On 6/01/2022 10:35 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 12:38 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>> On Thursday, 6 January 2022 at 00:05:46 UTC+11, Clocky wrote:
>
>>>> Try the Bristol Hercules 14 cylinder sleeve valve radial engine
>>>>
>>>> these are the timing gears
>>>>
>>>> https://external-preview.redd.it/nj9nn27gDl3xfGgFXM6L3pwi_icqkRevxG08L9_IfZ4.jpg?auto=webp&s=4a9be3ecd263eb24529aa0a2297e9e96f46b83ff
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Meh, just install the gear and line up the dots and repeat, it doesn't
>>> look that complicated to set up. More impressive is how they designed
>>> and made these things at the time.
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>   Connect the dots?, whoo-hoo, that means even *you* could
>> possibly/probably handle it ???...
>
> I wouldn't bet big money on it. Why do you think he fits snorkels and
> mudflaps for a living, and pisses down his leg with excitement over
> something as mundane as wiring up a set of driving lights?
>
> Did the Westie moron ever get around to telling anyone what he replaced
> his old ex-taxi Commodore with?
>
> What's the best it was another heap of shit Commodore :)
>
>
>

What wrong mate, did you get a lump of shit in your stocking instead of
the trade qualifications you had hoped for?

On 6/1/22 9:04 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 8:43 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 5/1/22 10:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 5/01/2022 6:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>>
>>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>>
>>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>>
>>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>>
>>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>
>>> Try the Bristol Hercules 14 cylinder sleeve valve radial engine
>>>
>>> these are the timing gears
>>>
>>> https://external-preview.redd.it/nj9nn27gDl3xfGgFXM6L3pwi_icqkRevxG08L9_IfZ4.jpg?auto=webp&s=4a9be3ecd263eb24529aa0a2297e9e96f46b83ff
>>>
>>
>>
>> LOL, makes that Nissan engine look simple.
>
> Compared to some engines we've seen, it pretty much is. I don't know why
> Junior from Westyville thought it was interesting. Perhaps it is to him.
>
>
>
Any sleeve valve engine is interesting Darren, but only because of the
complexity involved. They are good for volumetric efficiency but, boy,
do they burn oil.

What's more, the linked pic above doesn't show *all* the complexity
involved. It shows only the timing gears but doesn't show what they are
connected to and what they do. This does;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vrvep_YOio

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfS7XJZR2Ok

Note the second animation is only showing one cylinder on the master
rod. Each link on that rod carries another con rod and sleeve assembly
for a total of 9 - and then there's another bank of 9, total 18.

You can see why the sleeve valve engine would be a serious oil burner ,
you need to lubricate both sides of the sleeve.

A cutaway working model. Again, only the master rod shown. Just think of
the *extra unwanted friction* involved just to gain a bit of volumetric
efficiency improvement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfS7XJZR2Ok

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/1/22 1:32 pm, Noddy wrote:

> *Jesus* this fucking clueless attention whore will invent any kind of
> ridiculous bullshit to waffle on, won't it?
>
> I never said the Commer "Knocker" engine was complicated. I said the
> Nissan engine reminded me of it in some ways, and that it was no more or
> less complicated.
>
> Fair dimkum, this useless piece of unicorn riding shit couldn't
> comprehend basic language if you wrote it on a cricket bat and smashed
> him in the face with it.
>
The TS3 is *nothing* like the Infiniti Q50 engine Darren. Any *boxer*
engine is more like the TS3.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/1/22 1:59 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 10:35 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 12:38 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 6 January 2022 at 00:05:46 UTC+11, Clocky wrote:
>>
>>>>> Try the Bristol Hercules 14 cylinder sleeve valve radial engine
>>>>>
>>>>> these are the timing gears
>>>>>
>>>>> https://external-preview.redd.it/nj9nn27gDl3xfGgFXM6L3pwi_icqkRevxG08L9_IfZ4.jpg?auto=webp&s=4a9be3ecd263eb24529aa0a2297e9e96f46b83ff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Meh, just install the gear and line up the dots and repeat, it doesn't
>>>> look that complicated to set up. More impressive is how they designed
>>>> and made these things at the time.
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>   Connect the dots?, whoo-hoo, that means even *you* could
>>> possibly/probably handle it ???...
>>
>> I wouldn't bet big money on it. Why do you think he fits snorkels and
>> mudflaps for a living, and pisses down his leg with excitement over
>> something as mundane as wiring up a set of driving lights?
>>
>> Did the Westie moron ever get around to telling anyone what he
>> replaced his old ex-taxi Commodore with?
>>
>> What's the best it was another heap of shit Commodore :)
>>
>>
>>
>
> What wrong mate, did you get a lump of shit in your stocking instead of
> the trade qualifications you had hoped for?

