On 03/11/2023 11:50, sid wrote:
> I hadn't realised I had bought a washing machine with no hot water
> inlet. The silly situation where I heat up 50 gallons of water in the
> Heat Pump system, but cant use the hot water for the washing machine.

3 reasons

1) Cost to make a machine of an extra valve
2) Cold soak start to stop fixing of some stains
3) The amount of water used in a wash is such that in many instances the
initial slug of cold water before the hot is significant and is wasteful.

Most machines, with dual inlets, will only use hot water for a 90C wash.
There is a risk that the water will be too hot for a 50 or 60C wash.

Nothing to do with eco desires and aims claimed by art students, but is
a practical engineering solution covering many different installations.

Fredxx wrote:

> sid wrote:
>
>> I had bought a washing machine with no hot water inlet.
>
> 1) Cost to make a machine of an extra valve
> 2) Cold soak start to stop fixing of some stains
> 3) The amount of water used in a wash is such that in many instances the
> initial slug of cold water before the hot is significant and is wasteful.
>
> Most machines, with dual inlets, will only use hot water for a 90C wash.
> There is a risk that the water will be too hot for a 50 or 60C wash.
>
> Nothing to do with eco desires and aims claimed by art students, but is
> a practical engineering solution covering many different installations.

My previous three W/Ms had hot and cold fill, I would generally run off
the cold leg of water from the sink before starting a program, the
machine could decide for itself whether to use cold and/or hot fill
depending on the wash, you could hear it alternated between hot and cold
to get the temperature right.

Very probably the extra power consumed to heat the water in the machine
is minimal, I haven't noticed a spike in electricity costs, but it does
grate slightly that there is hot water available, not being used.

On 03/11/2023 11:50, Davey wrote:
> https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/11/01/birds-renaming-inclusive-racist-genocidal-histories/71394771007/
>
> I thought that birds' names were often given to honour their discoverer?
> Whatever.
>

I think it makes sense to give birds a descriptive name, rather than
something only an ornithologist will recognise. If I say I have seen a
grey heron, most people will know immediately what it looks like.

--
Colin Bignell

On Friday, 3 November 2023 at 13:15:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
> On 03/11/2023 11:50, sid wrote:
> > I hadn't realised I had bought a washing machine with no hot water
> > inlet. The silly situation where I heat up 50 gallons of water in the
> > Heat Pump system, but cant use the hot water for the washing machine.
> 3 reasons
>
> 1) Cost to make a machine of an extra valve
> 2) Cold soak start to stop fixing of some stains
> 3) The amount of water used in a wash is such that in many instances the
> initial slug of cold water before the hot is significant and is wasteful.

I thought it was due to the plastic pipes and connectors expanding and contracting
and causing leaks of hot water and the possible dangers it could cause.

and of course some people complaining that it used up the hot water in the cyclinder
they wanted to use for a shower or other purposes.

>
> Most machines, with dual inlets, will only use hot water for a 90C wash.
> There is a risk that the water will be too hot for a 50 or 60C wash.
>
> Nothing to do with eco desires and aims claimed by art students, but is
> a practical engineering solution covering many different installations.

On Friday, 3 November 2023 at 13:26:31 UTC, Colin Bignell wrote:
> On 03/11/2023 11:50, Davey wrote:
> > https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/11/01/birds-renaming-inclusive-racist-genocidal-histories/71394771007/
> >
> > I thought that birds' names were often given to honour their discoverer?
> > Whatever.
> >
> I think it makes sense to give birds a descriptive name, rather than
> something only an ornithologist will recognise. If I say I have seen a
> grey heron, most people will know immediately what it looks like.

True but if you've never seen a sparrow before what image would that give you.
Last year I saw a Jay in my garden didn't know what it was at first.

Almost anythings better than the latin name given to things.

But when I was on a beach in Greece I did see some great tits ;-)

>
> --
> Colin Bignell

It didn't impact me with my previous dual piped Indesit machine. I also have
an electric shower.

On 11:50 3 Nov 2023, Davey said:
>
> https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/11/01/birds-
> renaming-inclusive-racist-genocidal-histories/71394771007/
>
> I thought that birds' names were often given to honour their
> discoverer? Whatever.

It's more woke nonsense from minorities with a chip on their shoulder.
Their victimhood knows no bounds.

It's too silly for words.

What's next? Maybe some Black racists will rework all the biological
terms allocated by Carl Linnaeus, on the argument that his work (on the
classification of species) is "one of the roots of modern scientific
racism".

On Fri, 03 Nov 2023 06:28:30 -0700, whisky-dave wrote:

> On Friday, 3 November 2023 at 13:15:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 03/11/2023 11:50, sid wrote:
>> > I hadn't realised I had bought a washing machine with no hot water
>> > inlet. The silly situation where I heat up 50 gallons of water in the
>> > Heat Pump system, but cant use the hot water for the washing machine.
>> 3 reasons
>>
>> 1) Cost to make a machine of an extra valve 2) Cold soak start to stop
>> fixing of some stains 3) The amount of water used in a wash is such
>> that in many instances the initial slug of cold water before the hot is
>> significant and is wasteful.
>
> I thought it was due to the plastic pipes and connectors expanding and
> contracting and causing leaks of hot water and the possible dangers it
> could cause.
>
> and of course some people complaining that it used up the hot water in
> the cyclinder they wanted to use for a shower or other purposes.

Our machine(s) (one just delivered and one just taken away) are cold fill
only. When they fill the drop in water pressure causes the electric
shower to fluctuate quite unpleasantly. As I have <ahem> gently pointed
out to SWMBO.

On Fri, 03 Nov 2023 13:59:49 GMT
Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 11:50 3 Nov 2023, Davey said:
> >
> > https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/11/01/birds-
> > renaming-inclusive-racist-genocidal-histories/71394771007/
> >
> > I thought that birds' names were often given to honour their
> > discoverer? Whatever.
>
> It's more woke nonsense from minorities with a chip on their
> shoulder. Their victimhood knows no bounds.
>
> It's too silly for words.
>
> What's next? Maybe some Black racists will rework all the biological
> terms allocated by Carl Linnaeus, on the argument that his work (on
> the classification of species) is "one of the roots of modern
> scientific racism".

Thankfully, this project has no intention of changing the scientific
names, which are there for a reason, even if the names are hard to say
or remember. Even what they are suggesting is woke nuts. Are they going
to reprint every bird identification book in existence?
And what about birds that cross oceans to other continents, which call
the birds by their original names? Just because the US renames a bird,
the rest of the word has no need to follow, and hopefully won't.
Poor birds will turn schizophrenic.

--
Davey.

On 03/11/2023 13:28, whisky-dave wrote:
> On Friday, 3 November 2023 at 13:15:27 UTC, Fredxx wrote:
>> On 03/11/2023 11:50, sid wrote:
>>> I hadn't realised I had bought a washing machine with no hot water
>>> inlet. The silly situation where I heat up 50 gallons of water in the
>>> Heat Pump system, but cant use the hot water for the washing machine.
>> 3 reasons
>>
>> 1) Cost to make a machine of an extra valve
>> 2) Cold soak start to stop fixing of some stains
>> 3) The amount of water used in a wash is such that in many instances the
>> initial slug of cold water before the hot is significant and is wasteful.
>
> I thought it was due to the plastic pipes and connectors expanding and contracting
> and causing leaks of hot water and the possible dangers it could cause.
>
> and of course some people complaining that it used up the hot water in the cyclinder
> they wanted to use for a shower or other purposes.

The volume of initial fill hot water used by a washing machine is pretty
small. I note Ebac claim 20 litres other sources suggest 5-15 litres.

>> Most machines, with dual inlets, will only use hot water for a 90C wash.
>> There is a risk that the water will be too hot for a 50 or 60C wash.
>>
>> Nothing to do with eco desires and aims claimed by art students, but is
>> a practical engineering solution covering many different installations.

