In article <sijt40$uj9$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 23/09/2021 23:45, Owen Rees wrote:
> > I know that it ended up being used as an industrial controller among
> > other things.

> Some were being used for that many years after most people had forgotten
> about the BBC computer series.

Yes. In addition to the common story about power stations I know some were
used for various radar systems and tracking shipping or aircraft.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 24/09/2021 09:52, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> Yes. In addition to the common story about power stations I know some were
> used for various radar systems and tracking shipping or aircraft.

I read somewhere that many theatre lighting systems were controlled from
a BBC computer.

In article <simrcg$nil$2@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 24/09/2021 09:52, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> > Yes. In addition to the common story about power stations I know some
> > were used for various radar systems and tracking shipping or aircraft.

> I read somewhere that many theatre lighting systems were controlled from
> a BBC computer.

and box office systems. I even wrote one for my drama club.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

In article <xn0n39e3baoz77f00q@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
<jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 23/09/2021 in message <5970660bbcnoise@audiomisc.co.uk> Jim Lesurf
> wrote:

> >That said, the B did what it was meant to do for the BBC, etc. We had
> >one running an interferometer for decades, and used them to write
> >documents, di analysis, etc. I believe a few people even played 'Elite'
> >on it as well... 8-]

> Brother in Law and I hacked a pirate copy of Elite to run but found it
> boring to play.

I never found any computer games very interesting. Slight exception for
'Lemmings' as it was initially amusing to try and stop them from killing
themselves. But after a few goes... boring.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 25/09/2021 10:15, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> I never found any computer games very interesting. Slight exception for
> 'Lemmings' as it was initially amusing to try and stop them from killing
> themselves. But after a few g

I wrote a PACMAN clone for my Nascom which kept my friends' kids amused
when they stayed with me or I visited them - one went on to being a
producer for one of the biggest selling games and has his own company in
the USA now!

I bought other games for friends' kids later as more became available
but never had any interest myself.

On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:01 +0100
Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <xn0n39e3baoz77f00q@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
> <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > On 23/09/2021 in message <5970660bbcnoise@audiomisc.co.uk> Jim
> > Lesurf wrote:
>
> > >That said, the B did what it was meant to do for the BBC, etc. We
> > >had one running an interferometer for decades, and used them to
> > >write documents, di analysis, etc. I believe a few people even
> > >played 'Elite' on it as well... 8-]
>
> > Brother in Law and I hacked a pirate copy of Elite to run but found
> > it boring to play.
>
> I never found any computer games very interesting. Slight exception
> for 'Lemmings' as it was initially amusing to try and stop them from
> killing themselves. But after a few goes... boring.
>
> Jim
>

Agreed. A colleague and I were on night-shift standby once and drew up a
3D map of Castle Wolfenstein for entertainment, but apart from that, I
also have no interest in computer games.
But I did once program a GM car assembly plant oven control HMI screen
so that if anybody pressed a button that did not have a valid
subroutine behind it, Pacman came out from the corner and ate the
screen away. That was a worthwhile use of him.
--
Davey.

On 26/09/2021 10:33, Davey wrote:
>
> On Sat, 25 Sep 2021 10:15:01 +0100
> Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I never found any computer games very interesting. Slight exception
>> for 'Lemmings' as it was initially amusing to try and stop them from
>> killing themselves. But after a few goes... boring.
>
> Agreed. A colleague and I were on night-shift standby once and drew up a
> 3D map of Castle Wolfenstein for entertainment, but apart from that, I
> also have no interest in computer games.
> But I did once program a GM car assembly plant oven control HMI screen
> so that if anybody pressed a button that did not have a valid
> subroutine behind it, Pacman came out from the corner and ate the
> screen away. That was a worthwhile use of him.

When I was in IT support at work, there was a spate of people installing
unapproved screensavers, unapproved because some of them on some PCs
randomly hung the system when invoked and lost people work. One was
called 'Dozer' and consisted of a ramshackle looking animated bulldozer
chugging and jolting its way back and forth across the screen leaving
the original screen contents in piles of 'rubble' at the edges.

I tended not to like most computer games, because most of them seemed to
violent shoot 'em ups. I played one of those once, IIRC it was called
'Doom' but that's based on dim and distant memory with all that entails
for potential inaccuracy. I finished playing it quite late, and went to
bed. Later that night I awoke in the middle of a nightmare that I was
actually in the game, and, once rationality had returned, thought:
"Maybe playing these things isn't such a good idea!". I've never played
a shoot 'em up since.

However, there were some exceptions which I like playing. On my Amstrad
CPC6128, there was a fantasy sort of shoot 'em up coupled with gathering
'assets' type of game called 'Sorcery Plus' that both my wife and I
liked - it relied on hand-eye co-ordination and fast reactions, and
irritatingly, she being over a decade younger than me, she always got
the slightly better scores!

There was also a fantasy army game called something like 'Lords Of
Midnight' which I quite liked.

But the ones I liked best were situation adventures from companies like
Magnetic Scrolls. Some of their titles were 'The Pawn', 'Jinxster', and
'Guild Of Thieves'. In these you were given a task and an environment,
and had to work out how to accomplish the task given the things you
found as you moved around the environment. About 6 or 7 years back, I
took someone else's slightly buggy implementation of a Magnetic Scrolls
simulator in Java, completely rewrote it, and for a while had all the
games working perfectly. Then a Java update broke it, and I never took
the time to get it going again, perhaps partly because, curiously, I
noted that I had found it perhaps even more rewarding to get all the
games working than actually playing them!

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 25/09/2021 10:15, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article <xn0n39e3baoz77f00q@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
> <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 23/09/2021 in message <5970660bbcnoise@audiomisc.co.uk> Jim Lesurf
>> wrote:
>
>>> That said, the B did what it was meant to do for the BBC, etc. We had
>>> one running an interferometer for decades, and used them to write
>>> documents, di analysis, etc. I believe a few people even played 'Elite'
>>> on it as well... 8-]
>
>> Brother in Law and I hacked a pirate copy of Elite to run but found it
>> boring to play.
>
> I never found any computer games very interesting. Slight exception for
> 'Lemmings' as it was initially amusing to try and stop them from killing
> themselves. But after a few goes... boring.

I've never been interested in the "shoot 'm up" , adventure, or driving
games. I always loved Pinball, though. Perhaps it was a hangover from
playing pinball machines in my youth. I played it from XP through to
Win7 (I can't remember if it was available for my NT4). It was fun
played on a 37" TV screen - I was tempted to put the TV on its edge so
just about the whole screen was the pinball table!

--

Jeff

On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:46:38 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote in <sipmj1$c7c$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

>But the ones I liked best were situation adventures from companies like
>Magnetic Scrolls. Some of their titles were 'The Pawn', 'Jinxster', and
>'Guild Of Thieves'. In these you were given a task and an environment,
>and had to work out how to accomplish the task given the things you
>found as you moved around the environment. About 6 or 7 years back, I
>took someone else's slightly buggy implementation of a Magnetic Scrolls
>simulator in Java, completely rewrote it, and for a while had all the
>games working perfectly. Then a Java update broke it, and I never took
>the time to get it going again, perhaps partly because, curiously, I
>noted that I had found it perhaps even more rewarding to get all the
>games working than actually playing them!
>

Many years ago I had a copy of the original(ish) "Adventure" (which
later became known as Collossal Cave to distinguish it from others of
the kind). It was a FORTRAN program and I was working on a FORTRAN
compiler at the time so the game was a test that the compiler was
(mostly) working. IIRC there is a similar story in "The Soul of a New
Machine". The first challenge was that the program had been copied using
a program that used a fixed size buffer (80 columns) but failed to clear
it before reading the next line. Some sort of shambolic mismatch between
fixed and variable block files probably. The result was that a short
line had whatever was left from previous longer lines at the end. IIRC
we were still using Teletype terminals - you do not get the full
experience with a more modern device. There was a location where the
full description was very long and took several minutes to print. IIRC
it was just called "MAGNIFICENT VIEW" on subsequent visits (no lower
case on those devices!).

In message <kh81lgtjd962vfmbali3rrc8m8tgd5hc5l@4ax.com>, Owen Rees
<orees@hotmail.com> writes
>Many years ago I had a copy of the original(ish) "Adventure" (which
>later became known as Collossal Cave to distinguish it from others of
>the kind). It was a FORTRAN program and I was working on a FORTRAN
>compiler at the time so the game was a test that the compiler was
>(mostly) working. IIRC there is a similar story in "The Soul of a New
>Machine". The first challenge was that the program had been copied
>using a program that used a fixed size buffer (80 columns) but failed
>to clear it before reading the next line. Some sort of shambolic
>mismatch between fixed and variable block files probably. The result
>was that a short line had whatever was left from previous longer lines
>at the end. IIRC we were still using Teletype terminals - you do not
>get the full experience with a more modern device. There was a location
>where the full description was very long and took several minutes to
>print. IIRC it was just called "MAGNIFICENT VIEW" on subsequent visits
>(no lower case on those devices!).
>

I remember that I first played Adventure on a DEC VAX, though on a VDU
(as we called them then) rather than using a Teletype. I have an idea
that all the descriptions were still in upper case, though I could be
wrong.

That was probably the second computer game I ever played, the first
being a version of Lunar Lander on an ICL machine - I can't remember now
whether it was a 1900 or the 2900 that superseded it. I still remember
that if one crashed at high speed it came up with the message "The
crater will be named after you".
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On 21/09/2021 14:48, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
> On 21/09/2021 12:33, Ivan Plapp wrote:
>>> On 19/09/2021 22:47, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> **** all about Clive Sinclair on the BBC, even though he introduced
>>> millions of people to computers. (and how to fix them!)
>>>
>>
>> If you haven't already seen it, I'm hoping it will re-appear on BBC4 /
>> iPlayer
>> soon, check out "Micro Men" with Alexander Armstrong and Martin Freeman
>
> Someone has uploaded it to YouTube
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBxV6-zamM
>
This 2009 BBC play provides an excellent antidote to the myth created by
Sinclair that he was a genius inventor and successful businessman who
created home computing for the masses. Recommended viewing for anyone
interested in separating the Sinclair reality from the myth.

The thread started off with a comment somewhere about the BBC's lack of
enthusiasm over his obit. View this play and you can also see why it has
not been broadcast again (or even put on iPlayer) in his memory.

Somebody posted in another thread a download of this 1985 book about him:
https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/UK-Books/The%20Sinclair%20Story.pdf

It was written with Sinclair's blessing by a good friend and well before
his final demise as a businessman. Hence, it is intended to be
supportive of the myth but reading between the lines you can see that
the play paints an accurate portrait of the great man. It certainly is
more than a work of fiction.

On 26/09/2021 17:52, Owen Rees wrote:
> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:46:38 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
> wrote in <sipmj1$c7c$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>
>> But the ones I liked best were situation adventures from companies like
>> Magnetic Scrolls. Some of their titles were 'The Pawn', 'Jinxster', and
>> 'Guild Of Thieves'. In these you were given a task and an environment,
>> and had to work out how to accomplish the task given the things you
>> found as you moved around the environment. About 6 or 7 years back, I
>> took someone else's slightly buggy implementation of a Magnetic Scrolls
>> simulator in Java, completely rewrote it, and for a while had all the
>> games working perfectly. Then a Java update broke it, and I never took
>> the time to get it going again, perhaps partly because, curiously, I
>> noted that I had found it perhaps even more rewarding to get all the
>> games working than actually playing them!
>>
>
> Many years ago I had a copy of the original(ish) "Adventure" (which
> later became known as Collossal Cave to distinguish it from others of
> the kind). It was a FORTRAN program and I was working on a FORTRAN
> compiler at the time so the game was a test that the compiler was
> (mostly) working. IIRC there is a similar story in "The Soul of a New
> Machine". The first challenge was that the program had been copied using
> a program that used a fixed size buffer (80 columns) but failed to clear
> it before reading the next line. Some sort of shambolic mismatch between
> fixed and variable block files probably. The result was that a short
> line had whatever was left from previous longer lines at the end. IIRC
> we were still using Teletype terminals - you do not get the full
> experience with a more modern device. There was a location where the
> full description was very long and took several minutes to print. IIRC
> it was just called "MAGNIFICENT VIEW" on subsequent visits (no lower
> case on those devices!).
>

XYZZY !

On 26/09/2021 18:05, John Hall wrote:
> In message <kh81lgtjd962vfmbali3rrc8m8tgd5hc5l@4ax.com>, Owen Rees
> <orees@hotmail.com> writes

>> Many years ago I had a copy of the original(ish) "Adventure" (which
>> later became known as Collossal Cave to distinguish it from others of
>> the kind). It was a FORTRAN program and I was working on a FORTRAN
>> compiler at the time so the game was a test that the compiler was
>> (mostly) working. IIRC there is a similar story in "The Soul of a New
>> Machine". The first challenge was that the program had been copied
>> using a program that used a fixed size buffer (80 columns) but failed
>> to clear it before reading the next line. Some sort of shambolic
>> mismatch between fixed and variable block files probably. The result
>> was that a short line had whatever was left from previous longer lines
>> at the end. IIRC we were still using Teletype terminals - you do not
>> get the full experience with a more modern device. There was a
>> location where the full description was very long and took several
>> minutes to print. IIRC it was just called "MAGNIFICENT VIEW" on
>> subsequent visits (no lower case on those devices!).

> I remember that I first played Adventure on a DEC VAX, though on a VDU
> (as we called them then) rather than using a Teletype. I have an idea
> that all the descriptions were still in upper case, though I could be
> wrong.
>
> That was probably the second computer game I ever played, the first
> being a version of Lunar Lander on an ICL machine - I can't remember now
> whether it was a 1900 or the 2900 that superseded it. I still remember
> that if one crashed at high speed it came up with the message "The
> crater will be named after you".

I played Lunar Lander on a PDP11/GT40 (vector graphics) combo. You could
crash into (and destroy) the only McDonalds on the Moon (complete with
the Golden Arches - except they were green).

I also played Rogue (an ASCII graphics Dungeons and Dragons game) on a
VAX running Unix.

Rogue is about the only game I used to play. Plus a text Adventure game
on the BBC Micro.

--
Max Demian

On 27/09/2021 13:21, Max Demian wrote:

> Rogue is about the only game I used to play. Plus a text Adventure game
> on the BBC Micro.
>
Somewhere around I must still have the installation floppy for a game of
golf, which runs on Windows 3.1 but not on anything newer than that, and
I no longer have anything that will run 3.1 now.

It gave me a choice of 6 courses to play which were supposed to be
genuine representations of championship courses, and for each shot I
could choose which club to use, and choose strength and direction. The
random element was the deflection due to wind. It was an enjoyable way
of passing idle time but I never got anywhere near "Par".

I have never played any computer games since.

Jim

"gareth evans" <headstone255@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:siqikg$7ub$1@dont-email.me...
> On 26/09/2021 17:52, Owen Rees wrote:
>> On Sun, 26 Sep 2021 12:46:38 +0100, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
>> wrote in <sipmj1$c7c$1@gioia.aioe.org>:
>>
>>> But the ones I liked best were situation adventures from companies like
>>> Magnetic Scrolls. Some of their titles were 'The Pawn', 'Jinxster', and
>>> 'Guild Of Thieves'. In these you were given a task and an environment,
>>> and had to work out how to accomplish the task given the things you
>>> found as you moved around the environment. About 6 or 7 years back, I
>>> took someone else's slightly buggy implementation of a Magnetic Scrolls
>>> simulator in Java, completely rewrote it, and for a while had all the
>>> games working perfectly. Then a Java update broke it, and I never took
>>> the time to get it going again, perhaps partly because, curiously, I
>>> noted that I had found it perhaps even more rewarding to get all the
>>> games working than actually playing them!
>>>
>>
>> Many years ago I had a copy of the original(ish) "Adventure" (which
>> later became known as Collossal Cave to distinguish it from others of
>> the kind). It was a FORTRAN program and I was working on a FORTRAN
>> compiler at the time so the game was a test that the compiler was
>> (mostly) working. IIRC there is a similar story in "The Soul of a New
>> Machine". The first challenge was that the program had been copied using
>> a program that used a fixed size buffer (80 columns) but failed to clear
>> it before reading the next line. Some sort of shambolic mismatch between
>> fixed and variable block files probably. The result was that a short
>> line had whatever was left from previous longer lines at the end. IIRC
>> we were still using Teletype terminals - you do not get the full
>> experience with a more modern device. There was a location where the
>> full description was very long and took several minutes to print. IIRC
>> it was just called "MAGNIFICENT VIEW" on subsequent visits (no lower
>> case on those devices!).
>>
>
> XYZZY !
>

PLUGH

S

In message <siscvo$1e3u$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Max Demian
<max_demian@bigfoot.com> writes
>On 26/09/2021 18:05, John Hall wrote:
>> In message <kh81lgtjd962vfmbali3rrc8m8tgd5hc5l@4ax.com>, Owen Rees
>><orees@hotmail.com> writes
>
>>> Many years ago I had a copy of the original(ish) "Adventure" (which
>>>later became known as Collossal Cave to distinguish it from others of
>>>the kind). It was a FORTRAN program and I was working on a FORTRAN
>>>compiler at the time so the game was a test that the compiler was
>>>(mostly) working. IIRC there is a similar story in "The Soul of a New
>>>Machine". The first challenge was that the program had been copied
>>>using a program that used a fixed size buffer (80 columns) but failed
>>>to clear it before reading the next line. Some sort of shambolic
>>>mismatch between fixed and variable block files probably. The result
>>>was that a short line had whatever was left from previous longer
>>>lines at the end. IIRC we were still using Teletype terminals - you
>>>do not get the full experience with a more modern device. There was
>>>a location where the full description was very long and took several
>>>minutes to print. IIRC it was just called "MAGNIFICENT VIEW" on
>>>subsequent visits (no lower case on those devices!).
>
>> I remember that I first played Adventure on a DEC VAX, though on a
>>VDU (as we called them then) rather than using a Teletype. I have an
>>idea that all the descriptions were still in upper case, though I
>>could be wrong.
>> That was probably the second computer game I ever played, the first
>>being a version of Lunar Lander on an ICL machine - I can't remember
>>now whether it was a 1900 or the 2900 that superseded it. I still
>>remember that if one crashed at high speed it came up with the
>>message "The crater will be named after you".
>
>I played Lunar Lander on a PDP11/GT40 (vector graphics) combo. You
>could crash into (and destroy) the only McDonalds on the Moon (complete
>with the Golden Arches - except they were green).
>
>I also played Rogue (an ASCII graphics Dungeons and Dragons game) on a
>VAX running Unix.

I've not played Rogue, but I used to play the PC version of Hack (then
renamed Nethack) a lot, and still do so every now and then. I understand
that Hack and Rogue are very similar.

>
>Rogue is about the only game I used to play. Plus a text Adventure game
>on the BBC Micro.
>

Ah, yes, I used to play a lot of text adventures on my Beeb. In fact
they probably preceded my first encounter with Adventure with a capital
A.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

On 16:53 16 Sep 2021, Davey said:
>
> Fran Unsworth, the departing head of BBC News, stated:
>
> "BBC News has to be impartial and independent. BBC journalists are
> hired from a variety of different backgrounds, but while working at the
> BBC, they leave any personal opinions at the door."
>
> I guess she has never seen a report by Laura Kuenssberg, then. And
> Peston was as bad when he worked for the Beeb.

What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?

On 10:15 22 Sep 2021, Jim Lesurf said:

> In article <596f71819bcharles@candehope.me.uk>, charles
> <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>
>> I saw the letter that Sinclair wrote to the BBC on this subject. He
>> said the BBC spcoification for the BBC Micro, and in particular BBC
>> Basic, was totally wrong. He would, however, allow the BBC to put
>> their name on one of his machines. I, also, knew the chap who got
>> paid a significant sum by Sinclair to make BBC Baisic fit his ZX81
>> (I think) laptop.
>
> Uncle Clive had some excellent ideas, but suffered from a tendency
> to impliment them poorly. e.g. his liking for 'cheap' components to
> save money... leading to product unreliability or bothersome
> behaviour.[1]
>
> And his competing computer to the Acorn Micro lacked the interfacing
> features the BBC wanted to allow users to *use* the 'BBC Computer'
> as per the broadcasts.
>
> [1] The main example of this I experienced was with the '2000' amp.
> This issued sparks from around its power on/off button when that was
> operated. And the output transistors on the back of the metal case
> weren't insulated on top. i.e. live to touch. Not a good idea.
>
> Jim

I wonder if blame should be aimed at Sinclair's marketing department (who
seemed divorced from technical reality) rather than its engineers and
developers?

On 27/09/2021 21:49, Pamela wrote:
>
> On 16:53 16 Sep 2021, Davey said:
>>
>> Fran Unsworth, the departing head of BBC News, stated:
>>
>> "BBC News has to be impartial and independent. BBC journalists are
>> hired from a variety of different backgrounds, but while working at the
>> BBC, they leave any personal opinions at the door."
>>
>> I guess she has never seen a report by Laura Kuenssberg, then. And
>> Peston was as bad when he worked for the Beeb.
>
> What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?

Simply that she works for the BBC, and there are quite a lot of bigoted
right-wingers here who don't like the BBC and never pass up a chance to
moan about them.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 27/09/2021 10:37 pm, Java Jive wrote:

> On 27/09/2021 21:49, Pamela wrote:
>> On 16:53  16 Sep 2021, Davey said:

>>> Fran Unsworth, the departing head of BBC News, stated:

>>> "BBC News has to be impartial and independent. BBC journalists are
>>> hired from a variety of different backgrounds, but while working at the
>>> BBC, they leave any personal opinions at the door."

>>> I guess she has never seen a report by Laura Kuenssberg, then. And
>>> Peston was as bad when he worked for the Beeb.
>
>> What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?
>
> Simply that she works for the BBC, and there are quite a lot of bigoted
> right-wingers here who don't like the BBC and never pass up a chance to
> moan about them.

I don't think I have ever heard any right-wing criticism of LK, which is
only as it should be, given that she is nearer to being neutral than any
modern-era BBC journalist has ever been.

Such criticism as I *have* seen of her always comes from a left
perspective, complaining that she is biased to the right.

On 27/09/2021 23:00, JNugent wrote:
> On 27/09/2021 10:37 pm, Java Jive wrote:
>
>> On 27/09/2021 21:49, Pamela wrote:
>>> On 16:53  16 Sep 2021, Davey said:
>
>>>> Fran Unsworth, the departing head of BBC News, stated:
>
>>>> "BBC News has to be impartial and independent. BBC journalists are
>>>> hired from a variety of different backgrounds, but while working at the
>>>> BBC, they leave any personal opinions at the door."
>
>>>> I guess she has never seen a report by Laura Kuenssberg, then. And
>>>> Peston was as bad when he worked for the Beeb.
>>
>>> What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?
>>
>> Simply that she works for the BBC, and there are quite a lot of
>> bigoted right-wingers here who don't like the BBC and never pass up a
>> chance to moan about them.
>
> I don't think I have ever heard any right-wing criticism of LK, which is
> only as it should be, given that she is nearer to being neutral than any
> modern-era BBC journalist has ever been.

You haven't been here very long ...

https://groups.google.com/g/uk.tech.digital-tv/c/h25-CvBAoYE/m/sRx_LcANCgAJ

That's all I could find, but I know very well there have been others
more recently, but probably you know already that searching ngs online
often fails to find what you remember, and that Chunderbird's search
engine is almost useless, either not finding what you want, or finding
so many irrelevant hits that you can't find the needle in the haystack.

> Such criticism as I *have* seen of her always comes from a left
> perspective, complaining that she is biased to the right.

Which taken together with the criticism from the right probably shows
that she's acceptably centrist.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 28/09/2021 00:20, Java Jive wrote:

> https://groups.google.com/g/uk.tech.digital-tv/c/h25-CvBAoYE/m/sRx_LcANCgAJ
>
> That's all I could find, but I know very well there have been others
> more recently, but probably you know already that searching ngs online
> often fails to find what you remember, and that Chunderbird's search
> engine is almost useless, either not finding what you want, or finding
> so many irrelevant hits that you can't find the needle in the haystack.

Can't say that I have a problem with it. I have around 12000 emails and
13500 posts in local storage, and *IF* I remember the right parameters,
such as word and date range, it usually turns up with what I was after.

It's not so good with online searching; the messages/posts really have
to be downloaded and read offline for the search function to work other
than in the most cursory manner.

--

Jeff

On 27/09/2021 21:51, Pamela wrote:
> On 10:15 22 Sep 2021, Jim Lesurf said:
>
>> In article <596f71819bcharles@candehope.me.uk>, charles
>> <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I saw the letter that Sinclair wrote to the BBC on this subject. He
>>> said the BBC spcoification for the BBC Micro, and in particular BBC
>>> Basic, was totally wrong. He would, however, allow the BBC to put
>>> their name on one of his machines. I, also, knew the chap who got
>>> paid a significant sum by Sinclair to make BBC Baisic fit his ZX81
>>> (I think) laptop.
>>
>> Uncle Clive had some excellent ideas, but suffered from a tendency
>> to impliment them poorly. e.g. his liking for 'cheap' components to
>> save money... leading to product unreliability or bothersome
>> behaviour.[1]
>>
>> And his competing computer to the Acorn Micro lacked the interfacing
>> features the BBC wanted to allow users to *use* the 'BBC Computer'
>> as per the broadcasts.
>>
>> [1] The main example of this I experienced was with the '2000' amp.
>> This issued sparks from around its power on/off button when that was
>> operated. And the output transistors on the back of the metal case
>> weren't insulated on top. i.e. live to touch. Not a good idea.
>>
>> Jim
>
> I wonder if blame should be aimed at Sinclair's marketing department (who
> seemed divorced from technical reality) rather than its engineers and
> developers?
>
You are correct with one important addition. For many years Sinclair
<was> the marketing department and even by the time of the micros he
ruthlessly controlled it. If you have time you might find this BBC play
from 2009 of interest
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBxV6-zamM

It is much more than a work of fiction and highlights Sinclair's
obsession with external design, price and marketing. There is a nice
comparison between his concern over how the case of his BBC machine
would look and the Acorn guys concentrating on the performance of their
offering.

On 28/09/2021 09:56, Jeff Layman wrote:
> Can't

I am flabbergasted by such a statistic, for emails and Usenet
posts are like verbal conversations, of ephemeral interest and
soon forgotten. I delete all emails and usenet posts after
reading them unless an email has something of long term
relevance, such as my log on details for McAfee.

> say that I have a problem with it. I have around 12000 emails and
> 13500 posts in local storage, and *IF* I remember the right parameters,
> such as word and date range, it usually turns up with what I was after.

On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 21:51:33 +0100, Pamela
<pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

>On 10:15 22 Sep 2021, Jim Lesurf said:
>
>> In article <596f71819bcharles@candehope.me.uk>, charles
>> <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> I saw the letter that Sinclair wrote to the BBC on this subject. He
>>> said the BBC spcoification for the BBC Micro, and in particular BBC
>>> Basic, was totally wrong. He would, however, allow the BBC to put
>>> their name on one of his machines. I, also, knew the chap who got
>>> paid a significant sum by Sinclair to make BBC Baisic fit his ZX81
>>> (I think) laptop.
>>
>> Uncle Clive had some excellent ideas, but suffered from a tendency
>> to impliment them poorly. e.g. his liking for 'cheap' components to
>> save money... leading to product unreliability or bothersome
>> behaviour.[1]
>>
>> And his competing computer to the Acorn Micro lacked the interfacing
>> features the BBC wanted to allow users to *use* the 'BBC Computer'
>> as per the broadcasts.
>>
>> [1] The main example of this I experienced was with the '2000' amp.
>> This issued sparks from around its power on/off button when that was
>> operated. And the output transistors on the back of the metal case
>> weren't insulated on top. i.e. live to touch. Not a good idea.
>>
>> Jim
>
>I wonder if blame should be aimed at Sinclair's marketing department (who
>seemed divorced from technical reality) rather than its engineers and
>developers?

No. Marketing did a fine job of advertising the goods, and the designs
themselves were generally innovative. It was the practical
implementation of them that was usually terrible. Cheap flimsy plastic
cases, compression trimmers as the main tuning control for radios,
inadequate heatsinks, PCB connectors that were tinned rather than gold
plated, cheap shoddy components generally. Most of Sinclair's designs
would have worked a lot better if they'd been properly built, as many
discovered after building the ZX81 computer into sturdy cases with
real keyboards and properly designed power supplies, with the memory
expansion pack connected by soldered wires instead of that awful edge
connector.

However, cheap and shoddy also means affordable, which for many
probably meant the difference between buying something or not having
it at all, which in the case of the calculators and computers probably
inspired more progress than they achieved themselves.

Rod.