He probably still craps his pants regularly.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 13:32:18 +1100, Noddy wrote:

> On 6/01/2022 11:45 am, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 5 January 2022 at 12:27:18 UTC+11, Xeno wrote:
>
>>>
>>> So, in reality, the Commer TS3 was a much simpler engine than a typical
>>> 4 stroke and even simpler than the GM 2 stroke diesel which had 4 valves
>>> per cylinder, all exhaust valves, and the camshaft even ran the unit
>>> injectors. Crank rockers don't add up to a lot of complexity Darren and,
>>> had you actually ever worked on one, you would realise this. Back to
>>> Google for you.
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> No point, *you* have decimated the resource.
>
> *Jesus* this fucking clueless attention whore will invent any kind of
> ridiculous bullshit to waffle on, won't it?
>
> I never said the Commer "Knocker" engine was complicated. I said the
> Nissan engine reminded me of it in some ways, and that it was no more or
> less complicated.
>
> Fair dimkum, this useless piece of unicorn riding shit couldn't
> comprehend basic language if you wrote it on a cricket bat and smashed
> him in the face with it.

Yep, you sure know basic language Fraudster. "Fair dimkum"! lol.

Seriously Fraudster, the search for your first decent analogy is putting
real stress on the Infinite Monkeys theory.

alvey

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 10:59:52 +0800, Clocky wrote:

> On 6/01/2022 10:35 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 12:38 pm, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>> On Thursday, 6 January 2022 at 00:05:46 UTC+11, Clocky wrote:
>>
>>>>> Try the Bristol Hercules 14 cylinder sleeve valve radial engine
>>>>>
>>>>> these are the timing gears
>>>>>
>>>>> https://external-preview.redd.it/nj9nn27gDl3xfGgFXM6L3pwi_icqkRevxG08L9_IfZ4.jpg?auto=webp&s=4a9be3ecd263eb24529aa0a2297e9e96f46b83ff
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Meh, just install the gear and line up the dots and repeat, it doesn't
>>>> look that complicated to set up. More impressive is how they designed
>>>> and made these things at the time.
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>   Connect the dots?, whoo-hoo, that means even *you* could
>>> possibly/probably handle it ???...
>>
>> I wouldn't bet big money on it. Why do you think he fits snorkels and
>> mudflaps for a living, and pisses down his leg with excitement over
>> something as mundane as wiring up a set of driving lights?
>>
>> Did the Westie moron ever get around to telling anyone what he replaced
>> his old ex-taxi Commodore with?
>>
>> What's the best it was another heap of shit Commodore :)
>>
>
> What wrong mate, did you get a lump of shit in your stocking instead of
> the trade qualifications you had hoped for?

lol.

alvey
Wondering what cheap and cheerless part of Dictoria the family had to put
up with him for this season. Some Bumhole-by-the-Sea no doubt.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 5/1/22 9:30 am, Daryl wrote:
> On 5/1/22 9:13 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 5/01/2022 7:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>
>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>
>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>
>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>
>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>
>> There is not the slightest thing complicated about it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
> If you want complicated look at a Napier Deltic:-)
>
The Napier Deltic is relatively simple. The only real complication is in
the method of linking and timing of the crankshafts as depicted here;

https://assets.nst.com.my/images/articles/diesel1.jpg_1511679745.jpg

Like the Commer TS3, the Napier Deltic is a Two Stroke Uniflow Diesel
engine. IOW, no valves, no camshafts, not even any sleeve valves with
all the inherent complications they bring to the party. One piston per
cylinder controls the intake ports, the other controls the exhaust
ports. Because it is a two stroke, like the TS3, it needs a scavenge
pump or blower. But the engine is inherently simple.

Compare the Deltic to another Napier product, the Napier Sabre. You want
complex, the Sabre has it in spades.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ae/48/92/ae4892144b45e0a152ab7d705a2d660f.gif

https://www.enginehistory.org/members/articles/NapierSabre/SabreGeartrain.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7gW_sBrqxo

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/1/22 12:05 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 5/01/2022 7:52 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 5/01/2022 6:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>
>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>
>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>
>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>
>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>
>> Try the Bristol Hercules 14 cylinder sleeve valve radial engine
>>
>> these are the timing gears
>>
>> https://external-preview.redd.it/nj9nn27gDl3xfGgFXM6L3pwi_icqkRevxG08L9_IfZ4.jpg?auto=webp&s=4a9be3ecd263eb24529aa0a2297e9e96f46b83ff
>>
>
> Meh, just install the gear and line up the dots and repeat, it doesn't
> look that complicated to set up. More impressive is how they designed
> and made these things at the time.

Funny, isn't it, how some people see a heap of gears and freak out. As
you say, just line up the timing marks (or whatever) and she's apples.
It's what those gears *drive* that is where the complexity lies. Sleeve
valves made for a smoky engine in the past and would if they were ever
reintroduced. They were confined to the dustbin of history because
better ways to achieve the same outcome were developed. The Nissan
variable compression method should be sent down the same path.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/1/22 5:38 pm, alvey wrote:
> On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 13:32:18 +1100, Noddy wrote:
>
>> On 6/01/2022 11:45 am, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, 5 January 2022 at 12:27:18 UTC+11, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>> So, in reality, the Commer TS3 was a much simpler engine than a typical
>>>> 4 stroke and even simpler than the GM 2 stroke diesel which had 4 valves
>>>> per cylinder, all exhaust valves, and the camshaft even ran the unit
>>>> injectors. Crank rockers don't add up to a lot of complexity Darren and,
>>>> had you actually ever worked on one, you would realise this. Back to
>>>> Google for you.
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> No point, *you* have decimated the resource.
>>
>> *Jesus* this fucking clueless attention whore will invent any kind of
>> ridiculous bullshit to waffle on, won't it?
>>
>> I never said the Commer "Knocker" engine was complicated. I said the
>> Nissan engine reminded me of it in some ways, and that it was no more or
>> less complicated.
>>
>> Fair dimkum, this useless piece of unicorn riding shit couldn't
>> comprehend basic language if you wrote it on a cricket bat and smashed
>> him in the face with it.
>
> Yep, you sure know basic language Fraudster. "Fair dimkum"! lol.
>
> Seriously Fraudster, the search for your first decent analogy is putting
> real stress on the Infinite Monkeys theory.
>
>
>
> alvey
>
Darren gets all his insults from the book of childish insults.

Hey, maybe he should get a robot on the job. Like this one;

https://www.robietherobot.com/insult-generator.htm

For sure the robot would come up with more *intelligent* insults.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>
>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>
>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>> engines will be reliable?
>>
>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>
>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>
>
> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to some
> US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation for
> building anything that is reliable.
>
> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional engine
> or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due, this looks
> like a recipe for disaster.
>
The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a maintenance
item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.

On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>
>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>
>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>
>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>
>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>
>>
>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation for
>> building anything that is reliable.
>>
>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional engine
>> or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due, this looks
>> like a recipe for disaster.
>>
> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a maintenance
> item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.

Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That means they
only should be getting replaced at the time of engine overhaul. There
have been some where the tensioners or guides were sub-par and these
caused random failure but, generally speaking, a timing chain is not a
maintenance item, however timing belts are.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>>
>>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>>
>>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>>
>>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>>
>>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation
>>> for building anything that is reliable.
>>>
>>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional
>>> engine or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due, this
>>> looks like a recipe for disaster.
>>>
>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a maintenance
>> item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>
> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That means they
> only should be getting replaced at the time of engine overhaul. There
> have been some where the tensioners or guides were sub-par and these
> caused random failure but, generally speaking, a timing chain is not a
> maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>
I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.

On 6/01/2022 8:34 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:

>> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That means
>> they only should be getting replaced at the time of engine overhaul.
>> There have been some where the tensioners or guides were sub-par and
>> these caused random failure but, generally speaking, a timing chain is
>> not a maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>>
> I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.

There have been *many* engines over the years that have had timing chain
woes, and in fact the popularity of belts these days is due in no small
part to the fact that chains have noise and stretch issues where belts
do not.

It is also not true that chains "typically last the *service life* of
the engine", as many require replacement long before the engine needs to
be. This is especially so on older "cam in block" V8 engines that don't
run a tensioner where it is not at all uncommon for a timing chain to
get so slack that it will jump teeth and stop the engine after the
camshaft goes out of time. But failures are common with more modern
engines too, and especially higher mileage engines with oil pressure fed
tensioners that stop working as well as they once did and slides that
wear out.

Once again Clasener does a great job of showing everyone how little he
actually knows about anything automotive related, and perhaps he might
want to educate himself by reading something like this :)

> https://www.cloyes.com/timing-chain-system-frequently-asked-questions/

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 6/1/22 8:34 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>>>
>>>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>>>
>>>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>>>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>>>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation
>>>> for building anything that is reliable.
>>>>
>>>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional
>>>> engine or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due,
>>>> this looks like a recipe for disaster.
>>>>
>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>
>> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That means
>> they only should be getting replaced at the time of engine overhaul.
>> There have been some where the tensioners or guides were sub-par and
>> these caused random failure but, generally speaking, a timing chain is
>> not a maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>>
> I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.
>
I'm talking about timing chains, *all* timing chains, all cases, service
life is the same as the service life of the engine. I have never seen,
as a scheduled replacement item, the timing chain. Belts, yes, timing
chains, no.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/1/22 9:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 8:34 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:
>
>>> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That means
>>> they only should be getting replaced at the time of engine overhaul.
>>> There have been some where the tensioners or guides were sub-par and
>>> these caused random failure but, generally speaking, a timing chain
>>> is not a maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>>>
>> I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.
>
> There have been *many* engines over the years that have had timing chain
> woes, and in fact the popularity of belts these days is due in no small
> part to the fact that chains have noise and stretch issues where belts
> do not.

So what! Show me a *scheduled timing chain replacement* in any service
maintenance book.
>
> It is also not true that chains "typically last the *service life* of
> the engine", as many require replacement long before the engine needs to

That's right, manufacturers cut corners, like Nissan, and the chain
snaps, guides wear prematurely, etc. In other cases, the engine lasts a
lot longer than average, ie. in case where people do high mileages on
long runs. The manufacturers do not schedule chain replacements.

> be. This is especially so on older "cam in block" V8 engines that don't
> run a tensioner where it is not at all uncommon for a timing chain to
> get so slack that it will jump teeth and stop the engine after the
> camshaft goes out of time. But failures are common with more modern
> engines too, and especially higher mileage engines with oil pressure fed
> tensioners that stop working as well as they once did and slides that
> wear out.
>
> Once again Clasener does a great job of showing everyone how little he
> actually knows about anything automotive related, and perhaps he might
> want to educate himself by reading something like this :)

You are the one lacking education Darren. Failed year 9, failed to
qualify for any apprenticeship, had to *lie* about having done 3 FFS.
>
>> https://www.cloyes.com/timing-chain-system-frequently-asked-questions/

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>
>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>
>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>
>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>
>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>
>>
>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation for
>> building anything that is reliable.
>>
>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional engine
>> or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due, this looks
>> like a recipe for disaster.
>>
> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a maintenance
> item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.

Neither, the question is why is Clocky so full of it.
If he wants to talk about timing chains just ask him about his beloved
Holden's late model V6's.

--
Daryl

On 6/01/2022 8:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 8:34 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:
>
>>> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That means
>>> they only should be getting replaced at the time of engine overhaul.
>>> There have been some where the tensioners or guides were sub-par and
>>> these caused random failure but, generally speaking, a timing chain
>>> is not a maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>>>
>> I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.
>
> There have been *many* engines over the years that have had timing chain
> woes, and in fact the popularity of belts these days is due in no small
> part to the fact that chains have noise and stretch issues where belts
> do not.

Belts have their own problems, I suspect that their popularity has a lot
to do with their price relative to chains.

The little Hillman Imp that I had back in the 70s had a stretched chain,
every so often, it would just stop as the chain had jumped a link. I
just slipped it back and off we went again. Luckily it wasn't an
interference engine.

> It is also not true that chains "typically last the *service life* of
> the engine", as many require replacement long before the engine needs to
> be. This is especially so on older "cam in block" V8 engines that don't
> run a tensioner where it is not at all uncommon for a timing chain to
> get so slack that it will jump teeth and stop the engine after the
> camshaft goes out of time. But failures are common with more modern
> engines too, and especially higher mileage engines with oil pressure fed
> tensioners that stop working as well as they once did and slides that
> wear out.
>
> Once again Clasener does a great job of showing everyone how little he
> actually knows about anything automotive related, and perhaps he might
> want to educate himself by reading something like this :)
>
>> https://www.cloyes.com/timing-chain-system-frequently-asked-questions/
>
>
>
>
>

On 6/1/22 11:13 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 8:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 8:34 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>>> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That means
>>>> they only should be getting replaced at the time of engine overhaul.
>>>> There have been some where the tensioners or guides were sub-par and
>>>> these caused random failure but, generally speaking, a timing chain
>>>> is not a maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>>>>
>>> I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.
>>
>> There have been *many* engines over the years that have had timing
>> chain woes, and in fact the popularity of belts these days is due in
>> no small part to the fact that chains have noise and stretch issues
>> where belts do not.
>
> Belts have their own problems, I suspect that their popularity has a lot
> to do with their price relative to chains.

Another factor in the deployment of belts is the fact that they run
quiet compared to chains. Personally, I'd put up with some chain hum.
The other factor favouring use of belts over chains is likely that it
gives dealers some maintenance to do.
>
> The little Hillman Imp that I had back in the 70s had a stretched chain,
> every so often, it would just stop as the chain had jumped a link. I

They were a very long chain on those. The only time I had that happen
was in a 390 Ford V8 engine. The difference was that it would jump a
tooth, run like shit for a while, then jump back at random and be Ok
again. Long story with that one but, in short, the Indo mechanics were
retiming the distributor each time it jumped a link. That, sadly, didn't
address the real problem. Did I mention the mechanics were *untrained*
and didn't have a clue how it all worked so couldn't diagnose. Wasn't
helped by the fact I didn't speak Indo at the time and they didn't speak
English. It did provide me with the opportunity to *demonstrate* what
was going on, ended up by me forcing it to jump 3 or 4 links to the
point it wouldn't run thus forcing the lads to have a bit of a think.
Frustrating times indeed.

> just slipped it back and off we went again. Luckily it wasn't an
> interference engine.

You were also lucky they were quite easy to do. Mine never had any chain
woes and it was a high mileage beast. Well, high for that era at least.
>
>> It is also not true that chains "typically last the *service life* of
>> the engine", as many require replacement long before the engine needs
>> to be. This is especially so on older "cam in block" V8 engines that
>> don't run a tensioner where it is not at all uncommon for a timing
>> chain to get so slack that it will jump teeth and stop the engine
>> after the camshaft goes out of time. But failures are common with more
>> modern engines too, and especially higher mileage engines with oil
>> pressure fed tensioners that stop working as well as they once did and
>> slides that wear out.
>>
>> Once again Clasener does a great job of showing everyone how little he
>> actually knows about anything automotive related, and perhaps he might
>> want to educate himself by reading something like this :)
>>
>>> https://www.cloyes.com/timing-chain-system-frequently-asked-questions/

Darren fronts up with his bias again. Of course a company that sells
timing chains and associated paraphernalia would advocate a chain
replacement interval. Sadly for Darren, none of the manufacturers
advocate that. My Toyota, for instance, will likely be running on its
original chain, tensioner and guides for my entire ownership of the
vehicle. If I keep it another 5 or 6 years, I expect to have clocked up
something in the order of 300k klms. Given their longevity I don't
expect to need to replace the chain or overhaul the engine. Nissan
Navara owners, on the other hand, will get shed of their vehicle before
clocking up anywhere near that many kilometres.

Anyway, there are many factors that determine the life of a chain.
Lubrication is one, use crap oil expect early failure. Another is the
type of use. Long idle periods do chains (and belts) no good at all.
Extended service intervals are bad news for chains given what happens to
oil under such circumstances.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/01/2022 10:33 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:

>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a maintenance
>> item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>
>
> Neither, the question is why is Clocky so full of it.
> If he wants to talk about timing chains just ask him about his beloved
> Holden's late model V6's.

What a cunt of an engine they were. Not that our resident westy fuckwit
Holden apologist will ever mention anything about that. Remember when he
chucked a *massive* tanty about that article in the paper where the
bloke was told by Holden that high oil consumption between services was
normal?

Reckoned I made the whole thing up, despite you reading the exact same
article I did and it being posted here virtually word for word.

What a fuckwit :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 6/01/2022 11:13 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 8:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 8:34 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>>> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That means
>>>> they only should be getting replaced at the time of engine overhaul.
>>>> There have been some where the tensioners or guides were sub-par and
>>>> these caused random failure but, generally speaking, a timing chain
>>>> is not a maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>>>>
>>> I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.
>>
>> There have been *many* engines over the years that have had timing
>> chain woes, and in fact the popularity of belts these days is due in
>> no small part to the fact that chains have noise and stretch issues
>> where belts do not.
>
> Belts have their own problems, I suspect that their popularity has a lot
> to do with their price relative to chains.

Belts do have their problems, but NVH issues, or the lack of them, are a
definite plus. Getting around the noise issue associated with chains was
a big factor, and the difference between a Mitsubishi chain and belt
driven engine is all anyone needs to hear to see that :)

I'm not sure that cost was a significant consideration, as each type has
it's own peculiarities that need to be contended with.

> The little Hillman Imp that I had back in the 70s had a stretched chain,
> every so often, it would just stop as the chain had jumped a link. I
> just slipped it back and off we went again. Luckily it wasn't an
> interference engine.

It's a common problem with V8 engines as well, but unfortunately they're
not as easy to get going again.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 6/01/2022 3:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>
>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>
>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>
>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>
>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>
>>
>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation for
>> building anything that is reliable.
>>
>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional engine
>> or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due, this looks
>> like a recipe for disaster.
>>
> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a maintenance
> item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.

They were failing from as low as 40,000km to 100,000km when they were
supposed to last the life of the engine.

It's interesting to note that the fraud reckoned Holden should have
recalled Commodores for having chains that needed replacing at around
170,000km... yet he defends Nissan with an appalling track record.

You don't have to believe me, just google YD25 and timing chain and see
for yourself.

On 6/01/2022 5:34 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>>>
>>>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>>>
>>>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>>>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>>>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation
>>>> for building anything that is reliable.
>>>>
>>>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional
>>>> engine or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due,
>>>> this looks like a recipe for disaster.
>>>>
>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>
>> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That means
>> they only should be getting replaced at the time of engine overhaul.
>> There have been some where the tensioners or guides were sub-par and
>> these caused random failure but, generally speaking, a timing chain is
>> not a maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>>
> I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.
>

No timing chain is a maintenance item at 40,000km-100,000km. It's too
expensive a job for that. They would often fail with little warning. On
some models Nissan even tried to fob off complaints of chain noise with
a "yes, they are noisy that's just how they are" but several class
action lawsuits found otherwise.

On 6/01/2022 10:32 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 11:45 am, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
>> On Wednesday, 5 January 2022 at 12:27:18 UTC+11, Xeno wrote:
>
>>>
>>> So, in reality, the Commer TS3 was a much simpler engine than a typical
>>> 4 stroke and even simpler than the GM 2 stroke diesel which had 4 valves
>>> per cylinder, all exhaust valves, and the camshaft even ran the unit
>>> injectors. Crank rockers don't add up to a lot of complexity Darren and,
>>> had you actually ever worked on one, you would realise this. Back to
>>> Google for you.
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>   No point, *you* have decimated the resource.
>
> *Jesus* this fucking clueless attention whore will invent any kind of
> ridiculous bullshit to waffle on, won't it?
>
> I never said the Commer "Knocker" engine was complicated. I said the
> Nissan engine reminded me of it in some ways, and that it was no more or
> less complicated.
>
> Fair dimkum, this useless piece of unicorn riding shit couldn't
> comprehend basic language if you wrote it on a cricket bat and smashed
> him in the face with it.
>
>
>

"Fair dimkum, this useless piece of unicorn riding shit couldn't
comprehend basic language"

LOL, you dumbarse!

So desperate for support are you that you're leaning on the dumbest
person in the history of usenet for support, the bloke you labeled the
'village idiot'. It's hilarious!

On 7/1/22 12:30 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 11:13 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 8:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 6/01/2022 8:34 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That means
>>>>> they only should be getting replaced at the time of engine
>>>>> overhaul. There have been some where the tensioners or guides were
>>>>> sub-par and these caused random failure but, generally speaking, a
>>>>> timing chain is not a maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>>>>>
>>>> I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.
>>>
>>> There have been *many* engines over the years that have had timing
>>> chain woes, and in fact the popularity of belts these days is due in
>>> no small part to the fact that chains have noise and stretch issues
>>> where belts do not.
>>
>> Belts have their own problems, I suspect that their popularity has a
>> lot to do with their price relative to chains.
>
> Belts do have their problems, but NVH issues, or the lack of them, are a

Noise issues only Darren. Try not to use irrelevant acronyms.

> definite plus. Getting around the noise issue associated with chains was
> a big factor, and the difference between a Mitsubishi chain and belt
> driven engine is all anyone needs to hear to see that :)

No Darren, all they need to hear is a Navara engine in its death throes
to know that a poorly designed chain system can be noisy, very noisy.
>
> I'm not sure that cost was a significant consideration, as each type has
> it's own peculiarities that need to be contended with.
>
>> The little Hillman Imp that I had back in the 70s had a stretched
>> chain, every so often, it would just stop as the chain had jumped a
>> link. I just slipped it back and off we went again. Luckily it wasn't
>> an interference engine.
>
> It's a common problem with V8 engines as well, but unfortunately they're
> not as easy to get going again.
>
>
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/1/22 12:22 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 10:33 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>
>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>
>>
>> Neither, the question is why is Clocky so full of it.
>> If he wants to talk about timing chains just ask him about his beloved
>> Holden's late model V6's.
>
> What a cunt of an engine they were. Not that our resident westy fuckwit
> Holden apologist will ever mention anything about that. Remember when he
> chucked a *massive* tanty about that article in the paper where the
> bloke was told by Holden that high oil consumption between services was
> normal?
>
> Reckoned I made the whole thing up, despite you reading the exact same
> article I did and it being posted here virtually word for word.
>
> What a fuckwit :)
>
>
>
I also remembered a big mistake that Nissan made, they fitted the Holden
family 2 Camira engine into some early Pulsars, if anyone thinks Nissan
is crap just fit a Holden engine and its even worse:-)

--
Daryl