George J. Dance wrote:

> On 2022-11-02 9:03 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
>> On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:04:09 AM UTC-4, Zod wrote:
>>> Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, November 1, 2022 at 3:25:28 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 2:11:38 PM UTC-4, Michael Pendragon wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, October 31, 2022 at 12:59:44 PM UTC-4, Will Dockery wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, October 22, 2022 at 5:51:34 AM UTC, george....@yahoo.ca wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs, "Professor"; it's about what the
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the idea the speaker might be a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does your lack of punctuation help your poem?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what they're there for.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six ampersands..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced by &.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced "and." I can understand you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could have Googled.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla, another wannabe online poetry
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with the writer of the poem.."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to forget it so often.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at creativity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it "plagiarized" yet..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid opinion), but *should* she have.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without justification) for
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that.....
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from PJR. And you know that, as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
>>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
>>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having plagiarized it from him.
>>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
>>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
>>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
>>>
>>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and finding it disturbingly convincing.
>>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
>>
>> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
>>
>> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that George Dance would be happy about it.
>>
>> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
>>
>> However, that is precisely what he did

> No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
> alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a story
> that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> usenet).

>> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to improve his reputation.

> Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.

Pendragon has based a bit of his persona on PJR, he wanted to have PJR mentor him, remember?