On 6/01/2022 8:13 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 8:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 8:34 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>>> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That means
>>>> they only should be getting replaced at the time of engine overhaul.
>>>> There have been some where the tensioners or guides were sub-par and
>>>> these caused random failure but, generally speaking, a timing chain
>>>> is not a maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>>>>
>>> I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.
>>
>> There have been *many* engines over the years that have had timing
>> chain woes, and in fact the popularity of belts these days is due in
>> no small part to the fact that chains have noise and stretch issues
>> where belts do not.
>
> Belts have their own problems, I suspect that their popularity has a lot
> to do with their price relative to chains.
>

Belts can break without warning and must be replaced at the correct
time/distance. They are a service item. Chains are not considered a
service item.

Belts were an issue with the Opel/Holden Astra/Vectra. The interval
initially was set at 90,000km however many belts were breaking before
they were due for replacement. Repairing bent valves got quite expensive
for Holden as you can imagine so the interval was reduced to 60,000km,
stickers put in existing handbooks and problem solved.

Well, except owners got to wear the increased running costs of course.

When the fraud belatedly learnt of the Navara YD25 issue in here
(looooong after every real mechanic working in the real trade was well
aware of it) he tried first to deny it, acting as the apologist for
Nissan which was odd since Nissan had already acknowledged that they had
dropped the ball and got it very, very wrong.

How we laughed :-)

> The little Hillman Imp that I had back in the 70s had a stretched chain,
> every so often, it would just stop as the chain had jumped a link. I
> just slipped it back and off we went again. Luckily it wasn't an
> interference engine.

On 7/01/2022 1:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 7/1/22 12:22 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 10:33 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>
>>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>>
>>>
>>> Neither, the question is why is Clocky so full of it.
>>> If he wants to talk about timing chains just ask him about his
>>> beloved Holden's late model V6's.
>>
>> What a cunt of an engine they were. Not that our resident westy
>> fuckwit Holden apologist will ever mention anything about that.
>> Remember when he chucked a *massive* tanty about that article in the
>> paper where the bloke was told by Holden that high oil consumption
>> between services was normal?
>>
>> Reckoned I made the whole thing up, despite you reading the exact same
>> article I did and it being posted here virtually word for word.
>>
>> What a fuckwit :)
>>
>>
>>
> I also remembered a big mistake that Nissan made, they fitted the Holden
> family 2 Camira engine into some early Pulsars, if anyone thinks Nissan
> is crap just fit a Holden engine and its even worse:-)

Lol :)

Nissan is no better or worse than anyone else. They've made their great
cars and made their shitheaps as well. Of course, if you listen to the
insane ranting of the fixated mongs around here you don't need to be
Einstein to work out why the the heavy criticism of Nissan just happens
to coincide with me owning one.

Same thing happened when I owned the Rodeo which, despite all the doom
and gloom predictions, nothing ever went wrong with it and it's still
kicking around in Bacchus to this day. I wonder what bizarre fucked up
ranting they'll come up with to criticize whatever brand I buy next?

Just for shits and giggles I should fuck them all right in the arse by
buying a Hi-Lux and giving them nothing to whinge about :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 7/1/22 1:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 7/01/2022 1:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 7/1/22 12:22 am, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 6/01/2022 10:33 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neither, the question is why is Clocky so full of it.
>>>> If he wants to talk about timing chains just ask him about his
>>>> beloved Holden's late model V6's.
>>>
>>> What a cunt of an engine they were. Not that our resident westy
>>> fuckwit Holden apologist will ever mention anything about that.
>>> Remember when he chucked a *massive* tanty about that article in the
>>> paper where the bloke was told by Holden that high oil consumption
>>> between services was normal?
>>>
>>> Reckoned I made the whole thing up, despite you reading the exact
>>> same article I did and it being posted here virtually word for word.
>>>
>>> What a fuckwit :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I also remembered a big mistake that Nissan made, they fitted the
>> Holden family 2 Camira engine into some early Pulsars, if anyone
>> thinks Nissan is crap just fit a Holden engine and its even worse:-)
>
> Lol :)
>
> Nissan is no better or worse than anyone else. They've made their great
> cars and made their shitheaps as well. Of course, if you listen to the
> insane ranting of the fixated mongs around here you don't need to be
> Einstein to work out why the the heavy criticism of Nissan just happens
> to coincide with me owning one.
>
> Same thing happened when I owned the Rodeo which, despite all the doom
> and gloom predictions, nothing ever went wrong with it and it's still
> kicking around in Bacchus to this day. I wonder what bizarre fucked up
> ranting they'll come up with to criticize whatever brand I buy next?
>
> Just for shits and giggles I should fuck them all right in the arse by
> buying a Hi-Lux and giving them nothing to whinge about :)
>
That would be a *first*. The first time you ever showed any
intelligence, that is. I'd applaud that, even with you doing it!

As for whinging, that would be your caper, along with lying and
bullshit. You will *always* give others cause for comment, you can't
help yourself since lying and bullshit come naturally to you.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/01/2022 12:01 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 3:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>>
>>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>>
>>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>>
>>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>>
>>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation
>>> for building anything that is reliable.
>>>
>>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional
>>> engine or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due, this
>>> looks like a recipe for disaster.
>>>
>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a maintenance
>> item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>
>
> They were failing from as low as 40,000km to 100,000km when they were
> supposed to last the life of the engine.
>
> It's interesting to note that the fraud reckoned Holden should have
> recalled Commodores for having chains that needed replacing at around
> 170,000km... yet he defends Nissan with an appalling track record.
>
> You don't have to believe me, just google YD25 and timing chain and see
> for yourself.

