On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

>You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would need to
>wear rubber soled boots in bed?

What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
when working on a computer? Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
else occupying the same bed :-)

On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
><brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would need to
>>wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>
>What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
>when working on a computer? Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>else occupying the same bed :-)

Is that equipotential bondage?

Thomas Prufer

On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
<prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
>><brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would need to
>>>wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>>
>>What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
>>when working on a computer? Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>>else occupying the same bed :-)
>
>Is that equipotential bondage?
>
Yes, a good earth is always important. You cannot be too careful.

Op 26/08/2023 om 09:41 schreef Scott:
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
>>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would need to
>>>> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>>>
>>> What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
>>> when working on a computer? Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>>> else occupying the same bed :-)
>>
>> Is that equipotential bondage?
>>
> Yes, a good earth is always important. You cannot be too careful.

https://www.aipro.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/oschman_antioxidants.pdf

THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE
Volume 13, Number 9, 2007, pp. 955–967
© Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
DOI: 10.1089/acm.2007.7048

Can Electrons Act as Antioxidants? A Review and Commentary

JAMES L. OSCHMAN, Ph.D.

ABSTRACT
A previous study demonstrated that connecting the human body to the
earth during sleep (earthing) normalizes the daily cortisol rhythm and
improves sleep. A variety of other benefits were reported, including
reductions in pain and inflammation. Subsequent studies have confirmed
these earlier findings and documented virtually immediate physiologic
and clinical effects of grounding or earthing the body. It is well
established, though not widely known, that the surface of the earth
possesses a limitless and continuously renewed supply of free
or mobile electrons as a consequence of a global atmospheric electron
circuit. Wearing shoes with insulating soles and/or sleeping in beds
that are isolated from the electrical ground plane of the earth have
disconnected most people from the earth’s electrical rhythms and free
electrons. The most reasonable hypothesis to explain
the beneficial effects of earthing is that a direct earth connection
enables both diurnal electrical rhythms and free electrons to flow from
the earth to the body. It is proposed that the earth’s diurnal
electrical rhythms set the biological clocks for hormones that regulate
sleep and activity. It is also suggested that free electrons from
the earth neutralize the positively charged free radicals that are the
hallmark of chronic inflammation. A relationship between cortisol and
inflammation was established in the pioneering work of H. Selye
published in the 1950s. Current biomedical research has led to an
inflammation hypothesis that is establishing chronic inflammation as the
culprit behind almost every modern chronic illness. The research
summarized here and in subsequent reports provides a basis for a number
of earthing technologies that restore and maintain natural electrical
contact between the human body and the earth throughout the day and
night in situations where going barefoot on the earth is impractical. It
is proposed that free or mobile electrons from the earth can resolve
chronic inflammation by serving as natural antioxidants.

--
Ottavio Caruso

On 26/08/2023 18:44, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Op 26/08/2023 om 09:41 schreef Scott:
>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
>> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott
>>> <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
>>>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would
>>>>> need to
>>>>> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>>>>
>>>> What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
>>>> when working on a computer?  Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>>>> else occupying the same bed :-)
>>>
>>> Is that equipotential bondage?
>>>
>> Yes, a good earth is always important.  You cannot be too careful.
>
>
> https://www.aipro.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/oschman_antioxidants.pdf
>
> THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE
> Volume 13, Number 9, 2007, pp. 955–967
> © Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
> DOI: 10.1089/acm.2007.7048
>
> Can Electrons Act as Antioxidants? A Review and Commentary
>
> JAMES L. OSCHMAN, Ph.D.
>
> ABSTRACT
> A previous study demonstrated that connecting the human body to the
> earth during sleep (earthing) normalizes the daily cortisol rhythm and
> improves sleep. A variety of other benefits were reported, including
> reductions in pain and inflammation. Subsequent studies have confirmed
> these earlier findings and documented virtually immediate physiologic
> and clinical effects of grounding or earthing the body. It is well
> established, though not widely known, that the surface of the earth
> possesses a limitless and continuously renewed supply of free
> or mobile electrons as a consequence of a global atmospheric electron
> circuit. Wearing shoes with insulating soles and/or sleeping in beds
> that are isolated from the electrical ground plane of the earth have
> disconnected most people from the earth’s electrical rhythms and free
> electrons. The most reasonable hypothesis to explain
> the beneficial effects of earthing is that a direct earth connection
> enables both diurnal electrical rhythms and free electrons to flow from
> the earth to the body. It is proposed that the earth’s diurnal
> electrical rhythms set the biological clocks for hormones that regulate
> sleep and activity. It is also suggested that free electrons from
> the earth neutralize the positively charged free radicals that are the
> hallmark of chronic inflammation. A relationship between cortisol and
> inflammation was established in the pioneering work of H. Selye
> published in the 1950s. Current biomedical research has led to an
> inflammation hypothesis that is establishing chronic inflammation as the
> culprit behind almost every modern chronic illness. The research
> summarized here and in subsequent reports provides a basis for a number
> of earthing technologies that restore and maintain natural electrical
> contact between the human body and the earth throughout the day and
> night in situations where going barefoot on the earth is impractical. It
> is proposed that free or mobile electrons from the earth can resolve
> chronic inflammation by serving as natural antioxidants.
>

