Fran wrote on 10/7/22 2:32 pm:
> On 7/07/2022 9:45 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>> Fran wrote on 7/7/22 10:13 am:
>>> On 6/07/2022 5:24 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>> Fran wrote on 6/07/2022 3:45 pm:
>>>>> On 5/07/2022 9:01 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>> Fran wrote on 5/7/22 9:04 am:
>>>>>>> On 4/07/2022 10:26 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>>> Fran wrote on 4/7/22 11:17 am:
>>>>>>>>> On 3/07/2022 9:14 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Ördög wrote on 3/7/22 10:32 am:
>>>>>>>>>>> Petz, the certifiable village idiot has spoken /snip/
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ordog is just capable of lying bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yet, you have never been able to factually pin any
>>>>>>>>>>> lies on me,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hey!! Settle down, Ordog, Petzl isn't suggesting that
>>>>>>>>>> you lied .... just that, like everyone, you are CAPABLE
>>>>>>>>>> of lying!! ;-)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Given pretzel's poor level of English expression (and
>>>>>>>>> comprehension and everyhgint else requiring competence)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Don't you just hate it when you're correcting someone ....
>>>>>>>> and then you type "everyhgint"?? ;-P
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope.  I doesn't bother me at all.  I'm a  self taught typist
>>>>>>> and I often type things in a muddled fashion.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm a self taught typist, too ..... then had to re-learn typing
>>>>>> when I lost my right arm!! ;-P
>>>>>
>>>>> Yikes.  That would be tough (in more ways than just having to
>>>>> relearn).
>>>>
>>>> Back about 2000, I did some Data Entry (ABN applications, etc) for
>>>> the A.T.O. Sure, they had a pretty low speed requirement (20
>>>> W.P.M., I think), but I was able to achieve it .... just!!
>>>>
>>>> "Phantom Pains" ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_pain ...
>>>> can be interesting!! Imagine a bead of sweat rolling down your
>>>> forearm when you KNOW that you don't have that forearm!!
>>>
>>> Yeah, I can imagine.  I'd heard abut them eg having an itchy foot but
>>>  having had the leg amputated so no foot there to itch.  The body is
>>> an amazing piece of equipment.  I've had multiple cancers so missing
>>> a number of internal bits and its amazing how the body manages to
>>> deal with the missing items.  A friend was telling me yesterday about
>>> weird things her body did after she'd have brain surgery as her body
>>> tried to establish new neural pathways to deal with the damage done
>>> in her brain.
>>
>> ... and, just to throw another spanner into my works, I've had a minor
>> Stroke as well. What a fun way to find out I'm a Diabetic!! ... NOT!!
>
> Commiserations :-(((.  Getting older is not the least bit fun.
>
My stroke was in 1996 .... less then four years after I got out of The
Army!!
--
Daniel

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 00:08:02 +1000, Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org>
wrote:

> Fran wrote on 10/7/22 2:16 pm:
>> On 7/07/2022 9:18 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>> br wrote on 7/7/22 4:38 pm:
>>>> On 6/6/22 20:53, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If the option is a. STAY A MONARCHY, or, b. SWITCH TO A
>>>>> REPUBLIC WHERE THE *PARLIAMENT* SELECTS THE PRESIDENT
>>>>> I doubt that'll get up but ...
>>>>> If the option is a. STAY A MONARCHY, or, b. SWITCH TO A
>>>>> REPUBLIC WHERE THE *PEOPLE* VOTE FOR THE PRESIDENT
>>>>> that might get up! .... MIGHT!!
>>>> We already have a President, the President of the Senate.
>>>> Why not continue to call the Head of State the Governor-General?
>>>> The term by itself does not necessarily signify a monarchical or
>>>> republican form of government.
>>> Not a problem .... call them 'The Head-Huncho' for all it matters
>>> to me!
>>>
>>>> And yes, the head of state should be selected by the parliament,
>>>> not the public. Otherwise it will be a radical change to the form
>>>> of government, which nobody even attempts to argue for.
>>> I think The People should have their pick .... otherwise you are,
>>> effectively, just getting the Politicians elect a Politician to
>>> rule over and above the Prime Minister.
>> Not my preferred option. Presidential systems of govt (ie where a
>> president is elected by the people) include the dodgyest of nations
>>> I'm suggesting 'The Head-Huncho' should just be a figurehead, much
>>> like The King/Queen is nowadays!!
>> Why not just make the Head of state an appointment (for a fixed term
>> and with a majority of votes in each parties in parliament [or
>> somesuch)
>
> If a Politician 'elects' someone, they will elect a Politician!!
>
> (Hmm!! Just occurred to me .... the word 'elect' is contained with-in
> the word 'select'!!)
>
>> but don't send the appointment recommendation off shore for a tick
>> from another nations head of state.
>
> I thought that was to be "Taken as Read"! Boss *Australian* to be
> appointed by Australians with no input form O.S. at all!
>
> And they *MUST* be *Australian* .... whither by Birth or by Choice ...
> I'm a favouring 'by Birth' a bit!! (Remember how Rupert Murdoch took out
> U.S. of A. citizenship just so that he could buy some U.S. of A. news
> organisation!! To own a U.S. of A. business, apparently, you need to be
> a U.S. of A. Citizen!!)

