On 3/10/21 4:51 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>> Xeno wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>> version must have been butchered.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all the
>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>
>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>
>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>
>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*.  ;-)
>>>>
>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>
>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>
>> Wodbot is delusional again and talking about something entirely
>> different.
>
> You are wrong, as always.
>
>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/
>> Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>
>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>
>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>
>> Because they weren't DEC PDP's.
>
> Corse they were, fuckwit.
> http://gunkies.org/wiki/LSI-11
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11#LSI-11
>
>> FWIW, there were PDP clones available. TCG was one
>> Australian company that sold them. but there's was physically
>> identical, but blue/white toned instead of the red/black of DEC.
>
> Utterly mangled all over again with the logic cards, fuckwit.
>
>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all, let alone any blinken
>>>> lights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>
>> A DEC PDP was a computer and not a terminal.
>
> That isn't a terminal, it’s a full LSI 11 in a VT100 case, fuckwit.
>
>> Two different things and an system such as you
>> describe was an entirely different computer.
>
> Nope, just different packaging.
>
>> Wodbot seems to be describing some early 'business computer'
>
> Nope, that was something else entirely.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Professional_(computer)
>
>> where the logic boards were built into the display crt.
>
> The VT103 didn’t have that, it had a full qbus backplane
> in the wide section to the right of the screen with the
> normal LSI11 cards plugged into that.
>
>> WodBot is also dead set wrong about "rack mounting" as every biggen used
>> it in some form. When you took off the covers, underneath was a rack
>> mounting system.
>
> But not the traditional vertical rack mount he showed a pic of, fuckwit.

That vertical rack mount was near identical to the PDP11 I used back in
the early 80s. It was *relevant* to *my experience* which is why I
mentioned it. You stuffed up when you said my experience was wrong.

Go suck on your meds FFS.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>> must have been butchered.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all the
>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>
>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>
>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>
>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>
>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>>
>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>
>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>
>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>
>>> It’s a PDP11, it’s what the unit at the college looked like,
>>
>> Irrelevant to the fact that plenty of 11s weren't
>> rack mounted and didn’t have any blinken lights.
>>
>>> it’s what fits my memory recall of it. I never had much
>>> to do with it beyond accessing it via a terminal.
>>
>> Whereas I was personally responsible for all the 11s and
>> Vaxes we had, bought them, installed them, ran them,
>> maintained them, had one of my own, at home etc etc etc.
>>
>> And lots of other DEC minis before them, including an
>> 8S, the serial one, which I designed and built a driver
>> for a tek sampling oscilloscope which measured fluorescent
>> decay at sub nanosecond levels. That’s what the MSc
>> thesis was about. With the data from that crunched
>> on the IBM 360/50 mainframe.
>>
>> And the PDP9 which we did our own 9/15 interface
>> for and added the mag tape to with our own mag
>> tape controller, the design of which we stole
>> from DEC and did our own copy of using TTL on wire
>> wrap sockets on a drawer full of wire wrap sockets.
>>
>> And which we did our own multi user OS for, using
>> the same basic idea as TSX for the 11 which came later.
>>
>> Whereas you still don’t have a fucking clue about
>> the vast range of formats that 11s came in.

> I am very aware

Bullshit you are with your stupid claim about 11s.

> but I was referring to the one *I* had most exposure to.

You stupidly claimed that "but compared
to all the toys since, they're big guys."

In fact even the 11/70 was nothing like even a
decent modern smartphone today computer wise.

>>> Same as when I accessed the mainframe at Footscray
>>> Institute, never even got to see that machine but accessed it
>>> on a daily basis via the line printer terminal in our department.
>>
>> I personally ran an IBM 360/50 in the evenings myself.

> SFW!

So I know a hell of a lot more about computers than you do, fuckwit.

<reams of your desperate attempt to bullshit your way out of your
predicament that fools no one, as always, flushed where it belongs>

>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all,
>>>> let alone any blinken lights.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants

Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> News 2021 wrote
>> Xeno wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>> version must have been butchered.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all the
>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>
>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>
>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>
>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>
>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>
>> Wodbot is delusional again and talking about something entirely
>> different.
>
> It would seem so.
>>
>>>>
>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/
>> Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>
>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>
>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>
>> Because they weren't DEC PDP's.
>> FWIW, there were PDP clones available. TCG was one
>> Australian company that sold them. but there's was physically identical,
>> but blue/white toned instead of the red/black of DEC.
>>>
>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all, let alone any blinken
>>>> lights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>>
>> A DEC PDP was a computer and not a terminal. Two different things and an
>> system such as you describe was an entirely different computer.
>
> Yep, and the example pics I posted were, I suspect, sufficient to prove my
> point.

Bullshit with your stupid pig ignorant claim that "but compared to all
the toys since, they're big guys." The LSI 11 was nothing of the sort.

>> Wodbot seems to be describing some early 'business computer' where the
>> logic boards were built into the display crt.
>
> It would seem so. I was wondering what the hell he was on about when he
> ranted on about the VT100 terminal waffle.

It wasn’t a terminal, it was a full LSI-11, fuckwit.

>> WodBot is also dead set wrong about "rack mounting" as every biggen used
>> it in some form. When you took off the covers, underneath was a rack
>> mounting system.
>>
> Well, the PDP I *connected to* certainly fitted that description.

