On 2/06/2022 1:35 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 2/06/2022 9:37 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 2/06/2022 10:10 am, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2022 8:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 2/06/2022 8:00 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:34:33 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> **Are you suggesting that you know, without any doubt, that the
>>>>>> car has
>>>>>> never been worked on previously on that component?
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2011_Corolla/69294639__6730963/STARTER/155460-1904.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **A little.
>>>
>>> It doesn't really. It's just a generic exploded drawing, and while
>>> it identifies the key components of your average starter motor it
>>> doesn't relate to this particular one specifically.
>>>
>>>> Obviously, it is difficult to see any detail, but it appears Toyota
>>>> dropped the ball on this issue.
>>>
>>> Only if you consider deliberate cost cutting to be "ball dropping".
>>>
>>> Toyota, like many other manufacturers, make very few of their own
>>> electrical components and instead rely on 3rd party suppliers. In
>>> this case the starter was made by Denso, who have a long history and
>>> connection with Toyota. Toyota would be dictating terms to Denso as
>>> to exactly what they wanted, including the price point they were
>>> prepared to pay per unit. Denso, in response, would be cutting as
>>> many corners as they could to meet that criteria. The result is what
>>> was seen in the pictures.
>>>
>>> As to whether Toyota specifically demanded that the starter be
>>> supplied without a terminal attached to the field coil lead I can't
>>> say one way or the other, but *someone* clearly decided that doing
>>> so was necessary to meet the requirements and Toyota certainly
>>> approved it for use.
>>>
>>> This is the actual starter in position with the original "factory"
>>> label clearly visible:
>>>
>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3TI8
>>>
>>> As can be seen it is the factory original starter, and it is highly
>>> unlikely that it has ever been modified.
>>>
>>> Hey Kryppy. You have a Corolla, right? Take a photo of yours and
>>> post it here so we can see if this is a "one off" or whether Toyota
>>> really is that much of a pack of penny pinching pricks that they
>>> have to resort to bullshit practices like this in order to make
>>> their billions.
>>>
>>
>> you have him blocked so you won't see it dumbass. unless one of your
>> minons 'echos' it for you of course.
>>
>>
>
>
> Toyota don't make that starter and it's a non-issue.
>
> The relevance deprived fraud just wants to show off that he's
> pretending to be a mechanic whilst having a crack at Toyota over a
> non-issue for a non-manufacturer specific design.
>
>
>

yep

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

"So some infantile nonsense and running away again
I see. Your standard MO." -Clocky on Keefy

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 1/6/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota apologists around
> here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share another
> little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>
> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the starter
> that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and she'd been
> quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced which she wasn't
> keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and didn't want to fork
> out on it unless she had to.
>
> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story short
> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion wasn't
> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed issue, and as
> the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to get out
> I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>
> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened grease,
> and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it was put
> back together and back in the car and it's all working as it should.
>
> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>
> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>
> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>
> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but instead of
> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the end of it
> like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the stud and
> jammed in place with the nut.

Um, no it isn't. It seems quite clear that what you are looking at, and
failing to recognise, is a *Flemish eye splice*. That process makes the
wire into a *perfect eyelet*.
>
> Not even with a washer :)

How odd. I can clearly see a washer *on the stud*. As for a washer under
the nut, it will most likely have that *built into the nut* as is the
case with the nut immediately behind the splice.
>
> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other starters
> are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>
> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>
> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>
> A Mitsubishi one:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>
> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>
> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>
>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>
> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.

Crimped terminals are the cheap ones. And the ones more likely to cause
issues long term!
>
> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making their
> cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each Corolla by
> not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.

Well, let's analyse that, shall we. The Flemish eye splice is far from
being a cheap and nasty solution. In fact, it is more involved than
making the same thing with a *crimp connector*. It would involve
significantly more labour cost than a crimped eyelet, that much is
certain. What's more, it is a far more efficacious solution than a
crimped eyelet. Why? Because you are far more likely to get corrosion
build up in the crimp over time.

Now, take a look at that Flemish eyelet splice, see any galvanic
corrosion? See any signs of a poor connection? See any signs of
overheating as a result of a *high resistance* connection? As far as I
can see, the answer would be an emphatic *no* to all the above. In fact,
the connection looks to be as clean and solid as the day it was
installed at the factory. Kudos to Toyota for creating decent design
specifications for the OEM supplier, in this case *Denso*.
>
> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is fantastic?

The Flemish eye splice is a perfect example of Toyota striving for
*reliability*.

> Oh, what a feeling :)

Did that splice cause an issue? No! Does it look likely to cause an
issue in the *next eleven years*? No! So Toyota gets a tick for
*enhanced reliability*.

*Reliability* is what Toyota are noted for Darren.

And *again* Darren shoots himself in the foot!

You're really making a habit of that Darren!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 2/6/2022 3:54 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 2/06/2022 1:26 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 2/06/2022 6:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2022 8:00 am, alvey wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:34:33 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 1/06/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota apologists
>>>>>> around
>>>>>> here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share another
>>>>>> little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
>>>>>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
>>>>>> starter
>>>>>> that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and she'd been
>>>>>> quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced which she
>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>> keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and didn't want to
>>>>>> fork
>>>>>> out on it unless she had to.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story short
>>>>>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion wasn't
>>>>>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed issue,
>>>>>> and as
>>>>>> the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to
>>>>>> get out
>>>>>> I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
>>>>>> grease,
>>>>>> and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it was put
>>>>>> back together and back in the car and it's all working as it should.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but instead of
>>>>>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the end
>>>>>> of it
>>>>>> like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the stud and
>>>>>> jammed in place with the nut.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>>>>>> starters
>>>>>> are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making
>>>>>> their
>>>>>> cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
>>>>>> Corolla by
>>>>>> not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is
>>>>>> fantastic?
>>>>>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **Are you suggesting that you know, without any doubt, that the car
>>>>> has
>>>>> never been worked on previously on that component?
>>>>
>>>> Does this help?
>>>>
>>>> https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2011_Corolla/69294639__6730963/STARTER/155460-1904.html
>>>>
>>>
>>> **A little. Obviously, it is difficult to see any detail, but it
>>> appears Toyota dropped the ball on this issue.
>>
>> What "issue"?
>>
>>
>>
>
> exactly. why assume it's an inferior way of doing it?
>
It isn't an inferior way of doing it and Darren's pics *prove it*.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 2/06/2022 4:34 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 1/6/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota apologists
>> around here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share
>> another little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>
>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
>> starter that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and
>> she'd been quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced
>> which she wasn't keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and
>> didn't want to fork out on it unless she had to.
>>
>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story short
>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion wasn't
>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed issue, and
>> as the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to
>> get out I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>
>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
>> grease, and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it
>> was put back together and back in the car and it's all working as it
>> should.
>>
>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>
>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>
>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>
>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but instead of
>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the end of
>> it like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the stud
>> and jammed in place with the nut.
>
> Um, no it isn't. It seems quite clear that what you are looking at,
> and failing to recognise, is a *Flemish eye splice*. That process
> makes the wire into a *perfect eyelet*.

yes it's quite obvious that the cable has been formed into an eyelet. I
thought that was obvious to all.

>>
>> Not even with a washer :)
>
> How odd. I can clearly see a washer *on the stud*. As for a washer
> under the nut, it will most likely have that *built into the nut* as
> is the case with the nut immediately behind the splice.
>>
>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>> starters are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>
>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>
>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>
>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>
>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>
>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>
>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>
> Crimped terminals are the cheap ones. And the ones more likely to
> cause issues long term!
>>
>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making
>> their cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
>> Corolla by not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>
> Well, let's analyse that, shall we. The Flemish eye splice is far from
> being a cheap and nasty solution. In fact, it is more involved than
> making the same thing with a *crimp connector*. It would involve
> significantly more labour cost than a crimped eyelet, that much is
> certain. What's more, it is a far more efficacious solution than a
> crimped eyelet. Why? Because you are far more likely to get corrosion
> build up in the crimp over time.
>
> Now, take a look at that Flemish eyelet splice, see any galvanic
> corrosion? See any signs of a poor connection? See any signs of
> overheating as a result of a *high resistance* connection? As far as I
> can see, the answer would be an emphatic *no* to all the above. In
> fact, the connection looks to be as clean and solid as the day it was
> installed at the factory. Kudos to Toyota for creating decent design
> specifications for the OEM supplier, in this case *Denso*.

yep. I already made the point that there's less resistance with this
method. and corrosion is avoided as you say.

>>
>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is fantastic?
>
> The Flemish eye splice is a perfect example of Toyota striving for
> *reliability*.
>
>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>
> Did that splice cause an issue? No! Does it look likely to cause an
> issue in the *next eleven years*? No! So Toyota gets a tick for
> *enhanced reliability*.
>
> *Reliability* is what Toyota are noted for Darren.
>
> And *again* Darren shoots himself in the foot!
>
> You're really making a habit of that Darren!
>

LOL

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

"So some infantile nonsense and running away again
I see. Your standard MO." -Clocky on Keefy

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 2/06/2022 4:35 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 2/6/2022 3:54 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 2/06/2022 1:26 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2022 6:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 2/06/2022 8:00 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:34:33 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/06/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota
>>>>>>> apologists around
>>>>>>> here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share another
>>>>>>> little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
>>>>>>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
>>>>>>> starter
>>>>>>> that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and she'd
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced which she
>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>> keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and didn't want
>>>>>>> to fork
>>>>>>> out on it unless she had to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story
>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion
>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed
>>>>>>> issue, and as
>>>>>>> the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to
>>>>>>> get out
>>>>>>> I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
>>>>>>> grease,
>>>>>>> and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it was
>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>> back together and back in the car and it's all working as it
>>>>>>> should.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but
>>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the
>>>>>>> end of it
>>>>>>> like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the
>>>>>>> stud and
>>>>>>> jammed in place with the nut.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>>>>>>> starters
>>>>>>> are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
>>>>>>> Corolla by
>>>>>>> not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is
>>>>>>> fantastic?
>>>>>>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Are you suggesting that you know, without any doubt, that the
>>>>>> car has
>>>>>> never been worked on previously on that component?
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2011_Corolla/69294639__6730963/STARTER/155460-1904.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **A little. Obviously, it is difficult to see any detail, but it
>>>> appears Toyota dropped the ball on this issue.
>>>
>>> What "issue"?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> exactly. why assume it's an inferior way of doing it?
>>
> It isn't an inferior way of doing it and Darren's pics *prove it*.
>

I wasn't suggesting it was

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

"So some infantile nonsense and running away again
I see. Your standard MO." -Clocky on Keefy

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 2/06/2022 4:34 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 1/6/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota apologists
>> around here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share
>> another little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>
>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
>> starter that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and
>> she'd been quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced
>> which she wasn't keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and
>> didn't want to fork out on it unless she had to.
>>
>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story short
>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion wasn't
>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed issue, and
>> as the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to
>> get out I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>
>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
>> grease, and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it
>> was put back together and back in the car and it's all working as it
>> should.
>>
>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>
>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>
>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>
>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but instead of
>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the end of
>> it like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the stud
>> and jammed in place with the nut.
>
> Um, no it isn't. It seems quite clear that what you are looking at,
> and failing to recognise, is a *Flemish eye splice*. That process
> makes the wire into a *perfect eyelet*.
>>
>> Not even with a washer :)
>
> How odd. I can clearly see a washer *on the stud*. As for a washer
> under the nut, it will most likely have that *built into the nut* as
> is the case with the nut immediately behind the splice.
>>
>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>> starters are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>
>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>
>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>
>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>
>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>
>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>
>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>
> Crimped terminals are the cheap ones. And the ones more likely to
> cause issues long term!
>>
>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making
>> their cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
>> Corolla by not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>
> Well, let's analyse that, shall we. The Flemish eye splice is far from
> being a cheap and nasty solution. In fact, it is more involved than
> making the same thing with a *crimp connector*. It would involve
> significantly more labour cost than a crimped eyelet, that much is
> certain. What's more, it is a far more efficacious solution than a
> crimped eyelet. Why? Because you are far more likely to get corrosion
> build up in the crimp over time.
>
> Now, take a look at that Flemish eyelet splice, see any galvanic
> corrosion? See any signs of a poor connection? See any signs of
> overheating as a result of a *high resistance* connection? As far as I
> can see, the answer would be an emphatic *no* to all the above. In
> fact, the connection looks to be as clean and solid as the day it was
> installed at the factory. Kudos to Toyota for creating decent design
> specifications for the OEM supplier, in this case *Denso*.
>>
>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is fantastic?
>
> The Flemish eye splice is a perfect example of Toyota striving for
> *reliability*.
>
>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>
> Did that splice cause an issue? No! Does it look likely to cause an
> issue in the *next eleven years*? No! So Toyota gets a tick for
> *enhanced reliability*.
>
> *Reliability* is what Toyota are noted for Darren.
>
> And *again* Darren shoots himself in the foot!
>
> You're really making a habit of that Darren!
>

hey jonzie echo this for your mentor please..

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

"So some infantile nonsense and running away again
I see. Your standard MO." -Clocky on Keefy

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 2/06/2022 4:34 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 1/6/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota apologists
>> around here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share
>> another little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>
>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
>> starter that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and
>> she'd been quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced
>> which she wasn't keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and
>> didn't want to fork out on it unless she had to.
>>
>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story short
>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion wasn't
>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed issue, and
>> as the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to
>> get out I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>
>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
>> grease, and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it
>> was put back together and back in the car and it's all working as it
>> should.
>>
>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>
>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>
>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>
>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but instead of
>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the end of
>> it like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the stud
>> and jammed in place with the nut.
>
> Um, no it isn't. It seems quite clear that what you are looking at,
> and failing to recognise, is a *Flemish eye splice*. That process
> makes the wire into a *perfect eyelet*.
>>
>> Not even with a washer :)
>
> How odd. I can clearly see a washer *on the stud*. As for a washer
> under the nut, it will most likely have that *built into the nut* as
> is the case with the nut immediately behind the splice.
>>
>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>> starters are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>
>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>
>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>
>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>
>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>
>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>
>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>
> Crimped terminals are the cheap ones. And the ones more likely to
> cause issues long term!
>>
>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making
>> their cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
>> Corolla by not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>
> Well, let's analyse that, shall we. The Flemish eye splice is far from
> being a cheap and nasty solution. In fact, it is more involved than
> making the same thing with a *crimp connector*. It would involve
> significantly more labour cost than a crimped eyelet, that much is
> certain. What's more, it is a far more efficacious solution than a
> crimped eyelet. Why? Because you are far more likely to get corrosion
> build up in the crimp over time.
>
> Now, take a look at that Flemish eyelet splice, see any galvanic
> corrosion? See any signs of a poor connection? See any signs of
> overheating as a result of a *high resistance* connection? As far as I
> can see, the answer would be an emphatic *no* to all the above. In
> fact, the connection looks to be as clean and solid as the day it was
> installed at the factory. Kudos to Toyota for creating decent design
> specifications for the OEM supplier, in this case *Denso*.
>>
>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is fantastic?
>
> The Flemish eye splice is a perfect example of Toyota striving for
> *reliability*.
>
>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>
> Did that splice cause an issue? No! Does it look likely to cause an
> issue in the *next eleven years*? No! So Toyota gets a tick for
> *enhanced reliability*.
>
> *Reliability* is what Toyota are noted for Darren.
>
> And *again* Darren shoots himself in the foot!
>
> You're really making a habit of that Darren!
>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PMIDXWI_2g

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

"So some infantile nonsense and running away again
I see. Your standard MO." -Clocky on Keefy

FUCK PUTIN!!

Yosemite Sam <felix@invalid.com> wrote:
> On 2/06/2022 4:35 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 2/6/2022 3:54 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2022 1:26 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 2/06/2022 6:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 2/06/2022 8:00 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:34:33 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/06/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota
>>>>>>>> apologists around
>>>>>>>> here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share another
>>>>>>>> little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
>>>>>>>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
>>>>>>>> starter
>>>>>>>> that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and she'd
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced which she
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>> keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and didn't want
>>>>>>>> to fork
>>>>>>>> out on it unless she had to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story
>>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed
>>>>>>>> issue, and as
>>>>>>>> the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to
>>>>>>>> get out
>>>>>>>> I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
>>>>>>>> grease,
>>>>>>>> and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it was
>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>> back together and back in the car and it's all working as it
>>>>>>>> should.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but
>>>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>>>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the
>>>>>>>> end of it
>>>>>>>> like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the
>>>>>>>> stud and
>>>>>>>> jammed in place with the nut.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>>>>>>>> starters
>>>>>>>> are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
>>>>>>>> Corolla by
>>>>>>>> not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is
>>>>>>>> fantastic?
>>>>>>>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Are you suggesting that you know, without any doubt, that the
>>>>>>> car has
>>>>>>> never been worked on previously on that component?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2011_Corolla/69294639__6730963/STARTER/155460-1904.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **A little. Obviously, it is difficult to see any detail, but it
>>>>> appears Toyota dropped the ball on this issue.
>>>>
>>>> What "issue"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> exactly. why assume it's an inferior way of doing it?
>>>
>> It isn't an inferior way of doing it and Darren's pics *prove it*.
>>
>
> I wasn't suggesting it was
>

Darren was suggesting it was an inferior way of doing it, even in the
header. He was so so wrong! You might have noticed, he’s wrong a lot and
there’s good reason for that - he’s an idiot!

--
Xeno

On 2/06/2022 2:08 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 2/06/2022 1:35 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 2/06/2022 9:37 am, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2022 10:10 am, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 2/06/2022 8:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 2/06/2022 8:00 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:34:33 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>> **Are you suggesting that you know, without any doubt, that the
>>>>>>> car has
>>>>>>> never been worked on previously on that component?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2011_Corolla/69294639__6730963/STARTER/155460-1904.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **A little.
>>>>
>>>> It doesn't really. It's just a generic exploded drawing, and while
>>>> it identifies the key components of your average starter motor it
>>>> doesn't relate to this particular one specifically.
>>>>
>>>>> Obviously, it is difficult to see any detail, but it appears Toyota
>>>>> dropped the ball on this issue.
>>>>
>>>> Only if you consider deliberate cost cutting to be "ball dropping".
>>>>
>>>> Toyota, like many other manufacturers, make very few of their own
>>>> electrical components and instead rely on 3rd party suppliers. In
>>>> this case the starter was made by Denso, who have a long history and
>>>> connection with Toyota. Toyota would be dictating terms to Denso as
>>>> to exactly what they wanted, including the price point they were
>>>> prepared to pay per unit. Denso, in response, would be cutting as
>>>> many corners as they could to meet that criteria. The result is what
>>>> was seen in the pictures.
>>>>
>>>> As to whether Toyota specifically demanded that the starter be
>>>> supplied without a terminal attached to the field coil lead I can't
>>>> say one way or the other, but *someone* clearly decided that doing
>>>> so was necessary to meet the requirements and Toyota certainly
>>>> approved it for use.
>>>>
>>>> This is the actual starter in position with the original "factory"
>>>> label clearly visible:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3TI8
>>>>
>>>> As can be seen it is the factory original starter, and it is highly
>>>> unlikely that it has ever been modified.
>>>>
>>>> Hey Kryppy. You have a Corolla, right? Take a photo of yours and
>>>> post it here so we can see if this is a "one off" or whether Toyota
>>>> really is that much of a pack of penny pinching pricks that they
>>>> have to resort to bullshit practices like this in order to make
>>>> their billions.
>>>>
>>>
>>> you have him blocked so you won't see it dumbass. unless one of your
>>> minons 'echos' it for you of course.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Toyota don't make that starter and it's a non-issue.
>>
>> The relevance deprived fraud just wants to show off that he's
>> pretending to be a mechanic whilst having a crack at Toyota over a
>> non-issue for a non-manufacturer specific design.
>>
>>
>>
>
> yep
>
>

I should correct myself. Denso, if the manufacturer is owned by the
Toyota group, but Denso are the OEM for other manufacturers. There are
no problems with that design and I'm positive that it is used elsewhere
on other starter motors fitted to other makes.

Just to clarify.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 2/06/2022 2:35 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 2/6/2022 3:54 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>> On 2/06/2022 1:26 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2022 6:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 2/06/2022 8:00 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:34:33 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1/06/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota apologists
>>>>>>> around
>>>>>>> here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share another
>>>>>>> little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
>>>>>>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
>>>>>>> starter
>>>>>>> that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and she'd
>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>> quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced which she
>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>> keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and didn't want to
>>>>>>> fork
>>>>>>> out on it unless she had to.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story
>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion
>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed issue,
>>>>>>> and as
>>>>>>> the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to
>>>>>>> get out
>>>>>>> I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
>>>>>>> grease,
>>>>>>> and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it was put
>>>>>>> back together and back in the car and it's all working as it should.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but
>>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the
>>>>>>> end of it
>>>>>>> like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the stud
>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>> jammed in place with the nut.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>>>>>>> starters
>>>>>>> are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making
>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>> cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
>>>>>>> Corolla by
>>>>>>> not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is
>>>>>>> fantastic?
>>>>>>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Are you suggesting that you know, without any doubt, that the
>>>>>> car has
>>>>>> never been worked on previously on that component?
>>>>>
>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>
>>>>> https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2011_Corolla/69294639__6730963/STARTER/155460-1904.html
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **A little. Obviously, it is difficult to see any detail, but it
>>>> appears Toyota dropped the ball on this issue.
>>>
>>> What "issue"?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> exactly. why assume it's an inferior way of doing it?
>>
> It isn't an inferior way of doing it and Darren's pics *prove it*.
>

It's only an inferior way if he can show that it causes problems and he
can't.

Broken Navara and Pathfinder timing chains were a worldwide quality
issue that severely damaged the brand, as were Ford Powershit
transmissions and worse the way they tried to shaft customers by putting
the blame on them.

But here he is pointing at something that has never caused anyone ever a
problem as "dubious Toyota Quality".

Meanwhile, the cloth seats in my poverty pack Hilux with 345,000 km on
the clock have no tears :-)

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 2/06/2022 2:34 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 1/6/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota apologists
>> around here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share
>> another little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>
>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
>> starter that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and
>> she'd been quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced
>> which she wasn't keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and
>> didn't want to fork out on it unless she had to.
>>
>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story short
>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion wasn't
>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed issue, and
>> as the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to get
>> out I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>
>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
>> grease, and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it
>> was put back together and back in the car and it's all working as it
>> should.
>>
>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>
>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>
>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>
>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but instead of
>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the end of
>> it like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the stud
>> and jammed in place with the nut.
>
> Um, no it isn't. It seems quite clear that what you are looking at, and
> failing to recognise, is a *Flemish eye splice*. That process makes the
> wire into a *perfect eyelet*.
>>
>> Not even with a washer :)
>
> How odd. I can clearly see a washer *on the stud*. As for a washer under
> the nut, it will most likely have that *built into the nut* as is the
> case with the nut immediately behind the splice.
>>
>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>> starters are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>
>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>
>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>
>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>
>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>
>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>
>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>
>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>
> Crimped terminals are the cheap ones. And the ones more likely to cause
> issues long term!
>>
>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making their
>> cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each Corolla
>> by not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>
> Well, let's analyse that, shall we. The Flemish eye splice is far from
> being a cheap and nasty solution. In fact, it is more involved than
> making the same thing with a *crimp connector*. It would involve
> significantly more labour cost than a crimped eyelet, that much is
> certain. What's more, it is a far more efficacious solution than a
> crimped eyelet. Why? Because you are far more likely to get corrosion
> build up in the crimp over time.
>

Indeed, and the crimp on a crimped terminal is another potential cause
of high resistance, corrosion and therefore failure. The Flemish eye
splice removes a potential point of failure out of the equation.

> Now, take a look at that Flemish eyelet splice, see any galvanic
> corrosion? See any signs of a poor connection? See any signs of
> overheating as a result of a *high resistance* connection? As far as I
> can see, the answer would be an emphatic *no* to all the above. In fact,
> the connection looks to be as clean and solid as the day it was
> installed at the factory. Kudos to Toyota for creating decent design
> specifications for the OEM supplier, in this case *Denso*.
>>

Heh, pretty much what I just said.

>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is fantastic?
>
> The Flemish eye splice is a perfect example of Toyota striving for
> *reliability*.
>
>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>
> Did that splice cause an issue? No! Does it look likely to cause an
> issue in the *next eleven years*? No! So Toyota gets a tick for
> *enhanced reliability*.
>
> *Reliability* is what Toyota are noted for Darren.
>
> And *again* Darren shoots himself in the foot!
>
> You're really making a habit of that Darren!
>

He's an incompetent clueless fucking idiot.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 2/6/2022 6:20 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 2/06/2022 2:35 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 2/6/2022 3:54 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2022 1:26 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>> On 2/06/2022 6:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 2/06/2022 8:00 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:34:33 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1/06/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota
>>>>>>>> apologists around
>>>>>>>> here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share another
>>>>>>>> little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
>>>>>>>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
>>>>>>>> starter
>>>>>>>> that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and she'd
>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>> quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced which she
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>> keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and didn't want
>>>>>>>> to fork
>>>>>>>> out on it unless she had to.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story
>>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion
>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed
>>>>>>>> issue, and as
>>>>>>>> the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to
>>>>>>>> get out
>>>>>>>> I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
>>>>>>>> grease,
>>>>>>>> and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it was
>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>> back together and back in the car and it's all working as it
>>>>>>>> should.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but
>>>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>>>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the
>>>>>>>> end of it
>>>>>>>> like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the
>>>>>>>> stud and
>>>>>>>> jammed in place with the nut.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>>>>>>>> starters
>>>>>>>> are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making
>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
>>>>>>>> Corolla by
>>>>>>>> not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is
>>>>>>>> fantastic?
>>>>>>>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Are you suggesting that you know, without any doubt, that the
>>>>>>> car has
>>>>>>> never been worked on previously on that component?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2011_Corolla/69294639__6730963/STARTER/155460-1904.html
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> **A little. Obviously, it is difficult to see any detail, but it
>>>>> appears Toyota dropped the ball on this issue.
>>>>
>>>> What "issue"?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> exactly. why assume it's an inferior way of doing it?
>>>
>> It isn't an inferior way of doing it and Darren's pics *prove it*.
>>
>
> It's only an inferior way if he can show that it causes problems and he
> can't.

Instead, he has pointed out, with his photo, why it is *superior quality*.
>
> Broken Navara and Pathfinder timing chains were a worldwide quality
> issue that severely damaged the brand, as were Ford Powershit
> transmissions and worse the way they tried to shaft customers by putting
> the blame on them.
>
> But here he is pointing at something that has never caused anyone ever a
> problem as "dubious Toyota Quality".

Well, his work on engines definitely ranks as *dubious quality*. On
second thought, and with Les' engine in mind, make that *shit quality*.
>
> Meanwhile, the cloth seats in my poverty pack Hilux with 345,000 km on
> the clock have no tears :-)
>
Jeez, Darren's Navara couldn't manage that, its seats were on the way
out at *70k klm*.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 2/6/2022 11:47 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 2/06/2022 10:39 am, Daryl wrote:
>> On 1/6/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>
>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>
>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but instead of
>>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the end of
>>> it like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the stud
>>> and jammed in place with the nut.
>>>
>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>
>> Rough and cheap as that looks was it actually causing a problem?
>
> Not that I'm aware of. According to the owner this is the first time the
> car's had a starter problem since she bought it new 11 years ago, and
> from what I can tell the problem that developed isn't related to the
> lead connection.
>
> However that doesn't remove the fact that the connection method itself
> is pretty pissweak for a high current application. Most people would be
> reluctant to have their battery leads secured in such a way....
>
>> Only starter that I have here not attached to a car is from a 2005
>> Diahatsu Charade, it has the same "twisted wire" as the Corolla starter.
>> I know it works because I started the engine to test it before
>> removing the engine, couldn't use it because it fits an auto and son's
>> Mira is manual.
>
> Is it a Denso starter by any chance? I wonder if that's their policy.

Yes Denso made in Japan.
>
>> I wonder if it is cheaper to do it that way, twisting the wire into
>> the right shape would take longer and more effort than crimping a
>> terminal so maybe there is another reason?
>
> I can't imagine it would be any more difficult or time consuming to form
> the bare wire into the required shape than it would be to crimp on a
> terminal during the manufacturing process, so the differences in costs
> relating to manufacturing processes would be negligible. However in
> using the bare wire on it's own they are removing the terminal from the
> picture altogether, and the only logical reason I can see why they would
> possibly want to do that would be to reduce the manufacturing costs.
>
> As I said it doesn't seem to have affected the starter operation in any
> way, but it is *still* a cheap and nasty approach to component
> manufacture that doesn't seem to do anything other than add to Toyota's
> bank balance.
>
>

As well as saving the price of the terminal the wire that comes out of
the starter is also short so maybe by doing it that way they save on
terminals and wire, doesn't make much sense to people like us but maybe
it makes sense to Denso who make millions of the things.

--
Daryl

On 2/06/2022 6:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 2/6/2022 11:47 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 2/06/2022 10:39 am, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 1/6/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>>
>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but instead
>>>> of having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the
>>>> end of it like most other starters this one is just wrapped around
>>>> the stud and jammed in place with the nut.
>>>>
>>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>>
>>> Rough and cheap as that looks was it actually causing a problem?
>>
>> Not that I'm aware of. According to the owner this is the first time
>> the car's had a starter problem since she bought it new 11 years ago,
>> and from what I can tell the problem that developed isn't related to
>> the lead connection.
>>
>> However that doesn't remove the fact that the connection method
>> itself is pretty pissweak for a high current application. Most people
>> would be reluctant to have their battery leads secured in such a way....
>>
>>> Only starter that I have here not attached to a car is from a 2005
>>> Diahatsu Charade, it has the same "twisted wire" as the Corolla
>>> starter.
>>> I know it works because I started the engine to test it before
>>> removing the engine, couldn't use it because it fits an auto and
>>> son's Mira is manual.
>>
>> Is it a Denso starter by any chance? I wonder if that's their policy.
>
> Yes Denso made in Japan.
>>
>>> I wonder if it is cheaper to do it that way, twisting the wire into
>>> the right shape would take longer and more effort than crimping a
>>> terminal so maybe there is another reason?
>>
>> I can't imagine it would be any more difficult or time consuming to
>> form the bare wire into the required shape than it would be to crimp
>> on a terminal during the manufacturing process, so the differences in
>> costs relating to manufacturing processes would be negligible.
>> However in using the bare wire on it's own they are removing the
>> terminal from the picture altogether, and the only logical reason I
>> can see why they would possibly want to do that would be to reduce
>> the manufacturing costs.
>>
>> As I said it doesn't seem to have affected the starter operation in
>> any way, but it is *still* a cheap and nasty approach to component
>> manufacture that doesn't seem to do anything other than add to
>> Toyota's bank balance.
>>
>>
>
> As well as saving the price of the terminal the wire that comes out of
> the starter is also short so maybe by doing it that way they save on
> terminals and wire, doesn't make much sense to people like us

which just shows how clueless you two are then because we've been
discussing why it does make sense. if you weren't so stupid and blocked
ppl you would know what was said and could learn something. even I knew
why it made sense to do it that way!

> but maybe it makes sense to Denso who make millions of the things.
>

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

"So some infantile nonsense and running away again
I see. Your standard MO." -Clocky on Keefy

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 2/6/2022 6:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 2/6/2022 11:47 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 2/06/2022 10:39 am, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 1/6/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>>
>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>>
>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but instead
>>>> of having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the
>>>> end of it like most other starters this one is just wrapped around
>>>> the stud and jammed in place with the nut.
>>>>
>>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>>
>>> Rough and cheap as that looks was it actually causing a problem?
>>
>> Not that I'm aware of. According to the owner this is the first time
>> the car's had a starter problem since she bought it new 11 years ago,
>> and from what I can tell the problem that developed isn't related to
>> the lead connection.
>>
>> However that doesn't remove the fact that the connection method itself
>> is pretty pissweak for a high current application. Most people would
>> be reluctant to have their battery leads secured in such a way....
>>
>>> Only starter that I have here not attached to a car is from a 2005
>>> Diahatsu Charade, it has the same "twisted wire" as the Corolla starter.
>>> I know it works because I started the engine to test it before
>>> removing the engine, couldn't use it because it fits an auto and
>>> son's Mira is manual.
>>
>> Is it a Denso starter by any chance? I wonder if that's their policy.

No, Denso will make a starter according to the *manufacturer's*
specification. Note, Daihatsu falls under the *Toyota family* umbrella!
>
> Yes Denso made in Japan.
>>
>>> I wonder if it is cheaper to do it that way, twisting the wire into
>>> the right shape would take longer and more effort than crimping a
>>> terminal so maybe there is another reason?

Yes, creating a Flemish eyelet splice takes longer and requires much
more effort than crimping a terminal but it creates a perfect strong
eyelet and a perfect *high current* electrical connection. Note, the
splice in the pic looks like an 8 strand eye splice in rope. As such, it
is not an easy thing to do, especially on a very tight splice on the
starter with *copper wire*.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOuYIZVExSQ

Just imagine doing that with *copper strands* and getting a real tight
splice as you see on the starter!
>>
>> I can't imagine it would be any more difficult or time consuming to
>> form the bare wire into the required shape than it would be to crimp
>> on a terminal during the manufacturing process, so the differences in
>> costs relating to manufacturing processes would be negligible. However
>> in using the bare wire on it's own they are removing the terminal from
>> the picture altogether, and the only logical reason I can see why they
>> would possibly want to do that would be to reduce the manufacturing
>> costs.
>>
>> As I said it doesn't seem to have affected the starter operation in
>> any way, but it is *still* a cheap and nasty approach to component
>> manufacture that doesn't seem to do anything other than add to
>> Toyota's bank balance.
>>
>>
>
> As well as saving the price of the terminal the wire that comes out of
> the starter is also short so maybe by doing it that way they save on
> terminals and wire, doesn't make much sense to people like us but maybe
> it makes sense to Denso who make millions of the things.
>
FFS, are you a clown or what? By getting rid of the *crimp terminal*,
they are *eliminating* a weak point. Have you ever seen wire eyelet
splicing done? It ain't simple! Ditto with rope splicing. What it does
do is make an extremely strong eyelet. What you have here is an eyelet
that isn't going to come off *ever* as long as the nut is on and tight.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 2/6/2022 7:10 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> On 2/06/2022 6:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 2/6/2022 11:47 am, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2022 10:39 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 1/6/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>
>>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>>>
>>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but instead
>>>>> of having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the
>>>>> end of it like most other starters this one is just wrapped around
>>>>> the stud and jammed in place with the nut.
>>>>>
>>>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>>>
>>>> Rough and cheap as that looks was it actually causing a problem?
>>>
>>> Not that I'm aware of. According to the owner this is the first time
>>> the car's had a starter problem since she bought it new 11 years ago,
>>> and from what I can tell the problem that developed isn't related to
>>> the lead connection.
>>>
>>> However that doesn't remove the fact that the connection method
>>> itself is pretty pissweak for a high current application. Most people
>>> would be reluctant to have their battery leads secured in such a way....
>>>
>>>> Only starter that I have here not attached to a car is from a 2005
>>>> Diahatsu Charade, it has the same "twisted wire" as the Corolla
>>>> starter.
>>>> I know it works because I started the engine to test it before
>>>> removing the engine, couldn't use it because it fits an auto and
>>>> son's Mira is manual.
>>>
>>> Is it a Denso starter by any chance? I wonder if that's their policy.
>>
>> Yes Denso made in Japan.
>>>
>>>> I wonder if it is cheaper to do it that way, twisting the wire into
>>>> the right shape would take longer and more effort than crimping a
>>>> terminal so maybe there is another reason?
>>>
>>> I can't imagine it would be any more difficult or time consuming to
>>> form the bare wire into the required shape than it would be to crimp
>>> on a terminal during the manufacturing process, so the differences in
>>> costs relating to manufacturing processes would be negligible.
>>> However in using the bare wire on it's own they are removing the
>>> terminal from the picture altogether, and the only logical reason I
>>> can see why they would possibly want to do that would be to reduce
>>> the manufacturing costs.
>>>
>>> As I said it doesn't seem to have affected the starter operation in
>>> any way, but it is *still* a cheap and nasty approach to component
>>> manufacture that doesn't seem to do anything other than add to
>>> Toyota's bank balance.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> As well as saving the price of the terminal the wire that comes out of
>> the starter is also short so maybe by doing it that way they save on
>> terminals and wire, doesn't make much sense to people like us
>
>
> which just shows how clueless you two are then because we've been
> discussing why it does make sense. if you weren't so stupid and blocked
> ppl you would know what was said and could learn something. even I knew
> why it made sense to do it that way!
>
>
>> but maybe it makes sense to Denso who make millions of the things.
>>
>
I don't think the word *clueless* cuts it when describing these two
clowns. It's assuming they could get a clue. The reality, they could be
in a field chock full of clues whilst liberally daubed with clue musk
and doing the clue mating dance, and still not get a clue!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 2/06/2022 6:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 2/6/2022 11:47 am, Noddy wrote:

>> As I said it doesn't seem to have affected the starter operation in
>> any way, but it is *still* a cheap and nasty approach to component
>> manufacture that doesn't seem to do anything other than add to
>> Toyota's bank balance.
>>
>>
>
> As well as saving the price of the terminal the wire that comes out of
> the starter is also short so maybe by doing it that way they save on
> terminals and wire, doesn't make much sense to people like us but maybe
> it makes sense to Denso who make millions of the things.

They do. A few cents on one starter is nothing, but on a few million
it's a big deal.

It's *still* a dodgy way of wiring up a high current connection :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 2/6/2022 9:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 2/06/2022 6:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 2/6/2022 11:47 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> As I said it doesn't seem to have affected the starter operation in
>>> any way, but it is *still* a cheap and nasty approach to component
>>> manufacture that doesn't seem to do anything other than add to
>>> Toyota's bank balance.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> As well as saving the price of the terminal the wire that comes out of
>> the starter is also short so maybe by doing it that way they save on
>> terminals and wire, doesn't make much sense to people like us but
>> maybe it makes sense to Denso who make millions of the things.

FFS, the wire is *looped*. Can you not see that? It extends back from
the actual loop area and its ends are interspersed with the wire section
it is looped back on to. It does not save on wire length. In fact, it
uses *more wire*. You can see that from the pic you posted! You would
cut *more* of the wire off if you intended to put a crimp connector on it.
>
> They do. A few cents on one starter is nothing, but on a few million
> it's a big deal.

The Flemish eye splice is harder to do, uses more wire, takes more
effort by *people* and will cost a whole lot more than a crimp
connector. But if the company, in this case Toyota, put it in the *build
specs*, then they will be given an all inclusive price by the OEM and it
will be *more expensive* by a decent margin, not cheaper as you intimate
it will be. It will however be way more effective long term and
contribute to Toyota's reputation for *reliability*.
>
> It's *still* a dodgy way of wiring up a high current connection :)
>
It is the *best* way to create a perfect eyelet for a high current
connection. It is not in the least dodgy. Get your head out of your arse!

The only thing dodgy here is *you* and that's because you're a liar and
a fraud and this entire thread serves only to confirm that.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 2/06/2022 5:41 pm, Xeno wrote:
> Yosemite Sam <felix@invalid.com> wrote:
>> On 2/06/2022 4:35 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 2/6/2022 3:54 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 2/06/2022 1:26 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 2/06/2022 6:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/06/2022 8:00 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:34:33 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/06/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota
>>>>>>>>> apologists around
>>>>>>>>> here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share another
>>>>>>>>> little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
>>>>>>>>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
>>>>>>>>> starter
>>>>>>>>> that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and she'd
>>>>>>>>> been
>>>>>>>>> quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced which she
>>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>>> keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and didn't want
>>>>>>>>> to fork
>>>>>>>>> out on it unless she had to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story
>>>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion
>>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed
>>>>>>>>> issue, and as
>>>>>>>>> the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to
>>>>>>>>> get out
>>>>>>>>> I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
>>>>>>>>> grease,
>>>>>>>>> and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it was
>>>>>>>>> put
>>>>>>>>> back together and back in the car and it's all working as it
>>>>>>>>> should.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>>>>>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>>>>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but
>>>>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>>>>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the
>>>>>>>>> end of it
>>>>>>>>> like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the
>>>>>>>>> stud and
>>>>>>>>> jammed in place with the nut.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>>>>>>>>> starters
>>>>>>>>> are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>>>>>>>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>>>>>>>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>>>>>>>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making
>>>>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>>> cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
>>>>>>>>> Corolla by
>>>>>>>>> not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is
>>>>>>>>> fantastic?
>>>>>>>>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Are you suggesting that you know, without any doubt, that the
>>>>>>>> car has
>>>>>>>> never been worked on previously on that component?
>>>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2011_Corolla/69294639__6730963/STARTER/155460-1904.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> **A little. Obviously, it is difficult to see any detail, but it
>>>>>> appears Toyota dropped the ball on this issue.
>>>>> What "issue"?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> exactly. why assume it's an inferior way of doing it?
>>>>
>>> It isn't an inferior way of doing it and Darren's pics *prove it*.
>>>
>> I wasn't suggesting it was
>>
> Darren was suggesting it was an inferior way of doing it, even in the
> header. He was so so wrong! You might have noticed, he’s wrong a lot and
> there’s good reason for that - he’s an idiot!
>

he has a history of proving himself wrong when trying to prove himself
right, lol

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

"So some infantile nonsense and running away again
I see. Your standard MO." -Clocky on Keefy

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 2/06/2022 9:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 2/06/2022 6:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 2/6/2022 11:47 am, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> As I said it doesn't seem to have affected the starter operation in
>>> any way, but it is *still* a cheap and nasty approach to component
>>> manufacture that doesn't seem to do anything other than add to
>>> Toyota's bank balance.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> As well as saving the price of the terminal the wire that comes out
>> of the starter is also short so maybe by doing it that way they save
>> on terminals and wire, doesn't make much sense to people like us but
>> maybe it makes sense to Denso who make millions of the things.
>
> They do. A few cents on one starter is nothing, but on a few million
> it's a big deal.
>
> It's *still* a dodgy way of wiring up a high current connection :)
>
>

no

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

"So some infantile nonsense and running away again
I see. Your standard MO." -Clocky on Keefy

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 2/06/2022 10:00 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 2/6/2022 9:33 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 2/06/2022 6:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 2/6/2022 11:47 am, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>>> As I said it doesn't seem to have affected the starter operation in
>>>> any way, but it is *still* a cheap and nasty approach to component
>>>> manufacture that doesn't seem to do anything other than add to
>>>> Toyota's bank balance.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> As well as saving the price of the terminal the wire that comes out
>>> of the starter is also short so maybe by doing it that way they save
>>> on terminals and wire, doesn't make much sense to people like us but
>>> maybe it makes sense to Denso who make millions of the things.
>
> FFS, the wire is *looped*. Can you not see that? It extends back from
> the actual loop area and its ends are interspersed with the wire
> section it is looped back on to. It does not save on wire length. In
> fact, it uses *more wire*. You can see that from the pic you posted!
> You would cut *more* of the wire off if you intended to put a crimp
> connector on it.

of course.

>>
>> They do. A few cents on one starter is nothing, but on a few million
>> it's a big deal.
>
> The Flemish eye splice is harder to do, uses more wire, takes more
> effort by *people* and will cost a whole lot more than a crimp
> connector. But if the company, in this case Toyota, put it in the
> *build specs*, then they will be given an all inclusive price by the
> OEM and it will be *more expensive* by a decent margin, not cheaper as
> you intimate it will be. It will however be way more effective long
> term and contribute to Toyota's reputation for *reliability*.
>>
>> It's *still* a dodgy way of wiring up a high current connection :)
>>
> It is the *best* way to create a perfect eyelet for a high current
> connection.

exactly

> It is not in the least dodgy. Get your head out of your arse!
>
> The only thing dodgy here is *you* and that's because you're a liar
> and a fraud and this entire thread serves only to confirm that.
>
>

yep!

--
https://tinyurl.com/Yosemite-Sam

"So some infantile nonsense and running away again
I see. Your standard MO." -Clocky on Keefy

FUCK PUTIN!!

On 2/06/2022 4:30 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 2/6/2022 6:20 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 2/06/2022 2:35 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 2/6/2022 3:54 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>> On 2/06/2022 1:26 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>> On 2/06/2022 6:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/06/2022 8:00 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:34:33 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 1/06/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota
>>>>>>>>> apologists around
>>>>>>>>> here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share another
>>>>>>>>> little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
>>>>>>>>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
>>>>>>>>> starter
>>>>>>>>> that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and
>>>>>>>>> she'd been
>>>>>>>>> quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced which
>>>>>>>>> she wasn't
>>>>>>>>> keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and didn't want
>>>>>>>>> to fork
>>>>>>>>> out on it unless she had to.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story
>>>>>>>>> short
>>>>>>>>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion
>>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed
>>>>>>>>> issue, and as
>>>>>>>>> the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to
>>>>>>>>> get out
>>>>>>>>> I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
>>>>>>>>> grease,
>>>>>>>>> and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it
>>>>>>>>> was put
>>>>>>>>> back together and back in the car and it's all working as it
>>>>>>>>> should.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but
>>>>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>>>>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the
>>>>>>>>> end of it
>>>>>>>>> like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the
>>>>>>>>> stud and
>>>>>>>>> jammed in place with the nut.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>>>>>>>>> starters
>>>>>>>>> are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in
>>>>>>>>> making their
>>>>>>>>> cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
>>>>>>>>> Corolla by
>>>>>>>>> not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is
>>>>>>>>> fantastic?
>>>>>>>>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Are you suggesting that you know, without any doubt, that the
>>>>>>>> car has
>>>>>>>> never been worked on previously on that component?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2011_Corolla/69294639__6730963/STARTER/155460-1904.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **A little. Obviously, it is difficult to see any detail, but it
>>>>>> appears Toyota dropped the ball on this issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> What "issue"?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> exactly. why assume it's an inferior way of doing it?
>>>>
>>> It isn't an inferior way of doing it and Darren's pics *prove it*.
>>>
>>
>> It's only an inferior way if he can show that it causes problems and
>> he can't.
>
> Instead, he has pointed out, with his photo, why it is *superior quality*.
>>
>> Broken Navara and Pathfinder timing chains were a worldwide quality
>> issue that severely damaged the brand, as were Ford Powershit
>> transmissions and worse the way they tried to shaft customers by
>> putting the blame on them.
>>
>> But here he is pointing at something that has never caused anyone ever
>> a problem as "dubious Toyota Quality".
>
> Well, his work on engines definitely ranks as *dubious quality*. On
> second thought, and with Les' engine in mind, make that *shit quality*.
>>
>> Meanwhile, the cloth seats in my poverty pack Hilux with 345,000 km on
>> the clock have no tears :-)
>>
> Jeez, Darren's Navara couldn't manage that, its seats were on the way
> out at *70k klm*.
>

Imagine the noise he would have created about "Toyota quality" had it
been the other way around.

He would have burst a vein.

--
keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
it is unproven, he is lying."

On 3/6/2022 11:21 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 2/06/2022 4:30 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 2/6/2022 6:20 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>> On 2/06/2022 2:35 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>> On 2/6/2022 3:54 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
>>>>> On 2/06/2022 1:26 pm, Clocky wrote:
>>>>>> On 2/06/2022 6:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2/06/2022 8:00 am, alvey wrote:
>>>>>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:34:33 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1/06/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota
>>>>>>>>>> apologists around
>>>>>>>>>> here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share
>>>>>>>>>> another
>>>>>>>>>> little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with
>>>>>>>>>> the starter
>>>>>>>>>> that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and
>>>>>>>>>> she'd been
>>>>>>>>>> quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced which
>>>>>>>>>> she wasn't
>>>>>>>>>> keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and didn't want
>>>>>>>>>> to fork
>>>>>>>>>> out on it unless she had to.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long
>>>>>>>>>> story short
>>>>>>>>>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion
>>>>>>>>>> wasn't
>>>>>>>>>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed
>>>>>>>>>> issue, and as
>>>>>>>>>> the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes
>>>>>>>>>> to get out
>>>>>>>>>> I thought I would take it out and have a look.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry,
>>>>>>>>>> hardened grease,
>>>>>>>>>> and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it
>>>>>>>>>> was put
>>>>>>>>>> back together and back in the car and it's all working as it
>>>>>>>>>> should.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but
>>>>>>>>>> instead of
>>>>>>>>>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the
>>>>>>>>>> end of it
>>>>>>>>>> like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the
>>>>>>>>>> stud and
>>>>>>>>>> jammed in place with the nut.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Not even with a washer :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
>>>>>>>>>> starters
>>>>>>>>>> are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A Mitsubishi one:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in
>>>>>>>>>> making their
>>>>>>>>>> cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
>>>>>>>>>> Corolla by
>>>>>>>>>> not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is
>>>>>>>>>> fantastic?
>>>>>>>>>> Oh, what a feeling :)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **Are you suggesting that you know, without any doubt, that the
>>>>>>>>> car has
>>>>>>>>> never been worked on previously on that component?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Does this help?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2011_Corolla/69294639__6730963/STARTER/155460-1904.html
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **A little. Obviously, it is difficult to see any detail, but it
>>>>>>> appears Toyota dropped the ball on this issue.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What "issue"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> exactly. why assume it's an inferior way of doing it?
>>>>>
>>>> It isn't an inferior way of doing it and Darren's pics *prove it*.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It's only an inferior way if he can show that it causes problems and
>>> he can't.
>>
>> Instead, he has pointed out, with his photo, why it is *superior
>> quality*.
>>>
>>> Broken Navara and Pathfinder timing chains were a worldwide quality
>>> issue that severely damaged the brand, as were Ford Powershit
>>> transmissions and worse the way they tried to shaft customers by
>>> putting the blame on them.
>>>
>>> But here he is pointing at something that has never caused anyone
>>> ever a problem as "dubious Toyota Quality".
>>
>> Well, his work on engines definitely ranks as *dubious quality*. On
>> second thought, and with Les' engine in mind, make that *shit quality*.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, the cloth seats in my poverty pack Hilux with 345,000 km
>>> on the clock have no tears :-)
>>>
>> Jeez, Darren's Navara couldn't manage that, its seats were on the way
>> out at *70k klm*.
>>
>
> Imagine the noise he would have created about "Toyota quality" had it
> been the other way around.
>
> He would have burst a vein.
>
The seats in my Toy show no signs of wear or damage at 120k so I expect
they will be the same at double that. Toyota obviously use a much better
material quality than Nissan.

--
Xeno

On Thursday, 2 June 2022 at 18:21:04 UTC+10, Clocky wrote:
> On 2/06/2022 2:35 pm, Xeno wrote:
> > On 2/6/2022 3:54 pm, Yosemite Sam wrote:
> >> On 2/06/2022 1:26 pm, Clocky wrote:
> >>> On 2/06/2022 6:37 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> >>>> On 2/06/2022 8:00 am, alvey wrote:
> >>>>> On Thu, 2 Jun 2022 07:34:33 +1000, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 1/06/2022 11:26 pm, Noddy wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Just because we all know how much of a knot the Toyota apologists
> >>>>>>> around
> >>>>>>> here like to get their knickers in, just thought I'd share another
> >>>>>>> little "Toyota Tidbit" I discovered yesterday.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I was doing a small love job on a 2011 Corolla that belongs to the
> >>>>>>> mother of the lady who washes my dog. It had a problem with the
> >>>>>>> starter
> >>>>>>> that made a horrible noise when you cranked the engine and she'd
> >>>>>>> been
> >>>>>>> quoted some stupid amount of money to have it replaced which she
> >>>>>>> wasn't
> >>>>>>> keep on paying as she was selling the car soon and didn't want to
> >>>>>>> fork
> >>>>>>> out on it unless she had to.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> So I told her to bring it over and I'll take a peek. Long story
> >>>>>>> short
> >>>>>>> when you cranked the engine it sounded like the starter pinion
> >>>>>>> wasn't
> >>>>>>> retracting quick enough causing either a mesh or overspeed issue,
> >>>>>>> and as
> >>>>>>> the starter on this particular model takes all of 10 minutes to
> >>>>>>> get out
> >>>>>>> I thought I would take it out and have a look.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Turns out the starter was full of clutch dust and dry, hardened
> >>>>>>> grease,
> >>>>>>> and after a quick dismantle and clean and some new grease it was put
> >>>>>>> back together and back in the car and it's all working as it should.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Anyway, onto the interesting bit.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This is the starter here. Nothing special:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MK7
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> This is what I found when I removed the solenoid:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKG
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The field coil lead attaches directly to the solenoid, but
> >>>>>>> instead of
> >>>>>>> having an eyelet or ring terminal soldered or crimped onto the
> >>>>>>> end of it
> >>>>>>> like most other starters this one is just wrapped around the stud
> >>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>> jammed in place with the nut.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Not even with a washer :)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Pretty fucking pisseak I thought, so I wondered how many other
> >>>>>>> starters
> >>>>>>> are like that? I have a few laying around here so I had a look.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Couple of Mazda ones here:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKP
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Nope, They both have soldered eyelets.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> A Mitsubishi one:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKU
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Nope. Crimped eyelet as well.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Even a dirty old Ford V8 starter:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> https://www.imagebam.com/view/MEB3MKW
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Yep. Crimped terminal there too.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Cool, huh? Looks like Toyota has been actively engaged in making
> >>>>>>> their
> >>>>>>> cars as cheap as they possibly can by saving 4 cents on each
> >>>>>>> Corolla by
> >>>>>>> not using a proper terminal on the starter coil wire.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Remind me again why some people think everything they make is
> >>>>>>> fantastic?
> >>>>>>> Oh, what a feeling :)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> **Are you suggesting that you know, without any doubt, that the
> >>>>>> car has
> >>>>>> never been worked on previously on that component?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Does this help?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://parts.toyota.com/a/Toyota_2011_Corolla/69294639__6730963/STARTER/155460-1904.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> **A little. Obviously, it is difficult to see any detail, but it
> >>>> appears Toyota dropped the ball on this issue.
> >>>
> >>> What "issue"?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >> exactly. why assume it's an inferior way of doing it?
> >>
> > It isn't an inferior way of doing it and Darren's pics *prove it*.
> >
> It's only an inferior way if he can show that it causes problems and he
> can't.
>
> Broken Navara and Pathfinder timing chains were a worldwide quality
> issue that severely damaged the brand, as were Ford Powershit
> transmissions and worse the way they tried to shaft customers by putting
> the blame on them.
>
> But here he is pointing at something that has never caused anyone ever a
> problem as "dubious Toyota Quality".
>
> Meanwhile, the cloth seats in my poverty pack Hilux with 345,000 km on
> the clock have no tears :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

Faaaark!, hold the front page....HAHAHA
You do realise the only reason the seat is not ripped, is coz a real lightweight (in all its forms) has been drivin' it.... <FBG>
> --
> keith on the 7 Oct 2021 wrote;
> "He asserts that the claim is true, so, if
> it is unproven, he is lying."

On 3/06/2022 11:46 am, jonz@ nothere.com wrote:
> On Thursday, 2 June 2022 at 18:21:04 UTC+10, Clocky wrote:

>> Broken Navara and Pathfinder timing chains were a worldwide quality
>> issue that severely damaged the brand, as were Ford Powershit
>> transmissions and worse the way they tried to shaft customers by putting
>> the blame on them.
>>
>> But here he is pointing at something that has never caused anyone ever a
>> problem as "dubious Toyota Quality".
>>
>> Meanwhile, the cloth seats in my poverty pack Hilux with 345,000 km on
>> the clock have no tears :-)

> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
>
> Faaaark!, hold the front page....HAHAHA
> You do realise the only reason the seat is not ripped, is coz a real lightweight (in all its forms) has been drivin' it.... <FBG>

This is yet *another* perfect example of these fucking retards inventing
a bullshit argument to have something completely ridiculous to scream about.

I never once said that the seats in my Navara were ripped, and I
challenge any one of these ridiculous fuckwits to cite any post where I
ever said that they were. The seats in my Navara are not ripped and they
never have been. They're lovely heated leather seats in excellent
condition.

What I *did* say was that when I went to auctions looking for a ute
before I bought this one I found many ex tradie utes that had ripped
driver's seats, and it wasn't just Navaras. It was utes from all makes
and particularly those that had cloth seats.

What these fucking simpletons have done here is taken something I've
said and turned it into something it isn't, and they do this *all* the
time. They exist in this group for no reason other than to perpetuate
bullshit that never existed in the first place, all while trying to
portray themselves as pillars of honesty and integrity who0 do no wrong.

I was going to say that it's laughable, but it's way deeper than that.
it's genuine mental illness, and personally have to genuinely laugh out
loud at the fucking *imbecile* who once made a huge song and dance about
his ability to wire up a set of spotlights as if he was the only one who
could ever do so thinking that the cheap and nasty method of wrapping a
wire around a stud and jamming it in place with a nut is a perfectly
acceptable means of making a reliable connection.

All I get from that is that he would be the shonkiest cunt you could
ever let loose near a car, and it's no wonder the idiot is confined to
fitting mudflaps and side steps for a living.

"Shooting at pigeons over my back fence into neighbouring properties",
wasn't it Jerky? Something you completely invented and have been on the
bullshit crusade ever since.

You're a fucking idiot. Pure and simple.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.