No you don't. Sony never was a USA citizen.

zaq, the trolling anger management disaster "wet paper bag"

> Fran

/snip/

>> Hey Ordog!  I mentioned elsewhere that 'the people' were clueless and
>> shouldn't get to vote for a head of State, this poster (who is
>> probably poor old Roddles or our village idot) just proved my point
>
> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag, you stupid cow.

Yeah!
Fran, you are right, this is Rod trolling again. (See X-Trace entry in
the header.)

He is just too dumb, and obviously raging mad to give away himself so
easily by throwing in that pathetic abuse line.

--
The ever present and ever vigilant newsgroup devil at your service.

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 00:08:02 +1000, Daniel65
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

>Fran wrote on 10/7/22 2:16 pm:
>> On 7/07/2022 9:18 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>> br wrote on 7/7/22 4:38 pm:
>>>> On 6/6/22 20:53, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the option is a. STAY A MONARCHY, or, b. SWITCH TO A
>>>>> REPUBLIC WHERE THE *PARLIAMENT* SELECTS THE PRESIDENT
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt that'll get up but ...
>>>>>
>>>>> If the option is a. STAY A MONARCHY, or, b. SWITCH TO A
>>>>> REPUBLIC WHERE THE *PEOPLE* VOTE FOR THE PRESIDENT
>>>>>
>>>>> that might get up! .... MIGHT!!
>>>>
>>>> We already have a President, the President of the Senate.
>>>>
>>>> Why not continue to call the Head of State the Governor-General?
>>>>
>>>> The term by itself does not necessarily signify a monarchical or
>>>> republican form of government.
>>>
>>> Not a problem .... call them 'The Head-Huncho' for all it matters
>>> to me!
>>>
>>>> And yes, the head of state should be selected by the parliament,
>>>> not the public. Otherwise it will be a radical change to the form
>>>> of government, which nobody even attempts to argue for.
>>>
>>> I think The People should have their pick .... otherwise you are,
>>> effectively, just getting the Politicians elect a Politician to
>>> rule over and above the Prime Minister.
>>
>> Not my preferred option. Presidential systems of govt (ie where a
>> president is elected by the people) include the dodgyest of nations
>>>
>>> I'm suggesting 'The Head-Huncho' should just be a figurehead, much
>>> like The King/Queen is nowadays!!
>>
>> Why not just make the Head of state an appointment (for a fixed term
>> and with a majority of votes in each parties in parliament [or
>> somesuch)
>
>If a Politician 'elects' someone, they will elect a Politician!!
>
>(Hmm!! Just occurred to me .... the word 'elect' is contained with-in
>the word 'select'!!)
>
>> but don't send the appointment recommendation off shore for a tick
>> from another nations head of state.
>
>I thought that was to be "Taken as Read"! Boss *Australian* to be
>appointed by Australians with no input form O.S. at all!
>
>And they *MUST* be *Australian* .... whither by Birth or by Choice ...
>I'm a favouring 'by Birth' a bit!! (Remember how Rupert Murdoch took out
>U.S. of A. citizenship just so that he could buy some U.S. of A. news
>organisation!! To own a U.S. of A. business, apparently, you need to be
>a U.S. of A. Citizen!!)
>
Murdoch did a good job of it with "Fox news" being head of the field
Heres a more full account of what went on.
<https://www.theguardian.com/media/2003/aug/24/rupertmurdoch.business>
https://tinyurl.com/2q4r5j3a
Cross-ownership rules prevented newspapers from running television in
their own location. Newscorp then had not just the New York Post, but
also the Boston Herald and the Chicago Sun-Times, all in Metromedia
territory.

Murdoch said he would get a temporary waiver from the Federal
Communications Commission (FCC) and find a permanent solution later.
More serious was the basic design of American television. To inhibit
concentrations of power, it had a subdivided structure, with hundreds
of locally owned stations.
--
Petzl
Murdoch killed Rudd Gillard
Murdoch selected Abbott
Turnbull knifed Abbott
Murdoch sacked Turnbull
Murdoch selected Morrison
https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/nasty-saga-you-nearly-missed-20091025-hem5.html
https://is.gd/UasnLL

Fran
> Ördög
>
> The Head of State should only have ceremonial functions
>> and should be selected from strictly non-political nominees and then
>> voted  into office by the people.
>
> It's far too important a job to let 'the people' vote in a Head of
> State.  Too many of 'them people' are far too clueless about even really
> basic facts about our political system (we see that here all the time)
> Voting by 'the people' can too easily lead to results like Trump.

I understand that you think of the worst possible outcomes as a result
of directly elected heads of states.

However, I strongly disagree with the supposition that direct election
of the head of state necessarily has to end badly. There are many other
countries, where this does not occour.

Changing the fundamentals of the state from constitutional monarchy to a
republic requires a referendum in any case. So if the constitution is
changed in such a manner there is no reason why the nature of office of
the head of state can not be also codified to eliminate all negative
possibilities.

So actually what is required from a "non-political" head of state?

1 Understanding of the constitution and at least the basic of laws which
are used to govern this country.

2 Understanding of international diplomatic protocols

3 Understanding of domestic and international political etiquette

4 Ability to give non-political public speeches

5 A clean record of personal history (i.e. nothing corrupt or criminal)

6 Some significant past professional achievements (non-political,
naturally) giving him/her the necessary public recognition.
Alas, the person nominated could be for instance someone with an
outstanding scientific or legal background.

So that's it! Nothing else is required.

To make it short: I will never trust a head of state elected by
politicians even if all reserve powers were removed from that office.
And that is why I will vote against any proposed model that installs a
political hack into that office.

--
The ever present and ever vigilant newsgroup devil at your service.

On Sunday, 10 July 2022 at 18:34:28 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
his usual crap
- flush -

On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 09:59:46 UTC+10, Arindam Banerjee wrote:
> On Sunday, 10 July 2022 at 18:34:28 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
> his usual crap
oops, robots have no gender, so above line corrected to:
its usual crap
> - flush -

On 11/07/2022 9:16 am, Ördög wrote:
> Fran
>> Ördög
>>
>> The Head of State should only have ceremonial functions
>>> and should be selected from strictly non-political nominees and then
>>> voted  into office by the people.
>>
>> It's far too important a job to let 'the people' vote in a Head of
>> State.  Too many of 'them people' are far too clueless about even
>> really basic facts about our political system (we see that here all
>> the time) Voting by 'the people' can too easily lead to results like
>> Trump.
>
> I understand that you think of the worst possible outcomes as a result
> of directly elected heads of states.
>
> However, I strongly disagree with the supposition that direct election
> of the head of state necessarily has to end badly. There are many other
> countries, where this does not occour.
:-)) Care to name one or two that have a presidential system that gets
decent heads of state?

> Changing the fundamentals of the state from constitutional monarchy to a
> republic requires a referendum in any case. So if the constitution is
> changed in such a manner there is no reason why the nature of office of
> the head of state can not be also codified to eliminate all negative
> possibilities.

Ive got my doubts that this can be done given that direct voting implies
a presidential system. Maybe it's possible but if it is, I suspect that
explaining it to the voters who'd need to ratify a change to the
Constitution would be very hard. That was part of the problem with the
last attempt to change the Constitution - nay sayers can super easily
convince voters to vote no as it's all a bit scary if we (the voters)
stuff up and say yes but it all goes belly up.
>
> So actually what is required from a "non-political" head of state?
>
> 1 Understanding of the constitution and at least the basic of laws which
>   are used to govern this country.
>
> 2 Understanding of international diplomatic protocols
>
> 3 Understanding of domestic and international political etiquette
>
> 4 Ability to give non-political public speeches
>
> 5 A clean record of personal history (i.e. nothing corrupt or criminal)
>
> 6 Some significant past professional achievements (non-political,
>   naturally) giving him/her the necessary public recognition.
>   Alas, the person nominated could be for instance someone with an
>   outstanding scientific or legal background.
>
> So that's it! Nothing else is required.
>
> To make it short: I will never trust a head of state elected by
> politicians even if all reserve powers were removed from that office.
> And that is why I will vote against any proposed model that installs a
> political hack into that office.

There ya go being a nay sayer and while I certainly understand why you
are nay saying, but I have no issues with the PM being the head of state
as it is in other parliamentrary republics. It can't be any worse than
the buffoons we've already had (eg Morrison and Abbott).

On 11/07/2022 12:08 am, Daniel65 wrote:
> Fran wrote on 10/7/22 2:16 pm:
>> On 7/07/2022 9:18 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>> br wrote on 7/7/22 4:38 pm:
>>>> On 6/6/22 20:53, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> If the option is a.    STAY A MONARCHY, or, b.    SWITCH TO A
>>>>> REPUBLIC WHERE THE *PARLIAMENT* SELECTS THE PRESIDENT
>>>>>
>>>>> I doubt that'll get up but ...
>>>>>
>>>>> If the option is a.    STAY A MONARCHY, or, b.    SWITCH TO A
>>>>> REPUBLIC WHERE THE *PEOPLE* VOTE FOR THE PRESIDENT
>>>>>
>>>>> that might get up! .... MIGHT!!
>>>>
>>>> We already have a President, the President of the Senate.
>>>>
>>>> Why not continue to call the Head of State the Governor-General?
>>>>
>>>> The term by itself does not necessarily signify a monarchical or
>>>>  republican form of government.
>>>
>>> Not a problem .... call them 'The Head-Huncho' for all it matters
>>> to me!
>>>
>>>> And yes, the head of state should be selected by the parliament,
>>>> not the public. Otherwise it will be a radical change to the form
>>>> of government, which nobody even attempts to argue for.
>>>
>>> I think The People should have their pick .... otherwise you are,
>>> effectively, just getting the Politicians elect a Politician to
>>> rule over and above the Prime Minister.
>>
>> Not my preferred option.  Presidential systems of govt (ie where a
>> president is elected by the people) include the dodgyest of nations
>>>
>>> I'm suggesting 'The Head-Huncho' should just be a figurehead, much
>>>  like The King/Queen is nowadays!!
>>
>> Why not just make the Head of state an appointment (for a fixed term
>> and with a majority of votes in each parties in parliament [or
>> somesuch)
>
> If a Politician 'elects' someone, they will elect a Politician!!

