A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
End on local busses.

I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
points via local busses.

https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
> End on local busses.
>
> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
> points via local busses.
>
> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>

See also:

<https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>

"At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards the number
1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days later he
disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his account
of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
Britain."

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <sttjeg$q8g$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:33 on Tue, 8 Feb 2022,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>> End on local busses.
>>
>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>> points via local busses.
>>
>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>
>
>See also:
>
><https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>
>"At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards the number
>1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days later he
>disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his account
>of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
>Britain."

24 miles per local bus on average is quite impressive. As is 100 miles a
day.
--
Roland Perry

On 08/02/2022 12:01, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <sttjeg$q8g$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:33 on Tue, 8 Feb 2022,
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>> End on local busses.
>>>
>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>> points via local busses.
>>>
>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>
>>
>> See also:
>>
>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>
>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards the
>> number
>> 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days
>> later he
>> disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his account
>> of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
>> Britain."
>
> 24 miles per local bus on average is quite impressive. As is 100 miles a
> day.

I wonder if it is still possible, that was nearly 10 years ago.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 08/02/2022 11:16, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>> End on local busses.
>>
>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>> points via local busses.
>>
>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>
>
> See also:
>
> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>
> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards the number
> 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days later he
> disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his account
> of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
> Britain."
>
>
> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>
I took the 1A out to Land's End, though I was in Penzance when I did it.
It was also in the second half of the day, and so I had to order a taxi
from Penzance to take me back from there as bus service had ended for
the by that time.

Anyway, I understand that it was once possible to travel from New York
to Chicago via the old Interurbans.

It's also possible to travel between Moscow and St. Petersburg by local
trains, called "elektrichki."

I also understand that it is possible to travel from Moscow all the way
to Vladivostok via electrichki.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <sttjeg$q8g$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:33 on Tue, 8 Feb 2022,
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>> End on local busses.
>>>
>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>> points via local busses.
>>>
>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>
>>
>> See also:
>>
>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>
>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards the number
>> 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days later he
>> disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his account
>> of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
>> Britain."
>
> 24 miles per local bus on average is quite impressive. As is 100 miles a
> day.

It'll be 'local bus' defined as 'not long-distance coach (eg National
Express) rather than 'town centre to housing estate and back'.

I have this book somewhere but I can't remember whether I've read it all (I
definitely read his 'walking the tube' book), but I suspect that, for
example, Kendal - Keswick will be one hop; similarly, depending which way
he went in the south west, Weston-super-mare to Bristol is one journey, or
Yeovil-Wells-Bristol is two journeys.

I do seem to remember that he didn't plan ahead at all, just turned up and
saw where buses went to; and that this did on one occasion leave him
stranded somewhere mid-afternoon.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On 08/02/2022 13:03, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 08/02/2022 12:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <sttjeg$q8g$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:33 on Tue, 8 Feb
>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>>> End on local busses.
>>>>
>>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>>> points via local busses.
>>>>
>>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>>
>>>
>>> See also:
>>>
>>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>>
>>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards the
>>> number
>>> 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days
>>> later he
>>> disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his
>>> account
>>> of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
>>> Britain."
>>
>> 24 miles per local bus on average is quite impressive. As is 100 miles
>> a day.
>
> I wonder if it is still possible, that was nearly 10 years ago.

Last year someone did Charing Cross to Morecambe in a day:
https://twitter.com/politic_animal/status/1428438081871433731?s=20
tl;dr version:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58297172

--
Arthur Figgis

In message <iOednQbw89eYJZ__nZ2dnUU7-I3NnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
18:35:48 on Tue, 8 Feb 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
remarked:
>On 08/02/2022 13:03, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 08/02/2022 12:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <sttjeg$q8g$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:33 on Tue, 8 Feb
>>>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>>>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>>>> End on local busses.
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>>>> points via local busses.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> See also:
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>>>
>>>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards
>>>>the number 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and
>>>>eleven days later he disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland.
>>>>Move Along Please is his account of that gruelling 1100-mile
>>>>odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of Britain."
>>>
>>> 24 miles per local bus on average is quite impressive. As is 100
>>>miles a day.
>> I wonder if it is still possible, that was nearly 10 years ago.
>
>Last year someone did Charing Cross to Morecambe in a day:

21 and a half hour day.

>https://twitter.com/politic_animal/status/1428438081871433731?s=20
>tl;dr version:
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58297172

Are services like the X7 really "local buses"? (Yes, I know, he only
claimed "public buses".)
--
Roland Perry

In message <stu8bu$f1o$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:13:34 on Tue, 8 Feb 2022,
Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sttjeg$q8g$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:33 on Tue, 8 Feb 2022,
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>>> End on local busses.
>>>>
>>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>>> points via local busses.
>>>>
>>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>>
>>>
>>> See also:
>>>
>>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>>
>>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards the number
>>> 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days later he
>>> disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his account
>>> of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
>>> Britain."
>>
>> 24 miles per local bus on average is quite impressive. As is 100 miles a
>> day.
>
>It'll be 'local bus' defined as 'not long-distance coach (eg National
>Express) rather than 'town centre to housing estate and back'.

Yes, but even so, a lot of the country isn't awash with buses.

If you follow the Fen Line north from Cambridge there's a bus via Ely
all the way to Littleport, which I find to be quite surprising, albeit
only one every two hours for the final hop. At Littleport Station
there's a poster (most stations have one) for "onward transport" which
basically says "buses - SOL".

To get to Downham Market, I think you'd have to go back to Ely, get the
once every 2.5hr bus to March, then a local bus to Wisbech, an Express
bus to Kings Lynn, and then another local bus south.

Actually, it appears that last one goes as far as Southery (pronounced
to rhyme with Motherly) every two hours, which is but a six mile walk
along the banks of the Ouse from Littleport.

>I have this book somewhere but I can't remember whether I've read it all (I
>definitely read his 'walking the tube' book), but I suspect that, for
>example, Kendal - Keswick will be one hop; similarly, depending which way
>he went in the south west, Weston-super-mare to Bristol is one journey, or
>Yeovil-Wells-Bristol is two journeys.
>
>I do seem to remember that he didn't plan ahead at all, just turned up and
>saw where buses went to; and that this did on one occasion leave him
>stranded somewhere mid-afternoon.
>
>
>Anna Noyd-Dryver
>

--
Roland Perry

Graeme Wall <rail@greywall.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> On 08/02/2022 12:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <sttjeg$q8g$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:33 on Tue, 8 Feb 2022,
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>>> End on local busses.
>>>>
>>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>>> points via local busses.
>>>>
>>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>>
>>>
>>> See also:
>>>
>>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>>
>>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards the
>>> number
>>> 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days
>>> later he
>>> disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his account
>>> of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
>>> Britain."
>>
>> 24 miles per local bus on average is quite impressive. As is 100 miles a
>> day.
>
> I wonder if it is still possible, that was nearly 10 years ago.
>

I think similar Odysseys are undertaken more often than we realise often as
a charitable fundraiser.
This one from Hampshire got a degree of publicity from the media in this
region and in places she visited. If you can provide some interest for your
local BBC station then others en route can show an interest as you pass.

<https://www.hampshirelive.news/news/hampshire-news/gran-who-lives-near-hampshire-6309227>

and she kept her supporters informed of progress by Face Book under the
moniker Boomer on a Bus
which is still there.

<https://www.facebook.com/boomeronabus/>

Not the whole UK of course due to the coverage limitation of using the ENBP
but she did travel along the border country and entered Scotland presumably
on Cross border service where the ENBP was valid.

GH

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>> End on local busses.
>>
>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>> points via local busses.
>>
>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>
>
> See also:
>
> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>
> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards the number
> 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days later he
> disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his account
> of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
> Britain."
>
>
It would be interesting to compare that with a book that I read before bus
deregulation took place.
Cannot remember its exact title now but the cover featured a road in the
open countryside
with two Bristol single deckers probably RE or LH types passing each other
,one was in NBC Poppy Red the other In NBC Leaf Green.
In that era with no bus pass you had to rely on your own resources and the
Norwich Union.

<https://youtu.be/qwDBj4mlZjg>

Theres a thought, did the NBC ever offer some form of Rover either Regional
or National like British Rail(ways) did?

GH

On 09/02/2022 10:08, Marland wrote:
> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>> End on local busses.
>>>
>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>> points via local busses.
>>>
>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>
>>
>> See also:
>>
>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>
>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards the number
>> 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days later he
>> disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his account
>> of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
>> Britain."
>>
>>
> It would be interesting to compare that with a book that I read before bus
> deregulation took place.
> Cannot remember its exact title now but the cover featured a road in the
> open countryside
> with two Bristol single deckers probably RE or LH types passing each other
> ,one was in NBC Poppy Red the other In NBC Leaf Green.
> In that era with no bus pass you had to rely on your own resources and the
> Norwich Union.
>
> <https://youtu.be/qwDBj4mlZjg>
>
>
> Theres a thought, did the NBC ever offer some form of Rover either Regional
> or National like British Rail(ways) did?
>

London Transport did Red Rovers and Green Rovers back in the day so I
suspect NBC would have done something similar.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

In message <4p270hh8rdul6vvufnmt9o7tmn7edn7ob7@4ax.com>, at 09:43:57 on
Wed, 9 Feb 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 07:14:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <iOednQbw89eYJZ__nZ2dnUU7-I3NnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>18:35:48 on Tue, 8 Feb 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
>>remarked:
>>>On 08/02/2022 13:03, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> On 08/02/2022 12:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>> In message <sttjeg$q8g$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:33 on Tue, 8 Feb
>>>>>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>>>>>> End on local busses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>>>>>> points via local busses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> See also:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards
>>>>>>the number 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and
>>>>>>eleven days later he disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland.
>>>>>>Move Along Please is his account of that gruelling 1100-mile
>>>>>>odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of Britain."
>>>>>
>>>>> 24 miles per local bus on average is quite impressive. As is 100
>>>>>miles a day.

>>>> I wonder if it is still possible, that was nearly 10 years ago.
>>>
>>>Last year someone did Charing Cross to Morecambe in a day:
>>
>>21 and a half hour day.
>>
>>>https://twitter.com/politic_animal/status/1428438081871433731?s=20
>>>tl;dr version:
>>>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58297172
>>
>>Are services like the X7 really "local buses"? (Yes, I know, he only
>>claimed "public buses".)
>
>I'm not sure what definition of local bus you'd use other than that
>used in legislation. A proxy for local bus may be 'accepts
>concessionary passes'.

That's what I had in mind. I'm aware some "X" buses do accept such
passes.

And then there's whatever the definition is for the purposes of road
signs saying "No Motor Vehicles, except local buses".

>The thing about looking to exclude X7-type routes is that they're
>often all that is left. For example the been-there-for-decades route
>from the Bishop's Stortford area (latterly Stansted Airport) to
>Chelmsford was withdrawn late last year, leaving only the X10 and X30
>which were supposed to be express routes servibg the airport.
>It's a nationwide rerun of the decline of Green Line, except that this
>time it's sthe slow services that are being withdrawn.

--
Roland Perry

On 09/02/2022 10:15, Graeme Wall wrote:
> On 09/02/2022 10:08, Marland wrote:
>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>>> End on local busses.
>>>>
>>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>>> points via local busses.
>>>>
>>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>>
>>>
>>> See also:
>>>
>>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>>
>>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards the
>>> number
>>> 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days
>>> later he
>>> disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his
>>> account
>>> of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
>>> Britain."
>>>
>>>
>> It would be interesting to compare that with a book that I read before
>> bus
>> deregulation took place.
>> Cannot remember its exact title now   but the cover featured  a road
>> in the
>> open countryside
>> with two Bristol single deckers probably RE or LH types passing each
>> other
>> ,one was in NBC Poppy Red the other In NBC Leaf Green.
>> In that era with no bus pass you had to rely on your own resources and
>> the
>> Norwich Union.
>>
>> <https://youtu.be/qwDBj4mlZjg>
>>
>>
>> Theres a thought, did the NBC ever offer some form of Rover either
>> Regional
>>   or National like British Rail(ways) did?
>>
>
> London Transport did Red Rovers and Green Rovers back in the day so I
> suspect NBC would have done something similar.
>

Some individual NBC operators did the equivalent of day rovers, and some
"PTA/PTE" & successors still do all-operator daily rovers and season
tickets, but I don't remember any bus equivalent of the all-line
railrovers.

Arriva & Stagecoach still have some regional day rover tickets.

