Recently, the power has dropped off for a period of about ten seconds.
In ye olden dayes this was of little consequence, but with all today's
gadgetry, it's a proper pain where the sun don't shine.

Intertubes connection dies and takes an age to restore, then box won't
connect to Infernal Swept Embers. Other things may require switched on
again </Ecosse>, and I missed some of the rajo pogrom I wasn't listening to.

Mow Nova

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 26/06/2023 13:28, RustyHinge wrote:
> Recently, the power has dropped off for a period of about ten seconds.
> In ye olden dayes this was of little consequence, but with all today's
> gadgetry, it's a proper pain where the sun don't shine.
>
> Intertubes connection dies and takes an age to restore, then box won't
> connect to Infernal Swept Embers. Other things may require switched on
> again </Ecosse>, and I missed some of the rajo pogrom I wasn't listening
> to.

Funny.
At one time, everyone and his aunty used to talk about having a UPS, yet
I don't hear about them now.
Shirley a very modest UPS would keep essential services (i.e.
modem/router) going for a few minutes?

Are there any low-zu UPS's out there for such porpoises?

On 26/06/2023 22:44, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 26/06/2023 13:28, RustyHinge wrote:
>> Recently, the power has dropped off for a period of about ten seconds.
>> In ye olden dayes this was of little consequence, but with all today's
>> gadgetry, it's a proper pain where the sun don't shine.
>>
>> Intertubes connection dies and takes an age to restore, then box won't
>> connect to Infernal Swept Embers. Other things may require switched on
>> again </Ecosse>, and I missed some of the rajo pogrom I wasn't
>> listening to.
>
> Funny.
> At one time, everyone and his aunty used to talk about having a UPS, yet
> I don't hear about them now.
> Shirley a very modest UPS would keep essential services (i.e.
> modem/router) going for a few minutes?
>
> Are there any low-zu UPS's out there for such porpoises?
>
Dunno - I had a sma;l UPS yearsago, but the batris swole and jammed the
thing up.

Had it connected for yearsandyearsandyears.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 2023-06-26, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> On 26/06/2023 13:28, RustyHinge wrote:
>> Recently, the power has dropped off for a period of about ten seconds.
>> In ye olden dayes this was of little consequence, but with all today's
>> gadgetry, it's a proper pain where the sun don't shine.
>>
>> Intertubes connection dies and takes an age to restore, then box won't
>> connect to Infernal Swept Embers. Other things may require switched on
>> again </Ecosse>, and I missed some of the rajo pogrom I wasn't listening
>> to.
>
> Funny.
> At one time, everyone and his aunty used to talk about having a UPS, yet
> I don't hear about them now.
> Shirley a very modest UPS would keep essential services (i.e.
> modem/router) going for a few minutes?
>
> Are there any low-zu UPS's out there for such porpoises?
>

Mostpeople use laptops now, that have batteries to keep going for ?8
hours. Usually here the networks are gone as well

--
greymausg@mail.com
Boris, The Once and Future P.M.
Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of Influencers

On 26/06/2023 22:44, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> Funny.
> At one time, everyone and his aunty used to talk about having a UPS, yet
> I don't hear about them now.
> Shirley a very modest UPS would keep essential services (i.e.
> modem/router) going for a few minutes?
>

RS online are selling a 350 Watt unit for 120 GBZU including VAT. Gives
you time to shut down safely. The flattery does need checking every year
or so, though, as they all do. They also sell a 185 Watt one with a
battery that can be swapped without using tools. A decent tower computer
would now need a killer Watt system, thoughbut.

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/uninterruptible-power-supplies/4987175.

As I moved away from desktop computers to laptops a long time ago, and
use a 4G connection for comms of all sorts, it takes me a while to
notice a power cut. The router has a six hour battery in it, and the
flaptop used to average a couple of hours (More now it has an SSD
instead of a rusty disk spinning at stupid speeds). I have spares...

I do sort of hope that at least one base station in range has either its
own UPS or is outside the area of the cut.

A zbarlous solution is Starlink, which has a receiver which can be
battery powered, and satellites which are solar powered, but would cost
me about three times my current monthly fee for 4G.

If I'm watching TV or doing summat else that needs a mains supply, I
wander down to the stern, flick a couple of switches, and I have more
than 12 hours of battery power for the inverter before I have to start
the engine. I then have 300 hours of fuel for that...

When I lived in a flat for a while, I was considering a similar plan for
the power there, with some sockets kept permanently live by a charger -
battery - inverter system, and using pre-loved equipment, the major
expense would be the flatteries. There was even a handy cupboard...

There are inverter/ charger units available for 400 GBZU upwards, which
can provide 2000 VA, then you need three hundred or so quid's worth of
batteries to keep it going for longer than most power cuts. I have four
nominally 110 Ah lead acid leisure batteries on the boat which keep my
normal (Fridge, TV, laptops, router, lighting, pumps and such) stuff
powered for 15 hours, but are a few years old, so new ones would
probably last a bit longer. When I get round tuit, I'll probably replace
them with lithium, which is now cheaper per unit of energy stored over
the battery's lifetime.

--
Tciao for Now!

John.

Sam Plusnet wrote:

> On 26/06/2023 13:28, RustyHinge wrote:
>> Recently, the power has dropped off for a period of about ten seconds.
>> In ye olden dayes this was of little consequence, but with all today's
>> gadgetry, it's a proper pain where the sun don't shine.
>>
>> Intertubes connection dies and takes an age to restore, then box won't
>> connect to Infernal Swept Embers. Other things may require switched on
>> again </Ecosse>, and I missed some of the rajo pogrom I wasn't listening
>> to.
>
> Funny.
> At one time, everyone and his aunty used to talk about having a UPS, yet
> I don't hear about them now.
> Shirley a very modest UPS would keep essential services (i.e.
> modem/router) going for a few minutes?
>
> Are there any low-zu UPS's out there for such porpoises?

We used to have them in the pharmacy to keep the computers up and running
but they never seemed to work as required - usually because the batteries
died so quickly and because of the power required to be any real use -
running the system through a several hour power-cut, say. I'm sure they are
better these days though.

When I think of the number of things that I would like to be protected from
short dropouts around the house, I reckon it would have to be a central
device in the supply that covered nearly everything with one UPS. A quick
assessment of the power requirements makes me think it would have to be
almost industrial scale to be much use - so I reckon the critical item
would be the modem/router and the best thing I could do would be cover just
that. So long as the Wifi works, I can do my shopping, handle my banking
and keep in touch with the family etc. That should be easy, and now the
idea is in my head, I might look into that.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

Mistress - halfway between a Mister and a Mattress.

On 27 Jun 2023 06:16:41 GMT, maus <maus@darkstar.org> wrote:

>On 2023-06-26, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> On 26/06/2023 13:28, RustyHinge wrote:
>>> Recently, the power has dropped off for a period of about ten seconds.
>>> In ye olden dayes this was of little consequence, but with all today's
>>> gadgetry, it's a proper pain where the sun don't shine.
>>>
>>> Intertubes connection dies and takes an age to restore, then box won't
>>> connect to Infernal Swept Embers. Other things may require switched on
>>> again </Ecosse>, and I missed some of the rajo pogrom I wasn't listening
>>> to.
>>
>> Funny.
>> At one time, everyone and his aunty used to talk about having a UPS, yet
>> I don't hear about them now.
>> Shirley a very modest UPS would keep essential services (i.e.
>> modem/router) going for a few minutes?
>>
>> Are there any low-zu UPS's out there for such porpoises?
>>
>
>
>Mostpeople use laptops now, that have batteries to keep going for ?8
>hours. Usually here the networks are gone as well
>

Laptops are nice in that respect !
During one power outage, when I didn't even realize that
the power had gone off - the thing that clued-me-in was attempting
to connect to the network and not seeing the list of wifi signals
- my network plus several of my neighbours.
John T.

Bob Henson wrote:

> We used to have them in the pharmacy to keep the computers up and running
> but they never seemed to work as required - usually because the batteries
> died so quickly

Usually because people poke the UPS into cramped places where they overheat

On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 22:44:24 +0100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
> At one time, everyone and his aunty used to talk about having a UPS, yet
> I don't hear about them now.
> Shirley a very modest UPS would keep essential services (i.e.
> modem/router) going for a few minutes?
>
> Are there any low-zu UPS's out there for such porpoises?
>
There are indeed and prices start at about sixty quid.
You can add more lead acid batteris for extended times.

If you have a VoIP phone, you need one of these so you
can call the electric and whine about poor setvice.

--
"Our men and women in uniform are fighting terrorists in Iraq so
we do not have to face them here at home." G. W. Bush State of
the Union 2005

On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 06:47:49 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com
<hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:

> During one power outage, when I didn't even realize that
> the power had gone off - the thing that clued-me-in was attempting
> to connect to the network and not seeing the list of wifi signals
> - my network plus several of my neighbours.

This is why you need a UPS, just a small one will do.

On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 12:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Julian Macassey
<julian@n6are.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 06:47:49 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com
><hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:
>
>> During one power outage, when I didn't even realize that
>> the power had gone off - the thing that clued-me-in was attempting
>> to connect to the network and not seeing the list of wifi signals
>> - my network plus several of my neighbours.
>
> This is why you need a UPS, just a small one will do.
>

.... perhaps it's why some folks think they need a UPS ..
I have quite enough unnecessary clutter in my life as it is.
John T.

Tease'n'Seize wrote:

> Bob Henson wrote:
>
>> We used to have them in the pharmacy to keep the computers up and running
>> but they never seemed to work as required - usually because the batteries
>> died so quickly
>
> Usually because people poke the UPS into cramped places where they overheat

Could be. Space was at a premium, but I can't remember how tight they were.

--
Bob
Tetbury, Gloucestershire, England

After the game, the King and the pawn go into the same box. - Italian
Proverb.

On 2023-06-27, hubops@ccanoemail.com <hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 12:15:11 -0000 (UTC), Julian Macassey
><julian@n6are.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 27 Jun 2023 06:47:49 -0400, hubops@ccanoemail.com
>><hubops@ccanoemail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> During one power outage, when I didn't even realize that
>>> the power had gone off - the thing that clued-me-in was attempting
>>> to connect to the network and not seeing the list of wifi signals
>>> - my network plus several of my neighbours.
>>
>> This is why you need a UPS, just a small one will do.
>>
>
>
> ... perhaps it's why some folks think they need a UPS ..
> I have quite enough unnecessary clutter in my life as it is.
>

++

--
greymausg@mail.com
Boris, The Once and Future P.M.
Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of Influencers

On 27/06/2023 13:12, Julian Macassey wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 22:44:24 +0100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>> At one time, everyone and his aunty used to talk about having a UPS, yet
>> I don't hear about them now.
>> Shirley a very modest UPS would keep essential services (i.e.
>> modem/router) going for a few minutes?
>>gurt big capacot
>> Are there any low-zu UPS's out there for such porpoises?
>>
> There are indeed and prices start at about sixty quid.
> You can add more lead acid batteris for extended times.
>
> If you have a VoIP phone, you need one of these so you
> can call the electric and whine about poor setvice.
>
That's going to become more & more important as the POTS system gets
ripped out.

I wonder if you could make a decent low-capacity UPS using gert big
capacitors, & would they last longerer than flatteries?

On 27/06/2023 22:56, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> On 27/06/2023 13:12, Julian Macassey wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Jun 2023 22:44:24 +0100, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
>>> At one time, everyone and his aunty used to talk about having a UPS, yet
>>> I don't hear about them now.
>>> Shirley a very modest UPS would keep essential services (i.e.
>>> modem/router) going for a few minutes?
>>> gurt big capacot
>>> Are there any low-zu UPS's out there for such porpoises?
>>>
>>     There are indeed and prices start at about sixty quid.
>> You can add more lead acid batteris for extended times.
>>
>>     If you have a VoIP phone, you need one of these so you
>> can call the electric and whine about poor setvice.
>>
> That's going to become more & more important as the POTS system gets
> ripped out.
>
> I wonder if you could make a decent low-capacity UPS using gert big
> capacitors, & would they last longerer than flatteries?

Voltage. Too much of it in big capacitors is bad news.

To mantle enough capacitance at safe levels to be really useful the
capacitor would have to be VAST, even using expensive materials like
tantalum.

--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.

On 26/06/2023 22:44, Sam Plusnet wrote:

>
> Are there any low-zu UPS's out there for such porpoises?
>
Deep ends on what you call low-zu.

https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/giv-energy/giv-aio-gateway-bundle
(~7Kzu)
or
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/giv-energy/giv-batt-2600-gen2 (~1Kzu)

I believe they can both be configured as house wide UPS (but do check).

--
Nev
It causes me a great deal of regret and remorse
that so many people are unable to understand what I write.

Sam Plusnet wrote:

> That's going to become more & more important as the POTS system gets
> ripped out.
>
> I wonder if you could make a decent low-capacity UPS using gert big
> capacitors, & would they last longerer than flatteries?

For running router/voip you probably want something you can turn on when
you want to molish a call, not something that kicks in as soon as the
power goes off, but then goes flat by the time you want it.

On 2023-06-28, Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote:
> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>> That's going to become more & more important as the POTS system gets
>> ripped out.
>>
>> I wonder if you could make a decent low-capacity UPS using gert big
>> capacitors, & would they last longerer than flatteries?
>
> For running router/voip you probably want something you can turn on when
> you want to molish a call, not something that kicks in as soon as the
> power goes off, but then goes flat by the time you want it.

Exactly. I had a spare battery pack when I was driving a vehicle with a
dodgy alternator, and then there was the anti-theft things that needed
to be charged too.

--
greymausg@mail.com
Boris, The Once and Future P.M.
Fe, Fi, Fo, Fum, I smell the stench of Influencers

In article <6R-cnXfurMtOegb5nZ2dnZfqn_qdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid.?> on Wed, 28 Jun 2023 at
08:57:10 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>Sam Plusnet wrote:
>
>> That's going to become more & more important as the POTS system gets
>> ripped out.
>>
>> I wonder if you could make a decent low-capacity UPS using gert big
>> capacitors, & would they last longerer than flatteries?
>
>For running router/voip you probably want something you can turn on when
>you want to molish a call, not something that kicks in as soon as the
>power goes off, but then goes flat by the time you want it.

Hmm. So incoming calls are not important? After phoning UK Power, they
will phone me back from time to time, if the brown out is going to last
for an appreciable time.

With VIOP this will be impossible unless there is a provision made for
this. I have asked the telephone company about this, my worries have
been ignored, so far.

Yet again functionality is being downgraded for the sake of 'progress'.
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

On 28 Jun 2023 08:39:35 GMT, maus <maus@darkstar.org> wrote:
> On 2023-06-28, Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid> wrote:
>> Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> For running router/voip you probably want something you can turn on when
>> you want to molish a call, not something that kicks in as soon as the
>> power goes off, but then goes flat by the time you want it.
>
> Exactly. I had a spare battery pack when I was driving a vehicle with a
> dodgy alternator, and then there was the anti-theft things that needed
> to be charged too.

Using thst scenario, you can either keep a battery
charged to swap in when needed, or float several batteries
(piles) in paralell.

--
We’re either going to become a socialist, Marxist country like
western Europe, or we’re going to be free. - Former Oklahoma
Senator Tom Coburn - ALEC conference 2018

On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 11:08:54 +0100, Nicholas D. Richards
<nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>
> Hmm. So incoming calls are not important? After phoning UK Power, they
> will phone me back from time to time, if the brown out is going to last
> for an appreciable time.
>
> With VIOP this will be impossible unless there is a provision made for
> this. I have asked the telephone company about this, my worries have
> been ignored, so far.
>
> Yet again functionality is being downgraded for the sake of 'progress'.

I used to be able to say that the telephone is the
most reliable urtility. When gas, electric, water, sewer go tits
up, your phone line running on 48/50.60V fed by massive lead acid
batteries was there, often for remote utiity sites, like sewage
pumps to call hame and announce they weren't working.

Of course users of cordless phones, getting power from
batteries charged off the mains also needed backup, like a dusty
old desk phone powered over the phone lines.

Here's my currebt bitch, Virgin Media (AKA Slut Media),
are selling Internet access and VoIP, but they can not keep it
up, they go down more often than an ambitious starlet, sometimes
for days. So when you want to call 999, or anything you can't,
let alone go to Virgin's web site and get a status report.

Here's the best bit, they don't think that not providing
service is not breaking the contract with the customer and will
not let you cancel for non service.

We need responsible adults, not MBAs running things.

--
Our back has got to be against the wall before we can read the
writing on it. - Helen Zille, South African politician

Nicholas D. Richards wrote:

> Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>
>> For running router/voip you probably want something you can turn on when
>> you want to molish a call, not something that kicks in as soon as the
>> power goes off, but then goes flat by the time you want it.
>
> Hmm. So incoming calls are not important?

Well, we're talking about an emergency situation. I can't remember the
last time I was called to check if my house is burning, or whether I'd
fallen down the stairs.

The recent winter power outages oop t'north were several days long I
seem to remember, you'd need quite a stack of batteries just to keep a
router and DECT base running that long, when most of the time nobody
would be calling you.

In article <slrnu9o37f.1ip83.julian@n6are.com>, Julian Macassey
<julian@n6are.com> on Wed, 28 Jun 2023 at 10:35:27 awoke Nicholas from
his slumbers and wrote
>On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 11:08:54 +0100, Nicholas D. Richards
><nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hmm. So incoming calls are not important? After phoning UK Power, they
>> will phone me back from time to time, if the brown out is going to last
>> for an appreciable time.
>>
>> With VIOP this will be impossible unless there is a provision made for
>> this. I have asked the telephone company about this, my worries have
>> been ignored, so far.
>>
>> Yet again functionality is being downgraded for the sake of 'progress'.
>
> I used to be able to say that the telephone is the
>most reliable urtility. When gas, electric, water, sewer go tits
>up, your phone line running on 48/50.60V fed by massive lead acid
>batteries was there, often for remote utiity sites, like sewage
>pumps to call hame and announce they weren't working.
>
> Of course users of cordless phones, getting power from
>batteries charged off the mains also needed backup, like a dusty
>old desk phone powered over the phone lines.
>
> Here's my currebt bitch, Virgin Media (AKA Slut Media),
>are selling Internet access and VoIP, but they can not keep it
>up, they go down more often than an ambitious starlet, sometimes
>for days. So when you want to call 999, or anything you can't,
>let alone go to Virgin's web site and get a status report.
>
> Here's the best bit, they don't think that not providing
>service is not breaking the contract with the customer and will
>not let you cancel for non service.

It might be worth having a word with your local Trading
Standards/Citizens Advice they should be able to tell whether they a
breaking the legal letter of your contract.
>
> We need responsible adults, not MBAs running things.
>
MBA - Master Brain Absent?
--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

In article <0YGcnbOlCPlJhgH5nZ2dnZfqnPWdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
Tease'n'Seize <tease-and-seize@invalid.?> on Wed, 28 Jun 2023 at
12:38:55 awoke Nicholas from his slumbers and wrote
>Nicholas D. Richards wrote:
>
>> Tease'n'Seize wrote:
>>
>>> For running router/voip you probably want something you can turn on when
>>> you want to molish a call, not something that kicks in as soon as the
>>> power goes off, but then goes flat by the time you want it.
>>
>> Hmm. So incoming calls are not important?
>
>Well, we're talking about an emergency situation. I can't remember the
>last time I was called to check if my house is burning, or whether I'd
>fallen down the stairs.
>
>The recent winter power outages oop t'north were several days long I
>seem to remember, you'd need quite a stack of batteries just to keep a
>router and DECT base running that long, when most of the time nobody
>would be calling you.

If you are fit and healthy, fine. Vulnerable people do need to be
contacted by the utilities and in where necessary help may be provided.
The utility infrastructure companies (for instance UK Power) do keep
registers of people who are vulnerable in their areas. They do contact
vulnerable people by phone during outages.

If power is off for a day or so and you fall down the stairs or have a
health crisis your mobile phone flattery will have, well, run flat. How
do you call an ambulance or other help?

The destructions for DECT phones all currently include a recommendation
that you should have a phone that is not dependant upon mains power. I
have a simple phone as well as a cordless phone.

--
0sterc@tcher -

"Où sont les neiges d'antan?"

Julian Macassey <julian@n6are.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Jun 2023 11:08:54 +0100, Nicholas D. Richards
> <nicholas@salmiron.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hmm. So incoming calls are not important? After phoning UK Power, they
>> will phone me back from time to time, if the brown out is going to last
>> for an appreciable time.
>>
>> With VIOP this will be impossible unless there is a provision made for
>> this. I have asked the telephone company about this, my worries have
>> been ignored, so far.
>>
>> Yet again functionality is being downgraded for the sake of 'progress'.
>
> I used to be able to say that the telephone is the
> most reliable urtility.

Nah, gas is way more reliable. Only once had an unexpected gas cut ever.
Not so handy for making calls with though.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls