"All Systems Red (The Murderbot Diaries, 1)" by Martha Wells
https://www.amazon.com/All-Systems-Red-Murderbot-Diaries/dp/1250214718/

Book number one of a seven book series of science fiction novellas. I
reread the well printed and well bound hardcover published by Tor in
2017 that I bought new from Amazon. I purchased the hardcover since it
was cheaper than the trade paperback. This novella won the 2018 Hugo,
Nebula, Alex, and Locus awards. The series won the 2021 Hugo for the
best series also. I have all six books in the series and am eagerly
awaiting the seventh book to be released in November 2023.

Murderbot is a SecUnit, similar to a T-800 Terminator with a cloned and
severely modified human head. There is a human brain in there but it is
run by the AIs embedded in its genderless torso. There are lungs, there
is a blood mixture with a synthetic, there is human skin over the entire
body, there is a face. Everything else is machine. Somehow, the blood
is enriched with electricity as there is no stomach or intestines. But,
there are arteries and veins to keep the skin and brain alive. All of
the major arteries and veins have clamps to stop bleeding in case of
damage. There is a MedSystem computer with an AI, a HubUnit computer
with an AI, and a governor module that can force the SecUnit to follow
orders using pain sensors in the brain. It has a energy gun in each arm
and several cameras, all directly wired to the brain. The SecUnit can
sustain severe damage to everything but the head and still survive.

Murderbot is a self named SecUnit due to an unfortunate circumstance
with 57 miners on a remote moon. It has hacked its governor and no
longer allows the governor to give it orders or inflict pain. It
prefers to internally watch its 35,000 hours of downloaded media such as
episodes of "The Rise and Fall of Sanctuary Moon" and "Lineages of the
Sun". Even though it has a face, it does not like to interface with
humans, yes, very introverted. It will follow human orders if it see
fit to do so.

Murderbot is on security duty for a group of scientists from
Preservation planet that are considering buying into a new exploration
planet. There is another group across an ocean also looking at the
planet but they are not responding to their calls. So, Dr. Mensah takes
a few people and Murderbot to investigate.

Quotes from the book:
1. "Yes, talk to Murderbot about its feelings. The idea was so painful I
dropped to 97 percent efficiency."
2. "I hate having emotions about reality; I’d much rather have them
about Sanctuary Moon."
3. "The sense of urgency just wasn’t there. Also, you may have noticed,
I don’t care."

Warning: The violence is graphic and extreme. Murderbot also has a
potty mouth. Books one through four are a series of novellas, not
regular length books. There is a short story "Home: Habitat, Range,
Niche, Territory" between books four and five. Book five is a regular
length novel, book six is back to the novella, and book seven is a full
length novel due out in November 2023. You can buy collections of the
first four hardbacks or all six currently available hardbacks.
https://www.tor.com/2021/04/19/home-habitat-range-niche-territory-martha-wells/

The author has a website at:
https://www.marthawells.com/

There is a wiki for Murderbot including various episodes of "The Rise
and Fall of Sanctuary Moon":
https://murderbot.fandom.com/wiki/Murderbot_Wiki
and
https://murderbot.fandom.com/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Sanctuary_Moon

My rating: 6 out of 5 stars
Amazon rating: 4.4 out of 5 stars (40,197 reviews)

Lynn

Lynn McGuire wrote:

>"All Systems Red (The Murderbot Diaries, 1)" by Martha Wells

>Book number one of a seven book series of science fiction novellas.

Why this one again?

>Warning: The violence is graphic and extreme.

I still dispute this. While there are action sequences with some
violence, I don't find it either graphic or extreme. Almost all is
SecUnits fighting, so mostly mechanicals.

If you think this is graphic or extreme, then you haven't read books
with with actual extreme violence.

> Murderbot also has a potty mouth.

Again, other than occasional F-bomb use, not really. In this book, it
said "fucking" exactly once. The same as two other characters. It said
some variant of "shit" seven times, including adjectives like shitshow.
Unless you're talking about a cozy mystery, that's pretty for modern
literature.

Brian

On 7/8/2023 11:39 PM, Default User wrote:
> Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
>> "All Systems Red (The Murderbot Diaries, 1)" by Martha Wells
>
>> Book number one of a seven book series of science fiction novellas.
>
> Why this one again?
>
>> Warning: The violence is graphic and extreme.
>
> I still dispute this. While there are action sequences with some
> violence, I don't find it either graphic or extreme. Almost all is
> SecUnits fighting, so mostly mechanicals.
>
> If you think this is graphic or extreme, then you haven't read books
> with with actual extreme violence.
>
>> Murderbot also has a potty mouth.
>
> Again, other than occasional F-bomb use, not really. In this book, it
> said "f***ing" exactly once. The same as two other characters. It said
> some variant of "s***" seven times, including adjectives like s***show.
> Unless you're talking about a cozy mystery, that's pretty for modern
> literature.
>
>
>
> Brian

Because I read it again. Novellas, they go fast.

Lynn

On 7/8/2023 6:20 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> "All Systems Red (The Murderbot Diaries, 1)" by Martha Wells
>    https://www.amazon.com/All-Systems-Red-Murderbot-Diaries/dp/1250214718/
>
> Book number one of a seven book series of science fiction novellas.  I
> reread the well printed and well bound hardcover published by Tor in
> 2017 that I bought new from Amazon.  I purchased the hardcover since it
> was cheaper than the trade paperback.  This novella won the 2018 Hugo,
> Nebula, Alex, and Locus awards.  The series won the 2021 Hugo for the
> best series also.  I have all six books in the series and am eagerly
> awaiting the seventh book to be released in November 2023.
>
> Murderbot is a SecUnit, similar to a T-800 Terminator with a cloned and
> severely modified human head.  There is a human brain in there but it is
> run by the AIs embedded in its genderless torso.  There are lungs, there
> is a blood mixture with a synthetic, there is human skin over the entire
> body, there is a face.  Everything else is machine.  Somehow, the blood
> is enriched with electricity as there is no stomach or intestines.  But,
> there are arteries and veins to keep the skin and brain alive.  All of
> the major arteries and veins have clamps to stop bleeding in case of
> damage.  There is a MedSystem computer with an AI, a HubUnit computer
> with an AI, and a governor module that can force the SecUnit to follow
> orders using pain sensors in the brain.  It has a energy gun in each arm
> and several cameras, all directly wired to the brain.  The SecUnit can
> sustain severe damage to everything but the head and still survive.
>
> Murderbot is a self named SecUnit due to an unfortunate circumstance
> with 57 miners on a remote moon.  It has hacked its governor and no
> longer allows the governor to give it orders or inflict pain.  It
> prefers to internally watch its 35,000 hours of downloaded media such as
> episodes of "The Rise and Fall of Sanctuary Moon" and "Lineages of the
> Sun".  Even though it has a face, it does not like to interface with
> humans, yes, very introverted.  It will follow human orders if it see
> fit to do so.
>
> Murderbot is on security duty for a group of scientists from
> Preservation planet that are considering buying into a new exploration
> planet.  There is another group across an ocean also looking at the
> planet but they are not responding to their calls.  So, Dr. Mensah takes
> a few people and Murderbot to investigate.
>
> Quotes from the book:
> 1. "Yes, talk to Murderbot about its feelings. The idea was so painful I
> dropped to 97 percent efficiency."
> 2. "I hate having emotions about reality; I’d much rather have them
> about Sanctuary Moon."
> 3. "The sense of urgency just wasn’t there. Also, you may have noticed,
> I don’t care."
>
> Warning: The violence is graphic and extreme.  Murderbot also has a
> potty mouth.  Books one through four are a series of novellas, not
> regular length books.  There is a short story "Home: Habitat, Range,
> Niche, Territory" between books four and five.  Book five is a regular
> length novel, book six is back to the novella, and book seven is a full
> length novel due out in November 2023.  You can buy collections of the
> first four hardbacks or all six currently available hardbacks.
>
> https://www.tor.com/2021/04/19/home-habitat-range-niche-territory-martha-wells/
>
> The author has a website at:
>    https://www.marthawells.com/
>
> There is a wiki for Murderbot including various episodes of "The Rise
> and Fall of Sanctuary Moon":
>    https://murderbot.fandom.com/wiki/Murderbot_Wiki
> and
>    https://murderbot.fandom.com/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Sanctuary_Moon
>
> My rating:  6 out of 5 stars
> Amazon rating:  4.4 out of 5 stars (40,197 reviews)
>
> Lynn

BTW, I just realized a uniqueness of the SecUnits. There are three AIs
in addition to the cloned human brain. I do not recall any other robot
/ cyborg / etc that has more than one AI. Plus a human brain.
Murderbot does mention that SecUnits are very expensive. I suspect that
CombatUnits are even more so since they are much larger and have much
more equipment.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire wrote:

>BTW, I just realized a uniqueness of the SecUnits. There are three
>AIs in addition to the cloned human brain. I do not recall any other
>robot / cyborg / etc that has more than one AI. Plus a human brain.
>Murderbot does mention that SecUnits are very expensive. I suspect
>that CombatUnits are even more so since they are much larger and have
>much more equipment.

My impression was that his computer brain was multi-processing not
separate AIs. At one point MB refers to it as "multi-track processing".

Brian

On Sunday, 9 July 2023 at 21:36:39 UTC+1, Lynn McGuire wrote:
> BTW, I just realized a uniqueness of the SecUnits. There are three AIs
> in addition to the cloned human brain. I do not recall any other robot
> / cyborg / etc that has more than one AI. Plus a human brain.
> Murderbot does mention that SecUnits are very expensive. I suspect that
> CombatUnits are even more so since they are much larger and have much
> more equipment.

Yes - this guy, in various versions, usually has one
computer brain and maybe half a meat brain. They chat.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deathlok>
I don't see the name explained; probably it sounds
scary, there was a somewhat successful character
named Warlock, and the development title "Cyborg"
was (already) taken by the novel that became
television's _The Six Million Dollar Man_
Like "RoboCop", Deathlok's computer can override
the meat. DC Comics' later "Cyborg" also has one
computer brain, I think, but he's also had a virus in it
one or more times.

I wonder if it's still believed that certain dinosaurs
had a secondary brain to manage their rear end.

So does this bio-mechanical murder machine.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fury_(Marvel_Comics)>
Mainly a throwaway line when an opponent bamboozled
its primary brain: it just switched to the spare...

We're supposed to have a lot going on neurologically
in our bowels - especially when that fellow shows up.

There's the "Combiner" Transformers.
<https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Combiner>
"A long-standing anime trope."

Stretching the point, this chap
<https://britishcomics.fandom.com/wiki/Rogue_Trooper_(Rogue)>
is a "Genetic Infantryman" clone soldier betrayed in a
human war for distant planet Nu Earth. Instead of
identification dog tags (I think), these characters have
a brain-backup "biochip" in which their mind survives
after death. By the telling here, Rogue takes the
biochips combined with equipment of three dead friends
to rescue and restore them and to be helped by them
while hunting for the Traitor General; Helm, Gunnar,
and Bagman. Which equipment will be absurdly
obvious. It would match your case better, I think,
if Rogue was putting the chips in his own equipment,
and I had assumed that was the case.

On 7/10/2023 12:59 AM, Default User wrote:
> Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
>
>> BTW, I just realized a uniqueness of the SecUnits. There are three
>> AIs in addition to the cloned human brain. I do not recall any other
>> robot / cyborg / etc that has more than one AI. Plus a human brain.
>> Murderbot does mention that SecUnits are very expensive. I suspect
>> that CombatUnits are even more so since they are much larger and have
>> much more equipment.
>
> My impression was that his computer brain was multi-processing not
> separate AIs. At one point MB refers to it as "multi-track processing".
>
>
> Brian

I think that the multi-track processing was referring to MB's feed, its
stack of incoming messages from various other generators.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire wrote:

>On 7/10/2023 12:59 AM, Default User wrote:
>>Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>>
>>>BTW, I just realized a uniqueness of the SecUnits. There are
>>>three AIs in addition to the cloned human brain. I do not recall
>>>any other robot / cyborg / etc that has more than one AI. Plus a
>>>human brain. Murderbot does mention that SecUnits are very
>>>expensive. I suspect that CombatUnits are even more so since
>>>they are much larger and have much more equipment.
>>
>>My impression was that his computer brain was multi-processing not
>>separate AIs. At one point MB refers to it as "multi-track
>>processing".

>I think that the multi-track processing was referring to MB's feed,
>its stack of incoming messages from various other generators.

No, MB made it clear that it could multi-process. That's why it could
do things, like control swarms of drones while doing other things, that
humams couldn't.

I certainly don't recall anything about three separate AIs.

Brian

Robert Carnegie wrote:

>On Sunday, 9 July 2023 at 21:36:39 UTC+1, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>> BTW, I just realized a uniqueness of the SecUnits. There are three
>>AIs in addition to the cloned human brain. I do not recall any
>>other robot / cyborg / etc that has more than one AI. Plus a human
>>brain.

>Yes - this guy, in various versions, usually has one
>computer brain and maybe half a meat brain. They chat.

It's not that way with Murderbot. MB even makes it clear that it isn't
a bot portion and a human portion, it's all one integrated whole.

"It’s wrong to think of a construct as half bot, half human. It makes
it sound like the halves are discrete, like the bot half should want to
obey orders and do its job and the human half should want to protect
itself and get the hell out of here. As opposed to the reality, which
was that I was one whole confused entity, with no idea what I wanted to
do." -- All Systems Red

There are no indications of separate minds with their own
consciousness. MB does have modules, like Risk Assessment and Threat
Assessment that run and generate reports, but aren't AIs in any real
sense.

Brian

On 7/10/2023 2:22 PM, Default User wrote:
> Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
>> On 7/10/2023 12:59 AM, Default User wrote:
>>> Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> BTW, I just realized a uniqueness of the SecUnits. There are
>>>> three AIs in addition to the cloned human brain. I do not recall
>>>> any other robot / cyborg / etc that has more than one AI. Plus a
>>>> human brain. Murderbot does mention that SecUnits are very
>>>> expensive. I suspect that CombatUnits are even more so since
>>>> they are much larger and have much more equipment.
>>>
>>> My impression was that his computer brain was multi-processing not
>>> separate AIs. At one point MB refers to it as "multi-track
>>> processing".
>
>> I think that the multi-track processing was referring to MB's feed,
>> its stack of incoming messages from various other generators.
>
> No, MB made it clear that it could multi-process. That's why it could
> do things, like control swarms of drones while doing other things, that
> humams couldn't.
>
> I certainly don't recall anything about three separate AIs.
>
>
> Brian

It was inferred by me. And MB can definitely multi-process. I see the
human brain as the controller and the three AIs as information
processors. Except the Governor AI, that seems to have a reboot and
stop control over the human brain.

Lynn

Lynn McGuire wrote:

>On 7/10/2023 2:22 PM, Default User wrote:

>>I certainly don't recall anything about three separate AIs.

>It was inferred by me. And MB can definitely multi-process. I see
>the human brain as the controller and the three AIs as information
>processors. Except the Governor AI, that seems to have a reboot and
>stop control over the human brain.

I don't get that at all from readings. Again, the idea of separate
anything isn't right, Murderbot says so. It's not something really to
get hung up on though.

Brian

On 11/07/23 12:20, Default User wrote:
> Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
>> On 7/10/2023 2:22 PM, Default User wrote:
>
>>> I certainly don't recall anything about three separate AIs.
>
>> It was inferred by me. And MB can definitely multi-process. I see
>> the human brain as the controller and the three AIs as information
>> processors. Except the Governor AI, that seems to have a reboot and
>> stop control over the human brain.
>
> I don't get that at all from readings. Again, the idea of separate
> anything isn't right, Murderbot says so. It's not something really to
> get hung up on though.

I would second a motion to hang McGuire*.

But am fascinated by the continuous flow of posts correcting his
interpretations, comprehension or memory as above.

*Upside down for awhile.

Titus G wrote:

>On 11/07/23 12:20, Default User wrote:

>> I don't get that at all from readings. Again, the idea of separate
>> anything isn't right, Murderbot says so. It's not something really
>>to get hung up on though.
>
>I would second a motion to hang McGuire*.
>
>But am fascinated by the continuous flow of posts correcting his
>interpretations, comprehension or memory as above.
>
>*Upside down for awhile.

Heh. I'm less concerned about this than I am about the comments that
make it seem like the books are gory cussfests. Which they aren't. Some
might be disappointed at that. But really I don't want people to avoid
them because of misaprehension.

I had a mistaken idea about them from comments I read and avoided from
for a long time, until I saw them on a space opera list and
investigated them. So I'm sensitive.

I also don't know why much of the review needs to be details of a
SecUnit's construction.

Brian

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 03:17:28 -0000 (UTC), "Default User"
<defaultuserbr@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Titus G wrote:
>
>>On 11/07/23 12:20, Default User wrote:
>
>>> I don't get that at all from readings. Again, the idea of separate
>>> anything isn't right, Murderbot says so. It's not something really
>>>to get hung up on though.
>>
>>I would second a motion to hang McGuire*.
>>
>>But am fascinated by the continuous flow of posts correcting his
>>interpretations, comprehension or memory as above.
>>
>>*Upside down for awhile.
>
>Heh. I'm less concerned about this than I am about the comments that
>make it seem like the books are gory cussfests. Which they aren't. Some
>might be disappointed at that. But really I don't want people to avoid
>them because of misaprehension.
>
>I had a mistaken idea about them from comments I read and avoided from
>for a long time, until I saw them on a space opera list and
>investigated them. So I'm sensitive.
>
>I also don't know why much of the review needs to be details of a
>SecUnit's construction.

Way back when the justification for Science Fictional ("Scientific
Fabulation") was that it would attract young males who could then be
subjected to scientific explanations and so were educational.

IOW, long passages of gibberish explaining how the hyperdrive or
whatever worked were /de rigeur/.

So, maybe this is a continuation of that tradition.
--
"In this connexion, unquestionably the most significant
development was the disintegration, under Christian
influence, of classical conceptions of the family and
of family right."

On 7/12/2023 10:17 PM, Default User wrote:
> Titus G wrote:
>
>> On 11/07/23 12:20, Default User wrote:
>
>>> I don't get that at all from readings. Again, the idea of separate
>>> anything isn't right, Murderbot says so. It's not something really
>>> to get hung up on though.
>>
>> I would second a motion to hang McGuire*.
>>
>> But am fascinated by the continuous flow of posts correcting his
>> interpretations, comprehension or memory as above.
>>
>> *Upside down for awhile.
>
> Heh. I'm less concerned about this than I am about the comments that
> make it seem like the books are gory cussfests. Which they aren't. Some
> might be disappointed at that. But really I don't want people to avoid
> them because of misaprehension.
>
> I had a mistaken idea about them from comments I read and avoided from
> for a long time, until I saw them on a space opera list and
> investigated them. So I'm sensitive.
>
> I also don't know why much of the review needs to be details of a
> SecUnit's construction.
>
>
> Brian

I spent time on the SecUnit construction because I am interested in how
things are built. I am after all, a degreed and professionally licensed
Mechanical Engineer. It took me several revisions before I got to the
explanation that I have now and, I am not convinced that I have
everything correct now.

I do think that there is a cpu for each of the three AIs embedded in the
SecUnit, merely from a security standpoint. The best way to ensure
computational security is and always will be, an air gap. Of course,
the fact that MB can reprogram its governor shows that there is a
security problem, so maybe all three AIs do run on the same cpu.

I will try to add something in my reviews that the books are not gory
cussfests. BTW, there are people on reddit pushing The Murderbox
Diaries on to young teens which I think to be too soon, the MB books are
young adult at best, not young teen. That said, I would have read them
at age 10 or so, given the chance. I am fairly sure that I read "I Will
Fear No Evil" at age 12 or 13.

Lynn

In article <u8qfs6$3u91l$1@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>I do think that there is a cpu for each of the three AIs embedded in the
>SecUnit, merely from a security standpoint. The best way to ensure
>computational security is and always will be, an air gap. Of course,
>the fact that MB can reprogram its governor shows that there is a
>security problem, so maybe all three AIs do run on the same cpu.

(Hal Heydt)
You didn't consider the possibility of an--even now--multicore
processor? There're so common that even a $35 Raspberry Pi has 4
processor cores in the SoC, and has had for 3 generations so far.

On 7/13/2023 11:04 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <u8qfs6$3u91l$1@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I do think that there is a cpu for each of the three AIs embedded in the
>> SecUnit, merely from a security standpoint. The best way to ensure
>> computational security is and always will be, an air gap. Of course,
>> the fact that MB can reprogram its governor shows that there is a
>> security problem, so maybe all three AIs do run on the same cpu.
>
> (Hal Heydt)
> You didn't consider the possibility of an--even now--multicore
> processor? There're so common that even a $35 Raspberry Pi has 4
> processor cores in the SoC, and has had for 3 generations so far.

Oh yes. But running on a dedicated single core with no interactions
with other cores / processes is difficult. Again, I am thinking of this
from the security aspect. Of course, MB is set 300+ years in the future
and they may have solved all of these mundane cpu security problems that
we are having now.

BTW, one of my friends is server programmer for a computer hardware
company based in central Texas. They are shipping a server built with
64 ? or 128 ? core Xeon cpus for AI programming and experimentation.
Bring your big checkbook, the price starts at five digits. If you want
a dozen H100 coprocessors then the price approaches six digits.

Lynn

In article <u8qj35$3ugnn$1@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>On 7/13/2023 11:04 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <u8qfs6$3u91l$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I do think that there is a cpu for each of the three AIs embedded in the
>>> SecUnit, merely from a security standpoint. The best way to ensure
>>> computational security is and always will be, an air gap. Of course,
>>> the fact that MB can reprogram its governor shows that there is a
>>> security problem, so maybe all three AIs do run on the same cpu.
>>
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> You didn't consider the possibility of an--even now--multicore
>> processor? They're so common that even a $35 Raspberry Pi has 4
>> processor cores in the SoC, and has had for 3 generations so far.
>
>Oh yes. But running on a dedicated single core with no interactions
>with other cores / processes is difficult. Again, I am thinking of this
>from the security aspect. Of course, MB is set 300+ years in the future
>and they may have solved all of these mundane cpu security problems that
>we are having now.
>
>BTW, one of my friends is server programmer for a computer hardware
>company based in central Texas. They are shipping a server built with
>64 ? or 128 ? core Xeon cpus for AI programming and experimentation.
>Bring your big checkbook, the price starts at five digits. If you want
>a dozen H100 coprocessors then the price approaches six digits.

(Hal Heydt)
I'm aware of the high core count processor packages. IIRC, AMD
is running more cores that Intel does. Plus there is some
company with--again, IIRC--192 ARM cores (and it might be more by
now) in a single package.

Looking relatively far back, I built a dual-cpu system in 2002
using a pair of AMD Opteron-240 chips. Biggest single expense
was the $500 for 2GB of ECC DDR RAM.

Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> writes:
>On 7/13/2023 11:04 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>> In article <u8qfs6$3u91l$1@dont-email.me>,
>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I do think that there is a cpu for each of the three AIs embedded in the
>>> SecUnit, merely from a security standpoint. The best way to ensure
>>> computational security is and always will be, an air gap. Of course,
>>> the fact that MB can reprogram its governor shows that there is a
>>> security problem, so maybe all three AIs do run on the same cpu.
>>
>> (Hal Heydt)
>> You didn't consider the possibility of an--even now--multicore
>> processor? There're so common that even a $35 Raspberry Pi has 4
>> processor cores in the SoC, and has had for 3 generations so far.
>
>Oh yes. But running on a dedicated single core with no interactions
>with other cores / processes is difficult.

But we do it all the time.... It's pretty simple, really. Perhaps
you need to use something other than windows. Every current modern
server grade (or for that matter laptop) processor has dedicated microprocessors
for security and management (fan speeds, blinking leds) that operate
completely independently of the cores running the host operating system.
AMD, Intel et alia all do that.

>BTW, one of my friends is server programmer for a computer hardware

We build a processors with high core counts (100-ish). They're not difficult
to use or program.

>company based in central Texas. They are shipping a server built with
>64 ? or 128 ? core Xeon cpus for AI programming and experimentation.
>Bring your big checkbook, the price starts at five digits. If you want
>a dozen H100 coprocessors then the price approaches six digits.

Then there is 'Frontier', with 561,644 cores...

On Thu, 13 Jul 2023 22:36:35 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 7/12/2023 10:17 PM, Default User wrote:
>> Titus G wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/07/23 12:20, Default User wrote:
>>
>>>> I don't get that at all from readings. Again, the idea of separate
>>>> anything isn't right, Murderbot says so. It's not something really
>>>> to get hung up on though.
>>>
>>> I would second a motion to hang McGuire*.
>>>
>>> But am fascinated by the continuous flow of posts correcting his
>>> interpretations, comprehension or memory as above.
>>>
>>> *Upside down for awhile.
>>
>> Heh. I'm less concerned about this than I am about the comments that
>> make it seem like the books are gory cussfests. Which they aren't. Some
>> might be disappointed at that. But really I don't want people to avoid
>> them because of misaprehension.
>>
>> I had a mistaken idea about them from comments I read and avoided from
>> for a long time, until I saw them on a space opera list and
>> investigated them. So I'm sensitive.
>>
>> I also don't know why much of the review needs to be details of a
>> SecUnit's construction.
>>
>>
>> Brian
>
>I spent time on the SecUnit construction because I am interested in how
>things are built. I am after all, a degreed and professionally licensed
>Mechanical Engineer. It took me several revisions before I got to the
>explanation that I have now and, I am not convinced that I have
>everything correct now.
>
>I do think that there is a cpu for each of the three AIs embedded in the
>SecUnit, merely from a security standpoint. The best way to ensure
>computational security is and always will be, an air gap. Of course,
>the fact that MB can reprogram its governor shows that there is a
>security problem, so maybe all three AIs do run on the same cpu.
>
>I will try to add something in my reviews that the books are not gory
>cussfests. BTW, there are people on reddit pushing The Murderbox
>Diaries on to young teens which I think to be too soon, the MB books are
>young adult at best, not young teen. That said, I would have read them
>at age 10 or so, given the chance. I am fairly sure that I read "I Will
>Fear No Evil" at age 12 or 13.

You think /The Hunger Games/ was aimed at young adults (18-22, say)?

/I/ think they were aimed at 12-year-old girls who could thrill at the
thought of being as brave as Katniss when they reached 16.
--
"Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

On 7/14/2023 12:20 AM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
> In article <u8qj35$3ugnn$1@dont-email.me>,
> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 7/13/2023 11:04 PM, Dorothy J Heydt wrote:
>>> In article <u8qfs6$3u91l$1@dont-email.me>,
>>> Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> I do think that there is a cpu for each of the three AIs embedded in the
>>>> SecUnit, merely from a security standpoint. The best way to ensure
>>>> computational security is and always will be, an air gap. Of course,
>>>> the fact that MB can reprogram its governor shows that there is a
>>>> security problem, so maybe all three AIs do run on the same cpu.
>>>
>>> (Hal Heydt)
>>> You didn't consider the possibility of an--even now--multicore
>>> processor? They're so common that even a $35 Raspberry Pi has 4
>>> processor cores in the SoC, and has had for 3 generations so far.
>>
>> Oh yes. But running on a dedicated single core with no interactions
>> with other cores / processes is difficult. Again, I am thinking of this
>>from the security aspect. Of course, MB is set 300+ years in the future
>> and they may have solved all of these mundane cpu security problems that
>> we are having now.
>>
>> BTW, one of my friends is server programmer for a computer hardware
>> company based in central Texas. They are shipping a server built with
>> 64 ? or 128 ? core Xeon cpus for AI programming and experimentation.
>> Bring your big checkbook, the price starts at five digits. If you want
>> a dozen H100 coprocessors then the price approaches six digits.
>
> (Hal Heydt)
> I'm aware of the high core count processor packages. IIRC, AMD
> is running more cores that Intel does. Plus there is some
> company with--again, IIRC--192 ARM cores (and it might be more by
> now) in a single package.
>
> Looking relatively far back, I built a dual-cpu system in 2002
> using a pair of AMD Opteron-240 chips. Biggest single expense
> was the $500 for 2GB of ECC DDR RAM.

I think that AMD has a 256 core Threadripper cpu now. Or it is
announced. I am way behind on my Maximum PC magazine and it just went
out of print.

I built a dual cpu Opteron system about that time also and ran a beta
version of Windows XP x64 on it (I don't think it ever got out of beta).
I had severe device driver problems for it, about a half dozen items
were continually screaming at me about the device drivers continuously
crashing. And, the fans on the Opterons were always running at full
speed, sounded like a helicopter taking off. I used plain old ram,
maybe 4 GB on it. Been a long time since I did that so some of the
details are sketchy now.

The noise bothered me so much that I built another Intel single cpu
system and used that for my desktop and relegated the dual Opteron to
server duty. I have built over a hundred PCs over the years, no more.
I am buying Dell systems now, I have given up. It used to be that the
quality of parts was better than fully built PCs, that has gone away in
the race to the bottom.

Lynn

In article <u8sb1t$49nu$1@dont-email.me>,
Lynn McGuire <lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
>I think that AMD has a 256 core Threadripper cpu now. Or it is
>announced. I am way behind on my Maximum PC magazine and it just went
>out of print.

(Hal Heydt)
Not exactly. MaxPC has gone on-line only. But, then, it was
never the same after it quite being named "boot".

>I built a dual cpu Opteron system about that time also and ran a beta
>version of Windows XP x64 on it (I don't think it ever got out of beta).
> I had severe device driver problems for it, about a half dozen items
>were continually screaming at me about the device drivers continuously
>crashing. And, the fans on the Opterons were always running at full
>speed, sounded like a helicopter taking off. I used plain old ram,
>maybe 4 GB on it. Been a long time since I did that so some of the
>details are sketchy now.

Mine ran SuSE 64-bit Linux and did so just fine until I replaced
it with a pair of SBCs with SSDs for mass storage (my Opteron systen
had 3 WD Raptor 36GB 10KRPM drives). Two SBCs so I could run a
replicated database. The current config is a pair of Pi4B-4GB
SBCs with a 120GB SATA3 SSD each, connected to the boards over
USB 3.

Opterons didn't support non-ECC RAM.

On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 10:36:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:

> I do think that there is a cpu for each of the three AIs embedded in the
> SecUnit, merely from a security standpoint. The best way to ensure
> computational security is and always will be, an air gap. Of course,
> the fact that MB can reprogram its governor shows that there is a
> security problem, so maybe all three AIs do run on the same cpu.

What "three AIs" are you talking about? Please name them, and present something from the text to support that there is anything but Murderbot itself. The problem is that you state these things as if they were fact when there's no basis.

Brian

On 7/17/2023 2:31 AM, Default User wrote:
> On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 10:36:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>
>> I do think that there is a cpu for each of the three AIs embedded in the
>> SecUnit, merely from a security standpoint. The best way to ensure
>> computational security is and always will be, an air gap. Of course,
>> the fact that MB can reprogram its governor shows that there is a
>> security problem, so maybe all three AIs do run on the same cpu.
>
> What "three AIs" are you talking about? Please name them, and present something from the text to support that there is anything but Murderbot itself. The problem is that you state these things as if they were fact when there's no basis.
>
> Brian

All you had to do was read my original posting.

"Murderbot is a SecUnit, similar to a T-800 Terminator with a cloned and
severely modified human head. There is a human brain in there but it is
run by the AIs embedded in its genderless torso. There are lungs, there
is a blood mixture with a synthetic, there is human skin over the entire
body, there is a face. Everything else is machine. Somehow, the blood
is enriched with electricity as there is no stomach or intestines. But,
there are arteries and veins to keep the skin and brain alive. All of
the major arteries and veins have clamps to stop bleeding in case of
damage. There is a MedSystem computer with an AI, a HubUnit computer
with an AI, and a governor module that can force the SecUnit to follow
orders using pain sensors in the brain. It has a energy gun in each arm
and several cameras, all directly wired to the brain. The SecUnit can
sustain severe damage to everything but the head and still survive."

Lynn

Lynn McGuire wrote:

>On 7/17/2023 2:31 AM, Default User wrote:
>>On Thursday, July 13, 2023 at 10:36:43 PM UTC-5, Lynn McGuire wrote:
>>
>>>I do think that there is a cpu for each of the three AIs embedded
>>>in the SecUnit, merely from a security standpoint. The best way
>>>to ensure computational security is and always will be, an air
>>>gap. Of course, the fact that MB can reprogram its governor shows
>>>that there is a security problem, so maybe all three AIs do run
>>>on the same cpu.
>>
>>What "three AIs" are you talking about? Please name them, and
>>present something from the text to support that there is anything
>>but Murderbot itself. The problem is that you state these things as
>>if they were fact when there's no basis.
>>
>>Brian
>
>All you had to do was read my original posting.

I sure as HELL was not going slog through that giant block of text.

Do you mean HubSystem and MedSystem? Those are EXTERNAL systems, not
part of MurderBot. There is the governor module, but that's not an AI.

Brian