So? (Bear in mind that Trump (a businessman) was a complete disaster).
I can't see why the PM couldn't be a head of state (4 year fixed term)
and would be any worse than GG head of state (appointed by politicians
and signed off by the Queen).
>
> (Hmm!! Just occurred to me .... the word 'elect' is contained with-in
> the word 'select'!!)
>
>> but don't send the appointment recommendation off shore for a tick
>> from another nations head of state.
>
> I thought that was to be "Taken as Read"! Boss *Australian* to be
> appointed by Australians with no input form O.S. at all!

Yep
>
> And they *MUST* be *Australian* .... whither by Birth or by Choice ...
> I'm a favouring 'by Birth' a bit!! (Remember how Rupert Murdoch took out
> U.S. of A. citizenship just so that he could buy some U.S. of A. news
> organisation!! To own a U.S. of A. business, apparently, you need to be
> a U.S. of A. Citizen!!)

Yep. Either would do TMWOT.

On 11/07/2022 12:10 am, Daniel65 wrote:
> Fran wrote on 10/7/22 2:32 pm:
>> On 7/07/2022 9:45 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>> Fran wrote on 7/7/22 10:13 am:
>>>> On 6/07/2022 5:24 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>> Fran wrote on 6/07/2022 3:45 pm:
>>>>>> On 5/07/2022 9:01 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>> Fran wrote on 5/7/22 9:04 am:
>>>>>>>> On 4/07/2022 10:26 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Fran wrote on 4/7/22 11:17 am:
>>>>>>>>>> On 3/07/2022 9:14 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Ördög wrote on 3/7/22 10:32 am:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Petz, the certifiable village idiot has spoken /snip/
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ordog is just capable of lying bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet, you have never been able to factually pin any
>>>>>>>>>>>> lies on me,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Hey!! Settle down, Ordog, Petzl isn't suggesting that
>>>>>>>>>>> you lied .... just that, like everyone, you are CAPABLE
>>>>>>>>>>> of lying!! ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Given pretzel's poor level of English expression (and
>>>>>>>>>> comprehension and everyhgint else requiring competence)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Don't you just hate it when you're correcting someone ....
>>>>>>>>> and then you type "everyhgint"?? ;-P
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope.  I doesn't bother me at all.  I'm a  self taught typist
>>>>>>>> and I often type things in a muddled fashion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm a self taught typist, too ..... then had to re-learn typing
>>>>>>> when I lost my right arm!! ;-P
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yikes.  That would be tough (in more ways than just having to
>>>>>> relearn).
>>>>>
>>>>> Back about 2000, I did some Data Entry (ABN applications, etc) for
>>>>> the A.T.O. Sure, they had a pretty low speed requirement (20
>>>>> W.P.M., I think), but I was able to achieve it .... just!!
>>>>>
>>>>> "Phantom Pains" ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_pain ...
>>>>> can be interesting!! Imagine a bead of sweat rolling down your
>>>>> forearm when you KNOW that you don't have that forearm!!
>>>>
>>>> Yeah, I can imagine.  I'd heard abut them eg having an itchy foot but
>>>>  having had the leg amputated so no foot there to itch.  The body is
>>>> an amazing piece of equipment.  I've had multiple cancers so missing
>>>> a number of internal bits and its amazing how the body manages to
>>>> deal with the missing items.  A friend was telling me yesterday about
>>>> weird things her body did after she'd have brain surgery as her body
>>>> tried to establish new neural pathways to deal with the damage done
>>>> in her brain.
>>>
>>> ... and, just to throw another spanner into my works, I've had a minor
>>> Stroke as well. What a fun way to find out I'm a Diabetic!! ... NOT!!
>>
>> Commiserations :-(((.  Getting older is not the least bit fun.
>>
> My stroke was in 1996 .... less then four years after I got out of The
> Army!!

Hell that is so unfair! Almost like those poor people who work fr
decades, retire and hope to live a long time after retirement but ending
up dead only 2 years after having retired.

It sounds like you've made a pretty good recovery though over the years
since then.......

Fran
> Ördög
>> Fran
>>> Ördög
>>>
>>> The Head of State should only have ceremonial functions
>>>> and should be selected from strictly non-political nominees and then
>>>> voted  into office by the people.
>>>
>>> It's far too important a job to let 'the people' vote in a Head of
>>> State.  Too many of 'them people' are far too clueless about even
>>> really basic facts about our political system (we see that here all
>>> the time) Voting by 'the people' can too easily lead to results like
>>> Trump.
>>
>> I understand that you think of the worst possible outcomes as a result
>> of directly elected heads of states.
>>
>> However, I strongly disagree with the supposition that direct election
>> of the head of state necessarily has to end badly. There are many
>> other countries, where this does not occour.
> :-))  Care to name one or two that have a presidential system that gets
> decent heads of state?

I do:

Finland
https://www.presidentti.fi/en/

Italy
https://quirinale.it/

Austria
https://www.bundespraesident.at/en/index

Germany, kind of, although the head of state has a relatively higher
political role. In that country (which hopefully learned the lessons of
the past by not allowing any President to turn into a new Führer) the
presidency does not impede the proper democratic running of the politics.

