On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 10:33:16 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <n4h8dgde88ckom4siior6htle2kq0u8br7@4ax.com>, at 09:48:39 on
>Thu, 24 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>remarked:
>
>>>And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>
>>Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>
>I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>called "the House".
>
It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?

In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:

>>>>And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>>
>>>Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>
>>I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>>called "the House".
>>
>It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?

Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
and live alongside their big red friends.
--
Roland Perry

Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 09:12:36 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 24 Jun 2021 09:36:26 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <sb1f74$m1c$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:19:48 on Thu, 24 Jun
>>>> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <dil6dgl61c6k8n66savq2itahnkruu4tqk@4ax.com>, at 17:40:25 on
>>>>>>> Wed, 23 Jun 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>>> So it's not unreasonable to catch a train at a train station.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lots of bus companies agree, by using "Train Station" as a destination.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In one part of the United Kingdom it seems to be the accepted term for a
>>>>>> new build.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.rmi.uk.com/our_projects/newry-train-station/
>>>>>
>>>>> Not just new built; it?s fairly common, though not universal, on signage.
>>>>> My connection to Google is playing up or I?d show you a Street View link to
>>>>> the sign outside Holywood Train Station between Belfast and Bangor.
>>>>
>>>> I've been to Hollywood, but the one south of Dublin. I don't think it
>>>> has a railway station.
>>>>
>>> Google Maps can't even find a bus stop/service for it, never mind a
>>> station.
>>>
>>
>> <https://goo.gl/maps/X166n1dsKeb2LSz38>
>>
> ??
> Looks like an aerial farm.

Could be. It’s near Dublin, though it is to the North of that fair city,
but Google found it for me with a bit of prompting. Maybe there’s yet
another one that Roland went to.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <sb4msd$3pd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:49:01 on Fri, 25 Jun
2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:

>>>>> I've been to Hollywood, but the one south of Dublin. I don't think it
>>>>> has a railway station.
>>>>>
>>>> Google Maps can't even find a bus stop/service for it, never mind a
>>>> station.
>>>>
>>>
>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/X166n1dsKeb2LSz38>
>>>
>> ??
>> Looks like an aerial farm.
>
>Could be. It’s near Dublin, though it is to the North of that fair city,
>but Google found it for me with a bit of prompting. Maybe there’s yet
>another one that Roland went to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood,_County_Wicklow
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sb4msd$3pd$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:49:01 on Fri, 25 Jun
> 2021, Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>
>>>>>> I've been to Hollywood, but the one south of Dublin. I don't think it
>>>>>> has a railway station.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Google Maps can't even find a bus stop/service for it, never mind a
>>>>> station.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://goo.gl/maps/X166n1dsKeb2LSz38>
>>>>
>>> ??
>>> Looks like an aerial farm.
>>
>> Could be. It’s near Dublin, though it is to the North of that fair city,
>> but Google found it for me with a bit of prompting. Maybe there’s yet
>> another one that Roland went to.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollywood,_County_Wicklow

Ah, Col de Wicklow Gap! (I was in Ireland during the preamble to Le Tour
the year they had it in Ireland and TV covered the climb and the descent
with nearly as much interest as in the Pyrenees and the Alps.)

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>remarked:
>
>>>>>And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>>>
>>>>Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>
>>>I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>>>called "the House".
>>>
>>It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>
>Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>and live alongside their big red friends.
>
Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.

In message <3aicdghtb2orvg5v8qh84dga77f81pd3fe@4ax.com>, at 22:27:46 on
Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>remarked:
>>
>>>>>>And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>>
>>>>I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>>>>called "the House".
>>>>
>>>It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>>doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>>don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>>
>>Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>>and live alongside their big red friends.
>>
>Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.

