On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:16:29 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:12:03 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 10:04:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:57:32 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:32:07 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 4:35:51 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 1:10:44 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 9:24:48 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:43:51 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:39:44 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:35:30 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:13:20 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 8:03:28 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:49:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 7:30:18 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 2:59:43 PM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Spam-I-Am wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 11:59:31 AM UTC-5, Will Dockery wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sunday, November 13, 2022 at 6:22:04 AM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> But they, while their companions slept,
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>> Were toiling upward in the night.."
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > > poem.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > No biggie. I was able to find one on a reputable site easily enough. I
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > can post it in here:
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> > https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/44636/the-ladder-of-st-augustine
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Good poem.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> >> Any thoughts on why Edgar Allan Poe has such a grudge against Longfellow?
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > Poe considered Longfellow an imitator of other poets’ styles.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Thanks, Corey, so it was nothing personal, like jealousy..
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >>
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> Good to know.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > It wasn’t petty, like jealousy, but it was very personal.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > Thanks, I'll read up on it some more.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > :)
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Poe envied Longfellow’s professional success.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > > No. He hated the New England school of literature, and everyone connected with it, and especially with Boston. Longfellow was the New England school's poster boy. Naturally, Poe detested him.
> > > > > > > >> > > > > Enjoy:
> > > > > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > >> > > > > http://americanliteraryblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/poe-and-longfellow-favorably-known-to.html
> > > > > > > >> > > > As a blog entry, it gives a brief introduction to the topic, and presents it in an interesting manner. But it doesn't really shed any new light on Poe's hatred of the Frogpondians.
> > > > > > > >> > > Of course not. Why would there be? Poe was an eloquent writer, not a hater,
> > > > > > > >> > > but discussing Poe’s work with you is like discussing Kerouac’s with Dockery.
> > > > > > > >> > I don't remember ever discussing Jack Kerouac with you.
> > > > > > > >> I didn’t say we did. I was using you as a simile.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You and Michael were similarly seduced by the works of well known alcoholic writers,
> > > > > > > > and it has been well established by you both that you’ve each had issues with alcohol.
> > > > > > > Okay, interesting observation, Corey.
> > > > > > You and Michael are similarly impassioned in defense of your influences,
> > > > > > which puts me at a disadvantage in our discussions since I don’t share it,
> > > > > > which is the point I was trying to make previously, that it is as difficult for
> > > > > > me to discuss Poe with Michael as it is for me to discuss Kerouac with you.
> > > > > Lately, the same problem in discussing Edgar Allan Poe comes up when discussing or reading about Jerry Lee Lewis.
> > > > >
> > > > > The fact always comes up that, like Poe, Lewis married his thirteen year old cousin.
> > > > Everyone knows that Poe married his cousin, Donkey. The only "problem" in discussing it, is in your trollish attempt to bait me into a flame war over it.
> > > >
> > > > Poe and his cousin were happily married, and he remained a devoted husband to her till her untimely death.
> > > >
> > > > Poe, by his own admission, did not consummate their marriage until a year after they were wed, at which time he felt her to be sufficiently mature.
> > > >
> > > > Poe looked for spiritual relationships with women (as opposed to sexual ones), as he believed that passion tends to "degrade, rather than elevate, the Soul." In his young bride, Poe found the purity and innocence of one unspoiled by the mundane world. He describes his relationship with her in "Eleonora," wherein the change from platonic to romantic love is depicted in symbolic terms of blossoming love, without an sordid or lustful overtones.
> > > >
> > > > His relationship was a world or two away from your adolescent dalliances with the local kiddies, and from Pick's (hopefully made up) tales of 14-year old girls he seduced and abandoned.
> > > The romantic parallels between Poe, Lewis, and their love for their respective wives, is valid.
> > I haven't a problem with comparing Poe to JLL, although I don't know what the latter's views on love were. I take issue with the Donkey's claim that their marriage was an act of pedophilia/statutory rape.
> >
> > More specifically, I have a problem with amoral scumbags (like Donkey) claiming moral superiority to their betters.
> I'm claiming nothing.
>
> I simply point out the fact that both Edgar Allan Poe and Jerry Lee Lewis married their 13 year old cousins.
>
> If you're fine with grown men marrying little girls, that's up to you.

I believe that Poe's union with Virginia was exemplary. I am not as familiar with JLL's marriage, but to-all-intents-and-purposes, he sacrificed his career to marry her -- so I can only respect his marriage as well.

Otoh, by your own stories, I believe you to be the scum of the earth, having seduced and married a 15-year old, cheated on her numerous times, failed to support both her and your children with her, and in no position to judge or look down on men who loved their wives and who treated them with respect (assuming that JLL did).