Irrelevant to your stupid claim that "but compared
to all the toys since, they're big guys."

Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>> Xeno wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>>> version must have been butchered.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*. ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>
>>> Wodbot is delusional again and talking about something entirely
>>> different.
>>
>> You are wrong, as always.
>>
>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/
>>> Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>
>>> Because they weren't DEC PDP's.
>>
>> Corse they were, fuckwit.
>> http://gunkies.org/wiki/LSI-11
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11#LSI-11
>>
>>> FWIW, there were PDP clones available. TCG was one
>>> Australian company that sold them. but there's was physically
>>> identical, but blue/white toned instead of the red/black of DEC.
>>
>> Utterly mangled all over again with the logic cards, fuckwit.
>>
>>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all, let alone any
>>>>> blinken
>>>>> lights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>>
>>> A DEC PDP was a computer and not a terminal.
>>
>> That isn't a terminal, it’s a full LSI 11 in a VT100 case, fuckwit.
>>
>>> Two different things and an system such as you
>>> describe was an entirely different computer.
>>
>> Nope, just different packaging.
>>
>>> Wodbot seems to be describing some early 'business computer'
>>
>> Nope, that was something else entirely.
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Professional_(computer)
>>
>>> where the logic boards were built into the display crt.
>>
>> The VT103 didn’t have that, it had a full qbus backplane
>> in the wide section to the right of the screen with the
>> normal LSI11 cards plugged into that.
>>
>>> WodBot is also dead set wrong about "rack mounting" as every biggen used
>>> it in some form. When you took off the covers, underneath was a rack
>>> mounting system.
>>
>> But not the traditional vertical rack mount he showed a pic of, fuckwit.

> That vertical rack mount was near identical to the PDP11 I used back in
> the early 80s. It was *relevant* to *my experience*

But not to your stupid claim that "but compared
to all the toys since, they're big guys."

> which is why I mentioned it. You stuffed up when you said my experience
> was wrong.

Bullshit I was with your stupid claim that "but
compared to all the toys since, they're big guys."

> Go suck on your meds FFS.

You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

On 4/10/21 5:36 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>>> must have been butchered.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*.  ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>>
>>>> It’s a PDP11, it’s what the unit at the college looked like,
>>>
>>> Irrelevant to the fact that plenty of 11s weren't
>>> rack mounted and didn’t have any blinken lights.
>>>
>>>> it’s what fits my memory recall of it. I never had much
>>>> to do with it beyond accessing it via a terminal.
>>>
>>> Whereas I was personally responsible for all the 11s and
>>> Vaxes we had, bought them, installed them, ran them,
>>> maintained them, had one of my own, at home etc etc etc.
>>>
>>> And lots of other DEC minis before them, including an
>>> 8S, the serial one, which I designed and built a driver
>>> for a tek sampling oscilloscope which measured fluorescent
>>> decay at sub nanosecond levels. That’s what the MSc
>>> thesis was about. With the data from that crunched
>>> on the IBM 360/50 mainframe.
>>>
>>> And the PDP9 which we did our own 9/15 interface
>>> for and added the mag tape to with our own mag
>>> tape controller, the design of which we stole
>>> from DEC and did our own copy of using TTL on wire
>>> wrap sockets on a drawer full of wire wrap sockets.
>>>
>>> And which we did our own multi user OS for, using
>>> the same basic idea as TSX for the 11 which came later.
>>>
>>> Whereas you still don’t have a fucking clue about
>>> the vast range of formats that 11s came in.
>
>> I am very aware
>
> Bullshit you are with your stupid claim about 11s.

You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
>> but I was referring to the one *I* had most exposure to.
>
> You stupidly claimed that "but compared
> to all the toys since, they're big guys."

You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
> In fact even the 11/70 was nothing like even a
> decent modern smartphone today computer wise.
>
>>>> Same as when I accessed the mainframe at Footscray
>>>> Institute, never even got to see that machine but accessed it
>>>> on a daily basis via the line printer terminal in our department.
>>>
>>> I personally ran an IBM 360/50 in the evenings myself.
>
>> SFW!
>
> So I know a hell of a lot more about computers than you do, fuckwit.

Again, SFW!

FWIW, I have never made claims of being particularly skilled in
computers. I was involved in IBM Token Ring networks and thin ethernet
back in the early days of networking and in multimedia development
subsequently. That in no way makes me an expert nor am I claiming to be.
>
> <reams of your desperate attempt to bullshit your way out of your
> predicament that fools no one, as always, flushed where it belongs>
>
>>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all,
>>>>> let alone any blinken lights.
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>
>

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 4/10/21 5:40 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>> News 2021 wrote
>>> Xeno wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>>> version must have been butchered.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*.  ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>
>>> Wodbot is delusional again and talking about something entirely
>>> different.
>>
>> It would seem so.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/
>>> Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>
>>> Because they weren't DEC PDP's.
>>> FWIW, there were PDP clones available. TCG was one
>>> Australian company that sold them. but there's was physically identical,
>>> but blue/white toned instead of the red/black of DEC.
>>>>
>>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all, let alone any
>>>>> blinken
>>>>> lights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>>>
>>> A DEC PDP was a computer and not a terminal. Two different things and an
>>> system such as you describe was an entirely different computer.
>>
>> Yep, and the example pics I posted were, I suspect, sufficient to
>> prove my point.
>
> Bullshit with your stupid pig ignorant claim that "but compared to all
> the toys since, they're big guys."  The LSI 11 was nothing of the sort.

You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
>>> Wodbot seems to be describing some early 'business computer' where the
>>> logic boards were built into the display crt.
>>
>> It would seem so. I was wondering what the hell he was on about when
>> he ranted on about the VT100 terminal waffle.
>
> It wasn’t a terminal, it was a full LSI-11, fuckwit.

You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
>>> WodBot is also dead set wrong about "rack mounting" as every biggen used
>>> it in some form. When you took off the covers, underneath was a rack
>>> mounting system.
>>>
>> Well, the PDP I *connected to* certainly fitted that description.
>
> Irrelevant to your stupid claim that "but compared
> to all the toys since, they're big guys."

You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 4/10/21 5:43 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>> Xeno wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>>>> version must have been butchered.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to
>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*.
>>>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>
>>>> Wodbot is delusional again and talking about something entirely
>>>> different.
>>>
>>> You are wrong, as always.
>>>
>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/
>>>> Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>
>>>> Because they weren't DEC PDP's.
>>>
>>> Corse they were, fuckwit.
>>> http://gunkies.org/wiki/LSI-11
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11#LSI-11
>>>
>>>> FWIW, there were PDP clones available. TCG was one
>>>> Australian company that sold them. but there's was physically
>>>> identical, but blue/white toned instead of the red/black of DEC.
>>>
>>> Utterly mangled all over again with the logic cards, fuckwit.
>>>
>>>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all, let alone any
>>>>>> blinken
>>>>>> lights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>>>
>>>> A DEC PDP was a computer and not a terminal.
>>>
>>> That isn't a terminal, it’s a full LSI 11 in a VT100 case, fuckwit.
>>>
>>>> Two different things and an system such as you
>>>> describe was an entirely different computer.
>>>
>>> Nope, just different packaging.
>>>
>>>> Wodbot seems to be describing some early 'business computer'
>>>
>>> Nope, that was something else entirely.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Professional_(computer)
>>>
>>>> where the logic boards were built into the display crt.
>>>
>>> The VT103 didn’t have that, it had a full qbus backplane
>>> in the wide section to the right of the screen with the
>>> normal LSI11 cards plugged into that.
>>>
>>>> WodBot is also dead set wrong about "rack mounting" as every biggen
>>>> used
>>>> it in some form. When you took off the covers, underneath was a rack
>>>> mounting system.
>>>
>>> But not the traditional vertical rack mount he showed a pic of, fuckwit.
>
>> That vertical rack mount was near identical to the PDP11 I used back
>> in the early 80s. It was *relevant* to *my experience*
>
> But not to your stupid claim that "but compared
> to all the toys since, they're big guys."

You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
>> which is why I mentioned it. You stuffed up when you said my
>> experience was wrong.
>
> Bullshit I was with your stupid claim that "but
> compared to all the toys since, they're big guys."

You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
>> Go suck on your meds FFS.
>
> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.

You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.

Get back on those meds post haste. It's not looking good for you.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>>>> must have been butchered.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all
>>>>>>>>>>> the toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*.
>>>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>>>
>>>>> It’s a PDP11, it’s what the unit at the college looked like,
>>>>
>>>> Irrelevant to the fact that plenty of 11s weren't
>>>> rack mounted and didn’t have any blinken lights.
>>>>
>>>>> it’s what fits my memory recall of it. I never had much
>>>>> to do with it beyond accessing it via a terminal.
>>>>
>>>> Whereas I was personally responsible for all the 11s and
>>>> Vaxes we had, bought them, installed them, ran them,
>>>> maintained them, had one of my own, at home etc etc etc.
>>>>
>>>> And lots of other DEC minis before them, including an
>>>> 8S, the serial one, which I designed and built a driver
>>>> for a tek sampling oscilloscope which measured fluorescent
>>>> decay at sub nanosecond levels. That’s what the MSc
>>>> thesis was about. With the data from that crunched
>>>> on the IBM 360/50 mainframe.
>>>>
>>>> And the PDP9 which we did our own 9/15 interface
>>>> for and added the mag tape to with our own mag
>>>> tape controller, the design of which we stole
>>>> from DEC and did our own copy of using TTL on wire
>>>> wrap sockets on a drawer full of wire wrap sockets.
>>>>
>>>> And which we did our own multi user OS for, using
>>>> the same basic idea as TSX for the 11 which came later.
>>>>
>>>> Whereas you still don’t have a fucking clue about
>>>> the vast range of formats that 11s came in.
>>
>>> I am very aware
>>
>> Bullshit you are with your stupid claim about 11s.
>
> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.

Your stupid pig ignorant claim that "but compared to all the
toys since, they're big guys." is still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

>>> but I was referring to the one *I* had most exposure to.
>>
>> You stupidly claimed that "but compared
>> to all the toys since, they're big guys."
>
> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.

Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

>> In fact even the 11/70 was nothing like even a
>> decent modern smartphone today computer wise.
>>
>>>>> Same as when I accessed the mainframe at Footscray
>>>>> Institute, never even got to see that machine but accessed it
>>>>> on a daily basis via the line printer terminal in our department.
>>>>
>>>> I personally ran an IBM 360/50 in the evenings myself.
>>
>>> SFW!
>>
>> So I know a hell of a lot more about computers than you do, fuckwit.
>
> Again, SFW!
>
> FWIW, I have never made claims of being particularly skilled in computers.

But you clearly did make the stupid claim that
"but compared to all the toys since, they're big guys."

>> <reams of your desperate attempt to bullshit your way out of your
>> predicament that fools no one, as always, flushed where it belongs>
>>
>>>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all,
>>>>>> let alone any blinken lights.
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants

Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>> News 2021 wrote
>>>> Xeno wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>>>> version must have been butchered.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all
>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*.
>>>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>>
>>>> Wodbot is delusional again and talking about something entirely
>>>> different.
>>>
>>> It would seem so.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/
>>>> Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>>
>>>> Because they weren't DEC PDP's.
>>>> FWIW, there were PDP clones available. TCG was one
>>>> Australian company that sold them. but there's was physically
>>>> identical,
>>>> but blue/white toned instead of the red/black of DEC.
>>>>>
>>>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all, let alone any
>>>>>> blinken
>>>>>> lights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>>>>
>>>> A DEC PDP was a computer and not a terminal. Two different things and
>>>> an
>>>> system such as you describe was an entirely different computer.
>>>
>>> Yep, and the example pics I posted were, I suspect, sufficient to prove
>>> my point.
>>
>> Bullshit with your stupid pig ignorant claim that "but compared to all
>> the toys since, they're big guys." The LSI 11 was nothing of the sort.
>
> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>>
>>>> Wodbot seems to be describing some early 'business computer' where the
>>>> logic boards were built into the display crt.
>>>
>>> It would seem so. I was wondering what the hell he was on about when he
>>> ranted on about the VT100 terminal waffle.
>>
>> It wasn’t a terminal, it was a full LSI-11, fuckwit.
>
> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.

Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

>>>> WodBot is also dead set wrong about "rack mounting" as every biggen
>>>> used
>>>> it in some form. When you took off the covers, underneath was a rack
>>>> mounting system.
>>>>
>>> Well, the PDP I *connected to* certainly fitted that description.
>>
>> Irrelevant to your stupid claim that "but compared
>> to all the toys since, they're big guys."
>
> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.

Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>> Xeno wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version must have been butchered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount,
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*.
>>>>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>>
>>>>> Wodbot is delusional again and talking about something entirely
>>>>> different.
>>>>
>>>> You are wrong, as always.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/
>>>>> Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>>
>>>>> Because they weren't DEC PDP's.
>>>>
>>>> Corse they were, fuckwit.
>>>> http://gunkies.org/wiki/LSI-11
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11#LSI-11
>>>>
>>>>> FWIW, there were PDP clones available. TCG was one
>>>>> Australian company that sold them. but there's was physically
>>>>> identical, but blue/white toned instead of the red/black of DEC.
>>>>
>>>> Utterly mangled all over again with the logic cards, fuckwit.
>>>>
>>>>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all, let alone any
>>>>>>> blinken
>>>>>>> lights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>>>>
>>>>> A DEC PDP was a computer and not a terminal.
>>>>
>>>> That isn't a terminal, it’s a full LSI 11 in a VT100 case, fuckwit.
>>>>
>>>>> Two different things and an system such as you
>>>>> describe was an entirely different computer.
>>>>
>>>> Nope, just different packaging.
>>>>
>>>>> Wodbot seems to be describing some early 'business computer'
>>>>
>>>> Nope, that was something else entirely.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Professional_(computer)
>>>>
>>>>> where the logic boards were built into the display crt.
>>>>
>>>> The VT103 didn’t have that, it had a full qbus backplane
>>>> in the wide section to the right of the screen with the
>>>> normal LSI11 cards plugged into that.
>>>>
>>>>> WodBot is also dead set wrong about "rack mounting" as every biggen
>>>>> used
>>>>> it in some form. When you took off the covers, underneath was a rack
>>>>> mounting system.
>>>>
>>>> But not the traditional vertical rack mount he showed a pic of,
>>>> fuckwit.
>>
>>> That vertical rack mount was near identical to the PDP11 I used back in
>>> the early 80s. It was *relevant* to *my experience*
>>
>> But not to your stupid claim that "but compared
>> to all the toys since, they're big guys."
>
> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.

Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

>>> which is why I mentioned it. You stuffed up when you said my experience
>>> was wrong.
>>
>> Bullshit I was with your stupid claim that "but
>> compared to all the toys since, they're big guys."
>
> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.

Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

>>> Go suck on your meds FFS.
>>
>> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
>
> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.

Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

On 4/10/21 2:50 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> must have been butchered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that
>>>>>>>>>>>>> were rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to
>>>>>>>>>>>> all the toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount,
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*.
>>>>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s a PDP11, it’s what the unit at the college looked like,
>>>>>
>>>>> Irrelevant to the fact that plenty of 11s weren't
>>>>> rack mounted and didn’t have any blinken lights.
>>>>>
>>>>>> it’s what fits my memory recall of it. I never had much
>>>>>> to do with it beyond accessing it via a terminal.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas I was personally responsible for all the 11s and
>>>>> Vaxes we had, bought them, installed them, ran them,
>>>>> maintained them, had one of my own, at home etc etc etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> And lots of other DEC minis before them, including an
>>>>> 8S, the serial one, which I designed and built a driver
>>>>> for a tek sampling oscilloscope which measured fluorescent
>>>>> decay at sub nanosecond levels. That’s what the MSc
>>>>> thesis was about. With the data from that crunched
>>>>> on the IBM 360/50 mainframe.
>>>>>
>>>>> And the PDP9 which we did our own 9/15 interface
>>>>> for and added the mag tape to with our own mag
>>>>> tape controller, the design of which we stole
>>>>> from DEC and did our own copy of using TTL on wire
>>>>> wrap sockets on a drawer full of wire wrap sockets.
>>>>>
>>>>> And which we did our own multi user OS for, using
>>>>> the same basic idea as TSX for the 11 which came later.
>>>>>
>>>>> Whereas you still don’t have a fucking clue about
>>>>> the vast range of formats that 11s came in.
>>>
>>>> I am very aware
>>>
>>> Bullshit you are with your stupid claim about 11s.
>>
>> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
> Your stupid pig ignorant claim that "but compared to all the
> toys since, they're big guys." is still there in the quoting, fuckwit.
>
>>>> but I was referring to the one *I* had most exposure to.
>>>
>>> You stupidly claimed that "but compared
>>> to all the toys since, they're big guys."
>>
>> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
> Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

NOT MY CLAIM
>
>>> In fact even the 11/70 was nothing like even a
>>> decent modern smartphone today computer wise.
>>>
>>>>>> Same as when I accessed the mainframe at Footscray
>>>>>> Institute, never even got to see that machine but accessed it
>>>>>> on a daily basis via the line printer terminal in our department.
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally ran an IBM 360/50 in the evenings myself.
>>>
>>>> SFW!
>>>
>>> So I know a hell of a lot more about computers than you do, fuckwit.
>>
>> Again, SFW!
>>
>> FWIW, I have never made claims of being particularly skilled in
>> computers.
>
> But you clearly did make the stupid claim that
> "but compared to all the toys since, they're big guys."

NOT MY CLAIM
>
>>> <reams of your desperate attempt to bullshit your way out of your
>>> predicament that fools no one, as always, flushed where it belongs>
>>>
>>>>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all,
>>>>>>> let alone any blinken lights.
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>
>

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 4/10/21 2:52 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>> News 2021 wrote
>>>>> Xeno wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version must have been butchered.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to
>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount,
>>>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*.
>>>>>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>>>
>>>>> Wodbot is delusional again and talking about something entirely
>>>>> different.
>>>>
>>>> It would seem so.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/
>>>>> Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Because they weren't DEC PDP's.
>>>>> FWIW, there were PDP clones available. TCG was one
>>>>> Australian company that sold them. but there's was physically
>>>>> identical,
>>>>> but blue/white toned instead of the red/black of DEC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all, let alone any
>>>>>>> blinken
>>>>>>> lights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>>>>>
>>>>> A DEC PDP was a computer and not a terminal. Two different things
>>>>> and an
>>>>> system such as you describe was an entirely different computer.
>>>>
>>>> Yep, and the example pics I posted were, I suspect, sufficient to
>>>> prove my point.
>>>
>>> Bullshit with your stupid pig ignorant claim that "but compared to all
>>> the toys since, they're big guys."  The LSI 11 was nothing of the sort.
>>
>> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>>>
>>>>> Wodbot seems to be describing some early 'business computer' where the
>>>>> logic boards were built into the display crt.
>>>>
>>>> It would seem so. I was wondering what the hell he was on about when
>>>> he ranted on about the VT100 terminal waffle.
>>>
>>> It wasn’t a terminal, it was a full LSI-11, fuckwit.
>>
>> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
> Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

NOT MY CLAIM
>
>>>>> WodBot is also dead set wrong about "rack mounting" as every biggen
>>>>> used
>>>>> it in some form. When you took off the covers, underneath was a rack
>>>>> mounting system.
>>>>>
>>>> Well, the PDP I *connected to* certainly fitted that description.
>>>
>>> Irrelevant to your stupid claim that "but compared
>>> to all the toys since, they're big guys."
>>
>> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
> Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

NOT MY CLAIM

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 4/10/21 2:53 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>> Xeno wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> version must have been butchered.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> rarely referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> all the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack
>>>>>>>>>>> mount, not
>>>>>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das
>>>>>>>>>>> blinkenlights*. ;-)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wodbot is delusional again and talking about something entirely
>>>>>> different.
>>>>>
>>>>> You are wrong, as always.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/
>>>>>> Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Because they weren't DEC PDP's.
>>>>>
>>>>> Corse they were, fuckwit.
>>>>> http://gunkies.org/wiki/LSI-11
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDP-11#LSI-11
>>>>>
>>>>>> FWIW, there were PDP clones available. TCG was one
>>>>>> Australian company that sold them. but there's was physically
>>>>>> identical, but blue/white toned instead of the red/black of DEC.
>>>>>
>>>>> Utterly mangled all over again with the logic cards, fuckwit.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>>>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all, let alone any
>>>>>>>> blinken
>>>>>>>> lights. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>>>>>
>>>>>> A DEC PDP was a computer and not a terminal.
>>>>>
>>>>> That isn't a terminal, it’s a full LSI 11 in a VT100 case, fuckwit.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Two different things and an system such as you
>>>>>> describe was an entirely different computer.
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, just different packaging.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wodbot seems to be describing some early 'business computer'
>>>>>
>>>>> Nope, that was something else entirely.
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEC_Professional_(computer)
>>>>>
>>>>>> where the logic boards were built into the display crt.
>>>>>
>>>>> The VT103 didn’t have that, it had a full qbus backplane
>>>>> in the wide section to the right of the screen with the
>>>>> normal LSI11 cards plugged into that.
>>>>>
>>>>>> WodBot is also dead set wrong about "rack mounting" as every
>>>>>> biggen used
>>>>>> it in some form. When you took off the covers, underneath was a rack
>>>>>> mounting system.
>>>>>
>>>>> But not the traditional vertical rack mount he showed a pic of,
>>>>> fuckwit.
>>>
>>>> That vertical rack mount was near identical to the PDP11 I used back
>>>> in the early 80s. It was *relevant* to *my experience*
>>>
>>> But not to your stupid claim that "but compared
>>> to all the toys since, they're big guys."
>>
>> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
> Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