>
>> Changing the fundamentals of the state from constitutional monarchy to
>> a republic requires a referendum in any case. So if the constitution
>> is changed in such a manner there is no reason why the nature of
>> office of the head of state can not be also codified to eliminate all
>> negative possibilities.
>
> Ive got my doubts that this can be done given that direct voting implies
> a presidential system.  Maybe it's possible but if it is, I suspect that
> explaining it to the voters who'd need to ratify a change to the
> Constitution would be very hard.  That was part of the problem with the
> last attempt to change the Constitution - nay sayers can super easily
> convince voters to vote no as it's all a bit scary if we (the voters)
> stuff up and say yes but it all goes belly up.
>>
>> So actually what is required from a "non-political" head of state?
>>
>> 1 Understanding of the constitution and at least the basic of laws which
>>    are used to govern this country.
>>
>> 2 Understanding of international diplomatic protocols
>>
>> 3 Understanding of domestic and international political etiquette
>>
>> 4 Ability to give non-political public speeches
>>
>> 5 A clean record of personal history (i.e. nothing corrupt or criminal)
>>
>> 6 Some significant past professional achievements (non-political,
>>    naturally) giving him/her the necessary public recognition.
>>    Alas, the person nominated could be for instance someone with an
>>    outstanding scientific or legal background.
>>
>> So that's it! Nothing else is required.
>>
>> To make it short: I will never trust a head of state elected by
>> politicians even if all reserve powers were removed from that office.
>> And that is why I will vote against any proposed model that installs a
>> political hack into that office.
>
>
> There ya go being a nay sayer and while I certainly understand why you
> are nay saying, but I have no issues with the PM being the head of state
> as it is in other parliamentrary republics.  It can't be any worse than
> the buffoons we've already had (eg Morrison and Abbott).
>
I hope that the republican movement in Australia has understood that the
issue of the republic has to be voted on first followed up by a
referendum on how to nominate/elect the head of state.
Obviously, I whole heartedly support a Republic, but I shall never
support a political hack who is elected along political lines by
politicians.

If the Presidency must be political appointment regardless of all other
options, then I'd say, the better and simpler solution would be to
regard the PM as the head of state for the term of each government, just
like it is done in Belgium for instance. I suppose you are also thinking
along these line.

--
The ever present and ever vigilant newsgroup devil at your service.

Some fuckwit curry muncher claiming to be
Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com>
spewed even more stinking curry muncher shit.

Some fuckwit curry muncher claiming to be
Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com>
spewed even more stinking curry muncher shit.

On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 14:14:12 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
monkey-shit

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 11:35:36 +1000, Fran
<gettingmoredelusionalbythedayistheforger@nutcasewannabefran.com> wrote:

> On 11/07/2022 9:16 am, Ördög wrote:
>> Fran
>>> Ördög
>>>
>>> The Head of State should only have ceremonial functions
>>>> and should be selected from strictly non-political nominees and then
>>>> voted into office by the people.
>>>
>>> It's far too important a job to let 'the people' vote in a Head of
>>> State. Too many of 'them people' are far too clueless about even
>>> really basic facts about our political system (we see that here all
>>> the time) Voting by 'the people' can too easily lead to results like
>>> Trump.
>> I understand that you think of the worst possible outcomes as a result
>> of directly elected heads of states.
>> However, I strongly disagree with the supposition that direct election
>> of the head of state necessarily has to end badly. There are many other
>> countries, where this does not occour.
> :-)) Care to name one or two that have a presidential system that gets
> decent heads of state?
>
>> Changing the fundamentals of the state from constitutional monarchy to
>> a republic requires a referendum in any case. So if the constitution is
>> changed in such a manner there is no reason why the nature of office of
>> the head of state can not be also codified to eliminate all negative
>> possibilities.
>
> Ive got my doubts that this can be done given that direct voting implies
> a presidential system. Maybe it's possible but if it is, I suspect that
> explaining it to the voters who'd need to ratify a change to the
> Constitution would be very hard. That was part of the problem with the
> last attempt to change the Constitution - nay sayers can super easily
> convince voters to vote no as it's all a bit scary if we (the voters)
> stuff up and say yes but it all goes belly up.
>> So actually what is required from a "non-political" head of state?
>> 1 Understanding of the constitution and at least the basic of laws
>> which
>> are used to govern this country.
>> 2 Understanding of international diplomatic protocols
>> 3 Understanding of domestic and international political etiquette
>> 4 Ability to give non-political public speeches
>> 5 A clean record of personal history (i.e. nothing corrupt or criminal)
>> 6 Some significant past professional achievements (non-political,
>> naturally) giving him/her the necessary public recognition.
>> Alas, the person nominated could be for instance someone with an
>> outstanding scientific or legal background.
>> So that's it! Nothing else is required.
>> To make it short: I will never trust a head of state elected by
>> politicians even if all reserve powers were removed from that office.
>> And that is why I will vote against any proposed model that installs a
>> political hack into that office.
>
>
> There ya go being a nay sayer and while I certainly understand why you
> are nay saying, but I have no issues with the PM being the head of state
> as it is in other parliamentrary republics.

Have fun listing those.

> It can't be any worse than the buffoons we've already had (eg Morrison
> and Abbott).

Some fuckwit curry muncher claiming to be
Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com>
spewed even more stinking curry muncher shit.

On 11/07/2022 12:50 pm, Ördög wrote:
> Fran
>> Ördög
>>> Fran
>>>> Ördög
>>>>
>>>> The Head of State should only have ceremonial functions
>>>>> and should be selected from strictly non-political nominees and
>>>>> then voted  into office by the people.
>>>>
>>>> It's far too important a job to let 'the people' vote in a Head of
>>>> State.  Too many of 'them people' are far too clueless about even
>>>> really basic facts about our political system (we see that here all
>>>> the time) Voting by 'the people' can too easily lead to results like
>>>> Trump.
>>>
>>> I understand that you think of the worst possible outcomes as a
>>> result of directly elected heads of states.
>>>
>>> However, I strongly disagree with the supposition that direct
>>> election of the head of state necessarily has to end badly. There are
>>> many other countries, where this does not occour.
>> :-))  Care to name one or two that have a presidential system that
>> gets decent heads of state?
>
> I do:

Except you've not nominated one president under a presidential system of
govt.
>
> Finland
> https://www.presidentti.fi/en/

Except Finland doesn't have a presidential system - it's a parliamentary
republic. But since you mention it, their system may suit us - except
for the President being responsible for FA.

> Italy
> https://quirinale.it/

Not a direct election - the president is elected by a college and again
it's a parliamentary republic like Finland.
>
> Austria
> https://www.bundespraesident.at/en/index

Again a parliamentary republic rather than a presidential system but
the Presidnet is directly elected.
>
> Germany, kind of, although the head of state has a relatively higher
> political role. In that country (which hopefully learned the lessons of
> the past by not allowing any President to turn into a new Führer) the
> presidency does not impede the proper democratic running of the politics.

>
>>
>>> Changing the fundamentals of the state from constitutional monarchy
>>> to a republic requires a referendum in any case. So if the
>>> constitution is changed in such a manner there is no reason why the
>>> nature of office of the head of state can not be also codified to
>>> eliminate all negative possibilities.
>>
>> Ive got my doubts that this can be done given that direct voting
>> implies a presidential system.  Maybe it's possible but if it is, I
>> suspect that explaining it to the voters who'd need to ratify a change
>> to the Constitution would be very hard.  That was part of the problem
>> with the last attempt to change the Constitution - nay sayers can
>> super easily convince voters to vote no as it's all a bit scary if we
>> (the voters) stuff up and say yes but it all goes belly up.
>>>
>>> So actually what is required from a "non-political" head of state?
>>>
>>> 1 Understanding of the constitution and at least the basic of laws which
>>>    are used to govern this country.
>>>
>>> 2 Understanding of international diplomatic protocols
>>>
>>> 3 Understanding of domestic and international political etiquette
>>>
>>> 4 Ability to give non-political public speeches
>>>
>>> 5 A clean record of personal history (i.e. nothing corrupt or criminal)
>>>
>>> 6 Some significant past professional achievements (non-political,
>>>    naturally) giving him/her the necessary public recognition.
>>>    Alas, the person nominated could be for instance someone with an
>>>    outstanding scientific or legal background.
>>>
>>> So that's it! Nothing else is required.
>>>
>>> To make it short: I will never trust a head of state elected by
>>> politicians even if all reserve powers were removed from that office.
>>> And that is why I will vote against any proposed model that installs
>>> a political hack into that office.
>>
>>
>> There ya go being a nay sayer and while I certainly understand why you
>> are nay saying, but I have no issues with the PM being the head of
>> state as it is in other parliamentrary republics.  It can't be any
>> worse than the buffoons we've already had (eg Morrison and Abbott).
>>
> I hope that the republican movement in Australia has understood that the
> issue of the republic has to be voted on first followed up by a
> referendum on how to nominate/elect the head of state.

I suspect we'd end up with a parliamentary republic and not a
presidential system of govt.

> Obviously, I whole heartedly support a Republic, but I shall never
> support a political hack who is elected along political lines by
> politicians.

I would. They know the job. So long as the head of state/presidnet is
a fairly toothless rubber stamp job to sign legislation into law 'd see
no issues with a polly having a the job.
>
> If the Presidency must be political appointment regardless of all other
> options, then I'd say, the better and simpler solution would be to
> regard the PM as the head of state for the term of each government, just
> like it is done in Belgium for instance. I suppose you are also thinking
> along these line.

I think there needs to be someone else ie to do the pomp and
circumstance crap (scrubs up well,looks fine in a dinner suit/formal
frock, knows which cutlery to use and can make small talk) and does the
formal signing of legislation into law stuff. For eg Julie Bishop could
do that job quite well IMO. Scott Morrison or Tony Abbott couldn't.

On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 15:50:02 UTC+10, Rod Speed wrote:
More copycat monkey shit
>

Some fuckwit curry muncher claiming to be
Arindam Banerjee <banerjeeadda1234@gmail.com>
spewed even more stinking curry muncher shit.

Fran wrote on 11/7/22 11:40 am:

<Snip>

> Yep.  Either would do TMWOT.
>
Hmm!! Not knowing what 'TMWOT' stood for, I put it into DuckDuckGo ...
and three of the offerings were ....

