Bob Latham <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
> In article <j5skj7Fteh8U1@mid.individual.net>,
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> .
>> Yes I know that, but there's undeveloped gas sitting out there
>> waiting to be "dug up" which we've agreed to leave in place, while
>> we buy expensive gas from other countries instead.
>
> Exactly so. Having energy people can afford is far less important
> than virtue signalling.
>
> Bob.
>
>

We need that gas for the future. There’s not that much remaining and it’s
best not wasted. Clearly we need some gas, especially for when renewables
aren’t supplying, but it’s madness to squander it when you can produce
renewable generation.

In article <59b3ec6c37charles@candehope.me.uk>,
charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:

> I charge at 24 miles per hour on a 32A feed. That would drop to
> about 10 miles per hour on a 13 A feed. 200 miles would take 20
> hours!

That's useful info. My leccy is about 18p /KWh it will be higher soon.

So 10 hours charging at 3KW for 100 miles = £5.40.

Is that about right?

Bob.

In article <pb9ivgtk6gt3mk8dql1n8fasa9nc229f5j@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

> Even the 60A fuse (i.e. 15kW at 250V) in the electricity supply to
> my house couldn't cope with charging a 75kWh car battery at the 10
> hour rate, cooking my dinner, boiling the kettle, and providing hot
> water and heating my house electrically at the same rate that my
> 24kW gas combi boiler currently does it. I'm sure it will be a
> similar story in a great many other houses. Somebody needs to find
> the back of an envelope and do a few sums. (If they know how).

+1

Exactly so.

I also have a 24KW gas boiler and anything less is not enough to be
warm on the coldest days. I have a 10KW shower and an cooker. Often
all in use at the same time. No car to charge.

The penny hasn't dropped yet with the majority yet.

Bob.

Tweed wrote:

> We need that gas for the future.

That's not the greenies plan, they want to just leave it there and forget all
about it.

Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Tweed wrote:
>
>> We need that gas for the future.
>
> That's not the greenies plan, they want to just leave it there and forget all
> about it.
>

Indeed they do, but reality will catch up with them. I’m arguing from the
point of view of energy security. You don’t have to cut *all* fossil fuel
burning to still make a significant reduction by the use of renewable
generation. The cost of offshore wind generation is falling quite rapidly
so it makes sense to use it when it is available.

In article <pb9ivgtk6gt3mk8dql1n8fasa9nc229f5j@4ax.com>, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 09:41:07 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> >"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
> >news:fjvhvg15d72cjquq9a396cp46mpqoigu7o@4ax.com...
> >> On Tue, 1 Feb 2022 09:16:34 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> >>
> >>>Do we in the UK have enough generating capacity to support the change
> >>>from petrol/diesel to electric cars and the gradual change from
> >>>gas/oil for central heating to electric heating via ground source?
> >>
> >> And do we have enough copper to upgrade all the distribution wiring,
> >> or any politicians who realise that we will need to?
> >
> >Very true. Everyone gets home from work at about 5-6 PM, plugs in their
> >car to charge and turns on their electric ground-source heating. Can
> >the wiring cope? Maybe all the copper telephone cable that BT is
> >wanting to replace with fibre can be turned into (*) electricity cable
> >;-)
> >
> >
> >(*) I mean by melting down and making new cable, not just feeding mains
> >down telephone-grade copper wiring.

> Even the 60A fuse (i.e. 15kW at 250V) in the electricity supply to my
> house couldn't cope with charging a 75kWh car battery at the 10 hour
> rate, cooking my dinner, boiling the kettle, and providing hot water and
> heating my house electrically at the same rate that my 24kW gas combi
> boiler currently does it. I'm sure it will be a similar story in a great
> many other houses. Somebody needs to find the back of an envelope and do
> a few sums. (If they know how).

I, too, have a 60A incoming fuse. The controller for the charging point
monitors the total load current and turns off the charger if tehntotal load
is too great. It did that last Sunday when both top & bottomm ovens were in
use.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 01/02/2022 12:08, Bob Latham wrote:
> Very little of that in my supermarkets in fact my wife has just had
> an email from Tesco about her delivery for this afternoon. All item
> in stock and no substitutions. Would you like me to post the email?

Like most others, I am yet to see signifant numbers of empty shelves and
we are quite vulnerable here. It only needs the A82 or A9 to be blocked
by snow or a Road Traffic Accident and the shelves can be quickly emptied.

On 01/02/2022 11:11, Bob Latham wrote:

Fake news that has been reported to
n e w s @ i n d i v i d u a l . n e t

> In article <st9skt$3g0$1@dont-email.me>,
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> On 31/01/2022 22:45, williamwright wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm in Yorkshire, been here all my life. Never yet met anyone who
>>> thinks the earth is flat.
>
> No, me neither in the West Mids.

Because it was already considered flat while you were being brought up
and educated.

>>> Hell of a lot though who think that the global warming hypothesis
>>> is at best over-stated and at worst a massive scam.
>
> Yes, same here. The BS almost entirely middle class lefties with an
> agenda. When men stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing;
> they believe in anything.

Because it wasn't considered so while you were being brought up and
educated, and you're incapable of adjusting to new ideas.

>>> What's more there's a lot round here who are mightily pissed off
>>> with the BBC for other reasons as well. I think it's because we
>>> do tend to think for ourselves, and we are natural sceptics.
>
> Yes again. We don't sit around clapping the BBC like seals in the zoo
> here either, most see them for what they are: propaganda pushers.

You are the worst propaganda pusher here. The BBC are certainly not
faultless, but they are the best source of news we have, for all that.

>> Those two paragraphs are rather self-contradictory, if you thought
>> for yourselves, you'd find out enough about global warming to know
>> that it's real and happening.
>
> Where, I can't find it.

Because you won't look.

> I have seen very slightly milder winters but
> nothing negative, all good and no proof it's caused by CO2 either
> because it isn't. 7 years now without OVERALL warming but CO2
> continues upwards.
>
> There is proof the planet has more green than before and that is due
> to CO2 being plant food.

TROLL! PROVEN LIE REFUTED MULTIPLE TIMES REPEATED YET AGAIN!

For example ...

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-17710-7

"Anthropogenic climate change has driven over 5 million km2 of drylands
towards desertification

Abstract

Drylands cover 41% of the earth’s land surface and include 45% of the
world’s agricultural land. These regions are among the most vulnerable
ecosystems to anthropogenic climate and land use change and are under
threat of desertification."

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ldr.3556

"Global desertification vulnerability to climate change and human activities

Abstract

Desertification is the impoverishment of arid, semiarid, and some
subhumid ecosystems. The assessment of global scale desertification
vulnerability to climate change and human activity is important to help
decision makers formulate the best strategies for land rehabilitation
and combat global desertification in sensitive areas. There is no global
desertification vulnerability map that considers both climate change and
human activities. The main aim of this study was to construct a new
index, the global desertification vulnerability index (GDVI), by
combining climate change and human activity, provide another perspective
on desertification vulnerability on a global scale, and project its
future evolution. Using the probability density function of the GDVI, we
classified desertification vulnerability into four classes: very high,
high, medium, and low. The results of the analysis indicated that areas
around deserts and barren land have a higher risk of desertification.
Areas with a moderate, high, and very high desertification risk
accounted for 13%, 7%, and 9% of the global area, respectively. Among
the representative concentration pathways (RCPs), RCP8.5 projected that
the area of moderate to very high desertification risk will increase by
23% by the end of this century. The areas where desertification risks
are predicted to increase over time are mainly in Africa, North America,
and the northern areas of China and India."

Etc, etc.

> Indeed the Office of National Statistics assessed deaths from extreme
> cold/heat for the first two decades of this century. On average,
> 27,755 FEWER people die annually in England and Wales, mainly due to
> warmer winters. The exact OPPOSITE of a CRISIS.

Stay in after school and write out 1,000 times:
"The UK is not the world"

> [Propaganda snipped]

Stick to facts.

