On 02/03/2023 18:53, Mike McMillan wrote:
> John Finlay <chemistman@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On 02/03/2023 17:50, Penny wrote:
>>> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 16:24:16 +0000, Mike Ruddock <ruddock117@btinternet.com>
>>> a gribouillé dans la poussière...
>>>
>>>> Two of these were single sided, and about 3mm thick, the non-recorded
>>>> suide had a picture of a cherub moulded into the surface. Part of the
>>>> trademark of the company I think (HMV?)
>>>
>>> HMV was (is?) the little dog 'Nipper' listening to a record on a horned
>>> gramophone - His Master's Voice. The original painting was used by RCA
>>> Victor in their advertising.
>>>
>>> Gramophone & Typewriter (also related to Victor) had a 'Recording Angel'
>>> trademark, a small angel sitting on a disc making the groove with a large
>>> feather - or thorn.
>>
>> WRT the HMV logo - only a small portion of the original paining was
>> used. If you see the full picture, it is evident that both the
>> gramophone and dog were sitting on "his master's coffin".
>>
>
> Would have been a grave error had they stayed there…
>

Or a burning injustice.

john

On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 18:32:00 +0000, John Finlay <chemistman@hotmail.com> a
gribouillé dans la poussière...

>On 02/03/2023 17:50, Penny wrote:
>> On Thu, 2 Mar 2023 16:24:16 +0000, Mike Ruddock <ruddock117@btinternet.com>
>> a gribouillé dans la poussière...
>>
>>> Two of these were single sided, and about 3mm thick, the non-recorded
>>> suide had a picture of a cherub moulded into the surface. Part of the
>>> trademark of the company I think (HMV?)
>>
>> HMV was (is?) the little dog 'Nipper' listening to a record on a horned
>> gramophone - His Master's Voice. The original painting was used by RCA
>> Victor in their advertising.
>>
>> Gramophone & Typewriter (also related to Victor) had a 'Recording Angel'
>> trademark, a small angel sitting on a disc making the groove with a large
>> feather - or thorn.
>
>WRT the HMV logo - only a small portion of the original paining was
>used. If you see the full picture, it is evident that both the
>gramophone and dog were sitting on "his master's coffin".

That's why he looks puzzled.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

On 02-Mar-23 14:40, Steve Hague wrote:
>
>>>
>>
>> Yes indeed, I never heard a good word spoken for the auto changer disc
>> wreckers. It is bad enough hearing the (much used) BBC (Buzzzz…
>> repetition!!!) sound effect of a stylus ripping across the surface of the
>> record groove*!
>>
>> *Usually, there is just the one groove per side though I did know an
>> engineer who made disc cutting lathes and also mastered discs. One of his
>> specialities was producing multigroove discs for specialist applications;
>> one of which was to produce discs with ‘horse racing commentaries’ on
>> them.
>> There were three or more (different) commentaries that start in a similar
>> fashion but then start to vary - each with different outcomes. Deep
>> ending
>> on where the stylus was lowered onto the disc, it might pick up on any of
>> the grooves; bets were laid before stylus was lowered…
>>
> Stylus? Luxury. We had to make do with a needle, and make sure it didn't
> come off the wax cylinder. That bit in Stairway to Heaven where it
> suddenly got louder needed a steady hand and no mistake.

Did you try it with a needle held between your teeth?

Bone conduction. The ultimate in high fidelity.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 02-Mar-23 17:05, Mike McMillan wrote:
> Mike Ruddock <ruddock117@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> On 02/03/2023 13:17, Penny wrote:
>>> On Thu, 02 Mar 2023 08:44:21 +0000, John Armstrong <jja@blueyonder.co.uk> a
>>> gribouillé dans la poussière...
>>>
>>>> "Auto-coupled" was the technical term. Very common when symphonies and
>>>> other long works were issued on 78 RPM records.
>>>
>>> I still have some 78s - mostly music hall songs by 'the man in the velvet
>>> suit', which came with a lovely HMV wind up gramophone with a red metal
>>> horn, from a jumble sale (2/6) - which may* include a set of such discs,
>>> part of a film soundtrack IIRC, which covered an odd number of sides, so
>>> one side of one disc is effectively blank, though it had some pattern on
>>> it, maybe to make it more obviously not to be played.
>>>
>>> *I did downsize the collection at some point and CBA to dig them out to
>>> check.
>>
>> When I was a lad my older sister bought a wind-up gramophone from a
>> second-hand shop. With it came some records.
>> Two of these were single sided, and about 3mm thick, the non-recorded
>> suide had a picture of a cherub moulded into the surface. Part of the
>> trademark of the company I think (HMV?)
>> Those two records were of G&S songs, one being "I am the Captain of the
>> Pinafore" and I think were recorded by members of thed original D'Oyley
>> Carte company.
>>
>> Mike Ruddock
>>
>
> Three Millimetres thick???!!!! They don’t make discs like that anymore!
>
I never took any measurements, but them shellac records were thick and
bliddy heavy.

Aha! Found this on the interwebs:

"In designing a storage solution for my 78s, I was wondering what the
typical weight and thickness of 10" shellac discs is. Using a sampling
of 34 discs, I summed their stack weight and total weight, then divided
by the quantity to obtain an average value. I'm posting the information
here for my own future reference, and in case anyone else might make use
of it.

Weight = 0.45lb (0.2kg) each
Thickness = 0.1" (2.5mm) each"

So "About 3mm" is a fair approximation for 2.5mm.

Mr Ruddock's memory is evidently in pretty fair nick.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Thu, 02 Mar 2023 08:44:21 +0000, John Armstrong
<jja@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 11:17:21 +0000, Philip Hole
><news@theholefamily.org> wrote:
>
>
>>In my youth I became besotted by G&S.
>>
>>So I saved up to start a collection. [My father had bought a record player.]
>>
>>I had enough money for one LP so ventured into a record shop and looked
>>for my favourite - Mikado.
>>
>>The shop had two copies and I bought one.
>>
>>I was eager to play it when I got home so set everything up.
>>
>>Played one side. Lovely. Turned it over and discovered that this was
>>side 4 ? So where was '2' and '3'?
>>
>>My father explained...
>>
>>... the player had a long central spindle with a mechanical device near
>>the top. Loading a stack of disks on the spindle resulted in the stack
>>sitting on top of the device.
>>
>>Start playing and the device dropped one disk onto the turntable and
>>began to play it. When it had finished playing the head returned to the
>>start, another disk dropped and played.
>>
>>This continued until all the disks had dropped and been played.
>>
>>And where was '2' and '3'?
>>
>>For long LPs, such as an opera, they were on two LPs.
>>
>>These two were loaded with side 4 on the bottom and side 1 on the top
>>side. Above this was the second disk with side 3 facing down and side 2
>>on the top.
>>
>>Playing this resulted playing side 1 then side 2.
>>
>>Lift the two disks, turn them over, reload them on the spindle and play
>>side 3 then side 4 plays.
>>
>>Simple. And fun.
>>
>>And 'No' - I never went back for the other LP; presumably sides 2 and 3 :-(
>
>"Auto-coupled" was the technical term. Very common when symphonies and
>other long works were issued on 78 RPM records.
>
>I have one auto-coupled recording in my collection - Tommy, the rock
>opera by The Who. It was originally issued on two LPs. I didn't have
>an auto-changer to make use of it. Then again, using auto-changers
>with vinyl was a very bad idea.

I think the theory was that the quick, flat drop would trap a cushion
of air between the disk faces and that the top disk would settle
gently onto the bottom disk as the air was squuezed out from the
edges.

Nick

On 03/03/2023 15:02, Nick Odell wrote:
> On Thu, 02 Mar 2023 08:44:21 +0000, John Armstrong
> <jja@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 1 Mar 2023 11:17:21 +0000, Philip Hole
>> <news@theholefamily.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> In my youth I became besotted by G&S.
>>>
>>> So I saved up to start a collection. [My father had bought a record player.]
>>>
>>> I had enough money for one LP so ventured into a record shop and looked
>>> for my favourite - Mikado.
>>>
>>> The shop had two copies and I bought one.
>>>
>>> I was eager to play it when I got home so set everything up.
>>>
>>> Played one side. Lovely. Turned it over and discovered that this was
>>> side 4 ? So where was '2' and '3'?
>>>
>>> My father explained...
>>>
>>> ... the player had a long central spindle with a mechanical device near
>>> the top. Loading a stack of disks on the spindle resulted in the stack
>>> sitting on top of the device.
>>>
>>> Start playing and the device dropped one disk onto the turntable and
>>> began to play it. When it had finished playing the head returned to the
>>> start, another disk dropped and played.
>>>
>>> This continued until all the disks had dropped and been played.
>>>
>>> And where was '2' and '3'?
>>>
>>> For long LPs, such as an opera, they were on two LPs.
>>>
>>> These two were loaded with side 4 on the bottom and side 1 on the top
>>> side. Above this was the second disk with side 3 facing down and side 2
>>> on the top.
>>>
>>> Playing this resulted playing side 1 then side 2.
>>>
>>> Lift the two disks, turn them over, reload them on the spindle and play
>>> side 3 then side 4 plays.
>>>
>>> Simple. And fun.
>>>
>>> And 'No' - I never went back for the other LP; presumably sides 2 and 3 :-(
>>
>> "Auto-coupled" was the technical term. Very common when symphonies and
>> other long works were issued on 78 RPM records.
>>
>> I have one auto-coupled recording in my collection - Tommy, the rock
>> opera by The Who. It was originally issued on two LPs. I didn't have
>> an auto-changer to make use of it. Then again, using auto-changers
>> with vinyl was a very bad idea.
>
> I think the theory was that the quick, flat drop would trap a cushion
> of air between the disk faces and that the top disk would settle
> gently onto the bottom disk as the air was squuezed out from the
> edges.
>
> Nick

If I recall correctly, 45's had a circle of radial ridges moulded in so
that a stack of them would key into one another on an autochanger and
therefore not slide.