Now second best selling vehicle in Australia

https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/

On 5/7/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>
> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/

Hilux still top of the pops! ;-)

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>
> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/

I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero stock.
Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are getting
close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.

When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got, which
was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor stock. It
arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.

If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>
> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero stock.
> Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are getting
> close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>
> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got, which
> was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor stock. It
> arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>
> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>
So would every other marque Darren - including Toyota! I do notice that
Nissan have floor stock and they aren't even in the running - on any
sales lists. But you've learnt the reasoning behind that - crap cars (or
utes) don't sell.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>
> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero stock.
> Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are getting
> close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>
> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got, which
> was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor stock. It
> arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>
> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>
>
Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't got the
vehicles.
IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model y has a
base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously hear that
inflation is high and interest rates are also high and a lot of people
are supposedly struggling financially but many are still buying
expensive vehicles which seems odd.
People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they make
economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time they are about
10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money than
sense.

Daryl

On 5/7/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>
>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero
>> stock. Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are
>> getting close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>>
>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
>> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
>> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got,
>> which was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor
>> stock. It arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>>
>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>>
>>
> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't got the
> vehicles.
> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model y has a
> base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously hear that
> inflation is high and interest rates are also high and a lot of people
> are supposedly struggling financially but many are still buying
> expensive vehicles which seems odd.
> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they make
> economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time they are about
> 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money than
> sense.
>
Omigod! No wonder your business acumen, or the lack thereof, caused your
business to fail. Most of the Teslas being sold would be on novated
leases or the like. That's the *smart way* to buy a car.

https://cars.smartleasing.com.au/electric-vehicles-novated-lease

My accountant has 2 Teslas on novated leases.

If you can charge your Tesla at home on solar derived electricity, the
savings can be greater.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 5/07/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>>
>>
> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't got the
> vehicles.

Indeed.

I did look at a Hilux some months back when the wait for the Ranger was
dragging out and I was starting to get sick of it. Melton Toyota had a
few in stock including a Rogue which would have been the Wildtrak
equivalent, but after looking at what you got for the money, or to be
more precise, what you *didn't* get, I preferred to wait for the Ranger.

In the end I'm glad I did as the thing gets more impressive every day.

> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model y has a
> base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously hear that
> inflation is high and interest rates are also high and a lot of people
> are supposedly struggling financially but many are still buying
> expensive vehicles which seems odd.

Yeah, there's stacks of them around now and I'm fucked if I know why.
The styling of them is horrible, particularly the interior, and the
build quality is appalling.

> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they make
> economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time they are about
> 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money than
> sense.

The wife and I spent most of Saturday in Ballarat on a shopping and junk
hunting spree, and everywhere we went was busy. I understand that things
are tough for some people, but you'd never know it when you're out and
about.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 5/07/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>
> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero stock.
> Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are getting
> close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>
> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got, which
> was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor stock. It
> arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>
> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>
>

**Exactly the same thing can be said for many other cars. Toyota
Landcruisers and RVA4 hybrids cannot be ordered. My local pharmacist
will have waited 2 years, this coming August, for his Toyota Corolla
Hybrid. Almost all new cars now have very long wait times. Ford Rangers
are not unique in that sense.

--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:45:10 +1000, Noddy wrote:

> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>
>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-
y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>
> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero stock.
> Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are getting
> close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.

So are Rangers.
Anyhoo, it seems that Ford have the biggest order to delivery lag of all
manufacturers. Here's hoping that their build quality is at the same
competence level as their distribution model.

> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got, which
> was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor stock. It
> arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.

Ummmm. That doesn't make sense Fraudster. Why would the dealer order one
as a demo, out of 350, and then immediately flog it? (Sniff sniff)
> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.

Hang about.
The relevant stats in that piece are about 'sales', *not* deliveries. So
wouldn't the sale date be when the buyer signed the contract?

alvey

On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 21:40:22 +1000, Daryl wrote:

>>
> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't got the
> vehicles.
> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model y has a
> base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously hear that
> inflation is high and interest rates are also high and a lot of people
> are supposedly struggling financially but many are still buying
> expensive vehicles which seems odd.

