On 6/12/2022 6:01 AM, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote:
> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>> On 6/11/2022 8:51 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
>>> On 6/11/2022 7:31 PM, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote:
>>>> Dimensional Traveler <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 6/11/2022 12:55 PM, rkshullat@rosettacondot.com wrote:
>>>>>> Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 10 Jun 2022 15:53:48 -0700 (PDT), "peterwezeman@hotmail.com"
>>>>>>> <peterwezeman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> According to an article in the _New York Times_, the officers
>>>>>>>> who entered the classrooms and killed the gunman did so on their own
>>>>>>>> initiative.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "A tactical team led by Border Patrol officers ultimately ignored
>>>>>>>> orders
>>>>>>>> not to breach the classroom, interviews revealed, after a 10-year-old
>>>>>>>> girl inside the classroom warned 911 dispatchers that one of the
>>>>>>>> two teachers in the room was in urgent need of medical attention."
>>>>>>>>                                              .
>>>>>>>> .           .
>>>>>>>> In the hallway outside the classrooms, a throng of heavily armed law
>>>>>>>> enforcement officers anxiously awaited instructions. But frustrations
>>>>>>>> were growing, particularly among members of a Border Patrol tactical
>>>>>>>> unit, according to the person who was briefed on the team?s response.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ?No one entity or individual seemed to have control of the scene,?
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> person said. ?It was chaos.?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The sense of frustration among tactical team members was corroborated
>>>>>>>> by two officials familiar with their debriefing.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> After more than an hour, the ad hoc group of officers who had
>>>>>>>> arrived ready
>>>>>>>> to attack the gunman was growing impatient, and decided to move in.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> One of the members ? equipped with an earpiece and small microphone ?
>>>>>>>> quietly announced over the radio that the group was preparing to
>>>>>>>> go into
>>>>>>>> the classrooms. At that point a voice responded, telling them not to
>>>>>>>> breach the doors.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> They ignored the directive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As the agents entered, the gunman appeared to be ready for them, the
>>>>>>>> person said. He fired. They fired back, with at least one bullet
>>>>>>>> striking him
>>>>>>>> in the head. A bullet fragment also grazed the head of one of the
>>>>>>>> Border
>>>>>>>> Patrol agents.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> link to full article:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/03/us/uvalde-police-response.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There are two ongoing investigations into the law enforcement
>>>>>>>> response
>>>>>>>> in Uvalde, which was inconsistent with standard doctrine and
>>>>>>>> training.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And the guy /thought/ to have been in charge is now saying that he was
>>>>>>> not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it's better stated that the guy who was supposed to be in
>>>>>> charge
>>>>>> didn't realize it. Which, since he was the head of the school
>>>>>> district's
>>>>>> police force and everyone else was in his jurisdiction, meant nobody
>>>>>> was in charge.
>>>>>> I'm surprised they HAVE a district police force, even if it is only six
>>>>>> officers. UCISD has about the same number of students as the
>>>>>> district my
>>>>>> son graduated from and other than a coordinator at each school they
>>>>>> rely
>>>>>> on (and presumbably pay) a couple of the local cities' forces to
>>>>>> provide
>>>>>> security. Our town has the same arrangement with the county sheriff.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Texas.  :D
>>>>
>>>> What's the usual solution for a small town with low population density
>>>> and
>>>> no real crime problems? It's more than doubled in size since we moved in,
>>>> but we're still only at around 8000 population and a density of 500/sq
>>>> mi.
>>>> Fire-rescue currently costs about $3.5 million/year (over half the city
>>>> budget). A police department would likely cost a lot more. That money
>>>> would
>>>> have to be extracted from the than 3000 households...figure at least
>>>> $1500 per household per year. With sales taxes pretty much maxed out (and
>>>> only two retailers in town) that means doubling property taxes.
>>>> One thing that living in a small town has taught me is that money
>>>> spent by
>>>> the government really is extracted from individuals...literally in some
>>>> cases. When they incorporated the neighborhood that our house is in
>>>> the city
>>>> upgraded the neighborhood roads to the point they could get their fire
>>>> trucks
>>>> in and out. This was before our time, but the lien they put on each
>>>> property
>>>> is still in the records...something like $700/house with the lien being
>>>> released once the bill was paid.
>>>>
>>> The usual way of handling that is let the county sheriff's office be the
>>> town's police force as part of their handling all the rest of the county
>>> that doesn't have a dedicated force.  In most states the sheriffs are
>>> senior to the town/city police forces anyways.
>>>
>> A few more thoughts. Why does a school district of _grade schools_ need
>> a police force in the first place? And if the area can't support a
>> police force for the whole town, how is it paying for one for just the
>> school(s)? And how are the laws in Texas written so that a school
>> district police force somehow is more senior than the local city police
>> force, the county sheriff, the Texas Rangers and a Federal Law
>> Enforcement Agency?
>
> Jurisdiction and responsibilities. If there's a city or school police force
> they should understand the environment and situation better than a random
> responder from somewhere else. The county sheriff's office isn't funded or
> staffed to be the primary law enforcement for a city of any size. The Texas
> Department of Public Safety (the Rangers are a small division of that) is
> more a state bureau of investigation than a state police force. The closest
> thing to that would be the Highway Patrol in the DPS, but they've got roughly
> 1 trooper per 100 sq miles (and about 1 Ranger per 1500 sq miles).
> Likewise the county sheriffs...they have the general responsibility of
> law enforcement in their counties but they also operate the county jail,
> provide court security, serve warrants, etc. If they show up at a school
> it might be the first time they've ever been there, unless they happen to
> have kids attending. They also might not have had the training that school
> district officers, or city officers assigned to a school, have had (or are
> supposed to have had).

In the latest Texas incident it appears the local officers didn't have
_any_ training for this kind of situation while a unit of the Border
Patrol who's whole purpose is to deal with this kind of situation had to
wait for the locals to get their thumbs out of their posteriors. Just
because a higher agency takes charge doesn't mean they don't get briefed
by the relieved personnel on the situation and any special conditions.
And in general each step "up" in that kind of chain is to a larger
agency with a bigger budget to support the specialized training for that
kind of situation. Otherwise why would they be called in?

> School districts are also complicated in Texas...they have only tangential
> relationship to cities. It's not uncommon for them to have the same name as
> the largest city in the district (or sometimes the county they mostly serve)
> but not necessarily...the one we're in is named after a local resident who
> was a strong proponent of education and covers a bunch of small towns and
> unincorporated areas. There's also no official relationship between cities
> and districts. Our town is only 8000 people but you can be in one of four
> different school districts depending on exactly where in town you live.
> Districts also vary wildly in size...our district has about 4000 students,
> the neighboring district closer to 22,000 (and both have a single high
> school). Dallas has over 150,000.
>
That still doesn't explain to me why grade schools "need" their own
independent police force rather than the individual schools being
covered by the LEO handling their location.

--
I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
dirty old man.