That would be fine if the pin in a plug labelled "Earth" was connected
to earth. In the UK generally ts not...

On 26 Aug 2023 at 18:44:22 BST, "Ottavio Caruso"
<ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Op 26/08/2023 om 09:41 schreef Scott:
>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
>> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
>>>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would need to
>>>>> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>>>>
>>>> What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
>>>> when working on a computer? Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>>>> else occupying the same bed :-)
>>>
>>> Is that equipotential bondage?
>>>
>> Yes, a good earth is always important. You cannot be too careful.
>
>
> https://www.aipro.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/oschman_antioxidants.pdf
>
> THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE
> Volume 13, Number 9, 2007, pp. 955–967
> © Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
> DOI: 10.1089/acm.2007.7048
>
> Can Electrons Act as Antioxidants? A Review and Commentary
>
> JAMES L. OSCHMAN, Ph.D.
>
> ABSTRACT
> A previous study demonstrated that connecting the human body to the
> earth during sleep (earthing) normalizes the daily cortisol rhythm and
> improves sleep. A variety of other benefits were reported, including
> reductions in pain and inflammation. Subsequent studies have confirmed
> these earlier findings and documented virtually immediate physiologic
> and clinical effects of grounding or earthing the body. It is well
> established, though not widely known, that the surface of the earth
> possesses a limitless and continuously renewed supply of free
> or mobile electrons as a consequence of a global atmospheric electron
> circuit. Wearing shoes with insulating soles and/or sleeping in beds
> that are isolated from the electrical ground plane of the earth have
> disconnected most people from the earth’s electrical rhythms and free
> electrons. The most reasonable hypothesis to explain
> the beneficial effects of earthing is that a direct earth connection
> enables both diurnal electrical rhythms and free electrons to flow from
> the earth to the body. It is proposed that the earth’s diurnal
> electrical rhythms set the biological clocks for hormones that regulate
> sleep and activity. It is also suggested that free electrons from
> the earth neutralize the positively charged free radicals that are the
> hallmark of chronic inflammation. A relationship between cortisol and
> inflammation was established in the pioneering work of H. Selye
> published in the 1950s. Current biomedical research has led to an
> inflammation hypothesis that is establishing chronic inflammation as the
> culprit behind almost every modern chronic illness. The research
> summarized here and in subsequent reports provides a basis for a number
> of earthing technologies that restore and maintain natural electrical
> contact between the human body and the earth throughout the day and
> night in situations where going barefoot on the earth is impractical. It
> is proposed that free or mobile electrons from the earth can resolve
> chronic inflammation by serving as natural antioxidants.

I suppose you are aware that this is total nonsense?

--
Roger Hayter

On 27/08/2023 00:15, David Wade wrote:
> On 26/08/2023 18:44, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>> Op 26/08/2023 om 09:41 schreef Scott:
>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
>>> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott
>>>> <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
>>>>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would
>>>>>> need to
>>>>>> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>>>>>
>>>>> What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
>>>>> when working on a computer?  Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>>>>> else occupying the same bed :-)
>>>>
>>>> Is that equipotential bondage?
>>>>
>>> Yes, a good earth is always important.  You cannot be too careful.
>>
>>
>> https://www.aipro.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/oschman_antioxidants.pdf
>>
>> THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE
>> Volume 13, Number 9, 2007, pp. 955–967
>> © Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
>> DOI: 10.1089/acm.2007.7048
>>
>> Can Electrons Act as Antioxidants? A Review and Commentary
>>
>> JAMES L. OSCHMAN, Ph.D.
>>
>> ABSTRACT
>> A previous study demonstrated that connecting the human body to the
>> earth during sleep (earthing) normalizes the daily cortisol rhythm and
>> improves sleep. A variety of other benefits were reported, including
>> reductions in pain and inflammation. Subsequent studies have confirmed
>> these earlier findings and documented virtually immediate physiologic
>> and clinical effects of grounding or earthing the body. It is well
>> established, though not widely known, that the surface of the earth
>> possesses a limitless and continuously renewed supply of free
>> or mobile electrons as a consequence of a global atmospheric electron
>> circuit. Wearing shoes with insulating soles and/or sleeping in beds
>> that are isolated from the electrical ground plane of the earth have
>> disconnected most people from the earth’s electrical rhythms and free
>> electrons. The most reasonable hypothesis to explain
>> the beneficial effects of earthing is that a direct earth connection
>> enables both diurnal electrical rhythms and free electrons to flow
>> from the earth to the body. It is proposed that the earth’s diurnal
>> electrical rhythms set the biological clocks for hormones that
>> regulate sleep and activity. It is also suggested that free electrons
>> from
>> the earth neutralize the positively charged free radicals that are the
>> hallmark of chronic inflammation. A relationship between cortisol and
>> inflammation was established in the pioneering work of H. Selye
>> published in the 1950s. Current biomedical research has led to an
>> inflammation hypothesis that is establishing chronic inflammation as
>> the culprit behind almost every modern chronic illness. The research
>> summarized here and in subsequent reports provides a basis for a
>> number of earthing technologies that restore and maintain natural
>> electrical contact between the human body and the earth throughout the
>> day and night in situations where going barefoot on the earth is
>> impractical. It is proposed that free or mobile electrons from the
>> earth can resolve
>> chronic inflammation by serving as natural antioxidants.
>>
>
> That would be fine if the pin in a plug labelled "Earth" was connected
> to earth. In the UK generally ts not...
>
>
Oh it is. Eventually

--
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They
always run out of other people's money. It's quite a characteristic of them"

Margaret Thatcher

Op 26/08/2023 om 23:15 schreef David Wade:
..
>>
>
> That would be fine if the pin in a plug labelled "Earth" was connected
> to earth. In the UK generally ts not...
>
>

This is what I fear. I learnt this while preparing for the Amateur Radio
exam. What about the metal on the radiators?

--
Ottavio Caruso

Op 27/08/2023 om 00:49 schreef Roger Hayter:
> On 26 Aug 2023 at 18:44:22 BST, "Ottavio Caruso"
> <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Op 26/08/2023 om 09:41 schreef Scott:
>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
>>> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
>>>>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would need to
>>>>>> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>>>>>
>>>>> What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
>>>>> when working on a computer? Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>>>>> else occupying the same bed :-)
>>>>
>>>> Is that equipotential bondage?
>>>>
>>> Yes, a good earth is always important. You cannot be too careful.
>>
>>
>> https://www.aipro.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/oschman_antioxidants.pdf
>>
>> THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE
>> Volume 13, Number 9, 2007, pp. 955–967
>> © Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
>> DOI: 10.1089/acm.2007.7048
>>
>> Can Electrons Act as Antioxidants? A Review and Commentary
>>
>> JAMES L. OSCHMAN, Ph.D.
>>
>> ABSTRACT
>> A previous study demonstrated that connecting the human body to the
>> earth during sleep (earthing) normalizes the daily cortisol rhythm and
>> improves sleep. A variety of other benefits were reported, including
>> reductions in pain and inflammation. Subsequent studies have confirmed
>> these earlier findings and documented virtually immediate physiologic
>> and clinical effects of grounding or earthing the body. It is well
>> established, though not widely known, that the surface of the earth
>> possesses a limitless and continuously renewed supply of free
>> or mobile electrons as a consequence of a global atmospheric electron
>> circuit. Wearing shoes with insulating soles and/or sleeping in beds
>> that are isolated from the electrical ground plane of the earth have
>> disconnected most people from the earth’s electrical rhythms and free
>> electrons. The most reasonable hypothesis to explain
>> the beneficial effects of earthing is that a direct earth connection
>> enables both diurnal electrical rhythms and free electrons to flow from
>> the earth to the body. It is proposed that the earth’s diurnal
>> electrical rhythms set the biological clocks for hormones that regulate
>> sleep and activity. It is also suggested that free electrons from
>> the earth neutralize the positively charged free radicals that are the
>> hallmark of chronic inflammation. A relationship between cortisol and
>> inflammation was established in the pioneering work of H. Selye
>> published in the 1950s. Current biomedical research has led to an
>> inflammation hypothesis that is establishing chronic inflammation as the
>> culprit behind almost every modern chronic illness. The research
>> summarized here and in subsequent reports provides a basis for a number
>> of earthing technologies that restore and maintain natural electrical
>> contact between the human body and the earth throughout the day and
>> night in situations where going barefoot on the earth is impractical. It
>> is proposed that free or mobile electrons from the earth can resolve
>> chronic inflammation by serving as natural antioxidants.
>
> I suppose you are aware that this is total nonsense?
>

It's been published on a scientific magazine. Have you published
anything on a scientific magazine?
--
Ottavio Caruso

On 27/08/2023 10:16, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Op 26/08/2023 om 23:15 schreef David Wade:
> .
>>>
>>
>> That would be fine if the pin in a plug labelled "Earth" was connected
>> to earth. In the UK generally ts not...
>>
>>
>
> This is what I fear. I learnt this while preparing for the Amateur Radio
> exam. What about the metal on the radiators?
>

If the pipes are copper they are usually bonded to the earth pin in the
plug. If there are plastic pipes they may just be floating.

Dave

On 27/08/2023 10:18, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Op 27/08/2023 om 00:49 schreef Roger Hayter:
>> On 26 Aug 2023 at 18:44:22 BST, "Ottavio Caruso"
>> <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Op 26/08/2023 om 09:41 schreef Scott:
>>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
>>>> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott
>>>>> <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
>>>>>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would
>>>>>>> need to
>>>>>>> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
>>>>>> when working on a computer?  Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>>>>>> else occupying the same bed :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that equipotential bondage?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, a good earth is always important.  You cannot be too careful.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.aipro.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/oschman_antioxidants.pdf
>>>
>>> THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE
>>> Volume 13, Number 9, 2007, pp. 955–967
>>> © Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
>>> DOI: 10.1089/acm.2007.7048
>>>
>>> Can Electrons Act as Antioxidants? A Review and Commentary
>>>
>>> JAMES L. OSCHMAN, Ph.D.
>>>
>>> ABSTRACT
>>> A previous study demonstrated that connecting the human body to the
>>> earth during sleep (earthing) normalizes the daily cortisol rhythm and
>>> improves sleep. A variety of other benefits were reported, including
>>> reductions in pain and inflammation. Subsequent studies have confirmed
>>> these earlier findings and documented virtually immediate physiologic
>>> and clinical effects of grounding or earthing the body. It is well
>>> established, though not widely known, that the surface of the earth
>>> possesses a limitless and continuously renewed supply of free
>>> or mobile electrons as a consequence of a global atmospheric electron
>>> circuit. Wearing shoes with insulating soles and/or sleeping in beds
>>> that are isolated from the electrical ground plane of the earth have
>>> disconnected most people from the earth’s electrical rhythms and free
>>> electrons. The most reasonable hypothesis to explain
>>> the beneficial effects of earthing is that a direct earth connection
>>> enables both diurnal electrical rhythms and free electrons to flow from
>>> the earth to the body. It is proposed that the earth’s diurnal
>>> electrical rhythms set the biological clocks for hormones that regulate
>>> sleep and activity. It is also suggested that free electrons from
>>> the earth neutralize the positively charged free radicals that are the
>>> hallmark of chronic inflammation. A relationship between cortisol and
>>> inflammation was established in the pioneering work of H. Selye
>>> published in the 1950s. Current biomedical research has led to an
>>> inflammation hypothesis that is establishing chronic inflammation as the
>>> culprit behind almost every modern chronic illness. The research
>>> summarized here and in subsequent reports provides a basis for a number
>>> of earthing technologies that restore and maintain natural electrical
>>> contact between the human body and the earth throughout the day and
>>> night in situations where going barefoot on the earth is impractical. It
>>> is proposed that free or mobile electrons from the earth can resolve
>>> chronic inflammation by serving as natural antioxidants.
>>
>> I suppose you are aware that this is total nonsense?
>>
>
> It's been published on a scientific magazine. Have you published
> anything on a scientific magazine?

Its not scientific. For it to be scientific you would need to do double
blind testing. So you need to have real and fake earth mats which appear
identical, and distribute them to the people in the trial in such a way
that any one who interacts the the people in the trial don't know which
is which. If you don't do that then the placebo effect, which is well
documented, dominates.

As for radiators, plumbing or other exposed metal work in a house, its
either bonded to the mains earth, so generally noisy with RF, or totally
insulated, so floating. The rules that permit it to float were only
introduced recently so in many, I would say most, houses its still
bonded. The bonding ensures that all exposed metal is at the same
potential, which may not be "earth potential", so if you, for example
touch an earthed metal lamp and a radiator, no current can flow.

Oh and yes the earth pin does eventually connect to the real earth, but
the connection may be a long way away and the "goodness" of that
connection may be poor which is why radio amateurs often install
additional earths, but it must be done carefully.

Which alerts me to the fact that no where in the paper do they compare
different earth resistances (should actually be impedances) or check the
actual earth pin potential to check the effect.

its total bunkum....

Dave

On 8/27/2023 5:18 AM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Op 27/08/2023 om 00:49 schreef Roger Hayter:
>> On 26 Aug 2023 at 18:44:22 BST, "Ottavio Caruso"
>> <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Op 26/08/2023 om 09:41 schreef Scott:
>>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
>>>> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
>>>>>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would need to
>>>>>>> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
>>>>>> when working on a computer?  Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>>>>>> else occupying the same bed :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that equipotential bondage?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, a good earth is always important.  You cannot be too careful.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.aipro.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/oschman_antioxidants.pdf
>>>
>>> THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE
>>> Volume 13, Number 9, 2007, pp. 955–967
>>> © Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
>>> DOI: 10.1089/acm.2007.7048
>>>
>>> Can Electrons Act as Antioxidants? A Review and Commentary
>>>
>>> JAMES L. OSCHMAN, Ph.D.
>>>
>>> ABSTRACT
>>> ... natural antioxidants.
>>
>> I suppose you are aware that this is total nonsense?
>>
>
> It's been published on a scientific magazine. Have you published anything on a scientific magazine?

THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE <=== Yikes.

https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/1652/does-earthing-reduce-oxidative-stress-and-inflammation

"This study is from the J Altern Complement Med, which isn't a reliable source.
The [Wikipedia page] explains: Quackwatch has included the journal on its list of
"nonrecommended periodicals", characterizing it as
"fundamentally flawed".
"

Someone explains here, how what the journal does, is not science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Alternative_and_Complementary_Medicine

Paul

On 27/08/2023 11:36, David Wade wrote:
> On 27/08/2023 10:18, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>> Op 27/08/2023 om 00:49 schreef Roger Hayter:
>>> On 26 Aug 2023 at 18:44:22 BST, "Ottavio Caruso"
>>> <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Op 26/08/2023 om 09:41 schreef Scott:
>>>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
>>>>> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott
>>>>>> <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
>>>>>>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you
>>>>>>>> would need to
>>>>>>>> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your
>>>>>>> wrist
>>>>>>> when working on a computer?  Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>>>>>>> else occupying the same bed :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is that equipotential bondage?
>>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, a good earth is always important.  You cannot be too careful.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.aipro.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/oschman_antioxidants.pdf
>>>>
>>>> THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE
>>>> Volume 13, Number 9, 2007, pp. 955–967
>>>> © Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
>>>> DOI: 10.1089/acm.2007.7048
>>>>
>>>> Can Electrons Act as Antioxidants? A Review and Commentary
>>>>
>>>> JAMES L. OSCHMAN, Ph.D.
>>>>
>>>> ABSTRACT
>>>> A previous study demonstrated that connecting the human body to the
>>>> earth during sleep (earthing) normalizes the daily cortisol rhythm and
>>>> improves sleep. A variety of other benefits were reported, including
>>>> reductions in pain and inflammation. Subsequent studies have confirmed
>>>> these earlier findings and documented virtually immediate physiologic
>>>> and clinical effects of grounding or earthing the body. It is well
>>>> established, though not widely known, that the surface of the earth
>>>> possesses a limitless and continuously renewed supply of free
>>>> or mobile electrons as a consequence of a global atmospheric electron
>>>> circuit. Wearing shoes with insulating soles and/or sleeping in beds
>>>> that are isolated from the electrical ground plane of the earth have
>>>> disconnected most people from the earth’s electrical rhythms and free
>>>> electrons. The most reasonable hypothesis to explain
>>>> the beneficial effects of earthing is that a direct earth connection
>>>> enables both diurnal electrical rhythms and free electrons to flow from
>>>> the earth to the body. It is proposed that the earth’s diurnal
>>>> electrical rhythms set the biological clocks for hormones that regulate
>>>> sleep and activity. It is also suggested that free electrons from
>>>> the earth neutralize the positively charged free radicals that are the
>>>> hallmark of chronic inflammation. A relationship between cortisol and
>>>> inflammation was established in the pioneering work of H. Selye
>>>> published in the 1950s. Current biomedical research has led to an
>>>> inflammation hypothesis that is establishing chronic inflammation as
>>>> the
>>>> culprit behind almost every modern chronic illness. The research
>>>> summarized here and in subsequent reports provides a basis for a number
>>>> of earthing technologies that restore and maintain natural electrical
>>>> contact between the human body and the earth throughout the day and
>>>> night in situations where going barefoot on the earth is
>>>> impractical. It
>>>> is proposed that free or mobile electrons from the earth can resolve
>>>> chronic inflammation by serving as natural antioxidants.
>>>
>>> I suppose you are aware that this is total nonsense?
>>>
>>
>> It's been published on a scientific magazine. Have you published
>> anything on a scientific magazine?
>
> Its not scientific. For it to be scientific you would need to do double
> blind testing. So you need to have real and fake earth mats which appear
> identical, and distribute them to the people in the trial in such a way
> that any one who interacts the the people in the trial don't know which
> is which. If you don't do that then the placebo effect, which is well
> documented, dominates.

I suppose at this point its interesting to note that if you had accepted
the conclusions in the paper without question, bought and installed one,
then it is likely you would have felt it was beneficial because of the
placebo effect.

>
> As for radiators, plumbing or other exposed metal work in a house, its
> either bonded to the mains earth, so generally noisy with RF, or totally
> insulated, so floating. The rules that permit it to float were only
> introduced recently so in many, I would say most, houses its still
> bonded. The bonding ensures that all exposed metal is at the same
> potential, which may not be "earth potential", so if you, for example
> touch an earthed metal lamp and a radiator, no current can flow.
>
> Oh and yes the earth pin does eventually connect to the real earth, but
> the connection may be a long way away and the "goodness" of that
> connection may be poor which is why radio amateurs often install
> additional earths, but it must be done carefully.
>
> Which alerts me to the fact that no where in the paper do they compare
> different earth resistances (should actually be impedances) or check the
> actual earth pin potential to check the effect.
>
> its total bunkum....
>
> Dave
>
>

Dave

On 27/08/2023 11:36, David Wade wrote:

>> It's been published on a scientific magazine. Have you published
>> anything on a scientific magazine?
>

THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE

That is not a scientific magazine. It's new age bunk

> its total bunkum....

Precisely do. Only remoaners are naive enough to believe shite like that.

--
“Progress is precisely that which rules and regulations did not foresee,”

– Ludwig von Mises

On 27 Aug 2023 at 10:18:07 BST, "Ottavio Caruso"
<ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Op 27/08/2023 om 00:49 schreef Roger Hayter:
>> On 26 Aug 2023 at 18:44:22 BST, "Ottavio Caruso"
>> <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Op 26/08/2023 om 09:41 schreef Scott:
>>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
>>>> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
>>>>>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would need to
>>>>>>> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
>>>>>> when working on a computer? Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>>>>>> else occupying the same bed :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that equipotential bondage?
>>>>>
>>>> Yes, a good earth is always important. You cannot be too careful.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.aipro.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/oschman_antioxidants.pdf
>>>
>>> THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE
>>> Volume 13, Number 9, 2007, pp. 955–967
>>> © Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
>>> DOI: 10.1089/acm.2007.7048
>>>
>>> Can Electrons Act as Antioxidants? A Review and Commentary
>>>
>>> JAMES L. OSCHMAN, Ph.D.
>>>
>>> ABSTRACT
>>> A previous study demonstrated that connecting the human body to the
>>> earth during sleep (earthing) normalizes the daily cortisol rhythm and
>>> improves sleep. A variety of other benefits were reported, including
>>> reductions in pain and inflammation. Subsequent studies have confirmed
>>> these earlier findings and documented virtually immediate physiologic
>>> and clinical effects of grounding or earthing the body. It is well
>>> established, though not widely known, that the surface of the earth
>>> possesses a limitless and continuously renewed supply of free
>>> or mobile electrons as a consequence of a global atmospheric electron
>>> circuit. Wearing shoes with insulating soles and/or sleeping in beds
>>> that are isolated from the electrical ground plane of the earth have
>>> disconnected most people from the earth’s electrical rhythms and free
>>> electrons. The most reasonable hypothesis to explain
>>> the beneficial effects of earthing is that a direct earth connection
>>> enables both diurnal electrical rhythms and free electrons to flow from
>>> the earth to the body. It is proposed that the earth’s diurnal
>>> electrical rhythms set the biological clocks for hormones that regulate
>>> sleep and activity. It is also suggested that free electrons from
>>> the earth neutralize the positively charged free radicals that are the
>>> hallmark of chronic inflammation. A relationship between cortisol and
>>> inflammation was established in the pioneering work of H. Selye
>>> published in the 1950s. Current biomedical research has led to an
>>> inflammation hypothesis that is establishing chronic inflammation as the
>>> culprit behind almost every modern chronic illness. The research
>>> summarized here and in subsequent reports provides a basis for a number
>>> of earthing technologies that restore and maintain natural electrical
>>> contact between the human body and the earth throughout the day and
>>> night in situations where going barefoot on the earth is impractical. It
>>> is proposed that free or mobile electrons from the earth can resolve
>>> chronic inflammation by serving as natural antioxidants.
>>
>> I suppose you are aware that this is total nonsense?
>>
>
> It's been published on a scientific magazine. Have you published
> anything on a scientific magazine?

There are plenty of scientific magazines which will publish anything for which
you pay the publication fee. And if their peer review (if any) was by people
who do Reiki candles and homeopathy I think I would believe more Sun
editorials.

--
Roger Hayter

Perhaps he using nylon sheets ?.

Andrew

On 24/08/2023 11:03, Brian Gaff wrote:
> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would need to
> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
> Brian
>

Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
> It's been published on a scientific magazine. Have you published
> anything on a scientific magazine?

I have (we call them 'journals'). While medicine isn't my field, this kind
of study needs a comprehensive methodology to rule out all other causes,
which is lacking in this paper.

For example, there are some pictures of feet having different temperature
before and after. But that needs a control to account for whether the
subject has recently stood up or sat down, because blood flow varies with
blood pressure - if the patient has been standing for a while, blood tends
to collect towards their feet, which may vary the temperature seen on a
thermal camera.

If you say 'we observe X' and 'X is caused by Y' you need some evidence of
causation, not just that Y was the first hypothesis you thought of.

Also, I note the declaration:

"Preparation of the manuscript was aided in part by funding from Barefoot
Sales Corporation, and the author acknowledges a financial interest in
this company."

and I note:

"EarthFx the parent company of Barefoot Sales Corp, DBA Earthing.com holds
the following registered patents.

Patent 6683779 - Personal Body Grounding System
Patent 7212392 - Personal Body Grounding System Instrumentation and Process
Patent 7724491 - Method Of Treating Inflammation and Autoimmune Diseases"

https://www.earthing.com/pages/terms-of-service

and guess what, Earthing.com is selling mattress earthing products.

So the paper is effectively an advert for the author's company.

Theo

On 27/08/2023 22:25, Theo wrote:
> So the paper is effectively an advert for the author's company.

Nearly all 'scientific papers' are, these days. The amount of ecobollox
funded directly and indirectly by renewable energy companies is immense.
--
“The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to
fill the world with fools.”

Herbert Spencer

On Sunday, 27 August 2023 at 11:41:47 UTC+1, Paul wrote:
> On 8/27/2023 5:18 AM, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> > Op 27/08/2023 om 00:49 schreef Roger Hayter:
> >> On 26 Aug 2023 at 18:44:22 BST, "Ottavio Caruso"
> >> <ottavio2006...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Op 26/08/2023 om 09:41 schreef Scott:
> >>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
> >>>> <prufer...@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co..uk>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
> >>>>>> <brian...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would need to
> >>>>>>> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
> >>>>>> when working on a computer? Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
> >>>>>> else occupying the same bed :-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Is that equipotential bondage?
> >>>>>
> >>>> Yes, a good earth is always important. You cannot be too careful.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> https://www.aipro.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/oschman_antioxidants.pdf
> >>>
> >>> THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE
> >>> Volume 13, Number 9, 2007, pp. 955–967
> >>> © Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
> >>> DOI: 10.1089/acm.2007.7048
> >>>
> >>> Can Electrons Act as Antioxidants? A Review and Commentary
> >>>
> >>> JAMES L. OSCHMAN, Ph.D.
> >>>
> >>> ABSTRACT
> >>> ... natural antioxidants.
> >>
> >> I suppose you are aware that this is total nonsense?
> >>
> >
> > It's been published on a scientific magazine. Have you published anything on a scientific magazine?
> THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE <=== Yikes.
>
> https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/1652/does-earthing-reduce-oxidative-stress-and-inflammation
>
> "This study is from the J Altern Complement Med, which isn't a reliable source.
> The [Wikipedia page] explains: Quackwatch has included the journal on its list of
> "nonrecommended periodicals", characterizing it as
> "fundamentally flawed".
> "
>
> Someone explains here, how what the journal does, is not science.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journal_of_Alternative_and_Complementary_Medicine
>
> Paul

Quackwatch needs a site called quackwatch-watch. It's bunk.

On Sun, 27 Aug 2023 11:13:20 +0100, David Wade <g4ugm@dave.invalid>
wrote:

>On 27/08/2023 10:16, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
>> Op 26/08/2023 om 23:15 schreef David Wade:
>>>
>>> That would be fine if the pin in a plug labelled "Earth" was connected
>>> to earth. In the UK generally ts not...
>>
>> This is what I fear. I learnt this while preparing for the Amateur Radio
>> exam. What about the metal on the radiators?
>
>If the pipes are copper they are usually bonded to the earth pin in the
>plug. If there are plastic pipes they may just be floating.

I heard the following that may be apocryphal but sadly I suspect is
not: Block of flats. Electrical earth bonded to the water supply in
each flat. Someone in one of the flats replaced part of the water main
with plastic pipe. A fault developed in one flat resulting in the
water pipe in the flat above becoming live and the bath becoming live.

On 27/08/2023 00:15, David Wade wrote:

> That would be fine if the pin in a plug labelled "Earth" was connected
> to earth. In the UK generally ts not...

What leads you to that conclusion?

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 27/08/2023 10:18, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
> Op 27/08/2023 om 00:49 schreef Roger Hayter:

>>
>> I suppose you are aware that this is total nonsense?
>>
>
> It's been published on a scientific magazine. Have you published
> anything on a scientific magazine?

Cold fusion and the recent (bogus) LK99 "room temperature" super
conductive material were also published in a "scientific magazines".

The first question would was this just a preview publication or was it
in a actual peer reviewed journal?

If the latter what publications have appeared since that cite that paper?

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 18:44:22 +0100, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Op 26/08/2023 om 09:41 schreef Scott:
>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 11:33:15 +0200, Thomas Prufer
>> <prufer.public@mnet-online.de.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, 26 Aug 2023 10:29:03 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 24 Aug 2023 11:03:09 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
>>>> <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> You need just a bleeding resistor to stop sparks. Maybe you would need to
>>>>> wear rubber soled boots in bed?
>>>>
>>>> What about one of these earthing straps that you attach to your wrist
>>>> when working on a computer? Also, equipotential bonding with anyone
>>>> else occupying the same bed :-)
>>>
>>> Is that equipotential bondage?
>>>
>> Yes, a good earth is always important. You cannot be too careful.
>
>
> https://www.aipro.info/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/oschman_antioxidants.pdf
>
> THE JOURNAL OF ALTERNATIVE AND COMPLEMENTARY MEDICINE
> Volume 13, Number 9, 2007, pp. 955–967
> © Mary Ann Liebert, Inc.
> DOI: 10.1089/acm.2007.7048
>
> Can Electrons Act as Antioxidants? A Review and Commentary
>
> JAMES L. OSCHMAN, Ph.D.
>
> ABSTRACT
> A previous study demonstrated that connecting the human body to the
> earth during sleep (earthing) normalizes the daily cortisol rhythm and
> improves sleep. A variety of other benefits were reported, including
> reductions in pain and inflammation. Subsequent studies have confirmed
> these earlier findings and documented virtually immediate physiologic
> and clinical effects of grounding or earthing the body. It is well
> established, though not widely known, that the surface of the earth
> possesses a limitless and continuously renewed supply of free
> or mobile electrons as a consequence of a global atmospheric electron
> circuit. Wearing shoes with insulating soles and/or sleeping in beds
> that are isolated from the electrical ground plane of the earth have
> disconnected most people from the earth’s electrical rhythms and free
> electrons. The most reasonable hypothesis to explain
> the beneficial effects of earthing is that a direct earth connection
> enables both diurnal electrical rhythms and free electrons to flow from
> the earth to the body. It is proposed that the earth’s diurnal
> electrical rhythms set the biological clocks for hormones that regulate
> sleep and activity. It is also suggested that free electrons from
> the earth neutralize the positively charged free radicals that are the
> hallmark of chronic inflammation. A relationship between cortisol and
> inflammation was established in the pioneering work of H. Selye
> published in the 1950s. Current biomedical research has led to an
> inflammation hypothesis that is establishing chronic inflammation as the
> culprit behind almost every modern chronic illness. The research
> summarized here and in subsequent reports provides a basis for a number
> of earthing technologies that restore and maintain natural electrical
> contact between the human body and the earth throughout the day and
> night in situations where going barefoot on the earth is impractical. It
> is proposed that free or mobile electrons from the earth can resolve
> chronic inflammation by serving as natural antioxidants.

FFS just sleep outside. Which is probably what's really good for you, the fresh air.