On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 02:02:52 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 16 December 2022 at 08:35:50 UTC, max.it wrote:
>> Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed will become the youngest man to play Test
>> cricket for England after being handed a debut in the third Test
>> against Pakistan.
>
>Rehan's Dad was invited into the huddle when Rehan got his cap.
>
>"Best moment of my life", in his words to Agnew just now.

Cricketers of the 1950s didn't bother having fathers.... RH

On 12/16/2022 1:55 AM, Robert Henderson wrote:
> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 8:35:50 AM UTC, max.it wrote:
>> Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed will become the youngest man to play Test
>> cricket for England after being handed a debut in the third Test
>> against Pakistan.
>
> And he has justified his selection because....RH
>>
>> The 18-year-old breaks the record of legendary Yorkshire batter Brian
>> Close,
>
> Allrounder bowling pace and ofspin RH
>
> which has stood since 1949.
>
> Jack (JN) Crawford was the youngest until Close passed him
>>
>> Ahmed and wicketkeeper Ben Foakes come into the side in Karachi in
>> place of pace bowler James Anderson and all-rounder Will Jacks.
>
> Despite Jacks taking 6 wickets in his first Test bow and and scoring very useful runs
>>
> RH

Nobody gives a fuck about your "personal OPINIONS and emotions".

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/pak-vs-eng-2nd-test-multan-ben-stokes-on-rehan-ahmed-we-re-very-impressed-with-what-we-ve-seen-1349966

Ben Stokes on Rehan Ahmed: 'We're very impressed with what we've seen'
Legspinner will become England's youngest men's debutant, but captain is
convinced he's ready

At 2-0 the series is won, though Stokes insists Ahmed would have been in
contention for this Karachi Test even if the scoreline was 1-1. The
nature of a dry surface with low bounce should suit his sharp, flat
leggies. And to judge by the character that Ahmed has shown already in
his rapid rise to prominence, the pressure of a decider would have been
taken in his stride.

"We obviously brought him into the squad to try and get him amongst us
and experience what it's like being in this cricket team and we've been
very impressed with what we've seen.

"He's got a lot of skill with both bat and ball, so it's great to be
able to bring someone with the talent and the excitement that he has
into the squad and see what he's got this week."

"He's got a vast array of shots. And obviously a wrist-spinner is great
to be able to have in your team, especially in these conditions.

On Friday, 16 December 2022 at 08:35:50 UTC, max.it wrote:
> Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed will become the youngest man to play Test
> cricket for England after being handed a debut in the third Test
> against Pakistan.

He's bowled better than I was expecting (a Kerrigan-ish debut) given his circumstances.

I'd never have picked him in non-dead rubber circumstances but this is an ideal opportunity to give someone some experience who they very clearly rate. As I type Nauman Ali is going after him so it'll be interesting to see how he gets on there.

Interesting chat on comms about him having a better googly than a stock leg-spinner. In the U19 world cup I'd notice on a couple occasions his googly seemed to drift inwards and then spin in, too, which is peculiar. Not sure I've seen that so far here.

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 03:10:07 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, 16 December 2022 at 08:35:50 UTC, max.it wrote:
>> Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed will become the youngest man to play Test
>> cricket for England after being handed a debut in the third Test
>> against Pakistan.
>
>He's bowled better than I was expecting (a Kerrigan-ish debut) given his circumstances.

A fairly dreadful first spell which must have had the Pakistan
supporter in ecstasy, but having got past the nerves his later bowling
has been entirely acceptable - nothing fantastic, but certainly not as
embarrassing as Kerrigan/Crane/Schofield.

17-2-52-2 are his figures as I write if we ignore the first spell, and
even a moron would have difficulty in complaining about that.
>
>I'd never have picked him in non-dead rubber circumstances but this is an ideal opportunity to give someone some experience who they very clearly rate. As I type Nauman Ali is going after him so it'll be interesting to see how he gets on there.

Precisely. They haven't picked him because they think he's going to
win this match for them. They've picked him because they think he's
going to win many matches later on and want him to do his
apprenticeship when people aren't really taking much notice of him and
it doesn't really matter if he fails.

Cheers,

Mike

On Saturday, 17 December 2022 at 11:48:16 UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:

> Precisely. They haven't picked him because they think he's going to
> win this match for them. They've picked him because they think he's
> going to win many matches later on and want him to do his
> apprenticeship when people aren't really taking much notice of him and
> it doesn't really matter if he fails.

I can imagine he's being handled prior to the match - and during - probably better than Kerrigan was. Can imagine Stokes telling him not to worry about getting carted a) to take the weight off his shoulders and b) that's Bazball anyway. Concede more 6s to take more wickets.

Now let's see how Bazball copes with a few tricky twilight overs and what their plan is...

Richard

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 04:16:09 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Saturday, 17 December 2022 at 11:48:16 UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
>
>> Precisely. They haven't picked him because they think he's going to
>> win this match for them. They've picked him because they think he's
>> going to win many matches later on and want him to do his
>> apprenticeship when people aren't really taking much notice of him and
>> it doesn't really matter if he fails.
>
>I can imagine he's being handled prior to the match - and during - probably better than Kerrigan was.

Far better. Starting with not announcing that he was even in the squad
until he'd been in Pak for a week. But then he's been on the radar for
7 years, having dismissed both Cook and Stokes in the nets when he was
11 and being identified by Warne as a future star when he was 13. Yes,
we know that not every child prodigy makes it to the big time, but
England have been doing their best to help him do so.

Cheers,

Mike

On Saturday, 17 December 2022 at 12:42:03 UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> But then he's been on the radar for
> 7 years, having dismissed both Cook and Stokes in the nets when he was
> 11 and being identified by Warne as a future star when he was 13.

https://www.espncricinfo.com/video/when-an-11-year-old-rehan-ahmed-got-stokes-in-the-nets-1299862

"He wasn't the happiest". He's probably happy now. There's a nice piece of Warne watching him bowl and asks Rehan "Have you had people asking you to change your pace, do this, do that.... well just ignore them".

> Yes,
> we know that not every child prodigy makes it to the big time, but
> England have been doing their best to help him do so.

Remember Mason Crane? He seems to have become solely at T20 bowler.

Richard

On Sat, 17 Dec 2022 05:24:33 -0800 (PST), Richard Dixon
<richsdixon1975@gmail.com> wrote:

>Remember Mason Crane? He seems to have become solely at T20 bowler.

I suspect this indicates Standard Excuse 5:

He was very badly treated by the selectors, who never gave him an
extended run in the side... RH

On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 8:55:21 PM UTC+11, anywh...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 8:35:50 AM UTC, max.it wrote:
> > Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed will become the youngest man to play Test
> > cricket for England after being handed a debut in the third Test
> > against Pakistan.
> And he has justified his selection because....RH

2-89 & 5-48 so 7-137 on debut suggests there could be some logic behind the pick...

On 12/19/2022 5:13 AM, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 8:55:21 PM UTC+11, anywh...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 8:35:50 AM UTC, max.it wrote:
>>> Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed will become the youngest man to play Test
>>> cricket for England after being handed a debut in the third Test
>>> against Pakistan.
>> And he has justified his selection because....RH
>
> 2-89 & 5-48 so 7-137 on debut suggests there could be some logic behind the pick...

Stokes, Root and Baz thought highly of Rehan's bowling, which is why
they picked him for this test.

They also stated that they would have selected Rehan for Karachi test
even if England was tied 1-1 in the series.

There is NO point in justifying his selection to a racist lunaticfuck
Robert Henderson who DOESN'T WANT "any POC" in England cricket team.

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 05:13:26 -0800 (PST), Hamish Laws
<hamish.laws@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 8:55:21 PM UTC+11, anywh...@gmail.com wrote:
>> On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 8:35:50 AM UTC, max.it wrote:
>> > Leg-spinner Rehan Ahmed will become the youngest man to play Test
>> > cricket for England after being handed a debut in the third Test
>> > against Pakistan.
>> And he has justified his selection because....RH
>
>2-89 & 5-48 so 7-137 on debut suggests there could be some logic behind the pick...

Youngest English bowler ever to take a 5-fer, breaking Bill Voce's
record by over 2 years. The Pakistan supporter will no doubt be
extremely pleased; presumably he has already posted his normal "Ahmed
shows his mettle..." greeting for English slow bowlers.

Cheers,

Mike

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 13:52:59 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
wrote:

>>2-89 & 5-48 so 7-137 on debut suggests there could be some logic behind the pick...
>
>Youngest English bowler ever to take a 5-fer, breaking Bill Voce's
>record by over 2 years.

He's obviously also the youngest Englishman to play a Test abroad.
Three other England players made Test appearances abroad before they
were 20. One of them was also once England's youngest Test player; the
other two will take you a lot of guessing.

Cheers,

Mike

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 14:10:42 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
wrote:

>On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 13:52:59 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
>wrote:
>
>
>>>2-89 & 5-48 so 7-137 on debut suggests there could be some logic behind the pick...
>>
>>Youngest English bowler ever to take a 5-fer, breaking Bill Voce's
>>record by over 2 years.
>
>He's obviously also the youngest Englishman to play a Test abroad.
>Three other England players made Test appearances abroad before they
>were 20. One of them was also once England's youngest Test player; the
>other two will take you a lot of guessing.

Damn, got that wrong: it's four others.

Cheers,

Mike

On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 21:34:25 +0000, David North
<nospam@lane-farm.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:

>Surprisingly, when Brian Close played 3 Tests in 1976, no-one in the
>England team was born after his 1949 debut.

I'm also surprised to discover that Close only played one Test away,
in 1950.

Cheers,

Mike

On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 05:33:43 -0800 (PST), Robbert ter Hart
<rterhart@gmail.com> wrote:

>Call me old-fashioned, but I always thought that legspinners, at 18, are not up to Test standard. No matter how good they are, you need more time to mature. Even Warne was 22 when he made his debut.
>
>I guess we'll see over the weekend.

Without wishing to make extravagant claims, I don't see evidence from
this one game that he is not up to Test standard. His first 5-over
spell was as rubbishy as any previous English leggie on debut, but the
rest of his bowling was entirely acceptable.

I don't see how he gets to play in England, except possibly at Old
Trafford, for quite some time. On away pitches where we play two
spinners, though, there's no-one *obviously* better as the second
spinner. (That's not to say there isn't someone better, but it's not
as though there's a long queue of highly plausible candidates.)

But if he's acceptable at this age, he could quite possibly become
very good indeed.

Cheers,

Mike

On 12/19/2022 7:59 AM, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 05:33:43 -0800 (PST), Robbert ter Hart
> <rterhart@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Call me old-fashioned, but I always thought that legspinners, at 18, are not up to Test standard. No matter how good they are, you need more time to mature. Even Warne was 22 when he made his debut.
>>
>> I guess we'll see over the weekend.
>
> Without wishing to make extravagant claims, I don't see evidence from
> this one game that he is not up to Test standard. His first 5-over
> spell was as rubbishy as any previous English leggie on debut, but the
> rest of his bowling was entirely acceptable.
>
> I don't see how he gets to play in England, except possibly at Old
> Trafford, for quite some time. On away pitches where we play two
> spinners, though, there's no-one *obviously* better as the second
> spinner. (That's not to say there isn't someone better, but it's not
> as though there's a long queue of highly plausible candidates.)
>
> But if he's acceptable at this age, he could quite possibly become
> very good indeed.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike

Could quite possibly become very good BUT I prefer to wait and see how
he performs in a "few tests against various teams" in different
conditions and pitches though before judging him.

Op maandag 19 december 2022 om 16:59:04 UTC+1 schreef Mike Holmans:
> On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 05:33:43 -0800 (PST), Robbert ter Hart
> <rter...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Call me old-fashioned, but I always thought that legspinners, at 18, are not up to Test standard. No matter how good they are, you need more time to mature. Even Warne was 22 when he made his debut.
> >
> >I guess we'll see over the weekend.
>
> Without wishing to make extravagant claims, I don't see evidence from
> this one game that he is not up to Test standard. His first 5-over
> spell was as rubbishy as any previous English leggie on debut, but the
> rest of his bowling was entirely acceptable.