There's "odd", and then there's "non-existent". Like your grasp of basic
economics frinstance...

alvey
Noting that shedloads of DCUs are > $70k.

On 6/07/2023 5:25 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 5/07/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:

>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>>
>>
>
> **Exactly the same thing can be said for many other cars.

For some, certainly.
> Toyota Landcruisers and RVA4 hybrids cannot be ordered. My local
pharmacist
> will have waited 2 years, this coming August, for his Toyota Corolla
> Hybrid. Almost all new cars now have very long wait times.

It varies depending on make and model. For example, Toyota Hilux has a
wait time of around 6 months for some variants, with dealers having
stock of a few models.

> Ford Rangers are not unique in that sense.

Well, yeah, that are in that they're number 3 on the list *despite* a
lead time of around 18 months. No other vehicle is doing that, and if
stock *was* available they'd be topping the list with enough daylight
between themselves and number 2 for the Ukranian Army to launch a full
scale counter attack through the gap.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 5/7/2023 10:29 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 5/07/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>
>>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>>>
>>>
>> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't got the
>> vehicles.
>
> Indeed.
>
> I did look at a Hilux some months back when the wait for the Ranger was
> dragging out and I was starting to get sick of it. Melton Toyota had a
> few in stock including a Rogue which would have been the Wildtrak
> equivalent, but after looking at what you got for the money, or to be
> more precise, what you *didn't* get, I preferred to wait for the Ranger.
>
> In the end I'm glad I did as the thing gets more impressive every day.
>
>> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model y has
>> a base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously hear that
>> inflation is high and interest rates are also high and a lot of people
>> are supposedly struggling financially but many are still buying
>> expensive vehicles which seems odd.
>
> Yeah, there's stacks of them around now and I'm fucked if I know why.
> The styling of them is horrible, particularly the interior, and the
> build quality is appalling.

I've not looked at the interior of a Model Y but the exterior is hideous
especially from the rear.
>
>> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they make
>> economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time they are
>> about 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money
>> than sense.
>
> The wife and I spent most of Saturday in Ballarat on a shopping and junk
> hunting spree, and everywhere we went was busy. I understand that things
> are tough for some people, but you'd never know it when you're out and
> about.
>

I've no doubt that many are struggling but the majority seem to be doing OK.

--
Daryl

On 5/07/2023 10:23 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 5/7/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>>
>>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero
>>> stock. Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are
>>> getting close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>>>
>>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
>>> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
>>> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got,
>>> which was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor
>>> stock. It arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>>>
>>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>>>
>>>
>> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't got the
>> vehicles.
>> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model y has
>> a base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously hear that
>> inflation is high and interest rates are also high and a lot of people
>> are supposedly struggling financially but many are still buying
>> expensive vehicles which seems odd.
>> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they make
>> economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time they are
>> about 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.

That depends a lot on how you use it, batteries can last a lot longer
than that. It depends on how you use them, running them right down,
and/or fast charging them all the time will reduce their life.

>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money
>> than sense.
>>
> Omigod! No wonder your business acumen, or the lack thereof, caused your
> business to fail.

Did it fail or did he just retire? You seem to be making assumptions there.

> Most of the Teslas being sold would be on novated leases or the like.

Another assumption unless you have data to back it up.

That's the *smart way* to buy a car.

That depends, firstly you need to have an employer willing to do it. You
can't just rock up to a dealer and buy a car on a novated lease.
Secondly the savings are dependent on a lot of things. For instance, FBT
is payable on the vehicle because, to the tax office, it's a company car
IE. a non cash benefit. The amount of FBT payable depends on the annual
mileage which you have to specify at the time of the lease. The more
kilometers per year, the less FBT, if it's just going to be a shopping
trolly around town, the savings don't really add up.

I got my 2004 Corolla Sportivo on a novated lease, and it did save me
money, the leasing company got it at a good price, it cost about a
quarter of my annual salary, and I specified about 16k Km/yr which was
easily achievable. A workmate specified something like 25k Km/yr, he was
driving from Sydney to Lightning Ridge once a month largely to keep to
his specified mileage. What he saved on FBT was largely eaten up in fuel
costs and depreciation.

It's not as easy as it looks, although electric cars do get a special deal.

> https://cars.smartleasing.com.au/electric-vehicles-novated-lease
>
> My accountant has 2 Teslas on novated leases.

If he can afford that, I hate to think what his charges are.

> If you can charge your Tesla at home on solar derived electricity, the
> savings can be greater.

If you are using your Tesla enough to make a novated lease worthwhile,
you'll need a 3 phase connection to your home and the idea of charging
it of home solar is ludicrous.

On 6/07/2023 6:41 am, alvey wrote:

> Hang about.
> The relevant stats in that piece are about 'sales', *not* deliveries. So
> wouldn't the sale date be when the buyer signed the contract?

AFAIK a sale is a sale when the money and the goods change hands.

On 5/07/2023 8:23 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 5/7/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
>> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>>
>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero
>>> stock. Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are
>>> getting close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>>>
>>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
>>> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
>>> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got,
>>> which was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor
>>> stock. It arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>>>
>>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>>>
>>>
>> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't got the
>> vehicles.
>> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model y has
>> a base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously hear that
>> inflation is high and interest rates are also high and a lot of people
>> are supposedly struggling financially but many are still buying
>> expensive vehicles which seems odd.
>> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they make
>> economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time they are
>> about 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money
>> than sense.
>>
> Omigod! No wonder your business acumen, or the lack thereof, caused your
> business to fail. Most of the Teslas being sold would be on novated
> leases or the like. That's the *smart way* to buy a car.
>

His business didn't fail but his business acumen certainly failed him.
Who the hell hinges their whole retirement on the value of *one*
contract that, if he had been paying attention to his industry even
slightly, was worthless loooooong before he lost it.

What a doofus.

> https://cars.smartleasing.com.au/electric-vehicles-novated-lease
>
> My accountant has 2 Teslas on novated leases.
>
> If you can charge your Tesla at home on solar derived electricity, the
> savings can be greater.
>

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On 6/07/2023 4:41 am, alvey wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:45:10 +1000, Noddy wrote:
>
>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-
> y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>
>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero stock.
>> Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are getting
>> close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>
> So are Rangers.
> Anyhoo, it seems that Ford have the biggest order to delivery lag of all
> manufacturers. Here's hoping that their build quality is at the same
> competence level as their distribution model.
>
>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
>> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
>> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got, which
>> was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor stock. It
>> arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>
> Ummmm. That doesn't make sense Fraudster. Why would the dealer order one
> as a demo, out of 350, and then immediately flog it? (Sniff sniff)
>

That's not how it works. "Demos" are simply floor stock that the dealer
plates at which point they become demo vehicles. They are counted as
"sold" and it's one of the ways dealers could boost their monthly sales
figures by plating a number of vehicles to meet or exceed a target and
get their sales bonus. They can be sold to retail at any time but there
is a restriction on the number of km's before they go from demo to used
status. (10,000km at one time but that might have changed) They are
*not* especially ordered. He has no idea what he is talking about as per
usual.

>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>
> Hang about.
> The relevant stats in that piece are about 'sales', *not* deliveries. So
> wouldn't the sale date be when the buyer signed the contract?
>

--
In thread "May need to buy petrol soon" Sept 23 2021 11:15:59am
Keithr0 wrote: "He made the assertion either he proves it or he is a
proven liar."

On Sept 23 2021 3:16:29pm Keithr0 wrote:
"He asserts that the claim is true, so, if it is unproven, he is lying."

On Thu, 06 Jul 2023 09:13:07 +1000, Keithr0 wrote:

> On 6/07/2023 6:41 am, alvey wrote:
>
>> Hang about.
>> The relevant stats in that piece are about 'sales', *not* deliveries.
>> So wouldn't the sale date be when the buyer signed the contract?
>
> AFAIK a sale is a sale when the money and the goods change hands.

Dunno.
But if what you say is so, why did dealers used to be so keen to get you
to sign before the end of the month? (ie weeks before delivery)

alvey

On 6/07/2023 9:11 am, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 5/07/2023 10:23 pm, Xeno wrote:

>>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money
>>> than sense.
>>>
>> Omigod! No wonder your business acumen, or the lack thereof, caused
>> your business to fail.
>
> Did it fail or did he just retire? You seem to be making assumptions there.

Story of his miserable existence. As usual, he has no idea what he's
talking about and makes shit up to suit himself. Daryl had quite a
successful business as a government contractor, but the government woke
up one morning and decided to terminate all contracts putting Daryl and
others like him out of business immediately.

It was no fault of anyone other than the Victorian State Government
making a fucking mess, but if you listen to Clasener it was all Daryl's
fault. Of course, here in the real world where Clasener has zero
personal business experience of his own *nor* had any connection to
either Daryl's business or the Victorian Government you'd have to wonder
how he would have any fucking idea :)

Like anything else his relevance deprivation forces him to waffle on
about here, he speaks with authority on subjects he has no personal
experience with whatsoever .

>> Most of the Teslas being sold would be on novated leases or the like.
>
> Another assumption unless you have data to back it up.

Notice a pattern here?

> That depends, firstly you need to have an employer willing to do it. You
> can't just rock up to a dealer and buy a car on a novated lease.
> Secondly the savings are dependent on a lot of things. For instance, FBT
> is payable on the vehicle because, to the tax office, it's a company car
> IE. a non cash benefit. The amount of FBT payable depends on the annual
> mileage which you have to specify at the time of the lease. The more
> kilometers per year, the less FBT, if it's just going to be a shopping
> trolly around town, the savings don't really add up.
>
> I got my 2004 Corolla Sportivo on a novated lease, and it did save me
> money, the leasing company got it at a good price, it cost about a
> quarter of my annual salary, and I specified about 16k Km/yr which was
> easily achievable. A workmate specified something like 25k Km/yr, he was
> driving from Sydney to Lightning Ridge once a month largely to keep to
> his specified mileage. What he saved on FBT was largely eaten up in fuel
> costs and depreciation.
>
> It's not as easy as it looks, although electric cars do get a special deal.

They do at the moment. Still not enough to make me want to own one :)

As for novated leasing, the benefits of it depend entirely on the
individual and their usage habits. It can mean savings for some, but not
everyone is in the same boat and a lot of decisions that can impact the
individual greatly are out of their control. The wife and I have looked
at it in the past but not opted to use it because the "savings" weren't
significant enough in our case to make it worthwhile. Especially when
you factor in the residual at the end of the lease if you choose to keep
the car.

The Ranger we bought recently was paid for with cash, and so have the
last 5 or so new cars we've had because that was the best option at the
time. But that may change. We're thinking of updating the Santa Fe in
the next 12 months and will look at hybrid options, and if a Novated
lease works out to be a good deal then that's the way we'll go.
>> https://cars.smartleasing.com.au/electric-vehicles-novated-lease
>>
>> My accountant has 2 Teslas on novated leases.
>
> If he can afford that, I hate to think what his charges are.

Assuming that he's a real person. Most of the "friends" he talks about
exist only in his mind :)

>> If you can charge your Tesla at home on solar derived electricity, the
>> savings can be greater.
>
> If you are using your Tesla enough to make a novated lease worthwhile,
> you'll need a 3 phase connection to your home and the idea of charging
> it of home solar is ludicrous.

Especially given that the time of day where most people are likely to
have them plugged in being charged at home is precisely when the sun has
set and the solar array is doing nothing.

As I said, he waffles on

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 6/07/2023 9:13 am, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 6/07/2023 6:41 am, alvey wrote:
>
>> Hang about.
>> The relevant stats in that piece are about 'sales', *not* deliveries. So
>> wouldn't the sale date be when the buyer signed the contract?
>
> AFAIK a sale is a sale when the money and the goods change hands.

New car sales figures are based on new vehicle registrations.

Car dealers don't submit sales data government departments, and it would
be impossible for any statistical analysis to be based on private
agreements between seller and buyer. Instead, new car registrations are
used as the information is easily shared between departments, and given
that new cars are only registered once the dealer takes delivery of the
car and either hands it over to the client or puts it on the road as a
"demo" it is the only really accurate means of compiling the numbers.

The idea that sales figures are based on buyers signing contracts is as
ludicrous as it is completely clueless :)

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 6/7/2023 9:11 am, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 5/07/2023 10:23 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 5/7/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>>>
>>>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero
>>>> stock. Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are
>>>> getting close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
>>>> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
>>>> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got,
>>>> which was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor
>>>> stock. It arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>>>>
>>>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't got
>>> the vehicles.
>>> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model y
>>> has a base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously hear
>>> that inflation is high and interest rates are also high and a lot of
>>> people are supposedly struggling financially but many are still
>>> buying expensive vehicles which seems odd.
>>> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they make
>>> economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time they are
>>> about 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
>
> That depends a lot on how you use it, batteries can last a lot longer
> than that. It depends on how you use them, running them right down,
> and/or fast charging them all the time will reduce their life.

Charging over 80% degrades battery life too.
>
>>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money
>>> than sense.
>>>
>> Omigod! No wonder your business acumen, or the lack thereof, caused
>> your business to fail.
>
> Did it fail or did he just retire? You seem to be making assumptions there.

It failed. He lost the only major client and the dribs and drabs weren't
enough to survive on. All based on his own words.
>
>> Most of the Teslas being sold would be on novated leases or the like.
>
> Another assumption unless you have data to back it up.
>
> That's the *smart way* to buy a car.
>
> That depends, firstly you need to have an employer willing to do it. You
> can't just rock up to a dealer and buy a car on a novated lease.
> Secondly the savings are dependent on a lot of things. For instance, FBT
> is payable on the vehicle because, to the tax office, it's a company car
> IE. a non cash benefit. The amount of FBT payable depends on the annual
> mileage which you have to specify at the time of the lease. The more
> kilometers per year, the less FBT, if it's just going to be a shopping
> trolly around town, the savings don't really add up.
>
> I got my 2004 Corolla Sportivo on a novated lease, and it did save me
> money, the leasing company got it at a good price, it cost about a
> quarter of my annual salary, and I specified about 16k Km/yr which was
> easily achievable. A workmate specified something like 25k Km/yr, he was
> driving from Sydney to Lightning Ridge once a month largely to keep to
> his specified mileage. What he saved on FBT was largely eaten up in fuel
> costs and depreciation.
>
> It's not as easy as it looks, although electric cars do get a special deal.

Yep, that was part of the point I was making.
>
>> https://cars.smartleasing.com.au/electric-vehicles-novated-lease
>>
>> My accountant has 2 Teslas on novated leases.
>
> If he can afford that, I hate to think what his charges are.

Sorry, I meant "lawyer". His business has one, the other is in his
daughter's name - but she is a partner in the business so all connected
somehow. And, yes, he isn't cheap.
>
>> If you can charge your Tesla at home on solar derived electricity, the
>> savings can be greater.
>
> If you are using your Tesla enough to make a novated lease worthwhile,
> you'll need a 3 phase connection to your home and the idea of charging
> it of home solar is ludicrous.

He can charge it during the day since his home office is where he
operates from. Single phase is worthwhile if you don't travel far each
day. How much distance travelled is worthwhile for a novated lease, I
don't know. Never looked into it since I retired. And that was 20+ years
ago.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/7/2023 11:09 am, Noddy wrote:
> On 6/07/2023 9:11 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 5/07/2023 10:23 pm, Xeno wrote:
>
>>>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money
>>>> than sense.
>>>>
>>> Omigod! No wonder your business acumen, or the lack thereof, caused
>>> your business to fail.
>>
>> Did it fail or did he just retire? You seem to be making assumptions
>> there.
>
> Story of his miserable existence. As usual, he has no idea what he's
> talking about and makes shit up to suit himself. Daryl had quite a
> successful business as a government contractor, but the government woke
> up one morning and decided to terminate all contracts putting Daryl and
> others like him out of business immediately.

All the eggs in one basket with no backup strategy.
>
> It was no fault of anyone other than the Victorian State Government
> making a fucking mess, but if you listen to Clasener it was all Daryl's
> fault. Of course, here in the real world where Clasener has zero

Of course it was. His *entire business* depended upon a single client.
That's a poor strategy to operate under in anyone's book.

> personal business experience of his own *nor* had any connection to
> either Daryl's business or the Victorian Government you'd have to wonder
> how he would have any fucking idea :)
>
> Like anything else his relevance deprivation forces him to waffle on
> about here, he speaks with authority on subjects he has no personal
> experience with whatsoever .

Like your *irrelevance* to the motor trade Darren?
>
>>> Most of the Teslas being sold would be on novated leases or the like.
>>
>> Another assumption unless you have data to back it up.
>
> Notice a pattern here?

All the people I know who have Teslas have them on lease arrangements.
>
>> That depends, firstly you need to have an employer willing to do it.
>> You can't just rock up to a dealer and buy a car on a novated lease.
>> Secondly the savings are dependent on a lot of things. For instance,
>> FBT is payable on the vehicle because, to the tax office, it's a
>> company car IE. a non cash benefit. The amount of FBT payable depends
>> on the annual mileage which you have to specify at the time of the
>> lease. The more kilometers per year, the less FBT, if it's just going
>> to be a shopping trolly around town, the savings don't really add up.
>>
>> I got my 2004 Corolla Sportivo on a novated lease, and it did save me
>> money, the leasing company got it at a good price, it cost about a
>> quarter of my annual salary, and I specified about 16k Km/yr which was
>> easily achievable. A workmate specified something like 25k Km/yr, he
>> was driving from Sydney to Lightning Ridge once a month largely to
>> keep to his specified mileage. What he saved on FBT was largely eaten
>> up in fuel costs and depreciation.
>>
>> It's not as easy as it looks, although electric cars do get a special
>> deal.
>
> They do at the moment. Still not enough to make me want to own one :)
>
> As for novated leasing, the benefits of it depend entirely on the
> individual and their usage habits. It can mean savings for some, but not
> everyone is in the same boat and a lot of decisions that can impact the
> individual greatly are out of their control. The wife and I have looked
> at it in the past but not opted to use it because the "savings" weren't
> significant enough in our case to make it worthwhile. Especially when
> you factor in the residual at the end of the lease if you choose to keep
> the car.
>
> The Ranger we bought recently was paid for with cash, and so have the
> last 5 or so new cars we've had because that was the best option at the
> time. But that may change. We're thinking of updating the Santa Fe in
> the next 12 months and will look at hybrid options, and if a Novated
> lease works out to be a good deal then that's the way we'll go.
>>> https://cars.smartleasing.com.au/electric-vehicles-novated-lease
>>>
>>> My accountant has 2 Teslas on novated leases.
>>
>> If he can afford that, I hate to think what his charges are.
>
> Assuming that he's a real person. Most of the "friends" he talks about
> exist only in his mind :)

Definitely real Darren.
>
>>> If you can charge your Tesla at home on solar derived electricity,
>>> the savings can be greater.
>>
>> If you are using your Tesla enough to make a novated lease worthwhile,
>> you'll need a 3 phase connection to your home and the idea of charging
>> it of home solar is ludicrous.
>
> Especially given that the time of day where most people are likely to
> have them plugged in being charged at home is precisely when the sun has
> set and the solar array is doing nothing.
>
> As I said, he waffles on
>
Home office Darren. Plugged in *all day long*.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/7/2023 10:02 am, Clocky wrote:
> On 5/07/2023 8:23 pm, Xeno wrote:
>> On 5/7/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>>>
>>>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero
>>>> stock. Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are
>>>> getting close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>>>>
>>>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
>>>> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
>>>> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got,
>>>> which was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor
>>>> stock. It arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>>>>
>>>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't got
>>> the vehicles.
>>> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model y
>>> has a base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously hear
>>> that inflation is high and interest rates are also high and a lot of
>>> people are supposedly struggling financially but many are still
>>> buying expensive vehicles which seems odd.
>>> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they make
>>> economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time they are
>>> about 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
>>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money
>>> than sense.
>>>
>> Omigod! No wonder your business acumen, or the lack thereof, caused
>> your business to fail. Most of the Teslas being sold would be on
>> novated leases or the like. That's the *smart way* to buy a car.
>>
>
> His business didn't fail but his business acumen certainly failed him.
> Who the hell hinges their whole retirement on the value of *one*
> contract that, if he had been paying attention to his industry even
> slightly, was worthless loooooong before he lost it.
>
> What a doofus.
>
If you have a business that relies solely on one contract, and that
contract goes away, your business *fails*.
>
>> https://cars.smartleasing.com.au/electric-vehicles-novated-lease
>>
>> My accountant has 2 Teslas on novated leases.
>>
>> If you can charge your Tesla at home on solar derived electricity, the
>> savings can be greater.
>>
>
>

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/7/2023 6:41 am, alvey wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Jul 2023 17:45:10 +1000, Noddy wrote:
>
>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-
> y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>
>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero stock.
>> Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are getting
>> close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>
> So are Rangers.
> Anyhoo, it seems that Ford have the biggest order to delivery lag of all
> manufacturers. Here's hoping that their build quality is at the same
> competence level as their distribution model.
>
>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
>> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
>> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got, which
>> was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor stock. It
>> arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>
> Ummmm. That doesn't make sense Fraudster. Why would the dealer order one
> as a demo, out of 350, and then immediately flog it? (Sniff sniff)
>
>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>
> Hang about.
> The relevant stats in that piece are about 'sales', *not* deliveries. So
> wouldn't the sale date be when the buyer signed the contract?
>
>
> alvey
>
Stats, guaranteed to bamboozle a person of low intellect such as Darren.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 6/7/2023 10:18 am, alvey wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Jul 2023 09:13:07 +1000, Keithr0 wrote:
>
>> On 6/07/2023 6:41 am, alvey wrote:
>>
>>> Hang about.
>>> The relevant stats in that piece are about 'sales', *not* deliveries.
>>> So wouldn't the sale date be when the buyer signed the contract?
>>
>> AFAIK a sale is a sale when the money and the goods change hands.
>
> Dunno.
> But if what you say is so, why did dealers used to be so keen to get you
> to sign before the end of the month? (ie weeks before delivery)
>
>
>
> alvey

A vehicle is deemed sold when a contract is signed and a deposit paid.
That's because most vehicles these days are only built upon a sale. You
order, you specify trim and options, the car is built. Then you wait.
Floor stock, inc. demos, are a different arrangement.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 5/07/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>
>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>
>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero
>> stock. Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times are
>> getting close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>>
>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like 350
>> allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all but one of
>> them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold car they got,
>> which was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the dealer as floor
>> stock. It arrived on Friday night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>>
>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably different.
>>
>>
> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't got the
> vehicles.
> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model y has a
> base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously hear that
> inflation is high and interest rates are also high and a lot of people
> are supposedly struggling financially but many are still buying
> expensive vehicles which seems odd.
> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they make
> economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time they are about
> 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money than
> sense.

**Here is the experience I read today, from a Canadian Tesla owner:

--
I am starting to hit the point of significant repairs. My car is a 2015
Tesla Model S 85P and now has over 235,000 km (146,000 miles) on it. In
the last year I have had just over $10,000 of repairs on it which is
about equivalent to my gas savings.

Tesla’s pricing on repairs has also moved from what used to seem
reasonable to a level that feels more like gouging. I had some of the
repair work that did not need Tesla’s expertise done at other shops -
typically for about half the price.

Here is a summary of some of my repairs and expenses in the last year:

3-way coolant valve
steering shaft link
4-way coolant valve
headlight
radar sensor
rear brakes and rotors and rear parking brake calipers
6 different front and rear suspension components and alignment
Back-up camera
drive unit seals and half-shafts (only partially covered by warrantee)
2 rear tires with premature wear due to failing suspension components
Parking sensor

I still love our two Teslas, but I hope that these repairs do not
continue at this pace!

Additional comments/clarification:

I live in a part of Canada that puts a lot of salt on the roads in the
winter - this is hard on all types of cars in this area. The body looks
great compared to most cars of a similar age.

My battery degradation is right in line with all of the charts that show
that I will still have about 70% of my battery capacity if I keep the
car until 500K km.
--

Make of that what you will.

--
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