3. To My Way of Thinking, and,

4. To Many Women of Troy, and,

5. The Mystic World of The Templers.

.... and, as it was Fran that used the abbreviation, I'm thinking 4!! ;-P

If it had been Petzl using that abbreviation, I would have gone for 5
..... even with the extra 'T'!!
--
Daniel

Fran wrote on 11/7/22 11:45 am:
> On 11/07/2022 12:10 am, Daniel65 wrote:
>> Fran wrote on 10/7/22 2:32 pm:
>>> On 7/07/2022 9:45 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>> Fran wrote on 7/7/22 10:13 am:
>>>>> On 6/07/2022 5:24 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>> Fran wrote on 6/07/2022 3:45 pm:
>>>>>>> On 5/07/2022 9:01 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>>> Fran wrote on 5/7/22 9:04 am:
>>>>>>>>> On 4/07/2022 10:26 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Fran wrote on 4/7/22 11:17 am:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/07/2022 9:14 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ördög wrote on 3/7/22 10:32 am:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petz, the certifiable village idiot has spoken /snip/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ordog is just capable of lying bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet, you have never been able to factually pin any
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lies on me,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey!! Settle down, Ordog, Petzl isn't suggesting that
>>>>>>>>>>>> you lied .... just that, like everyone, you are CAPABLE
>>>>>>>>>>>> of lying!! ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Given pretzel's poor level of English expression (and
>>>>>>>>>>> comprehension and everyhgint else requiring competence)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Don't you just hate it when you're correcting someone ....
>>>>>>>>>> and then you type "everyhgint"?? ;-P
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope.  I doesn't bother me at all.  I'm a  self taught typist
>>>>>>>>> and I often type things in a muddled fashion.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I'm a self taught typist, too ..... then had to re-learn typing
>>>>>>>> when I lost my right arm!! ;-P
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yikes.  That would be tough (in more ways than just having to
>>>>>>> relearn).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Back about 2000, I did some Data Entry (ABN applications, etc) for
>>>>>> the A.T.O. Sure, they had a pretty low speed requirement (20
>>>>>> W.P.M., I think), but I was able to achieve it .... just!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Phantom Pains" ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_pain ...
>>>>>> can be interesting!! Imagine a bead of sweat rolling down your
>>>>>> forearm when you KNOW that you don't have that forearm!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I can imagine.  I'd heard abut them eg having an itchy foot but
>>>>>  having had the leg amputated so no foot there to itch.  The body is
>>>>> an amazing piece of equipment.  I've had multiple cancers so missing
>>>>> a number of internal bits and its amazing how the body manages to
>>>>> deal with the missing items.  A friend was telling me yesterday about
>>>>> weird things her body did after she'd have brain surgery as her body
>>>>> tried to establish new neural pathways to deal with the damage done
>>>>> in her brain.
>>>>
>>>> ... and, just to throw another spanner into my works, I've had a minor
>>>> Stroke as well. What a fun way to find out I'm a Diabetic!! ... NOT!!
>>>
>>> Commiserations :-(((.  Getting older is not the least bit fun.
>>>
>> My stroke was in 1996 .... less then four years after I got out of The
>> Army!!
>
> Hell that is so unfair!  Almost like those poor people who work fr
> decades, retire and hope to live a long time after retirement but ending
> up dead only 2 years after having retired.

Yes, that 'dying soon after retirement' used to largely be a MENS thing
.... back when it was mainly men who went 'out to work' ... whilst women
worked at home.

I wonder if that situation still applies ... but applicable to BOTH
sexes now that Woman more commonly also go 'out to work'.

> It sounds like you've made a pretty good recovery though over the years
> since then.......

I did type 'mild', didn't I?? Maybe I should have typed 'very mild'

As my Right Arm had previously been amputated, about the only impact
I've noticed is, ... well, ... if you could imagine your chest/stomach
had been very tightly bandaged down the right side only!! Oh, and my
recent memory is shit!!
--
Daniel

On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 00:10:38 +1000, Daniel65 <daniel47@nomail.afraid.org>
wrote:

