<font color="#d6d6d6">Just came across this - FB advertising - piqued my
interest.</font>
<font color="#d6d6d6"></font>
<font color="#d6d6d6">Any experience of this kind of thing? Concept looks good
as both visual and practical deterrent. Obviously fewer chances of dropping
your bike because you forget you had a disk lock...</font>
<font color="#d6d6d6"></font>
<font color="#d6d6d6">https://shorturl.at/fgFK6</font>
<font color="#d6d6d6"></font>
<font color="#d6d6d6">My gut feeling is that cheap security devices probably
don't offer a lot in terms of actual security...</font>

--
jeremy

On 13/04/2023 16:07 jeremy penned these words:
> <font color="#d6d6d6">Just came across this - FB advertising - piqued my
> interest.</font>
>
>
It's a wafer lock, about as secure as a cable tie. Whats' with all the HTML ?
--
Ian

"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of
the last priest"

On Thursday, 13 April 2023 at 10:48:05 UTC+1, Boots wrote:
> On 13/04/2023 16:07 jeremy penned these words:
> > <font color="#d6d6d6">Just came across this - FB advertising - piqued my
> > interest.</font>
> >
> >
> It's a wafer lock, about as secure as a cable tie. Whats' with all the HTML ?

Also... not sure I'd want to keep a hydraulic system pressurised on a regular
basis. I suspect it might encourage leaks and seals to fail with time.

Stephen Packer wrote:

> Also... not sure I'd want to keep a hydraulic system pressurised on a
> regular basis. I suspect it might encourage leaks and seals to fail
> with time.

On a different note - why does cable tying the brake lever to the bar
cure poorly bled brakes.

I can't see why it would, but it does - certainly has for me.

--
Simon

On 13/04/2023 14:32, sweller wrote:
> Stephen Packer wrote:
>
>> Also... not sure I'd want to keep a hydraulic system pressurised on a
>> regular basis. I suspect it might encourage leaks and seals to fail
>> with time.
>
> On a different note - why does cable tying the brake lever to the bar
> cure poorly bled brakes.
>
> I can't see why it would, but it does - certainly has for me.
>
Gives microscopic air bubbles the chance to surface in the reservoir?
Dunno, maybe something to do with dissolved bubbles (ie under pressure)
finding their way home?
Good question!

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

chrisnd @ukrm wrote:

> > On a different note - why does cable tying the brake lever to the
> > bar cure poorly bled brakes.
> >
> > I can't see why it would, but it does - certainly has for me.
> >
> Gives microscopic air bubbles the chance to surface in the reservoir?

With the brake/clutch applied the piston closes off the feed to/from
the reservoir.

> Dunno, maybe something to do with dissolved bubbles (ie under
> pressure) finding their way home?

I don't know where they would go. Perhaps the mental picture of the
system I have is wrong?

--
Simon

weller wrote:
> chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
>
> > > On a different note - why does cable tying the brake lever to the
> > > bar cure poorly bled brakes.
> > >
> > > I can't see why it would, but it does - certainly has for me.
> > >
> > Gives microscopic air bubbles the chance to surface in the reservoir?
>
> With the brake/clutch applied the piston closes off the feed to/from
> the reservoir.

Releasing the lever would reopen the feed and allow the bubbles to move up into the reservoir. But if the bubbles ain't at the top, they're not going anywhere.

> > Dunno, maybe something to do with dissolved bubbles (ie under
> > pressure) finding their way home?

Dissolved bubbles aren't bubbles, and dissolved gas should distribute evenly throughout the solvent, rather than floating upwards. Increasing the pressure in the system should only make the gas more likely to dissolve (c.f. nitrogen in blood when diving), and only come out of solution when the pressure is relieved.

My money's on good old fashioned witchcraft.

On 13 Apr 2023 at 10:38:47 BST, "Boots" <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk>
wrote:

> On 13/04/2023 16:07 jeremy penned these words:
>> <font color="#d6d6d6">Just came across this - FB advertising - piqued my
>> interest.</font>
>>
>>
> It's a wafer lock, about as secure as a cable tie.

Not surprising at that price - wondering about the principle though (and see
that has been questioned further down in this thread).

> Whats' with all the HTML ?

I have no idea - occasionally this client ("usenapp") seems to include HTML
(not that I see it when I am composing / no text effects - i.e. no clues that
there is anything other than plain text). I only see it is present after I
have posted the message.

Very odd.

--
jeremy

ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com> wrote in
news:a5057b6d-a9d6-456c-b905-00594a336cdcn@googlegroups.com:

> weller wrote:
>> chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
>>
>> > > On a different note - why does cable tying the brake lever to the
>> > > bar cure poorly bled brakes.
>> > >
>> > > I can't see why it would, but it does - certainly has for me.
>> > >
>> > Gives microscopic air bubbles the chance to surface in the
>> > reservoir?
>>
>> With the brake/clutch applied the piston closes off the feed to/from
>> the reservoir.
>
> Releasing the lever would reopen the feed and allow the bubbles to
> move up into the reservoir. But if the bubbles ain't at the top,
> they're not going anywhere.
>
>
>> > Dunno, maybe something to do with dissolved bubbles (ie under
>> > pressure) finding their way home?
>
> Dissolved bubbles aren't bubbles, and dissolved gas should distribute
> evenly throughout the solvent, rather than floating upwards.
> Increasing the pressure in the system should only make the gas more
> likely to dissolve (c.f. nitrogen in blood when diving), and only come
> out of solution when the pressure is relieved.
>
> My money's on good old fashioned witchcraft.
>

maybe, like the narks it is being under pressure for a sustained period,
a rapid decompression that causes dissolved gas to form big bubbles and
these big bubbles then float up to the reservoir.

On 13/04/2023 15:32, sweller wrote:
>Stephen Packer wrote:
>
>> Also... not sure I'd want to keep a hydraulic system pressurised on a
>> regular basis. I suspect it might encourage leaks and seals to fail
>> with time.
>
>On a different note - why does cable tying the brake lever to the bar
>cure poorly bled brakes.
>
>I can't see why it would, but it does - certainly has for me.

Yup, same with cars, force the brake pedal down with a plank and leave it
overnight.I suppose the air bubbles float up to the seal on the master
cylinder and then the pressure differential forces the air past the seal,
or summat.

--
Geoff
NTV 650

jeremy <jeremy0505@gmail.com> wrote in
news:k9qgg0FralrU1@mid.individual.net:

> On 13 Apr 2023 at 10:38:47 BST, "Boots"
> <news@millhouse-communications.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> On 13/04/2023 16:07 jeremy penned these words:
>>> <font color="#d6d6d6">Just came across this - FB advertising -
>>> piqued my interest.</font>
>>>
>>>
>> It's a wafer lock, about as secure as a cable tie.
>
> Not surprising at that price - wondering about the principle though
> (and see that has been questioned further down in this thread).
>
>> Whats' with all the HTML ?
>
> I have no idea - occasionally this client ("usenapp") seems to include
> HTML (not that I see it when I am composing / no text effects - i.e.
> no clues that there is anything other than plain text). I only see it
> is present after I have posted the message.
>
> Very odd.
>
>

just get a shouty disc lock - some have a certificate so they appear on
the insurance application as a valid device

or, as I am using, a padlock that can also be a disc lock. It came with
a yellow curly cord that slips over the clutch lever. This cord is
probably more substantial than your original device.

https://www.sportsbikeshop.co.uk/motorcycle_parts/content_prod/74294

at the very least, it might stop some fucker moving your bike out of a
parking bay to park their scooter when getting some lunch in Jaca.

On Thursday, 13 April 2023 at 15:02:45 UTC+1, ogden wrote:
> My money's on good old fashioned witchcraft.

The VoR speaks.

On 13 Apr 2023 13:32:30 GMT, "sweller" <sweller@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
wrote:

>Stephen Packer wrote:
>
>> Also... not sure I'd want to keep a hydraulic system pressurised on a
>> regular basis. I suspect it might encourage leaks and seals to fail
>> with time.
>
>On a different note - why does cable tying the brake lever to the bar
>cure poorly bled brakes.
>
>I can't see why it would, but it does - certainly has for me.

I've wondered this, and came up with two theories:

It might cause the slave seals to creep up the pistons a little over
time, thus taking up any slack that might have built up. In which
case, if they keep up well with brake pad wear, the effect wouldn't be
so noticeable.

Possibly deforming/stretching other elastomeric parts so there is less
give when the brakes are used.

--

-Pip

On Thursday, 13 April 2023 at 20:32:17 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:
> On 13 Apr 2023 13:32:30 GMT, "sweller" <swe...@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
> wrote:

> I've wondered this, and came up with two theories:
>
> It might cause the slave seals to creep up the pistons a little over
> time, thus taking up any slack that might have built up. In which
> case, if they keep up well with brake pad wear, the effect wouldn't be
> so noticeable.
>
> Possibly deforming/stretching other elastomeric parts so there is less
> give when the brakes are used.

I'm sure it's about somehow getting air bubbles out rather than reseating
components.

Maybe the air bubbles rise (over the time the line is pressurised) to the top
of the hose, next to the master cylinder, because air's lighter than brake fluid.
Then, when you release the lever (and open the reservoir to the
the line) the inrush of fluid (from the pressure) drives the bubbles out
of the line/cylinder and into the reservoir where they float to the top, to
be replaced by brake fluid in the cylinder ready to be driven into the line
when the brakes are next operated?

On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:02:27 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
<stephen.packer@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Thursday, 13 April 2023 at 20:32:17 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:
>> On 13 Apr 2023 13:32:30 GMT, "sweller" <swe...@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>
>> I've wondered this, and came up with two theories:
>>
>> It might cause the slave seals to creep up the pistons a little over
>> time, thus taking up any slack that might have built up. In which
>> case, if they keep up well with brake pad wear, the effect wouldn't be
>> so noticeable.
>>
>> Possibly deforming/stretching other elastomeric parts so there is less
>> give when the brakes are used.
>
>I'm sure it's about somehow getting air bubbles out rather than reseating
>components.
>
>Maybe the air bubbles rise (over the time the line is pressurised) to the top
>of the hose, next to the master cylinder, because air's lighter than brake fluid.
>Then, when you release the lever (and open the reservoir to the
>the line) the inrush of fluid (from the pressure) drives the bubbles out
>of the line/cylinder and into the reservoir where they float to the top, to
>be replaced by brake fluid in the cylinder ready to be driven into the line
>when the brakes are next operated?

I guess it depends on how bubble behave under increased pressure. I'd
have thought that smaller bubble = less bouyancy. But maybe smaller
bubble = less circumference for surface tension to stick, but then
again, the reduced volume / bouyancy should follow a cube law vs a
linear effect.

Maybe they dissolve more readily under pressure, which means that it's
only a short-term effect.

--

-Pip

On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 21:46:51 +0100, Pipl <pluscher@live.co.uk> wrote:

> Maybe they [small bubbles] dissolve more readily under pressure,
> which means that it's only a short-term effect.

Great minds ....

As we all know, the constituent gases in air are soluble to differing
degrees in brake fluid. If their partial pressure in solution is
greater than their partial pressure in air, they come out of solution.
Elementary!

By pressurizing the brake system, you're forcing (the constituents of) air
into solution. Thus, any bubbles present would dissolve. This
doesn't happen instantly. Hence the requirement to keep it under
pressure indefinitely....

Releasing the pressure causes the brake fluid to be supersaturated,
but this doesn't necessarily result (immediately) in froth because the
brake system is "hypogenically clean" (At least mine is.) and there
are no nucleation sites where new bubbles might form.

--
Worst Case

On Thursday, 13 April 2023 at 21:46:53 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:02:27 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Maybe they dissolve more readily under pressure, which means that it's
> only a short-term effect.

It's certainly not a short term effect in my experience. When I've needed to
employ it then the brakes are fine until the next time I remove the caliper
or do whatever introduces air into the system.

Next time I do it (if I remember) I'll pay particular attention to what happens
in the reservoir when I release the lever.

Of course... it could be that in many cases 'just stop fucking around with
it and leave it to settle' is the effect we're seeing and the fact the brakes
were left 'on' is irrelevant; time's been the great healer and raiser of air
bubbles to the reservoir where they gracefully exit the hydraulic
system.

On 13/04/2023 16:43, wessie wrote:
> ogden <eldaifo@gmail.com> wrote in
> news:a5057b6d-a9d6-456c-b905-00594a336cdcn@googlegroups.com:
>
>> weller wrote:
>>> chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
>>>
>>>>> On a different note - why does cable tying the brake lever to the
>>>>> bar cure poorly bled brakes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I can't see why it would, but it does - certainly has for me.
>>>>>
>>>> Gives microscopic air bubbles the chance to surface in the
>>>> reservoir?
>>>
>>> With the brake/clutch applied the piston closes off the feed to/from
>>> the reservoir.
>>
>> Releasing the lever would reopen the feed and allow the bubbles to
>> move up into the reservoir. But if the bubbles ain't at the top,
>> they're not going anywhere.
>>
>>
>>>> Dunno, maybe something to do with dissolved bubbles (ie under
>>>> pressure) finding their way home?
>>
>> Dissolved bubbles aren't bubbles, and dissolved gas should distribute
>> evenly throughout the solvent, rather than floating upwards.
>> Increasing the pressure in the system should only make the gas more
>> likely to dissolve (c.f. nitrogen in blood when diving), and only come
>> out of solution when the pressure is relieved.
>>
>> My money's on good old fashioned witchcraft.
>>
>
> maybe, like the narks it is being under pressure for a sustained period,
> a rapid decompression that causes dissolved gas to form big bubbles and
> these big bubbles then float up to the reservoir.

No, if the bubbles were fully dissolved then they would reappear
throughout the liquid - in short, being back you started. I think the
actual answer is later in thjs thread...

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 13/04/2023 21:02, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Thursday, 13 April 2023 at 20:32:17 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:
>> On 13 Apr 2023 13:32:30 GMT, "sweller" <swe...@mztech.fsnet.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>
>> I've wondered this, and came up with two theories:
>>
>> It might cause the slave seals to creep up the pistons a little over
>> time, thus taking up any slack that might have built up. In which
>> case, if they keep up well with brake pad wear, the effect wouldn't be
>> so noticeable.
>>
>> Possibly deforming/stretching other elastomeric parts so there is less
>> give when the brakes are used.
>
> I'm sure it's about somehow getting air bubbles out rather than reseating
> components.

Indeed, I agree

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 14/04/2023 09:42, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Thursday, 13 April 2023 at 21:46:53 UTC+1, Pipl wrote:
>> On Thu, 13 Apr 2023 13:02:27 -0700 (PDT), Stephen Packer
>> <stephen...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Maybe they dissolve more readily under pressure, which means that it's
>> only a short-term effect.
>
<snip>>
> Next time I do it (if I remember) I'll pay particular attention to what happens
> in the reservoir when I release the lever.

Usually I see air bubbles pop up. Leave it a while then repeat - more
bubbles.... etc

> Of course... it could be that in many cases 'just stop fucking around with
> it and leave it to settle' is the effect we're seeing and the fact the brakes
> were left 'on' is irrelevant; time's been the great healer and raiser of air
> bubbles to the reservoir where they gracefully exit the hydraulic
> system.

