In message <s9q7d0$1eme$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 11:07:12 on Wed, 9 Jun
2021, MrSpook_kl2bniF8dn@bvf.gov.uk remarked:

>>Certainly some military aircraft appear on FlightRadar, for instance
>>RAZOR011 as I write, but I would expect it would be a requirement for using
>>airspace that’s controlled by civil ATC and mixing with civilian flights.
>
>Possibly, but I suspect AF1 is a special case and other air traffic will be
>held out of its way while it lands at Northolt. Allowing it to be seen on
>FR would be an invite to any terrorist who could get hold of a SAM.

IF AF1 lands at Northolt, he'll have been looking at the stuff painted
on the top of the wrong gasometer!

"On October 25th 1960 a Pan American (Pan-Am) Boing 707 jet with
41 passengers and crew on board landed at RAF Northolt by
mistake!

The approaches to Heathrow and Northolt were similar in that
each approach, when heading over London, had before them and
very large and similar in appearance gasometers. The pilot is
seems saw the gasometer and then beyond it the runway and assume
it was Heathrow, when the gasometer was in Harrow. The Heathrow
approach has a gasometer in Hounslow.

In order to try to prevent the same thing happening again on the
Harrow gasometer it large letters the letters NO (for Northolt)
were painted on it and on the one in Houslow LH (for Heathrow)."

Although Mildenhall is rather further away in the wrong direction.
--
Roland Perry

In message <s9q8e4$1v37$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 11:24:52 on Wed, 9 Jun
2021, MrSpook_eZk@rb197o.co.uk remarked:

>>>What are the odds that AF1 has a transponder that can be seen on FlightRadar?
>>>Pretty slim I should think - its military.
>>
>>I was trying not to go down that rathole. I did see that some
>>refuelling tankers from Mildenhall were flying around on FlightRadar
>>this morning.
>>
>>Anyway, from their website:
>>
>>"For security and privacy reasons information about some aircraft is
>>limited or blocked. This includes most military aircraft and certain
>>high profile aircraft, like Air Force One."
>
>I wonder if they extend the same curtesy to the Boris Biplane. Or whatever
>spare jet they can rustle up from the RAF pool.

It was mentioned this morning on the news that he was flying to
Cornwall, but they didn't say using what aircraft.

Ahead of him completing yet another vanity project for a Royal Yacht
mk2, in the mean time it's reported he has an RAF Voyager [A330 in drag]
at his disposal (the paint job at £900k being slightly less than his
Downing St wallpaper).
--
Roland Perry

On 09/06/2021 11:01, Roland Perry wrote:
> If you don't know when "around the time is", how does that help? Or are
> we supposed to stare at it all day, on the off chance.

Is there not a NOTAM? Or is it all secret?

On 09/06/2021 12:07, Roland Perry wrote:
> Anyway, from their website:
>
> "For security and privacy reasons information about some aircraft is
> limited or blocked. This includes most military aircraft and certain
> high profile aircraft, like Air Force One."
> --

But is that filtering by FlightRadar or do they have their transponders
off? Don't forget that Air Traffic Control seem to now rely completely
on secondary radar.

On 09/06/2021 12:07, MrSpook_kl2bniF8dn@bvf.gov.uk wrote:
> Possibly, but I suspect AF1 is a special case and other air traffic will be
> held out of its way while it lands at Northolt. Allowing it to be seen on
> FR would be an invite to any terrorist who could get hold of a SAM.

It is not just one aircraft, there is a the reserve and various other
aircraft for comms as well as the fighter escort and SAR cover.

