On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 12:39:54 PM UTC-4, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-02 11:38 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Wednesday, November 2, 2022 at 11:10:16 AM UTC-4,
> george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >> On 2022-11-02 10:25 a.m., Will Dockery wrote:
> >>> George J. Dance wrote:
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> postpoetry
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> although there's nothing left to say
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we're gonna say it anyway
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a reader doesn't read
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll call him something we don't need
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a critic calls it shit
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we won't believe a word of it
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if a poet points that out
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we'll just ignore it & we'll shout
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> about her frogs and trees and birds
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> so we won't have to read her words
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or better yet let's write of war
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and fill a page or two with gore
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> some reeking flesh a severed head
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & maggots feasting on the dead
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> & if perchance that doesn't shock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> let's add a line of fuck ass cock
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> motherfucker piss & shit
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (who knows that just might pass for wit)
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what else to do what else to say
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when everything is mere cliche?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> how else to make a reader feel
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> or think that what we say is real?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of course the whole idea is dumb
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> when we're as comfortably numb
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> but if we sweat through every motion
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we may feel a real emotion –
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at least it kills an hour or two
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and we have nothing else to do.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ~~
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George J. Dance, 2007
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from Doggerel, and other doggerel, 2015
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance don't need no stinkin' commas.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It isn't about what George Dance needs,
> "Professor"; it's about what the
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> speaker of the poem needs.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The speaker in your poem is not "a muse."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I never said he was. Where did you get the
> idea the speaker might be a
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> muse?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> If poetry is meant to be read aloud, how does
> your lack of punctuation help your poem?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Use the line and stanza breaks. That's what
> they're there for.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You did not address the visual demand for six
> ampersands..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It's just part of the style. "and" is replaced
> by &.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Does the speaker say "ampersand" in each line?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, "Professor,", an ampersand is pronounced
> "and." I can understand you
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not knowing that, but it's something you could
> have Googled.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let me quote (from memory) from Karla,
> another wannabe online poetry
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> teacher we once had here:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Do not confuse the speaker of the poem with
> the writer of the poem.."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That saying has been used too much here.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not enough, considering how many tend to
> forget it so often.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The poem still represents your attempt at
> creativity.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Oh, good; you haven't started calling it
> "plagiarized" yet..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Should she have?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be a typical NancyGene troll stunt, yes..
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I didn't ask if she would have (in your paranoid
> opinion), but *should* she have.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance is known (with or without
> justification) for
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's just a smear from PJR, Pen, you know that......
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pendragon damned well knows it.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That only accounts for one of the accusations.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Both Jim and I were victims of another form of
> literary theft when George Dance refused to remove our poetry from his
> website and posted out of context quotes by us in his wiki.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That's not plagiarism, though.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> What part of "another form" are you failing to comprehend?
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> George Dance did, otoh, plagiarize "Batty's Hat" from
> PJR. And you know that, as well.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> No, it was a parody, satire of PJR.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Fair use.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Exactly, you nailed that onme, Doc...!
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Obvious, probably even to PJR himself.
> >>>>>>>>>>> Obviously not, since PJR accused George Dance of having
> plagiarized it from him.
> >>>>>>>>>> I didn't say PJR would admit it, little monkey.
> >>>>>>>>> Was George's "Penny's Hat" blog a satire as well, Donkey?
> >>>>>>>> I don't remember, we should ask George Dance, little monkey.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> If you like. I do remember reading PJR's accusation, and
> finding it disturbingly convincing.
> >>>>>> Your memory is not well known to be very trustworthy, Pen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am known for having an exceptional memory, Stink.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I could easily find and repost PJR's accusation, but I doubt that
> George Dance would be happy about it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I also doubt that George Dance appreciates how you and your
> Donkey insist on pressing the issue. As previously noted, I don't
> believe that George Dance intentionally set out to plagiarize PJR.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, that is precisely what he did
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> No, that was a false accusation of PJ Ross's (and, now, yours). The
> >>>> alleged plagiaized poem that PJ Ross claimed I'd posted never existed.
> >>>> When that was not just pointed out but proven, he simply made up a
> story
> >>>> that I'd "deleted" it (not just from Google groups, but from all of
> >>>> usenet).
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> , and raking it over the coals, yet another time, does nothing to
> improve his reputation.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> Actually, I think allowing bogus allegations like the above one go
> >>>> unanswered would be far worse for my reputation.
> >>>
> >>> Yes, correct the lies and misrepresentations and set the record
> straight, in other words.
> >>>
> >> Indeed. I don't get to do that with the Chimp's stories about you (since
> >> you don't want me writing the details of your life), or of Michael's
> >> false story about Ilya (since he doesn't want me writing about that) --
> >
> > I didn't make up the story about Ilya.
> You took a reported story and changed the details. And, that's all I'll
> say about that, since (due to you) Ilya doesn't want me giving details.
> > And I have repeatedly argued that we'll never be able to know whether
> it is true.
> >
> No, that is not true. I remember you telling the Ashtroll the story
> about it yourself -- and you never told him that you didn't know whether
> it was true or not. You just presented it to him as a true story.
> >> but there's no reason I or anyone else) should let either of them get
> >> away with writing the same kind of bullshit about me in false hope
> >> they'll stop someday.
> >
> > A comparison of the two poems shows that "Betty's" and "Penny's" hats
> are nearly word-for-word rip-offs of "Batty's."
> >
> Then what's stopping you from comparing the two poems? So far, all
> you've done is compare PJ's "poem" to a lines in an early draft that I
> didn't even write (Ray wrote them, with one word change by Will), and
> just tried to pass that off as my poem. As I told you, try again.
> > I have defended your unattributed posting of Leonard Cohen's poem on
> several occasions, and still maintain that you were not attempting to
> pass it off as your own. > But your theft of "Batty's Hat" is undeniable.
> >
> Wrong. Go back and read my actual poem (or at least the lines in it that
> you claim are 'plagiarized'. They're all substantially different.
> > I can only conclude that you are as delusional as a Donkey regarding it..
> >
> I'll remind you that PJ Ross not only claimed that "Penny" was
> plagiarized, but gave me an ultimatum to remove it from my blog or he'd
> go to Google (which hosts the site). I refused, and we stared it out
> eyeball-to-eyeball, until he finally blinked and admitted that "Penny"
> was substantially different from his "poem".
>
> So according to you, he was also "delusional as a Donkey". So was Ray,
> of course, since he never even claimed my poem was "plagiarized.
>
>
> Tell me: Is there anyone besides you that you think is not "delusional
> as a Donkey" on the subject?

Well put, G.D....!