> Fran wrote on 11/7/22 11:45 am:
>> On 11/07/2022 12:10 am, Daniel65 wrote:
>>> Fran wrote on 10/7/22 2:32 pm:
>>>> On 7/07/2022 9:45 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>> Fran wrote on 7/7/22 10:13 am:
>>>>>> On 6/07/2022 5:24 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>> Fran wrote on 6/07/2022 3:45 pm:
>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2022 9:01 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Fran wrote on 5/7/22 9:04 am:
>>>>>>>>>> On 4/07/2022 10:26 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Fran wrote on 4/7/22 11:17 am:
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/07/2022 9:14 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ördög wrote on 3/7/22 10:32 am:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Petz, the certifiable village idiot has spoken /snip/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ordog is just capable of lying bullshit.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yet, you have never been able to factually pin any
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> lies on me,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hey!! Settle down, Ordog, Petzl isn't suggesting that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> you lied .... just that, like everyone, you are CAPABLE
>>>>>>>>>>>>> of lying!! ;-)
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Given pretzel's poor level of English expression (and
>>>>>>>>>>>> comprehension and everyhgint else requiring competence)
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Don't you just hate it when you're correcting someone ....
>>>>>>>>>>> and then you type "everyhgint"?? ;-P
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope. I doesn't bother me at all. I'm a self taught typist
>>>>>>>>>> and I often type things in a muddled fashion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I'm a self taught typist, too ..... then had to re-learn typing
>>>>>>>>> when I lost my right arm!! ;-P
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yikes. That would be tough (in more ways than just having to
>>>>>>>> relearn).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Back about 2000, I did some Data Entry (ABN applications, etc) for
>>>>>>> the A.T.O. Sure, they had a pretty low speed requirement (20
>>>>>>> W.P.M., I think), but I was able to achieve it .... just!!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Phantom Pains" ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_pain ....
>>>>>>> can be interesting!! Imagine a bead of sweat rolling down your
>>>>>>> forearm when you KNOW that you don't have that forearm!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yeah, I can imagine. I'd heard abut them eg having an itchy foot
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> having had the leg amputated so no foot there to itch. The body is
>>>>>> an amazing piece of equipment. I've had multiple cancers so missing
>>>>>> a number of internal bits and its amazing how the body manages to
>>>>>> deal with the missing items. A friend was telling me yesterday
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> weird things her body did after she'd have brain surgery as her body
>>>>>> tried to establish new neural pathways to deal with the damage done
>>>>>> in her brain.
>>>>>
>>>>> ... and, just to throw another spanner into my works, I've had a
>>>>> minor
>>>>> Stroke as well. What a fun way to find out I'm a Diabetic!! ... NOT!!
>>>>
>>>> Commiserations :-(((. Getting older is not the least bit fun.
>>>>
>>> My stroke was in 1996 .... less then four years after I got out of The
>>> Army!!
>> Hell that is so unfair! Almost like those poor people who work fr
>> decades, retire and hope to live a long time after retirement but
>> ending up dead only 2 years after having retired.
>
> Yes, that 'dying soon after retirement' used to largely be a MENS thing
> ... back when it was mainly men who went 'out to work' ...

> whilst women worked at home.

Most of them didn't at that age.

> I wonder if that situation still applies ...

Nope, I can't think of any that it has applied to except one
who retired due to ill health and didnt last long after that.

> but applicable to BOTH sexes now that Woman more commonly also go 'out
> to work'.

I can't think of any who have died soon after retiring.

>> It sounds like you've made a pretty good recovery though over the years
>> since then.......
>
> I did type 'mild', didn't I?? Maybe I should have typed 'very mild'
>
> As my Right Arm had previously been amputated, about the only impact
> I've noticed is, ... well, ... if you could imagine your chest/stomach
> had been very tightly bandaged down the right side only!!

> Oh, and my recent memory is shit!!

That's just he Altzheimers, nothing to worry about.

On 11/07/2022 11:58 pm, Daniel65 wrote:
> Fran wrote on 11/7/22 11:40 am:
>
> <Snip>
>
>> Yep.  Either would do TMWOT.
>>
> Hmm!! Not knowing what 'TMWOT' stood for, I put it into DuckDuckGo ...
> and three of the offerings were ....

It's 1. Very commonly used amongst long time usenet posters.
>
> 3.    To My Way of Thinking, and,
>
> 4.    To Many Women of Troy, and,
>
> 5.    The Mystic World of The Templers.
>
> ... and, as it was Fran that used the abbreviation, I'm thinking 4!! ;-P
>
> If it had been Petzl using that abbreviation, I would have gone for 5
> .... even with the extra 'T'!!

On 12/07/2022 12:10 am, Daniel65 wrote:
> Fran wrote on 11/7/22 11:45 am:

>> It sounds like you've made a pretty good recovery though over the
>> years since then.......
>
> I did type 'mild', didn't I?? Maybe I should have typed 'very mild'
>
> As my Right Arm had previously been amputated, about the only impact
> I've noticed is, ... well, ... if you could imagine your chest/stomach
> had been very tightly bandaged down the right side only!! Oh, and my
> recent memory is shit!!

What a surprise (not). I suspect that most posters here would have
problems with 'recent memory'. I can tell you what the pattern and
colour was on a set of rompers I had when I was about 3-4 years old but
just don't expect me to be able to tell you what I did yesterday......

On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 23:58:19 +1000, Daniel65
<daniel47@nomail.afraid.org> wrote:

>Fran wrote on 11/7/22 11:40 am:
>
><Snip>
>
>> Yep.  Either would do TMWOT.
>>
>Hmm!! Not knowing what 'TMWOT' stood for, I put it into DuckDuckGo ...
>and three of the offerings were ....
>
>3. To My Way of Thinking, and,
>
>4. To Many Women of Troy, and,
>
>5. The Mystic World of The Templers.
>
>... and, as it was Fran that used the abbreviation, I'm thinking 4!! ;-P
>
>If it had been Petzl using that abbreviation, I would have gone for 5
>.... even with the extra 'T'!!
>
Right again.
--
Petzl
We know the Dumb3 are lying,
they know they are lying,
they know we know they are lying,
we know they know we know they are lying,
but they are still lying.
"Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn"