Came in this afternoon, filled the kettle, pressed the switch. Nowt.
Checked the electric box and found the downstairs power had tripped.

Only the downstairs (and 1st floor), not the loft or lights.

Flipped the switch on and "phwap", straight down again.(kettle was now
unlugged).

Took the kettle to the loft and tried it there (after shutting down my
server). No problem.

Proceded to unplug stuff on both floors. Still "phwap"

Cycled the main swithc. Still "phwap".

The only thing not unplugged was the fridge/freezer, and due to usual
Brit bodging the built in cupboard obstructs the socket "doh!"

With the tools lined up, and about to dismantle cupboard I remembered I
had only unplugged stuff in our bedroom, the extension leads were still
plugged in.

So, unplug them and "click", no "phwap".

Finger points at 2 extension leads (yeah yeah, should have done 1 as a
time).

So, plug back in 1st one. All fine.
Plug back in 2nd one. All fine.

Everything plugged back in now, no problem.
(Time line is the power went at 13:03[1]
I sussed power off at 15:30, power back at 17:20)

So, the finger points to *maybe* one of the extension leads. I
could/should/will just bin them and put new ones in, but that does not
answer the question really.

A PAT testing machne seems to start at £300, so a bit steep for
extension lead testing.

Is it worth me getting an electrician in to test everything? (new fuse
box and electrics certified in 2015)

[1] I know this because my router logged all downstairs devices
disconnecting

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 02/04/2023 19:03, YTC#1 wrote:
> Finger points at 2 extension leads (yeah yeah, should have done 1 as a
> time).
>
> So, plug back in 1st one. All fine.
> Plug back in 2nd one. All fine.
>
> Everything plugged back in now, no problem.
> (Time line is the power went at 13:03[1]
> I sussed power off at 15:30, power back at 17:20)
>
> So, the finger points to *maybe* one of the extension leads. I
> could/should/will just bin them and put new ones in, but that does not
> answer the question really.
>
> A PAT testing machne seems to start at £300, so a bit steep for
> extension lead testing.
>
> Is it worth me getting an electrician in to test everything? (new fuse
> box and electrics certified in 2015)

It is the RCD that is tripping.
The RCD measures an imbalance between the live and neutral terminals.
This means it can be a real pain to trace a fault, as the fault current
required to trip it is very low - 30mA.
Unless the cable is damaged, the extension leads are unlikely to be a
cause of RCD tripping, if it was damaged, they'd probably be OK if you
moved them, as the 2 cables that were slightly touching may have been
moved enough that they are no longer tripping.
The most usual cause of RCD tripping is something wet. It can be
anything from a slight leak of rain into an outside light, a damp wall
with a socket on it, a kettle that has been boiled too close to a socket.
Just turning off the appliances/lights does not always show the fault,
as, mostly, when you turn off the appliance/light at the switch, only
the live conductor is disconnected, this also applies to many socket
outlets. This is because the fault may be a neutral to earth fault, if
the neutral conductor is touching the earth conductor through a drop of
water, or a damaged cable, the RCD will see the imbalance, as some of
the neutral current will be going down the earth cable, not back down
the neutral cable and through the RCD.
If it is random, it's a right pain in the arse tracing it, and the only
real way to test it is to disconnect the potential faulty cables and do
a proper insulation resistance test. This applies a 250 volt + zapping
of the cable to see if it is touching anywhere. Sometimes it isnt
possible to do this, as such things as LED light drivers etc have an
inbuilt 'earth leakage' current, so the test shows there to be some
earth leakage, but is it designed like that, or is it a fault?
If you narrow it down to oen circuit, then you may have to turn off the
circuit breaker for that circuit, and also remove the neutral connector
at the consumer unit.
However, I think you more likely have an appliance/accessory fault, so
it'll most probably be something faulty (anything that has water in/near
it) or an outside light/socket that has got water in it. Or, any damaged
cable.
It's usually easy enough to trace it on your own house. If it is random,
but someone turned on a light when it went off, then it is that light,
or possibly something on that circuit.
I'd be looking for water drops somewhere.

--
Remove the '+' and replace with 'plus' to reply by email

On 02/04/2023 19:53, Alan Lee wrote:
> On 02/04/2023 19:03, YTC#1 wrote:
>> Finger points at 2 extension leads (yeah yeah, should have done 1 as a
>> time).
>>
>> So, plug back in 1st one. All fine.
>> Plug back in 2nd one. All fine.
>>
>> Everything plugged back in now, no problem.
>> (Time line is the power went at 13:03[1]
>> I sussed power off at 15:30, power back at 17:20)
>>
>> So, the finger points to *maybe* one of the extension leads. I
>> could/should/will just bin them and put new ones in, but that does not
>> answer the question really.
>>
>> A PAT testing machne seems to start at £300, so a bit steep for
>> extension lead testing.
>>
>> Is it worth me getting an electrician in to test everything? (new fuse
>> box and electrics certified in 2015)
>
> It is the RCD that is tripping.

<snip>
Wow, that was informative ! Ta
Do I take it I have missed your trade? :-)

How much of a coincindece could it be that after 4 hours it would reset
after I unplugged the extension leads?

> It's usually easy enough to trace it on your own house. If it is random,
> but someone turned on a light when it went off, then it is that light,
> or possibly something on that circuit.

Well, we can rule out someone doing something. As we left the house at
12:28 and the trip occured at 13:03 (bloody handy this wifi router log :-) )

> I'd be looking for water drops somewhere.
>

No rain since yesterday.
Only outiside electirc item is a light, and that circuit was OK.[1]

I did miss disconnecting the washing machine (switch is out of sight),
and that was running when we left the house.

So, perhaps we are down to 2 possible items.
The washing machine and the fridge/freezer?

[1] OK I need to check it is on the light circuit and not the power
socket :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 02/04/2023 20:52, YTC#1 wrote:
> So, perhaps we are down to 2 possible items.
> The washing machine and the fridge/freezer?

Both are regularly the cause of faults. The heating element splits in
the washing machine, so water gets in, the fridge has a faulty
compressor, or, a blockage on the drain in the back which causes a drip
onto something electricial, then the RCD trips.
It could be a faulty extension lead, my first thought was that was a
conincidence,but, its possible that the leads cable may have been
damaged, I have only ever found one that was damaged, and that was a
poorly connected plug where a wire had come loose inside.
--
Remove the '+' and replace with 'plus' to reply by email

On 02/04/2023 21:27, Alan Lee wrote:
> On 02/04/2023 20:52, YTC#1 wrote:
>> So, perhaps we are down to 2 possible items.
>> The washing machine and the fridge/freezer?
>
> Both are regularly the cause of faults. The heating element splits in
> the washing machine, so water gets in, the fridge has a faulty
> compressor, or, a blockage on the drain in the back which causes a drip
> onto something electricial, then the RCD trips.
Aha.
We have a long standing issue with the fridge drain blocking.
Right, you have given me an excuse to get a new fridge.

Current one is "built in" fridge/freezer unit, I frigging hate it!

> It could be a faulty extension lead, my first thought was that was a
> conincidence,but, its possible that the leads cable may have been
> damaged, I have only ever found one that was damaged, and that was a
> poorly connected plug where a wire had come loose inside.

Before I unplugged the suspected extension leads (which will be
changed), I had my hand under the fridge trying to get at the socket. So
I may have dislodged/fixed something.

Anyway, we can have the fun of taking the grandkids fridge shopping this
week :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk> wrote in
news:u0cme8$2kb93$1@dont-email.me:

>
>
> On 02/04/2023 19:53, Alan Lee wrote:
>> On 02/04/2023 19:03, YTC#1 wrote:
>>> Finger points at 2 extension leads (yeah yeah, should have done 1 as
>>> a time).
>>>
>>> So, plug back in 1st one. All fine.
>>> Plug back in 2nd one. All fine.
>>>
>>> Everything plugged back in now, no problem.
>>> (Time line is the power went at 13:03[1]
>>> I sussed power off at 15:30, power back at 17:20)
>>>
>>> So, the finger points to *maybe* one of the extension leads. I
>>> could/should/will just bin them and put new ones in, but that does
>>> not answer the question really.
>>>
>>> A PAT testing machne seems to start at £300, so a bit steep for
>>> extension lead testing.
>>>
>>> Is it worth me getting an electrician in to test everything? (new
>>> fuse box and electrics certified in 2015)
>>
>> It is the RCD that is tripping.
>
> <snip>
> Wow, that was informative ! Ta
> Do I take it I have missed your trade? :-)
>
> How much of a coincindece could it be that after 4 hours it would
> reset after I unplugged the extension leads?
>
>

the piss on your electric blanket dried out

On 03/04/2023 00:24, wessie wrote:
> YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk> wrote in
> news:u0cme8$2kb93$1@dont-email.me:
>
>>
>>
>> On 02/04/2023 19:53, Alan Lee wrote:
>>> On 02/04/2023 19:03, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>> Finger points at 2 extension leads (yeah yeah, should have done 1 as
>>>> a time).
>>>>
>>>> So, plug back in 1st one. All fine.
>>>> Plug back in 2nd one. All fine.
>>>>
>>>> Everything plugged back in now, no problem.
>>>> (Time line is the power went at 13:03[1]
>>>> I sussed power off at 15:30, power back at 17:20)
>>>>
>>>> So, the finger points to *maybe* one of the extension leads. I
>>>> could/should/will just bin them and put new ones in, but that does
>>>> not answer the question really.
>>>>
>>>> A PAT testing machne seems to start at £300, so a bit steep for
>>>> extension lead testing.
>>>>
>>>> Is it worth me getting an electrician in to test everything? (new
>>>> fuse box and electrics certified in 2015)
>>>
>>> It is the RCD that is tripping.
>>
>> <snip>
>> Wow, that was informative ! Ta
>> Do I take it I have missed your trade? :-)
>>
>> How much of a coincindece could it be that after 4 hours it would
>> reset after I unplugged the extension leads?
>>
>>
>
> the piss on your electric blanket dried out

Yes indeed - or any dampness anywhere (in distrib boards?) drying out.
I totally agree with all that Alan L wrote and would emphasise that
anything with a heater element (espcially), or a motor, is the most
probable source of 'issues'.

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 03/04/2023 11:07, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
> On 03/04/2023 00:24, wessie wrote:
>> YTC#1 <bdp@ytc1-spambin.co.uk> wrote in
>> news:u0cme8$2kb93$1@dont-email.me:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/04/2023 19:53, Alan Lee wrote:
>>>> On 02/04/2023 19:03, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>>> Finger points at 2 extension leads (yeah yeah, should have done 1 as
>>>>> a time).
>>>>>
>>>>> So, plug back in 1st one. All fine.
>>>>> Plug back in 2nd one. All fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Everything plugged back in now, no problem.
>>>>> (Time line is the power went at 13:03[1]
>>>>> I sussed power off at 15:30, power back at 17:20)
>>>>>
>>>>> So, the finger points to *maybe* one of the extension leads. I
>>>>> could/should/will just bin them and put new ones in, but that does
>>>>> not answer the question really.
>>>>>
>>>>> A PAT testing machne seems to start at £300, so a bit steep for
>>>>> extension lead testing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it worth me getting an electrician in to test everything? (new
>>>>> fuse box and electrics certified in 2015)
>>>>
>>>> It is the RCD that is tripping.
>>>
>>> <snip>
>>> Wow, that was informative ! Ta
>>> Do I take it I have missed your trade? :-)
>>>
>>> How much of a coincindece could it be that after 4 hours it would
>>> reset after I unplugged the extension leads?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> the piss on your electric blanket dried out
>
> Yes indeed - or any dampness anywhere (in distrib boards?) drying out.

That would be worrying.
Seems dry enough, under the stairs wall attached to garage, backing on
to where the Solar battery will be installed later this week.

> I totally agree with all that Alan L wrote and would emphasise that
> anything with a heater element (espcially), or a motor, is the most
> probable source of 'issues'.

Fridge/Freezer reasearch on going.......

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 03/04/2023 11:45, YTC#1 wrote:

> Fridge/Freezer reasearch on going.......

You did say the washer was on when you went out, have you tried that
again on the same program?

--
Remove the '+' and replace with 'plus' to reply by email

On 03/04/2023 11:49, Alan Lee wrote:
> On 03/04/2023 11:45, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>> Fridge/Freezer reasearch on going.......
>
> You did say the washer was on when you went out, have you tried that
> again on the same program?
>

Yep,that was the 1st thing Jean did, as we had no idea where it was up
to in the cycle.

>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

El Sun, 02 Apr 2023 19:53:07 +0100, Alan Lee escribió:

> It is the RCD that is tripping.
<snip>
> If it is random, it's a right pain in the arse tracing it

Took me years in the rental house. I could never reproduce it. It
*seemed* to only trip out in wet weather, but I could never find any
problem anywhere. I eventually forked out tons of cash on a re-arming
RCD. If the problem went away, it re-armed. The punters sometimes
mentioned short outages and that was that.

Then a couple of months ago I finally managed to reproduce it! Woohoo!
Traced it to the tiniest bit of damp in a garage socket. Couldn't even
see where it had come from.

Very tricky.

Also recently my wife tripped out the mains when steam-cleaning with the
2 year old Kärcher. I took it apart and found a tiny leak to earth from
one of the heater elements. Paid 170€ for a new boiler (they don't sell
the bits separately) and all is well.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

El Sun, 02 Apr 2023 21:41:34 +0100, YTC#1 escribió:

> We have a long standing issue with the fridge drain blocking.
> Right, you have given me an excuse to get a new fridge.

Beat you to it. Bought one today. Well, the wife did. Beer cooling as we
speak.

--
Paul.

https://paulc.es

On 03/04/2023 18:51, Paul Carmichael wrote:
> El Sun, 02 Apr 2023 21:41:34 +0100, YTC#1 escribió:
>
>> We have a long standing issue with the fridge drain blocking.
>> Right, you have given me an excuse to get a new fridge.
>
> Beat you to it. Bought one today. Well, the wife did. Beer cooling as we
> speak.
>

You will know from my past decison making via this medium how I spend
ages (usually) comparing options.

This is mainly because I like to actually see something before buying it.

But you will be happy to hear that the shortlist is down to 4 :-)
I just need Jean to make the final decision.

Currently the beer can chill outside still.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Sun, 2 Apr 2023 23:24:32 -0000 (UTC), wessie
<willnotwork@tesco.net> wrote:

>the piss on your electric blanket dried out

Heh.

--

-Pip

On 03/04/2023 11:45, YTC#1 wrote:
>
> Fridge/Freezer reasearch on going.......

De-humidifiers are not excruciatingly expensive to run, and very efficient.

By-product of mostly de-ionised water useful, too.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 03/04/2023 22:52, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 03/04/2023 11:45, YTC#1 wrote:
>>
>> Fridge/Freezer reasearch on going.......
>
> De-humidifiers are not excruciatingly expensive to run, and very efficient.
>
> By-product of mostly de-ionised water useful, too.
>

Why the fuck have you followed up a fridge freezer statement with
bollocks about de-humidifiers?

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 04/04/2023 08:50, YTC#1 wrote:
>
>
> On 03/04/2023 22:52, RustyHinge wrote:
>> On 03/04/2023 11:45, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>
>>> Fridge/Freezer reasearch on going.......
>>
>> De-humidifiers are not excruciatingly expensive to run, and very
>> efficient.
>>
>> By-product of mostly de-ionised water useful, too.
>>
>
> Why the fuck have you followed up a fridge freezer statement with
> bollocks about de-humidifiers?

Because (for the benefit of anyone who hasn't read a bit upthread, and
you haven't quoted), I was following up on damp spots around electrics.

Simple.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 04/04/2023 09:41, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 04/04/2023 08:50, YTC#1 wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 03/04/2023 22:52, RustyHinge wrote:
>>> On 03/04/2023 11:45, YTC#1 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Fridge/Freezer reasearch on going.......
>>>
>>> De-humidifiers are not excruciatingly expensive to run, and very
>>> efficient.
>>>
>>> By-product of mostly de-ionised water useful, too.
>>>
>>
>> Why the fuck have you followed up a fridge freezer statement with
>> bollocks about de-humidifiers?
>
> Because (for the benefit of anyone who hasn't read a bit upthread, and
> you haven't quoted), I was following up on damp spots around electrics.
>
This may be difficult for you to understand, but *you* are meant to
quote the relevent bit *and* reply to the bit of the thread you are
refering to.

> Simple.
>
Yes, you are.

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 4/4/2023 3:37 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 04/04/2023 09:41, RustyHinge wrote:
>
>> Simple.
>>
> Yes, you are.
>
Who are you again?

--
The erstwhile Thomas
FJR1300, R1200GS & ST1100 (in memoriam)

On 04/04/2023 16:47, Turby wrote:
> On 4/4/2023 3:37 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 04/04/2023 09:41, RustyHinge wrote:
>>
>>> Simple.
>>>
>> Yes, you are.
>>
> Who are you again?
>
>

Someone who knows the difference between a T and an S? :-)

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On 05/04/2023 08:32, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 04/04/2023 16:47, Turby wrote:
>> On 4/4/2023 3:37 AM, YTC#1 wrote:
>>> On 04/04/2023 09:41, RustyHinge wrote:
>>>
>>>> Simple.
>>>>
>>> Yes, you are.
>>>
>> Who are you again?
>>
>
>  Someone who knows the difference between a T and an S? :-)

Timple?