Indeed, but the crews need a base and it's all part of the one emergency
(Fire & Ambulance) service.
--
Roland Perry

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:16:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <3aicdghtb2orvg5v8qh84dga77f81pd3fe@4ax.com>, at 22:27:46 on
>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>remarked:
>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>>>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>remarked:
>>>
>>>>>>>And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>>>>>called "the House".
>>>>>
>>>>It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>>>doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>>>don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>>>
>>>Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>>>and live alongside their big red friends.
>>>
>>Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.
>
>Indeed, but the crews need a base and it's all part of the one emergency
>(Fire & Ambulance) service.
>
In the more general case, ambulance staff don't need accommodation
during the working day as most aren't on standby rather than picking
up work during the day. For non-municipal services there is often no
base other than maybe the ambulance's parking area.

In message <h5dedghfu9th5k1h3t9a1am9l4ef945buj@4ax.com>, at 15:15:30 on
Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:16:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <3aicdghtb2orvg5v8qh84dga77f81pd3fe@4ax.com>, at 22:27:46 on
>>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>remarked:
>>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>>>>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>remarked:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>>>>>>called "the House".
>>>>>>
>>>>>It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>>>>doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>>>>don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>>>>
>>>>Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>>>>and live alongside their big red friends.
>>>>
>>>Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.
>>
>>Indeed, but the crews need a base and it's all part of the one emergency
>>(Fire & Ambulance) service.
>>
>In the more general case, ambulance staff don't need accommodation
>during the working day as most aren't on standby rather than picking
>up work during the day.

And you know this, how?

>For non-municipal services there is often no base other than maybe the
>ambulance's parking area.

Which you are claiming isn't co-located with the Fire Engines?
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <h5dedghfu9th5k1h3t9a1am9l4ef945buj@4ax.com>, at 15:15:30 on
> Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
> remarked:
>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:16:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <3aicdghtb2orvg5v8qh84dga77f81pd3fe@4ax.com>, at 22:27:46 on
>>> Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>> remarked:
>>>> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>>>>> Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>>>>>>> called "the House".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>>>>> doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>>>>> don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>>>>>
>>>>> Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>>>>> and live alongside their big red friends.
>>>>>
>>>> Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.
>>>
>>> Indeed, but the crews need a base and it's all part of the one emergency
>>> (Fire & Ambulance) service.
>>>
>> In the more general case, ambulance staff don't need accommodation
>> during the working day as most aren't on standby rather than picking
>> up work during the day.
>
> And you know this, how?
>
>> For non-municipal services there is often no base other than maybe the
>> ambulance's parking area.
>
> Which you are claiming isn't co-located with the Fire Engines?

Just on the subject of fire and ambulance services….

Firefighters jealously guard their early retirement age on the grounds that
as you get older it is harder to do the job. I have sympathy with this.
However it is difficult for the public purse to fund this early retirement.
Why can’t they get moved over to driving ambulances? Lots of time to learn
the job in the slack periods in the fire station, and they don’t need to
become fully fledged paramedics.

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:27:40 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Just on the subject of fire and ambulance services….
>
>Firefighters jealously guard their early retirement age on the grounds that
>as you get older it is harder to do the job. I have sympathy with this.
>However it is difficult for the public purse to fund this early retirement.
>Why can’t they get moved over to driving ambulances? Lots of time to learn
>the job in the slack periods in the fire station, and they don’t need to
>become fully fledged paramedics.

An ambulance care assistant, which is the least medically trained member
of staff in the ambulance service, is generally considered an
entry-level position from which the entrant is expected to progress to
at least ambulance technician, if not paramedic. Treating it as an
exit-level position, by contrast, taken up by people just short of
retirement, would require a major change in the way that the ambulance
serice is run - not least because people taken on in that category would
be blocking the career path of those who do want to start at the bottom
and work their way up.

Also, in the fire service, driving is a specialist role that not all
firefighters take on. That's partly because fire engines are HGVs and
drivers require an HGV licence even before they get to drive under blues
and twos, but also because size of a fire engine crew means that a
smaller proportion of of staff need to be drivers in the first place. By
contrast, all ambulance personnel are drivers, because ambulances are
either solo or twin-crewed and the service has no space for passengers
(literally!). So not all former firefighters would have transferable
driving skills that could be used in the ambulance service anyway.