> Because we have a public subjected to propaganda and not education
> from the the media we have a population who on the whole have no idea
> how much of this killer, awful pollution CO2 is in the atmosphere.
> On the rare occasions it's ever mentioned it will be in meaningless
> but scary gigatonnes or very rarely just possibly 412ppm. Nothing
> with any proportional meaning to the public like a percentage that
> would increase understanding and do nothing for the fear/agenda.

The figures are given in an appropriate manner exactly analogous to
percentages.

> Try asking people at random, the majority have no idea. Isn't that
> strange, you would think with this being the crisis to end all crisis
> everyone would know precisely how much of this killer was around, we
> know how much covid there is.

We don't, we only know approximate minimum figures, not actual figures.

> But honestly they don't. If you then tell them its a trace gas
> 0.0412% of the atmosphere be prepared for disbelief and have evidence
> with you, or they will not accept it. They've not been educated,
> they've been brainwashed.
>
> Go on to tell them that around around 6% of that comes from burning
> fossil fuels (FF) >50% from the oceans and 38% from breath
> exhalation. Then crown it by saying that the UK produces around 1% of
> the world's FF CO2.

They accept what experts in the scientific field have to say on the
matter, not what is claimed on Shitter by self-appointed so-called
'experts' who have zilch relevant scientific knowledge, as you do.

> So the great plan is to bankrupt Britain,

Stay in after school and write out 1,000 times:
"Britain is not the world"

> put millions into fuel
> poverty and cold homes, abandon boilers, cars and a life to reduce 1%
> of the world's FF CO2 to zero. That's roughly 0.00003% of the
> atmosphere and these lunatics believe it's changing the weather.

Again, you are applying UK only figures to the global system, stay in
after school and write out 1,000 times more:
"Britain is not the world"

> I
> presume they've not looked at the CO2 history of the world where for
> most of history it was far higher that now

TROLL! PROVEN LIE REFUTED MULTIPLE TIMES REPEATED YET AGAIN!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_in_Earth%27s_atmosphere

> and around 15 times higher
> when life itself really burst out on the planet. We had an ice age
> with CO2 far higher.

TROLL! PROVEN LIE REFUTED MULTIPLE TIMES REPEATED YET AGAIN!

To remind you, as you have a 'habit' of 'forgetting' things that don't
fit your quasi-religion, this claim originally came from here ...
https://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html
.... and was drawn up by the page's author Monte Hieb - we know this
for certain because he gives underneath it two *separate* and
*different* citations for the source data of the two plots in it, but
*none* for the graph itself. There are several problems with this graph
which are discussed below, but for now, let's take a closer a look at
the graph's author, who has no qualifications in climate science, his
only two papers being ...

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Monte_Hieb
"Biaxial Horizontal Swelling Strain in West Virginia Coal Mine Roof
Rocks in Response to Moisture Adsorption"
"Passive mine blast attenuators constructed of rock rubble for
protecting ventilation seals"

.... so he's yet another geologist paid by the coal and mining industries
and dancing to their tune.

> Explain why at 438 million years ago we had an ice age with CO2 at
> 4000ppm. If CO2 is the temperature control knob, how did we get that
> ice age? You simply cannot deny that there must be another factor it
> cannot be CO2 at that point in history or any other. QED!

https://groups.google.com/d/msg/uk.tech.digital-tv/P2ea1shN0ns/yBajVFKoBgAJ

I've explained it already - again you chose to ignore it because the
explanation didn't fit your religion - but in fact I've since
discovered two more things about that graph which makes it even more
misrepresentational ...

The first is simple enough, the temperature scale doesn't start at 0 deg
C, now I wonder why he's done that? It couldn't have been visually to
make the temperature curve appear well below the CO2 curve, could it?

On 01/02/2022 11:37, MB wrote:
>
> On 01/02/2022 11:11, Bob Latham wrote:
>>
>> Yes, same here. The BS almost entirely middle class lefties with an
>> agenda. When men stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing;
>> they believe in anything.
>
> The best example I remember was someone who said that if you go to the
> appropriate authorities and ask for a grant to study the breeding habits
> of squirrels in South East England then you will be unlikely to get
> anything.  But ask for a grant to study the effect of "global warming"
> on the breeding habits of squirrels in South East England then they will
> be queuing up to give you money.

Where is your *EVIDENCE* for this claim?