On 3 Nov 2023 at 13:15:23 GMT, Fredxx wrote:

> On 03/11/2023 11:50, sid wrote:
>> I hadn't realised I had bought a washing machine with no hot water
>> inlet. The silly situation where I heat up 50 gallons of water in the
>> Heat Pump system, but cant use the hot water for the washing machine.
>
> 3 reasons
>
> 1) Cost to make a machine of an extra valve
> 2) Cold soak start to stop fixing of some stains
> 3) The amount of water used in a wash is such that in many instances the
> initial slug of cold water before the hot is significant and is wasteful.
>

If it's anything like my combi, that initial slug can be the best part of the
water needed for the wash - taking up to a minute before hot water comes
through.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 04/11/2023 23:44, Fredxx wrote:
> On 03/11/2023 13:28, whisky-dave wrote:

> The volume of initial fill hot water used by a washing machine is pretty
> small. I note Ebac claim 20 litres other sources suggest 5-15 litres.

When the machine first fills not only does it have to have a minimum
water level but it must also soak the washing. Often there is an initial
fill, a few turns of the drum and then a top up fill (maybe two or three
top ups depending on the type of load). The first part of the wash will
likely be cold to prevent setting some stains so even after a pump out
before the main wash the load in the drum will will still be damp/wet
and so the amount of water subsequently required will be a lot less.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

sid <me@home.uk> wrote:

> I hadn't realised I had bought a washing machine with no hot water inlet.
> The silly situation where I heat up 50 gallons of water in the Heat Pump
> system, but can’t use the hot water for the washing machine.

If you are so concerned, get a hosepipe tap fitting and a short length of
hose, fill the machine from the hot tap.

Note that there are drawbacks to this approach, as have already been
mentioned.

--
Spike

On 2023-11-03, Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
>
> Thankfully, this project has no intention of changing the scientific
> names, which are there for a reason, even if the names are hard to say
> or remember. Even what they are suggesting is woke nuts. Are they going
> to reprint every bird identification book in existence?
> And what about birds that cross oceans to other continents, which call
> the birds by their original names? Just because the US renames a bird,
> the rest of the word has no need to follow, and hopefully won't.
> Poor birds will turn schizophrenic.
>

Ah yes. Common bird names across the pond. Robin for instance, different
bird either side of the pond, while we have divers they have loons etc.
And don't get me started on tits :-)

On 03-Nov-23 9:53, Bob Henson wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher wrote:
>
>> On 02/11/2023 18:55, Ian Jackson wrote:
>>> Sunday (the 'Lord's Day') became regarded as the first day of the week
>>> because of a misplaced respect for God, but it's pretty obvious that it
>>> should be the last day.
>>
>> A typical ArtStudent comment where "it's pretty obvious" = "There is no
>> discernible reason whatsoever"...

Well, it was an astronomer from Florence, Francesco Sizzi, who quoted
Francis Bacon to 'prove'[1] that there could only be 7 planets - because
there are 7 holes in the human head.

[1] Thus refuting the work of that upstart Galileo.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 03/11/2023 11:50, sid wrote:
> I hadn't realised I had bought a washing machine with no hot water
> inlet. The silly situation where I heat up 50 gallons of water in the
> Heat Pump system, but cant use the hot water for the washing machine.

Modern machines use less water and, in many cases, the length of pipe
between a hot water cylinder or combi-boiler and the washing machine
means that it will fill almost entirely with cold water anyway, leaving
the pipework to lose heat from the hot water that has made its way
through. It is more efficient to just heat the water in the machine and
avoid those losses.

SteveW <steve@walker-family.me.uk> wrote:
> Modern machines use less water and, in many cases, the length of pipe
> between a hot water cylinder or combi-boiler and the washing machine
> means that it will fill almost entirely with cold water anyway, leaving
> the pipework to lose heat from the hot water that has made its way
> through. It is more efficient to just heat the water in the machine and
> avoid those losses.

Is there a good reason not to insulate your hot water pipes to avoid that
problem?

There's Legionella risk, but you're feeding the pipe with hot water so
they'll get zapped, and Legionella will still lurk in a pipe with stagnant
room temperature water in it (see the Bibby Stockholm saga).