YTC#1 wrote:

> the Solar battery will be installed later this week.

Are you retrofitting a battery to an existing solar system?

What capacity is the battery set-up and how much is it costing?

--
Simon

On 20/04/2023 12:32, sweller wrote:
> YTC#1 wrote:
>
>> the Solar battery will be installed later this week.
>
> Are you retrofitting a battery to an existing solar system?

There appears to be an "and" missing.
New solar and battery installation. All up and running now :-)
>
> What capacity is the battery set-up and how much is it costing?

Battery is 3.3kWh (£2126)
Solar is 2.8kWH

>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Thursday, 20 April 2023 at 13:26:35 UTC+1, YTC#1 wrote:
> On 20/04/2023 12:32, sweller wrote:
> > YTC#1 wrote:
> >
> >> the Solar battery will be installed later this week.
> >
> > Are you retrofitting a battery to an existing solar system?
> There appears to be an "and" missing.
> New solar and battery installation. All up and running now :-)
> >
> > What capacity is the battery set-up and how much is it costing?
> Battery is 3.3kWh (£2126)
> Solar is 2.8kWH

Battery sizing is really tricky.

I went with the smallest size my vendor offered (which was 5.6kWh).
My use is generally 'around' 15-30kWh per day, depends on whether I
do laundry, use the oven, charge the car etc etc.

Since the beginning of April I've been charging the battery (at cheap
rates) to 50% of capacity between 00:30 and 04:30 then running the house
from the battery from 4:31 to 00:29. The battery slowly discharges then
as the sun picks up it charges again from the panels. Net-net is that
this month 94% of my consumption has been off-peak (00:30-04:30) and
means my average rate for purchased electricity is about 9p/kWh.

The battery has also allowed me to charge my car from solar during the
day. The car charger will peak at around 4kW. The panels peak at around
6kW but a drift of clouds and it's down to 1kW or so. Having a charged battery
to buffer this allows the charger to draw power from the battery rather than
the mains for the period the sun's obscured by clouds. Same applies to other
steady uses such as tumble dryer / oven.

However... as the days shorten the ability to shift usage off-peak and to
run the house from the battery shrinks so I *think* I'm likely to expand
my battery to 11.2kWh. Which will cost me about £2k ish.

I'm not convinced this necessarily makes financial sense. I think that I
save maybe a pound a day by doing this (cheap rate purchased, use time
shifted)but only for the 'shorter' 4-6 months of the year so *maybe* £150 a year.
It would, of course maximise the 'own' use of solar power in the other months
and this month (for example) I've exported 100kWh but purchased 160kWh;
Scaling this up for the whole month I'd have saved maybe another £8, call it a
tenner so maybe overall a larger battery would save me around £200-250 a
year; I think the payback of around 10 years (by which time there's a fair chance
the cells would need replacing) makes it a *little* questionable on a financial
basis.

Of course, this all relies on a suitable off-peak tariff to make it work.

Short version on battery sizing, I think it makes sense to have a battery that
covers maybe a half of your daily use. (plus, don't forget that the battery
shouldn't ever be fully discharged, I set mine to stop discharging when it's
at 11% of capacity so the *useable* size and theoretical size are two different
things!)

Regarding Simon's question on 'how much for the battery' you'll need to
cost both the battery and the associated hybrid inverter (hybrid since it's
both an inverter and a 'battery manager'. My hybrid inverter (5kW) cost
'around' £1500, a similar model that doesn't manage a battery cost £600.
So I think the total cost of my battery solution was something like £3..5k.

Stephen Packer wrote:

> Regarding Simon's question on 'how much for the battery' you'll need
> to cost both the battery and the associated hybrid inverter (hybrid
> since it's both an inverter and a 'battery manager'. My hybrid
> inverter (5kW) cost 'around' £1500, a similar model that doesn't
> manage a battery cost £600. So I think the total cost of my battery
> solution was something like £3.5k.

Ah, I didn't realise that the inverter was different for battery and
non-battery systems. I had assumed that the battery came with a
manager.

My system is a 3.6 KWh non-battery.

--
Simon