Mark

In message <sb7o2c$67b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:27:40 on Sat, 26 Jun
2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <h5dedghfu9th5k1h3t9a1am9l4ef945buj@4ax.com>, at 15:15:30 on
>> Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>> remarked:
>>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:16:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <3aicdghtb2orvg5v8qh84dga77f81pd3fe@4ax.com>, at 22:27:46 on
>>>> Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>>>>>> Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>>>>>>>> called "the House".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>>>>>> doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>>>>>> don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>>>>>> and live alongside their big red friends.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.
>>>>
>>>> Indeed, but the crews need a base and it's all part of the one emergency
>>>> (Fire & Ambulance) service.
>>>>
>>> In the more general case, ambulance staff don't need accommodation
>>> during the working day as most aren't on standby rather than picking
>>> up work during the day.
>>
>> And you know this, how?
>>
>>> For non-municipal services there is often no base other than maybe the
>>> ambulance's parking area.
>>
>> Which you are claiming isn't co-located with the Fire Engines?
>
>Just on the subject of fire and ambulance services….
>
>Firefighters jealously guard their early retirement age on the grounds that
>as you get older it is harder to do the job. I have sympathy with this.
>However it is difficult for the public purse to fund this early retirement.
>Why can’t they get moved over to driving ambulances? Lots of time to learn
>the job in the slack periods in the fire station, and they don’t need to
>become fully fledged paramedics.

I suspect that some do move across, as a second career after their
somewhat young retirement. (Just as the police often move across to
second careers in private security).

And yes, just because someone is wearing a green jumpsuit doesn't mean
they have much in the way of medical qualifications, that's the role of
the second person in the vehicle.
--
Roland Perry

In message <0rvedgprg7cbipp3dehqtd96i3d49o73na@4ax.com>, at 20:38:50 on
Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:

>in the fire service, driving is a specialist role that not all
>firefighters take on. That's partly because fire engines are HGVs and
>drivers require an HGV licence even before they get to drive under blues
>and twos, but also because size of a fire engine crew means that a
>smaller proportion of of staff need to be drivers in the first place. By
>contrast, all ambulance personnel are drivers, because ambulances are
>either solo or twin-crewed and the service has no space for passengers
>(literally!). So not all former firefighters would have transferable
>driving skills that could be used in the ambulance service anyway.

Are you suggesting that the non-driver firemen don't have a regular
licence? How do they get to the fire station (iirc retained
firefighters, who reportedly cover 60% of the country, have to be
able to turn up within five minutes of being paged).
--
Roland Perry

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:znMlYq5KQE1gFAmN@perry.uk...
> In message <sb1f74$m1c$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:19:48 on Thu, 24 Jun 2021,
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> remarked:
>>Marland <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <dil6dgl61c6k8n66savq2itahnkruu4tqk@4ax.com>, at 17:40:25 on
>>>> Wed, 23 Jun 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>> So it's not unreasonable to catch a train at a train station.
>>>>
>>>> Lots of bus companies agree, by using "Train Station" as a destination.
>>>>
>>>
>>> In one part of the United Kingdom it seems to be the accepted term for
>>> a
>>> new build.
>>>
>>> https://www.rmi.uk.com/our_projects/newry-train-station/
>>
>>Not just new built; it’s fairly common, though not universal, on signage.
>>My connection to Google is playing up or I’d show you a Street View link
>>to
>>the sign outside Holywood Train Station between Belfast and Bangor.
>
> I've been to Hollywood, but the one south of Dublin. I don't think it has
> a railway station.