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In article <stbebb$v3s$1@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 01/02/2022 12:08, Bob Latham wrote:
> > Very little of that in my supermarkets in fact my wife has just had
> > an email from Tesco about her delivery for this afternoon. All item
> > in stock and no substitutions. Would you like me to post the email?

> Like most others, I am yet to see signifant numbers of empty shelves and
> we are quite vulnerable here. It only needs the A82 or A9 to be blocked
> by snow or a Road Traffic Accident and the shelves can be quickly emptied.

Our local Waitrose ran out of Orkney Oatcakes last week

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 01/02/2022 11:29, Tweed wrote:
>
> Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>>
>> If we had invested in (very clean and very safe) nuclear power we
>> wouldn't have such deep gaps to fill. Yes, I know this is hindsight
>> but some foresight now would suggest more investment in clean base
>> power generation and wind/sun isn't it.
>
> We probably need a mix of both. Fission isn’t proving to be a very cheap
> form of electricity, so there’s a cost in getting that base load. SMRs are
> being touted as the way forwards, but they aren’t yet proven in the field
> at scale and will doubtless come with their own undiscovered issues and
> costs. Unfortunately decades of let the market decide policy has done just
> that, and the market is extracting money from our wallets handsomely.

+1

And how many times must I remind people here that strategically nuclear
is an unsafe option for a country with no indigenous reserves worth
mentioning of fissile material?

- The world as a whole doesn't have enough fissile fuel (bottom graph:
without 'Prospective mines' which is undefined but presumably means
something like 'believed from preliminary surveys to exist' but which
must therefore be subject to significant uncertainty, total current
world supplies don't cover the 2019 Reference Scenario, which is their
name for the most recently compiled, 2019, predictions of demand) ...

https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/nuclear-fuel-cycle/uranium-resources/uranium-markets.aspx

- The UK has bugger all of the above!

- That currently nuclear is by far the most expensive means of
generation by source in the UK, about double the cost of the next most
expensive, offshore wind.

We have far more fossil fuels than we have nuclear fuels, so it would be
strategically safer to burn the fossil-fuels and capture the carbon from
doing so ...

UK Coal:

http://www.solidfuel.co.uk/main_pages/education.htm

"UK Coal Reserves
Economically recoverable coal reserves for existing deep mines and
opencast sites in Britain are estimated to be around 400 million
tonnes. However, the total potential British coal reserves are much
larger. The Coal Authority, the body responsible for directing the
British coal industry, has indicated that in 2005 coal resources at
existing deep mines and existing, planned and known potential
surface-mining sites were in the order of 900 million tonnes, with
approximately one-third in deep mines and two-thirds at surface-mining
sites. Additional recoverable tonnages considered to be potentially
available from new or expanded deep-mining operations amounted to
almost 1.4 billion tonnes!!"

UK Gas From Coal:

http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/53420/cluff-natural-resources-excited-about-potential-of-britains-stranded-coal-reserves-53420.html

"“The United Kingdom is well placed within Europe in having large
reserves of indigenous coal both onshore and offshore in the southern
North Sea,” points out the UK’s Coal Authority, now part of the
Department of Energy and Climate Change.

“These reserves have the potential to provide security of future
energy supplies long after oil and natural gas are exhausted.”

The key to commercialising the nation’s vast beds of fossil fuel is a
process called underground coal gasification (UCG) – a discrete,
environmentally friendly method of liberating the energy content of
the coal. What’s created is a synthesis gas, or Syngas.

The process uses directional drilling techniques that are commonplace
in the oil and gas sector to follow the coal seam. But crucially it
doesn’t involve deploying the fracking technology that has been
vilified despite transforming the US gas industry.

The UK resource suitable for deep seam UCG is estimated at 17 billion
tonnes, or 300 years' supply at current consumption, according to a
Department of Trade & Industry report."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22432130

""It's an unusual fact that despite the industrial revolution and
everything that's happened since, 75% of British coal is still
underground," he said.

"Under the North Sea there are vast deposits. We're talking about two
billion tonnes of coal off the coast here. Now, to give you some
measure of that, two billion tonnes has more energy in it than we've
ever extracted from the totality of North Sea gas since we began.""

