On 08/12/2022 10:23, Penny wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 08:47:51 +0000, John Armstrong <jja@blueyonder.co.uk> a
> gribouillé dans la poussière...
>
>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 00:30:52 +0000, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I'm wondering how either the café or the pub are going to fare as warm
>>> places for the community in the medium term or long term. Commercial
>>> premises don't have the same protections in terms of an energy price
>>> cap as domestic users and back in West Yorkshire, local newspapers are
>>> writing about similar premises where the energy costs used to be
>>> something like 4-7k per year but which are soaring to figures around
>>> ten times that amount. Will either business be able to afford to stay
>>> open?
>>>
>>> Nick
>>
>> Is it not time the local church stepped in to provide some warm space,
>> as many churches, certainly in Scotland, are doing?
>>
>> Alan Franks, please speak!
>
> Is church heating up to it?
> I recall having a meeting with the Deacon and our dreadful vicar in the
> church one March day - it was freezing in there!

The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
outside temperature.
As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
s paces above the nave.
Mike Ruddock

On 08/12/2022 12:14, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>
> The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
> outside temperature.
> As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
> s paces above the nave.

I occasionally watch those "we'll find you a house" programmes on the TV
and am always amazed how many people are ecstatic about high ceilings.
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

Jenny M Benson <NemoNews@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 12:14, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>>
>> The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
>> outside temperature.
>> As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
>> s paces above the nave.
>
> I occasionally watch those "we'll find you a house" programmes on the TV
> and am always amazed how many people are ecstatic about high ceilings.

My elder sister rented an upstairs flat in the market place of a Somerset
town in the 60’s; it had huge windows and I think clouds could have formed
below the ceiling - that place was a real bu**er to heat!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On 08-Dec-22 12:14, Mike Ruddock wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 10:23, Penny wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 08:47:51 +0000, John Armstrong
>> <jja@blueyonder.co.uk> a
>> gribouillé dans la poussière...
>>
>>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 00:30:52 +0000, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm wondering how either the café or the pub are going to fare as warm
>>>> places for the community in the medium term or long term. Commercial
>>>> premises don't have the same protections in terms of an energy price
>>>> cap as domestic users and back in West Yorkshire, local newspapers are
>>>> writing about similar premises where the energy costs used to be
>>>> something like 4-7k per year but which are soaring to figures around
>>>> ten times that amount. Will either business be able to afford to stay
>>>> open?
>>>>
>>>> Nick
>>>
>>> Is it not time the local church stepped in to provide some warm space,
>>> as many churches, certainly in Scotland, are doing?
>>>
>>> Alan Franks, please speak!
>>
>> Is church heating up to it?
>> I recall having a meeting with the Deacon and our dreadful vicar in the
>> church one March day - it was freezing in there!
>
> The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
> outside temperature.
> As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
> s paces above the nave.

There must be a market to supply churches with a plastic 'bubble' - like
a farmer's poly-tunnel - to make a heatable space within an un-heatable
church.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 20:05:29 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> a gribouillé
dans la poussière...
>On 08-Dec-22 12:14, Mike Ruddock wrote:

>> The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
>> outside temperature.
>> As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
>> s paces above the nave.
>
>There must be a market to supply churches with a plastic 'bubble' - like
>a farmer's poly-tunnel - to make a heatable space within an un-heatable
>church.

It would really mess with the acoustics though.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On 08/12/2022 12:14, Mike Ruddock wrote:
<snip>

> The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
> outside temperature.
> As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
> s paces above the nave.
> Mike Ruddock

So much space that all the germs are diluted, and so cold that
everyone's face is covered anyway. Very safe.

