egypt-Israeli peace treaty allows Israeli warships to use the canal.
>
> Ohio class has a draft of 10.8 m, and I doubt one could submerge in the canal.
>
> Pt

"Iranian news portal Nournews, a mouthpiece of the ayatollah regime in
Tehran, reported on Monday that an Israeli Dolphin-class submarine
secretly entered the Red Sea last Wednesday, August 4, through the Suez
Canal."
https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/08/10/671219/

Secret usually means submerged for a sub.

I've seen a picture of three Israeli Dolphins racing in the Suez canal
at over 20 knots to piss off the Egyptians, swamping the banks.

Yup, I doubt that an Ohio class would submerge in the Suez canal. They
usually go where they want to though. Those four forward torpedo tubes
can make you have a bad day.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 11/8/2022 5:59 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

>>>
>>> Isn't the Med mostly 3,000 to 5,000 feet deep and up to to 17,000 feet
>>> deep ? I suspect that they could run silent and deep there.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea
>>
>> There is only one way out, discounting the canal and the Posidon range is
>> over 2500 miles. Why bottle up a valuable asset in an area where there is
>> only one escape route?
>>
>> The Georgia, an Ohio-class converted to conventional missiles is in the
>> Med, but it really doesn't make sense to put a posidon equipped sub in
>> the med.
>
>Wait, you are asking me to explain how the USA Commander in Chief, Joe
>Biden, thinks ?

If you can't have an intelligent conversation, plonk.

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 11:06:27 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:37:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> >
> > And there are two escape routes from the Med. The Straits of Gibraltar
> > and the Suez Canal. Israel routinely sends one or two of their
> > Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear weapons, down the Suez
> > Canal. And no, they do not pay the canal tax. I would bet that the USA
> > does not pay the canal tax either.
> > https://dod.defense.gov/OIR/gallery/igphoto/2001237565/

> Suez max draft is 20.1m. Dolphin class is only 6.2m. Probably at least double
> that when submerged. It's barely plausible that it could sail the canal submerged,
> but I'd expect any periscope to to noticed quickly. It doesn't actually need to, the
> Egypt-Israeli peace treaty allows Israeli warships to use the canal.

The Suez is the one that got blocked by a container ship a few years back? I remember a side story about long wait times just queueing up to enter.

Looks like a Dolphin class is diesel-electric, there's only so long it can stay submerged. It probably wants to go slow, just supplying the "hotel loads," pushing aside that water takes a lot of energy.
It probably doesn't have to surface for diesel. The Ohio class has a snorkel about as high as the periscope at the back of the sail, and bubbles the exhaust smoke out the top aft of the sail (when submerged, on the surface they don't have to deal with back pressure on the exhaust and get a little more power). Less noticeable than surfacing, but, as you say, still noticeable.

--
-Jack

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
news:tkff70$5h4h$2@dont-email.me:

> On 11/8/2022 10:06 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:37:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire
>> wrote:
>>> On 11/8/2022 5:59 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>> On 11/8/2022 3:48 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>> On 10/29/2022 11:40 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>>>>> I was reading an article that claimed that there was a
>>>>>>>> good chance that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually
>>>>>>>> inoperative due to Russia's economic woes and war in
>>>>>>>> Ukraine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and
>>>>>>>> costs a lot of money to make.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used
>>>>>>>> deuterium and tritium and needed regular topping-up.
>>>>>>>> Modern hydrogen bombs use lithium-6 deuteride, and
>>>>>>>> lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his
>>>>>>>> conclusions, he neglected to check his facts even to the
>>>>>>>> extent of peeking at Wikipedia.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John Savard
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “”Give Kremlin A Warning”: US ‘Nuclear
>>>>>>> Apocalypse’ Submarine Enters Mediterranean Sea”
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.zerohedge.com/military/give-kremlin-warning-us-
>>>>>>> nuclear-apocalypse-submarine-enters-mediterranean-sea
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “Multiple reports show the world’s largest nuclear
>>>>>>> submarine, the USS Rhode Island, left the Port of
>>>>>>> Gibraltar on Spain’s south coast last week and was last
>>>>>>> seen entering the Mediterranean. British newspaper
>>>>>>> Daily Express said the nuclear submarine is “reportedly
>>>>>>> heading towards the Black Sea.””
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My goodness, she is a big girl. Not much hot bunking on
>>>>>>> her. One of my son’s friends slept on top of a torpedo
>>>>>>> for all of his deployments, he strictly had 8 hours, two
>>>>>>> other guys shared the bed.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a
>>>>>>> provocation. Two, it is a deadly threat.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm of the mind that Zero Hedge is not worth the pixels it
>>>>>> paints.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Ohio class boats are four decades old now and the Rhode
>>>>>> Island is on a scheduled port visit to Gibralter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The "Daily Press" is a british tabloid.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's highly unlikely that a boomer would enter the med,
>>>>>> where it would be unable to run silent and run deep.
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't the Med mostly 3,000 to 5,000 feet deep and up to to
>>>>> 17,000 feet deep ? I suspect that they could run silent and
>>>>> deep there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea
>>>>
>>>> There is only one way out, discounting the canal and the
>>>> Posidon range is over 2500 miles. Why bottle up a valuable
>>>> asset in an area where there is only one escape route?
>>>>
>>>> The Georgia, an Ohio-class converted to conventional missiles
>>>> is in the Med, but it really doesn't make sense to put a
>>>> posidon equipped sub in the med.
>>> Wait, you are asking me to explain how the USA Commander in
>>> Chief, Joe Biden, thinks ?
>>>
>>> And there are two escape routes from the Med. The Straits of
>>> Gibraltar and the Suez Canal. Israel routinely sends one or
>>> two of their Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear
>>> weapons, down the Suez Canal. And no, they do not pay the
>>> canal tax. I would bet that the USA does not pay the canal tax
>>> either.
>>> https://dod.defense.gov/OIR/gallery/igphoto/2001237565/
>>
>> Suez max draft is 20.1m. Dolphin class is only 6.2m. Probably
>> at least double that when submerged. It's barely plausible that
>> it could sail the canal submerged, but I'd expect any periscope
>> to to noticed quickly. It doesn't actually need to, the
>> Egypt-Israeli peace treaty allows Israeli warships to use the
>> canal.
>>
>> Ohio class has a draft of 10.8 m, and I doubt one could
>> submerge in the canal.
>>
>> Pt
>
> "Iranian news portal Nournews, a mouthpiece of the ayatollah
> regime in Tehran, reported on Monday that an Israeli
> Dolphin-class submarine secretly entered the Red Sea last
> Wednesday, August 4, through the Suez Canal."
> https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/08/10/671219/
>
> Secret usually means submerged for a sub.

And "iranian news portal" usually means "we made this up as
propaganda for our own people because nobody else in the world will
believe anything we say anyway."

--
Terry Austin

"Terry Austin: like the polio vaccine, only with more asshole."
-- David Bilek

Jesus forgives sinners, not criminals.

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 12:06:36 PM UTC-5, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:tkff70$5h4h$2...@dont-email.me:
> > On 11/8/2022 10:06 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:37:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire
> >> wrote:
> >>> On 11/8/2022 5:59 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>>> On 11/8/2022 3:48 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
> >>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
> >>>>>>> On 10/29/2022 11:40 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
> >>>>>>>> I was reading an article that claimed that there was a
> >>>>>>>> good chance that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually
> >>>>>>>> inoperative due to Russia's economic woes and war in
> >>>>>>>> Ukraine.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and
> >>>>>>>> costs a lot of money to make.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used
> >>>>>>>> deuterium and tritium and needed regular topping-up.
> >>>>>>>> Modern hydrogen bombs use lithium-6 deuteride, and
> >>>>>>>> lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his
> >>>>>>>> conclusions, he neglected to check his facts even to the
> >>>>>>>> extent of peeking at Wikipedia.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> John Savard
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> “”Give Kremlin A Warning”: US ‘Nuclear
> >>>>>>> Apocalypse’ Submarine Enters Mediterranean Sea”
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> https://www.zerohedge.com/military/give-kremlin-warning-us-
> >>>>>>> nuclear-apocalypse-submarine-enters-mediterranean-sea
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> “Multiple reports show the world’s largest nuclear
> >>>>>>> submarine, the USS Rhode Island, left the Port of
> >>>>>>> Gibraltar on Spain’s south coast last week and was last
> >>>>>>> seen entering the Mediterranean. British newspaper
> >>>>>>> Daily Express said the nuclear submarine is “reportedly
> >>>>>>> heading towards the Black Sea.””
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> My goodness, she is a big girl. Not much hot bunking on
> >>>>>>> her. One of my son’s friends slept on top of a torpedo
> >>>>>>> for all of his deployments, he strictly had 8 hours, two
> >>>>>>> other guys shared the bed.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a
> >>>>>>> provocation. Two, it is a deadly threat.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm of the mind that Zero Hedge is not worth the pixels it
> >>>>>> paints.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The Ohio class boats are four decades old now and the Rhode
> >>>>>> Island is on a scheduled port visit to Gibralter.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The "Daily Press" is a british tabloid.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's highly unlikely that a boomer would enter the med,
> >>>>>> where it would be unable to run silent and run deep.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Isn't the Med mostly 3,000 to 5,000 feet deep and up to to
> >>>>> 17,000 feet deep ? I suspect that they could run silent and
> >>>>> deep there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea
> >>>>
> >>>> There is only one way out, discounting the canal and the
> >>>> Posidon range is over 2500 miles. Why bottle up a valuable
> >>>> asset in an area where there is only one escape route?
> >>>>
> >>>> The Georgia, an Ohio-class converted to conventional missiles
> >>>> is in the Med, but it really doesn't make sense to put a
> >>>> posidon equipped sub in the med.
> >>> Wait, you are asking me to explain how the USA Commander in
> >>> Chief, Joe Biden, thinks ?
> >>>
> >>> And there are two escape routes from the Med. The Straits of
> >>> Gibraltar and the Suez Canal. Israel routinely sends one or
> >>> two of their Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear
> >>> weapons, down the Suez Canal. And no, they do not pay the
> >>> canal tax. I would bet that the USA does not pay the canal tax
> >>> either.
> >>> https://dod.defense.gov/OIR/gallery/igphoto/2001237565/
> >>
> >> Suez max draft is 20.1m. Dolphin class is only 6.2m. Probably
> >> at least double that when submerged. It's barely plausible that
> >> it could sail the canal submerged, but I'd expect any periscope
> >> to to noticed quickly. It doesn't actually need to, the
> >> Egypt-Israeli peace treaty allows Israeli warships to use the
> >> canal.
> >>
> >> Ohio class has a draft of 10.8 m, and I doubt one could
> >> submerge in the canal.
> >>
> >> Pt
> >
> > "Iranian news portal Nournews, a mouthpiece of the ayatollah
> > regime in Tehran, reported on Monday that an Israeli
> > Dolphin-class submarine secretly entered the Red Sea last
> > Wednesday, August 4, through the Suez Canal."
> > https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/08/10/671219/
> >
> > Secret usually means submerged for a sub.
> And "iranian news portal" usually means "we made this up as
> propaganda for our own people because nobody else in the world will
> believe anything we say anyway."

Good catch. Iranian news agencies are not trustworthy, at least it on
the topic of the Israeli military. There's very little reason for them to try
a secret submerged passage, and I strongly doubt they'd succeed.

Pt

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:11:12 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 11:06:27 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:37:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > >
> > > And there are two escape routes from the Med. The Straits of Gibraltar
> > > and the Suez Canal. Israel routinely sends one or two of their
> > > Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear weapons, down the Suez
> > > Canal. And no, they do not pay the canal tax. I would bet that the USA
> > > does not pay the canal tax either.
> > > https://dod.defense.gov/OIR/gallery/igphoto/2001237565/
>
> > Suez max draft is 20.1m. Dolphin class is only 6.2m. Probably at least double
> > that when submerged. It's barely plausible that it could sail the canal submerged,
> > but I'd expect any periscope to to noticed quickly. It doesn't actually need to, the
> > Egypt-Israeli peace treaty allows Israeli warships to use the canal.
> The Suez is the one that got blocked by a container ship a few years back? I remember a side story about long wait times just queueing up to enter.
>
> Looks like a Dolphin class is diesel-electric, there's only so long it can stay submerged. It probably wants to go slow, just supplying the "hotel loads," pushing aside that water takes a lot of energy.
> It probably doesn't have to surface for diesel. The Ohio class has a snorkel about as high as the periscope at the back of the sail, and bubbles the exhaust smoke out the top aft of the sail (when submerged, on the surface they don't have to deal with back pressure on the exhaust and get a little more power). Less noticeable than surfacing, but, as you say, still noticeable.

The Ohio class is nuclear, and has no exhaust under normal circumstances.

Pt

On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 8:18:21 AM UTC-6, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 7:17:21 PM UTC-4, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> > Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
> > news:ceaace75-7ee0-426b...@googlegroups.com:
> > > I was reading an article that claimed that there was a good
> > > chance that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually inoperative
> > > due to Russia's economic woes and war in Ukraine.
> > >
> > > The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and costs a
> > > lot of money to make.
> > >
> > > Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used deuterium and
> > > tritium and needed regular topping-up. Modern hydrogen bombs use
> > > lithium-6 deuteride, and lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
> > What's the timeline on that? does Russia *have* any *modern* hydrogen
> > bombs? Or are they still working with old Soviet stock?
> > >
> > > So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his
> > > conclusions, he neglected to check his facts even to the extent
> > > of peeking at Wikipedia.
> > Both nuclear warheads (of all types) and missiles require a lot of
> > other mainteance, as well, which is, for the most part, high tech,
> > requiring a high degree of skill and a lot of money.
> This isn't an area where you want to bet your life on Russian corruption
> or incompetence.
I recently read a novel called The Half Life of Valery K (Somewhat longer than Tritium) which describes a real event in Russia
which Nuclear waste was precipitated in such a way that Ammonium Nitrate was made as a byproduct. Then there was a cooling failure. I thing they learned something from that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyshtym_disaster

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:26:48 PM UTC-5, artyw2@yahoo.com wrote:
> On Sunday, October 30, 2022 at 8:18:21 AM UTC-6, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Saturday, October 29, 2022 at 7:17:21 PM UTC-4, Ninapenda Jibini wrote:
> > > Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
> > > news:ceaace75-7ee0-426b...@googlegroups.com:
> > > > I was reading an article that claimed that there was a good
> > > > chance that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually inoperative
> > > > due to Russia's economic woes and war in Ukraine.
> > > >
> > > > The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and costs a
> > > > lot of money to make.
> > > >
> > > > Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used deuterium and
> > > > tritium and needed regular topping-up. Modern hydrogen bombs use
> > > > lithium-6 deuteride, and lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
> > > What's the timeline on that? does Russia *have* any *modern* hydrogen
> > > bombs? Or are they still working with old Soviet stock?
> > > >
> > > > So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his
> > > > conclusions, he neglected to check his facts even to the extent
> > > > of peeking at Wikipedia.
> > > Both nuclear warheads (of all types) and missiles require a lot of
> > > other mainteance, as well, which is, for the most part, high tech,
> > > requiring a high degree of skill and a lot of money.
> > This isn't an area where you want to bet your life on Russian corruption
> > or incompetence.
> I recently read a novel called The Half Life of Valery K (Somewhat longer than Tritium) which describes a real event in Russia
> which Nuclear waste was precipitated in such a way that Ammonium Nitrate was made as a byproduct. Then there was a cooling failure. I thing they learned something from that.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyshtym_disaster

I read about that in 1976, when Soviet dissident Zhores Medvedev wrote about in New Scientist.
Up till then, it was unknown to the Western public.

Pt

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:00:21 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:11:12 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 11:06:27 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:37:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > >
> > > > And there are two escape routes from the Med. The Straits of Gibraltar
> > > > and the Suez Canal. Israel routinely sends one or two of their
> > > > Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear weapons, down the Suez
> > > > Canal. And no, they do not pay the canal tax. I would bet that the USA
> > > > does not pay the canal tax either.
> > > > https://dod.defense.gov/OIR/gallery/igphoto/2001237565/
> >
> > > Suez max draft is 20.1m. Dolphin class is only 6.2m. Probably at least double
> > > that when submerged. It's barely plausible that it could sail the canal submerged,
> > > but I'd expect any periscope to to noticed quickly. It doesn't actually need to, the
> > > Egypt-Israeli peace treaty allows Israeli warships to use the canal.
> > The Suez is the one that got blocked by a container ship a few years back? I remember a side story about long wait times just queueing up to enter..
> >
> > Looks like a Dolphin class is diesel-electric, there's only so long it can stay submerged. It probably wants to go slow, just supplying the "hotel loads," pushing aside that water takes a lot of energy.
> > It probably doesn't have to surface for diesel. The Ohio class has a snorkel about as high as the periscope at the back of the sail, and bubbles the exhaust smoke out the top aft of the sail (when submerged, on the surface they don't have to deal with back pressure on the exhaust and get a little more power). Less noticeable than surfacing, but, as you say, still noticeable.

> The Ohio class is nuclear, and has no exhaust under normal circumstances.

Sorry, I was using the Ohio as the only one I physically know where the intake and outlet for the diesel are. Yes, an Ohio class could take weeks through a canal fully submerged, except, as you say, the problem of fully submerging. They have a diesel as well as a battery despite this -- no, because of this! The battery might not be enough to handle an emergency, and you really want a backup to handle such an emergency!

--
-Jack

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 2:16:06 PM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:00:21 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:11:12 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 11:06:27 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:37:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > And there are two escape routes from the Med. The Straits of Gibraltar
> > > > > and the Suez Canal. Israel routinely sends one or two of their
> > > > > Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear weapons, down the Suez
> > > > > Canal. And no, they do not pay the canal tax. I would bet that the USA
> > > > > does not pay the canal tax either.
> > > > > https://dod.defense.gov/OIR/gallery/igphoto/2001237565/
> > >
> > > > Suez max draft is 20.1m. Dolphin class is only 6.2m. Probably at least double
> > > > that when submerged. It's barely plausible that it could sail the canal submerged,
> > > > but I'd expect any periscope to to noticed quickly. It doesn't actually need to, the
> > > > Egypt-Israeli peace treaty allows Israeli warships to use the canal..
> > > The Suez is the one that got blocked by a container ship a few years back? I remember a side story about long wait times just queueing up to enter.
> > >
> > > Looks like a Dolphin class is diesel-electric, there's only so long it can stay submerged. It probably wants to go slow, just supplying the "hotel loads," pushing aside that water takes a lot of energy.
> > > It probably doesn't have to surface for diesel. The Ohio class has a snorkel about as high as the periscope at the back of the sail, and bubbles the exhaust smoke out the top aft of the sail (when submerged, on the surface they don't have to deal with back pressure on the exhaust and get a little more power). Less noticeable than surfacing, but, as you say, still noticeable.
>
> > The Ohio class is nuclear, and has no exhaust under normal circumstances.
> Sorry, I was using the Ohio as the only one I physically know where the intake and outlet for the diesel are. Yes, an Ohio class could take weeks through a canal fully submerged, except, as you say, the problem of fully submerging. They have a diesel as well as a battery despite this -- no, because of this! The battery might not be enough to handle an emergency, and you really want a backup to handle such an emergency!

I think you're a bit confused. Israeli Dolphin class subs are diesel electric. American Ohio
class are nuclear. They do have a diesel auxiliary power unit to generate electricity in an
emergency when the reactor is down, but that's not in regular use.

While it theoretically possible for a Dolphin class to travel in the canal submerged, it would quite a feat, and easily detected by the Egyptians.

Pt

On 2022-11-09 08:06, Jibini Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:tkff70$5h4h$2@dont-email.me:
>
>> On 11/8/2022 10:06 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 7:37:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire
>>> wrote:
>>>> On 11/8/2022 5:59 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>> On 11/8/2022 3:48 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>>>>>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>>>> On 10/29/2022 11:40 AM, Quadibloc wrote:
>>>>>>>>> I was reading an article that claimed that there was a
>>>>>>>>> good chance that Russia's nuclear arsenal was actually
>>>>>>>>> inoperative due to Russia's economic woes and war in
>>>>>>>>> Ukraine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The logic was that tritium has a short half-life, and
>>>>>>>>> costs a lot of money to make.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Too bad that only the earliest hydrogen bombs used
>>>>>>>>> deuterium and tritium and needed regular topping-up.
>>>>>>>>> Modern hydrogen bombs use lithium-6 deuteride, and
>>>>>>>>> lithium-6, like deuterium, is stable.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So while the author used "basic physics" to reach his
>>>>>>>>> conclusions, he neglected to check his facts even to the
>>>>>>>>> extent of peeking at Wikipedia.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John Savard
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> “”Give Kremlin A Warning”: US ‘Nuclear
>>>>>>>> Apocalypse’ Submarine Enters Mediterranean Sea”
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.zerohedge.com/military/give-kremlin-warning-us-
>>>>>>>> nuclear-apocalypse-submarine-enters-mediterranean-sea
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> “Multiple reports show the world’s largest nuclear
>>>>>>>> submarine, the USS Rhode Island, left the Port of
>>>>>>>> Gibraltar on Spain’s south coast last week and was last
>>>>>>>> seen entering the Mediterranean. British newspaper
>>>>>>>> Daily Express said the nuclear submarine is “reportedly
>>>>>>>> heading towards the Black Sea.””
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My goodness, she is a big girl. Not much hot bunking on
>>>>>>>> her. One of my son’s friends slept on top of a torpedo
>>>>>>>> for all of his deployments, he strictly had 8 hours, two
>>>>>>>> other guys shared the bed.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I am of two minds on this. One is that it is a
>>>>>>>> provocation. Two, it is a deadly threat.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm of the mind that Zero Hedge is not worth the pixels it
>>>>>>> paints.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Ohio class boats are four decades old now and the Rhode
>>>>>>> Island is on a scheduled port visit to Gibralter.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The "Daily Press" is a british tabloid.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's highly unlikely that a boomer would enter the med,
>>>>>>> where it would be unable to run silent and run deep.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Isn't the Med mostly 3,000 to 5,000 feet deep and up to to
>>>>>> 17,000 feet deep ? I suspect that they could run silent and
>>>>>> deep there. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_Sea
>>>>>
>>>>> There is only one way out, discounting the canal and the
>>>>> Posidon range is over 2500 miles. Why bottle up a valuable
>>>>> asset in an area where there is only one escape route?
>>>>>
>>>>> The Georgia, an Ohio-class converted to conventional missiles
>>>>> is in the Med, but it really doesn't make sense to put a
>>>>> posidon equipped sub in the med.
>>>> Wait, you are asking me to explain how the USA Commander in
>>>> Chief, Joe Biden, thinks ?
>>>>
>>>> And there are two escape routes from the Med. The Straits of
>>>> Gibraltar and the Suez Canal. Israel routinely sends one or
>>>> two of their Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear
>>>> weapons, down the Suez Canal. And no, they do not pay the
>>>> canal tax. I would bet that the USA does not pay the canal tax
>>>> either.
>>>> https://dod.defense.gov/OIR/gallery/igphoto/2001237565/
>>>
>>> Suez max draft is 20.1m. Dolphin class is only 6.2m. Probably
>>> at least double that when submerged. It's barely plausible that
>>> it could sail the canal submerged, but I'd expect any periscope
>>> to to noticed quickly. It doesn't actually need to, the
>>> Egypt-Israeli peace treaty allows Israeli warships to use the
>>> canal.
>>>
>>> Ohio class has a draft of 10.8 m, and I doubt one could
>>> submerge in the canal.
>>>
>>> Pt
>>
>> "Iranian news portal Nournews, a mouthpiece of the ayatollah
>> regime in Tehran, reported on Monday that an Israeli
>> Dolphin-class submarine secretly entered the Red Sea last
>> Wednesday, August 4, through the Suez Canal."
>> https://www.israelhayom.com/2021/08/10/671219/
>>
>> Secret usually means submerged for a sub.
>
> And "iranian news portal" usually means "we made this up as
> propaganda for our own people because nobody else in the world will
> believe anything we say anyway."
>

Well you would certainly understand lying...

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 5:37:43 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> Israel routinely sends one or two of their
> Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear weapons, down the Suez
> Canal.

It does? I thought that Egypt didn't allow Israeli military vessels in the Suez
Canal. And the canal isn't exactly deep enough that they could just sneak
through underneath ordinary shipping as if it was the Pacific Ocean.

Of course, you may know more than I do about what actually goes on there,
but this surprises me because it contradicts what I last heard.

John Savard

Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> writes:
>On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 5:37:43 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> Israel routinely sends one or two of their
>> Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear weapons, down the Suez
>> Canal.
>
>It does? I thought that Egypt didn't allow Israeli military vessels in the Suez
>Canal. And the canal isn't exactly deep enough that they could just sneak
>through underneath ordinary shipping as if it was the Pacific Ocean.
>
>Of course, you may know more than I do about what actually goes on there,

Now that seems highly unlikely.

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 5:00:51 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 2:16:06 PM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:00:21 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:11:12 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 11:06:27 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Suez max draft is 20.1m. Dolphin class is only 6.2m. Probably at least double
> > > > > that when submerged. It's barely plausible that it could sail the canal submerged,
> > > > > but I'd expect any periscope to to noticed quickly. It doesn't actually need to, the
> > > > > Egypt-Israeli peace treaty allows Israeli warships to use the canal.
> > > > The Suez is the one that got blocked by a container ship a few years back? I remember a side story about long wait times just queueing up to enter.
> > > >
> > > > Looks like a Dolphin class is diesel-electric, there's only so long it can stay submerged. It probably wants to go slow, just supplying the "hotel loads," pushing aside that water takes a lot of energy.
> > > > It probably doesn't have to surface for diesel. The Ohio class has a snorkel about as high as the periscope at the back of the sail, and bubbles the exhaust smoke out the top aft of the sail (when submerged, on the surface they don't have to deal with back pressure on the exhaust and get a little more power). Less noticeable than surfacing, but, as you say, still noticeable.
> >
> > > The Ohio class is nuclear, and has no exhaust under normal circumstances.
> > Sorry, I was using the Ohio as the only one I physically know where the intake and outlet for the diesel are. Yes, an Ohio class could take weeks through a canal fully submerged, except, as you say, the problem of fully submerging. They have a diesel as well as a battery despite this -- no, because of this! The battery might not be enough to handle an emergency, and you really want a backup to handle such an emergency!
> I think you're a bit confused.

No, I'm just not communicating it well to you. I should probably give it up as not worth the effort of three back-and-forths, but where would this newsgroup be if everybody did that? Let me expand on my previous lines around to try to make them clearer.

> > > > Looks like a Dolphin class is diesel-electric, there's only so long it can stay submerged.
I see transit time of the canal is 12 to 16 hours. (Plus a bit of queueing and positioning at the entrance, but if the Dolphin is sneaking in, it can jump the line.)
If the Dolphin is fully submerged, it has to run on battery.
> > > > It probably wants to go slow, just supplying the "hotel loads," pushing aside that water takes a lot of energy.
I really don't know how long its battery is good for. It probably spends a good deal of its time on the surface running the diesel. However...
> > > > It probably doesn't have to surface for diesel.
It probably has a snorkel arrangement, to draw in air when submerged, and exhaust most of the smoke out of the submarine.
> > using the Ohio as the only one I physically know where the intake and outlet for the diesel
, t
> > > > he Ohio class has a snorkel about as high as the periscope at the back of the sail, and bubbles the exhaust smoke out the top aft of the sail
, bubbling cools and disperses most of the smoke, making it less noticeable at a distance. Distance, however, is something we don't have in the canal..

--
-Jack

On 11/9/2022 10:58 PM, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 5:37:43 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> Israel routinely sends one or two of their
>> Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear weapons, down the Suez
>> Canal.
>
> It does? I thought that Egypt didn't allow Israeli military vessels in the Suez
> Canal. And the canal isn't exactly deep enough that they could just sneak
> through underneath ordinary shipping as if it was the Pacific Ocean.
>
> Of course, you may know more than I do about what actually goes on there,
> but this surprises me because it contradicts what I last heard.
>
> John Savard

"Israeli submarine transits Suez Canal in show of force against Iran"
https://www.upi.com/Defense-News/2020/12/23/Israeli-submarine-transits-Suez-Canal-in-show-of-force-against-Iran/4631608751119/

"Israeli sub sails Suez, signaling reach to Iran"
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-iran-submarine-idUSTRE5621XZ20090703

Lynn

On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 8:58:32 PM UTC-8, Quadibloc wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 5:37:43 PM UTC-7, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> > Israel routinely sends one or two of their
> > Dolphins, also reputedly armed with nuclear weapons, down the Suez
> > Canal.
> It does? I thought that Egypt didn't allow Israeli military vessels in the Suez
> Canal. And the canal isn't exactly deep enough that they could just sneak
> through underneath ordinary shipping as if it was the Pacific Ocean.
>
> Of course, you may know more than I do about what actually goes on there,
> but this surprises me because it contradicts what I last heard.

When, and where did you "hear" that?

Again, you embarrass yourself by failing to do basic checking.

https://www.haaretz.com/2012-10-30/ty-article/.premium/egypt-report-israel-navy-ships-sailed-through-suez-canal/0000017f-eb0d-ddba-a37f-eb6f121b0000

Pt

On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 8:13:05 AM UTC-8, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 5:00:51 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 2:16:06 PM UTC-5, jack....@gmail.com wrote:
> > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 1:00:21 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:11:12 AM UTC-5, jack....@gmail..com wrote:
> > > > > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 11:06:27 PM UTC-5, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Suez max draft is 20.1m. Dolphin class is only 6.2m. Probably at least double
> > > > > > that when submerged. It's barely plausible that it could sail the canal submerged,
> > > > > > but I'd expect any periscope to to noticed quickly. It doesn't actually need to, the
> > > > > > Egypt-Israeli peace treaty allows Israeli warships to use the canal.
> > > > > The Suez is the one that got blocked by a container ship a few years back? I remember a side story about long wait times just queueing up to enter.
> > > > >
> > > > > Looks like a Dolphin class is diesel-electric, there's only so long it can stay submerged. It probably wants to go slow, just supplying the "hotel loads," pushing aside that water takes a lot of energy.
> > > > > It probably doesn't have to surface for diesel. The Ohio class has a snorkel about as high as the periscope at the back of the sail, and bubbles the exhaust smoke out the top aft of the sail (when submerged, on the surface they don't have to deal with back pressure on the exhaust and get a little more power). Less noticeable than surfacing, but, as you say, still noticeable.
> > >
> > > > The Ohio class is nuclear, and has no exhaust under normal circumstances.
> > > Sorry, I was using the Ohio as the only one I physically know where the intake and outlet for the diesel are. Yes, an Ohio class could take weeks through a canal fully submerged, except, as you say, the problem of fully submerging. They have a diesel as well as a battery despite this -- no, because of this! The battery might not be enough to handle an emergency, and you really want a backup to handle such an emergency!
> > I think you're a bit confused.
> No, I'm just not communicating it well to you. I should probably give it up as not worth the effort of three back-and-forths, but where would this newsgroup be if everybody did that? Let me expand on my previous lines around to try to make them clearer.
> > > > > Looks like a Dolphin class is diesel-electric, there's only so long it can stay submerged.
> I see transit time of the canal is 12 to 16 hours. (Plus a bit of queueing and positioning at the entrance, but if the Dolphin is sneaking in, it can jump the line.)
> If the Dolphin is fully submerged, it has to run on battery.
> > > > > It probably wants to go slow, just supplying the "hotel loads," pushing aside that water takes a lot of energy.
> I really don't know how long its battery is good for. It probably spends a good deal of its time on the surface running the diesel. However...
> > > > > It probably doesn't have to surface for diesel.
> It probably has a snorkel arrangement, to draw in air when submerged, and exhaust most of the smoke out of the submarine.
> > > using the Ohio as the only one I physically know where the intake and outlet for the diesel
> , t
> > > > > he Ohio class has a snorkel about as high as the periscope at the back of the sail, and bubbles the exhaust smoke out the top aft of the sail
> , bubbling cools and disperses most of the smoke, making it less noticeable at a distance. Distance, however, is something we don't have in the canal.

You're almost as bad as Quaddie in not doing basic research. The Dolphin class has
a 400 nautical mile range, submerged.

Pt