This one doesn't seem to talk about 40K failures, "We have heard of
failures as low as 70,000 km" referring to the fuel pump drive chain
rather than the camshaft one. They refer to early life failures with
cheap third party chains.

https://yd25.com.au/index.php/services/diagnose-timing-chain-fault/manual-method

On 7/1/22 1:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 7/01/2022 1:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 7/1/22 12:22 am, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 6/01/2022 10:33 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neither, the question is why is Clocky so full of it.
>>>> If he wants to talk about timing chains just ask him about his
>>>> beloved Holden's late model V6's.
>>>
>>> What a cunt of an engine they were. Not that our resident westy
>>> fuckwit Holden apologist will ever mention anything about that.
>>> Remember when he chucked a *massive* tanty about that article in the
>>> paper where the bloke was told by Holden that high oil consumption
>>> between services was normal?
>>>
>>> Reckoned I made the whole thing up, despite you reading the exact
>>> same article I did and it being posted here virtually word for word.
>>>
>>> What a fuckwit :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I also remembered a big mistake that Nissan made, they fitted the
>> Holden family 2 Camira engine into some early Pulsars, if anyone
>> thinks Nissan is crap just fit a Holden engine and its even worse:-)
>
> Lol :)
>
> Nissan is no better or worse than anyone else. They've made their great
> cars and made their shitheaps as well. Of course, if you listen to the
> insane ranting of the fixated mongs around here you don't need to be
> Einstein to work out why the the heavy criticism of Nissan just happens
> to coincide with me owning one.
>
> Same thing happened when I owned the Rodeo which, despite all the doom
> and gloom predictions, nothing ever went wrong with it and it's still
> kicking around in Bacchus to this day. I wonder what bizarre fucked up
> ranting they'll come up with to criticize whatever brand I buy next?
>
> Just for shits and giggles I should fuck them all right in the arse by
> buying a Hi-Lux and giving them nothing to whinge about :)
>
>

ROTFL, that would fuck em:-)

--
Daryl

On 7/1/22 11:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 7/1/22 1:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 7/01/2022 1:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 7/1/22 12:22 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 6/01/2022 10:33 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>>>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Neither, the question is why is Clocky so full of it.
>>>>> If he wants to talk about timing chains just ask him about his
>>>>> beloved Holden's late model V6's.
>>>>
>>>> What a cunt of an engine they were. Not that our resident westy
>>>> fuckwit Holden apologist will ever mention anything about that.
>>>> Remember when he chucked a *massive* tanty about that article in the
>>>> paper where the bloke was told by Holden that high oil consumption
>>>> between services was normal?
>>>>
>>>> Reckoned I made the whole thing up, despite you reading the exact
>>>> same article I did and it being posted here virtually word for word.
>>>>
>>>> What a fuckwit :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I also remembered a big mistake that Nissan made, they fitted the
>>> Holden family 2 Camira engine into some early Pulsars, if anyone
>>> thinks Nissan is crap just fit a Holden engine and its even worse:-)
>>
>> Lol :)
>>
>> Nissan is no better or worse than anyone else. They've made their
>> great cars and made their shitheaps as well. Of course, if you listen
>> to the insane ranting of the fixated mongs around here you don't need
>> to be Einstein to work out why the the heavy criticism of Nissan just
>> happens to coincide with me owning one.
>>
>> Same thing happened when I owned the Rodeo which, despite all the doom
>> and gloom predictions, nothing ever went wrong with it and it's still
>> kicking around in Bacchus to this day. I wonder what bizarre fucked up
>> ranting they'll come up with to criticize whatever brand I buy next?
>>
>> Just for shits and giggles I should fuck them all right in the arse by
>> buying a Hi-Lux and giving them nothing to whinge about :)
>>
>>
>
> ROTFL, that would fuck em:-)
>
>
Ah No, it wouldn't. It would mean Darren finally found a clue. It would
have to have been handed to him on a platter since Darren wouldn't be
able to get a clue even if he was in a field full of clues, had covered
himself in clue musk, and was doing the clue mating dance.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 13:34:08 +1100, Noddy wrote:

> On 7/01/2022 1:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 7/1/22 12:22 am, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 6/01/2022 10:33 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>
>>>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Neither, the question is why is Clocky so full of it.
>>>> If he wants to talk about timing chains just ask him about his
>>>> beloved Holden's late model V6's.
>>>
>>> What a cunt of an engine they were. Not that our resident westy
>>> fuckwit Holden apologist will ever mention anything about that.
>>> Remember when he chucked a *massive* tanty about that article in the
>>> paper where the bloke was told by Holden that high oil consumption
>>> between services was normal?
>>>
>>> Reckoned I made the whole thing up, despite you reading the exact same
>>> article I did and it being posted here virtually word for word.
>>>
>>> What a fuckwit :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> I also remembered a big mistake that Nissan made, they fitted the Holden
>> family 2 Camira engine into some early Pulsars, if anyone thinks Nissan
>> is crap just fit a Holden engine and its even worse:-)
>
> Lol :)
>
> Nissan is no better or worse than anyone else. They've made their great
> cars and made their shitheaps as well. Of course, if you listen to the
> insane ranting of the fixated mongs around here you don't need to be
> Einstein to work out why the the heavy criticism of Nissan just happens
> to coincide with me owning one.
>
> Same thing happened when I owned the Rodeo which, despite all the doom
> and gloom predictions, nothing ever went wrong with it and it's still
> kicking around in Bacchus to this day. I wonder what bizarre fucked up
> ranting they'll come up with to criticize whatever brand I buy next?
>
> Just for shits and giggles I should fuck them all right in the arse by
> buying a Hi-Lux and giving them nothing to whinge about :)

Wrong yet again Fraudster.
Pointing out your lies, hypocrisy, frauds and cowardice *isn't* whinging.

Btw, I assume that you'll be buying another well used Bunningsmobile. New
ones being way too expensive for you *and* the delivery wait times for Hi
Luxes et al are now being measured in years.

alvey

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 23:40:13 +1100, Daryl wrote:

> On 7/1/22 1:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 7/01/2022 1:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 7/1/22 12:22 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 6/01/2022 10:33 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>>>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Neither, the question is why is Clocky so full of it.
>>>>> If he wants to talk about timing chains just ask him about his
>>>>> beloved Holden's late model V6's.
>>>>
>>>> What a cunt of an engine they were. Not that our resident westy
>>>> fuckwit Holden apologist will ever mention anything about that.
>>>> Remember when he chucked a *massive* tanty about that article in the
>>>> paper where the bloke was told by Holden that high oil consumption
>>>> between services was normal?
>>>>
>>>> Reckoned I made the whole thing up, despite you reading the exact
>>>> same article I did and it being posted here virtually word for word.
>>>>
>>>> What a fuckwit :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>> I also remembered a big mistake that Nissan made, they fitted the
>>> Holden family 2 Camira engine into some early Pulsars, if anyone
>>> thinks Nissan is crap just fit a Holden engine and its even worse:-)
>>
>> Lol :)
>>
>> Nissan is no better or worse than anyone else. They've made their great
>> cars and made their shitheaps as well. Of course, if you listen to the
>> insane ranting of the fixated mongs around here you don't need to be
>> Einstein to work out why the the heavy criticism of Nissan just happens
>> to coincide with me owning one.
>>
>> Same thing happened when I owned the Rodeo which, despite all the doom
>> and gloom predictions, nothing ever went wrong with it and it's still
>> kicking around in Bacchus to this day. I wonder what bizarre fucked up
>> ranting they'll come up with to criticize whatever brand I buy next?
>>
>> Just for shits and giggles I should fuck them all right in the arse by
>> buying a Hi-Lux and giving them nothing to whinge about :)
>>
>
> ROTFL, that would fuck em:-)

I don't believe it. Deryl is actually getting stupider.

Seen Fraudsters' Grange collection *yet* Deryl?
How about his certs?
Happy snaps of NA of A?
etc etc etc

alvey

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 6/01/2022 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>
>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>
>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>
>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>
>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>
>>
>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation
>> for building anything that is reliable.
>>
>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional
>> engine or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due, this
>> looks like a recipe for disaster.
>>
> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a maintenance
> item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.

it would be a poorly designed engine if the timing chain needs replacing
that soon/often.

--
"his opinions have been crushed into insignificant dust by
the enormous weight of his lies"- Alvey on the Fraudster

On 7/01/2022 12:16 am, Xeno wrote:
> On 6/1/22 11:13 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 8:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 6/01/2022 8:34 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>
>>>>> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That
>>>>> means they only should be getting replaced at the time of engine
>>>>> overhaul. There have been some where the tensioners or guides were
>>>>> sub-par and these caused random failure but, generally speaking, a
>>>>> timing chain is not a maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>>>>>
>>>> I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.
>>>
>>> There have been *many* engines over the years that have had timing
>>> chain woes, and in fact the popularity of belts these days is due in
>>> no small part to the fact that chains have noise and stretch issues
>>> where belts do not.
>>
>> Belts have their own problems, I suspect that their popularity has a
>> lot to do with their price relative to chains.
>
> Another factor in the deployment of belts is the fact that they run
> quiet compared to chains. Personally, I'd put up with some chain hum.
> The other factor favouring use of belts over chains is likely that it
> gives dealers some maintenance to do.
>>
>> The little Hillman Imp that I had back in the 70s had a stretched
>> chain, every so often, it would just stop as the chain had jumped a
>> link. I
>
> They were a very long chain on those. The only time I had that happen
> was in a 390 Ford V8 engine. The difference was that it would jump a
> tooth, run like shit for a while, then jump back at random and be Ok
> again. Long story with that one but, in short, the Indo mechanics were
> retiming the distributor each time it jumped a link. That, sadly,
> didn't address the real problem. Did I mention the mechanics were
> *untrained* and didn't have a clue how it all worked so couldn't
> diagnose. Wasn't helped by the fact I didn't speak Indo at the time
> and they didn't speak English. It did provide me with the opportunity
> to *demonstrate* what was going on, ended up by me forcing it to jump
> 3 or 4 links to the point it wouldn't run thus forcing the lads to
> have a bit of a think. Frustrating times indeed.
>
>> just slipped it back and off we went again. Luckily it wasn't an
>> interference engine.
>
> You were also lucky they were quite easy to do. Mine never had any
> chain woes and it was a high mileage beast. Well, high for that era at
> least.
>>
>>> It is also not true that chains "typically last the *service life*
>>> of the engine", as many require replacement long before the engine
>>> needs to be. This is especially so on older "cam in block" V8
>>> engines that don't run a tensioner where it is not at all uncommon
>>> for a timing chain to get so slack that it will jump teeth and stop
>>> the engine after the camshaft goes out of time. But failures are
>>> common with more modern engines too, and especially higher mileage
>>> engines with oil pressure fed tensioners that stop working as well
>>> as they once did and slides that wear out.
>>>
>>> Once again Clasener does a great job of showing everyone how little
>>> he actually knows about anything automotive related, and perhaps he
>>> might want to educate himself by reading something like this :)
>>>
>>>> https://www.cloyes.com/timing-chain-system-frequently-asked-questions/
>
> Darren fronts up with his bias again. Of course a company that sells
> timing chains and associated paraphernalia would advocate a chain
> replacement interval. Sadly for Darren, none of the manufacturers
> advocate that. My Toyota, for instance, will likely be running on its
> original chain, tensioner and guides for my entire ownership of the
> vehicle. If I keep it another 5 or 6 years, I expect to have clocked
> up something in the order of 300k klms. Given their longevity I don't
> expect to need to replace the chain or overhaul the engine. Nissan
> Navara owners, on the other hand, will get shed of their vehicle
> before clocking up anywhere near that many kilometres.
>
> Anyway, there are many factors that determine the life of a chain.
> Lubrication is one, use crap oil expect early failure. Another is the
> type of use. Long idle periods do chains (and belts) no good at all.
> Extended service intervals are bad news for chains given what happens
> to oil under such circumstances.
>

I was surprised to see that drive belts on the Lancer engine are
exposed.  injury could easily be caused to some inattentive or careless
person poking around or working on the engine with it running

--
"his opinions have been crushed into insignificant dust by
the enormous weight of his lies"- Alvey on the Fraudster

On 8/01/2022 7:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>>
>>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>>
>>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>>
>>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>>
>>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation
>>> for building anything that is reliable.
>>>
>>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional
>>> engine or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due, this
>>> looks like a recipe for disaster.
>>>
>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a maintenance
>> item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>
>
> it would be a poorly designed engine if the timing chain needs replacing
> that soon/often.
>
Or, more likely, poorly manufactured chains. BTW an item unlikely to be
made by the engine manufacturer.

On 8/01/2022 11:00 am, keithr0 wrote:
> On 8/01/2022 7:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:

>> it would be a poorly designed engine if the timing chain needs
>> replacing that soon/often.
>>
> Or, more likely, poorly manufactured chains. BTW an item unlikely to be
> made by the engine manufacturer.

They outsource lots of stuff, and chains would be one of them.

*All* manufacturers have their occasional issues and this is nothing
new. In recent years the number of problems we've seen in modern cars is
*immense*, and no one is immune to it. Toyota has had issues with stuck
throttles and dodgy steering. Ford, and others, have had problems with
their transmissions. CVT gearboxes have proven less than stellar while
virtually everyone who has made a DSG style gearbox has had some degree
of trouble. Holden had *many* problems with their V6 engines not the
least of which was massive oil consumption and timing chain issues.
Subaru are known for their head gasket dramas and Mazda's istop system
is *plagued* with problems.

No one makes a perfect car, and singling out one manufacturer for
problems while ignoring those of everyone else is nothing short of
juvenile name calling. It's also ridiculously stupid to assume that an
item like a timing chain should last the "life of the engine" because
it's not a regular service item.

Water pumps, alternators, wheel bearings and mufflers, amongst a myriad
of other parts, aren't regular service items either, but few of them
will ever last the life of the car. They get changed when they come to
the end of their service life, and timing chains are no different.

To suggest otherwise is to demonstrate a complete lack of mechanical
understanding and experience.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 8/1/22 11:00 am, keithr0 wrote:
> On 8/01/2022 7:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>>>
>>>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>>>
>>>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>>>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>>>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation
>>>> for building anything that is reliable.
>>>>
>>>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional
>>>> engine or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due,
>>>> this looks like a recipe for disaster.
>>>>
>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>
>>
>> it would be a poorly designed engine if the timing chain needs
>> replacing that soon/often.
>>
> Or, more likely, poorly manufactured chains. BTW an item unlikely to be
> made by the engine manufacturer.

The manufacturer is responsible for supplying the chain specs to the
OEM. The manufacturer is responsible for ensuring that OEM suppliers
meet manufacturers specs. I know this in detail from my wife's
experience working for a number of automotive OEM suppliers; HPG
Engineering, AI Automotive & Total Tooling to name just 3. Wife had some
trips to Altona and Broadmeadows for *reworking* of supplied components.
The companies she worked for supplied to the three majors, Holden,
Toyota and Ford, so she has had experience with the *quality standards*
of all three. And they are all very strict! For what it's worth, chain
and sprocket specifications are well known and well documented. With
current computer technology, chain loadings can be easily calculated.
What happened with the Nissan likely occurred due to *cost cutting* post
design stage by accountants who haven't a clue.

Back in the days of the Mitsubishi Sigma, their engines were well known
for a relatively short timing chain life. If you replaced them with an
OEM chain, you would get a reasonable run. If you used an aftermarket
chain, you would be lucky to get 50k before the rattles commenced. And
there's a hell of a lot of sub par aftermarket components out there
today courtesy of shonky Chinese manufacturers.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/1/22 11:25 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/01/2022 11:00 am, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 8/01/2022 7:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>
>>> it would be a poorly designed engine if the timing chain needs
>>> replacing that soon/often.
>>>
>> Or, more likely, poorly manufactured chains. BTW an item unlikely to
>> be made by the engine manufacturer.
>
> They outsource lots of stuff, and chains would be one of them.
>
> *All* manufacturers have their occasional issues and this is nothing
> new. In recent years the number of problems we've seen in modern cars is
> *immense*, and no one is immune to it. Toyota has had issues with stuck
> throttles and dodgy steering. Ford, and others, have had problems with
> their transmissions. CVT gearboxes have proven less than stellar while

Ahem, Aisin CVT transmissions, as used in Toyotas, have proven
exemplary. Don't judge all CVTs by the crap Nissan/Jatco put into the
market.

> virtually everyone who has made a DSG style gearbox has had some degree
> of trouble. Holden had *many* problems with their V6 engines not the
> least of which was massive oil consumption and timing chain issues.
> Subaru are known for their head gasket dramas and Mazda's istop system
> is *plagued* with problems.

Subaru designed the *block* poorly, head gasket issues could be
*expected* given their open deck design. The first thing they did wrong
was to design the 2.5 litre engines to fit into the footprint of the
smaller 2 litre engines. That compromised cylinder space and *cooling*.
The open deck design just aggravated those cooling issues.
Toyota has had no problems with their start stop system as used on
Hybrids. That's because they *avoided* the unnecessary complexity
associated with using conventional type starters in conjunction with
combustion start technology. You were the clown who thought that Mazda
starter was just an ordinary starter motor, IIRC. That clearly shows you
have no mechanical understanding of the issues involved - including the
fact that it is an *intelligent starting system* capable of being
engaged whilst the engine is still turning with all the speed matching
issues that little detail involves.
>
> No one makes a perfect car, and singling out one manufacturer for
> problems while ignoring those of everyone else is nothing short of
> juvenile name calling. It's also ridiculously stupid to assume that an
> item like a timing chain should last the "life of the engine" because
> it's not a regular service item.

The timing chain *should* last the *service life* of the engine, that's
a given and the evidence is in the fact that *chain replacement* isn't
in any service schedules as a *maintenance item*. By the way, the
service life of an engine is that life up to the first overhaul. I don't
expect my Toyota to have chain issues until the engine is pretty much
worn out. IOW, I expect 300k to 400k from it. Nissan owner's mileage
obviously varies, especially since they don't even manage a quarter of
that lifetime. As I said before, the Nissan owners here are proving the
point by not making a Nissan their next vehicle. Once bitten, twice shy!

LOL
>
> Water pumps, alternators, wheel bearings and mufflers, amongst a myriad
> of other parts, aren't regular service items either, but few of them
> will ever last the life of the car. They get changed when they come to
> the end of their service life, and timing chains are no different.

They are *all* external to the engine so irrelevant to the current
discussion. IOW, they *are different* to timing chains. FFS, wheel
bearings and mufflers aren't even *in the engine* whilst water pumps and
alternators are ancillary devices attached externally to the engine. In
most cases, these devices are easily serviced.
>
> To suggest otherwise is to demonstrate a complete lack of mechanical
> understanding and experience.

Mechanical understanding and experience - both areas in which you are
distinctly lacking. That's because you couldn't make the grade as a
mechanic! FFS, you didn't even qualify to sign up as an apprentice *in
any field*. Didn't stop you lying about it though, did it?

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/1/22 8:37 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 7/01/2022 12:16 am, Xeno wrote:
>> On 6/1/22 11:13 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 6/01/2022 8:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 6/01/2022 8:34 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 6/01/2022 6:04 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Typically, chains last the *service life* of the engine. That
>>>>>> means they only should be getting replaced at the time of engine
>>>>>> overhaul. There have been some where the tensioners or guides were
>>>>>> sub-par and these caused random failure but, generally speaking, a
>>>>>> timing chain is not a maintenance item, however timing belts are.
>>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not talking about in general, I'm talking about this case.
>>>>
>>>> There have been *many* engines over the years that have had timing
>>>> chain woes, and in fact the popularity of belts these days is due in
>>>> no small part to the fact that chains have noise and stretch issues
>>>> where belts do not.
>>>
>>> Belts have their own problems, I suspect that their popularity has a
>>> lot to do with their price relative to chains.
>>
>> Another factor in the deployment of belts is the fact that they run
>> quiet compared to chains. Personally, I'd put up with some chain hum.
>> The other factor favouring use of belts over chains is likely that it
>> gives dealers some maintenance to do.
>>>
>>> The little Hillman Imp that I had back in the 70s had a stretched
>>> chain, every so often, it would just stop as the chain had jumped a
>>> link. I
>>
>> They were a very long chain on those. The only time I had that happen
>> was in a 390 Ford V8 engine. The difference was that it would jump a
>> tooth, run like shit for a while, then jump back at random and be Ok
>> again. Long story with that one but, in short, the Indo mechanics were
>> retiming the distributor each time it jumped a link. That, sadly,
>> didn't address the real problem. Did I mention the mechanics were
>> *untrained* and didn't have a clue how it all worked so couldn't
>> diagnose. Wasn't helped by the fact I didn't speak Indo at the time
>> and they didn't speak English. It did provide me with the opportunity
>> to *demonstrate* what was going on, ended up by me forcing it to jump
>> 3 or 4 links to the point it wouldn't run thus forcing the lads to
>> have a bit of a think. Frustrating times indeed.
>>
>>> just slipped it back and off we went again. Luckily it wasn't an
>>> interference engine.
>>
>> You were also lucky they were quite easy to do. Mine never had any
>> chain woes and it was a high mileage beast. Well, high for that era at
>> least.
>>>
>>>> It is also not true that chains "typically last the *service life*
>>>> of the engine", as many require replacement long before the engine
>>>> needs to be. This is especially so on older "cam in block" V8
>>>> engines that don't run a tensioner where it is not at all uncommon
>>>> for a timing chain to get so slack that it will jump teeth and stop
>>>> the engine after the camshaft goes out of time. But failures are
>>>> common with more modern engines too, and especially higher mileage
>>>> engines with oil pressure fed tensioners that stop working as well
>>>> as they once did and slides that wear out.
>>>>
>>>> Once again Clasener does a great job of showing everyone how little
>>>> he actually knows about anything automotive related, and perhaps he
>>>> might want to educate himself by reading something like this :)
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.cloyes.com/timing-chain-system-frequently-asked-questions/
>>
>> Darren fronts up with his bias again. Of course a company that sells
>> timing chains and associated paraphernalia would advocate a chain
>> replacement interval. Sadly for Darren, none of the manufacturers
>> advocate that. My Toyota, for instance, will likely be running on its
>> original chain, tensioner and guides for my entire ownership of the
>> vehicle. If I keep it another 5 or 6 years, I expect to have clocked
>> up something in the order of 300k klms. Given their longevity I don't
>> expect to need to replace the chain or overhaul the engine. Nissan
>> Navara owners, on the other hand, will get shed of their vehicle
>> before clocking up anywhere near that many kilometres.
>>
>> Anyway, there are many factors that determine the life of a chain.
>> Lubrication is one, use crap oil expect early failure. Another is the
>> type of use. Long idle periods do chains (and belts) no good at all.
>> Extended service intervals are bad news for chains given what happens
>> to oil under such circumstances.
>>
>
> I was surprised to see that drive belts on the Lancer engine are
> exposed.  injury could easily be caused to some inattentive or careless
> person poking around or working on the engine with it running
>
Darwin's theory of evolution at work.

They will only do it once, it has to be said.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/1/22 6:57 am, alvey wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Jan 2022 23:40:13 +1100, Daryl wrote:
>
>> On 7/1/22 1:34 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 7/01/2022 1:19 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 7/1/22 12:22 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>>> On 6/01/2022 10:33 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/1/22 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>>>>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Neither, the question is why is Clocky so full of it.
>>>>>> If he wants to talk about timing chains just ask him about his
>>>>>> beloved Holden's late model V6's.
>>>>>
>>>>> What a cunt of an engine they were. Not that our resident westy
>>>>> fuckwit Holden apologist will ever mention anything about that.
>>>>> Remember when he chucked a *massive* tanty about that article in the
>>>>> paper where the bloke was told by Holden that high oil consumption
>>>>> between services was normal?
>>>>>
>>>>> Reckoned I made the whole thing up, despite you reading the exact
>>>>> same article I did and it being posted here virtually word for word.
>>>>>
>>>>> What a fuckwit :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I also remembered a big mistake that Nissan made, they fitted the
>>>> Holden family 2 Camira engine into some early Pulsars, if anyone
>>>> thinks Nissan is crap just fit a Holden engine and its even worse:-)
>>>
>>> Lol :)
>>>
>>> Nissan is no better or worse than anyone else. They've made their great
>>> cars and made their shitheaps as well. Of course, if you listen to the
>>> insane ranting of the fixated mongs around here you don't need to be
>>> Einstein to work out why the the heavy criticism of Nissan just happens
>>> to coincide with me owning one.
>>>
>>> Same thing happened when I owned the Rodeo which, despite all the doom
>>> and gloom predictions, nothing ever went wrong with it and it's still
>>> kicking around in Bacchus to this day. I wonder what bizarre fucked up
>>> ranting they'll come up with to criticize whatever brand I buy next?
>>>
>>> Just for shits and giggles I should fuck them all right in the arse by
>>> buying a Hi-Lux and giving them nothing to whinge about :)
>>>
>>
>> ROTFL, that would fuck em:-)
>
> I don't believe it. Deryl is actually getting stupider.

Nah, he is just putting it on display more often is all.
>
> Seen Fraudsters' Grange collection *yet* Deryl?
> How about his certs?
> Happy snaps of NA of A?
> etc etc etc
>
>
> alvey
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 11:25:09 +1100, Noddy wrote:

>
> No one makes a perfect car, and singling out one manufacturer for
> problems while ignoring those of everyone else is nothing short of
> juvenile name calling.

Gawd! It's bad enough that you're a hyper-hypocrite Der Der, but do you
have to be so insanely half-witted about it?

"Anyone who genuinely considered handing over their coin for a new Alfa
on the basis of it being a "reliable" choice is about as pig ignorant
dumb as you can get while still having a pulse".

"Alfa has ever made a "magnificent" car in the entire 100 odd years
they've been in business, and certainly they have *never* made anything
that could even *remotely* be considered reliable."

