Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
news:bhvj3hlnp2q6j9ss2k9jo1ieb44mrq4jlh@4ax.com:

> On Mon, 21 Mar 2022 09:53:54 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>news:kv0c3htlk9fe7k07q3cjcdo4hhmnrh5o2q@4ax.com:
>>
>>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 09:40:59 -0700, Jibini Kula Tumbili
>>> Kujisalimisha <taustinca@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>Paul S Person <psperson1@ix.netcom.invalid> wrote in
>>>>news:m9a93hhodflq5f6eafe1v5u1r89lbrunle@4ax.com:
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 07:01:50 -0700 (PDT),
>>>>> "pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Friday, March 18, 2022 at 9:02:24 AM UTC-4, Michael F.
>>>>>>Stemper wrote:
>>>>>>> On 17/03/2022 23.03, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>>>>> > On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 6:12:16 PM UTC-4, Jibini
>>>>>>> > Kula Tumbili Kujisalimisha wrote:
>>>>>>> >> Quadibloc <jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in
>>>>>>> >> news:950eae54-34c2-45c2...@googlegroups.com:
>>>>>>> >>> My vague memory was that Pinot Grand Fenwick, in a
>>>>>>> >>> very good year, had a special ingredient that powered
>>>>>>> >>> their bomb. Perhaps, instead, this was the fuel for
>>>>>>> >>> The Mouse on the Moon?
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >> It is, indeed. That DVD should arrive today or
>>>>>>> >> tomorrow.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > 2005 wants its overdue dvds back. It's available on
>>>>>>> > Amazon Prime TV for $3.99
>>>>>>> Watch it once for four bucks versus own it for twelve
>>>>>>> doesn't seem to make sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>How many times do you think you'll watch it, in your life?
>>>>>
>>>>> A valid point, and yet it must be kept in mind that, just
>>>>> because it can be rented /today/ does not mean it will be
>>>>> available /tomorrow/. Or next month. Or next year.
>>>>>
>>>>> Most DVDs last a long long time, when properly stored. The
>>>>> exceptions appear to be mostly manufacturing defects, such
>>>>> as bit rot, the secret code on the rim rubbing off (as
>>>>> opposed to being permanently applied, so it can't rub off),
>>>>> or second-layer problems. Or use of an "unknown opcode" --
>>>>> but the Scenes Menu can usually get you past that, and a
>>>>> newer player may well recognize the opcode.
>>>>
>>>>Or cheaply made DVD-Rs with pirated content, but I do try to
>>>>avoid those.
>>>
>>> I've been suckered into those a couple times. In both cases, I
>>> eventually found a /legitimate/ version available and replaced
>>> the el-cheapo.
>>
>>I only have once, with the same end result.
>>>
>>> If the film was out of copyright, of course, such a film was
>>> not "pirated". Just an el-cheapo.
>>
>>Never had much interest in stuff like that.
>
> Just because it's so old it's no longer copyrighted doesn't mean
> it's not worth watching.

Very true. But most of what was made back then isn't subject matter
that interests me.
>
> And then there is /Sita Sings the Blues/, which is "copyleft"ed.
>
>>> Still, an el-cheapo DVD is better than an el-cheapo VHS,
>>
>>The quality of VHS degrades with each generation of copying. By
>>the fourth or fifth generation, it's trash.
>>
>>> since
>>> the DVD is usually actually produced by a company that knows
>>> how to produce them.
>>
>>The one DVD I got from the Yo Ho Movie Club was made *from* a
>>VHS tape, that was at least a fourth or fifth generation copy.
>>It was basically unwatchable.
>
> I read the reviews of the (very few now) films I am looking and
> hoping for to avoid exactly that problem. Also pirating.
>
> But the /DVD/, considered as a /DVD/, still played all the way
> throught he film, right?

That one did, yes. It wasn't a long flim, well within the normal
record time for a VHS tape.

> Didn't stop 2/3 of the way through,
> say? And, being manufactured (presumably) by a company that does
> that for others (and usually inserts a screen to that effect at
> some point before or after the film), is as likely to last for
> decades (stored properly) as any other DVD.

I wouldn't count on the pirated stuff lasting long enough for the
post office to deliver it.
>
> That's what I was referring to: el-cheapo DVDs are superior to
> el-cheapo VHS in purely physical terms. The programming can, as
> you note, be just as bad.

Very true.
>
> I was /very/ glad to find /Charade/ done by Criterion because I
> knew it would be done as well as possible for something so old.

Criterion does excellent work. I believe the remaster the original
film where possible and go from there.

> It was also two minutes longer than the el-cheapo -- and those
> two minutes were /all my favorite bits [1]/, which the source
> used by the el-cheapo was lacking, clearly (to me) because the
> 8mm copy the el-cheapo used had been played over and over and
> over at those places until it literally broke into pieces in the
> projector.
>
> [1] Anyone who has seen the film can probably guess which ones
> they were. OTOH, the VHS tape the el-cheapo replaced was
> super-green: I had to adjust the color on my TV every time I saw
> it, and then adjust it back. Such is the fate of really popular
> old movies.

It may have originally be transferred to VHS from an 8mm film, and
the film may have deteriorated to the point where *it* was green.
It's common enough on cheap film.
>
>>>It took three tries with the original /Night of
>>> the Living Dead/ until I found an el-cheapo VHS tape that
>>> didn't run out of tape before the film ended. What the first
>>> apparently two did was record it in LP, but only use enough
>>> tape for EP. That doesn't happen with DVDs.
>>>
>>> Some studios make DVD-Rs of their own, which are, of course,
>>> legitimate. In some cases, when I had to replace a DVD that
>>> stopped playing (a rare occurrence), the replacement turned
>>> out to be a studio-produced DVD-R.
>>
>>Not all that uncommon for non-big-studio films.
>
> I'm not sure what this refers to. Most non-big-studio films I
> own DVDs of are on regular DVDs, not DVD-Rs.

But it's not uncommon for indie films where the people who are
doing the DVD don't expect enough sales to justify the expensive a
full production run. Certianly more common than for big studio
films.
>
> And the ones I was referring are, by definition, big studio
> films, as it is big studios that are putting them (and the mod
> BDs) out.
>
> And some were popular enough to be released on a normal DVD
> originally.
>
> Note: By "DVD" and "BD" I am referring to a mass-market
> production run, where a very large number of copies are produced
> and sent out for sale everywhere. "DVD-R" and "mod BD" refer to
> discs sold (so far as I can tell) only online and produced only
> when purchased. Indeed, for a while, at least, Amazon was
> actually producing (burning) the DVD-Rs, using content provided
> by the major studio.
>
>>> When I last investigated it, BD-Rs had been tried and found
>>> wanting, so instead of a studio-produced BD-R you get an "mod"
>>> ("manufactured on demand") BD.
>>
>>I only own a handful of BDs, only on stuff not available any
>>other way (like the later seasons of The Expanse.)
>
> When my last DVD player died, I replaced it with a BD player.
> The discs I bought then were either for P&S DVDs that were
> letterboxed on BD, or were very long films that were split over
> two sides (either on one DVD or one each on two) on DVD, but
> were on one side of one disc on BD.
>
> Since then, I have also bought BDs when they were all I could
> find (not necessarily all that existed, I don't always look
> beyond Amazon) or when they cost less than the DVD (sometimes by
> what I would regard by quite a bit). Sometimes what cost less
> was a BD/DVD combo pack -- less than the DVD or the BD by
> itself.

The only BDs I own are first four seasons of The Expanse (bastards
haven' release season 5 on disc yet) and a miniseries on the great
kingdoms of Africa, both of which were only available on BD (which
is to say, season 4 of The Expanse, made by Amazon - the first
three seasons are available on DVD).

I expect there will be more in the future.
>
> Unlike the transition from P&S VHS to letterboxed VHS, or from
> VHS to DVD, I fell /no/ desire to replace DVDs with BDs. It
> isn't just economics; I actually /prefer/ the DVD-style menus.
> For one thing, they are readable, something that cannot always
> be said about BD menus due to their choice of font size.

My television was the cheapest model availabe at Walmart, so
there's no detectible difference between DVD and BD when played on
it.
>
> And it isn't as if the people putting out BDs are any smarter
> than those putting out DVDs. I have a BD that, when inserted,
> immediately starts playing the film and has /only/ a popup menu
> -- which requires you to let the film play in the background
> while you work the menu. This is /worse/ than the worst DVDs,
> which at least have a Main Menu.

My BD player is actually an external computer drive. I've yet to
find computer software to play movie discs that works worth a damn.
At least for free.
>
> Well, except those few that don't of course -- the ones that
> play when you put them in and, when the film is over, re-start
> it. Great for video store demos, not so great for my
> preferences.

We all have our albatross.
>
>>> These studio-produced DVD-R/mod BDs are, of course, older
>>> films that don't have much demand but do have some. They may
>>> include a trailer. They may have chapter stops every 10
>>> minutes, but no Chapters menu. They are /definitely/ for
>>> people who want to watch the movie! Little or no effort is put
>>> into cleaning them up. Those that were originally DVDs,
>>> however, both turned out to be the original DVD program, just
>>> redone as a DVD-R.
>>
>>The mastering process can be a major expense if one wants to do
>>it right. There's a minimum number of expected sales needed to
>>justify it.
>
> Exactly. At least one of the early DVD-R trailers made a point
> of the fact that the film had not been cleaned up in any way.
> Reviews often complain about this, but, if you want the film,
> you want the film. At least it is from a film copy, not VHS
> (unless, of course, the original was a TV show shot on VHS).

A lot of television that was done on tape was done in a slightly
higher quality VHS format (I forget what it was called). Better,
but still crap compared to digital.
>
> One reminded me, at the start, that my last DVD player was very
> good at overcoming certain types of jitter. My BD player, alas,
> is not. But then, the other DVD players were what my last DVD
> player was noticeably better than, so this is not uncommon.
>
> But it you want, say, a complete set of Weismuller /Tarzan/
> movies (I, myself, do not, this is just an example using a
> well-known set), I think they are available -- on Studio
> produced DVD-Rs.
>
> And, once on DVD-R, they are likely to /stay/ on DVD-R, since
> the only cost is space to store the program so it can be used to
> produce a physical copy.
>
> As might be imagined, being basically labor-intensive one-offs,
> they may seem bit pricy. But not exorbitantly so, compared to
> actual major studio DVDs/BDs.

--
Terry Austin

Proof that Alan Baker is a liar and a fool, and even stupider than
Lynn:
https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/sw-border-migration
(May 2019 total for people arrested for entering the United States
illegally is over 132,000 for just the southwest border.)

Vacation photos from Iceland:
https://plus.google.com/u/0/collection/QaXQkB