<ding> This, I think, is the answer.

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 14/04/2023 13:05, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
> On 14/04/2023 09:42, Stephen Packer wrote:
>
>> Of course...  it could be that in many cases 'just stop fucking around
>> with
>> it and leave it to settle' is the effect we're seeing and the fact the
>> brakes
>> were left 'on' is irrelevant; time's been the great healer and raiser
>> of air
>> bubbles to the reservoir where they gracefully exit the hydraulic
>> system.
>
> <ding>  This, I think, is the answer.

If that were the case, then just leaving it the fuck alone would cause a
spongy brake to firm up; it doesn't.

--
Eddie eddie@deguello.org

On Friday, 14 April 2023 at 14:06:12 UTC+1, Eddie wrote:
> On 14/04/2023 13:05, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
> > On 14/04/2023 09:42, Stephen Packer wrote:
> >
> >> Of course... it could be that in many cases 'just stop fucking around
> >> with
> >> it and leave it to settle' is the effect we're seeing and the fact the
> >> brakes
> >> were left 'on' is irrelevant; time's been the great healer and raiser
> >> of air
> >> bubbles to the reservoir where they gracefully exit the hydraulic
> >> system.
> >
> > <ding> This, I think, is the answer.
> If that were the case, then just leaving it the fuck alone would cause a
> spongy brake to firm up; it doesn't.

Damn. Good point.

Maybe in the case that the spongy brake is because of air in the caliper it
wouldn't 'rise to the reservoir' but in the case of air in the line it would?

On 14/04/2023 14:06, Eddie wrote:
> On 14/04/2023 13:05, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
>> On 14/04/2023 09:42, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>
>>> Of course...  it could be that in many cases 'just stop fucking
>>> around with
>>> it and leave it to settle' is the effect we're seeing and the fact
>>> the brakes
>>> were left 'on' is irrelevant; time's been the great healer and raiser
>>> of air
>>> bubbles to the reservoir where they gracefully exit the hydraulic
>>> system.
>>
>> <ding>  This, I think, is the answer.
>
> If that were the case, then just leaving it the fuck alone would cause a
> spongy brake to firm up; it doesn't.
>
Some do
Equally, many don't!

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 14/04/2023 15:15, Stephen Packer wrote:
> On Friday, 14 April 2023 at 14:06:12 UTC+1, Eddie wrote:
>> On 14/04/2023 13:05, chrisnd @ukrm wrote:
>>> On 14/04/2023 09:42, Stephen Packer wrote:
>>>
>>>> Of course... it could be that in many cases 'just stop fucking around
>>>> with
>>>> it and leave it to settle' is the effect we're seeing and the fact the
>>>> brakes
>>>> were left 'on' is irrelevant; time's been the great healer and raiser
>>>> of air
>>>> bubbles to the reservoir where they gracefully exit the hydraulic
>>>> system.
>>>
>>> <ding> This, I think, is the answer.
>> If that were the case, then just leaving it the fuck alone would cause a
>> spongy brake to firm up; it doesn't.
>
> Damn. Good point.

+1

> Maybe in the case that the spongy brake is because of air in the caliper it
> wouldn't 'rise to the reservoir' but in the case of air in the line it would?

That would explain it. M'lud.

Chris
--
The Deuchars BBB#40 COFF#14
Yamaha XV750SE & Suzuki GS550t
http://www.Deuchars.org.uk

On 13/04/2023 10:38, Boots wrote:
> On 13/04/2023 16:07 jeremy penned these words:
>> <font color="#d6d6d6">Just came across this - FB advertising - piqued my
>> interest.</font>
>>
>>
> It's a wafer lock, about as secure as a cable tie. Whats' with all the HTML ?

The same lock appears on Amazon with a selection of brand names that
look like random letters drawn from a Scrabble bad by Arthur Dent and
his stone-age friend.

One review reads that the lock was prised open.