Theo

On 03/11/2023 12:44, Alan Lee wrote:
> On 03/11/2023 11:50, sid wrote:
>> I hadn't realised I had bought a washing machine with no hot water
>> inlet. The silly situation where I heat up 50 gallons of water in the
>> Heat Pump system, but cant use the hot water for the washing machine.
>
> Welcome to the year 2000.
> Standard domestic washing machines have been like that for a long time.
>

ebac make and sell washing m/c's that can have hot and
cold input. I have posted this before, but for some reason
ebac don't seem to market them very well and few white
goods dealers seem to be aware of them.

Andrew <Andrew97d@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 03/11/2023 12:44, Alan Lee wrote:
> > On 03/11/2023 11:50, sid wrote:
> >> I hadn't realised I had bought a washing machine with no hot water
> >> inlet. The silly situation where I heat up 50 gallons of water in the
> >> Heat Pump system, but cant use the hot water for the washing machine.
> >
> > Welcome to the year 2000.
> > Standard domestic washing machines have been like that for a long time.
> >
>
> ebac make and sell washing m/c's that can have hot and
> cold input. I have posted this before, but for some reason
> ebac don't seem to market them very well and few white
> goods dealers seem to be aware of them.

Are they any good? I see various 'buy British' marketing but wonder how
they compare with the competition.

Theo

RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> If it's anything like my combi, that initial slug can be the best part of
> the water needed for the wash - taking up to a minute before hot water
> comes through.

Let's do some numbers on this. Suppose the initial fill is 10 litres from a
15mm pipe. If your fill takes a minute your flow rate would be 10
litres/min which is what mine is, so sounds about right.

CSA is pi r^2, so 0.75*0.75*3.14 = 1.76 cm2

10 litres thus needs 10000 / 1.76 = 5681 cm = 56.81m of pipe run

I wonder who has a 56m pipe run from the hot water cylinder in their house?
Mine is about 7m.

Theo

He's using a combi, so an initial burn to heat heat excahanger before hot
water becomes available.

If from tank, 10L per min is virtually impossible with 15mm pipe and usual
pipe runs, more like 2.5 L per min.

Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
> > If it's anything like my combi, that initial slug can be the best part
> > of the water needed for the wash - taking up to a minute before hot
> > water comes through.
>
> Let's do some numbers on this. Suppose the initial fill is 10 litres from
> a 15mm pipe. If your fill takes a minute your flow rate would be 10
> litres/min which is what mine is, so sounds about right.
>
> CSA is pi r^2, so 0.75*0.75*3.14 = 1.76 cm2
>
> 10 litres thus needs 10000 / 1.76 = 5681 cm = 56.81m of pipe run
>
> I wonder who has a 56m pipe run from the hot water cylinder in their
> house? Mine is about 7m.
>
> Theo
>
>
>

--
braind

On 06/11/2023 20:34, me9 wrote:
> He's using a combi, so an initial burn to heat heat excahanger before hot
> water becomes available.
>
> If from tank, 10L per min is virtually impossible with 15mm pipe and usual
> pipe runs, more like 2.5 L per min.
>

It's unlikely that a machine will only use the hot supply. If the
machine is mixing hot and cold it will probably still need to heat the
water itself to get to the final temperature.
On lower temperature washes the hot supply may not be used at all.

Although a 60c+ wash may be required to remove oil based stains modern
detergents are claimed to work down to 15C and most people could get
away with the majority of washes at 20, 30, or 40C.

--
mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 11:50:47 +0000, Davey <davey@example.invalid>
wrote:

>https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2023/11/01/birds-renaming-inclusive-racist-genocidal-histories/71394771007/
>
>I thought that birds' names were often given to honour their discoverer?
>Whatever.

So is that why Elon Musk renamed his social media platform?

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

Wokery, like religion will eventually fade away, but only when people think
for themselves.

On 23/11/2023 15:19, sid wrote:
> Wokery, like religion will eventually fade away, but only when people
> think for themselves.

But they don't. Especially people who are over educated. They feel
ashamed of admitting they cant figure stiff out so compensate by
parroting what everyone else is saying on the media.

--
The biggest threat to humanity comes from socialism, which has utterly
diverted our attention away from what really matters to our existential
survival, to indulging in navel gazing and faux moral investigations
into what the world ought to be, whilst we fail utterly to deal with
what it actually is.