On 7/07/2023 3:13 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 2:56 pm, Keithr0 wrote:

>> Of course there are edge cases, but, by and large, cars with over 300K
>> on the clock are worthless no matter where they came from.
>
> **Well, yeah, but a Nissan Prairie? WTF?

You could say the same about anything really. Someone obviously thought
it was worth buying.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 7/7/2023 2:37 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 2:29 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 7/07/2023 10:05 am, Daryl wrote:
>>> On 7/7/2023 6:51 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 6/07/2023 10:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 6/7/2023 12:25 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 5/07/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is zero
>>>>>>>> stock. Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait times
>>>>>>>> are getting close to 18 months which is absolutely ridiculous.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like
>>>>>>>> 350 allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all
>>>>>>>> but one of them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold
>>>>>>>> car they got, which was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the
>>>>>>>> dealer as floor stock. It arrived on Friday night and was sold
>>>>>>>> by 9am the next morning.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably
>>>>>>>> different.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't
>>>>>>> got the vehicles.
>>>>>>> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model
>>>>>>> y has a base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously
>>>>>>> hear that inflation is high and interest rates are also high and
>>>>>>> a lot of people are supposedly struggling financially but many
>>>>>>> are still buying expensive vehicles which seems odd.
>>>>>>> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they make
>>>>>>> economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time they
>>>>>>> are about 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
>>>>>>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more
>>>>>>> money than sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Here is the experience I read today, from a Canadian Tesla owner:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> I am starting to hit the point of significant repairs. My car is a
>>>>>> 2015 Tesla Model S 85P and now has over 235,000 km (146,000 miles)
>>>>>> on it. In the last year I have had just over $10,000 of repairs on
>>>>>> it which is about equivalent to my gas savings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tesla’s pricing on repairs has also moved from what used to seem
>>>>>> reasonable to a level that feels more like gouging. I had some of
>>>>>> the repair work that did not need Tesla’s expertise done at other
>>>>>> shops - typically for about half the price.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is a summary of some of my repairs and expenses in the last
>>>>>> year:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>      3-way coolant valve
>>>>>>      steering shaft link
>>>>>>      4-way coolant valve
>>>>>>      headlight
>>>>>>      radar sensor
>>>>>>      rear brakes and rotors and rear parking brake calipers
>>>>>>      6 different front and rear suspension components and alignment
>>>>>>      Back-up camera
>>>>>>      drive unit seals and half-shafts (only partially covered by
>>>>>> warrantee)
>>>>>>      2 rear tires with premature wear due to failing suspension
>>>>>> components
>>>>>>      Parking sensor
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I still love our two Teslas, but I hope that these repairs do not
>>>>>> continue at this pace!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Additional comments/clarification:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I live in a part of Canada that puts a lot of salt on the roads in
>>>>>> the winter - this is hard on all types of cars in this area. The
>>>>>> body looks great compared to most cars of a similar age.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My battery degradation is right in line with all of the charts
>>>>>> that show that I will still have about 70% of my battery capacity
>>>>>> if I keep the car until 500K km.
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Make of that what you will.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> Interesting to read a report from an actual owner who has done a
>>>>> lot of kms.
>>>>> His battery capacity at 500k kms is nothing more than a wild guess
>>>>> though.
>>>>
>>>> **Not really, though your assumption that the value of the car will
>>>> be zero after a specific time period certainly is. Based on the
>>>> owner's report, I'd say that the Tesla is no more, or less reliable
>>>> than any US or European vehicle. Still, a long way behind a typical
>>>> Japanese or Korean vehicle.
>>>>
>>> Depreciation isn't just about reliability and more so with an EV, the
>>> battery has a limited life, even if its treated perfectly it won't
>>> last forever so battery life expectancy does have a big effect on
>>> resale.
>>> Would you pay top dollar for a 10yr old EV?
>>> Buying any 10yr old EV comes with a huge risk of battery failure so
>>> that's why they depreciate much more than an ICE vehicle.
>>> Some people in the US are repairing EV batteries and that may
>>> eventually be common place but that's a long way off so for now at
>>> least 10yr old EV's will have a very low value.
>>>
>> Tesla reckon that their batteries are good for 200K miles (320K Km).
>> That may or may not be true, and would depend on how it had been
>> driven, but, if it is true, that is a life commensurate with that for
>> an IC engined car.
>
> **Well, certainly a Euro car, but not a Japanese one. A mate just sold
> his Nissan Prairie. 800,000km up. No major engine work. Ever. I was
> stunned that someone actually paid money for the thing. Ironically, I
> sold the in-law's Vectra, with 120,000km on the clock for less money.
>
How long any ICE lasts can vary significantly, there are many many older
MB diesels that have done in excess of one million miles.
Old Falcon and Holden taxis used to do huge kms if well maintained so
lasting a long time depends a lot on how they are treated, almost any
well maintained engine that is driven long distance can do high kms,
Japanese engines aren't special in that regard, I've seen many fail
without having done a lot of kms.

--
Daryl

On 7/7/2023 3:13 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 2:56 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 7/07/2023 2:37 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 7/07/2023 2:29 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 7/07/2023 10:05 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 7/7/2023 6:51 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/07/2023 10:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/7/2023 12:25 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is
>>>>>>>>>> zero stock. Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait
>>>>>>>>>> times are getting close to 18 months which is absolutely
>>>>>>>>>> ridiculous.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like
>>>>>>>>>> 350 allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all
>>>>>>>>>> but one of them had been sold months in advance. The one
>>>>>>>>>> unsold car they got, which was a blue XLT Dual cab, was
>>>>>>>>>> ordered by the dealer as floor stock. It arrived on Friday
>>>>>>>>>> night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably
>>>>>>>>>> different.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't
>>>>>>>>> got the vehicles.
>>>>>>>>> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla
>>>>>>>>> model y has a base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we
>>>>>>>>> continuously hear that inflation is high and interest rates are
>>>>>>>>> also high and a lot of people are supposedly struggling
>>>>>>>>> financially but many are still buying expensive vehicles which
>>>>>>>>> seems odd.
>>>>>>>>> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they
>>>>>>>>> make economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time
>>>>>>>>> they are about 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
>>>>>>>>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more
>>>>>>>>> money than sense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Here is the experience I read today, from a Canadian Tesla owner:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> I am starting to hit the point of significant repairs. My car is
>>>>>>>> a 2015 Tesla Model S 85P and now has over 235,000 km (146,000
>>>>>>>> miles) on it. In the last year I have had just over $10,000 of
>>>>>>>> repairs on it which is about equivalent to my gas savings.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tesla’s pricing on repairs has also moved from what used to seem
>>>>>>>> reasonable to a level that feels more like gouging. I had some
>>>>>>>> of the repair work that did not need Tesla’s expertise done at
>>>>>>>> other shops - typically for about half the price.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here is a summary of some of my repairs and expenses in the last
>>>>>>>> year:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      3-way coolant valve
>>>>>>>>      steering shaft link
>>>>>>>>      4-way coolant valve
>>>>>>>>      headlight
>>>>>>>>      radar sensor
>>>>>>>>      rear brakes and rotors and rear parking brake calipers
>>>>>>>>      6 different front and rear suspension components and alignment
>>>>>>>>      Back-up camera
>>>>>>>>      drive unit seals and half-shafts (only partially covered by
>>>>>>>> warrantee)
>>>>>>>>      2 rear tires with premature wear due to failing suspension
>>>>>>>> components
>>>>>>>>      Parking sensor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I still love our two Teslas, but I hope that these repairs do
>>>>>>>> not continue at this pace!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Additional comments/clarification:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I live in a part of Canada that puts a lot of salt on the roads
>>>>>>>> in the winter - this is hard on all types of cars in this area.
>>>>>>>> The body looks great compared to most cars of a similar age.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My battery degradation is right in line with all of the charts
>>>>>>>> that show that I will still have about 70% of my battery
>>>>>>>> capacity if I keep the car until 500K km.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Make of that what you will.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting to read a report from an actual owner who has done a
>>>>>>> lot of kms.
>>>>>>> His battery capacity at 500k kms is nothing more than a wild
>>>>>>> guess though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Not really, though your assumption that the value of the car
>>>>>> will be zero after a specific time period certainly is. Based on
>>>>>> the owner's report, I'd say that the Tesla is no more, or less
>>>>>> reliable than any US or European vehicle. Still, a long way behind
>>>>>> a typical Japanese or Korean vehicle.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Depreciation isn't just about reliability and more so with an EV,
>>>>> the battery has a limited life, even if its treated perfectly it
>>>>> won't last forever so battery life expectancy does have a big
>>>>> effect on resale.
>>>>> Would you pay top dollar for a 10yr old EV?
>>>>> Buying any 10yr old EV comes with a huge risk of battery failure so
>>>>> that's why they depreciate much more than an ICE vehicle.
>>>>> Some people in the US are repairing EV batteries and that may
>>>>> eventually be common place but that's a long way off so for now at
>>>>> least 10yr old EV's will have a very low value.
>>>>>
>>>> Tesla reckon that their batteries are good for 200K miles (320K Km).
>>>> That may or may not be true, and would depend on how it had been
>>>> driven, but, if it is true, that is a life commensurate with that
>>>> for an IC engined car.
>>>
>>> **Well, certainly a Euro car, but not a Japanese one. A mate just
>>> sold his Nissan Prairie. 800,000km up. No major engine work. Ever. I
>>> was stunned that someone actually paid money for the thing.
>>> Ironically, I sold the in-law's Vectra, with 120,000km on the clock
>>> for less money.
>>>
>> Of course there are edge cases, but, by and large, cars with over 300K
>> on the clock are worthless no matter where they came from.
>
> **Well, yeah, but a Nissan Prairie? WTF?
>
My guess is that it did a lot of hwy kms commuting.
Bloke I used to work with a Ford had been conscripted in the Vietnam
era, he was from Melb but was posted to Bris area, he hated being
separated from his family all the time so at least twice a month he
would finish work on a Friday afternoon and drive to Melb then drive
back on Sunday afternoon so his Datsun 180B clocked up rather a lot of
kms in the 2 yrs he was in the Army:-)

On 6/07/2023 5:17 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 6/07/2023 9:09 am, Noddy wrote:
>> On 6/07/2023 9:11 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 5/07/2023 10:23 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>>>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more money
>>>>> than sense.
>>>>>
>>>> Omigod! No wonder your business acumen, or the lack thereof, caused
>>>> your business to fail.
>>>
>>> Did it fail or did he just retire? You seem to be making assumptions
>>> there.
>>
>> Story of his miserable existence. As usual, he has no idea what he's
>> talking about and makes shit up to suit himself. Daryl had quite a
>> successful business as a government contractor, but the government
>> woke up one morning and decided to terminate all contracts putting
>> Daryl and others like him out of business immediately.
>>
>> It was no fault of anyone other than the Victorian State Government
>> making a fucking mess
>
> Nope. 100% dozy Dazza's fault. The writing had been on the wall for a
> long time and he should have seen it coming as the private contractors
> absolutely *fucked* the cleaning industry which is why state governments
> were moving away from private contractors.
>
> Daryl may or may not have been involved in fucking things up but the
> industry he was in was surely did. The writing had been on the wall for
> years as other state governments had ditched private contracts as it was
> a dismal failure for employees, being overworked and underpaid and
> getting screwed over and for schools due to poor standards of cleaning
> and rorting.
>
> Dozy Daryl didn't see it coming but he should have if he had any
> business acumen about him.

For a Western Australian mechanic, you seem to think that you know a lot
about school cleaning in Victoria.

On 7/07/2023 3:31 pm, Daryl wrote:
> On 7/7/2023 2:37 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:

>> **Well, certainly a Euro car, but not a Japanese one. A mate just sold
>> his Nissan Prairie. 800,000km up. No major engine work. Ever. I was
>> stunned that someone actually paid money for the thing. Ironically, I
>> sold the in-law's Vectra, with 120,000km on the clock for less money.
>>
> How long any ICE lasts can vary significantly, there are many many older
> MB diesels that have done in excess of one million miles.
> Old Falcon and Holden taxis used to do huge kms if well maintained so
> lasting a long time depends a lot on how they are treated, almost any
> well maintained engine that is driven long distance can do high kms,
> Japanese engines aren't special in that regard, I've seen many fail
> without having done a lot of kms.

I had an XF Falcon ute that had done 750k km's on it's original engine
with a single head gasket. That's it. Trans, diff, suspension, steering
and the rest of the engine were all untouched. It was a couier's ute
that I bought for next to nothing and I drove it around for a couple of
years without doing a thing to it.

As you say old taxi's used to do hundreds of thousands of km's without
issue.

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 6/07/2023 7:18 pm, Clocky wrote:
> On 6/07/2023 4:16 pm, lindsay wrote:
>> On 6/07/2023 11:52 am, Xeno wrote:
>>> On 6/7/2023 9:11 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 5/07/2023 10:23 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>
>>>> That depends a lot on how you use it, batteries can last a lot
>>>> longer than that. It depends on how you use them, running them right
>>>> down, and/or fast charging them all the time will reduce their life.
>>>
>>> Charging over 80% degrades battery life too.
>>
>> really? Please explain... methinks you've fucked up yet again, opening
>> your pox-ridded pie hole on a subject you have no physical experiance
>> with yet again....
>>
>>
>
> You don't think at all.
>
> Li-Ion battery life is dramatically shortened by charging to 100% of
> capacity (or discharging to 0%). So there is a compromise between
> longevity and maximum capacity where the latter is often sacrificed to
> extend the life of the battery. In other applications where maximum
> capacity is desirable over longevity, like say a laptop battery, cells
> might be charged to a maximum of 4.2V but it dramatically reduces the
> life of the cell. In applications where longevity is also important,
> like EV's, the cells are charged to only 3.7V where the maximum capacity
> per cell is 4.2V to extend their life.
>
> https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-808-how-to-prolong-lithium-based-batteries

I think that the manufacturers may be aware of this, in this article

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/silent-smooth-sublime-driving-the-electric-2024-rolls-royce-spectre/

note the words

"The motors are fed by a lithium-ion battery that lives between the
axles. It has a gross capacity of 120 kWh and a usable capacity of 105 kWh"

that's about 15% less than the full capacity.

On 7/07/2023 3:12 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 2:29 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 7/07/2023 10:05 am, Daryl wrote:
>
>>> Depreciation isn't just about reliability and more so with an EV, the
>>> battery has a limited life, even if its treated perfectly it won't
>>> last forever so battery life expectancy does have a big effect on
>>> resale.
>>> Would you pay top dollar for a 10yr old EV?
>>> Buying any 10yr old EV comes with a huge risk of battery failure so
>>> that's why they depreciate much more than an ICE vehicle.
>>> Some people in the US are repairing EV batteries and that may
>>> eventually be common place but that's a long way off so for now at
>>> least 10yr old EV's will have a very low value.
>>>
>> Tesla reckon that their batteries are good for 200K miles (320K Km).
>> That may or may not be true, and would depend on how it had been
>> driven, but, if it is true, that is a life commensurate with that for
>> an IC engined car.
>
> Perhaps. There are plenty of regular IC powered cars that will do
> significantly better than that and not be adversely affected.
>
It's being worked on

https://www.scania.com/group/en/home/newsroom/press-releases/press-release-detail-page.html/4518788-scania-and-northvolt-unveil-green-battery-capable-of-powering-trucks-for-1-5-million-kilometers

As for Tesla, in this article

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/how-harbinger-is-building-commercial-evs-with-20-year-life-spans/?comments=1&comments-page=2

"when you look at a Tesla battery pack that's 15 years old, and there's
a couple now, the cells are fine, the enclosures all rusted through."

On 7/07/2023 4:11 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 6/07/2023 5:17 pm, Clocky wrote:

>> Dozy Daryl didn't see it coming but he should have if he had any
>> business acumen about him.
>
> For a Western Australian mechanic, you seem to think that you know a lot
> about school cleaning in Victoria.

Is he back, is he? I thought he ran away with his tail between his legs
like a massive sook because nobody loved him? How embarrassing that he
has to crawl back here, presumably because nobody loves him anywhere
else.....

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 7/07/2023 4:56 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 3:12 pm, Noddy wrote:

>>> Tesla reckon that their batteries are good for 200K miles (320K Km).
>>> That may or may not be true, and would depend on how it had been
>>> driven, but, if it is true, that is a life commensurate with that for
>>> an IC engined car.
>>
>> Perhaps. There are plenty of regular IC powered cars that will do
>> significantly better than that and not be adversely affected.
>>
> It's being worked on
>
> https://www.scania.com/group/en/home/newsroom/press-releases/press-release-detail-page.html/4518788-scania-and-northvolt-unveil-green-battery-capable-of-powering-trucks-for-1-5-million-kilometers
>
> As for Tesla, in this article
>
> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/how-harbinger-is-building-commercial-evs-with-20-year-life-spans/?comments=1&comments-page=2
>
> "when you look at a Tesla battery pack that's 15 years old, and there's
> a couple now, the cells are fine, the enclosures all rusted through."

Like Al-ion batteries, *when* they get here they'll be great. But
they're not here yet....

--
--
--
Regards,
Noddy.

On 7/7/2023 11:33 am, alvey wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 08:33:45 +1000, Noddy wrote:
>
>> On 6/07/2023 9:01 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 6/07/2023 11:58 am, Xeno wrote:
>>>
>>>> All the people I know who have Teslas have them on lease arrangements.
>>>
>>> As  a percentage of Tesla owners that would be rather a small sample.
>>
>> Assuming they were real people :)
>>
>> Here's the really ridiculous thing. I don't know how many times in the
>> past this mental defect has claimed that the wife and I lease our cars.

As I said, Darren's wife (supposedly) works for the *Victorian
Government* and, at one stage, so did I. I recall, back in 2001, said
government had a push towards salary sacrifice and the prime focus of
that was towards either super or leasing arrangements. Or both. We had,
at the time, two incomes, no debts and no dependants living at home so
could live on the smell of an oily rag. I went to all the seminars and
it resulted in me looking at leasing a vehicle under a lease
arrangement. Whilst doing that I set up a separate scheme with Vic
Super. My untimely retirement put the kibosh on the lease arrangement.
But, from my readout, a car lease was an exceptional tax minimising
arrangement at that time and is even better nowadays. A number of my
neighbours in Melbourne had their cars on lease arrangements and, if I'm
not mistaken, BEV lease arrangements are somewhat special at the current
time. So, as I have repeatedly stated, if that Darren's Santa Fe *isn't*
on a lease, he must have given his wife *flawed financial advice*. He
definitely has form there!

>> We don't and never have, and how *he* thinks he'd know is a complete
>> mystery.
>
> No great mystery there Fraudster. If you claim something, then the
> opposite is a better than even chance of being the truth.

I'd say your determination is spot on!
>
> Also, as a multiple novated car lessee in my previous life, you choosing
> *not* to do so is entirely consistent with your legendary blurt that
> buying a new car on a low interest loan was the best way to go. Gawd that
> was a hoot! Shot down by felix. Hahahaha
>
I still laugh about that!
>
> alvey

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/7/2023 2:56 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 2:37 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 7/07/2023 2:29 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 7/07/2023 10:05 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>> On 7/7/2023 6:51 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>> On 6/07/2023 10:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/7/2023 12:25 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 5/07/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is
>>>>>>>>> zero stock. Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait
>>>>>>>>> times are getting close to 18 months which is absolutely
>>>>>>>>> ridiculous.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like
>>>>>>>>> 350 allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all
>>>>>>>>> but one of them had been sold months in advance. The one unsold
>>>>>>>>> car they got, which was a blue XLT Dual cab, was ordered by the
>>>>>>>>> dealer as floor stock. It arrived on Friday night and was sold
>>>>>>>>> by 9am the next morning.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably
>>>>>>>>> different.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't
>>>>>>>> got the vehicles.
>>>>>>>> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla model
>>>>>>>> y has a base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we continuously
>>>>>>>> hear that inflation is high and interest rates are also high and
>>>>>>>> a lot of people are supposedly struggling financially but many
>>>>>>>> are still buying expensive vehicles which seems odd.
>>>>>>>> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they
>>>>>>>> make economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time
>>>>>>>> they are about 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
>>>>>>>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more
>>>>>>>> money than sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Here is the experience I read today, from a Canadian Tesla owner:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> I am starting to hit the point of significant repairs. My car is
>>>>>>> a 2015 Tesla Model S 85P and now has over 235,000 km (146,000
>>>>>>> miles) on it. In the last year I have had just over $10,000 of
>>>>>>> repairs on it which is about equivalent to my gas savings.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tesla’s pricing on repairs has also moved from what used to seem
>>>>>>> reasonable to a level that feels more like gouging. I had some of
>>>>>>> the repair work that did not need Tesla’s expertise done at other
>>>>>>> shops - typically for about half the price.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here is a summary of some of my repairs and expenses in the last
>>>>>>> year:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>      3-way coolant valve
>>>>>>>      steering shaft link
>>>>>>>      4-way coolant valve
>>>>>>>      headlight
>>>>>>>      radar sensor
>>>>>>>      rear brakes and rotors and rear parking brake calipers
>>>>>>>      6 different front and rear suspension components and alignment
>>>>>>>      Back-up camera
>>>>>>>      drive unit seals and half-shafts (only partially covered by
>>>>>>> warrantee)
>>>>>>>      2 rear tires with premature wear due to failing suspension
>>>>>>> components
>>>>>>>      Parking sensor
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I still love our two Teslas, but I hope that these repairs do not
>>>>>>> continue at this pace!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Additional comments/clarification:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I live in a part of Canada that puts a lot of salt on the roads
>>>>>>> in the winter - this is hard on all types of cars in this area.
>>>>>>> The body looks great compared to most cars of a similar age.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My battery degradation is right in line with all of the charts
>>>>>>> that show that I will still have about 70% of my battery capacity
>>>>>>> if I keep the car until 500K km.
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Make of that what you will.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Interesting to read a report from an actual owner who has done a
>>>>>> lot of kms.
>>>>>> His battery capacity at 500k kms is nothing more than a wild guess
>>>>>> though.
>>>>>
>>>>> **Not really, though your assumption that the value of the car will
>>>>> be zero after a specific time period certainly is. Based on the
>>>>> owner's report, I'd say that the Tesla is no more, or less reliable
>>>>> than any US or European vehicle. Still, a long way behind a typical
>>>>> Japanese or Korean vehicle.
>>>>>
>>>> Depreciation isn't just about reliability and more so with an EV,
>>>> the battery has a limited life, even if its treated perfectly it
>>>> won't last forever so battery life expectancy does have a big effect
>>>> on resale.
>>>> Would you pay top dollar for a 10yr old EV?
>>>> Buying any 10yr old EV comes with a huge risk of battery failure so
>>>> that's why they depreciate much more than an ICE vehicle.
>>>> Some people in the US are repairing EV batteries and that may
>>>> eventually be common place but that's a long way off so for now at
>>>> least 10yr old EV's will have a very low value.
>>>>
>>> Tesla reckon that their batteries are good for 200K miles (320K Km).
>>> That may or may not be true, and would depend on how it had been
>>> driven, but, if it is true, that is a life commensurate with that for
>>> an IC engined car.
>>
>> **Well, certainly a Euro car, but not a Japanese one. A mate just sold
>> his Nissan Prairie. 800,000km up. No major engine work. Ever. I was
>> stunned that someone actually paid money for the thing. Ironically, I
>> sold the in-law's Vectra, with 120,000km on the clock for less money.
>>
> Of course there are edge cases, but, by and large, cars with over 300K
> on the clock are worthless no matter where they came from.

Over 10 years and over 200k klm, the car is considered by the market in
general to be beyond the use by date and the plunge in resale value to
its nadir reflects that. Even at 100k, the used value has taken a big hit.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/7/2023 3:13 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 2:56 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 7/07/2023 2:37 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>> On 7/07/2023 2:29 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 7/07/2023 10:05 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>> On 7/7/2023 6:51 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>> On 6/07/2023 10:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/7/2023 12:25 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is
>>>>>>>>>> zero stock. Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but wait
>>>>>>>>>> times are getting close to 18 months which is absolutely
>>>>>>>>>> ridiculous.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like
>>>>>>>>>> 350 allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all
>>>>>>>>>> but one of them had been sold months in advance. The one
>>>>>>>>>> unsold car they got, which was a blue XLT Dual cab, was
>>>>>>>>>> ordered by the dealer as floor stock. It arrived on Friday
>>>>>>>>>> night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably
>>>>>>>>>> different.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't
>>>>>>>>> got the vehicles.
>>>>>>>>> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla
>>>>>>>>> model y has a base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we
>>>>>>>>> continuously hear that inflation is high and interest rates are
>>>>>>>>> also high and a lot of people are supposedly struggling
>>>>>>>>> financially but many are still buying expensive vehicles which
>>>>>>>>> seems odd.
>>>>>>>>> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they
>>>>>>>>> make economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time
>>>>>>>>> they are about 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
>>>>>>>>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more
>>>>>>>>> money than sense.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> **Here is the experience I read today, from a Canadian Tesla owner:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> I am starting to hit the point of significant repairs. My car is
>>>>>>>> a 2015 Tesla Model S 85P and now has over 235,000 km (146,000
>>>>>>>> miles) on it. In the last year I have had just over $10,000 of
>>>>>>>> repairs on it which is about equivalent to my gas savings.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tesla’s pricing on repairs has also moved from what used to seem
>>>>>>>> reasonable to a level that feels more like gouging. I had some
>>>>>>>> of the repair work that did not need Tesla’s expertise done at
>>>>>>>> other shops - typically for about half the price.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Here is a summary of some of my repairs and expenses in the last
>>>>>>>> year:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>      3-way coolant valve
>>>>>>>>      steering shaft link
>>>>>>>>      4-way coolant valve
>>>>>>>>      headlight
>>>>>>>>      radar sensor
>>>>>>>>      rear brakes and rotors and rear parking brake calipers
>>>>>>>>      6 different front and rear suspension components and alignment
>>>>>>>>      Back-up camera
>>>>>>>>      drive unit seals and half-shafts (only partially covered by
>>>>>>>> warrantee)
>>>>>>>>      2 rear tires with premature wear due to failing suspension
>>>>>>>> components
>>>>>>>>      Parking sensor
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I still love our two Teslas, but I hope that these repairs do
>>>>>>>> not continue at this pace!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Additional comments/clarification:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I live in a part of Canada that puts a lot of salt on the roads
>>>>>>>> in the winter - this is hard on all types of cars in this area.
>>>>>>>> The body looks great compared to most cars of a similar age.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My battery degradation is right in line with all of the charts
>>>>>>>> that show that I will still have about 70% of my battery
>>>>>>>> capacity if I keep the car until 500K km.
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Make of that what you will.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Interesting to read a report from an actual owner who has done a
>>>>>>> lot of kms.
>>>>>>> His battery capacity at 500k kms is nothing more than a wild
>>>>>>> guess though.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> **Not really, though your assumption that the value of the car
>>>>>> will be zero after a specific time period certainly is. Based on
>>>>>> the owner's report, I'd say that the Tesla is no more, or less
>>>>>> reliable than any US or European vehicle. Still, a long way behind
>>>>>> a typical Japanese or Korean vehicle.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Depreciation isn't just about reliability and more so with an EV,
>>>>> the battery has a limited life, even if its treated perfectly it
>>>>> won't last forever so battery life expectancy does have a big
>>>>> effect on resale.
>>>>> Would you pay top dollar for a 10yr old EV?
>>>>> Buying any 10yr old EV comes with a huge risk of battery failure so
>>>>> that's why they depreciate much more than an ICE vehicle.
>>>>> Some people in the US are repairing EV batteries and that may
>>>>> eventually be common place but that's a long way off so for now at
>>>>> least 10yr old EV's will have a very low value.
>>>>>
>>>> Tesla reckon that their batteries are good for 200K miles (320K Km).
>>>> That may or may not be true, and would depend on how it had been
>>>> driven, but, if it is true, that is a life commensurate with that
>>>> for an IC engined car.
>>>
>>> **Well, certainly a Euro car, but not a Japanese one. A mate just
>>> sold his Nissan Prairie. 800,000km up. No major engine work. Ever. I
>>> was stunned that someone actually paid money for the thing.
>>> Ironically, I sold the in-law's Vectra, with 120,000km on the clock
>>> for less money.
>>>
>> Of course there are edge cases, but, by and large, cars with over 300K
>> on the clock are worthless no matter where they came from.
>
> **Well, yeah, but a Nissan Prairie? WTF?
>
Nissans are worthless once driven off the showroom floor.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/7/2023 3:18 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 2:37 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 7/07/2023 2:29 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>
>>> Tesla reckon that their batteries are good for 200K miles (320K Km).
>>> That may or may not be true, and would depend on how it had been
>>> driven, but, if it is true, that is a life commensurate with that for
>>> an IC engined car.
>>
>> **Well, certainly a Euro car, but not a Japanese one. A mate just sold
>> his Nissan Prairie. 800,000km up. No major engine work. Ever. I was
>> stunned that someone actually paid money for the thing. Ironically, I
>> sold the in-law's Vectra, with 120,000km on the clock for less money.
>
> That was due entirely to it being a Vectra :)
>
> The key issue here is that unlike regular ICE powered cars, batteries
> have a finite life and no matter how well you care for them they will
> eventually die and need to be replaced. Now, I'm not suggesting that
> ICE's don't wear out and eventually die, but unlike a battery their
> lifespan can be *very* lengthy and can go for decades without needing to
> be replaced at all.

The issue is, and always has been, the residual value versus the cost of
rectification. BEVs can comfortably go 10 years/200k on original
batteries but, like ICE engined cars, the residual value at that point
will make a new battery or new engine a cost ineffective procedure.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/7/2023 3:21 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 2:37 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 7/07/2023 11:08 am, alvey wrote:
>
>>> Poor old Fraudster.
>>> All you've got are laughable, childish insults. In the game of life
>>> they'll lose to facts every single time. And ***EVERYONE*** here
>>> knows the
>>> facts about you Fraudster.
>>
>> Poor old alvey. All you've got are laughable, childish insults. In the
>> game of life they'll lose to facts every single time. And you're so
>> ashamed of the facts about you that you don't want anybody here to
>> know them.
>
> Is he still here? He's a fucking idiot.....
>
Now now Darren, you read *everything* that Alvey posts.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/7/2023 3:24 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 2:38 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 6/07/2023 11:11 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>
>>> Most BEV owners are lucky to do 50 kilometres *per day*. It all
>>> depends on their commute.
>>
>> In that case a novated lease will save them little or nothing.
>
> Clasener giving yet *another* clear demonstration of his lack of
> personal experience I see :)
>
> As mentioned in other posts, Novated leases can work for *some* people,
> but they're not guaranteed to save everyone a tonne of money. Their
> value depends entirely on individual circumstances.
>
Depends on your income and your tax arrangements.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/7/2023 4:11 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 6/07/2023 5:17 pm, Clocky wrote:
>> On 6/07/2023 9:09 am, Noddy wrote:
>>> On 6/07/2023 9:11 am, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 5/07/2023 10:23 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more
>>>>>> money than sense.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Omigod! No wonder your business acumen, or the lack thereof, caused
>>>>> your business to fail.
>>>>
>>>> Did it fail or did he just retire? You seem to be making assumptions
>>>> there.
>>>
>>> Story of his miserable existence. As usual, he has no idea what he's
>>> talking about and makes shit up to suit himself. Daryl had quite a
>>> successful business as a government contractor, but the government
>>> woke up one morning and decided to terminate all contracts putting
>>> Daryl and others like him out of business immediately.
>>>
>>> It was no fault of anyone other than the Victorian State Government
>>> making a fucking mess
>>
>> Nope. 100% dozy Dazza's fault. The writing had been on the wall for a
>> long time and he should have seen it coming as the private contractors
>> absolutely *fucked* the cleaning industry which is why state
>> governments were moving away from private contractors.
>>
>> Daryl may or may not have been involved in fucking things up but the
>> industry he was in was surely did. The writing had been on the wall
>> for years as other state governments had ditched private contracts as
>> it was a dismal failure for employees, being overworked and underpaid
>> and getting screwed over and for schools due to poor standards of
>> cleaning and rorting.
>>
>> Dozy Daryl didn't see it coming but he should have if he had any
>> business acumen about him.
>
> For a Western Australian mechanic, you seem to think that you know a lot
> about school cleaning in Victoria.

He isn't incorrect, that much is certain. I was told all about what was
going on in secondary schools in Victoria by a neighbour who was, in
fact, a school cleaner. He was initially employed by the school, but the
then govt. decided to contract the cleaning out. Cleaners were given the
option of doing the job on a clearly defined contract - my neighbour
took it up. Then the spivs moved in, undercut the individual
contractors, took over the school contracts, hired cleaners under
subcontracts, then proceeded to rort the system. Hmmm, Daryl was a
contractor who had subbies/employees working for him.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/7/2023 8:38 pm, Noddy wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 4:11 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 6/07/2023 5:17 pm, Clocky wrote:
>
>>> Dozy Daryl didn't see it coming but he should have if he had any
>>> business acumen about him.
>>
>> For a Western Australian mechanic, you seem to think that you know a
>> lot about school cleaning in Victoria.
>
> Is he back, is he? I thought he ran away with his tail between his legs
> like a massive sook because nobody loved him? How embarrassing that he
> has to crawl back here, presumably because nobody loves him anywhere
> else.....
>
You infest *only* aus.cars because no other forum will tolerate your
lies, bullshit and self aggrandising claims anywhere else. All the
moderated forums have canned the crap out of you long ago when they
worked out your bullshit was just that - bullshit.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 7/7/2023 4:56 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
> On 7/07/2023 3:12 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 7/07/2023 2:29 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 7/07/2023 10:05 am, Daryl wrote:
>>
>>>> Depreciation isn't just about reliability and more so with an EV,
>>>> the battery has a limited life, even if its treated perfectly it
>>>> won't last forever so battery life expectancy does have a big effect
>>>> on resale.
>>>> Would you pay top dollar for a 10yr old EV?
>>>> Buying any 10yr old EV comes with a huge risk of battery failure so
>>>> that's why they depreciate much more than an ICE vehicle.
>>>> Some people in the US are repairing EV batteries and that may
>>>> eventually be common place but that's a long way off so for now at
>>>> least 10yr old EV's will have a very low value.
>>>>
>>> Tesla reckon that their batteries are good for 200K miles (320K Km).
>>> That may or may not be true, and would depend on how it had been
>>> driven, but, if it is true, that is a life commensurate with that for
>>> an IC engined car.
>>
>> Perhaps. There are plenty of regular IC powered cars that will do
>> significantly better than that and not be adversely affected.
>>
> It's being worked on
>
> https://www.scania.com/group/en/home/newsroom/press-releases/press-release-detail-page.html/4518788-scania-and-northvolt-unveil-green-battery-capable-of-powering-trucks-for-1-5-million-kilometers

Excellent if their claims are true.
Time will tell if the marketing meets reality.

>
> As for Tesla, in this article
>
> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/07/how-harbinger-is-building-commercial-evs-with-20-year-life-spans/?comments=1&comments-page=2
>
> "when you look at a Tesla battery pack that's 15 years old, and there's
> a couple now, the cells are fine, the enclosures all rusted through."
>
>
Certainly possible that a lithium battery can last a long time, I've got
a lot of lithium RC car, drone and power tool batteries and quite a few
of them are more than 10yrs old but many of them have sat around for
years not being used.
At least in Australia rust is less likely to be an issue.

--
Daryl

On 7/07/2023 10:12 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 7/7/2023 3:13 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>> On 7/07/2023 2:56 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 7/07/2023 2:37 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>> On 7/07/2023 2:29 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>> On 7/07/2023 10:05 am, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>> On 7/7/2023 6:51 am, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>> On 6/07/2023 10:57 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 6/7/2023 12:25 pm, Trevor Wilson wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2023 9:40 pm, Daryl wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 5/7/2023 5:45 pm, Noddy wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> On 5/07/2023 5:00 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Now second best selling vehicle in Australia
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.drive.com.au/news/vfacts-june-2023-toyota-hilux-tesla-model-y-ford-ranger-electric-cars-surge/
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I think the biggest problem for the Ranger at the moment is
>>>>>>>>>>> zero stock. Dealers are taking orders hand over fist, but
>>>>>>>>>>> wait times are getting close to 18 months which is absolutely
>>>>>>>>>>> ridiculous.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> When I picked mine up last week the dealer had something like
>>>>>>>>>>> 350 allocated on the same shipment my car arrived on, and all
>>>>>>>>>>> but one of them had been sold months in advance. The one
>>>>>>>>>>> unsold car they got, which was a blue XLT Dual cab, was
>>>>>>>>>>> ordered by the dealer as floor stock. It arrived on Friday
>>>>>>>>>>> night and was sold by 9am the next morning.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> If they had stock on hand the situation would be remarkably
>>>>>>>>>>> different.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Very much looks that way, can't finalize a sale if you haven't
>>>>>>>>>> got the vehicles.
>>>>>>>>>> IMHO what's even stranger is that a vehicle like the Tesla
>>>>>>>>>> model y has a base price of just under $70,000.00 yet we
>>>>>>>>>> continuously hear that inflation is high and interest rates
>>>>>>>>>> are also high and a lot of people are supposedly struggling
>>>>>>>>>> financially but many are still buying expensive vehicles which
>>>>>>>>>> seems odd.
>>>>>>>>>> People who buy Tesla's certainly don't buy them because they
>>>>>>>>>> make economic sense, they are expensive to buy and by the time
>>>>>>>>>> they are about 10yrs old they will be next to worthless.
>>>>>>>>>> Despite what we are hearing a lot of people seem to have more
>>>>>>>>>> money than sense.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> **Here is the experience I read today, from a Canadian Tesla
>>>>>>>>> owner:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> I am starting to hit the point of significant repairs. My car
>>>>>>>>> is a 2015 Tesla Model S 85P and now has over 235,000 km
>>>>>>>>> (146,000 miles) on it. In the last year I have had just over
>>>>>>>>> $10,000 of repairs on it which is about equivalent to my gas
>>>>>>>>> savings.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Tesla’s pricing on repairs has also moved from what used to
>>>>>>>>> seem reasonable to a level that feels more like gouging. I had
>>>>>>>>> some of the repair work that did not need Tesla’s expertise
>>>>>>>>> done at other shops - typically for about half the price.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Here is a summary of some of my repairs and expenses in the
>>>>>>>>> last year:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>      3-way coolant valve
>>>>>>>>>      steering shaft link
>>>>>>>>>      4-way coolant valve
>>>>>>>>>      headlight
>>>>>>>>>      radar sensor
>>>>>>>>>      rear brakes and rotors and rear parking brake calipers
>>>>>>>>>      6 different front and rear suspension components and
>>>>>>>>> alignment
>>>>>>>>>      Back-up camera
>>>>>>>>>      drive unit seals and half-shafts (only partially covered
>>>>>>>>> by warrantee)
>>>>>>>>>      2 rear tires with premature wear due to failing suspension
>>>>>>>>> components
>>>>>>>>>      Parking sensor
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I still love our two Teslas, but I hope that these repairs do
>>>>>>>>> not continue at this pace!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Additional comments/clarification:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I live in a part of Canada that puts a lot of salt on the roads
>>>>>>>>> in the winter - this is hard on all types of cars in this area.
>>>>>>>>> The body looks great compared to most cars of a similar age.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My battery degradation is right in line with all of the charts
>>>>>>>>> that show that I will still have about 70% of my battery
>>>>>>>>> capacity if I keep the car until 500K km.
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Make of that what you will.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Interesting to read a report from an actual owner who has done a
>>>>>>>> lot of kms.
>>>>>>>> His battery capacity at 500k kms is nothing more than a wild
>>>>>>>> guess though.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> **Not really, though your assumption that the value of the car
>>>>>>> will be zero after a specific time period certainly is. Based on
>>>>>>> the owner's report, I'd say that the Tesla is no more, or less
>>>>>>> reliable than any US or European vehicle. Still, a long way
>>>>>>> behind a typical Japanese or Korean vehicle.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Depreciation isn't just about reliability and more so with an EV,
>>>>>> the battery has a limited life, even if its treated perfectly it
>>>>>> won't last forever so battery life expectancy does have a big
>>>>>> effect on resale.
>>>>>> Would you pay top dollar for a 10yr old EV?
>>>>>> Buying any 10yr old EV comes with a huge risk of battery failure
>>>>>> so that's why they depreciate much more than an ICE vehicle.
>>>>>> Some people in the US are repairing EV batteries and that may
>>>>>> eventually be common place but that's a long way off so for now at
>>>>>> least 10yr old EV's will have a very low value.
>>>>>>
>>>>> Tesla reckon that their batteries are good for 200K miles (320K
>>>>> Km). That may or may not be true, and would depend on how it had
>>>>> been driven, but, if it is true, that is a life commensurate with
>>>>> that for an IC engined car.
>>>>
>>>> **Well, certainly a Euro car, but not a Japanese one. A mate just
>>>> sold his Nissan Prairie. 800,000km up. No major engine work. Ever. I
>>>> was stunned that someone actually paid money for the thing.
>>>> Ironically, I sold the in-law's Vectra, with 120,000km on the clock
>>>> for less money.
>>>>
>>> Of course there are edge cases, but, by and large, cars with over
>>> 300K on the clock are worthless no matter where they came from.
>>
>> **Well, yeah, but a Nissan Prairie? WTF?
>>
> Nissans are worthless once driven off the showroom floor.
>

On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 14:37:10 +1000, Keithr0 wrote:

> On 7/07/2023 11:08 am, alvey wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 08:35:34 +1000, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/07/2023 9:04 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 6/07/2023 8:05 pm, Xeno wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I have a feeling that my lawyer has a *real qualification*. You see,
>>>>> unlike the motor trade in Victoria, the legal profession has a
>>>>> definite requirement that lawyers be qualified.
>>>>
>>>> The bell rings and the dog slavers.
>>>
>>> It's fucked up, isn't it?
>>>
>>> "Mental illness" doesn't quite cover the actions of this imbecile. It
>>> goes some way beyond that.
>>
>> Poor old Fraudster.
>> All you've got are laughable, childish insults. In the game of life
>> they'll lose to facts every single time. And ***EVERYONE*** here knows
>> the facts about you Fraudster.
>
> Poor old alvey. All you've got are laughable, childish insults. In the
> game of life they'll lose to facts every single time. And you're so
> ashamed of the facts about you that you don't want anybody here to know
> them.

I'd probably drop my coffee if you ever wrote anything original Richo. And
Dennis knows what'd happen if it was both original *and* interesting.

Anyhoo, your scintillating contribution gets even worser. Why the hell
should *anyone* have to post their CV?

Looking forward to your response. (He said ironically)

alvey

On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 15:21:37 +1000, Noddy wrote:

> On 7/07/2023 2:37 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>> On 7/07/2023 11:08 am, alvey wrote:
>
>>> Poor old Fraudster.
>>> All you've got are laughable, childish insults. In the game of life
>>> they'll lose to facts every single time. And ***EVERYONE*** here knows
>>> the facts about you Fraudster.
>>
>> Poor old alvey. All you've got are laughable, childish insults. In the
>> game of life they'll lose to facts every single time. And you're so
>> ashamed of the facts about you that you don't want anybody here to know
>> them.
>
> Is he still here?

lol.
You're not fooling anybody Fraudster. Shit Fraudster! You even 'replied'
to me, in your usual cowardly manner, a couple of posts back.

> He's a fucking idiot.....

Still just an opinion O lying, fraudulent, cowardly hypocrite.

alvey

On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 21:55:16 +1000, Xeno wrote:

> On 7/7/2023 11:33 am, alvey wrote:
>> On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 08:33:45 +1000, Noddy wrote:
>>
>>> On 6/07/2023 9:01 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>>> On 6/07/2023 11:58 am, Xeno wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> All the people I know who have Teslas have them on lease
>>>>> arrangements.
>>>>
>>>> As  a percentage of Tesla owners that would be rather a small sample.
>>>
>>> Assuming they were real people :)
>>>
>>> Here's the really ridiculous thing. I don't know how many times in the
>>> past this mental defect has claimed that the wife and I lease our
>>> cars.
>
> As I said, Darren's wife (supposedly) works for the *Victorian
> Government*...

Indeed she does/did. And she likes her job so much that she's prepared to
spend hours a day commuting. Either that or she's keen to get away from
the bumhead of Bumhole (Vic)...

> and, at one stage, so did I. I recall, back in 2001, said
> government had a push towards salary sacrifice and the prime focus of
> that was towards either super or leasing arrangements. Or both. We had,
> at the time, two incomes, no debts and no dependants living at home so
> could live on the smell of an oily rag. I went to all the seminars and
> it resulted in me looking at leasing a vehicle under a lease
> arrangement. Whilst doing that I set up a separate scheme with Vic
> Super. My untimely retirement put the kibosh on the lease arrangement.
> But, from my readout, a car lease was an exceptional tax minimising
> arrangement at that time and is even better nowadays.

Bottom Line: If it's not worth doing, why then have so many people been
doing it?

You lose again Fraudster.

alvey

On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 16:13:57 +1000, Noddy wrote:

>
> I had an XF Falcon ute that had done 750k km's ...

Sure you did Fraudster. I believe you. Honest.

alvey
Pondering on how regularly Fraudster yelps about Xenos' "convenient"
friends yet expects everyone to believe that he's owned all the
"convenient" cars he's forever introducing...

On 7/07/2023 10:16 pm, Xeno wrote:
> On 7/7/2023 3:21 pm, Noddy wrote:
>> On 7/07/2023 2:37 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 7/07/2023 11:08 am, alvey wrote:
>>
>>>> Poor old Fraudster.
>>>> All you've got are laughable, childish insults. In the game of life
>>>> they'll lose to facts every single time. And ***EVERYONE*** here
>>>> knows the
>>>> facts about you Fraudster.
>>>
>>> Poor old alvey. All you've got are laughable, childish insults. In
>>> the game of life they'll lose to facts every single time. And you're
>>> so ashamed of the facts about you that you don't want anybody here to
>>> know them.
>>
>> Is he still here? He's a fucking idiot.....
>>
> Now now Darren, you read *everything* that Alvey posts.
>
Paul Simon summed you up very well

"A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"

On 8/07/2023 8:16 am, alvey wrote:
> On Fri, 07 Jul 2023 15:21:37 +1000, Noddy wrote:
>
>> On 7/07/2023 2:37 pm, Keithr0 wrote:
>>> On 7/07/2023 11:08 am, alvey wrote:
>>
>>>> Poor old Fraudster.
>>>> All you've got are laughable, childish insults. In the game of life
>>>> they'll lose to facts every single time. And ***EVERYONE*** here knows
>>>> the facts about you Fraudster.
>>>
>>> Poor old alvey. All you've got are laughable, childish insults. In the
>>> game of life they'll lose to facts every single time. And you're so
>>> ashamed of the facts about you that you don't want anybody here to know
>>> them.
>>
>> Is he still here?
>
> lol.
> You're not fooling anybody Fraudster. Shit Fraudster! You even 'replied'
> to me, in your usual cowardly manner, a couple of posts back.

Message number?