Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.

Does that make nuclear war inevitable?

If he starts to lose in Ukraine I can't see him not using nuclear
weapons. Can you?

If he does the USA and NATO would have to respond.

It seems we are close to WW3, the West vs Russia and China?

It does seem that the human race is hell bent on destroying itself and
the planet. But it also seems that just one man and his greed is the
catalyst.

Possibly our only hope of peace is that the Russian military see sense
and take him out.

Otherwise - well, the planet would eventually recover, but without us.

Maybe that's a good thing?

Tone

On 22/02/2023 05:13, Tone wrote:

> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.
>
> Does that make nuclear war inevitable?

Not in my opinion

> If he starts to lose in Ukraine I can't see him not using nuclear
> weapons. Can you?

I can't see him not implying he would.

> If he does the USA and NATO would have to respond.

One way or t'other...

> It seems we are close to WW3, the West vs Russia and China?

No guarantee that China would get involved.

> It does seem that the human race is hell bent on destroying itself and
> the planet. But it also seems that just one man and his greed is the
> catalyst.

> Possibly our only hope of peace is that the Russian military see sense
> and take him out.

Can't disagree, but:

Beware of getting rid of Nurse,
For fear of getting something worse.

> Otherwise - well, the planet would eventually recover, but without us.

Why just us? Nukes are not discriminatory.

> Maybe that's a good thing?

If such weapons *could be* so selective, mayhap it would give the planet
a further lease of life.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.
>
> Does that make nuclear war inevitable?
>
> If he starts to lose in Ukraine I can't see him not using nuclear
> weapons. Can you?
>
> If he does the USA and NATO would have to respond.
>
> It seems we are close to WW3, the West vs Russia and China?
>
> It does seem that the human race is hell bent on destroying itself and
> the planet. But it also seems that just one man and his greed is the
> catalyst.
>
> Possibly our only hope of peace is that the Russian military see sense
> and take him out.
>
> Otherwise - well, the planet would eventually recover, but without us.
>
> Maybe that's a good thing?
>
> Tone
>

He is counting on the West backing down.

He knows the leaders are weak and some - especially Germany- can be relied
on to chicken out, Germany is pro Russia.

On 2023-02-22, Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.
>
> Does that make nuclear war inevitable?
>
> If he starts to lose in Ukraine I can't see him not using nuclear
> weapons. Can you?
>
> If he does the USA and NATO would have to respond.
>
> It seems we are close to WW3, the West vs Russia and China?
>
> It does seem that the human race is hell bent on destroying itself and
> the planet. But it also seems that just one man and his greed is the
> catalyst.
>
> Possibly our only hope of peace is that the Russian military see sense
> and take him out.
>
> Otherwise - well, the planet would eventually recover, but without us.
>
> Maybe that's a good thing?
>
> Tone

Once a war starts, truth goes out the window. Don't believe ANY of it.

Make a cup of tea, get a few biscuits. Relax. My Father told of the
start of WWI, when we (.ie) were still part of the Empire that was
supposed to never end. I think Pitcairn island is still loyal

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 22/02/2023 05:13, Tone wrote:
> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.
>
> Does that make nuclear war inevitable?
>
Not necessarily.

> If he starts to lose in Ukraine I can't see him not using nuclear
> weapons. Can you?
>
That may depend on what China tell him to do.

> If he does the USA and NATO would have to respond.
>
No choice there. The Nuclear clock is ticking.

> It seems we are close to WW3, the West vs Russia and China?
>
One hope would be that the Chinese realise that they have so much
invested in countries that would be severely damaged in such a conflict
that they would put the brakes one, possibly by just politely mentioning
that if they so desired, they could obliterate all trace of Putin's regime.

What is apparently being forgotten is that China has been selling stuff
all over the world on credit for many years, to the extent that in many
places they are owed so much they are more or less having to take over
local industries. They currently own about £143 billion worth of assets
in industry, infrastructure and property in the UK, and that's just the
stuff they admit to. 10% of Heathrow Airport, 49% of HSBC, they are
paying for a lot towards the cost of the Hinckley C power station and so
on. If you turn on a tap or flush the loo in London or the Home
counties, the Chinese own 9% of the company that supplies and removes
the water.

Some African economies are heading rapidly towards being 100% Chinese
owned.

They own less than 2 billion dollars worth of stuff in the USA, so they
are probably only worried about the debt the USA owe them through the
balance of trade.

For some reason, this is not making the same headlines as Russian
oligarchs buying the occasional house or yacht.

> It does seem that the human race is hell bent on destroying itself and
> the planet. But it also seems that just one man and his greed is the
> catalyst.
>
He is the one getting the blame and who has been given the chance. The
real problem is that both sides need the food and other stuff that the
Ukraine used to provide at a sensible price. As a result, once Putin
started to play silly ubggres, "our" side had no choice other than to
get him to stop by whatever means we could. We also need Russia's oil
and gas, so we allowed him to pay the bills for his aggression. He, on
the other hand, has bet everything he can on being able to grab the food
for his side. There is enough for all sides, assum9ng the fighting
stops. (The same applies in many famine areas. If they stopped fighting
and raised food, they'd not be starving. But taty's straying off topic
and is an old problem.)

> Possibly our only hope of peace is that the Russian military see sense
> and take him out.
>
It just needs one Chinese (Or anyone else's) missile in the right place
at the right tine, and it wouldn't even have to be a nuke. Heck, if it
was a kinetic one dropped from orbit, it wouldn't even need to have any
explosive on board. "Oops, my finger slipped" There have been quite a
few end of life satellites re-entering recently that could
"accidentally" have landed within killing range of certain people...

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

And remember this all started with two local civil wars, One in Crimea, and
the other closer to the border with Russia. For whatever reason, the elected
Government of Ukraine could not stop these wars, so with the usual Russian
insecurity and lack of tact, they wade in on the side of a lot of the ethnic
Russians and in the first case, annex off part of Ukraine, apparently with
no help for that country to stop them. It after all gives Russia back a deep
water port.
Then after some time of threatening, and skirmishes in which an airliner
gets shot down, Russia finally invades, but attempts to not just annexe of
that part of Ukraine, but take the whole country.
Obviously resources are the real reason, and Putin mistakenly thought that
there would be a lot of indignation and they could get their hands on all
the resources, but that has not happened. Hindsight is wonderful, but had
the rest of the world waded in in the Crimea issue, then the last year of
fighting would probably not have happened. Now we are nearing spring, and
Putin feels that he can just walk in and take the rest. The Chinese seem to
be very much on the fence here, as they really cannot win either way.
However, Assuming Putin does want to have a land to preside over, I think
he would not launch any nuclear strikes on anyone, but may, as a show of
intent send a device into an unpopulated area of the world just to flex his
muscles. If he did that then I suspect many conventional forces would
support Ukraine not just with hardware, but with men and other things.
There is nothing you can do if a person in charge wants to destroy the
world, unless there is some other system in place to stop a loony from doing
it. Lets hope there is a person or group who has to sanction the button
press.
Brian

--

--:
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tone" <tone@email.com> wrote in message
news:tt4892$1d93a$2@dont-email.me...
> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.
>
> Does that make nuclear war inevitable?
>
> If he starts to lose in Ukraine I can't see him not using nuclear weapons.
> Can you?
>
> If he does the USA and NATO would have to respond.
>
> It seems we are close to WW3, the West vs Russia and China?
>
> It does seem that the human race is hell bent on destroying itself and the
> planet. But it also seems that just one man and his greed is the catalyst.
>
> Possibly our only hope of peace is that the Russian military see sense and
> take him out.
>
> Otherwise - well, the planet would eventually recover, but without us.
>
> Maybe that's a good thing?
>
> Tone

I doubt that Germany is pro Russia, they are however a lot closer to the
Russian Bear than many, and they need to survive.
I would have thought the way to go would be to engage Russia on so many
fronts that they would choose leadership change over destroying the world
and themselves as well.
Brian

--

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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Brian" <noinv@lid.org> wrote in message
news:tt4kcv$1fgbj$1@dont-email.me...
> Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:
>> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.
>>
>> Does that make nuclear war inevitable?
>>
>> If he starts to lose in Ukraine I can't see him not using nuclear
>> weapons. Can you?
>>
>> If he does the USA and NATO would have to respond.
>>
>> It seems we are close to WW3, the West vs Russia and China?
>>
>> It does seem that the human race is hell bent on destroying itself and
>> the planet. But it also seems that just one man and his greed is the
>> catalyst.
>>
>> Possibly our only hope of peace is that the Russian military see sense
>> and take him out.
>>
>> Otherwise - well, the planet would eventually recover, but without us.
>>
>> Maybe that's a good thing?
>>
>> Tone
>>
>
> He is counting on the West backing down.
>
> He knows the leaders are weak and some - especially Germany- can be relied
> on to chicken out, Germany is pro Russia.
>
>
>

Tone wrote:

> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.

paused, not withdrawn

> Does that make nuclear war inevitable?

I don't believe that agreement has anything to do with pushing the big
red button, just banning testing and inspecting what the others have etc

<https://www.state.gov/new-start>

If he was ever going to start a nuclear war, a bit of paper wouldn't
have stopped him anyway.

> If he starts to lose in Ukraine I can't see him not using nuclear
> weapons. Can you?

I've heard it said that the russians regard "battlefield" low yield
nukes as fair game, not really nukes, just bigger bang weapons.

He may be mad, but I don't think he's stupid eneough to start Ww3, but
then I admit that 363 days ago I didn't think he would invade.

> If he does the USA and NATO would have to respond.
>
> It seems we are close to WW3, the West vs Russia and China?

I don't think so, but if it happens we won't know much about it.

> It does seem that the human race is hell bent on destroying itself and
> the planet. But it also seems that just one man and his greed is the
> catalyst.
>
> Possibly our only hope of peace is that the Russian military see sense
> and take him out.
>
> Otherwise - well, the planet would eventually recover, but without us.
>
> Maybe that's a good thing?
>
> Tone

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 09:26:54 +0000
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

> What is apparently being forgotten is that China has been selling stuff
> all over the world on credit for many years, to the extent that in many
> places they are owed so much they are more or less having to take over
> local industries.

Hmm what you're saying is that China is like a real world Ankh
Morpork. I wonder if they're any better at managing a global economy than
the current shower of opportunists, sounds like we might be on the way to
finding out. Interesting times.

Here was me considering the number of major cities throughout the
western world that have a chinatown and the loyalties of the inhabitants of
these places.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 05:13:06 +0000
Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:

> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.

He hasn't thobut - he's 'paused' it whatever that means. I suspect
it just means that he won't allow the next round of inspections to happen
or something of that order.

> Does that make nuclear war inevitable?

No, that agreement still allows them something like 1500 nukes each.

He won't use strategic nukes because he knows that too many are
treaty bound to cream him for it. Technically he could get away with
tactical nukes but nobody has ever tried to thread that needle.

> If he starts to lose in Ukraine I can't see him not using nuclear
> weapons. Can you?

He's been losing in Ukraine for months, it's only winter that's
held the lines. He hasn't done it yet.

He threatened to use tactical nukes last year and apparently got
told that NATO would not respond with nukes but would destroy the Russian
military. The US carrier groups appeared to be well positioned to carry out
that threat - i haven't looked recently.

> If he does the USA and NATO would have to respond.

Sure but unless he uses a strategic nuke or hits a NATO country it
won't be with nukes. if he does we get to find out what Russia's second
strike capability is like - hopefully broken.

> It seems we are close to WW3, the West vs Russia and China?

China is not siding with Russia - but they have always been very
protective and I expect they always will be. I doubt they'll do anything
unless a nuke heads their way - and then it would not be pretty.

> It does seem that the human race is hell bent on destroying itself and
> the planet. But it also seems that just one man and his greed is the
> catalyst.

We've survived worse - I dread to think how many undocumented near
escapes there were during the cold war, the documented ones are scary
enough. There are a lot fewer warheads around now and a lot less maintenance
budget for them.

> Possibly our only hope of peace is that the Russian military see sense
> and take him out.

He could do us all a favour and have a heart attack. I hold it
against him that I wish him dead, I never expected to wish that of anyone!

> Otherwise - well, the planet would eventually recover, but without us.

Probably quite quickly, but it would be life, not as we know it,
huge extinction events are always followed by a massive rise in
biodiversity.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 09:26:54 +0000
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:

> Heck, if it was a kinetic one dropped from orbit,

One of the scariest things about the touted launch costs and
payload of Spacex's Starship is that it makes kinetic weapons a lot cheaper
than nukes - ISTR one design that was basically an RSJ with a solid fuel
de-orbit rocket - you could launch quite a few in 100 tonne payloads at five
million a lift.

--
Steve O'Hara-Smith
Odds and Ends at http://www.sohara.org/

On 2023-02-22, Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
> I doubt that Germany is pro Russia, they are however a lot closer to the
> Russian Bear than many, and they need to survive.
> I would have thought the way to go would be to engage Russia on so many
> fronts that they would choose leadership change over destroying the world
> and themselves as well.
> Brian
>

Walking along the street in former E.Berlin, and looking into where
stuff had been removed to deal with something down there. lots of
rubble. something about trummel frauen,

Look at a map of germany in 1914, and a present day one.

Hitler declared, "Knock in the front door, and the house will collapse".

A couple of years later. "If I had known!"

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

Tease'n'Seize wrote:

> Tone wrote:
>
>> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.
>
> paused, not withdrawn

And apparently he says he won't unpause unless .uk and .fr sign up for
it too.

On 22/02/2023 10:07, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 09:26:54 +0000
> John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> What is apparently being forgotten is that China has been selling stuff
>> all over the world on credit for many years, to the extent that in many
>> places they are owed so much they are more or less having to take over
>> local industries.
>
> Hmm what you're saying is that China is like a real world Ankh
> Morpork. I wonder if they're any better at managing a global economy than
> the current shower of opportunists, sounds like we might be on the way to
> finding out. Interesting times.
>
I just hope they don't get *too* interesting. Where do you think Sir
Pterry got the idea of taking over by owning the businesses from?

> Here was me considering the number of major cities throughout the
> western world that have a chinatown and the loyalties of the inhabitants of
> these places.
>
They tend not to mix with the indigenes, but most of the denizens tend
to be from the Cantonese speaking area round Hong Kong, so may not be
all that happy with what the (Mandarin speaking) Beijing based
government are doing in that area. Their main loyalty, though, seems to
be to paying the bills and having a quiet life. They don't send money
home to their families, because their families came with them, and
started breeding.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

On 2023-02-22, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 09:26:54 +0000
> John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> What is apparently being forgotten is that China has been selling stuff
>> all over the world on credit for many years, to the extent that in many
>> places they are owed so much they are more or less having to take over
>> local industries.
>
> Hmm what you're saying is that China is like a real world Ankh
> Morpork. I wonder if they're any better at managing a global economy than
> the current shower of opportunists, sounds like we might be on the way to
> finding out. Interesting times.
>
> Here was me considering the number of major cities throughout the
> western world that have a chinatown and the loyalties of the inhabitants of
> these places.
>

In WW2, there was a doubt about the loyalty of Japanese-Americans, and
most were rounded up and treated badly. There was not a smidgen of truth
in the suspicions. The biggest danger to the world at the moment is the
obviously senile Joe Biden. Bring back Trump!,

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

maus wrote:

> The biggest danger to the world at the moment is the
> obviously senile Joe Biden.

Someone's got him on a good enough leash ...

On 2023-02-22, Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote:
> maus wrote:
>
>> The biggest danger to the world at the moment is the
>> obviously senile Joe Biden.
>
> Someone's got him on a good enough leash ...

Within the last week, visiting Kiev, he promised the Ukrnians 700 tanks.
Someone should find out who is holding the leash and fire them!
Bring Back El Trumpo!

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

On 22/02/2023 11:57, maus wrote:
> On 2023-02-22, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 09:26:54 +0000
>> John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>
>>> What is apparently being forgotten is that China has been selling stuff
>>> all over the world on credit for many years, to the extent that in many
>>> places they are owed so much they are more or less having to take over
>>> local industries.
>>
>> Hmm what you're saying is that China is like a real world Ankh
>> Morpork. I wonder if they're any better at managing a global economy than
>> the current shower of opportunists, sounds like we might be on the way to
>> finding out. Interesting times.
>>
>> Here was me considering the number of major cities throughout the
>> western world that have a chinatown and the loyalties of the inhabitants of
>> these places.
>>
>
>
> In WW2, there was a doubt about the loyalty of Japanese-Americans, and
> most were rounded up and treated badly. There was not a smidgen of truth
> in the suspicions. The biggest danger to the world at the moment is the
> obviously senile Joe Biden. Bring back Trump!,

You are rigt about the loyalty of the Japanese in USAnia, but I see no
evidence of senility in Biden, and I have no respect for *anyone* who
would back the ginger monstrosity - that so many USAnians voted him into
office makes me extremely dubious about the sanity and common decency of
more than half the population of the US.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 22/02/2023 11:05, Tease'n'Seize wrote:
> Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>
>> Tone wrote:
>>
>>> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.
>>
>> paused, not withdrawn
>
> And apparently he says he won't unpause unless .uk and .fr sign up for
> it too.
>
>

Just wanna say thanx for the responses on this thread.

Most interesting

Tone

On 2023-02-22, RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> wrote:
> On 22/02/2023 11:57, maus wrote:
>> On 2023-02-22, Ahem A Rivet's Shot <steveo@eircom.net> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 09:26:54 +0000
>>> John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>>>
>

> You are rigt about the loyalty of the Japanese in USAnia, but I see no a
> evidence of senility in Biden,

Ask the next patient what he/she thinks! or if they have the time, ask
the nursie.

>and I have no respect for *anyone* who
> would back the ginger monstrosity - that so many USAnians voted him into
> office makes me extremely dubious about the sanity and common decency of
> more than half the population of the US.
>
I am glad that you agree that he was voted out by well less than the half of
US voters. I was looking at BBC when the influencers squealed with fear
when Don was honestly voted in first.

BBC was a news service that was popular before GBNews started.

--
greymausg@mail.com
where is our money gone, Dude?

Ahem A Rivet's Shot said:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 09:26:54 +0000
> John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
>> What is apparently being forgotten is that China has been selling stuff
>> all over the world on credit for many years, to the extent that in many
>> places they are owed so much they are more or less having to take over
>> local industries.
>
> Hmm what you're saying is that China is like a real world Ankh
> Morpork. I wonder if they're any better at managing a global economy than
> the current shower of opportunists, sounds like we might be on the way to
> finding out. Interesting times.

I've just read Kim Stanley Robinson's "the Ministry for the Future".

Economic fiction, basically, with tacked-on Human Interest; in which The
Banks are persuaded tp put themselves behind keeping the planet viable, on
the grounds that their job is to look after Money, and Money won't be
worh fuckall if they don't.

--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem

My email address is at http://qualmograph.org.uk/contact.html

He is just playing about trying to deflect the real Elephant in the room.
I suspect all this making overtures to the Chinese is another ploy, but they
are not fools and are out to get what they want of course, so would I do.
Brian

--

--:
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Tone" <tone@email.com> wrote in message
news:tt55m0$1h7cb$1@dont-email.me...
> On 22/02/2023 11:05, Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>> Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>>
>>> Tone wrote:
>>>
>>>> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.
>>>
>>> paused, not withdrawn
>>
>> And apparently he says he won't unpause unless .uk and .fr sign up for it
>> too.
>>
>>
>
> Just wanna say thanx for the responses on this thread.
>
> Most interesting
>
> Tone

On 22-Feb-23 5:13, Tone wrote:
> Putin has withdrawn from the New Start Agreement.
>
> Does that make nuclear war inevitable?
>
> If he starts to lose in Ukraine I can't see him not using nuclear
> weapons. Can you?

Start to lose?
Whatever strategic aims Putin had for starting that war, he has already
lost, without any hope of recovery, on every single count.

Note: That doesn't mean Ukraine wins.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94bqk8cB9iQ

Is an interesting, informed view on the topic.

--
Sam Plusnet

On 22-Feb-23 10:00, Ahem A Rivet's Shot wrote:
> On Wed, 22 Feb 2023 05:13:06 +0000
> Tone <tone@email.com> wrote:

>
>> It seems we are close to WW3, the West vs Russia and China?
>
> China is not siding with Russia - but they have always been very
> protective and I expect they always will be. I doubt they'll do anything
> unless a nuke heads their way - and then it would not be pretty.
>

China will look to its own interests (like pretty much every nation).

Someone pointed out that there are a lot of Nuclear bomb shelters
in/under Beijing. They were built because China was worried about an
attack - from Russia.

--
Sam Plusnet

RustyHinge <rusty.hinge@foobar.girolle.co.uk> writes:

> On 22/02/2023 11:57, maus wrote:
>
>> In WW2, there was a doubt about the loyalty of Japanese-Americans, and
>> most were rounded up and treated badly. There was not a smidgen of truth
>> in the suspicions. The biggest danger to the world at the moment is the
>> obviously senile Joe Biden. Bring back Trump!,
>
> You are rigt about the loyalty of the Japanese in USAnia, but I see no
> evidence of senility in Biden, and I have no respect for *anyone* who
> would back the ginger monstrosity - that so many USAnians voted him into
> office makes me extremely dubious about the sanity and common decency of
> more than half the population of the US.

What's particularly disturbing about the Dunning-Kruger effect is
that people are attracted to confident leaders, so politicians are
incentivized to be overconfident in their beliefs and opinions,
and to overstate their expertise. For example, Donald Trump --
despite not having any real understanding of what causes cancer --
suggested that the noise from wind turbines is causing cancer (a
claim that is not supported by any empirical studies). It is well
documented that on topics ranging from pandemics to climate
change, Trump routinely dismissed the opinions of the
professionals who have dedicated their lives to understanding
those phenomena, because he thought that he knew better. It's
bad enough that politicians like Donald Trump and Marjorie Taylor
Greene don't recognize their own ignorance and fail to
exercise the appropriate amount of caution when making claims that
can affect public health and safety -- but what is really
disturbing is that they are being celebrated for their
over-confidence (i.e., stupidity).

It is less surprising that politicians who regularly exhibit the
Dunning-Kruger effect are being elected to office when one
realizes that they are being voted in by people who also display
the Dunning-Kruger effect.
[...]
What we are dealing with here is an epidemic of stupidity that
will only get worse as divisions continue to increase. This should
motivate all of us to do what we can to ease the political
division.
[...]

https://www.rawstory.com/raw-investigates/threat-of-stupidity/

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Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada