Pip Luscher wrote:

> First time ever that closing my visor felt cooler.

When Steve, Mark and I rode in Southern Spain and Morroco a few years
ago closing all the jacket vents and visor made things a lot more
comfortable.

Felt like someone was blowing a hairdryer in your face for most of the
day with the visor open.

Saw 48 deg C on a petrol station thermometer near Seville. It was
cooler in the Sahara - but not by much.

--
Simon

El Tue, 19 Jul 2022 07:01:25 +0000, sweller escribió:

> Pip Luscher wrote:
>
>> First time ever that closing my visor felt cooler.
>
> When Steve, Mark and I rode in Southern Spain and Morroco a few years
> ago closing all the jacket vents and visor made things a lot more
> comfortable.
>
> Felt like someone was blowing a hairdryer in your face for most of the
> day with the visor open.

I have that every time I go out the front door from May to October.
Horrible.

Strangely enough, everybody is wibbling about heat wave now and the temp
here hasn't got to 40ºC yet. We're having a cool summer so far. Currently
about 36ºC.

I feel sorry for the Brits, as most of them don't have AC in their
houses. We'd die without AC.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On 19/07/2022 10:43, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El Tue, 19 Jul 2022 07:01:25 +0000, sweller escribió:
>
>> Pip Luscher wrote:
>>
>>> First time ever that closing my visor felt cooler.
>>
>> When Steve, Mark and I rode in Southern Spain and Morroco a few years
>> ago closing all the jacket vents and visor made things a lot more
>> comfortable.
>>
>> Felt like someone was blowing a hairdryer in your face for most of the
>> day with the visor open.
>
> I have that every time I go out the front door from May to October.
> Horrible.

So, don't live there then :-)

>
> Strangely enough, everybody is wibbling about heat wave now and the temp
> here hasn't got to 40ºC yet. We're having a cool summer so far. Currently
> about 36ºC.
>
> I feel sorry for the Brits, as most of them don't have AC in their
> houses. We'd die without AC.
>
And we will all die because if it.
Bit of a cycle isn't it?
It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
on the AC :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
> It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
> on the AC

I see that it is claimed more electricity is used for cooling worldwide
that is used for heating.

The need coincides when solar PV panels are producing an excess.

On 19/07/2022 11:58, ajh wrote:
> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
>> It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
>> on the AC
>
> I see that it is claimed more electricity is used for cooling worldwide
> that is used for heating.
>
> The need coincides when solar PV panels are producing an excess.

There are some natural methods that can be employed, especially around
architecture. Of which I am sure Spain has a shed load of experience :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 11:58:55 AM UTC+1, ajh wrote:
> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
> > It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
> > on the AC
> I see that it is claimed more electricity is used for cooling worldwide
> that is used for heating.
>
> The need coincides when solar PV panels are producing an excess.

Except that solar panel efficiency drops off in high temperatures.

--
WUN

On 19/07/2022 12:45, WUN wrote:
> Except that solar panel efficiency drops off in high temperatures.

You mean the conversion from sunlight to electricity drops, yes so I'm
told and I suspect I can see a bit of a depression but still producing a
lot more than on an average sunny day and my lounge is a cool 25 with
outside having just passed 38 according to the local weather station.

On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>
> On 19/07/2022 10:43, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>> I feel sorry for the Brits, as most of them don't have AC in their
>> houses. We'd die without AC.
>>
> And we will all die because if it.
> Bit of a cycle isn't it?
> It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
> on the AC :-)

Yes, its surprising how many people don't see the 'irony' in this.
I had a similar (but opposite) discussion in the winter about people
using patio heaters so they could go and sit outside.
Apparently it is ok if you have solar panels fitted :-)
'Net zero' is only the starting point FFS...

Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

El Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:19:56 +0100, YTC#1 escribió:

> On 19/07/2022 11:58, ajh wrote:
>> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
>>> It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
>>> on the AC
>>
>> I see that it is claimed more electricity is used for cooling worldwide
>> that is used for heating.
>>
>> The need coincides when solar PV panels are producing an excess.
>
> There are some natural methods that can be employed, especially around
> architecture. Of which I am sure Spain has a shed load of experience :-)

My outside walls (500mm thick) are white. The huge patio doors may not
have been a good idea (although they face SE, so not a huge problem). All
the persianas are currently down (until november).

All doors and windows shut and the 30 solar panels are keeping us cool.

The solar panels on the other house are keeping the guests cool and the
pool clean.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

El Tue, 19 Jul 2022 04:45:08 -0700, WUN escribió:

> On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 11:58:55 AM UTC+1, ajh wrote:
>> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
>> > It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err,
>> > turn on the AC
>> I see that it is claimed more electricity is used for cooling worldwide
>> that is used for heating.
>>
>> The need coincides when solar PV panels are producing an excess.
>
> Except that solar panel efficiency drops off in high temperatures.

It does. And as it hasn't rained here in ages, they are also filthy.
Still managing 4kW with the batteries almost charged (the mppts reduce
what they take to preserve the batteries). If I were to switch a few more
things on we would see a tad more. I just put the AC on in this office
and it's gone up to 4.7kW.

In the early spring, when it's chilly, the AC keeps the house lovely and
warm.

http://185.219.27.69:1961/vrm/placas.png

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es/elpatio

On Tuesday, 19 July 2022 at 13:54:21 UTC+1, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 19/07/2022 10:43, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> >> I feel sorry for the Brits, as most of them don't have AC in their
> >> houses. We'd die without AC.
> >>
> > And we will all die because if it.
> > Bit of a cycle isn't it?
> > It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
> > on the AC :-)
> Yes, its surprising how many people don't see the 'irony' in this.
> I had a similar (but opposite) discussion in the winter about people
> using patio heaters so they could go and sit outside.
> Apparently it is ok if you have solar panels fitted :-)
> 'Net zero' is only the starting point FFS...

Nuclear, Hydro, Solar, Wind = guilt free AC

I have a front room built in contact with bedrock, windows facing South so never gets oppressively warm it seems.
Ever been in the Troglodyte dwellings near Saumur? jolly nice in mid summer.

On 19/07/2022 13:56, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:19:56 +0100, YTC#1 escribió:
>
>> On 19/07/2022 11:58, ajh wrote:
>>> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>> It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
>>>> on the AC
>>>
>>> I see that it is claimed more electricity is used for cooling worldwide
>>> that is used for heating.
>>>
>>> The need coincides when solar PV panels are producing an excess.
>>
>> There are some natural methods that can be employed, especially around
>> architecture. Of which I am sure Spain has a shed load of experience :-)
>
>
> My outside walls (500mm thick) are white. The huge patio doors may not
> have been a good idea (although they face SE, so not a huge problem). All
> the persianas are currently down (until november).
>
> All doors and windows shut and the 30 solar panels are keeping us cool.
>
> The solar panels on the other house are keeping the guests cool and the
> pool clean.
>

How I envy just about all that. Having a building that is suitablly
placed for panels, the sun and the pool :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 19/07/2022 13:54, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 19/07/2022 10:43, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>> I feel sorry for the Brits, as most of them don't have AC in their
>>> houses. We'd die without AC.
>>>
>> And we will all die because if it.
>> Bit of a cycle isn't it?
>> It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
>> on the AC :-)
>
> Yes, its surprising how many people don't see the 'irony' in this.
> I had a similar (but opposite) discussion in the winter about people
> using patio heaters so they could go and sit outside.

I remember in more innocent times (last century) how brilliant I thought
patio heaters where. Drinking *outside* in Novemember !

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 19/07/2022 16:32, Hog wrote:
> On Tuesday, 19 July 2022 at 13:54:21 UTC+1, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
>> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19/07/2022 10:43, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>> I feel sorry for the Brits, as most of them don't have AC in their
>>>> houses. We'd die without AC.
>>>>
>>> And we will all die because if it.
>>> Bit of a cycle isn't it?
>>> It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
>>> on the AC :-)
>> Yes, its surprising how many people don't see the 'irony' in this.
>> I had a similar (but opposite) discussion in the winter about people
>> using patio heaters so they could go and sit outside.
>> Apparently it is ok if you have solar panels fitted :-)
>> 'Net zero' is only the starting point FFS...
>
> Nuclear, Hydro, Solar, Wind = guilt free AC

I know we have done it to death here, but I would still prefer to see
nuclear drop off the equation (although I have come around to seeing
limited use in the mean time).

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 19/07/2022 20:47, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>
> On 19/07/2022 13:54, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
>> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19/07/2022 10:43, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>> I feel sorry for the Brits, as most of them don't have AC in their
>>>> houses. We'd die without AC.
>>>>
>>> And we will all die because if it.
>>> Bit of a cycle isn't it?
>>> It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err,
>>> turn on the AC :-)
>>
>> Yes, its surprising how many people don't see the 'irony' in this.
>> I had a similar (but opposite) discussion in the winter about people
>> using patio heaters so they could go and sit outside.
>
> I remember in more innocent times (last century) how brilliant I thought
> patio heaters where. Drinking *outside* in Novemember !
>
>
Yes, 'cool' in both senses of the word.
Shame it couldn't last
Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 19/07/2022 20:48, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>
> On 19/07/2022 16:32, Hog wrote:
>> On Tuesday, 19 July 2022 at 13:54:21 UTC+1, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
>>> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 19/07/2022 10:43, Paul Carmichael wrote:
>>>>> I feel sorry for the Brits, as most of them don't have AC in their
>>>>> houses. We'd die without AC.
>>>>>
>>>> And we will all die because if it.
>>>> Bit of a cycle isn't it?
>>>> It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
>>>> on the AC :-)
>>> Yes, its surprising how many people don't see the 'irony' in this.
>>> I had a similar (but opposite) discussion in the winter about people
>>> using patio heaters so they could go and sit outside.
>>> Apparently it is ok if you have solar panels fitted :-)
>>> 'Net zero' is only the starting point FFS...
>>
>> Nuclear, Hydro, Solar, Wind = guilt free AC
>
> I know we have done it to death here, but I would still prefer to see
> nuclear drop off the equation (although I have come around to seeing
> limited use in the mean time).

+1
Anything that leaves something to be cleaned up over a longer period of
time than civilisation has existed can never be truly 'green' but it may
help the planet get past the global warming doomsday in the meantime...
Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On Wednesday, 20 July 2022 at 14:26:45 UTC+1, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
> On 19/07/2022 20:48, YTC#1 wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 19/07/2022 16:32, Hog wrote:
> >> On Tuesday, 19 July 2022 at 13:54:21 UTC+1, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
> >>> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 19/07/2022 10:43, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> >>>>> I feel sorry for the Brits, as most of them don't have AC in their
> >>>>> houses. We'd die without AC.
> >>>>>
> >>>> And we will all die because if it.
> >>>> Bit of a cycle isn't it?
> >>>> It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
> >>>> on the AC :-)
> >>> Yes, its surprising how many people don't see the 'irony' in this.
> >>> I had a similar (but opposite) discussion in the winter about people
> >>> using patio heaters so they could go and sit outside.
> >>> Apparently it is ok if you have solar panels fitted :-)
> >>> 'Net zero' is only the starting point FFS...
> >>
> >> Nuclear, Hydro, Solar, Wind = guilt free AC
> >
> > I know we have done it to death here, but I would still prefer to see
> > nuclear drop off the equation (although I have come around to seeing
> > limited use in the mean time).
> +1
> Anything that leaves something to be cleaned up over a longer period of
> time than civilisation has existed can never be truly 'green' but it may
> help the planet get past the global warming doomsday in the meantime...

So definitely no plastic.

"We" still permit schooling of children by various deviant cults, I'd hoped to see it gone in my lifetime (30 years ago it looked possible) so one can forgive the odd bit of anti science & tech.

On Wednesday, 20 July 2022 at 14:26:45 UTC+1, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:

> Anything that leaves something to be cleaned up over a longer period of
> time than civilisation has existed can never be truly 'green' but it may
> help the planet get past the global warming doomsday in the meantime...

The marketing of the 'green' message is all wrong. Extinction rebellion have
it right; the 'planet' will be fine, it's the future of mankind that's under threat.

Or, at least, the future of a population of 7Bn+ of us; I'm pretty sure that a large
number will continue into the future in one form or another. Not so sure we
move to the socialist future as seen in the Culture novels. Suspect 1984
/ Brave New World is closer to the spirit of the future society, with a dash
of handmaid's tale no doubt.

On 20/07/2022 14:59, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Wednesday, 20 July 2022 at 14:26:45 UTC+1, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
>
>> Anything that leaves something to be cleaned up over a longer period of
>> time than civilisation has existed can never be truly 'green' but it may
>> help the planet get past the global warming doomsday in the meantime...
>
> The marketing of the 'green' message is all wrong. Extinction rebellion have
> it right; the 'planet' will be fine, it's the future of mankind that's under threat.
>
> Or, at least, the future of a population of 7Bn+ of us; I'm pretty sure that a large
> number will continue into the future in one form or another. Not so sure we
> move to the socialist future as seen in the Culture novels. Suspect 1984
> / Brave New World is closer to the spirit of the future society, with a dash
> of handmaid's tale no doubt.

Yup, to all that :-(
Chris

--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 7/19/2022 5:56 AM, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El Tue, 19 Jul 2022 12:19:56 +0100, YTC#1 escribió:
>
>> On 19/07/2022 11:58, ajh wrote:
>>> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>> It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
>>>> on the AC
>>>
>>> I see that it is claimed more electricity is used for cooling worldwide
>>> that is used for heating.
>>>
>>> The need coincides when solar PV panels are producing an excess.
>>
>> There are some natural methods that can be employed, especially around
>> architecture. Of which I am sure Spain has a shed load of experience :-)
>
>
> My outside walls (500mm thick) are white. The huge patio doors may not
> have been a good idea (although they face SE, so not a huge problem). All
> the persianas are currently down (until november).
>
> All doors and windows shut and the 30 solar panels are keeping us cool.
>
> The solar panels on the other house are keeping the guests cool and the
> pool clean.
>
I live on a canyon. The previous owners of my house were an architect
and an environmental physicist. When they did their remodel, they added
a loft and closed in a lower level room, making it 3-storey. They also
made the walls thicker and denser, and in the office added a Trombe
wall[1]. Now, when it gets hot, I just open the upper and lower windows.
Hot air rises, so it's almost never uncomfortable. I added solar cells,
so my electric bill zeros out over the year. When I get an electric
vehicle, I'll just add a few cells. It literally feels good going green.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trombe_wall

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On Tue, 19 Jul 2022 04:45:08 -0700 (PDT), WUN <nigel.eaton@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 11:58:55 AM UTC+1, ajh wrote:
>> On 19/07/2022 11:06, YTC#1 wrote:
>> > It's hot, due to climate warming, caused (in part) by AC. so err, turn
>> > on the AC
>> I see that it is claimed more electricity is used for cooling worldwide
>> that is used for heating.
>>
>> The need coincides when solar PV panels are producing an excess.
>
>Except that solar panel efficiency drops off in high temperatures.

So run a Peltier pump to cool id. Duh! Do I have to think of
everything?

--

-Pip

On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 06:59:32 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Wednesday, 20 July 2022 at 14:26:45 UTC+1, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
>
>> Anything that leaves something to be cleaned up over a longer period of
>> time than civilisation has existed can never be truly 'green' but it may
>> help the planet get past the global warming doomsday in the meantime...
>
>The marketing of the 'green' message is all wrong. Extinction rebellion have
>it right; the 'planet' will be fine, it's the future of mankind that's under threat.

But "manipulating the biosphere to keep it human-friendly" doesn't
have the same marketing ring.

>Or, at least, the future of a population of 7Bn+ of us; I'm pretty sure that a large
>number will continue into the future in one form or another. Not so sure we
>move to the socialist future as seen in the Culture novels. Suspect 1984
>/ Brave New World is closer to the spirit of the future society, with a dash
>of handmaid's tale no doubt.

Oh ye of little faith.

--

-Pip

On 7/22/2022 1:58 PM, Pipl wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 06:59:32 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> <stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Wednesday, 20 July 2022 at 14:26:45 UTC+1, ChrisND @UKRM wrote:
>>
>>> Anything that leaves something to be cleaned up over a longer period of
>>> time than civilisation has existed can never be truly 'green' but it may
>>> help the planet get past the global warming doomsday in the meantime...
>>
>> The marketing of the 'green' message is all wrong. Extinction rebellion have
>> it right; the 'planet' will be fine, it's the future of mankind that's under threat.
>
> But "manipulating the biosphere to keep it human-friendly" doesn't
> have the same marketing ring.
>
>> Or, at least, the future of a population of 7Bn+ of us; I'm pretty sure that a large
>> number will continue into the future in one form or another. Not so sure we
>> move to the socialist future as seen in the Culture novels. Suspect 1984
>> / Brave New World is closer to the spirit of the future society, with a dash
>> of handmaid's tale no doubt.
>
> Oh ye of little faith.
>
I have complete and total faith in the incompetence of humanity. for
thousands of years we've been very consistent in our ability to deny
common sense and continue destroying our environment. We've known about
the problems we've created with regard to climate change for well over
50 years, yet we continue, unabated. A cafe' buddy spent a career as a
nuclear physicist, yet he thinks climate change is not an urgent
problem. WTF?
I'm glad I had it when I did. It was a fun time to be alive. The next
generations, not so much.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 25/07/2022 10:09, Turby wrote:
> nuclear physicist, yet he thinks climate change is not an urgent
> problem. WTF?

It's one of those conundrum thingies: doing something about is extremely
urgent; but if you don't do anything about it, it will take at least a
century for the 30-odd metre rise in sea-level to kick in and be
properly noticeable to the average nuclear physicist on holiday in
Scarborough[1]. :-(

[1] Other seaside destinations will be available, e.g. Yr Wyddfa.

This chart pretty much sums it up: we've had it as far as limiting to
1.5 degrees is concerned.

<https://insideclimatenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/CarbonBudget12yearsChart529px.png>

--
Bruce Horrocks
FJR1300AS

On 7/25/2022 9:25 AM, Bruce Horrocks wrote:
> On 25/07/2022 10:09, Turby wrote:
>> nuclear physicist, yet he thinks climate change is not an urgent
>> problem. WTF?
>
> It's one of those conundrum thingies: doing something about is extremely
> urgent; but if you don't do anything about it, it will take at least a
> century for the 30-odd metre rise in sea-level to kick in and be
> properly noticeable to the average nuclear physicist on holiday in
> Scarborough[1]. :-(
>
> [1] Other seaside destinations will be available, e.g. Yr Wyddfa.
>
> This chart pretty much sums it up: we've had it as far as limiting to
> 1.5 degrees is concerned.
>
> <https://insideclimatenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/CarbonBudget12yearsChart529px.png>
>
>
Yeah, but we're seeing it now, especially here in California. We're
building more houses for the homeless, but with no guarantee of a fresh
water supply. Meanwhile our primary sources, the Colorado River's Lake
Mead and Lake Powell, are scary shallow. The state has ordered rationing
of irrigation water.
OTOH, the largest trees on the planet, the giant Sequoias, are being
threatened by fires more than ever.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-62117139

It's happening now.

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS, ST1100 (in memoriam)