Yes, well, that should teach me to keep my mouth shut. :-)

RtH
>
> I don't see how he gets to play in England, except possibly at Old
> Trafford, for quite some time. On away pitches where we play two
> spinners, though, there's no-one *obviously* better as the second
> spinner. (That's not to say there isn't someone better, but it's not
> as though there's a long queue of highly plausible candidates.)
>
> But if he's acceptable at this age, he could quite possibly become
> very good indeed.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Mike

On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 3:59:04 PM UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 05:33:43 -0800 (PST), Robbert ter Hart
> <rter...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Call me old-fashioned, but I always thought that legspinners, at 18, are not up to Test standard. No matter how good they are, you need more time to mature. Even Warne was 22 when he made his debut.
> >
> >I guess we'll see over the weekend.
>
> Without wishing to make extravagant claims, I don't see evidence from
> this one game that he is not up to Test standard. His first 5-over
> spell was as rubbishy as any previous English leggie on debut, but the
> rest of his bowling was entirely acceptable.
>

he got wkts with both good and bad balls, which is great for
any bowler.

> I don't see how he gets to play in England, except possibly at Old
> Trafford, for quite some time. On away pitches where we play two
> spinners, though, there's no-one *obviously* better as the second
> spinner. (That's not to say there isn't someone better, but it's not
> as though there's a long queue of highly plausible candidates.)
>

its going to be very interesting to see if they take him to india
next year. Whether they risk him against oz depends on the
pitches and the situation. But as long as he doesnt break his fingers
or have some terrible loss of confidence at leicester etc, i'd be tempted
to select him.

> But if he's acceptable at this age, he could quite possibly become
> very good indeed.
>

yes its best not to get too excited, eg hamid looked brilliant in india
6 yrs ago, but so far this new management seems to get it right,
compared to previous setups.

mike

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 08:39:24 -0800 (PST), Robbert ter Hart
<rterhart@gmail.com> wrote:

>Op maandag 19 december 2022 om 16:59:04 UTC+1 schreef Mike Holmans:
>> On Fri, 16 Dec 2022 05:33:43 -0800 (PST), Robbert ter Hart
>> <rter...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >Call me old-fashioned, but I always thought that legspinners, at 18, are not up to Test standard. No matter how good they are, you need more time to mature. Even Warne was 22 when he made his debut.
>> >
>> >I guess we'll see over the weekend.
>>
>> Without wishing to make extravagant claims, I don't see evidence from
>> this one game that he is not up to Test standard. His first 5-over
>> spell was as rubbishy as any previous English leggie on debut, but the
>> rest of his bowling was entirely acceptable.
>
>Yes, well, that should teach me to keep my mouth shut. :-)

He's now beaten Shahid Afridi's record of being the youngest
wrist-spinner with a Test 5-fer. The only other 18-year old to do it
was Laxman Sivaramakishnan, who took 18 English wickets in three
innings (in his 2nd and 3rd games) and hardly did anything again.

19-y-os are Jubair Hossain (Ban), Hirwani and Paul Adams. Rashid Khan
and Danish Kaneria achieved it when 20.

So he's certainly an outlier, even among outliers. Records are there
to be broken. Record-breakers don't necessarily do much else.

Cheers,

Mike

In message <7ur0qhh6r6n2k38vur91a5cdk92shf65q1@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
<spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 13:52:59 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
>wrote:
>
>
>>>2-89 & 5-48 so 7-137 on debut suggests there could be some logic
>>>behind the pick...
>>
>>Youngest English bowler ever to take a 5-fer, breaking Bill Voce's
>>record by over 2 years.
>
>He's obviously also the youngest Englishman to play a Test abroad.
>Three other England players made Test appearances abroad before they
>were 20. One of them was also once England's youngest Test player;

Jack Crawford.

> the
>other two will take you a lot of guessing.

I think I saw someone referring to Hameed, which seems to chime with my
own memory. The third isn't coming to mind.
--
John Hall "Do you have cornflakes in America?"
"Well, actually, they're American."
"So what brings you to Britain then if you have cornflakes already?"
Bill Bryson: "Notes from a Small Island"

On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 19:12:09 +0000, John Hall
<john_nospam@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <7ur0qhh6r6n2k38vur91a5cdk92shf65q1@4ax.com>, Mike Holmans
><spam@jackalope.uk> writes
>>On Mon, 19 Dec 2022 13:52:59 +0000, Mike Holmans <spam@jackalope.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>2-89 & 5-48 so 7-137 on debut suggests there could be some logic
>>>>behind the pick...
>>>
>>>Youngest English bowler ever to take a 5-fer, breaking Bill Voce's
>>>record by over 2 years.
>>
>>He's obviously also the youngest Englishman to play a Test abroad.
>>Three other England players made Test appearances abroad before they
>>were 20. One of them was also once England's youngest Test player;
>
>Jack Crawford.
>
>> the
>>other two will take you a lot of guessing.
>
>I think I saw someone referring to Hameed, which seems to chime with my
>own memory. The third isn't coming to mind.

Ian Peebles.

Cheers,

Mike

On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 13:53:03 UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:

> Youngest English bowler ever to take a 5-fer, breaking Bill Voce's
> record by over 2 years. The Pakistan supporter will no doubt be
> extremely pleased; presumably he has already posted his normal "Ahmed
> shows his mettle..." greeting for English slow bowlers.

Oddly enough, I can't seem to find it.

Days like these are always a favourite - a youngster breaking into a side whether it's County or Test will always thrill. It goes without saying he's going to go around the ground a few times given how many bad balls he bowls but it's the current environment set up by McStokes that won't allow him to dwell on that. Not sure how often he'll play for us at home though judging from recent years and our present predilection for part-time spinners as 2nd spinners.

It's interesting to see him in the field - he was already asking players to move around and if you think back to Panesar, he was having to have fields set for him in the early part of his career (I seem to recall to the chagrin of Vaughan). I laughed afterwards as he chewed gum in his Sky interview. He's a cocky so-and-so, isn't he...!

This was a lovely photo of his Dad after he'd taken his fifth wicket: https://media.gettyimages.com/id/1450290863/photo/pakistan-v-england-third-test-match-day-three.jpg?s=2048x2048&w=gi&k=20&c=yYuIZRD4_No1M9ytgS1sDuZMyCipO_eb1X3BqK_WRfk
Richard

On Monday, December 19, 2022 at 4:47:55 PM UTC-5, richsdi...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 13:53:03 UTC, Mike Holmans wrote:
>
> > Youngest English bowler ever to take a 5-fer, breaking Bill Voce's
> > record by over 2 years. The Pakistan supporter will no doubt be
> > extremely pleased; presumably he has already posted his normal "Ahmed
> > shows his mettle..." greeting for English slow bowlers.
> Oddly enough, I can't seem to find it.
>
> Days like these are always a favourite - a youngster breaking into a side whether it's County or Test will always thrill. It goes without saying he's going to go around the ground a few times given how many bad balls he bowls but it's the current environment set up by McStokes that won't allow him to dwell on that. Not sure how often he'll play for us at home though judging from recent years and our present predilection for part-time spinners as 2nd spinners.
>
> It's interesting to see him in the field - he was already asking players to move around and if you think back to Panesar, he was having to have fields set for him in the early part of his career (I seem to recall to the chagrin of Vaughan). I laughed afterwards as he chewed gum in his Sky interview. He's a cocky so-and-so, isn't he...!
>
> This was a lovely photo of his Dad after he'd taken his fifth wicket: https://media.gettyimages.com/id/1450290863/photo/pakistan-v-england-third-test-match-day-three.jpg?s=2048x2048&w=gi&k=20&c=yYuIZRD4_No1M9ytgS1sDuZMyCipO_eb1X3BqK_WRfk=
>
> Richard

Waquar Younis?

On Monday, 19 December 2022 at 22:00:08 UTC, drye...@gmail.com wrote:

> Waquar Younis?

There's a resemblance.

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 2:12:53 AM UTC+10, FBInCIAnNSATerroristSlayer wrote:
> Could quite possibly become very good BUT I prefer to wait and see how
> he performs in a "few tests against various teams" in different
> conditions and pitches though before judging him.

Drop Leach now. Rehan is going to be a far better bowler. Added bonus is he's a leggy, which in my admittedly biased opinion means he's automatically better.