UK Oil:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_oil

"UK sources give a range of estimates of reserves, but even using the
most optimistic "maximum" estimate of ultimate recovery, 76% had been
recovered at end 2010."

So we could probably assume that at least about 15% of the total yield
to date still remains.

"... the highest annual production was seen in 1999, with offshore oil
production in that year of 407×106 m³ (398 million barrels) and had
declined to 231×106 m³ (220 million barrels) in 2007.[20] This was the
largest decrease of any other oil exporting nation in the world, and
has led to Britain becoming a net importer of crude for the first time
in decades, as recognized by the energy policy of the United Kingdom.
The production is expected to fall to one-third of its peak by 2020."

So UK oil production is falling, and we are importing, but we do still
have worthwhile reserves.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 01/02/2022 11:54, Bob Latham wrote:
>
> In article <j5skj7Fteh8U1@mid.individual.net>,
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Yes I know that, but there's undeveloped gas sitting out there
>> waiting to be "dug up" which we've agreed to leave in place, while
>> we buy expensive gas from other countries instead.
>
> Exactly so. Having energy people can afford is far less important
> than virtue signalling.

I think the point that perhaps Andy and you haven't grasped is that our
gas was left in place because at the time it was cheaper to import it
from other countries. However, that has benefited us, because it means
our reserves are greater than otherwise they would have been.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 01/02/2022 13:12, Tweed wrote:
>
> Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Tweed wrote:
>>>
>>> We need that gas for the future.
>>
>> That's not the greenies plan, they want to just leave it there and forget all
>> about it.
>
> Indeed they do, but reality will catch up with them.

I think that perhaps both of you are arguing against stereotypes rather
than reality. I consider myself to be quite 'green', certainly compared
with most people here, but I know of no-one knowledgeable in these
matters who thinks the world can give up on fossil fuels in the
immediate future. The truth is that we will have to continue to burn
them, but try and minimise the quantities burnt and capture the carbon
while doing so.

> I’m arguing from the
> point of view of energy security. You don’t have to cut *all* fossil fuel
> burning to still make a significant reduction by the use of renewable
> generation. The cost of offshore wind generation is falling quite rapidly
> so it makes sense to use it when it is available.

Yes, exactly.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 01/02/2022 12:55, Bob Latham wrote:
>
> In article <pb9ivgtk6gt3mk8dql1n8fasa9nc229f5j@4ax.com>,
> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> Even the 60A fuse (i.e. 15kW at 250V) in the electricity supply to
>> my house couldn't cope with charging a 75kWh car battery at the 10
>> hour rate, cooking my dinner, boiling the kettle, and providing hot
>> water and heating my house electrically at the same rate that my
>> 24kW gas combi boiler currently does it. I'm sure it will be a
>> similar story in a great many other houses. Somebody needs to find
>> the back of an envelope and do a few sums. (If they know how).
>
> +1
>
> Exactly so.
>
> I also have a 24KW gas boiler and anything less is not enough to be
> warm on the coldest days. I have a 10KW shower and an cooker. Often
> all in use at the same time. No car to charge.
>
> The penny hasn't dropped yet with the majority yet.

To an extent, the sums are already being done. Cars won't be charging
at the maximum rate while domestic consumption is high in the evenings,
they'll be charged when consumption is low overall, at night.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 01/02/2022 12:08, Bob Latham wrote:
>
> In article <226a5334-30c9-42f2-a40c-dae441ee97den@googlegroups.com>,
> R. Mark Clayton <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The principle town of Yorkshire is of course York and it keeps
>> getting flooded more and more often - still nowt to do with global
>> warming.
>
> Correct. Flooding has always happened, if it happens more these days
> It's usually to do with river dredging not be done as it once was.

Where is your *EVIDENCE* for this claim?

>> similarly
>> Huge queues of lorries at the channel ports,
>
> Yes, that's called EU spite from our friends and partners across the
> channel.

It's the EU's job to look after it's own interests, not ours.