I've been to Dublin, the one East Of San Francisco. It does have a railway
station

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:32:42 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <h5dedghfu9th5k1h3t9a1am9l4ef945buj@4ax.com>, at 15:15:30 on
>Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>remarked:
>>On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:16:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <3aicdghtb2orvg5v8qh84dga77f81pd3fe@4ax.com>, at 22:27:46 on
>>>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>remarked:
>>>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>>>>>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>>remarked:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>>>>>>>called "the House".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>>>>>doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>>>>>don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>>>>>
>>>>>Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>>>>>and live alongside their big red friends.
>>>>>
>>>>Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.
>>>
>>>Indeed, but the crews need a base and it's all part of the one emergency
>>>(Fire & Ambulance) service.
>>>
>>In the more general case, ambulance staff don't need accommodation
>>during the working day as most aren't on standby rather than picking
>>up work during the day.
>
>And you know this, how?
>
Fire services don't have a constant supply of burning buildings to
deal with. Ambulances OTOH usually have a fairly steady supply of
business. In the US case above where services are co-located there
will be opportunity to share those services but otherwise it will vary
according to different employers' setups.

>>For non-municipal services there is often no base other than maybe the
>>ambulance's parking area.
>
>Which you are claiming isn't co-located with the Fire Engines?
>
Why would someone they don't work for provide parking space ?

On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 20:38:50 +0100, Mark Goodge
<usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:27:40 -0000 (UTC), Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>Just on the subject of fire and ambulance services….
>>
>>Firefighters jealously guard their early retirement age on the grounds that
>>as you get older it is harder to do the job. I have sympathy with this.
>>However it is difficult for the public purse to fund this early retirement.
>>Why can’t they get moved over to driving ambulances? Lots of time to learn
>>the job in the slack periods in the fire station, and they don’t need to
>>become fully fledged paramedics.
>
>An ambulance care assistant, which is the least medically trained member
>of staff in the ambulance service, is generally considered an
>entry-level position from which the entrant is expected to progress to
>at least ambulance technician, if not paramedic. Treating it as an
>exit-level position, by contrast, taken up by people just short of
>retirement, would require a major change in the way that the ambulance
>serice is run - not least because people taken on in that category would
>be blocking the career path of those who do want to start at the bottom
>and work their way up.
>
>Also, in the fire service, driving is a specialist role that not all
>firefighters take on. That's partly because fire engines are HGVs and
>drivers require an HGV licence even before they get to drive under blues
>and twos, but also because size of a fire engine crew means that a
>smaller proportion of of staff need to be drivers in the first place. By
>contrast, all ambulance personnel are drivers, because ambulances are
>either solo or twin-crewed and the service has no space for passengers
>(literally!). So not all former firefighters would have transferable
>driving skills that could be used in the ambulance service anyway.
>
Ambulance crew are not all drivers and even those who are won't all be
suitably qualified to drive under emergency conditions.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 07:12:20 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <sb7o2c$67b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:27:40 on Sat, 26 Jun
>2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <h5dedghfu9th5k1h3t9a1am9l4ef945buj@4ax.com>, at 15:15:30 on
>>> Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>> remarked:
>>>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:16:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <3aicdghtb2orvg5v8qh84dga77f81pd3fe@4ax.com>, at 22:27:46 on
>>>>> Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>>>>>>> Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>>>>>>>>> called "the House".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>>>>>>> doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>>>>>>> don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>>>>>>> and live alongside their big red friends.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.
>>>>>
>>>>> Indeed, but the crews need a base and it's all part of the one emergency
>>>>> (Fire & Ambulance) service.
>>>>>
>>>> In the more general case, ambulance staff don't need accommodation
>>>> during the working day as most aren't on standby rather than picking
>>>> up work during the day.
>>>
>>> And you know this, how?
>>>
>>>> For non-municipal services there is often no base other than maybe the
>>>> ambulance's parking area.
>>>
>>> Which you are claiming isn't co-located with the Fire Engines?
>>
>>Just on the subject of fire and ambulance services….
>>
>>Firefighters jealously guard their early retirement age on the grounds that
>>as you get older it is harder to do the job. I have sympathy with this.
>>However it is difficult for the public purse to fund this early retirement.
>>Why can’t they get moved over to driving ambulances? Lots of time to learn
>>the job in the slack periods in the fire station, and they don’t need to
>>become fully fledged paramedics.
>
>I suspect that some do move across, as a second career after their
>somewhat young retirement. (Just as the police often move across to
>second careers in private security).
>
>And yes, just because someone is wearing a green jumpsuit doesn't mean
>they have much in the way of medical qualifications, that's the role of
>the second person in the vehicle.
>
The second (sometimes third) person is usually the lesser qualified.
Training and experience applies to both medical and driving matters so
the more experienced person is likely to be in the driver's seat as is
fairly evident in the many television programmes featuring ambulance
services. You also have to consider single-crewed ambulances so the
more skilled ambulance personnel require matching driving
qualifications. In the London Ambulance Service you won't be allowed
in the driver's seat of a working ambulance without first passing a
four-week driving course.

