On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 23:46:50 +1100, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:

> On 02/11/2022 18:54, Charles Packer wrote:
>> Is there any SF writing that posits that the earth's weather has been
>> brought under complete human control? It would seem that something like
>> that would be thought of sooner or later by minds pondering the future.
>
> I recall a short story involving fully controlled weather, can't recall
> the title or author, but it involved using a "vertical front" to
> <SPOILER>.
>
> And a bit of rational thought sent me here:
> <https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/weather_control>.
>

I'm still digesting the references in this entry.
I had never heard of Disney's partly animated short
"Eyes in Outer Space."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw9Leq98IRU
It hit theaters nationwide in Sept. 1959. The first weather
satellite, TIROS-1 was launched the following April.
The film was clearly aimed at adults, and sure enough the newspaper
archives show that it came along as an "extra added feature"
to films such as "The Crucible", "The Devil's Disciple",
"Blue Denim", "Pillow Talk", etc. It's the only place where I've
ever seen spelled out the actual mechanics of what would be
required to push storms around. But it's odd how it was pretty
much devoid of references to actual ongoing work. Were spacecraft
back then actually assembled by a couple of guys at a workbench
evidently not in a cleanroom?

On 03/11/2022 12.53, Stephen Harker wrote:

> If I have it correct "The Weather Man" by Theodore L. Thomas and related
> short stories or novellas which were published in _Analog_ in the early
> 1960's at least, featured "sessile boats" and a fair degree of weather
> control. I will try to find my copies of some of those issues.

I just reread "The Weather Man" yesterday, and it does use "sessile boats"
to scoot around on the surface of the sun. Apparently, that meant squirting
out some carbon which vaporized and acted as an insulating later.

In my opinion, they should have just gone at night.

But, there is another aspect of those boats that I'd like to bring up. They
were toroidal. (Two stacked torii, really). If I recall correctly, Brin
used toroidal boats for zipping around on the sun's surface in _Sundiver_.

Admittedly, two data points is a pretty small sample, but I need to ask
if this use of torii for solar expeditions was based on some (possibly
now-discarded) physical theory, or if it was just rule of cool.

--
Michael F. Stemper
Economists have correctly predicted seven of the last three recessions.

On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 3:57:54 AM UTC-4, Charles Packer wrote:
> On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 23:46:50 +1100, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>
> > On 02/11/2022 18:54, Charles Packer wrote:
> >> Is there any SF writing that posits that the earth's weather has been
> >> brought under complete human control? It would seem that something like
> >> that would be thought of sooner or later by minds pondering the future.
> >
> > And a bit of rational thought sent me here:
> > <https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/weather_control>.
> >
> I'm still digesting the references in this entry.
> I had never heard of Disney's partly animated short
> "Eyes in Outer Space."
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw9Leq98IRU
> It hit theaters nationwide in Sept. 1959. The first weather
> satellite, TIROS-1 was launched the following April.

A quick perusal brings up no memories of having seen this before.
After spending too long on searching it down, I can say what I was shown in school was 1958's "The Unchained Goddess"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1ph_7C1Jq4
a series of science specials produced by Bell Labs for television, then to schools up at least until the 1970s. From the title, I'm guessing not a lot on weather control.

> The film was clearly aimed at adults, and sure enough the newspaper
> archives show that it came along as an "extra added feature"
> to films such as "The Crucible", "The Devil's Disciple",
> "Blue Denim", "Pillow Talk", etc. It's the only place where I've
> ever seen spelled out the actual mechanics of what would be
> required to push storms around. But it's odd how it was pretty
> much devoid of references to actual ongoing work. Were spacecraft
> back then actually assembled by a couple of guys at a workbench
> evidently not in a cleanroom?

Probably while smoking! But this was a Disney film, so none of that.
How delicate was the equipment? I remember they wanted crewed capsules to be free of debris that could float around and get into the fragile humans, one of the tests was to invert the capsule. The first time this was done, everyone could hear it rattle!
Doris Day, of "Pillow Talk" above referenced, encountered a clean room in 1966 in "The Glass Bottom Boat."

--
-Jack

In article <a25836ac-d7ec-43bb-b3da-175b8579a41bn@googlegroups.com>,
Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 3:57:54 AM UTC-4, Charles Packer wrote:
>> On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 23:46:50 +1100, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>
>> > On 02/11/2022 18:54, Charles Packer wrote:
>> >> Is there any SF writing that posits that the earth's weather has been
>> >> brought under complete human control? It would seem that something like
>> >> that would be thought of sooner or later by minds pondering the future.
>> >
>> > And a bit of rational thought sent me here:
>> > <https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/weather_control>.
>> >
>> I'm still digesting the references in this entry.
>> I had never heard of Disney's partly animated short
>> "Eyes in Outer Space."
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw9Leq98IRU
>> It hit theaters nationwide in Sept. 1959. The first weather
>> satellite, TIROS-1 was launched the following April.
>
>A quick perusal brings up no memories of having seen this before.
>After spending too long on searching it down, I can say what I was shown
>in school was 1958's "The Unchained Goddess"
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1ph_7C1Jq4
>a series of science specials produced by Bell Labs for television, then
>to schools up at least until the 1970s. From the title, I'm guessing
>not a lot on weather control.
>

The same series as "Hemo The Magnificent", which I must have seen
10 times in school.

Ah, where have you gone, Bell Labs?
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Fri, 04 Nov 2022 07:57:49 GMT, Charles Packer <mailbox@cpacker.org>
wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 23:46:50 +1100, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>
>> On 02/11/2022 18:54, Charles Packer wrote:
>>> Is there any SF writing that posits that the earth's weather has been
>>> brought under complete human control? It would seem that something like
>>> that would be thought of sooner or later by minds pondering the future.
>>
>> I recall a short story involving fully controlled weather, can't recall
>> the title or author, but it involved using a "vertical front" to
>> <SPOILER>.
>>
>> And a bit of rational thought sent me here:
>> <https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/weather_control>.
>>
>
>
>I'm still digesting the references in this entry.
>I had never heard of Disney's partly animated short
>"Eyes in Outer Space."
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw9Leq98IRU
>It hit theaters nationwide in Sept. 1959. The first weather
>satellite, TIROS-1 was launched the following April.
>The film was clearly aimed at adults, and sure enough the newspaper
>archives show that it came along as an "extra added feature"
>to films such as "The Crucible", "The Devil's Disciple",
>"Blue Denim", "Pillow Talk", etc. It's the only place where I've
>ever seen spelled out the actual mechanics of what would be
>required to push storms around. But it's odd how it was pretty
>much devoid of references to actual ongoing work. Were spacecraft
>back then actually assembled by a couple of guys at a workbench
>evidently not in a cleanroom?
>

I don't remember that one (since I turned 13 in 1959, this is not
surprising). But I remember other specials on TV that may have been
Disney.

One provided a step-by-step plan for reaching the moon, starting with
a space station. And, yes, it preceded 2001.

Another used a room full of ping-pong balls on mouse traps to
illustrate the term "chain reaction".

And, yes, AT&T did a lot of these things too. A fact satirized in /The
President's Analyst/ -- along with Disney's Abe Lincoln.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

"Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> writes:

> On 03/11/2022 12.53, Stephen Harker wrote:
>
>> If I have it correct "The Weather Man" by Theodore L. Thomas and related
>> short stories or novellas which were published in _Analog_ in the early
>> 1960's at least, featured "sessile boats" and a fair degree of weather
>> control. I will try to find my copies of some of those issues.
>
> I just reread "The Weather Man" yesterday, and it does use "sessile boats"
> to scoot around on the surface of the sun. Apparently, that meant squirting
> out some carbon which vaporized and acted as an insulating later.

Thanks for checking. I got caught up with work on Friday and did not
look at the old Analog's in plastic boxes on top of a set of
bookshelves. However, your post caused me to try the old Analog
Anthologies. I found it in _Analog 2_, so will read tomorrow.

I had the idea there was more than one story, but that is not the case
from ISFDB (and going to the author page also).

https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?55492

> In my opinion, they should have just gone at night.

:-)

> But, there is another aspect of those boats that I'd like to bring up. They
> were toroidal. (Two stacked torii, really). If I recall correctly, Brin
> used toroidal boats for zipping around on the sun's surface in _Sundiver_.
>
> Admittedly, two data points is a pretty small sample, but I need to ask
> if this use of torii for solar expeditions was based on some (possibly
> now-discarded) physical theory, or if it was just rule of cool.

Good pickup and an interesting question.

--
Stephen Harker sjharker@netspace.net.au
was: http://sjharker.customer.netspace.net.au/
now: http://members.iinet.net.au/~sjharker@netspace.net.au/
or: http://members.iinet.net.au/~sjharker_nbn/

I think here <https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03yqj37>
is a short episode of radio drama documentary from 2014
on the subject of malaria, dealing specifically with
the U.S. taking over the Panama Canal project from
France. My impression is a lot was glossed over from
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_Canal#United_States_construction_of_the_Panama_canal,_1904–1914>
and a conversation between a French administrator
and the chief officer of the American project may be
imaginary at best, but, in this BBC version, the American
lays out plans to conquer malaria, and the French man
says that after that, the Americans should be able to
defeat weather.

In article <jskn5oFm40aU1@mid.individual.net>,
Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>In article <a25836ac-d7ec-43bb-b3da-175b8579a41bn@googlegroups.com>,
>Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>>On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 3:57:54 AM UTC-4, Charles Packer wrote:
>>> On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 23:46:50 +1100, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>>
>>> > On 02/11/2022 18:54, Charles Packer wrote:
>>> >> Is there any SF writing that posits that the earth's weather has been
>>> >> brought under complete human control? It would seem that something like
>>> >> that would be thought of sooner or later by minds pondering the future.
>>> >
>>> > And a bit of rational thought sent me here:
>>> > <https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/weather_control>.
>>> >
>>> I'm still digesting the references in this entry.
>>> I had never heard of Disney's partly animated short
>>> "Eyes in Outer Space."
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw9Leq98IRU
>>> It hit theaters nationwide in Sept. 1959. The first weather
>>> satellite, TIROS-1 was launched the following April.
>>
>>A quick perusal brings up no memories of having seen this before.
>>After spending too long on searching it down, I can say what I was shown
>>in school was 1958's "The Unchained Goddess"
>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1ph_7C1Jq4
>>a series of science specials produced by Bell Labs for television, then
>>to schools up at least until the 1970s. From the title, I'm guessing
>>not a lot on weather control.
>>
>
>The same series as "Hemo The Magnificent", which I must have seen
>10 times in school.
>
>Ah, where have you gone, Bell Labs?

(Hal Heydt)
And "Our Mr. Sun". Excellent series.

In article <rKw5qo.24Bq@kithrup.com>,
Dorothy J Heydt <djheydt@kithrup.com> wrote:
>In article <jskn5oFm40aU1@mid.individual.net>,
>Ted Nolan <tednolan> <tednolan> wrote:
>>In article <a25836ac-d7ec-43bb-b3da-175b8579a41bn@googlegroups.com>,
>>Jack Bohn <jack.bohn64@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>On Friday, November 4, 2022 at 3:57:54 AM UTC-4, Charles Packer wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 02 Nov 2022 23:46:50 +1100, Gary R. Schmidt wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > On 02/11/2022 18:54, Charles Packer wrote:
>>>> >> Is there any SF writing that posits that the earth's weather has been
>>>> >> brought under complete human control? It would seem that something like
>>>> >> that would be thought of sooner or later by minds pondering the future.
>>>> >
>>>> > And a bit of rational thought sent me here:
>>>> > <https://sf-encyclopedia.com/entry/weather_control>.
>>>> >
>>>> I'm still digesting the references in this entry.
>>>> I had never heard of Disney's partly animated short
>>>> "Eyes in Outer Space."
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xw9Leq98IRU
>>>> It hit theaters nationwide in Sept. 1959. The first weather
>>>> satellite, TIROS-1 was launched the following April.
>>>
>>>A quick perusal brings up no memories of having seen this before.
>>>After spending too long on searching it down, I can say what I was shown
>>>in school was 1958's "The Unchained Goddess"
>>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1ph_7C1Jq4
>>>a series of science specials produced by Bell Labs for television, then
>>>to schools up at least until the 1970s. From the title, I'm guessing
>>>not a lot on weather control.
>>>
>>
>>The same series as "Hemo The Magnificent", which I must have seen
>>10 times in school.
>>
>>Ah, where have you gone, Bell Labs?
>
>(Hal Heydt)
>And "Our Mr. Sun". Excellent series.

Looking at WP, Frank Capra directed, which I did not know!
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 2:54:40 AM UTC-5, Charles Packer wrote:
> Is there any SF writing that posits that the earth's weather has
> been brought under complete human control? It would seem that
> something like that would be thought of sooner or later by minds
> pondering the future.

In Robert Heinlein's 1941 novel _Methuselah's Children_ weather control
is shown as an established technology. As a minor plot point, after
administrator Slayton Ford agrees to Lazarus Long's plan to let the Howard
families escape on the starship New Frontiers, Ford orders weather controllers
to park a severe storm on top of the concentration camp where the families
are held on the pretext that this will demoralize them; the real reason is to
provide cover when Lazarus lands a ship there to take the Howards up to the
New Frontiers in Earth orbit.

In Gordon Dickson's Nebulla Award winning novelette _Call Him Lord_ it is mentioned
that a set of space stations was put in orbit around the Earth to prevent the
planet from entering into a new ice age.

The 1978 novel _Weather War_ by Leonard Leokum and Paul Posnick seems to have been
more of a technothriller than science fiction. I have not read it myself but I've seen reviews.
Set in the then present day, a series of extreme weather events not unlike those we see
now attributed to climate change are caused by covert actions by the United States and
the Soviet Union to modify the weather to each sides advantage and the others disadvantage.

From a review in PaperbackSwap:

Floods wipe out 2,000 Los Angeles homes! — Killer snowstorm buries Boston! —
Hurricane destroys coast of Miami! — Midwest declared drought disaster area!

Didn't we have severe floods in California this past year? We are having draught here in the
mid-west. The protagonist is a television weather reporter who investigates the anomalous
events and becomes a target of both sides.

A cover blurb could be:

"Everybody does things about the weather but nobody talks about it."

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On Sat, 05 Nov 2022 16:55:28 -0700, peterwezeman@hotmail.com wrote:

>
> The 1978 novel _Weather War_ by Leonard Leokum and Paul Posnick seems to
> have been more of a technothriller than science fiction. I have not read
> it myself but I've seen reviews.

The Heinlein and Dickson books, as you say,
mention weather control only peripherally. "Weather
War" is something else. Anomalies abound in newspaper
articles about the book and authors. Both authors disappear from
history after reviews of the book in early 1979. Only Leokum
seems to have been a real person. I found items about him as a
student at Bard majoring in English, and in 1962 he married. What
is far out, man, is to find one review praising the book for
"marvelous plots and well-rounded characters" and another that
refers to "366 badly written pages." Oh, and one review of it and
two other climate-scary novels is in two different Indiana
newspapers under different bylines without any indication that it
might have been a syndication.

I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
<https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>

Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?

--
Michael F. Stemper
87.3% of all statistics are made up by the person giving them.

In article <tkb3ii$3jm2r$1@dont-email.me>,
Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
>I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
><https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
>
>Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
>don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?
>

This is unhelpful, but going by Google, I can see this is apparently
*not* related to his first series, which had hostile weather machines
on Titan, which threw Earth into an ice-age, taking down the Neanderthals,
who apparently had already achieved space travel, iirc.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:47:03 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <tkb3ii$3jm2r$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
> ><https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
> >
> >Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
> >don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?
> >
> This is unhelpful, but going by Google, I can see this is apparently
> *not* related to his first series, which had hostile weather machines
> on Titan, which threw Earth into an ice-age, taking down the Neanderthals,
> who apparently had already achieved space travel, iirc.

Isn't that the series that started with _The Star Conquerors_. one
of the original Winston juveniles?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

In article <ecddd432-7243-4ca7-9924-9e4c76a39fc6n@googlegroups.com>,
peterwezeman@hotmail.com <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:47:03 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <tkb3ii$3jm2r$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
>> ><https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
>> >
>> >Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
>> >don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?
>> >
>> This is unhelpful, but going by Google, I can see this is apparently
>> *not* related to his first series, which had hostile weather machines
>> on Titan, which threw Earth into an ice-age, taking down the Neanderthals,
>> who apparently had already achieved space travel, iirc.
>
>Isn't that the series that started with _The Star Conquerors_. one
>of the original Winston juveniles?
>

I believe so, yes. To me, that was up there with _Space Cadet_,
_Raiders From The Rings_ &_The Zero Stone_. I've never had the courage
to re-read as an adult given the abuse (including from Bova iirc) it gets.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 7:21:05 PM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <ecddd432-7243-4ca7...@googlegroups.com>,
> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:47:03 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >> In article <tkb3ii$3jm2r$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
> >> ><https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
> >> >
> >> >Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
> >> >don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?
> >> >
> >> This is unhelpful, but going by Google, I can see this is apparently
> >> *not* related to his first series, which had hostile weather machines
> >> on Titan, which threw Earth into an ice-age, taking down the Neanderthals,
> >> who apparently had already achieved space travel, iirc.
> >
> >Isn't that the series that started with _The Star Conquerors_. one
> >of the original Winston juveniles?
> >
> I believe so, yes. To me, that was up there with _Space Cadet_,
> _Raiders From The Rings_ &_The Zero Stone_. I've never had the courage
> to re-read as an adult given the abuse (including from Bova iirc) it gets.

Ben Bova is criticizing his own story? I thought is was a good, young adult
space opera. What doesn't he like about it?

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

In article <1ba826c6-fa44-41fa-8ad0-a7b15142ede7n@googlegroups.com>,
peterwezeman@hotmail.com <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 7:21:05 PM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> In article <ecddd432-7243-4ca7...@googlegroups.com>,
>> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> >On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:47:03 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> >> In article <tkb3ii$3jm2r$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> >> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
>> >> ><https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
>> >> >
>> >> >Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
>> >> >don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?
>> >> >
>> >> This is unhelpful, but going by Google, I can see this is apparently
>> >> *not* related to his first series, which had hostile weather machines
>> >> on Titan, which threw Earth into an ice-age, taking down the Neanderthals,
>> >> who apparently had already achieved space travel, iirc.
>> >
>> >Isn't that the series that started with _The Star Conquerors_. one
>> >of the original Winston juveniles?
>> >
>> I believe so, yes. To me, that was up there with _Space Cadet_,
>> _Raiders From The Rings_ &_The Zero Stone_. I've never had the courage
>> to re-read as an adult given the abuse (including from Bova iirc) it gets.
>
>Ben Bova is criticizing his own story? I thought is was a good, young adult
>space opera. What doesn't he like about it?
>

I could be wrong, but I thought he was on record as being kind of
embarrassed by its first-novelness.

Dang. Now I really do need to re-read.
--
columbiaclosings.com
What's not in Columbia anymore..

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 1:54:06 PM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> In article <1ba826c6-fa44-41fa...@googlegroups.com>,
> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 7:21:05 PM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >> In article <ecddd432-7243-4ca7...@googlegroups.com>,
> >> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >> >On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:47:03 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> >> >> In article <tkb3ii$3jm2r$1...@dont-email.me>,
> >> >> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >> >I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
> >> >> ><https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
> >> >> >
> >> >> >Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
> >> >> >don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?
> >> >> >
> >> >> This is unhelpful, but going by Google, I can see this is apparently
> >> >> *not* related to his first series, which had hostile weather machines
> >> >> on Titan, which threw Earth into an ice-age, taking down the Neanderthals,
> >> >> who apparently had already achieved space travel, iirc.
> >> >
> >> >Isn't that the series that started with _The Star Conquerors_. one
> >> >of the original Winston juveniles?
> >> >
> >> I believe so, yes. To me, that was up there with _Space Cadet_,
> >> _Raiders From The Rings_ &_The Zero Stone_. I've never had the courage
> >> to re-read as an adult given the abuse (including from Bova iirc) it gets.
> >
> >Ben Bova is criticizing his own story? I thought is was a good, young adult
> >space opera. What doesn't he like about it?
> >
> I could be wrong, but I thought he was on record as being kind of
> embarrassed by its first-novelness.

Fairly common I would have thought. I recall Lawrence Watt-Evans saying something similar about an early novel of his.

-Moriarty

On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:19:48 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
> On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 1:54:06 PM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > In article <1ba826c6-fa44-41fa...@googlegroups.com>,
> > peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 7:21:05 PM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > >> In article <ecddd432-7243-4ca7...@googlegroups.com>,
> > >> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:47:03 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > >> >> In article <tkb3ii$3jm2r$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > >> >> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
> > >> >> ><https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
> > >> >> >don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> This is unhelpful, but going by Google, I can see this is apparently
> > >> >> *not* related to his first series, which had hostile weather machines
> > >> >> on Titan, which threw Earth into an ice-age, taking down the Neanderthals,
> > >> >> who apparently had already achieved space travel, iirc.
> > >> >
> > >> >Isn't that the series that started with _The Star Conquerors_. one
> > >> >of the original Winston juveniles?
> > >> >
> > >> I believe so, yes. To me, that was up there with _Space Cadet_,
> > >> _Raiders From The Rings_ &_The Zero Stone_. I've never had the courage
> > >> to re-read as an adult given the abuse (including from Bova iirc) it gets.
> > >
> > >Ben Bova is criticizing his own story? I thought is was a good, young adult
> > >space opera. What doesn't he like about it?
> > >
> > I could be wrong, but I thought he was on record as being kind of
> > embarrassed by its first-novelness.
> Fairly common I would have thought. I recall Lawrence Watt-Evans saying something similar about an early novel of his.

And Clarke rewrote "Against the fall of night" as "The city and the stars". Later, though, he was not entirely sure
which was better.

Outside the field, Stephen Jay Gould mused about buying up and burning all copies of his first collection of
essays.

William Hyde

On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 2:28:25 PM UTC-6, William Hyde wrote:
> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:19:48 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 1:54:06 PM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > > In article <1ba826c6-fa44-41fa...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 7:21:05 PM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > > >> In article <ecddd432-7243-4ca7...@googlegroups.com>,
> > > >> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:47:03 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
> > > >> >> In article <tkb3ii$3jm2r$1...@dont-email.me>,
> > > >> >> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >> >> >I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
> > > >> >> ><https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> >Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
> > > >> >> >don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?
> > > >> >> >
> > > >> >> This is unhelpful, but going by Google, I can see this is apparently
> > > >> >> *not* related to his first series, which had hostile weather machines
> > > >> >> on Titan, which threw Earth into an ice-age, taking down the Neanderthals,
> > > >> >> who apparently had already achieved space travel, iirc.
> > > >> >
> > > >> >Isn't that the series that started with _The Star Conquerors_. one
> > > >> >of the original Winston juveniles?
> > > >> >
> > > >> I believe so, yes. To me, that was up there with _Space Cadet_,
> > > >> _Raiders From The Rings_ &_The Zero Stone_. I've never had the courage
> > > >> to re-read as an adult given the abuse (including from Bova iirc) it gets.
> > > >
> > > >Ben Bova is criticizing his own story? I thought is was a good, young adult
> > > >space opera. What doesn't he like about it?
> > > >
> > > I could be wrong, but I thought he was on record as being kind of
> > > embarrassed by its first-novelness.
> > Fairly common I would have thought. I recall Lawrence Watt-Evans saying something similar about an early novel of his.
> And Clarke rewrote "Against the fall of night" as "The city and the stars". Later, though, he was not entirely sure
> which was better.
>
> Outside the field, Stephen Jay Gould mused about buying up and burning all copies of his first collection of
> essays.

I have read similar things about Jane Fonda and copies of _Barbarella_. This never works;
the law of supply and demand causes the price to rise exponentially as the number of copies
remaining in circulation declines.

Peter Wezeman
anti-social Darwinist

On Tue, 8 Nov 2022 14:58:04 -0800 (PST), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
<peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:

>On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 2:28:25 PM UTC-6, William Hyde wrote:
>> On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 10:19:48 PM UTC-5, Moriarty wrote:
>> > On Tuesday, November 8, 2022 at 1:54:06 PM UTC+11, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> > > In article <1ba826c6-fa44-41fa...@googlegroups.com>,
>> > > peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 7:21:05 PM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> > > >> In article <ecddd432-7243-4ca7...@googlegroups.com>,
>> > > >> peterw...@hotmail.com <peterw...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >> >On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:47:03 AM UTC-6, Ted Nolan <tednolan> wrote:
>> > > >> >> In article <tkb3ii$3jm2r$1...@dont-email.me>,
>> > > >> >> Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > >> >> >I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
>> > > >> >> ><https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> >Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
>> > > >> >> >don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?
>> > > >> >> >
>> > > >> >> This is unhelpful, but going by Google, I can see this is apparently
>> > > >> >> *not* related to his first series, which had hostile weather machines
>> > > >> >> on Titan, which threw Earth into an ice-age, taking down the Neanderthals,
>> > > >> >> who apparently had already achieved space travel, iirc.
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> >Isn't that the series that started with _The Star Conquerors_. one
>> > > >> >of the original Winston juveniles?
>> > > >> >
>> > > >> I believe so, yes. To me, that was up there with _Space Cadet_,
>> > > >> _Raiders From The Rings_ &_The Zero Stone_. I've never had the courage
>> > > >> to re-read as an adult given the abuse (including from Bova iirc) it gets.
>> > > >
>> > > >Ben Bova is criticizing his own story? I thought is was a good, young adult
>> > > >space opera. What doesn't he like about it?
>> > > >
>> > > I could be wrong, but I thought he was on record as being kind of
>> > > embarrassed by its first-novelness.
>> > Fairly common I would have thought. I recall Lawrence Watt-Evans saying something similar about an early novel of his.
>> And Clarke rewrote "Against the fall of night" as "The city and the stars". Later, though, he was not entirely sure
>> which was better.
>>
>> Outside the field, Stephen Jay Gould mused about buying up and burning all copies of his first collection of
>> essays.
>
>I have read similar things about Jane Fonda and copies of _Barbarella_. This never works;
>the law of supply and demand causes the price to rise exponentially as the number of copies
>remaining in circulation declines.

A quick check shows it on Amazon Prime Video
([https://www.amazon.com/Barbarella-Jane-Fonda/dp/B000JZ68FM/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1C4DUDUAWAQ38&keywords=barbarella+1968&qid=1668011770&s=instant-video&sprefix=barbarella%2Cinstant-video%2C298&sr=1-1])
which makes buying up all the copies impossible because there are
potentially an infinite number of them.

It can also be found on and both Blu Ray and DVD
([https://www.amazon.com/Barbarella-BDD-15-Jane-Fonda/dp/B007Q1GKNC/ref=sr_1_4?crid=1FF40ABJZTS19&keywords=barbarella+1968&qid=1668011870&s=movies-tv&sprefix=barbarella+1968%2Cmovies-tv%2C129&sr=1-4]).
The latter also shows two Laserdisk (!) options, one used and one new.
Also,
[https://www.amazon.com/Barbarella-VHS-Jane-Fonda/dp/6300216047/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2NSY4IN4XLGIM&keywords=barbarella+vhs&qid=1668011989&s=movies-tv&sprefix=barbarella+vhs%2Cmovies-tv%2C135&sr=1-1]
has no less than /six/ VHS tapes of it available.

--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On 02 Nov 2022, Charles Packer wrote
(in article <%mp8L.4888$1449.352@fx14.iad>):

> Is there any SF writing that posits that the earth's weather has
> been brought under complete human control? It would seem that
> something like that would be thought of sooner or later by minds
> pondering the future.

‘Weather War’, William E. Cochrane, novelette, Sept 76 Analog. Mode the
cover. Artificially generated hurricanes, oh my.

‘Thor Meets Captain America’, David Brin. The assorted gods of Asgard are
summoned, somehow, by Nazis in late 1944. All except Loki side with the
Nazis; Loki departs for the Western Hemisphere. There’s a rematch involving
flying submarines and a cranked up US Army O-3. Brin is... excessively
sarcastic.

On 07/11/2022 08.09, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
> I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
> <https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
>
> Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
> don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?

Since nobody else stepped up to the plate, I read it yesterday.

It's a story about a tech startup. The funding comes from the sale of
commercial weather forecasts with an extremely high accuracy. The
long-term objective of the startup (or at least the guy who, on today's
org charts, would be CTO) is to develop weather control.

Since the OP was seeking settings with the weather under complete control,
this doesn't fit the requests.

Not too bad a look at the future. Its setting includes self-driving cars
and mobile phones. Of course, it also includes travel by sub-orbital rockets
and those extremely accurate weather forecasts, so not batting 100%.

But Bova was always a competent mid-lister.

Spoiler: The narrator doesn't get the girl.

--
Michael F. Stemper
87.3% of all statistics are made up by the person giving them.

On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 14:52:43 -0600, Michael F. Stemper wrote:

> On 07/11/2022 08.09, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>> I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
>> <https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
>>
>> Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
>> don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?
>
> Since nobody else stepped up to the plate, I read it yesterday.
>
> It's a story about a tech startup. The funding comes from the sale of
> commercial weather forecasts with an extremely high accuracy. The
> long-term objective of the startup (or at least the guy who, on today's
> org charts, would be CTO) is to develop weather control.
>
> Since the OP was seeking settings with the weather under complete
> control, this doesn't fit the requests.
>

Does the story go into the actual mechanics of how weather might be
controlled?

On 10/11/2022 02.17, Charles Packer wrote:
> On Wed, 09 Nov 2022 14:52:43 -0600, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>
>> On 07/11/2022 08.09, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
>>> I just remembered the existence of _The Weathermakers_, by Ben Bova.
>>> <https://www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?12113>
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, it has been over thirty years since I read it, so I
>>> don't really remember anything about it. Can anybody else chime in?
>>
>> Since nobody else stepped up to the plate, I read it yesterday.
>>
>> It's a story about a tech startup. The funding comes from the sale of
>> commercial weather forecasts with an extremely high accuracy. The
>> long-term objective of the startup (or at least the guy who, on today's
>> org charts, would be CTO) is to develop weather control.
>>
>> Since the OP was seeking settings with the weather under complete
>> control, this doesn't fit the requests.
>
> Does the story go into the actual mechanics of how weather might be
> controlled?

Not really, no. There's a little bit about injecting energy (from military
lasers) at the right spots and maybe some seeding. All of these could be
precisely targeted due to the amazingly accurate weather forecasts.

But Bova was too smart to give specifics.

--
Michael F. Stemper
The name of the story is "A Sound of Thunder".
It was written by Ray Bradbury. You're welcome.