Buffoon.

alvey

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 8/1/22 8:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>>
>>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>>
>>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>>
>>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>>
>>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation
>>> for building anything that is reliable.
>>>
>>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional
>>> engine or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due, this
>>> looks like a recipe for disaster.
>>>
>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a maintenance
>> item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>
>
> it would be a poorly designed engine if the timing chain needs replacing
> that soon/often.
>
No doubt when the company was in financial strife, they cut a few
corners - a few too many - and paid the price. From what I read, the fix
is easy - heavier duty chain, sprockets and associated bits.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/1/22 1:05 pm, alvey wrote:
> On Sat, 8 Jan 2022 11:25:09 +1100, Noddy wrote:
>
>>
>> No one makes a perfect car, and singling out one manufacturer for
>> problems while ignoring those of everyone else is nothing short of
>> juvenile name calling.
>
> Gawd! It's bad enough that you're a hyper-hypocrite Der Der, but do you
> have to be so insanely half-witted about it?

Darren can't help himself - it comes naturally to him. Had he not been
such a half-wit, he might actually have qualified for an apprenticeship
and not had to *invent* a career in the automotive industry. He started
with a lie about an apprenticeship in the aviation industry that he
could not possibly have had - and he's been compounding the lies ever
since. Man, are the lies stacked deep in Noddy World.
>
> "Anyone who genuinely considered handing over their coin for a new Alfa
> on the basis of it being a "reliable" choice is about as pig ignorant
> dumb as you can get while still having a pulse".
>
> "Alfa has ever made a "magnificent" car in the entire 100 odd years
> they've been in business, and certainly they have *never* made anything
> that could even *remotely* be considered reliable."
>
> Buffoon.
>
Darren takes *buffoon* to unprecedented heights.
>
> alvey
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/01/2022 10:25 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 8/01/2022 11:00 am, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 8/01/2022 7:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>
>>> it would be a poorly designed engine if the timing chain needs
>>> replacing that soon/often.
>>>
>> Or, more likely, poorly manufactured chains. BTW an item unlikely to
>> be made by the engine manufacturer.
>
> They outsource lots of stuff, and chains would be one of them.
>
> *All* manufacturers have their occasional issues and this is nothing
> new. In recent years the number of problems we've seen in modern cars is
> *immense*, and no one is immune to it. Toyota has had issues with stuck
> throttles and dodgy steering. Ford, and others, have had problems with
> their transmissions. CVT gearboxes have proven less than stellar while
> virtually everyone who has made a DSG style gearbox has had some degree
> of trouble. Holden had *many* problems with their V6 engines not the
> least of which was massive oil consumption and timing chain issues.
> Subaru are known for their head gasket dramas and Mazda's istop system
> is *plagued* with problems.

Maybe I've just been lucky, I've owned 3 Subarus from a 1976 4WD to a
2006 Forester without any major problems. My Mazda 3 has had no problems
with istop so far but then I try to avoid its use.

On 8/1/22 4:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 8/01/2022 10:25 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 8/01/2022 11:00 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 8/01/2022 7:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>
>>>> it would be a poorly designed engine if the timing chain needs
>>>> replacing that soon/often.
>>>>
>>> Or, more likely, poorly manufactured chains. BTW an item unlikely to
>>> be made by the engine manufacturer.
>>
>> They outsource lots of stuff, and chains would be one of them.
>>
>> *All* manufacturers have their occasional issues and this is nothing
>> new. In recent years the number of problems we've seen in modern cars
>> is *immense*, and no one is immune to it. Toyota has had issues with
>> stuck throttles and dodgy steering. Ford, and others, have had
>> problems with their transmissions. CVT gearboxes have proven less than
>> stellar while virtually everyone who has made a DSG style gearbox has
>> had some degree of trouble. Holden had *many* problems with their V6
>> engines not the least of which was massive oil consumption and timing
>> chain issues. Subaru are known for their head gasket dramas and
>> Mazda's istop system is *plagued* with problems.
>
> Maybe I've just been lucky, I've owned 3 Subarus from a 1976 4WD to a
> 2006 Forester without any major problems. My Mazda 3 has had no problems
> with istop so far but then I try to avoid its use.
>
>
From what I remember, it was only the 2.5 litre engine that had a head
gasket issue. As for the Mazda i-stop, they don't have a lot of issues.
In many cases it's because people don't understand the system. For
instance, if the battery capacity drops below 80%, i-stop will be
disabled, a typical winter issue when battery loads are greater. If
engine temp drops below a set value, the engine will restart. If the AC
cuts in, the engine will restart. And so much more. A lot of people
create issues when they try to cheap out on the battery replacement.
Battery type is critical and will cause issues if a sub par battery is
used. Mazda owners should read the owner's manual that comes with the
vehicle to gain insight.

