On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 2:35:20 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> On 2022-11-15 11:05 a.m., Michael Pendragon wrote:
> > On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 10:48:16 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 9:43:52 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 8:56:35 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 8:38:57 AM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>> On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 4:46:37 AM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>>>>> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 9:19:18 PM UTC-5, michaelmalef...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>>>>> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:26:11 PM UTC-5, Spam-I-Am wrote:
> >>>>>>>> On Monday, November 14, 2022 at 3:07:11 PM UTC-5, george...@yahoo.ca wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-12 1:12 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> On Sat, 12 Nov 2022 12:37:41 -0500, "George J. Dance"
> >>>>>>>>>> <george...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On 2022-11-10 1:09 p.m., Mack A. Damia wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "The Ladder of St. Augustine"
> >>>>>>>>>>>> - Henry Wadsworth Longfellow
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>> "The heights by great men reached and kept
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Were not attained by sudden flight,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> But they, while their companions slept,
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Were toiling upward in the night."
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Looks like a Longfellow poem I haven't read, and one worth reading.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> I'll go look for it, but I'd ask you to give me a link next time.
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> That's not a "GL" either, just a suggestion.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> It was a verse that struck me and has stayed with me for many decades
> >>>>>>>>>> (since the 1980s). Yes, I should have posted a link to the entire
> >>>>>>>>>> poem.
> >>>>>>>>> Sorry to intervene, Mack, but Michael is not asking you to post links.
> >>>>>>>>> In his view, links are bad, as they "lure" people away from the group.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> He's been asking (and now demanding) that you post "original commentary"
> >>>>>>>>> with every poem or quotation you post.
> >>>>>>>> I think Michael took an unnecessarily harsh tack, and that what he was trying to convey
> >>>>>>>> is that the preferred method of interpersonal exchange here in this text based medium
> >>>>>>>> is text. I don’t think anybody particularly objects to links except that they don’t afford
> >>>>>>>> readers the opportunity to do what they come here to do, which is obviously to read.
> >>>>>>> I feel that I have been patient with Mack long enough.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You may have forgotten his behavior when I asked him why one should presuppose a split brain existed, when the so-called "evidence" for it (numinous experiences) still occurs today as a result of the separation of conscious and unconscious minds. Here's how Mack responded:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "You haven't read the book, and that says volumes about your lack of
> >>>>>>> intellect. Your questions and criticisms have no relevance to Jaynes'
> >>>>>>> theory. Good bye. I am not going to argue with a dining room table."
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I excused his unwarranted tirade at the time... however, when taken in conjunction with his recent announcement that he shall not follow any Guidelines, I can only believe him to be another loony sock puppet that George and his Donkey invited from the Beatles or the Dylan group.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Mack is now on my troll-list, and shall be treated like his fellow trolls.
> >>>>>> I’m not concerned with your feelings, Michael. You may feel that you have been patient,
> >>>>>> and by your standards maybe you have been, but you’re really not a very patient person.
> >>>>>> FYI, I don’t follow the guidelines either. I just don’t make a big deal about it. In fact, I don’t
> >>>>>> think I’ve ever read your guidelines or FAQ all the way through, but I appreciate the effort
> >>>>>> you put into them. They simply don’t apply to me. No offense intended. Keep up the great work.
> >>>>> Since the GLs ask only for common courtesy (netiquette), like most of us you follow them without trying.
> >>>> The nature of common courtesy is that as soon as you demand
> >>>> it of others, especially in an unmoderated environment like this,
> >>>> it either disappears from you, or makes you look silly for asking.
> >>> I disagree.
> >>>
> >>> I think that most of us are naturally courteous, and that we prefer civil discussions to flame wars.
> >>>
> >>> When dealing with trolls (and we are dealing with trolls), we need to make a concerted effort to maintain courtesy amongst ourselves, and to strive for some semblance of structure amidst the chaos trolls create.
> >>>
> >>> It is at such times that Guidelines become essential. If we can adhere to the Guidelines in spite of the trolls, they become nothing more than an annoyance -- that can be reported, blocked, and ignored. AAPC continues to function as a forum in which poets can post original poetry and discuss one another's work *in spite of the trolls.*
> >>>
> >>> I plan on remaining courteous to others (trolls excepted), and don't care how silly it makes me appear.
> >> If you’re trying to disagree with me, you’re not doing it very well.
> >> Of course most of us are naturally courteous, and prefer civility.
> >> My comment concerns our actions in light of others incivility.
> >>
> >> The structure you seek is in the maintenance of, and focus on
> >> interpersonal relationships, like yours and mine, that demonstrate
> >> their value on this platform, in this type of written communication.
> >>
> >> Calling people trolls is an ineffective method of influencing behavior..
> >> People will change their behavior when they hurt themselves, or when
> >> you demonstrate a better, more effective way of communicating.
> >
> > You're assuming that we are dealing with people.
> >
> > At this point, I no longer believe that "Team Donkey" (a.k.a., George Dance, Will Donkey, General Stink, and Jordy's Pervy Uncle) has any desire to have AAPC function as intended. George Dance wants to use it as an ad for his blog; Will Donkey wants to use it as his personal message board (and general self-aggrandizement), and the General and Uncle Isaac just want to slurp the Donkey's ego.
> >
> You're correct that I've given up trying to have AAPC function, Michael.
> I gave up trying that when you and Team Monkey (NancyGene, Jim
> Senetto, Ash Wurthing, and ME) drove out all the people I'd invited
> here. Now we're just playing your troll game.

1) No one drove out Karen. She still joins in a conversation now and then (and we all wish she would do so more often).
2) I don't recall who else you invited... but then again, I don't recall any recent members who made any impression, and/or are missed.

If you want AAPC to function properly, you need to use your influence with Team Donkey to get them to stop their flaming and start following the GLs.

> Of course, you had to add in some lies about what we're "here for."

Your actions make your agenda crystal clear.

> Remember that Mack came here with a question, and that it was Team
> Donkey (Will and I) who answered it for him.

Mack is believed to have been a Team Donkey plant. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised if the question had been set-up beforehand.

> > I don't expect any of them to change their behavior -- regardless of what we do.
> The one thing Team Monkey won't do, of course, is to stop trolling and
> lying about "Team Donkey".

How do you explain our having reported (and consequently blocked our access to) the vast majority of Team Donkey's threads and individual posts?

Far from trolling them, we are doing everything within our power to ignore them.

> > They are here to stay, and they will continue to disrupt the group, incite flame wars, and make general nuisances of themselves.
> >
> As Mack can see, you're the one inciting yet another flame war by
> trolling the rival team.

I don't care what Mack can see. Mack is on your team. Secure his loyalty on your own time.

> > That leaves the rest of us with three options:
> >
> > 1) create/relocate to another group,
> > 2) ignore the trolls and attempt to maintain our group within the midst of their "controlled chaos,"
> > 3) raise the cash for a hit man via Go Fund Me, and have them removed for good.
> Your option (1), leaving aapc -- sounds like the best option, given that
> my preference -- that you simply stop trolling everyone who doesn't
> "comply" with Team Monkey's demands -- is one you're incapable of.

It's certainly the best option from Team Donkey's p.o.v.

However, I'm currently wavering between options 2 and 3.