In message <su0bgk$9sl$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:19:33 on Wed, 9 Feb 2022,
Bevan Price <bevanprice666@gmail.com> remarked:
>On 09/02/2022 10:15, Graeme Wall wrote:
>> On 09/02/2022 10:08, Marland wrote:
>>> Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>>>> End on local busses.
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>>>> points via local busses.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> See also:
>>>>
>>>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>>>
>>>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards
>>>>the number
>>>> 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and eleven days
>>>>later he
>>>> disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland. Move Along Please is his
>>>>account
>>>> of that gruelling 1100-mile odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of
>>>> Britain."
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It would be interesting to compare that with a book that I read
>>>before bus
>>> deregulation took place.
>>> Cannot remember its exact title now   but the cover featured  a
>>>road in the
>>> open countryside
>>> with two Bristol single deckers probably RE or LH types passing each
>>>other
>>> ,one was in NBC Poppy Red the other In NBC Leaf Green.
>>> In that era with no bus pass you had to rely on your own resources
>>>and the
>>> Norwich Union.
>>>
>>> <https://youtu.be/qwDBj4mlZjg>
>>>
>>>
>>> Theres a thought, did the NBC ever offer some form of Rover either
>>>Regional
>>>   or National like British Rail(ways) did?
>>>
>> London Transport did Red Rovers and Green Rovers back in the day so
>>I suspect NBC would have done something similar.
>
>Some individual NBC operators did the equivalent of day rovers, and
>some "PTA/PTE" & successors still do all-operator daily rovers and
>season tickets, but I don't remember any bus equivalent of the all-line
>railrovers.
>
>Arriva & Stagecoach still have some regional day rover tickets.

It's worse than that. Stagecoach (I have less experience of Arriva) have
a pricing strategy that makes it almost futile to buy anything but a
county-wide rover.

That's not especially new: when I lived in Nottingham fifteen years
ago, there were slim-to-none use-cases for anything but a City(&
suburbs)-wide day rover ticket.
--
Roland Perry

On 09/02/2022 07:14, Roland Perry wrote:

> Are services like the X7 really "local buses"?
Yes. I've actually used it, to get to Brixworth church.

--
Arthur Figgis

On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 10:30:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <4p270hh8rdul6vvufnmt9o7tmn7edn7ob7@4ax.com>, at 09:43:57 on
>Wed, 9 Feb 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 07:14:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <iOednQbw89eYJZ__nZ2dnUU7-I3NnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>18:35:48 on Tue, 8 Feb 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
>>>remarked:
>>>>On 08/02/2022 13:03, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> On 08/02/2022 12:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <sttjeg$q8g$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:33 on Tue, 8 Feb
>>>>>>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>>>>>>> End on local busses.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>>>>>>> points via local busses.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See also:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards
>>>>>>>the number 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and
>>>>>>>eleven days later he disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland.
>>>>>>>Move Along Please is his account of that gruelling 1100-mile
>>>>>>>odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of Britain."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 24 miles per local bus on average is quite impressive. As is 100
>>>>>>miles a day.
>
>>>>> I wonder if it is still possible, that was nearly 10 years ago.
>>>>
>>>>Last year someone did Charing Cross to Morecambe in a day:
>>>
>>>21 and a half hour day.
>>>
>>>>https://twitter.com/politic_animal/status/1428438081871433731?s=20
>>>>tl;dr version:
>>>>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58297172
>>>
>>>Are services like the X7 really "local buses"? (Yes, I know, he only
>>>claimed "public buses".)
>>
>>I'm not sure what definition of local bus you'd use other than that
>>used in legislation. A proxy for local bus may be 'accepts
>>concessionary passes'.
>
>That's what I had in mind. I'm aware some "X" buses do accept such
>passes.
>
>And then there's whatever the definition is for the purposes of road
>signs saying "No Motor Vehicles, except local buses".
>
In short, a bus service with no more than 15 miles between stops
(-ish)

In long :-

[2015 TSRGDs]
“local bus” a public service vehicle used for the provision of a local
service not being an excursion or tour
“local service” has the meaning given in section 2 of the Transport
Act 1985(d)

[Transport Act 1985]
2.Local services.
(1)In this Act “local service” means a service, using one or more
public service vehicles, for the carriage of passengers by road at
separate fares other than one—
(a)which is excluded by subsection (4) below; or
(b)in relation to which (except in an emergency) one or both of the
conditions mentioned in subsection (2) below are met with
respect to every passenger using the service.
(2)The conditions are that—
(a)the place where he is set down is fifteen miles or more, measured
in a straight line, from the place where he was taken up;
(b)some point on the route between those places is fifteen miles or
more, measured in a straight line, from either of those places.
(3)Where a service consists of one or more parts with respect to which
one or both of the conditions are met, and one or more parts with
respect to which neither of them is met, each of those parts shall
be treated as a separate service for the purposes of subsection (1)
above.
(4)A service shall not be regarded for the purposes of this Act as a
local service if—
(a)the conditions set out in Part III of Schedule 1 to the 1981 Act
(trips organised privately by persons acting independently of
vehicle operators, etc.) are met in respect of each journey made
by the vehicles used in providing the service; or
(b)every vehicle used in providing the service is so used under a
permit granted under section 19 of this Act.
(5)Subsections (5)(b), (c) and (6) of section 1 of the 1981 Act
(meaning of “fares”) shall apply for the purposes of this section.

Simples!

>>The thing about looking to exclude X7-type routes is that they're
>>often all that is left. For example the been-there-for-decades route
>>from the Bishop's Stortford area (latterly Stansted Airport) to
>>Chelmsford was withdrawn late last year, leaving only the X10 and X30
>>which were supposed to be express routes servibg the airport.
>>It's a nationwide rerun of the decline of Green Line, except that this
>>time it's sthe slow services that are being withdrawn.

In message <tm790hpoth74b3sm1sk1vq20j1nu4sib2u@4ax.com>, at 05:27:19 on
Thu, 10 Feb 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
remarked:
>On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 10:30:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <4p270hh8rdul6vvufnmt9o7tmn7edn7ob7@4ax.com>, at 09:43:57 on
>>Wed, 9 Feb 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 07:14:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <iOednQbw89eYJZ__nZ2dnUU7-I3NnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>>18:35:48 on Tue, 8 Feb 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
>>>>remarked:
>>>>>On 08/02/2022 13:03, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 12:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>> In message <sttjeg$q8g$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:33 on Tue, 8 Feb
>>>>>>>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>>>>>>>> End on local busses.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>>>>>>>> points via local busses.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See also:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards
>>>>>>>>the number 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and
>>>>>>>>eleven days later he disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland.
>>>>>>>>Move Along Please is his account of that gruelling 1100-mile
>>>>>>>>odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of Britain."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 24 miles per local bus on average is quite impressive. As is 100
>>>>>>>miles a day.
>>
>>>>>> I wonder if it is still possible, that was nearly 10 years ago.
>>>>>
>>>>>Last year someone did Charing Cross to Morecambe in a day:
>>>>
>>>>21 and a half hour day.
>>>>
>>>>>https://twitter.com/politic_animal/status/1428438081871433731?s=20
>>>>>tl;dr version:
>>>>>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58297172
>>>>
>>>>Are services like the X7 really "local buses"? (Yes, I know, he only
>>>>claimed "public buses".)
>>>
>>>I'm not sure what definition of local bus you'd use other than that
>>>used in legislation. A proxy for local bus may be 'accepts
>>>concessionary passes'.
>>
>>That's what I had in mind. I'm aware some "X" buses do accept such
>>passes.
>>
>>And then there's whatever the definition is for the purposes of road
>>signs saying "No Motor Vehicles, except local buses".
>>
>In short, a bus service with no more than 15 miles between stops
>(-ish)
>
>In long :-
>
>[2015 TSRGDs]
>“local bus” a public service vehicle used for the provision of a local
>service not being an excursion or tour
>“local service” has the meaning given in section 2 of the Transport
> Act 1985(d)
>
>[Transport Act 1985]
>2.Local services.
>(1)In this Act “local service” means a service, using one or more
> public service vehicles, for the carriage of passengers by road at
>separate fares other than one—
> (a)which is excluded by subsection (4) below; or
> (b)in relation to which (except in an emergency) one or both of the
>conditions mentioned in subsection (2) below are met with
> respect to every passenger using the service.
>(2)The conditions are that—
> (a)the place where he is set down is fifteen miles or more, measured
>in a straight line, from the place where he was taken up;
> (b)some point on the route between those places is fifteen miles or
> more, measured in a straight line, from either of those places.
>(3)Where a service consists of one or more parts with respect to which
>one or both of the conditions are met, and one or more parts with
> respect to which neither of them is met, each of those parts shall
> be treated as a separate service for the purposes of subsection (1)
>above.
>(4)A service shall not be regarded for the purposes of this Act as a
>local service if—
> (a)the conditions set out in Part III of Schedule 1 to the 1981 Act
>(trips organised privately by persons acting independently of
> vehicle operators, etc.) are met in respect of each journey made
>by the vehicles used in providing the service; or
> (b)every vehicle used in providing the service is so used under a
> permit granted under section 19 of this Act.
>(5)Subsections (5)(b), (c) and (6) of section 1 of the 1981 Act
>(meaning of “fares”) shall apply for the purposes of this section.
>
>Simples!

I'd not heard about the 15 mile limit, but "Licenced by the Traffic
Commissioners" is widely quoted, however that's stage buses, not the s19
provision.

Although I'm slightly troubled by the implication that any service
licenced by the Traffic Commissioners under s19 as in effect a school
bus, is NOT a local service. When they might be the very vehicles where
the most obvious access to the school (or other community facility)
might be the other side of the prohibition sign.

The breaking of a service into parts tends to suggest it changes its
personality en-route, indeed also changing personality if it happens to
be empty (ie no passengers *using* the service at the time).

However, perhaps the intention was to imply that as long as the
next-nearest bus stop served was less than 15 miles from the "No Motor
Vehicles" sign, then at that instant it's a "local service", even if
once out in the countryside it turns out there's a stretch of 15+ miles
between stops.

>>>The thing about looking to exclude X7-type routes is that they're
>>>often all that is left. For example the been-there-for-decades route
>>>from the Bishop's Stortford area (latterly Stansted Airport) to
>>>Chelmsford was withdrawn late last year, leaving only the X10 and X30
>>>which were supposed to be express routes servibg the airport.
>>>It's a nationwide rerun of the decline of Green Line, except that this
>>>time it's sthe slow services that are being withdrawn.

--
Roland Perry

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 07:03:33 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <tm790hpoth74b3sm1sk1vq20j1nu4sib2u@4ax.com>, at 05:27:19 on
>> Thu, 10 Feb 2022, Charles Ellson <charlesellson@btinternet.com>
>> remarked:
>>> On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 10:30:50 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <4p270hh8rdul6vvufnmt9o7tmn7edn7ob7@4ax.com>, at 09:43:57 on
>>>> Wed, 9 Feb 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 07:14:42 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <iOednQbw89eYJZ__nZ2dnUU7-I3NnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>>>>> 18:35:48 on Tue, 8 Feb 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
>>>>>> remarked:
>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 13:03, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 08/02/2022 12:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <sttjeg$q8g$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:16:33 on Tue, 8 Feb
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> A film about John Elloway, who travelled from John o'Groats to Land's
>>>>>>>>>>> End on local busses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I remember asking if it would be possible to travel from/to the two
>>>>>>>>>>> points via local busses.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://trailers.apple.com/trailers/samuel_goldwyn/the-last-bus/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> See also:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> <https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/17307103-move-along-please>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "At 10.41am on a Tuesday morning in September, Mark Mason boards
>>>>>>>>>> the number 1A bus at Land’s End in Cornwall. Forty-six buses and
>>>>>>>>>> eleven days later he disembarks at John O’Groats in Scotland.
>>>>>>>>>> Move Along Please is his account of that gruelling 1100-mile
>>>>>>>>>> odyssey; a paint-by-bus-numbers portrait of Britain."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 24 miles per local bus on average is quite impressive. As is 100
>>>>>>>>> miles a day.
>>>>
>>>>>>>> I wonder if it is still possible, that was nearly 10 years ago.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Last year someone did Charing Cross to Morecambe in a day:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 21 and a half hour day.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/politic_animal/status/1428438081871433731?s=20
>>>>>>> tl;dr version:
>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58297172
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Are services like the X7 really "local buses"? (Yes, I know, he only
>>>>>> claimed "public buses".)
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm not sure what definition of local bus you'd use other than that
>>>>> used in legislation. A proxy for local bus may be 'accepts
>>>>> concessionary passes'.
>>>>
>>>> That's what I had in mind. I'm aware some "X" buses do accept such
>>>> passes.
>>>>
>>>> And then there's whatever the definition is for the purposes of road
>>>> signs saying "No Motor Vehicles, except local buses".
>>>>
>>> In short, a bus service with no more than 15 miles between stops
>>> (-ish)
>>>
>>> In long :-
>>>
> Legislation snipped.
>>>
>>> Simples!
>>
>> I'd not heard about the 15 mile limit, but "Licenced by the Traffic
>> Commissioners" is widely quoted, however that's stage buses, not the s19
>> provision.
>>
>> Although I'm slightly troubled by the implication that any service
>> licenced by the Traffic Commissioners under s19 as in effect a school
>> bus, is NOT a local service. When they might be the very vehicles where
>> the most obvious access to the school (or other community facility)
>> might be the other side of the prohibition sign.
>>
>> The breaking of a service into parts tends to suggest it changes its
>> personality en-route, indeed also changing personality if it happens to
>> be empty (ie no passengers *using* the service at the time).
>
> This is an odd thing. The X30 that I mentioned earlier is Stansted to
> Southend. When you board at Stansted the (electronic) blind displays
> Chelmsford. Upon reaching Chelmsford people stay on board, the blind
> is changed to Southend, and off it goes.

Coming back to trains, Fife Circle trains leaving Waverley are announced as
being for (IIRC) Glenrothes with Thornton. Once they leave Haymarket they
are announced as being for Edinburgh Waverley.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply

On 10/02/2022 09:43, Sam Wilson wrote:
> Coming back to trains, Fife Circle trains leaving Waverley are announced as
> being for (IIRC) Glenrothes with Thornton. Once they leave Haymarket they
> are announced as being for Edinburgh Waverley.

I'm surprised it's so early. Visitors getting on at Haymarket must get
worried, as they are hoping to travel away from Waverley. I'd have made
the change after leaving Inverkeithing or later.

In message <i2m90h1bpjqdogij2o4l3dq9upoe0i3eft@4ax.com>, at 09:21:21 on
Thu, 10 Feb 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:

>>The breaking of a service into parts tends to suggest it changes its
>>personality en-route, indeed also changing personality if it happens to
>>be empty (ie no passengers *using* the service at the time).
>
>This is an odd thing. The X30 that I mentioned earlier is Stansted to
>Southend. When you board at Stansted the (electronic) blind displays
>Chelmsford. Upon reaching Chelmsford people stay on board, the blind
>is changed to Southend, and off it goes.

Looking at some of the routes mentioned in passing (not necessarily the
X30), I see they have special Covid measures, which could involve
getting off and on again rather than simply remaining on board.
--
Roland Perry

In message <80r90hhh20lbcsuqtp3pddua75t8copeb0@4ax.com>, at 13:22:06 on
Thu, 10 Feb 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 09:43:50 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
><ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 07:03:33 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>
>>>
>>> This is an odd thing. The X30 that I mentioned earlier is Stansted to
>>> Southend. When you board at Stansted the (electronic) blind displays
>>> Chelmsford. Upon reaching Chelmsford people stay on board, the blind
>>> is changed to Southend, and off it goes.
>>
>>Coming back to trains, Fife Circle trains leaving Waverley are announced as
>>being for (IIRC) Glenrothes with Thornton. Once they leave Haymarket they
>>are announced as being for Edinburgh Waverley.
>
>Yes, they really don't want you to go the long way round. There's a
>negative easement in place to penalise you if you do.

>But it's no different from other false destinations mentioned here in
>the past to avoud passengers getting a suboptimum trains.
>
>Leeds - York via Knaresborough (advertised to Poppleton)
>York - Leeds (advertised to Burley Park)
>
>Formerly London - Oxford stoppers were advertised to Radley
>Peterborough - Liverpool Street advertised to Shenfield
>
>And I've no doubt many more.

The classic was always Kings Cross to Foxton, but that was to prevent
people getting sub-optimally *timed* trains, not sub-optimally *routed*
ones.
--
Roland Perry

On 2022-02-10 13:22:06 +0000, Ken said:

> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 09:43:50 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 07:03:33 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>
>>>
>>> This is an odd thing. The X30 that I mentioned earlier is Stansted to
>>> Southend. When you board at Stansted the (electronic) blind displays
>>> Chelmsford. Upon reaching Chelmsford people stay on board, the blind
>>> is changed to Southend, and off it goes.
>>
>> Coming back to trains, Fife Circle trains leaving Waverley are announced as
>> being for (IIRC) Glenrothes with Thornton. Once they leave Haymarket they
>> are announced as being for Edinburgh Waverley.
>>
>> Sam
>
> Yes, they really don't want you to go the long way round. There's a
> negative easement in place to penalise you if you do.
> But it's no different from other false destinations mentioned here in
> the past to avoud passengers getting a suboptimum trains.
>
> Leeds - York via Knaresborough (advertised to Poppleton)
> York - Leeds (advertised to Burley Park)
>
> Formerly London - Oxford stoppers were advertised to Radley
> Peterborough - Liverpool Street advertised to Shenfield
>
> And I've no doubt many more.

I'll have to check how the Cannon St to Cannon St via Greenwich,
Woolwich and Sidcup (or other way round) are advertised.

Robin

On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 14:54:25 +0100, Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:

>On 2022-02-10 13:22:06 +0000, Ken said:
>
>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 09:43:50 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 07:03:33 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>
>>>>
>>>> This is an odd thing. The X30 that I mentioned earlier is Stansted to
>>>> Southend. When you board at Stansted the (electronic) blind displays
>>>> Chelmsford. Upon reaching Chelmsford people stay on board, the blind
>>>> is changed to Southend, and off it goes.
>>>
>>> Coming back to trains, Fife Circle trains leaving Waverley are announced as
>>> being for (IIRC) Glenrothes with Thornton. Once they leave Haymarket they
>>> are announced as being for Edinburgh Waverley.
>>>
>>> Sam
>>
>> Yes, they really don't want you to go the long way round. There's a
>> negative easement in place to penalise you if you do.
>> But it's no different from other false destinations mentioned here in
>> the past to avoud passengers getting a suboptimum trains.
>>
>> Leeds - York via Knaresborough (advertised to Poppleton)
>> York - Leeds (advertised to Burley Park)
>>
>> Formerly London - Oxford stoppers were advertised to Radley
>> Peterborough - Liverpool Street advertised to Shenfield
>>
>> And I've no doubt many more.
>
>I'll have to check how the Cannon St to Cannon St via Greenwich,
>Woolwich and Sidcup (or other way round) are advertised.

There's also the Hounslow loop.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 14:54:25 +0100, Bob <email@domain.com> wrote:
>
>> On 2022-02-10 13:22:06 +0000, Ken said:
>>
>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 09:43:50 -0000 (UTC), Sam Wilson
>>> <ukr@dummy.wislons.fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>>> On Thu, 10 Feb 2022 07:03:33 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This is an odd thing. The X30 that I mentioned earlier is Stansted to
>>>>> Southend. When you board at Stansted the (electronic) blind displays
>>>>> Chelmsford. Upon reaching Chelmsford people stay on board, the blind
>>>>> is changed to Southend, and off it goes.
>>>>
>>>> Coming back to trains, Fife Circle trains leaving Waverley are announced as
>>>> being for (IIRC) Glenrothes with Thornton. Once they leave Haymarket they
>>>> are announced as being for Edinburgh Waverley.
>>>>
>>>> Sam
>>>
>>> Yes, they really don't want you to go the long way round. There's a
>>> negative easement in place to penalise you if you do.
>>> But it's no different from other false destinations mentioned here in
>>> the past to avoud passengers getting a suboptimum trains.
>>>
>>> Leeds - York via Knaresborough (advertised to Poppleton)
>>> York - Leeds (advertised to Burley Park)
>>>
>>> Formerly London - Oxford stoppers were advertised to Radley
>>> Peterborough - Liverpool Street advertised to Shenfield
>>>
>>> And I've no doubt many more.
>>
>> I'll have to check how the Cannon St to Cannon St via Greenwich,
>> Woolwich and Sidcup (or other way round) are advertised.
>
> There's also the Hounslow loop.

And the Cathcart circle, though I’ve never been on that so I don’t know how
it’s described.

Sam

--
The entity formerly known as Sam.Wilson@ed.ac.uk
Spit the dummy to reply