On 2021-06-09 11:07:12 +0000, MrSpook_kl2bniF8dn@bvf.gov.uk said:

> On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 10:48:43 -0000 (UTC)
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> <MrSpook_58xo1ri9z@pb08od05yr_gbg9nz.biz> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 11:01:22 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <s9pr89$kam$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:23 on Wed, 9 Jun 2021,
>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>> On 08/06/2021 22:39, Graham Harrison wrote:
>>>>>> I gather Biden is arriving tomorrow into Mildenhall to meet BoJo on
>>>>>> Thursday.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should be able to get an idea by watching FlightRadar around the
>>>>> time that JoBi's aircraft is due.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't know when "around the time is", how does that help? Or are
>>>> we supposed to stare at it all day, on the off chance.
>>>
>>> What are the odds that AF1 has a transponder that can be seen on FlightRadar?
>>
>>> Pretty slim I should think - its military.
>>
>> Certainly some military aircraft appear on FlightRadar, for instance
>> RAZOR011 as I write, but I would expect it would be a requirement for using
>> airspace that’s controlled by civil ATC and mixing with civilian flights.
>
> Possibly, but I suspect AF1 is a special case and other air traffic will be
> held out of its way while it lands at Northolt. Allowing it to be seen on
> FR would be an invite to any terrorist who could get hold of a SAM.

Given that it is open news at which airport and on which day AF1 will
be landing, I really don't see how the presence or otherwise of AF1 on
something like flightradar makes any kind of difference. The kind of
SAM that a terrorist might be realistically able to deploy in the UK is
not going to be beyond visual range, so simply hanging around the
flightpath and making a visual identification would be adequate.

Robin

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <s9q4lv$17v$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 10:20:48 on Wed, 9 Jun
> 2021, MrSpook_58xo1ri9z@pb08od05yr_gbg9nz.biz remarked:
>> On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 11:01:22 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <s9pr89$kam$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:23 on Wed, 9 Jun 2021,
>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>> On 08/06/2021 22:39, Graham Harrison wrote:
>>>>> I gather Biden is arriving tomorrow into Mildenhall to meet BoJo on
>>>>> Thursday.
>>>>
>>>> You should be able to get an idea by watching FlightRadar around the
>>>> time that JoBi's aircraft is due.
>>>
>>> If you don't know when "around the time is", how does that help? Or are
>>> we supposed to stare at it all day, on the off chance.
>>
>> What are the odds that AF1 has a transponder that can be seen on FlightRadar?
>> Pretty slim I should think - its military.
>
> I was trying not to go down that rahole. I did see that some refuelling
> tankers from Mildenhall were flying around on FlightRadar this morning.
>
> Anyway, from their website:
>
> "For security and privacy reasons information about some aircraft is
> limited or blocked. This includes most military aircraft and certain
> high profile aircraft, like Air Force One."

OK, so it’s going to have a transponder for ATC use but FlightRadar won’t
show it. Fair enough.

On the general point of military aircraft being visible to ATC you’re all
probably aware of this: <https://youtu.be/8AyHH9G9et0>.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

In message <s9qd35$n1q$2@dont-email.me>, at 13:44:50 on Wed, 9 Jun 2021,
MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 09/06/2021 12:07, Roland Perry wrote:
>> Anyway, from their website:
>> "For security and privacy reasons information about some aircraft is
>> limited or blocked. This includes most military aircraft and certain
>> high profile aircraft, like Air Force One."
>
>But is that filtering by FlightRadar or do they have their transponders
>off? Don't forget that Air Traffic Control seem to now rely completely
>on secondary radar.

You need to ask FlightRadar (and its fans).
--
Roland Perry

In message <s9qcqu$n1q$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:40:27 on Wed, 9 Jun 2021,
MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>On 09/06/2021 11:01, Roland Perry wrote:

>> If you don't know when "around the time is", how does that help? Or are
>> we supposed to stare at it all day, on the off chance.
>
>Is there not a NOTAM? Or is it all secret?

All we know is they are supposed to be leaving Washington "this
morning". As I type it's a quarter to ten local time there.

Perhaps you need to look at FlightRadar (etc) to see if you can detect
it taking off. The add perhaps seven hours.
--
Roland Perry

On 09/06/2021 14:45, Roland Perry wrote:
> You need to ask FlightRadar (and its fans).

Much easier when you have your own receiver but unfortunately Cornwall
is a bit to far away.

I was just looking and expected there is a NOTAM with temporary
restrictions around Carbis Bay.

Reports on social media suggest that the President and the First Lady
will touch down at Mildenhall at approximately 8pm this evening.

On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 15:04:51 +0100
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>Reports on social media suggest that the President and the First Lady
>will touch down at Mildenhall at approximately 8pm this evening.

Wasn't Mildenhall due to close a few years back?

MB <MB@nospam.net> writes:

> On 09/06/2021 14:45, Roland Perry wrote:
>> You need to ask FlightRadar (and its fans).
>
>
> Much easier when you have your own receiver but unfortunately Cornwall
> is a bit to far away.
>
> I was just looking and expected there is a NOTAM with temporary
> restrictions around Carbis Bay.

I see three NOTAMs around Carbis Bay: 6-9th June, 9-13th June and one
for 10th June 13:00-18:00 (BST). None fits a presidential arrival today.

Meanwhile, there's one for a restricted area with 10 nautical miles
radius from Mildenhall today, 9th June 19:30-22:30 (BST).

-

Additionally, and cutting out the uncertainty of tracking, the White
House says "President Biden and The First Lady will Deliver Remarks" at
Mildenhall at 15:45 ET (20:45 BST).

ObRail: In an aside this morning, a BBC Breakfast reporter said that the
railway was [going to be?] closed at Carbis Bay. I haven't done my
homework on that.

--
David

In message <MN2Ky8y0aMwgFAKa@perry.uk>, at 14:48:36 on Wed, 9 Jun 2021,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>In message <s9qcqu$n1q$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:40:27 on Wed, 9 Jun
>2021, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>On 09/06/2021 11:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>
>>> If you don't know when "around the time is", how does that help? Or are
>>> we supposed to stare at it all day, on the off chance.
>>
>>Is there not a NOTAM? Or is it all secret?
>
>All we know is they are supposed to be leaving Washington "this
>morning". As I type it's a quarter to ten local time there.
>
>Perhaps you need to look at FlightRadar (etc) to see if you can detect
>it taking off. The add perhaps seven hours.

National press now report 8pm arrival expected.
--
Roland Perry

In message <s9qklh$af3$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 14:53:38 on Wed, 9 Jun
2021, MrSpook_ou_y@30i03opb87jdfcp0nivn6k.tv remarked:
>On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 15:04:51 +0100
>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>>Reports on social media suggest that the President and the First Lady
>>will touch down at Mildenhall at approximately 8pm this evening.
>
>Wasn't Mildenhall due to close a few years back?

It's had rumours of closure for perhaps 20yrs, but is currently still
going strong.
--
Roland Perry

"MB" <MB@nospam.net> wrote in message news:s9oegc$vjq$1@dont-email.me...
> On 08/06/2021 18:14, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>> Rail for the US President over that distance? It'll never happen,
>>>> sorry to say.
>>> This is Amtrak Joe we're talking about, perhaps he'll do things
>>> differently.
>>>
>>> Robin
>>>
>> I don't think that this is up to him, much as he personally might like
>> that.
>
> They would probably have to have hundreds (or more) of security along the
> route. Probably also close all the stations, road crossings and bridges!

I'm also not sure he's that much of a train fan - I think it was more
necessity.

The easiest way of managing the commute and being home for his kids every
night, given he was a single Dad after his first wife died.

James

On 08/06/2021 21:44, James Heaton wrote:
>
> "MB" <MB@nospam.net> wrote in message news:s9oegc$vjq$1@dont-email.me...
>> On 08/06/2021 18:14, hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
>>>>> Rail for the US President over that distance? It'll never happen,
>>>>> sorry to say.
>>>> This is Amtrak Joe we're talking about, perhaps he'll do things
>>>> differently.
>>>>
>>>> Robin
>>>>
>>> I don't think that this is up to him, much as he personally might like
>>> that.
>>
>> They would probably have to have hundreds (or more) of security along
>> the route.  Probably also close all the stations, road crossings and
>> bridges!
>
> I'm also not sure he's that much of a train fan - I think it was more
> necessity.
>
> The easiest way of managing the commute and being home for his kids
> every night, given he was a single Dad after his first wife died.
>
> James

I think that he actually does like trains, though I am not 100% certain.

In any event, Amtrak and passenger rail do stand to benefit under his
administration.

On 09/06/2021 09:15, Recliner wrote:
> Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
>> On 09/06/2021 08:40, MB wrote:
>>> On 08/06/2021 22:39, Graham Harrison wrote:
>>>> I gather Biden is arriving tomorrow into Mildenhall to meet BoJo on
>>>> Thursday.
>>>
>>> You should be able to get an idea by watching FlightRadar around the
>>> time that JoBi's aircraft is due.
>>
>> I hope he gets the same welcome Kamala got in Guatemala
>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3U0VQzWUAE6aBw?format=jpg
>>
>
> Why? Do you think people are deluded here as well?
>
> I don't suppose most Brits have strong views on Biden, or know much about
> him. He says sensible things, but is a poor orator.

He has struggled with a studder.

MB <MB@nospam.net> writes:

> Reports on social media suggest that the President and the First Lady
> will touch down at Mildenhall at approximately 8pm this evening.

Air Force One (AF1) hasjust crossed the Severn at 31000 feet, not
shown by FlightRadar24. The B Ark (callsign SAM46, shown live by
FR24) with some of the party has just landed at Mildenhall and
will likely not be in the FR24 history.

--
David

In message <87mtryj45d.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>, at 19:15:26 on Wed, 9 Jun 2021,
David Williams <davidw_3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>MB <MB@nospam.net> writes:
>
>> Reports on social media suggest that the President and the First Lady
>> will touch down at Mildenhall at approximately 8pm this evening.
>
>Air Force One (AF1) hasjust crossed the Severn at 31000 feet, not
>shown by FlightRadar24. The B Ark (callsign SAM46, shown live by
>FR24) with some of the party has just landed at Mildenhall and
>will likely not be in the FR24 history.

I saw SAM46 on the FR website. 18.15 but it's a bit opaque whether
that's UTC or BST.
--
Roland Perry

In message <gD5hBP6J6QwgFAPk@perry.uk>, at 19:55:05 on Wed, 9 Jun 2021,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>In message <87mtryj45d.fsf@yahoo.co.uk>, at 19:15:26 on Wed, 9 Jun
>2021, David Williams <davidw_3@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>MB <MB@nospam.net> writes:
>>
>>> Reports on social media suggest that the President and the First Lady
>>> will touch down at Mildenhall at approximately 8pm this evening.
>>
>>Air Force One (AF1) hasjust crossed the Severn at 31000 feet, not
>>shown by FlightRadar24. The B Ark (callsign SAM46, shown live by
>>FR24) with some of the party has just landed at Mildenhall and
>>will likely not be in the FR24 history.
>
>I saw SAM46 on the FR website. 18.15 but it's a bit opaque whether
>that's UTC or BST.

CSPAN currently claiming they'll have a live speech on landing, at
8.20pm [UK BST].
--
Roland Perry

In message <xqo1bPwOLLwgFAfZ@perry.uk>, at 13:23:42 on Wed, 9 Jun 2021,
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>In message <s9q8e4$1v37$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 11:24:52 on Wed, 9 Jun
>2021, MrSpook_eZk@rb197o.co.uk remarked:
>
>>>>What are the odds that AF1 has a transponder that can be seen on
>>>>FlightRadar?
>>>>Pretty slim I should think - its military.
>>>
>>>I was trying not to go down that rathole. I did see that some
>>>refuelling tankers from Mildenhall were flying around on FlightRadar
>>>this morning.
>>>
>>>Anyway, from their website:
>>>
>>>"For security and privacy reasons information about some aircraft is
>>>limited or blocked. This includes most military aircraft and certain
>>>high profile aircraft, like Air Force One."
>>
>>I wonder if they extend the same curtesy to the Boris Biplane. Or whatever
>>spare jet they can rustle up from the RAF pool.
>
>It was mentioned this morning on the news that he was flying to
>Cornwall, but they didn't say using what aircraft.
>
>Ahead of him completing yet another vanity project for a Royal Yacht
>mk2, in the mean time it's reported he has an RAF Voyager [A330 in
>drag] at his disposal (the paint job at £900k being slightly less than
>his Downing St wallpaper).

Now reported as:

"Boris Johnson has flown to Cornwall by private jet to discuss
tackling climate change with world leaders.

The Prime Minister gave a thumbs up as he posed for photographs
on the steps of his private jet, after landing at Newquay
airport - around 400km from London.

Mr Johnson made the 35-minute journey on 200-seat chartered
Airbus A321.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <s9q7d0$1eme$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 11:07:12 on Wed, 9 Jun
> 2021, MrSpook_kl2bniF8dn@bvf.gov.uk remarked:
>
>>> Certainly some military aircraft appear on FlightRadar, for instance
>>> RAZOR011 as I write, but I would expect it would be a requirement for using
>>> airspace that’s controlled by civil ATC and mixing with civilian flights.
>>
>> Possibly, but I suspect AF1 is a special case and other air traffic will be
>> held out of its way while it lands at Northolt. Allowing it to be seen on
>> FR would be an invite to any terrorist who could get hold of a SAM.
>
> IF AF1 lands at Northolt, he'll have been looking at the stuff painted
> on the top of the wrong gasometer!
>
> "On October 25th 1960 a Pan American (Pan-Am) Boing 707 jet with
> 41 passengers and crew on board landed at RAF Northolt by
> mistake!
>
> The approaches to Heathrow and Northolt were similar in that
> each approach, when heading over London, had before them and
> very large and similar in appearance gasometers. The pilot is
> seems saw the gasometer and then beyond it the runway and assume
> it was Heathrow, when the gasometer was in Harrow. The Heathrow
> approach has a gasometer in Hounslow.
>
> In order to try to prevent the same thing happening again on the
> Harrow gasometer it large letters the letters NO (for Northolt)
> were painted on it and on the one in Houslow LH (for Heathrow)."
>
> Although Mildenhall is rather further away in the wrong direction.

Neither gasometer exists any more, so no mistakes.

The LH one was Southall rather than Hounslow.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Basil Jet <basil@spamspamspam.com> wrote:
> On 09/06/2021 10:57, Recliner wrote:
>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 09/06/2021 09:06, Basil Jet wrote:
>>>> I hope he gets the same welcome Kamala got in Guatemala
>>>> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E3U0VQzWUAE6aBw?format=jpg
>>>
>>> Nice one!
>>>
>>
>> I wonder how much the GOP paid them to carry those banners?
>
> Would the GOP produce a grammatically incorrect banner?
>

More than likely. After all, Trump's GOP is proudly the party that loves
the poorly educated. Not having a university degree was one of best
indicators of Trump voters.

<MrSpook_kl2bniF8dn@bvf.gov.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 10:48:43 -0000 (UTC)
> Sam Wilson <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> <MrSpook_58xo1ri9z@pb08od05yr_gbg9nz.biz> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 9 Jun 2021 11:01:22 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <s9pr89$kam$2@dont-email.me>, at 08:40:23 on Wed, 9 Jun 2021,
>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>> On 08/06/2021 22:39, Graham Harrison wrote:
>>>>>> I gather Biden is arriving tomorrow into Mildenhall to meet BoJo on
>>>>>> Thursday.
>>>>>
>>>>> You should be able to get an idea by watching FlightRadar around the
>>>>> time that JoBi's aircraft is due.
>>>>
>>>> If you don't know when "around the time is", how does that help? Or are
>>>> we supposed to stare at it all day, on the off chance.
>>>
>>> What are the odds that AF1 has a transponder that can be seen on FlightRadar?
>>
>>> Pretty slim I should think - its military.
>>
>> Certainly some military aircraft appear on FlightRadar, for instance
>> RAZOR011 as I write, but I would expect it would be a requirement for using
>> airspace that’s controlled by civil ATC and mixing with civilian flights.
>
> Possibly, but I suspect AF1 is a special case and other air traffic will be
> held out of its way while it lands at Northolt. Allowing it to be seen on
> FR would be an invite to any terrorist who could get hold of a SAM.
>

They may be getting on a but, but the current VC-25As are not scheduled for
retirement this week.