In message <llkgdgd1q78u2vq3droi0760qqaaqlhhn5@4ax.com>, at 11:38:07 on
Sun, 27 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 07:12:20 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <sb7o2c$67b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:27:40 on Sat, 26 Jun
>>2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <h5dedghfu9th5k1h3t9a1am9l4ef945buj@4ax.com>, at 15:15:30 on
>>>> Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:16:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <3aicdghtb2orvg5v8qh84dga77f81pd3fe@4ax.com>, at 22:27:46 on
>>>>>> Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>>>>>>>> Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP,
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I
>>>>>>>>>>think it's
>>>>>>>>>> called "the House".
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>>>>>>>> doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>>>>>>>> don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>>>>>>>> and live alongside their big red friends.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Indeed, but the crews need a base and it's all part of the one emergency
>>>>>> (Fire & Ambulance) service.
>>>>>>
>>>>> In the more general case, ambulance staff don't need accommodation
>>>>> during the working day as most aren't on standby rather than picking
>>>>> up work during the day.
>>>>
>>>> And you know this, how?
>>>>
>>>>> For non-municipal services there is often no base other than maybe the
>>>>> ambulance's parking area.
>>>>
>>>> Which you are claiming isn't co-located with the Fire Engines?
>>>
>>>Just on the subject of fire and ambulance services….
>>>
>>>Firefighters jealously guard their early retirement age on the grounds that
>>>as you get older it is harder to do the job. I have sympathy with this.
>>>However it is difficult for the public purse to fund this early retirement.
>>>Why can’t they get moved over to driving ambulances? Lots of time to learn
>>>the job in the slack periods in the fire station, and they don’t need to
>>>become fully fledged paramedics.
>>
>>I suspect that some do move across, as a second career after their
>>somewhat young retirement. (Just as the police often move across to
>>second careers in private security).
>>
>>And yes, just because someone is wearing a green jumpsuit doesn't mean
>>they have much in the way of medical qualifications, that's the role of
>>the second person in the vehicle.
>>
>The second (sometimes third) person is usually the lesser qualified.
>Training and experience applies to both medical and driving matters so
>the more experienced person is likely to be in the driver's seat as is
>fairly evident in the many television programmes featuring ambulance
>services. You also have to consider single-crewed ambulances so the
>more skilled ambulance personnel require matching driving
>qualifications.

That still leaves some drivers wearing paramedic green jumpsuits having
little or no medical training. In any event, I thought that twin-crewed
ambulances rotated the driving through the day, so while one might be
dual-qualified, the one who turns up in the drivers seat at random might
well not be.

>In the London Ambulance Service you won't be allowed in the driver's
>seat of a working ambulance without first passing a four-week driving
>course.

Which is disjoint from needing an HGV licence.
--
Roland Perry

In message <kpjgdg1essmeeftom03r1a82snk5c03225@4ax.com>, at 11:22:40 on
Sun, 27 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:32:42 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <h5dedghfu9th5k1h3t9a1am9l4ef945buj@4ax.com>, at 15:15:30 on
>>Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>remarked:
>>>On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:16:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <3aicdghtb2orvg5v8qh84dga77f81pd3fe@4ax.com>, at 22:27:46 on
>>>>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>remarked:
>>>>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>>>>>>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>>>remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>>>>>>>>called "the House".
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>>>>>>doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>>>>>>don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>>>>>>and live alongside their big red friends.
>>>>>>
>>>>>Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.
>>>>
>>>>Indeed, but the crews need a base and it's all part of the one emergency
>>>>(Fire & Ambulance) service.
>>>>
>>>In the more general case, ambulance staff don't need accommodation
>>>during the working day as most aren't on standby rather than picking
>>>up work during the day.
>>
>>And you know this, how?
>>
>Fire services don't have a constant supply of burning buildings to
>deal with. Ambulances OTOH usually have a fairly steady supply of
>business. In the US case above where services are co-located there
>will be opportunity to share those services but otherwise it will vary
>according to different employers' setups.

OK so you don't *know*, you are just assuming things would be organised
like that.

>>>For non-municipal services there is often no base other than maybe the
>>>ambulance's parking area.
>>
>>Which you are claiming isn't co-located with the Fire Engines?
>>
>Why would someone they don't work for provide parking space ?

They both work for the same emergency-services department.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:44:48 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <0rvedgprg7cbipp3dehqtd96i3d49o73na@4ax.com>, at 20:38:50 on
>Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>remarked:
>
>>in the fire service, driving is a specialist role that not all
>>firefighters take on. That's partly because fire engines are HGVs and
>>drivers require an HGV licence even before they get to drive under blues
>>and twos, but also because size of a fire engine crew means that a
>>smaller proportion of of staff need to be drivers in the first place. By
>>contrast, all ambulance personnel are drivers, because ambulances are
>>either solo or twin-crewed and the service has no space for passengers
>>(literally!). So not all former firefighters would have transferable
>>driving skills that could be used in the ambulance service anyway.
>
>Are you suggesting that the non-driver firemen don't have a regular
>licence? How do they get to the fire station (iirc retained
>firefighters, who reportedly cover 60% of the country, have to be
>able to turn up within five minutes of being paged).

They won't be trained to drive under blues and tows, though, and
therefore don't have the transferrable skills to go straight into
ambulance driving without having that training.

Mark

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:44:48 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <0rvedgprg7cbipp3dehqtd96i3d49o73na@4ax.com>, at 20:38:50 on
>> Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>> remarked:
>>
>>> in the fire service, driving is a specialist role that not all
>>> firefighters take on. That's partly because fire engines are HGVs and
>>> drivers require an HGV licence even before they get to drive under blues
>>> and twos, but also because size of a fire engine crew means that a
>>> smaller proportion of of staff need to be drivers in the first place. By
>>> contrast, all ambulance personnel are drivers, because ambulances are
>>> either solo or twin-crewed and the service has no space for passengers
>>> (literally!). So not all former firefighters would have transferable
>>> driving skills that could be used in the ambulance service anyway.
>>
>> Are you suggesting that the non-driver firemen don't have a regular
>> licence? How do they get to the fire station (iirc retained
>> firefighters, who reportedly cover 60% of the country, have to be
>> able to turn up within five minutes of being paged).
>
> They won't be trained to drive under blues and tows, though, and
> therefore don't have the transferrable skills to go straight into
> ambulance driving without having that training.
>
> Mark
>

This all seems to be quibbles about why things can’t be done. Towards the
end of service as a firefighter there ought to be lots of training
opportunities and time to do it. Many other European countries appear to
have their ambulance service provided by the fire dept.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 11:55:00 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

>Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:44:48 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <0rvedgprg7cbipp3dehqtd96i3d49o73na@4ax.com>, at 20:38:50 on
>>> Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>> remarked:
>>>
>>>> in the fire service, driving is a specialist role that not all
>>>> firefighters take on. That's partly because fire engines are HGVs and
>>>> drivers require an HGV licence even before they get to drive under blues
>>>> and twos, but also because size of a fire engine crew means that a
>>>> smaller proportion of of staff need to be drivers in the first place. By
>>>> contrast, all ambulance personnel are drivers, because ambulances are
>>>> either solo or twin-crewed and the service has no space for passengers
>>>> (literally!). So not all former firefighters would have transferable
>>>> driving skills that could be used in the ambulance service anyway.
>>>
>>> Are you suggesting that the non-driver firemen don't have a regular
>>> licence? How do they get to the fire station (iirc retained
>>> firefighters, who reportedly cover 60% of the country, have to be
>>> able to turn up within five minutes of being paged).
>>
>> They won't be trained to drive under blues and tows, though, and
>> therefore don't have the transferrable skills to go straight into
>> ambulance driving without having that training.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>
>This all seems to be quibbles about why things can’t be done. Towards the
>end of service as a firefighter there ought to be lots of training
>opportunities and time to do it. Many other European countries appear to
>have their ambulance service provided by the fire dept.
>
Probably all done with coordination of driving and medical training.
Some firemen in the UK are already trained as Community First
Responders with a few fire brigade cars in use by them allowing
blue-light attendance, e.g. North Yorkshire FRS :-
http://www.ukemergency.co.uk/category/ambulance/first-responders/
That doesn't make them paramedics but will already have provided some
basic training if not actual experience.

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:05:41 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <llkgdgd1q78u2vq3droi0760qqaaqlhhn5@4ax.com>, at 11:38:07 on
>Sun, 27 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>remarked:
>>On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 07:12:20 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <sb7o2c$67b$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:27:40 on Sat, 26 Jun
>>>2021, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <h5dedghfu9th5k1h3t9a1am9l4ef945buj@4ax.com>, at 15:15:30 on
>>>>> Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:16:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In message <3aicdghtb2orvg5v8qh84dga77f81pd3fe@4ax.com>, at 22:27:46 on
>>>>>>> Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>>> On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>>>>>>>>> Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I
>>>>>>>>>>>think it's
>>>>>>>>>>> called "the House".
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>>>>>>>>> doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>>>>>>>>> don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>>>>>>>>> and live alongside their big red friends.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Indeed, but the crews need a base and it's all part of the one emergency
>>>>>>> (Fire & Ambulance) service.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the more general case, ambulance staff don't need accommodation
>>>>>> during the working day as most aren't on standby rather than picking
>>>>>> up work during the day.
>>>>>
>>>>> And you know this, how?
>>>>>
>>>>>> For non-municipal services there is often no base other than maybe the
>>>>>> ambulance's parking area.
>>>>>
>>>>> Which you are claiming isn't co-located with the Fire Engines?
>>>>
>>>>Just on the subject of fire and ambulance services….
>>>>
>>>>Firefighters jealously guard their early retirement age on the grounds that
>>>>as you get older it is harder to do the job. I have sympathy with this.
>>>>However it is difficult for the public purse to fund this early retirement.
>>>>Why can’t they get moved over to driving ambulances? Lots of time to learn
>>>>the job in the slack periods in the fire station, and they don’t need to
>>>>become fully fledged paramedics.
>>>
>>>I suspect that some do move across, as a second career after their
>>>somewhat young retirement. (Just as the police often move across to
>>>second careers in private security).
>>>
>>>And yes, just because someone is wearing a green jumpsuit doesn't mean
>>>they have much in the way of medical qualifications, that's the role of
>>>the second person in the vehicle.
>>>
>>The second (sometimes third) person is usually the lesser qualified.
>>Training and experience applies to both medical and driving matters so
>>the more experienced person is likely to be in the driver's seat as is
>>fairly evident in the many television programmes featuring ambulance
>>services. You also have to consider single-crewed ambulances so the
>>more skilled ambulance personnel require matching driving
>>qualifications.
>
>That still leaves some drivers wearing paramedic green jumpsuits having
>little or no medical training. In any event, I thought that twin-crewed
>ambulances rotated the driving through the day, so while one might be
>dual-qualified, the one who turns up in the drivers seat at random might
>well not be.
>
>>In the London Ambulance Service you won't be allowed in the driver's
>>seat of a working ambulance without first passing a four-week driving
>>course.
>
>Which is disjoint from needing an HGV licence.
>
What has an HGV licence got to do with it ? A driver is not regarded
as competent to drive on blue lights without having undertaken
relevant training in driving the vehicles under the adverse conditions
likely to be encountered.

In message <rdogdglup7m26jri2mg2k4ov12jh6ekovj@4ax.com>, at 12:32:56 on
Sun, 27 Jun 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
>On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 08:44:48 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <0rvedgprg7cbipp3dehqtd96i3d49o73na@4ax.com>, at 20:38:50 on
>>Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>remarked:
>>
>>>in the fire service, driving is a specialist role that not all
>>>firefighters take on. That's partly because fire engines are HGVs and
>>>drivers require an HGV licence even before they get to drive under blues
>>>and twos, but also because size of a fire engine crew means that a
>>>smaller proportion of of staff need to be drivers in the first place. By
>>>contrast, all ambulance personnel are drivers, because ambulances are
>>>either solo or twin-crewed and the service has no space for passengers
>>>(literally!). So not all former firefighters would have transferable
>>>driving skills that could be used in the ambulance service anyway.
>>
>>Are you suggesting that the non-driver firemen don't have a regular
>>licence? How do they get to the fire station (iirc retained
>>firefighters, who reportedly cover 60% of the country, have to be
>>able to turn up within five minutes of being paged).
>
>They won't be trained to drive under blues and tows, though, and
>therefore don't have the transferrable skills to go straight into
>ambulance driving without having that training.

I suspect all drivers will need the training course, whatever their
pedigree.
--
Roland Perry

On Sun, 27 Jun 2021 12:07:01 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <kpjgdg1essmeeftom03r1a82snk5c03225@4ax.com>, at 11:22:40 on
>Sun, 27 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>remarked:
>>On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 17:32:42 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <h5dedghfu9th5k1h3t9a1am9l4ef945buj@4ax.com>, at 15:15:30 on
>>>Sat, 26 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>remarked:
>>>>On Sat, 26 Jun 2021 06:16:14 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In message <3aicdghtb2orvg5v8qh84dga77f81pd3fe@4ax.com>, at 22:27:46 on
>>>>>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>>remarked:
>>>>>>On Fri, 25 Jun 2021 14:33:29 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>In message <i1mbdgpokj3bfucnd0evgm1avf2nr4jo3i@4ax.com>, at 14:26:07 on
>>>>>>>Fri, 25 Jun 2021, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>>>>>>>remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>And plod often goes "to the station". In the case of BTP, doubly so.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Ditto fire and ambulance when in their own contexts.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I don't have personal experience of those, but in the USA I think it's
>>>>>>>>>called "the House".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>It certainly seems to be common for fire vehicles in the USA. Google
>>>>>>>>doesn't seem to come up similarly for ambulances, maybe because they
>>>>>>>>don't have resting places in the same way that fire vehicles do ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Public ambulances in the USA are usually part of the Fire Department,
>>>>>>>and live alongside their big red friends.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>Ambulances tend not to get as much rest time as their big red friends.
>>>>>
>>>>>Indeed, but the crews need a base and it's all part of the one emergency
>>>>>(Fire & Ambulance) service.
>>>>>
>>>>In the more general case, ambulance staff don't need accommodation
>>>>during the working day as most aren't on standby rather than picking
>>>>up work during the day.
>>>
>>>And you know this, how?
>>>
>>Fire services don't have a constant supply of burning buildings to
>>deal with. Ambulances OTOH usually have a fairly steady supply of
>>business. In the US case above where services are co-located there
>>will be opportunity to share those services but otherwise it will vary
>>according to different employers' setups.
>
>OK so you don't *know*, you are just assuming things would be organised
>like that.
>
You seem to we warming up one of your daft arguments again.
Ambulance provision as a municipal service is far from universal in
the USA. The same applies to fire services, in particular away from
cities and large towns where there can be a large degree of volunteer
involvement supported by local fund-raising with inessential welfare
facilities minimal or absent.

>>>>For non-municipal services there is often no base other than maybe the
>>>>ambulance's parking area.
>>>
>>>Which you are claiming isn't co-located with the Fire Engines?
>>>
>>Why would someone they don't work for provide parking space ?
>
>They both work for the same emergency-services department.
>
Non-municipal and/or private ambulance services clearly do not.