>> empty shelves at the supermarkets,
>
> Very little of that in my supermarkets in fact my wife has just had
> an email from Tesco about her delivery for this afternoon. All item
> in stock and no substitutions. Would you like me to post the email?
>
> There is quite a bit of that in the USA apparently, is that Brexit
> too?

There is a world wide component to shortages caused by the pandemic, but
there are also in the UK two more factors exacerbated by Brexshit, food
moving between the EU and the UK having to have more accompanying
paperwork, and the shortage of HGV drivers in the UK.

>> trawlers tied up in Hull,
>
> Really?
>
>> food prices soaring
>
> The price of everything is soaring, it's called inflation. Inflation
> is a disease caused by governments spending money they don't have.
> Usually high in Labour periods of gov for precisely that reason. This
> time due to conservatives wasting billions due to covid.

Yes, the chickens are perhaps coming home to roost now.

>> - still nowt to do with Brexit and so on
>
> Very, very little if anything. You're simply seeing what you want to
> see, not what's there.
>
>> Do yourself a favour Bill and stop living in denial.

But you don't really answer most of the points made.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 01/02/2022 14:17, charles wrote:
> In article <stbebb$v3s$1@dont-email.me>,
> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 01/02/2022 12:08, Bob Latham wrote:
>>> Very little of that in my supermarkets in fact my wife has just had
>>> an email from Tesco about her delivery for this afternoon. All item
>>> in stock and no substitutions. Would you like me to post the email?
>
>> Like most others, I am yet to see signifant numbers of empty shelves and
>> we are quite vulnerable here. It only needs the A82 or A9 to be blocked
>> by snow or a Road Traffic Accident and the shelves can be quickly emptied.
>
> Our local Waitrose ran out of Orkney Oatcakes last week

Disaster!!!

Seriously though, around here, it's not so much 'empty shelves' as
products being unavailable or withdrawn for no obvious reason. For many
weeks now, every time I make up my weekly online shop, I've had to work
around these absences, sometimes it's decent bread, sometimes ready
meals, sometimes pharma products, but there's nearly always something
that I can't get.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In article <stbgcp$chk$2@dont-email.me>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 01/02/2022 12:55, Bob Latham wrote:
> >
> > In article <pb9ivgtk6gt3mk8dql1n8fasa9nc229f5j@4ax.com>,
> > Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> Even the 60A fuse (i.e. 15kW at 250V) in the electricity supply to
> >> my house couldn't cope with charging a 75kWh car battery at the 10
> >> hour rate, cooking my dinner, boiling the kettle, and providing hot
> >> water and heating my house electrically at the same rate that my
> >> 24kW gas combi boiler currently does it. I'm sure it will be a
> >> similar story in a great many other houses. Somebody needs to find
> >> the back of an envelope and do a few sums. (If they know how).
> >
> > +1
> >
> > Exactly so.
> >
> > I also have a 24KW gas boiler and anything less is not enough to be
> > warm on the coldest days. I have a 10KW shower and an cooker. Often
> > all in use at the same time. No car to charge.
> >
> > The penny hasn't dropped yet with the majority yet.

> To an extent, the sums are already being done. Cars won't be charging
> at the maximum rate while domestic consumption is high in the evenings,
> they'll be charged when consumption is low overall, at night.

Certainly the app which controls my charger allows me to set charging times.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

"Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:59b3eaf361bob@sick-of-spam.invalid...
> In article <226a5334-30c9-42f2-a40c-dae441ee97den@googlegroups.com>,
> R. Mark Clayton <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The principle town of Yorkshire is of course York and it keeps
>> getting flooded more and more often - still nowt to do with global
>> warming.
>
> Correct. Flooding has always happened, if it happens more these days
> It's usually to do with river dredging not be done as it once was.

I suppose you could argue that the flooding in York is due to excessive rain
in the northern Dales which is due to climate change. I remember in 2011
there was very high flooding - I took a lot of dramatic photos including the
flood gate under the western pier of Lendal Bridge where the riverside path
normally goes under the bridge - but the flood gates were closed and the
water was not far short of overtopping them. The water was getting close to
the change in the stonework on the Lowther pub on the riverbank which seems
to be a standard flood mark for any decent Ouse flood. There's a disused
bonding warehouse by Skeldergate Bridge, with an old people's home alongside
which was cut off by the water so the fire brigade had set up walkways
suspended above the water so they could get supplies in to the residents.

Flooding is more of a problem now than it used to be, maybe *partly* because
of greater rainfall, but also because we are building in flood plains and
then complain when those new estates flood because the water runs into the
plains *as it is supposed to* and can't escape if the ground is saturated.
We have a stream at the bottom of our garden and the first check we did when
we were looking to buy the house was to see what the highest level of
flooding had ever been - answer: it broke its banks (just) but was contained
to an area of meadow by the stream, getting nowhere near the house or the
flower beds. The lawn and flower beds occasionally flood but that's from
rainwater that can't soak away, rather than from a watercourse that has got
too high.

"Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:stbgcp$chk$2@dont-email.me...
> On 01/02/2022 12:55, Bob Latham wrote:
>>
>> In article <pb9ivgtk6gt3mk8dql1n8fasa9nc229f5j@4ax.com>,
>> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> Even the 60A fuse (i.e. 15kW at 250V) in the electricity supply to
>>> my house couldn't cope with charging a 75kWh car battery at the 10
>>> hour rate, cooking my dinner, boiling the kettle, and providing hot
>>> water and heating my house electrically at the same rate that my
>>> 24kW gas combi boiler currently does it. I'm sure it will be a
>>> similar story in a great many other houses. Somebody needs to find
>>> the back of an envelope and do a few sums. (If they know how).
>>
>> +1
>>
>> Exactly so.
>>
>> I also have a 24KW gas boiler and anything less is not enough to be
>> warm on the coldest days. I have a 10KW shower and an cooker. Often
>> all in use at the same time. No car to charge.
>>
>> The penny hasn't dropped yet with the majority yet.
>
> To an extent, the sums are already being done. Cars won't be charging at
> the maximum rate while domestic consumption is high in the evenings,
> they'll be charged when consumption is low overall, at night.

And you hope and pray that the car will be sufficiently charged overnight to
be able to make the commute to work in the morning. "There was a much higher
electricity demand than usual last night so my car's only got 20 miles
range - I'll have to work from home today" - will that placate the boss?

On 01/02/2022 15:03, charles wrote:
>
> In article <stbgcp$chk$2@dont-email.me>,
> Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> To an extent, the sums are already being done. Cars won't be charging
>> at the maximum rate while domestic consumption is high in the evenings,
>> they'll be charged when consumption is low overall, at night.
>
> Certainly the app which controls my charger allows me to set charging times.

I think eventually there'll be a more intelligent and widespread 'smart'
system, where cars are used as a supply to even out spikes of peak
demands, such as commercial breaks in football matches, and then
recharged when demand is lower. This is the sort of system that pundits
keep describing, but, not having an electric car, I'm not personally
well up on how well such ideas are being implemented, if yet at all.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In article <j5sp3gFu872U1@mid.individual.net>,
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
> Tweed wrote:

> > We need that gas for the future.

> That's not the greenies plan, they want to just leave it there and
> forget all about it.

In a similar manner the government has planned for 1% growth in
electricity generation in the UK by 2025 and under 10% by 2030. Does
it want power cuts or more imports?

Hardly enough growth in power there to cope with the demand of
illegal immigrants, let alone heat pumps and electric cars. They're
living in a fantasy world, a false utopia.

Bob.

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> "Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:stbgcp$chk$2@dont-email.me...
>> On 01/02/2022 12:55, Bob Latham wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <pb9ivgtk6gt3mk8dql1n8fasa9nc229f5j@4ax.com>,
>>> Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Even the 60A fuse (i.e. 15kW at 250V) in the electricity supply to
>>>> my house couldn't cope with charging a 75kWh car battery at the 10
>>>> hour rate, cooking my dinner, boiling the kettle, and providing hot
>>>> water and heating my house electrically at the same rate that my
>>>> 24kW gas combi boiler currently does it. I'm sure it will be a
>>>> similar story in a great many other houses. Somebody needs to find
>>>> the back of an envelope and do a few sums. (If they know how).
>>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Exactly so.
>>>
>>> I also have a 24KW gas boiler and anything less is not enough to be
>>> warm on the coldest days. I have a 10KW shower and an cooker. Often
>>> all in use at the same time. No car to charge.
>>>
>>> The penny hasn't dropped yet with the majority yet.
>>
>> To an extent, the sums are already being done. Cars won't be charging at
>> the maximum rate while domestic consumption is high in the evenings,
>> they'll be charged when consumption is low overall, at night.
>
> And you hope and pray that the car will be sufficiently charged overnight to
> be able to make the commute to work in the morning. "There was a much higher
> electricity demand than usual last night so my car's only got 20 miles
> range - I'll have to work from home today" - will that placate the boss?
>
>

Never mind all that. Huge numbers of people don’t have the luxury of off
street parking to get charged up.

On 01/02/2022 15:14, NY wrote:
>
> "Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:stbgcp$chk$2@dont-email.me...
>>
>> On 01/02/2022 12:55, Bob Latham wrote:
>>
>> To an extent, the sums are already being done.  Cars won't be charging
>> at the maximum rate while domestic consumption is high in the
>> evenings, they'll be charged when consumption is low overall, at night.
>
> And you hope and pray that the car will be sufficiently charged
> overnight to be able to make the commute to work in the morning. "There
> was a much higher electricity demand than usual last night so my car's
> only got 20 miles range - I'll have to work from home today" - will that
> placate the boss?

With a few exceptions, I most of the perhaps twenty or so jobs I have
ever done, including summer holiday jobs, etc, have involved commuting
by foot or on public transport, I can only remember three that I had to
commute by car. One of the things that the pandemic has proved,
entirely incidentally, is that nowadays the technology exists to allow a
great many people to work from home, at least more often, sometimes on a
semi-permanent basis. Of course there are difficulties involved with
this. Some staff report being 'neglected' or 'forgotten about' and fear
being passed over for promotion if they're not seen at the office
enough, and overcoming such difficulties will require a change in
management style, and, if I know anything about British management at
all, that will be a sticking point.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> On 01/02/2022 15:14, NY wrote:
>>
>> "Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:stbgcp$chk$2@dont-email.me...
>>>
>>> On 01/02/2022 12:55, Bob Latham wrote:
>>>
>>> To an extent, the sums are already being done.  Cars won't be charging
>>> at the maximum rate while domestic consumption is high in the
>>> evenings, they'll be charged when consumption is low overall, at night.
>>
>> And you hope and pray that the car will be sufficiently charged
>> overnight to be able to make the commute to work in the morning. "There
>> was a much higher electricity demand than usual last night so my car's
>> only got 20 miles range - I'll have to work from home today" - will that
>> placate the boss?
>
> With a few exceptions, I most of the perhaps twenty or so jobs I have
> ever done, including summer holiday jobs, etc, have involved commuting
> by foot or on public transport, I can only remember three that I had to
> commute by car. One of the things that the pandemic has proved,
> entirely incidentally, is that nowadays the technology exists to allow a
> great many people to work from home, at least more often, sometimes on a
> semi-permanent basis. Of course there are difficulties involved with
> this. Some staff report being 'neglected' or 'forgotten about' and fear
> being passed over for promotion if they're not seen at the office
> enough, and overcoming such difficulties will require a change in
> management style, and, if I know anything about British management at
> all, that will be a sticking point.
>

Very job dependent though. Bit difficult if you are a surgeon, as my son
is. Add in shift work so you might be keeping irregular hours - car
charging becomes hard.

In article <statpo$dug$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
> > I'm in Yorkshire, been here all my life. Never yet met anyone who
> > thinks the earth is flat. Hell of a lot though who think that the
> > global warming hypothesis is at best over-stated and at worst a
> > massive scam.

> How many coal-fired power stations do you have to close to equate to the
> pollution from one Tongan volcanic eruption? I'm all for "every little
> helps" but you start with the big offenders rather than getting everyone
> to change their lightbulbs.

It depends on the emitting lifetime of the coal-fired stations. They may
emit for decades, not for days. And - unlike volcanic eruptions - are
something we can control.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html