--
Cheers
Clive

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 20:05:29 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

>On 08-Dec-22 12:14, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>> On 08/12/2022 10:23, Penny wrote:
>>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 08:47:51 +0000, John Armstrong
>>> <jja@blueyonder.co.uk> a
>>> gribouillé dans la poussière...
>>>
>>>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 00:30:52 +0000, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm wondering how either the café or the pub are going to fare as warm
>>>>> places for the community in the medium term or long term. Commercial
>>>>> premises don't have the same protections in terms of an energy price
>>>>> cap as domestic users and back in West Yorkshire, local newspapers are
>>>>> writing about similar premises where the energy costs used to be
>>>>> something like 4-7k per year but which are soaring to figures around
>>>>> ten times that amount. Will either business be able to afford to stay
>>>>> open?
>>>>>
>>>>> Nick
>>>>
>>>> Is it not time the local church stepped in to provide some warm space,
>>>> as many churches, certainly in Scotland, are doing?
>>>>
>>>> Alan Franks, please speak!
>>>
>>> Is church heating up to it?
>>> I recall having a meeting with the Deacon and our dreadful vicar in the
>>> church one March day - it was freezing in there!
>>
>> The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
>> outside temperature.
>> As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
>> s paces above the nave.
>
>There must be a market to supply churches with a plastic 'bubble' - like
>a farmer's poly-tunnel - to make a heatable space within an un-heatable
>church.

One local chapel[1] has something like a suspended ceiling at
balcony[2] height. In winter translucent panels are put in place and
then they only use the downstairs pews.

Nick
[1]Local to Huddersfield, not to here
[2]Built during one or other of the revivals it had a ground floor and
a balcony to pack in as many worshipers as possible. These days they
could probably strip out all but two or three rows of pwes and still
have too many seats.

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 23:55:53 +0000, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

>On 08/12/2022 12:14, Mike Ruddock wrote:
><snip>
>
>> The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
>> outside temperature.
>> As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
>> s paces above the nave.
>> Mike Ruddock
>
>So much space that all the germs are diluted, and so cold that
>everyone's face is covered anyway. Very safe.

When I was a child in North London we wore our school scarves wrapped
over our faces in winter because of the smog. A bit like the masks in
the last two years. Kept us warm too but moisture did build up inside.

Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 20:05:29 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> a gribouillé
> dans la poussière...
>> On 08-Dec-22 12:14, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>
>>> The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
>>> outside temperature.
>>> As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
>>> s paces above the nave.
>>
>> There must be a market to supply churches with a plastic 'bubble' - like
>> a farmer's poly-tunnel - to make a heatable space within an un-heatable
>> church.
>
> It would really mess with the acoustics though.

Mrs. McToodles said ‘I Do’ to all the assembled throng and I on 10th. July
1976 in St. Giles in Reading, Southampton Street, Reading; that summer had
been the hottest known for many a year and no appreciable rain for 3
months. Well it was ‘ot outside but still blissfully cold in the church.
Mine Dew, the vicar’s garden where we had many photos taken whilst standing
on the grass made it look like we had assembled in the Sahara!

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 09:25:15 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:

>John Armstrong <jja@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 00:30:52 +0000, Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I'm wondering how either the café or the pub are going to fare as warm
>>> places for the community in the medium term or long term. Commercial
>>> premises don't have the same protections in terms of an energy price
>>> cap as domestic users and back in West Yorkshire, local newspapers are
>>> writing about similar premises where the energy costs used to be
>>> something like 4-7k per year but which are soaring to figures around
>>> ten times that amount. Will either business be able to afford to stay
>>> open?
>>>
>>> Nick
>>
>> Is it not time the local church stepped in to provide some warm space,
>> as many churches, certainly in Scotland, are doing?
>>
>> Alan Franks, please speak!
>>
>
>Mine Dew, churches themselves tend to be the least efficient buildings to
>keep warm due to their volume and most of that being well above useable
>height; I imagine commandeering the Village Hall or any similar buildings
>would be a more suitable venue - Alan might care to round up some
>volunteers and use the hall.

Yes, that's a very good point. I should have been clearer. When I said
"church", I meant the establishment, not the main building used for
Sunday worship. My own church uses a smaller room (even our hall's too
big!) as its "warm space", as it's much easier to heat.

On 09/12/2022 08:37, Mike McMillan wrote:
> Mrs. McToodles said ‘I Do’ to all the assembled throng and I on 10th. July
> 1976 in St. Giles in Reading, Southampton Street, Reading; that summer had
> been the hottest known for many a year and no appreciable rain for 3
> months. Well it was ‘ot outside but still blissfully cold in the church.
> Mine Dew, the vicar’s garden where we had many photos taken whilst standing
> on the grass made it look like we had assembled in the Sahara!

And while you were doing that I was imitating Julius Caesar's mother (if
you believe the legend)! I do indeed remember the heat that Summer but
can't say I was particularly thinking about it that day.

--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/12/2022 12:14, Mike Ruddock wrote:
> <snip>
>
>> The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
>> outside temperature.
>> As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
>> s paces above the nave.
>> Mike Ruddock
>
> So much space that all the germs are diluted, and so cold that
> everyone's face is covered anyway. Very safe.
>

Some old churches have been modernised in recent decades and are very
comfortable. One that springs to mind is our Minster church. Lots of
churches have made an income from becoming secular places to give concerts.
In fact, on Saturday I’m going to a concert in a church in town I’ve never
been in (St Mary’s Castle St) was closed up for many years. The following
Sat is a concert in the Minster. I certainly wouldn’t go if it were the
icy cold church it used to be as all historic churches have been.

Mrs McT

Mike McMillan <toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:
> Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 20:05:29 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> a gribouillé
>> dans la poussière...
>>> On 08-Dec-22 12:14, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>>
>>>> The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
>>>> outside temperature.
>>>> As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
>>>> s paces above the nave.
>>>
>>> There must be a market to supply churches with a plastic 'bubble' - like
>>> a farmer's poly-tunnel - to make a heatable space within an un-heatable
>>> church.
>>
>> It would really mess with the acoustics though.
>
> Mrs. McToodles said ‘I Do’ to all the assembled throng and I on 10th. July
> 1976 in St. Giles in Reading, Southampton Street, Reading; that summer had
> been the hottest known for many a year and no appreciable rain for 3
> months. Well it was ‘ot outside but still blissfully cold in the church.
> Mine Dew, the vicar’s garden where we had many photos taken whilst standing
> on the grass made it look like we had assembled in the Sahara!
>

Ah. Not been to a concert there for many years but it’s been totally
redesigned inside: even the organ has moved from beside the altar to the
back of the church and is positioned close to the ceiling so the organist
climbs a flight of very solid steps. Really doesn’t look like the church
my grandparents and I knew.

Mrs McT

On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 08:37:43 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan
<toodle.pip1@virginmedia.com> wrote:

>Penny <spam@labyrinth.freeuk.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 20:05:29 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> a gribouillé
>> dans la poussière...
>>> On 08-Dec-22 12:14, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>>
>>>> The church I commonly attend is regularly colder inside than the ambient
>>>> outside temperature.
>>>> As has been said: they are not easy places to heat usually having lofty
>>>> s paces above the nave.
>>>
>>> There must be a market to supply churches with a plastic 'bubble' - like
>>> a farmer's poly-tunnel - to make a heatable space within an un-heatable
>>> church.
>>
>> It would really mess with the acoustics though.
>
>Mrs. McToodles said ‘I Do’ to all the assembled throng and I on 10th. July
>1976 in St. Giles in Reading, Southampton Street, Reading; that summer had
>been the hottest known for many a year and no appreciable rain for 3
>months. Well it was ‘ot outside but still blissfully cold in the church.
>Mine Dew, the vicar’s garden where we had many photos taken whilst standing
>on the grass made it look like we had assembled in the Sahara!

This reminds me of the ice houses attached to Hampton Court Palace.
When I were nobbut a knee-high, my parents would take me out to the
Royal Parks and explain how the ice that was shovelled into those
round buildings would last all through the summer thanks to their
massive walls.

In Córdoba city last week the daytime temperatures were regularly
between about 36 and 40 yet the interiors of the cathedral, the Jesuit
college and the other buildings which had been constructed in those
times stayed blissfully cool. They knew how to build 'em in those
days, no?

Nick

Each person in a space will emit around 100-150 watts so the answer is to get enough people to come. It's probably helps explain why Victorian churches that are now impossibly cold were OK 150 years ago - people dressed appropriately and there were a lot more of them.

MelbTony <tonybryermelb@gmail.com> wrote:
> Each person in a space will emit around 100-150 watts so the answer is to
> get enough people to come. It's probably helps explain why Victorian
> churches that are now impossibly cold were OK 150 years ago - people
> dressed appropriately and there were a lot more of them.
>

Today’s Bunny Mox (12:02 R4) is about warm spaces.
THBAPSA

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan