Anyone know a source for a basic 2 bar-type radiant electric fire? Something
like this:

https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html

.. . . although not that - I had one and first a bar failed, than it melted the
fixings with the remaining bar.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 29/11/2023 04:31, RJH wrote:
> Anyone know a source for a basic 2 bar-type radiant electric fire? Something
> like this:
>
> https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html
>
> . . . although not that - I had one and first a bar failed, than it melted the
> fixings with the remaining bar.
>

https://www.amazon.co.uk/electric-bar-fire/s?k=electric+bar+fire

--
In todays liberal progressive conflict-free education system, everyone
gets full Marx.

On 29 Nov 2023 at 08:58:52 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 29/11/2023 04:31, RJH wrote:
>> Anyone know a source for a basic 2 bar-type radiant electric fire? Something
>> like this:
>>
>> https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html
>>
>> . . . although not that - I had one and first a bar failed, than it melted the
>> fixings with the remaining bar.
>>
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/electric-bar-fire/s?k=electric+bar+fire

Yes, thanks, seen those - alas, they're either like the one I mentioned, are
too ornate and expensive, or halogen and too bright.

It's just an old school 2 barele ctric fire I'm after.
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 29 Nov 2023 at 08:58:52 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:

> On 29/11/2023 04:31, RJH wrote:
>> Anyone know a source for a basic 2 bar-type radiant electric fire? Something
>> like this:
>>
>> https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html
>>
>> . . . although not that - I had one and first a bar failed, than it melted the
>> fixings with the remaining bar.
>>
>
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/electric-bar-fire/s?k=electric+bar+fire

Yes, thanks, seen those - alas, they're either like the one I mentioned, are
too ornate and expensive, or halogen and too bright.

It's just an old school 2 barele ctric fire I'm after.
--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

David Brooks wrote:

> RJH wrote:
>
>> Something like this:
>> <https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html>
>> although not that
>
> This any good?
> <https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HHMV54F>
That's exactly not what he's looking for!

On 29 Nov 2023 at 12:32:58 GMT, Andy Burns wrote:

> David Brooks wrote:
>
>> RJH wrote:
>>
>>> Something like this:
>>> <https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html>
>>> although not that
>>
>> This any good?
>> <https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HHMV54F>
> That's exactly not what he's looking for!

Indeed - as mentioned in the OP. The same thing is coming up as a branded item
though:

https://www.daewooelectricals.com/cooling-heating-c14/heating-c56/all-heaters-c62/daewoo-1200w-2-bar-ceramic-heater-p632

Wondering if they've improved/de-rated the design - ISTR my original was 1400w

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 29 Nov 2023 at 12:32:58 GMT, Andy Burns wrote:

> David Brooks wrote:
>
>> RJH wrote:
>>
>>> Something like this:
>>> <https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html>
>>> although not that
>>
>> This any good?
>> <https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HHMV54F>
> That's exactly not what he's looking for!

Indeed - as mentioned in the OP. The same thing is coming up as a branded item
though:

https://www.daewooelectricals.com/cooling-heating-c14/heating-c56/all-heaters-c62/daewoo-1200w-2-bar-ceramic-heater-p632

Wondering if they've improved/de-rated the design - ISTR my original was 1400w

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

RJH wrote:

> The same thing is coming up as a branded item
> though:

or this?

<https://hotrodtiki-vintage.com/product/vintage-1930s-hmv-bruton-chrome-2-bar-electric-fire-art-deco-stunning/>

On 29/11/2023 04:31, RJH wrote:
> Anyone know a source for a basic 2 bar-type radiant electric fire? Something
> like this:
>
> https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html
>
> . . . although not that - I had one and first a bar failed, than it melted the
> fixings with the remaining bar.
>

They do seem to have gone out of fashion[1] - the wall mounted patio
heater style are still available. Some of those are still traditional
radiant rather than halogen. TLC have one dimplex listed - but "sold out"

[1] Might be a conservation of energy legislation thing...

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 29/11/2023 13:09, David Brooks wrote:
> On 29/11/2023 12:32, Andy Burns wrote:
>> David Brooks wrote:
>>
>>> RJH wrote:
>>>
>>>> Something like this:
>>>> <https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html>
>>>> although not that
>>>
>>> This any good? <https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HHMV54F>
>> That's exactly not what he's looking for!
>
> Oops!
>
> Please SHOW me what he DOES want.

I suspect if he knew that, he probably would not have posted :-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On Wed, 29 Nov 2023 13:30:03 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

>RJH wrote:
>
>> The same thing is coming up as a branded item
>> though:
>
>or this?
>
><https://hotrodtiki-vintage.com/product/vintage-1930s-hmv-bruton-chrome-2-bar-electric-fire-art-deco-stunning/>

That particular one carries a "not been tested" disclaimer with it but
there are quite a few similar items under the Vintage Electric Heater
category on eBay which do claim to work

Nick

On 29/11/2023 13:09, David Brooks wrote:
> On 29/11/2023 12:32, Andy Burns wrote:
>> David Brooks wrote:
>>
>>> RJH wrote:
>>>
>>>> Something like this:
>>>> <https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html>
>>>> although not that
>>>
>>> This any good? <https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HHMV54F>
>> That's exactly not what he's looking for!
>
> Oops!
>
> Please SHOW me what he DOES want.

I suspect if he knew that, he probably would not have posted :-)

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On 29/11/2023 14:24, John Rumm wrote:
> On 29/11/2023 04:31, RJH wrote:
>> Anyone know a source for a basic 2 bar-type radiant electric fire?
>> Something
>> like this:
>>
>> https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html
>>
>> . . . although not that - I had one and first a bar failed, than it
>> melted the
>> fixings with the remaining bar.
>>
>
> They do seem to have gone out of fashion[1] - the wall mounted patio
> heater style are still available. Some of those are still traditional
> radiant rather than halogen. TLC have one dimplex listed - but "sold out"
>
>
> [1] Might be a conservation of energy legislation thing...
>

IIRC the EU rules on local space heaters in 2015 pretty well ignored
electric resistance heaters. And I think they proposed to add mandatory
labelling to them for the new regs due this year but no more.

I'd suspect more the production cost of winding an element with Nichrome
wire compared with the cost of more modern alternatives.

I'd also just wondered about the electrical safety for traditional fires
in some jurisdictions. Not seen IP ratings for them :)

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On 29 Nov 2023, RJH wrote

> Anyone know a source for a basic 2 bar-type radiant electric fire?
> Something like this:
>
> https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html
>
> . . . although not that - I had one and first a bar failed, than
> it melted the fixings with the remaining bar.

I've had one that's similar to this for many years (bought from Argos):

https://cpc.farnell.com/pro-elec/pel00939-uk/2kw-convector-
heater/dp/HG01003?st=heater

It's never given me cause to worry if it's going to go into meltdown.

The one I have has a slightly different design than the one you pointed
to, as the "bars" inside the housing are flat wires rather than
circular. (I'm not clear if that's safer, but aside from the housing
it's the only major difference I can see.)

--
Cheers, Harvey

On Wednesday, 29 November 2023 at 13:30:10 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
> RJH wrote:
>
> > The same thing is coming up as a branded item
> > though:
> or this?
>
> <https://hotrodtiki-vintage.com/product/vintage-1930s-hmv-bruton-chrome-2-bar-electric-fire-art-deco-stunning/>

Somewhat pretty but utterly unsafe. As are a lot of old bar fires.
Halogen ones tend to have a switch that turns it off if tipped. They're also shaped to discourage fallen items landing where the element is.

On 29/11/2023 14:32, David Brooks wrote:
> On 29/11/2023 14:24, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 29/11/2023 13:09, David Brooks wrote:
>>> On 29/11/2023 12:32, Andy Burns wrote:
>>>> David Brooks wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> RJH wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Something like this:
>>>>>> <https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html>
>>>>>> although not that
>>>>>
>>>>> This any good? <https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HHMV54F>
>>>> That's exactly not what he's looking for!
>>>
>>> Oops!
>>>
>>> Please SHOW me what he DOES want.
>>
>> I suspect if he knew that, he probably would not have posted :-)
>
> Is the fellow often confused?
>
I's another of the 'I want a perfect electric unicorn made of
unobtanium ' posts.
One strike and he's out.

--
There’s a mighty big difference between good, sound reasons and reasons
that sound good.

Burton Hillis (William Vaughn, American columnist)

On 11/29/2023 8:08 AM, RJH wrote:
> On 29 Nov 2023 at 12:32:58 GMT, Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> David Brooks wrote:
>>
>>> RJH wrote:
>>>
>>>> Something like this:
>>>> <https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html>
>>>> although not that
>>>
>>> This any good?
>>> <https://amazon.co.uk/dp/B07HHMV54F>
>> That's exactly not what he's looking for!
>
> Indeed - as mentioned in the OP. The same thing is coming up as a branded item
> though:
>
> https://www.daewooelectricals.com/cooling-heating-c14/heating-c56/all-heaters-c62/daewoo-1200w-2-bar-ceramic-heater-p632
>
> Wondering if they've improved/de-rated the design - ISTR my original was 1400w
>

That item has a user manual.

https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1H0raLXj6L.pdf

What I would do, is:

1) Only buy electric fires with low/high setting capability.
2) Buy two of the electric fires.
3) Operate each electric fire on low.
4) Enjoy longer service life.
Two fires on low, equals same heat output as one fire on high.

I would not buy a fire with just one setting, because
it runs on high all the time.

The power the element draws is variable.

1) A 1200W element will draw 1500W for the first 10 seconds.
The surface temperature of the element matters.
The rating on the tin ("1200W") only happens once the
element is glowing-warm.

You may not think this matters, but sometimes when something
trips in your electrical panel, it is traceable to this.

Incandescent light bulbs, when we were using those, those
draw 2x the rated power, when the filament is cold. It is only
when a 60W incandescent bulb is hot, that it draws... 60W.

2) The 1200W rating is only if mains is "nominal". If your mains
is higher than normal, and is high all the time, this causes the
fire to dissipate more than 1200W, and potentially shortening
the service life of the elements.

It's because of these observations, at my house, you can "only"
run a fire on low. (My mains is high enough, it blew my AV receiver!)
This provides a bit of engineering margin while using such things.

I studied my fire, on low, using a Kill-O-Watt meter. That's how
I could see the excess consumption when cold. Running the fire on
high, is too much for the Kill-O-Watt meter and would melt the
solder around the shunt inside. the Kill-O-Watt meter has a
readout for mains voltage, so you can know what that voltage
is right now. You can read the voltage with the Kill-O-Watt
before even plugging the fire in.

Paul

On 11/29/2023 11:09 AM, Robin wrote:
> On 29/11/2023 14:24, John Rumm wrote:
>> On 29/11/2023 04:31, RJH wrote:
>>> Anyone know a source for a basic 2 bar-type radiant electric fire? Something
>>> like this:
>>>
>>> https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html
>>>
>>> . . . although not that - I had one and first a bar failed, than it melted the
>>> fixings with the remaining bar.
>>>
>>
>> They do seem to have gone out of fashion[1] - the wall mounted patio heater style are still available. Some of those are still traditional radiant rather than halogen. TLC have one dimplex listed - but "sold out"
>>
>>
>> [1] Might be a conservation of energy legislation thing...
>>
>
> IIRC the EU rules on local space heaters in 2015 pretty well ignored electric resistance heaters. And I think they proposed to add mandatory labelling to them for the new regs due this year but no more.
>
> I'd suspect more the production cost of winding an element with Nichrome wire compared with the cost of more modern alternatives.
>
> I'd also just wondered about the electrical safety for traditional fires in some jurisdictions.  Not seen IP ratings for them :)
>

The addition of the "anti-tipping switch" on the bottom
of the units, is about as close to a "safety miracle"
as you're going to get. That will probably avoid a
few unnecessary house fires.

Some adverts, don't even mention the anti-tipping switch.
If you sit the fire on your carpet, the soft carpet may
not be sufficient to depress the switch and enable the unit.
Then you need to sit a flat board under the unit,
so there is something solid enough to depress the switch.

As for safety, you are as likely to have an event related
to cord, plug, wiring, as for the fire itself to ignite something.
It's a high current device and all the electrical connections
need to be tight.

Paul

I have a belling and its never caused any issues at all. I'm sure radiant
heat heaters are still about, but who remembers the old bar fires with the
resistance wire wound on the outside of a ceramic bar with scant guard to
protect it.
Lethal.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"RJH" <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote in message
news:uk6eql$lmc3$1@dont-email.me...
> Anyone know a source for a basic 2 bar-type radiant electric fire?
> Something
> like this:
>
> https://www.bjselectrical.co.uk/swan-s454-20003870.html
>
> . . . although not that - I had one and first a bar failed, than it melted
> the
> fixings with the remaining bar.
>
> --
> Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On 29/11/2023 18:29, Paul wrote:
<snip>
> What I would do, is:
>
> 1) Only buy electric fires with low/high setting capability.
> 2) Buy two of the electric fires.
> 3) Operate each electric fire on low.
> 4) Enjoy longer service life.
> Two fires on low, equals same heat output as one fire on high.
</snip>

YMMV.

I have a halogen type radiant on the wall next to me now (it heats me,
not the rest of my garden office).

It's got three heat settings:

One bar
Two bars
Three bars.

The first bar will when it reaches its life regardless of when the other
elements were turned on.

Andy

On 30 Nov 2023 at 16:56:30 GMT, Vir Campestris wrote:

> On 29/11/2023 18:29, Paul wrote:
> <snip>
>> What I would do, is:
>>
>> 1) Only buy electric fires with low/high setting capability.
>> 2) Buy two of the electric fires.
>> 3) Operate each electric fire on low.
>> 4) Enjoy longer service life.
>> Two fires on low, equals same heat output as one fire on high.
> </snip>
>
> YMMV.
>
> I have a halogen type radiant on the wall next to me now (it heats me,
> not the rest of my garden office).
>
> It's got three heat settings:
>
> One bar
> Two bars
> Three bars.
>
> The first bar will when it reaches its life regardless of when the other
> elements were turned on.
>

Indeed - lost the first bar on my one of those recently. But too bright for
the lounge where I'd like the 2 bar electric fire.

Coming round to the notion that this is the best that I'm going to get:

https://www.daewooelectricals.com/cooling-heating-c14/heating-c56/all-heaters-c62/daewoo-1200w-2-bar-ceramic-heater-p632

Fingers crossed they've better built than my last one (about 5 years ago)

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 18:03:21 +0000, RJH wrote:

> On 30 Nov 2023 at 16:56:30 GMT, Vir Campestris wrote:
>
>> On 29/11/2023 18:29, Paul wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> What I would do, is:
>>>
>>> 1) Only buy electric fires with low/high setting capability.
>>> 2) Buy two of the electric fires.
>>> 3) Operate each electric fire on low.
>>> 4) Enjoy longer service life.
>>> Two fires on low, equals same heat output as one fire on high.
>> </snip>
>>
>> YMMV.
>>
>> I have a halogen type radiant on the wall next to me now (it heats me,
>> not the rest of my garden office).
>>
>> It's got three heat settings:
>>
>> One bar Two bars Three bars.
>>
>> The first bar will when it reaches its life regardless of when the
>> other elements were turned on.
>>
>>
> Indeed - lost the first bar on my one of those recently. But too bright
> for the lounge where I'd like the 2 bar electric fire.
>
> Coming round to the notion that this is the best that I'm going to get:
>
> https://www.daewooelectricals.com/cooling-heating-c14/heating-c56/all-
heaters-c62/daewoo-1200w-2-bar-ceramic-heater-p632
>
> Fingers crossed they've better built than my last one (about 5 years
> ago)

Lost what the original requirement was, but...

Having just junked my old halogen 2*400W because the cheap plastic case
was going brittle and cracking, I found a 2*500W "quartz" heater in B&Q.
This is better than the old one as it is both silent (unlike a fan
heater) and doesn't dazzle you (unlike a halogen). It has the old-
fashioned coil of nichrome inside a quartz tube type of element and just
glows a dull red.

I also looked at a small oil-filled radiator, but the 500W I tried only
gave out ~250W as it cycled on the overheat cut-out. Apparently lots of
them do than, they can't dissipate their rated power into still air.

nib

On 30/11/2023 21:13, nib wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 18:03:21 +0000, RJH wrote:
>
>> On 30 Nov 2023 at 16:56:30 GMT, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>
>>> On 29/11/2023 18:29, Paul wrote:
>>> <snip>
>>>> What I would do, is:
>>>>
>>>> 1) Only buy electric fires with low/high setting capability.
>>>> 2) Buy two of the electric fires.
>>>> 3) Operate each electric fire on low.
>>>> 4) Enjoy longer service life.
>>>> Two fires on low, equals same heat output as one fire on high.
>>> </snip>
>>>
>>> YMMV.
>>>
>>> I have a halogen type radiant on the wall next to me now (it heats me,
>>> not the rest of my garden office).
>>>
>>> It's got three heat settings:
>>>
>>> One bar Two bars Three bars.
>>>
>>> The first bar will when it reaches its life regardless of when the
>>> other elements were turned on.
>>>
>>>
>> Indeed - lost the first bar on my one of those recently. But too bright
>> for the lounge where I'd like the 2 bar electric fire.
>>
>> Coming round to the notion that this is the best that I'm going to get:
>>
>> https://www.daewooelectricals.com/cooling-heating-c14/heating-c56/all-
> heaters-c62/daewoo-1200w-2-bar-ceramic-heater-p632
>>
>> Fingers crossed they've better built than my last one (about 5 years
>> ago)
>
> Lost what the original requirement was, but...
>
> Having just junked my old halogen 2*400W because the cheap plastic case
> was going brittle and cracking, I found a 2*500W "quartz" heater in B&Q.
> This is better than the old one as it is both silent (unlike a fan
> heater) and doesn't dazzle you (unlike a halogen). It has the old-
> fashioned coil of nichrome inside a quartz tube type of element and just
> glows a dull red.

This one?:

https://www.diy.com/departments/electric-1kw-light-grey-quartz-heater/1409143_BQ.prd?alt=true

--
Cheers,

John.

/=================================================================\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\=================================================================/

On Fri, 01 Dec 2023 10:50:07 +0000, John Rumm wrote:

> On 30/11/2023 21:13, nib wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 18:03:21 +0000, RJH wrote:
>>
>>> On 30 Nov 2023 at 16:56:30 GMT, Vir Campestris wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 29/11/2023 18:29, Paul wrote:
>>>> <snip>
>>>>> What I would do, is:
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Only buy electric fires with low/high setting capability.
>>>>> 2) Buy two of the electric fires.
>>>>> 3) Operate each electric fire on low.
>>>>> 4) Enjoy longer service life.
>>>>> Two fires on low, equals same heat output as one fire on high.
>>>> </snip>
>>>>
>>>> YMMV.
>>>>
>>>> I have a halogen type radiant on the wall next to me now (it heats
>>>> me,
>>>> not the rest of my garden office).
>>>>
>>>> It's got three heat settings:
>>>>
>>>> One bar Two bars Three bars.
>>>>
>>>> The first bar will when it reaches its life regardless of when the
>>>> other elements were turned on.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Indeed - lost the first bar on my one of those recently. But too
>>> bright for the lounge where I'd like the 2 bar electric fire.
>>>
>>> Coming round to the notion that this is the best that I'm going to
>>> get:
>>>
>>> https://www.daewooelectricals.com/cooling-heating-c14/heating-c56/all-
>> heaters-c62/daewoo-1200w-2-bar-ceramic-heater-p632
>>>
>>> Fingers crossed they've better built than my last one (about 5 years
>>> ago)
>>
>> Lost what the original requirement was, but...
>>
>> Having just junked my old halogen 2*400W because the cheap plastic case
>> was going brittle and cracking, I found a 2*500W "quartz" heater in
>> B&Q.
>> This is better than the old one as it is both silent (unlike a fan
>> heater) and doesn't dazzle you (unlike a halogen). It has the old-
>> fashioned coil of nichrome inside a quartz tube type of element and
>> just glows a dull red.
>
> This one?:
>
> https://www.diy.com/departments/electric-1kw-light-grey-quartz-
heater/1409143_BQ.prd?alt=true

That's the one, except mine has the warning label at the top instead of
bottom left.

Part number 3663 6029 1103 6

24 quid.

nib

On 30/11/2023 21:13, nib wrote:

> Having just junked my old halogen 2*400W because the cheap plastic case
> was going brittle and cracking, I found a 2*500W "quartz" heater in B&Q.

Why are heaters halogen anyway? I thought the idea was that a halogen
lamp is more efficient and/or the filament lasts longer at the higher
temperature. A heater only has to be red hot.

--
Max Demian