On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 9:21:46 AM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-01 3:55 p.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:52:24 PM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:29:41 PM UTC-4, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> >> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Trolling snipped xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> >>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
> >> Peter has been known to lie sometimes though....
> >
> > Has he?
> >
> > PP or STFU.
> One good example is "Peter's accusation" that you just mentioned. I'm
> just going by memory, but since remember it so well, I don't think I
> have to dig up an old post for you.
>
> "Peter's accusation" was that I took a (claimed) poem of his and
> published it under my own name, with only the character's name, "Batty,"
> changed. As you also should remember, I spent considerable time with you
> on a long thread, showing exactly all the steps in the evolution of
> "Penny, or Penny's Hat," and proving that the alleged plagiarism never
> happened.

Unfortunately, for you, you only ended up supporting Peter's accusation.

You place far too much stock in your "debunking" skills.

I have read both "Betty's" and "Batty's" poems, and there is no *significant* difference between them.

You changed one letter in the title character's name, and one or two words (if that) in each of PJR's lines.

The only distinguishing factor was that PJR's poem only listed a couple of colors, whereas your poem expanded the list of colors into the dozens (hundreds?, thousands?).

But the additional colors did not *significantly* alter the content of the poem. The hat was still red, not yellow, and still Batty's/Betty's.

Here's the proof:

From rec.arts.poems ("Batty / PJR)

On Friday, November 20, 2009 at 7:12:12 PM UTC-5, Peter J Ross wrote:
> Batty's red woollen hat is a good hat.
> It's a hat that isn't yellow, it's just a hat
> that's red. It warms his ears, Batty's ears,
> not mine, not yours.
> --
> PJR :-)
> <http://pjr.lasnobberia.net/verse/>

Then George Dance grabbed the poem for his very own:

On Thursday, November 26, 2009 at 9:53:44 PM UTC-5, George J. Dance wrote:
> On Nov 24, 9:57 pm, Will Dockery <will.dock...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On Nov 24, 9:29 pm, George Dance <georgedanc...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >
> > > Hell, if we get rid of "Batty", we can cut PJ out of the credits, too,
> > > and put you in. (Of course we have to change 'his' to 'her' in the
> > > last line. Let's see what ray thinks.
> >
> > That sounds like an interesting & intelligent idea to me...
> >
> BTW, I checked out Colin's reference, in his 'worst poet' message you
> quoted upthread, "that one of the best online poets around has joined
> this discussion. We are in the presence of greatness, people!" That
> has to be a reference to ray heinrich (who posted onto the thread, but
> didn't pick a worst poet).
> So I'm starting to doubt that ray will be willing to get involved in
> this project. But I'll keep plugging along, nevertheless.
> For this latest edit, I dropped the Dance Mix subtitle, and I added
> more colours: Rice's, then whatever I could remember on my own, then
> the HTML colour names. If you could think of any colours we've missed,
> that would be great, too.
>
> Betty
> Betty's hat is a good hat.
> It's a Red wool hat.
> It isn't Alabaster or Alice Blue
> or Almond or Amber
> or Amethyst or Antique Brass
> or Apple Green or Apricot
> or Aqua or Aquamarine
> or Asparagus or Atomic Tangerine
> or Auburn or Azure
> or Baby Blue or Baby Pink
> or Banana Mania or Beaver
> or Beige or Bittersweet
> or Black or Blizzard Blue
> or Blue or Blue Bell
> or Blue Gray or Blue Green
> or Blue Violet or Blush
> or Brick Red or Bronze
> or Brown or Burgundy
> or Burnt Orange or Burnt Sienna
> or Cadet Blue or Canary
> or Caribbean Green or Carnation Pink
> or Cerise or Cerulean
> or Champagne or Charcoal
> or Chartreuse or Chestnut
> or Chocolate or Cinnamon
> or Claret or Cobalt
> or Copper or Coral
> or Corn or Cornflower
> or Cotton Candy or Cream
> or Cyan or Dandelion
> or Denim or Desert Sand
> or Ebony or Ecru
> or Eggplant or Eggshell
> or Electric Lime or Emerald
> or Fawn or Fern
> or Fire Engine Red or Forest Green
> or Fuchsia or Fuzzy Wuzzy
> or Gold or Goldenrod
> or Granny Smith Apple or Gray
> or Green or Green Blue
> or Green Yellow or Honey Dew
> or Hot Magenta or Hunter Green
> or Inchworm or Indigo
> or Ivory or Jade
> or Jazzberry Jam or Jungle Green
> or Kelly Green or Khaki
> or Laser Lemon or Lavender
> or Lawn Green or Lemon Yellow
> or Lilac or Macaroni and Cheese
> or Magenta or Magnola
> or Magic Mint or Mahogany
> or Maize or Manatee
> or Mango Tango or Maroon
> or Mauvelous or Melon
> or Midnight Blue or Moss Green
> or Mountain Meadow or Mulberry
> or Mustard or Navy Blue
> or Neon Carrot or Ochre
> or Olive Drab or Olive Green
> or Orange or Orange Red
> or Orange Yellow or Orchid
> or Outer Space or Outrageous Orange
> or Pacific Blue or Peach
> or Pear or Pearl
> or Periwinkle or Persimmon
> or Piggy Pink or Pine Green
> or Pink Flamingo or Pink Sherbert
> or Platinum or Plum
> or Power Blue or Primrose
> or Puce or Pumpkin
> or Purple Heart or Purple Mountain's Majesty
> or Purple Pizzazz or Radical Red
> or Raspberry or Raw Sienna
> or Raw Umber or Razzle Dazzle Rose
> or Razzmatazz or Red Orange
> or Red Violet or Robin's Egg Blue
> or Rose or Royal Blue
> or Royal Purple or Ruby
> or Russet or Rust
> or Saffron or Salmon
> or Sapphire or Scarlet
> or Screamin' Green or Sea Green
> or Sepia or Shadow
> or Shamrock or Shocking Pink
> or Silver or Sky Blue
> or Slate or Sorrel
> or Spring Green or Steel Blue
> or Sunglow or Sunset Orange
> or Tan or Taupe
> or Teal Blue or Terracotta
> or Thistle or Tickle Me Pink
> or Timberwolf or Titian
> or Topaz or Tropical Rain Forest
> or Tumbleweed or Turquoise Blue
> or Ultramarine or Umber
> or Unmellow Yellow or Vermilion
> or Violet (Purple) or Violet Blue
> or Violet Red or Vivid Tangerine
> or Vivid Violet or White
> or Wild Blue Yonder or Wild Strawberry
> or Wild Watermelon or Wisteria
> or Yellow or Yellow Green
> or Yellow Orange or Zinnober
> but just a hat that's Red.
> It warms her ears, just Betty's ears.
> poem by ray heinrich, George Dance, & Will Dockery

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.arts.poetry.comments/c/K35lTXRHQZI/m/gnu0G2_wAwAJ?hl=en