Darren attempt at "What about them" would make the CCP proud. Wonder if
he has thought about CCP membership? He'd do well in their propaganda team.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 8/01/2022 4:38 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 8/1/22 4:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 8/01/2022 10:25 am, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 8/01/2022 11:00 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 8/01/2022 7:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>
>>>>> it would be a poorly designed engine if the timing chain needs
>>>>> replacing that soon/often.
>>>>>
>>>> Or, more likely, poorly manufactured chains. BTW an item unlikely to
>>>> be made by the engine manufacturer.
>>>
>>> They outsource lots of stuff, and chains would be one of them.
>>>
>>> *All* manufacturers have their occasional issues and this is nothing
>>> new. In recent years the number of problems we've seen in modern cars
>>> is *immense*, and no one is immune to it. Toyota has had issues with
>>> stuck throttles and dodgy steering. Ford, and others, have had
>>> problems with their transmissions. CVT gearboxes have proven less
>>> than stellar while virtually everyone who has made a DSG style
>>> gearbox has had some degree of trouble. Holden had *many* problems
>>> with their V6 engines not the least of which was massive oil
>>> consumption and timing chain issues. Subaru are known for their head
>>> gasket dramas and Mazda's istop system is *plagued* with problems.
>>
>> Maybe I've just been lucky, I've owned 3 Subarus from a 1976 4WD to a
>> 2006 Forester without any major problems. My Mazda 3 has had no
>> problems with istop so far but then I try to avoid its use.
>>
>>
> From what I remember, it was only the 2.5 litre engine that had a head
> gasket issue.

The original 1400cc 4WD had head gasket problems, it was a wet liner
motor, when they went to a dry liner in the 1600, the problem went away.

On 8/1/22 6:38 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 8/01/2022 4:38 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 8/1/22 4:58 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 8/01/2022 10:25 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 8/01/2022 11:00 am, keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 8/01/2022 7:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> it would be a poorly designed engine if the timing chain needs
>>>>>> replacing that soon/often.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Or, more likely, poorly manufactured chains. BTW an item unlikely
>>>>> to be made by the engine manufacturer.
>>>>
>>>> They outsource lots of stuff, and chains would be one of them.
>>>>
>>>> *All* manufacturers have their occasional issues and this is nothing
>>>> new. In recent years the number of problems we've seen in modern
>>>> cars is *immense*, and no one is immune to it. Toyota has had issues
>>>> with stuck throttles and dodgy steering. Ford, and others, have had
>>>> problems with their transmissions. CVT gearboxes have proven less
>>>> than stellar while virtually everyone who has made a DSG style
>>>> gearbox has had some degree of trouble. Holden had *many* problems
>>>> with their V6 engines not the least of which was massive oil
>>>> consumption and timing chain issues. Subaru are known for their head
>>>> gasket dramas and Mazda's istop system is *plagued* with problems.
>>>
>>> Maybe I've just been lucky, I've owned 3 Subarus from a 1976 4WD to a
>>> 2006 Forester without any major problems. My Mazda 3 has had no
>>> problems with istop so far but then I try to avoid its use.
>>>
>>>
>>  From what I remember, it was only the 2.5 litre engine that had a
>> head gasket issue.
>
> The original 1400cc 4WD had head gasket problems, it was a wet liner
> motor, when they went to a dry liner in the 1600, the problem went away.

We also have owned 3 Subbies and never had an engine problem of any sort.
2006 Impreza, 2010 Forester and 2015 WRX, only issue we had of any
significance with any of them was the Forester jumping out of gear due
to a worn selector that was replaced under warranty.

--
Daryl

On 7/01/2022 8:02 pm, keithr0 wrote:
> On 7/01/2022 12:01 am, Clocky wrote:
>> On 6/01/2022 3:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>>>
>>>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>>>
>>>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>>>
>>>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>>>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>>>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation
>>>> for building anything that is reliable.
>>>>
>>>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional
>>>> engine or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due,
>>>> this looks like a recipe for disaster.
>>>>
>>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a
>>> maintenance item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>>
>>
>> They were failing from as low as 40,000km to 100,000km when they were
>> supposed to last the life of the engine.
>>
>> It's interesting to note that the fraud reckoned Holden should have
>> recalled Commodores for having chains that needed replacing at around
>> 170,000km... yet he defends Nissan with an appalling track record.
>>
>> You don't have to believe me, just google YD25 and timing chain and
>> see for yourself.
>
> This one doesn't seem to talk about 40K failures, "We have heard of
> failures as low as 70,000 km" referring to the fuel pump drive chain
> rather than the camshaft one. They refer to early life failures with
> cheap third party chains.
>

They were failing from 40,000km to 100,000km from *new*, nothing to do
with "cheap replacement chains".

> https://yd25.com.au/index.php/services/diagnose-timing-chain-fault/manual-method
>

On 8/01/2022 5:22 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 6/01/2022 6:56 pm, keithr0 wrote:
>> On 5/01/2022 12:48 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 5/01/2022 4:49 am, Peter Jason wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 3 Jan 2022 08:29:02 +0800, Clocky <notgonna@happen.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0An3RbXcPg
>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6H66xfEZC4
>>>>>
>>>>> aka a recipe for disaster
>>>>>
>>>>> Nissan can't even get the basics right, what hope is there that these
>>>>> engines will be reliable?
>>>>
>>>> Clearly these are going the way of the ball point pen.  Far to
>>>> expensive to repair and cheaper to buy a new one.
>>>>
>>>> What a devilish complicated monster!
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's not that complicated and Nissan aren't the only ones using that
>>> design, but it's good for only about 1 mile per gallon according to
>>> some US based sites and Nissan have an appallingly poor reputation
>>> for building anything that is reliable.
>>>
>>> When you can't get a timing chain to last 40k in a conventional
>>> engine or suspension that doesn't sag before 1st service is due, this
>>> looks like a recipe for disaster.
>>>
>> The question is whether replacing the chain every 40K is a maintenance
>> item or whether chains are just failing at 40K from new.
>
>
> it would be a poorly designed engine if the timing chain needs replacing
> that soon/often.
>

Well it *is* a poorly designed engine.