On 20/04/2023 15:18, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Thursday, 20 April 2023 at 13:26:35 UTC+1, YTC#1 wrote:
>> On 20/04/2023 12:32, sweller wrote:
>>> YTC#1 wrote:
>>>
>>>> the Solar battery will be installed later this week.
>>>
>>> Are you retrofitting a battery to an existing solar system?
>> There appears to be an "and" missing.
>> New solar and battery installation. All up and running now :-)
>>>
>>> What capacity is the battery set-up and how much is it costing?
>> Battery is 3.3kWh (£2126)
>> Solar is 2.8kWH
>
> Battery sizing is really tricky.
>
> I went with the smallest size my vendor offered (which was 5.6kWh).
I let them (GSL) do it all.
Original survey said 6 panels and 2.5kWh battery.
But when then checked we could have 7 panels they upped the battery t
3.3 (which reduced the price by £100???), so I presume they calc on what
your use is V generation.

They reckon we will get around 33%pa reducing by solar+battery

> My use is generally 'around' 15-30kWh per day, depends on whether I
> do laundry, use the oven, charge the car etc etc.

6-9kWh/day (pre-solar)
Now we try to use the washing machine and dryer at peak gen times (sad
eh :-) )

>
> Since the beginning of April I've been charging the battery (at cheap
> rates) to 50% of capacity between 00:30 and 04:30 then running the house

Ah, we are on a single rate.

> from the battery from 4:31 to 00:29. The battery slowly discharges then
> as the sun picks up it charges again from the panels. Net-net is that
> this month 94% of my consumption has been off-peak (00:30-04:30) and
> means my average rate for purchased electricity is about 9p/kWh.
That's damn good.

>
> The battery has also allowed me to charge my car from solar during the
> day. The car charger will peak at around 4kW. The panels peak at around
> 6kW but a drift of clouds and it's down to 1kW or so. Having a charged battery

We peak at 2.8kWh, so depend on the battery charging 1st

> to buffer this allows the charger to draw power from the battery rather than
> the mains for the period the sun's obscured by clouds. Same applies to other

Pink Floyd were before their time

> steady uses such as tumble dryer / oven.
>
> However... as the days shorten the ability to shift usage off-peak and to
> run the house from the battery shrinks so I *think* I'm likely to expand
> my battery to 11.2kWh. Which will cost me about £2k ish.

Only useful because you charge from grid at low rate?

>
> I'm not convinced this necessarily makes financial sense. I think that I
<snip>

> tenner so maybe overall a larger battery would save me around £200-250 a
> year; I think the payback of around 10 years (by which time there's a fair chance
> the cells would need replacing) makes it a *little* questionable on a financial
> basis.

I think buying the new fridge will save me that much this year :-)
>
> Of course, this all relies on a suitable off-peak tariff to make it work.
>
>
> Short version on battery sizing, I think it makes sense to have a battery that
> covers maybe a half of your daily use. (plus, don't forget that the battery

Only if yiu can get a charge in it, SE facing roof......

> shouldn't ever be fully discharged, I set mine to stop discharging when it's
> at 11% of capacity so the *useable* size and theoretical size are two different
> things!)

It stops at 9% (installer setting)

>
>

--
Bruce Porter
"The internet is a huge and diverse community but mainly friendly"
http://ytc1.blogspot.co.uk/
There *is* an alternative! http://www.openoffice.org/

On Thursday, 20 April 2023 at 17:20:47 UTC+1, sweller wrote:
> Stephen Packer wrote:
>
> > Regarding Simon's question on 'how much for the battery' you'll need
> > to cost both the battery and the associated hybrid inverter (hybrid
> > since it's both an inverter and a 'battery manager'. My hybrid
> > inverter (5kW) cost 'around' £1500, a similar model that doesn't
> > manage a battery cost £600. So I think the total cost of my battery
> > solution was something like £3.5k.
> Ah, I didn't realise that the inverter was different for battery and
> non-battery systems. I had assumed that the battery came with a
> manager.
>
> My system is a 3.6 KWh non-battery.

On reflection there may well be standalone battery systems that don't
connect into any existing panels. I've not looked at those though.
I also suspect they'd be (slightly) less efficient.

On 20/04/2023 15:18, Stephen Packer wrote:

/snippety-snip/

> The battery has also allowed me to charge my car from solar during the
> day. The car charger will peak at around 4kW. The panels peak at around
> 6kW but a drift of clouds and it's down to 1kW or so. Having a charged battery
> to buffer this allows the charger to draw power from the battery rather than
> the mains for the period the sun's obscured by clouds. Same applies to other
> steady uses such as tumble dryer / oven.

My sister uses a dehumidifier and it is a *lot* cheaper to run than a
rumblegrinder.

Of course, one has the cluttering draping of damp cloth and it's not so
fast but...

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 21/04/2023 11:03 RustyHinge penned these words:
> On 20/04/2023 15:18, Stephen Packer wrote:
>
> /snippety-snip/
>
>> The battery has also allowed me to charge my car from solar during the
>> day. The car charger will peak at around 4kW. The panels peak at around
>> 6kW but a drift of clouds and it's down to 1kW or so. Having a charged battery
>> to buffer this allows the charger to draw power from the battery rather than
>> the mains for the period the sun's obscured by clouds. Same applies to other
>> steady uses such as tumble dryer / oven.
>
> My sister uses a dehumidifier and it is a *lot* cheaper to run than a
> rumblegrinder.

Some years back a work colleague had a gas tumble dryer, obv the drum was
electric but the heat source was gas. Maybe he still does lost contact when
changed jobs a couple of times and then country. At the time it was way cheaper
than electric dryers to run.

> Of course, one has the cluttering draping of damp cloth and it's not so
> fast but...

Despite the dehumidifier you'll still be encouraging damp & mould. In the
absence of sunshine and dry days I guess an vented dryer is the only real option.

--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On 20/04/2023 17:20, sweller wrote:

>
> My system is a 3.6 KWh non-battery.
>

In that case you can add an ac coupled battery and inverter, I have a
6.5kW (5.75 usable) ac coupled battery which cost about £3.5k.

It eliminates all but 450kWh of my grid import.

Hybrid inverters work out cheaper for fresh installs and have the
benefit of working during a power cut.

On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 14:07:04 +0800, Boots
<news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:

>On 21/04/2023 11:03 RustyHinge penned these words:
>> On 20/04/2023 15:18, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>
>> /snippety-snip/
>>
>>> The battery has also allowed me to charge my car from solar during the
>>> day. The car charger will peak at around 4kW. The panels peak at around
>>> 6kW but a drift of clouds and it's down to 1kW or so. Having a charged battery
>>> to buffer this allows the charger to draw power from the battery rather than
>>> the mains for the period the sun's obscured by clouds. Same applies to other
>>> steady uses such as tumble dryer / oven.
>>
>> My sister uses a dehumidifier and it is a *lot* cheaper to run than a
>> rumblegrinder.

My parents had a gas dryer that relied entirely on convection -
clothes were draped over wooden bars that slotted in across the top.
Bars which occasionaly left brown lines on pale shirts.

--

-Pip

On 21/04/2023 09:07, Boots wrote:
>On 21/04/2023 11:03 RustyHinge penned these words:
<SNIP>
>>
>> My sister uses a dehumidifier and it is a *lot* cheaper to run than a
>> rumblegrinder.
>
>Some years back a work colleague had a gas tumble dryer, obv the drum was
>electric but the heat source was gas. Maybe he still does lost contact when
>changed jobs a couple of times and then country. At the time it was way cheaper
>than electric dryers to run.
>

I suspect the launderettes of my youth also had gas fired dryers, that
peculiar smell.

>> Of course, one has the cluttering draping of damp cloth and it's not so
>> fast but...
>
>Despite the dehumidifier you'll still be encouraging damp & mould. In the
>absence of sunshine and dry days I guess an vented dryer is the only real option.
>
>
We recently acquired a heat pump type dryer. No waste heat out the window,
it actually helps to dry the stuff hanging above it. I assume it also
de-humidifies, at least, the exhaust is drier than the inlet.

--
Geoff
NTV 650

On 21/04/2023 20:40, Pipl wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 14:07:04 +0800, Boots
> <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 21/04/2023 11:03 RustyHinge penned these words:
>>> On 20/04/2023 15:18, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>>
>>> /snippety-snip/
>>>
>>>> The battery has also allowed me to charge my car from solar during the
>>>> day. The car charger will peak at around 4kW. The panels peak at around
>>>> 6kW but a drift of clouds and it's down to 1kW or so. Having a charged battery
>>>> to buffer this allows the charger to draw power from the battery rather than
>>>> the mains for the period the sun's obscured by clouds. Same applies to other
>>>> steady uses such as tumble dryer / oven.
>>>
>>> My sister uses a dehumidifier and it is a *lot* cheaper to run than a
>>> rumblegrinder.
>
> My parents had a gas dryer that relied entirely on convection -
> clothes were draped over wooden bars that slotted in across the top.
> Bars which occasionaly left brown lines on pale shirts.

Bars should be of scamore, then no brown lines.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 23/04/2023 01:39, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 21/04/2023 20:40, Pipl wrote:
>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 14:07:04 +0800, Boots
>> <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> On 21/04/2023 11:03 RustyHinge penned these words:
>>>> On 20/04/2023 15:18, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>>>
>>>> /snippety-snip/
>>>>
>>>>> The battery has also allowed me to charge my car from solar during the
>>>>> day.  The car charger will peak at around 4kW.  The panels peak at
>>>>> around
>>>>> 6kW but a drift of clouds and it's down to 1kW or so.  Having a
>>>>> charged battery
>>>>> to buffer this allows the charger to draw power from the battery
>>>>> rather than
>>>>> the mains for the period the sun's obscured by clouds.  Same
>>>>> applies to other
>>>>> steady uses such as tumble dryer / oven.
>>>>
>>>> My sister uses a dehumidifier and it is a *lot* cheaper to run than a
>>>> rumblegrinder.
>>
>> My parents had a gas dryer that relied entirely on convection -
>> clothes were draped over wooden bars that slotted in across the top.
>> Bars which occasionaly left brown lines on pale shirts.
>
> Bars should be of scamore, then no brown lines.
>
DYM Sycamore?
Then, if so, interesting!

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 25/04/2023 16:00, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
> On 23/04/2023 01:39, RustyHinge wrote:
>> On 21/04/2023 20:40, Pipl wrote:
>>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 14:07:04 +0800, Boots
>>> <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 21/04/2023 11:03 RustyHinge penned these words:
>>>>> On 20/04/2023 15:18, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> /snippety-snip/
>>>>>
>>>>>> The battery has also allowed me to charge my car from solar during
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> day.  The car charger will peak at around 4kW.  The panels peak at
>>>>>> around
>>>>>> 6kW but a drift of clouds and it's down to 1kW or so.  Having a
>>>>>> charged battery
>>>>>> to buffer this allows the charger to draw power from the battery
>>>>>> rather than
>>>>>> the mains for the period the sun's obscured by clouds.  Same
>>>>>> applies to other
>>>>>> steady uses such as tumble dryer / oven.
>>>>>
>>>>> My sister uses a dehumidifier and it is a *lot* cheaper to run than a
>>>>> rumblegrinder.
>>>
>>> My parents had a gas dryer that relied entirely on convection -
>>> clothes were draped over wooden bars that slotted in across the top.
>>> Bars which occasionaly left brown lines on pale shirts.
>>
>> Bars should be of scamore, then no brown lines.
>>
> DYM Sycamore?
> Then, if so, interesting!

Yes - finger (not fingery) trouble

Sycamore is a truly white wood - used a lot for boards in cheesemaking.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 25/04/2023 19:02, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 25/04/2023 16:00, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
>> On 23/04/2023 01:39, RustyHinge wrote:
>>> On 21/04/2023 20:40, Pipl wrote:
>>>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 14:07:04 +0800, Boots
>>>> <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 21/04/2023 11:03 RustyHinge penned these words:
>>>>>> On 20/04/2023 15:18, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> /snippety-snip/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The battery has also allowed me to charge my car from solar
>>>>>>> during the
>>>>>>> day.  The car charger will peak at around 4kW.  The panels peak
>>>>>>> at around
>>>>>>> 6kW but a drift of clouds and it's down to 1kW or so.  Having a
>>>>>>> charged battery
>>>>>>> to buffer this allows the charger to draw power from the battery
>>>>>>> rather than
>>>>>>> the mains for the period the sun's obscured by clouds.  Same
>>>>>>> applies to other
>>>>>>> steady uses such as tumble dryer / oven.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My sister uses a dehumidifier and it is a *lot* cheaper to run than a
>>>>>> rumblegrinder.
>>>>
>>>> My parents had a gas dryer that relied entirely on convection -
>>>> clothes were draped over wooden bars that slotted in across the top.
>>>> Bars which occasionaly left brown lines on pale shirts.
>>>
>>> Bars should be of scamore, then no brown lines.
>>>
>> DYM Sycamore?
>> Then, if so, interesting!
>
> Yes - finger (not fingery) trouble
>
> Sycamore is a truly white wood - used a lot for boards in cheesemaking.
>
Ok thanks.
(I usually think of beech for kitchen stuff.)

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 26/04/2023 15:44, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
> On 25/04/2023 19:02, RustyHinge wrote:
>> On 25/04/2023 16:00, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
>>> On 23/04/2023 01:39, RustyHinge wrote:
>>>> On 21/04/2023 20:40, Pipl wrote:
>>>>> On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 14:07:04 +0800, Boots
>>>>> <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 21/04/2023 11:03 RustyHinge penned these words:
>>>>>>> On 20/04/2023 15:18, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> /snippety-snip/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The battery has also allowed me to charge my car from solar
>>>>>>>> during the
>>>>>>>> day.  The car charger will peak at around 4kW.  The panels peak
>>>>>>>> at around
>>>>>>>> 6kW but a drift of clouds and it's down to 1kW or so.  Having a
>>>>>>>> charged battery
>>>>>>>> to buffer this allows the charger to draw power from the battery
>>>>>>>> rather than
>>>>>>>> the mains for the period the sun's obscured by clouds.  Same
>>>>>>>> applies to other
>>>>>>>> steady uses such as tumble dryer / oven.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My sister uses a dehumidifier and it is a *lot* cheaper to run
>>>>>>> than a
>>>>>>> rumblegrinder.
>>>>>
>>>>> My parents had a gas dryer that relied entirely on convection -
>>>>> clothes were draped over wooden bars that slotted in across the top.
>>>>> Bars which occasionaly left brown lines on pale shirts.
>>>>
>>>> Bars should be of scamore, then no brown lines.
>>>>
>>> DYM Sycamore?
>>> Then, if so, interesting!
>>
>> Yes - finger (not fingery) trouble
>>
>> Sycamore is a truly white wood - used a lot for boards in cheesemaking.
>>
> Ok thanks.
> (I usually think of beech for kitchen stuff.)
Beech will flavour food. That *can* be as advantage, but for delicate
flavours, maybe not.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.