On 26-Dec-22 22:48, RustyHinge wrote:
> On 26/12/2022 20:17, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 25-Dec-22 20:33, Tim+ wrote:
>>> John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>> On 25/12/2022 10:55, soup wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Wouldn't have thought ANY of the unlocking shops , knowing the SIM
>>>>> number or anything like that would work.  What you you seem to want to
>>>>> do is get her password and thus access her phone all the unlocking
>>>>> will
>>>>> do is mean you aren't tied to a specific company .
>>>>> This seems way illegal to me if she doesn't give you direct access
>>>>> (which she can't do)  (IANAL SHPOS)
>>>>>
>>>> As she is dead, the administers of her estate are acting as if they
>>>> were
>>>> her, just as I did while I was sorting stuff out after my brother died.
>>>> I had full access to his bank and card accounts, and even received some
>>>> refunds from places where he had to pay in advance and hadn't used the
>>>> services. I used the refunds to pay off some of his debts...
>>>
>>> If her wish was to keep certain information private, then the
>>> administrators should respect this unless there is a legally compelling
>>> reason why they should override this wish. Setting up a lock code on a
>>> phone is surely a declaration of intent to keep information private.
>>>
>>> I’m not sure that this falls into the same category as releasing
>>> funds to
>>> pay off debts etc.
>>
>> ??
>> In my (limited) experience, _all_ phones tend to be locked via a PIN.
>> If not all phones, then it is certainly the default condition.
>> Your approach only makes sense if locking her phone was some
>> extraordinary step she took to maintain security beyond any normal
>> degree.
>
> AIUI all new phones are now unlocked - by Yurpean directive, before we
> brexited. The previous 'lockings' were to network, not access of content.
>
No. That's a different topic altogether.

We're not talking about locking to a network (for what's it's worth, I
have never bought a 'locked' phone), but locking your phone with a PIN
(or facial recognition, or a fingerprint) so someone else cannot pick it
up and use it.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 27/12/2022 18:14, Tim+ wrote:
> Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:622607454.693783066.320818.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net:
>>
>>>
>>> I must admit to being surprised at how casually posters here seem to
>>> be treating the privacy of the deceased.
>>
>> I tend to think that privacy of the deceased is a rather tenuous notion.
>> They are dead, gorn, shuffled of this mortal coil. They are no longer aware
>> of the concept of privacy, nor are they in a position to care.
>>
>
> But before death they might have been concerned about how the will be
> remembered. They might not want their kinky porn collection accessed after
> their death.
>
If so, it was up to them to clean up the phone or not put stuff on it to
start with. It is also possible to make a secret partition that can only
be accessed by using a different password if you are that paranoid, set
to wipe if the wrong one is entered even once. The Paranoid Android
operating system is available on a few phones and is spreading.

> Now of course they’re in no position to “care” as such after death but
> would you really want to know that your mother/father had some seriously
> dubious tastes?
>
That was their right, and only my problem if I make it so or they tried
to force them on me. I might even be tempted to try their kinks out.
(Semicolon dash close bracket )

I would, however, quite like to know if there were any half siblings as
a result of said kinks that might be entitled to part of the estate
especially if their other parent knows the phone number. Is saving your
embarrassment worth potentially losing all your inheritance for not
properly doing your job as administrator of probate?

If you appoint a third party as administrator, they won't even think
twice before they look for a way into even the most heavily locked and
encrypted phone, just as they'd be on the phone to a locksmith if there
was a safe with no known combination.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 27/12/2022 18:14, Tim+ wrote:
>> Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>>> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote in
>>> news:622607454.693783066.320818.tim.downie-gmail.com@news.individual.net:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I must admit to being surprised at how casually posters here seem to
>>>> be treating the privacy of the deceased.
>>>
>>> I tend to think that privacy of the deceased is a rather tenuous notion.
>>> They are dead, gorn, shuffled of this mortal coil. They are no longer aware
>>> of the concept of privacy, nor are they in a position to care.
>>>
>>
>> But before death they might have been concerned about how the will be
>> remembered. They might not want their kinky porn collection accessed after
>> their death.
>>
> If so, it was up to them to clean up the phone or not put stuff on it to
> start with.

Well that’s maybe what you or I would do but others might just lock it with
a PIN and not tell anyone the code. Not everyone is savvy enough to know
how accessible information might be.

> It is also possible to make a secret partition that can only
> be accessed by using a different password if you are that paranoid, set
> to wipe if the wrong one is entered even once. The Paranoid Android
> operating system is available on a few phones and is spreading.
>
>> Now of course they’re in no position to “care” as such after death but
>> would you really want to know that your mother/father had some seriously
>> dubious tastes?
>>
> That was their right, and only my problem if I make it so or they tried
> to force them on me. I might even be tempted to try their kinks out.
> (Semicolon dash close bracket )
>
> I would, however, quite like to know if there were any half siblings as
> a result of said kinks that might be entitled to part of the estate
> especially if their other parent knows the phone number. Is saving your
> embarrassment worth potentially losing all your inheritance for not
> properly doing your job as administrator of probate?
>
> If you appoint a third party as administrator, they won't even think
> twice before they look for a way into even the most heavily locked and
> encrypted phone, just as they'd be on the phone to a locksmith if there
> was a safe with no known combination.

Do you *know* this or is this just supposition? I don’t think an
administrators duties/rights extend to searching locked phones for data.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 27/12/2022 20:12, Tim+ wrote:

> Do you *know* this or is this just supposition? I don’t think an
> administrators duties/rights extend to searching locked phones for data.
>
> Tim
>
I had the "joy" of administering my youngest brother's estate and helped
administer that of another dead brother. Mum employed an professional to
sort Dad's estate out.

As the youngest was severely allergic to filling in paperwork of any
sort, *all* the stuff I needed was either in his phone or his PC (Which
I had set up for him when I gave it to him, conveniently forgetting to
tell him about the back door I had installed.)

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
> On 27/12/2022 20:12, Tim+ wrote:
>
>> Do you *know* this or is this just supposition? I don’t think an
>> administrators duties/rights extend to searching locked phones for data.
>>
>> Tim
>>
> I had the "joy" of administering my youngest brother's estate and helped
> administer that of another dead brother. Mum employed an professional to
> sort Dad's estate out.
>
> As the youngest was severely allergic to filling in paperwork of any
> sort, *all* the stuff I needed was either in his phone or his PC (Which
> I had set up for him when I gave it to him, conveniently forgetting to
> tell him about the back door I had installed.)
>

Hmm, just because you did something doesn’t make it right. Sounds like a
serious infringement of his right to privacy. I’m not sure the ends
(sorting out the estate) justifies the means no matter how well
intentioned.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

On 27/12/2022 2
> Hmm, just because you did something doesn’t make it right. Sounds like a
> serious infringement of his right to privacy. I’m not sure the ends
> (sorting out the estate) justifies the means no matter how well
> intentioned.
>
What rights can a dead person possibly have, apart from a vague feeling
of yours that they should not to be subjected to undue disrespect after
their death?

If you feel that way about *your* data, then I'm sure you can make sure
that not even GCHQ can access it. A PIN on a phone is like installing a
cheap lock on your front door, and about as secure, then worrying about
why the Ambulance service can't get in to save your life. A similar
attitude to my brother's personal privacy, generated by his hermit like
lifestyle, meant that his body wasn't found for a month after his death.
The doors were locked, and it was only when the police broke in (Cracked
the PIN on the house door, if you like that analogy) That they found his
remains.

Had my brother not had the rudeness to die, I would not have touched his
data, and nobody would ever have known about the back door. As it was,
people were chasing him (me) for money.after his death and I had to
prove there was none. To do that, I had to open his phone and computer
to prove there were no secret bank accounts.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 27/12/2022 18:14, Tim+ wrote:
> Peter <myshed@prune.org.uk> wrote:
>> Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote in

>
> Now of course they’re in no position to “care” as such after death but
> would you really want to know that your mother/father had some seriously
> dubious tastes?
>
> Tim
>

My old man certainly did. Most of it was around abusing me.

I wish I could erase the memory.

Tone

On 27/12/2022 19:46, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
> My mother married my father.
> I don't hold it against her.
>
> --
> Sam Plusnet

Mine also, but she regretted it and divorced him when she was in her mid
sixties and finally had proof of what he was up to.

Tone

On 27/12/2022 20:29, Tim+ wrote:
> Hmm, just because you did something doesn’t make it right. Sounds like a
> serious infringement of his right to privacy. I’m not sure the ends
> (sorting out the estate) justifies the means no matter how well
> intentioned.
>
> Tim

If nowt else comes out of this thread, I have now determined to give my
youngest brother (my executer, not executioner) 18 years younger than
me, a list of all my pins and passwords to anything that might involve
money. I thought I'd post it as registered mail, 'Do not open except in
the case of death'.

Luckily he is trustworthy and would hide it in a safe place.

Tone

In article <togi98$3slth$5@dont-email.me>, Tone <tone@email.com> on
Wed, 28 Dec 2022 at 04:56:05 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>On 27/12/2022 20:29, Tim+ wrote:
>> Hmm, just because you did something doesn’t make it right. Sounds like a
>> serious infringement of his right to privacy. I’m not sure the ends
>> (sorting out the estate) justifies the means no matter how well
>> intentioned.
>>
>> Tim
>
>If nowt else comes out of this thread, I have now determined to give my
>youngest brother (my executer, not executioner) 18 years younger than
>me, a list of all my pins and passwords to anything that might involve
>money. I thought I'd post it as registered mail, 'Do not open except in
>the case of death'.
>
>Luckily he is trustworthy and would hide it in a safe place.
>
>Tone
Is he trustworthy enough to live longer than you?

It is a problem that my brother, SWMBO and myself seriously have to
consider.

SWMBO probably would have problems using the information and is only
(ahem) years younger than I am. My brother is even less years younger
than me.

I am happy for my son to know my secrets after I am gone, but asking him
to keep his curiosity under control in the meanwhile, well it is a bit
much.

My bank used to keep safe a small package, but no longer.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

Tone <tone@email.com> wrote in news:togi98$3slth$5@dont-email.me:

> On 27/12/2022 20:29, Tim+ wrote:
>> Hmm, just because you did something doesn’t make it right. Sounds
>> like a serious infringement of his right to privacy. I’m not sure
>> the ends (sorting out the estate) justifies the means no matter how
>> well intentioned.
>>
>> Tim
>
> If nowt else comes out of this thread, I have now determined to give
> my youngest brother (my executer, not executioner) 18 years younger
> than me, a list of all my pins and passwords to anything that might
> involve money. I thought I'd post it as registered mail, 'Do not open
> except in the case of death'.
>
> Luckily he is trustworthy and would hide it in a safe place.

Mine are written down on a piece of paper, kept in a plain envelope next to
my monitor (along with a load of other scraps of paper of no significance)
because I have no hope of remembering all the crap we're supposed to
remember these days. A burglar would take the floggable stuff, not scraps
of paper. A hacker would need telekinesis to access the codes.

But in the event of my demise SWMBO and our children are named in my will
and the relevant financial institutions will hand over any dosh I might
inadvertently leave behind.

--
Peter
-----

On 28/12/2022 10:02, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:

> My bank used to keep safe a small package, but no longer.
>
It's not usually a free service, but most solicitors offer such a
service, and if they are appointed as administrators by you before your
death they often do it at SFP.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 28-Dec-22 10:02, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> In article <togi98$3slth$5@dont-email.me>, Tone <tone@email.com> on
> Wed, 28 Dec 2022 at 04:56:05 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>> On 27/12/2022 20:29, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Hmm, just because you did something doesn’t make it right. Sounds like a
>>> serious infringement of his right to privacy. I’m not sure the ends
>>> (sorting out the estate) justifies the means no matter how well
>>> intentioned.
>>>
>>> Tim
>>
>> If nowt else comes out of this thread, I have now determined to give my
>> youngest brother (my executer, not executioner) 18 years younger than
>> me, a list of all my pins and passwords to anything that might involve
>> money. I thought I'd post it as registered mail, 'Do not open except in
>> the case of death'.
>>
>> Luckily he is trustworthy and would hide it in a safe place.
>>
>> Tone
> Is he trustworthy enough to live longer than you?
>
> It is a problem that my brother, SWMBO and myself seriously have to
> consider.
>
> SWMBO probably would have problems using the information and is only
> (ahem) years younger than I am. My brother is even less years younger
> than me.
>
> I am happy for my son to know my secrets after I am gone, but asking him
> to keep his curiosity under control in the meanwhile, well it is a bit
> much.
>
> My bank used to keep safe a small package, but no longer.

I recently added a text file, placed front & centre of the desktop on
this chamine, entitled:

"To Whom It May Concern.txt"

The first lines sayeth:
"Notes for anyone attempting to settle the Estate of Sam Plusnet.
1. Good luck."

It then goes on to detail the prepaid 'funeral' arrangements and a loose
description of my 'estate'.

This discussion has caused me to ponder if I should include the PIN for
my phone here. There is nothing of any use to an executor on the phone,
but I imagine they would not know that.

On the other hand, I want this file to be easily accessible when it is
needed, but dumping a whole load of passwords etc. etc. into an easily
accessible file is _NOT_ what I want.

--
Sam Plusnet

On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 20:04:50 +0000
Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

> On 28-Dec-22 10:02, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
> > In article <togi98$3slth$5@dont-email.me>, Tone <tone@email.com> on
> > Wed, 28 Dec 2022 at 04:56:05 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
> >> On 27/12/2022 20:29, Tim+ wrote:
> >>> Hmm, just because you did something doesn’t make it right. Sounds like a
> >>> serious infringement of his right to privacy. I’m not sure the ends
> >>> (sorting out the estate) justifies the means no matter how well
> >>> intentioned.
> >>>
> >>> Tim
> >>
> >> If nowt else comes out of this thread, I have now determined to give my
> >> youngest brother (my executer, not executioner) 18 years younger than
> >> me, a list of all my pins and passwords to anything that might involve
> >> money. I thought I'd post it as registered mail, 'Do not open except in
> >> the case of death'.
> >>
> >> Luckily he is trustworthy and would hide it in a safe place.
> >>
> >> Tone
> > Is he trustworthy enough to live longer than you?
> >
> > It is a problem that my brother, SWMBO and myself seriously have to
> > consider.
> >
> > SWMBO probably would have problems using the information and is only
> > (ahem) years younger than I am. My brother is even less years younger
> > than me.
> >
> > I am happy for my son to know my secrets after I am gone, but asking him
> > to keep his curiosity under control in the meanwhile, well it is a bit
> > much.
> >
> > My bank used to keep safe a small package, but no longer.
>
> I recently added a text file, placed front & centre of the desktop on
> this chamine, entitled:
>
> "To Whom It May Concern.txt"
>
> The first lines sayeth:
> "Notes for anyone attempting to settle the Estate of Sam Plusnet.
> 1. Good luck."
>
> It then goes on to detail the prepaid 'funeral' arrangements and a loose
> description of my 'estate'.
>
> This discussion has caused me to ponder if I should include the PIN for
> my phone here. There is nothing of any use to an executor on the phone,
> but I imagine they would not know that.
>
> On the other hand, I want this file to be easily accessible when it is
> needed, but dumping a whole load of passwords etc. etc. into an easily
> accessible file is _NOT_ what I want.
>
Post it here; you're amongst friends.

OTOH, maybe a Hint somewhere to look at the SD card taped to page 232 of
Sherlock's Memoirs. (which might lead to a trail of easter eggs around the
gardwen, etc)

--
Bah, and indeed Humbug.

On 28-Dec-22 20:16, Kerr-Mudd, John wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Dec 2022 20:04:50 +0000
> Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>
>> On 28-Dec-22 10:02, Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>>> In article <togi98$3slth$5@dont-email.me>, Tone <tone@email.com> on
>>> Wed, 28 Dec 2022 at 04:56:05 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>>>> On 27/12/2022 20:29, Tim+ wrote:
>>>>> Hmm, just because you did something doesn’t make it right. Sounds like a
>>>>> serious infringement of his right to privacy. I’m not sure the ends
>>>>> (sorting out the estate) justifies the means no matter how well
>>>>> intentioned.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tim
>>>>
>>>> If nowt else comes out of this thread, I have now determined to give my
>>>> youngest brother (my executer, not executioner) 18 years younger than
>>>> me, a list of all my pins and passwords to anything that might involve
>>>> money. I thought I'd post it as registered mail, 'Do not open except in
>>>> the case of death'.
>>>>
>>>> Luckily he is trustworthy and would hide it in a safe place.
>>>>
>>>> Tone
>>> Is he trustworthy enough to live longer than you?
>>>
>>> It is a problem that my brother, SWMBO and myself seriously have to
>>> consider.
>>>
>>> SWMBO probably would have problems using the information and is only
>>> (ahem) years younger than I am. My brother is even less years younger
>>> than me.
>>>
>>> I am happy for my son to know my secrets after I am gone, but asking him
>>> to keep his curiosity under control in the meanwhile, well it is a bit
>>> much.
>>>
>>> My bank used to keep safe a small package, but no longer.
>>
>> I recently added a text file, placed front & centre of the desktop on
>> this chamine, entitled:
>>
>> "To Whom It May Concern.txt"
>>
>> The first lines sayeth:
>> "Notes for anyone attempting to settle the Estate of Sam Plusnet.
>> 1. Good luck."
>>
>> It then goes on to detail the prepaid 'funeral' arrangements and a loose
>> description of my 'estate'.
>>
>> This discussion has caused me to ponder if I should include the PIN for
>> my phone here. There is nothing of any use to an executor on the phone,
>> but I imagine they would not know that.
>>
>> On the other hand, I want this file to be easily accessible when it is
>> needed, but dumping a whole load of passwords etc. etc. into an easily
>> accessible file is _NOT_ what I want.
>>
> Post it here; you're amongst friends.
>
>
> OTOH, maybe a Hint somewhere to look at the SD card taped to page 232 of
> Sherlock's Memoirs. (which might lead to a trail of easter eggs around the
> gardwen, etc)

With a typo or two in the instructions, which will send them off on a
'round the world pursuit of enraged geese?
Worth thinking about.

--
Sam Plusnet