NOT MY CLAIM
>
>>>> which is why I mentioned it. You stuffed up when you said my
>>>> experience was wrong.
>>>
>>> Bullshit I was with your stupid claim that "but
>>> compared to all the toys since, they're big guys."
>>
>> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
> Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.

NOT MY CLAIM
>
>>>> Go suck on your meds FFS.
>>>
>>> You never could bullshit your way out of a wet paper bag.
>>
>> You stupidly made a claim that I claimed something that I never claimed.
>
> Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.
>
NOT MY CLAIM

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 15:11:10 +1100, Xeno scribed:

>> Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.
>
> NOT MY CLAIM

Gee, 9 replies to WodBot saying the same thing.
I told you it was futile.
The only think it elucidated is that he was one of the
"ibm is the only real computer" fan bois.
Shame all the minis ran rings around it.
IME,any ibm fanboi/gril needed copious hand holding.

I wonder why, with such (alleged) great computer skills, SydU gave him
the bums rush,

News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote

> The only think it elucidated is that he was one
> of the "ibm is the only real computer" fan bois.

I have never ever said anything even remotely like that, fuckwit child.

> I wonder why, with such (alleged) great computer
> skills, SydU gave him the bums rush,

Never ever worked there, fuckwit child.

I have only ever lived there as a primary school child, fuckwit child.

Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>
>> The only think it elucidated is that he was one
>> of the "ibm is the only real computer" fan bois.
>
> I have never ever said anything even remotely like that, fuckwit child.
>
>> I wonder why, with such (alleged) great computer
>> skills, SydU gave him the bums rush,
>
> Never ever worked there, fuckwit child.
>
> I have only ever lived there as a primary school child, fuckwit child.

He's right on all counts.

On 4/10/21 3:40 pm, News 2021 wrote:
> On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 15:11:10 +1100, Xeno scribed:
>
>
>>> Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.
>>
>> NOT MY CLAIM
>
> Gee, 9 replies to WodBot saying the same thing.
> I told you it was futile.
> The only think it elucidated is that he was one of the
> "ibm is the only real computer" fan bois.
> Shame all the minis ran rings around it.
> IME,any ibm fanboi/gril needed copious hand holding.
>
> I wonder why, with such (alleged) great computer skills, SydU gave him
> the bums rush,
>
I think that becomes patently obvious when you observe his behaviours.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 4/10/21 7:53 pm, John Brown wrote:
> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>> The only think it elucidated is that he was one of the "ibm is the
>>> only real computer" fan bois.
>>
>> I have never ever said anything even remotely like that, fuckwit child.
>>> I wonder why, with such (alleged) great computer skills, SydU gave
>>> him the bums rush,
>>
>> Never ever worked there, fuckwit child.
>> I have only ever lived there as a primary school child, fuckwit child.
>
> He's right on all counts.

Please Rod, a little imagination in naming your bots, if you don't mind.

--

Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 20:18:23 +1100, Xeno posted:-

> On 4/10/21 3:40 pm, News 2021 wrote:
> > On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 15:11:10 +1100, Xeno scribed:
> >
> >
> >>> Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.
> >>
> >> NOT MY CLAIM
> >
> > Gee, 9 replies to WodBot saying the same thing.
> > I told you it was futile.
> > The only think it elucidated is that he was one of the
> > "ibm is the only real computer" fan bois.
> > Shame all the minis ran rings around it.
> > IME,any ibm fanboi/gril needed copious hand holding.
> >
> > I wonder why, with such (alleged) great computer skills, SydU gave
> > him the bums rush,
> >
> I think that becomes patently obvious when you observe his behaviours.
>
> --
>
> Xeno
>
>
> Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
> (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Our Roddles is a well known and long standing, dare I say respected,
member of the Usenet Community.

So much so, if, God forbid, Albanese gets elected, he will declare
Roddles as "Australian of the Year".

On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 22:53:16 -0000, Mountain Magpie
<Leura@blue.mountains.org> wrote:

>On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 20:18:23 +1100, Xeno posted:-
>
>> On 4/10/21 3:40 pm, News 2021 wrote:
>> > On Mon, 04 Oct 2021 15:11:10 +1100, Xeno scribed:
>> >
>> >
>> >>> Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.
>> >>
>> >> NOT MY CLAIM
>> >
>> > Gee, 9 replies to WodBot saying the same thing.
>> > I told you it was futile.
>> > The only think it elucidated is that he was one of the
>> > "ibm is the only real computer" fan bois.
>> > Shame all the minis ran rings around it.
>> > IME,any ibm fanboi/gril needed copious hand holding.
>> >
>> > I wonder why, with such (alleged) great computer skills, SydU gave
>> > him the bums rush,
>> >
>> I think that becomes patently obvious when you observe his behaviours.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Xeno
>>
>>
>> Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
>> (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
>
>Our Roddles is a well known and long standing, dare I say respected,
>member of the Usenet Community.
>
>So much so, if, God forbid, Albanese gets elected, he will declare
>Roddles as "Australian of the Year".
>
Rod has not changed in years, he just dislikes smartarses and trolls.
He should be up for Australian of the year he has helped more people
than any other "Australian of the year" (Order of Australia)
--
Petzl
As Winston Churchill once said;

The Monarchy is important,
not for the power it wields,
but for the power it denies others”.

On Tue, 05 Oct 2021 10:35:48 +1100, Petzl posted:-

> >So much so, if, God forbid, Albanese gets elected, he will declare
> >Roddles as "Australian of the Year".
> >
> Rod has not changed in years, he just dislikes smartarses and trolls.
> He should be up for Australian of the year he has helped more people
> than any other "Australian of the year" (Order of Australia)

Brown nosing noted.

What about your hero, Mark Latham?

Petzl <petzlx@gmail.com> wrote
> Mountain Magpie <Leura@blue.mountains.org> wrote
>> Xeno wrote
>>> News 2021 wrote
>>>> Xeno wrote

>>> >>> Its still there in the quoting, fuckwit.
>>> >>
>>> >> NOT MY CLAIM
>>> >
>>> > Gee, 9 replies to WodBot saying the same thing.
>>> > I told you it was futile.
>>> > The only think it elucidated is that he was one of the
>>> > "ibm is the only real computer" fan bois.
>>> > Shame all the minis ran rings around it.
>>> > IME,any ibm fanboi/gril needed copious hand holding.
>>> >
>>> > I wonder why, with such (alleged) great computer skills, SydU gave
>>> > him the bums rush,
>>> >
>>> I think that becomes patently obvious when you observe his behaviours.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Xeno
>>>
>>>
>>> Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
>>> (with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)
>>
>>Our Roddles is a well known and long standing, dare I say respected,
>>member of the Usenet Community.
>>
>>So much so, if, God forbid, Albanese gets elected, he will declare
>>Roddles as "Australian of the Year".
>>
> Rod has not changed in years, he just dislikes smartarses and trolls.
> He should be up for Australian of the year he has helped more people
> than any other "Australian of the year" (Order of Australia)

That's very arguable given the brilliant result Frewen has done with the
pandemic.

Whatever the stupid3 stupidly claim.

On 3/10/2021 11:37 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>
>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>> must have been butchered.
>>>
>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>> rarely
>>>>>>>>> referred to as mainframes..)
>>>
>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all the
>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>
>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>
>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>
>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>
>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*.  ;-)
>>>
>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>
>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>
>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>
>>>
>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>
>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>
>> It’s a PDP11, it’s what the unit at the college looked like,
>
> Irrelevant to the fact that plenty of 11s weren't
> rack mounted and didn’t have any blinken lights.
>
>> it’s what fits my memory recall of it. I never had much
>> to do with it beyond accessing it via a terminal.
>
> Whereas I was personally responsible for all the 11s and
> Vaxes we had, bought them, installed them, ran them,
> maintained them, had one of my own, at home etc etc etc.
>
> And lots of other DEC minis before them, including an
> 8S, the serial one, which I designed and built a driver
> for a tek sampling oscilloscope which measured fluorescent
> decay at sub nanosecond levels. That’s what the MSc
> thesis was about. With the data from that crunched
> on the IBM 360/50 mainframe.
>
> And the PDP9 which we did our own 9/15 interface
> for and added the mag tape to with our own mag
> tape controller, the design of which we stole
> from DEC and did our own copy of using TTL on wire
> wrap sockets on a drawer full of wire wrap sockets.
>
> And which we did our own multi user OS for, using
> the same basic idea as TSX for the 11 which came later.
>
> Whereas you still don’t have a fucking clue about
> the vast range of formats that 11s came in.
>
>> Same as when I accessed the mainframe at Footscray
>> Institute, never even got to see that machine but accessed it
>> on a daily basis via the line printer terminal in our department.
>
> I personally ran an IBM 360/50 in the evenings myself.

The 360/50 wasn't exactly a tower of power, by the 1980s it was reduced
to being the controller for the 3890 document sorter (IBM never threw
anything away, old kit and failures re-appeared as parts of other
machines) and was eventually replaced in that role by a PC.

Even in its heyday, it was outclassed by CDC gear.

>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all,
>>> let alone any blinken lights.
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>
>

keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>> must have been butchered.
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>> rarely
>>>>>>>>>> referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all the
>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>
>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>
>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>
>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*. ;-)
>>>>
>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>
>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>>
>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>
>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>
>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>
>>> It’s a PDP11, it’s what the unit at the college looked like,
>>
>> Irrelevant to the fact that plenty of 11s weren't
>> rack mounted and didn’t have any blinken lights.
>>
>>> it’s what fits my memory recall of it. I never had much
>>> to do with it beyond accessing it via a terminal.
>>
>> Whereas I was personally responsible for all the 11s and
>> Vaxes we had, bought them, installed them, ran them,
>> maintained them, had one of my own, at home etc etc etc.
>>
>> And lots of other DEC minis before them, including an
>> 8S, the serial one, which I designed and built a driver
>> for a tek sampling oscilloscope which measured fluorescent
>> decay at sub nanosecond levels. That’s what the MSc
>> thesis was about. With the data from that crunched
>> on the IBM 360/50 mainframe.
>>
>> And the PDP9 which we did our own 9/15 interface
>> for and added the mag tape to with our own mag
>> tape controller, the design of which we stole
>> from DEC and did our own copy of using TTL on wire
>> wrap sockets on a drawer full of wire wrap sockets.
>>
>> And which we did our own multi user OS for, using
>> the same basic idea as TSX for the 11 which came later.
>>
>> Whereas you still don’t have a fucking clue about
>> the vast range of formats that 11s came in.
>>
>>> Same as when I accessed the mainframe at Footscray
>>> Institute, never even got to see that machine but accessed it
>>> on a daily basis via the line printer terminal in our department.
>>
>> I personally ran an IBM 360/50 in the evenings myself.

> The 360/50 wasn't exactly a tower of power,

Irrelevant to what was being discussed.

> by the 1980s it was reduced to being the controller for the 3890 document
> sorter (IBM never threw anything away, old kit and failures re-appeared as
> parts of other machines) and was eventually replaced in that role by a PC.

> Even in its heyday, it was outclassed by CDC gear.

Irrelevant to what was being discussed.

>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all,
>>>> let alone any blinken lights.
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants

On 7/10/2021 9:22 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> keithr0 <user@account.invalid> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed <rod.speed.aaa@gmail.com> wrote
>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>>>>> News 2021 <news21@woa.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>>>>> Chris Baird wrote
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> AFAIK, mainframe C was the real C from Bell(?). So the C64
>>>>>>>>>>>> version
>>>>>>>>>>>> must have been butchered.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> C compilers were born and raised on PDP11 systems (that were
>>>>>>>>>>> rarely
>>>>>>>>>>> referred to as mainframes..)
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Yep, compared to the big guys at the time, but compared to all
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> toys since, they're big guys.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, the 11s never were.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The PDP11 at the college was always classed as a *minicomputer*.
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep, nothing even remotely like a mainframe.
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It was a mere 16 bit machine in the usual vertical rack mount, not
>>>>>>>> particularly powerful, but it had lots of *das blinkenlights*.  ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>>> The LSI 11s had no vertical rack mount and no *das blinkenlights*
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, it looked very much like this.
>>>>>
>>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Pdp-11-40.jpg/250px-Pdp-11-40.jpg
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Looks like das blinkenlights to me.
>>>>>
>>>>> But the LSI 11s didn’t look anything like that.
>>>>
>>>> It’s a PDP11, it’s what the unit at the college looked like,
>>>
>>> Irrelevant to the fact that plenty of 11s weren't
>>> rack mounted and didn’t have any blinken lights.
>>>
>>>> it’s what fits my memory recall of it. I never had much
>>>> to do with it beyond accessing it via a terminal.
>>>
>>> Whereas I was personally responsible for all the 11s and
>>> Vaxes we had, bought them, installed them, ran them,
>>> maintained them, had one of my own, at home etc etc etc.
>>>
>>> And lots of other DEC minis before them, including an
>>> 8S, the serial one, which I designed and built a driver
>>> for a tek sampling oscilloscope which measured fluorescent
>>> decay at sub nanosecond levels. That’s what the MSc
>>> thesis was about. With the data from that crunched
>>> on the IBM 360/50 mainframe.
>>>
>>> And the PDP9 which we did our own 9/15 interface
>>> for and added the mag tape to with our own mag
>>> tape controller, the design of which we stole
>>> from DEC and did our own copy of using TTL on wire
>>> wrap sockets on a drawer full of wire wrap sockets.
>>>
>>> And which we did our own multi user OS for, using
>>> the same basic idea as TSX for the 11 which came later.
>>>
>>> Whereas you still don’t have a fucking clue about
>>> the vast range of formats that 11s came in.
>>>
>>>> Same as when I accessed the mainframe at Footscray
>>>> Institute, never even got to see that machine but accessed it
>>>> on a daily basis via the line printer terminal in our department.
>>>
>>> I personally ran an IBM 360/50 in the evenings myself.
>
>> The 360/50 wasn't exactly a tower of power,
>
> Irrelevant to what was being discussed.
>
>> by the 1980s it was reduced to being the controller for the 3890
>> document sorter (IBM never threw anything away, old kit and failures
>> re-appeared as parts of other machines) and was eventually replaced in
>> that role by a PC.
>
>> Even in its heyday, it was outclassed by CDC gear.
>
> Irrelevant to what was being discussed.
>
>>>>> The logic cards were in the side of a VT100 terminal,
>>>>> renamed the VT103, no vertical rack mount at all,
>>>>> let alone any blinken lights.
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VT100#Variants
>
>
OK so you don't want to talk about it - understandable.