On 28/09/2021 10:54, gareth evans wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 09:56, Jeff Layman wrote:
>> Can't
>
> I am flabbergasted by such a statistic, for emails and Usenet
> posts are like verbal conversations, of ephemeral interest and
> soon forgotten. I delete all emails and usenet posts after
> reading them unless an email has something of long term
> relevance, such as my log on details for McAfee.
>
>> say that I have a problem with it. I have around 12000 emails and
>> 13500 posts in local storage, and *IF* I remember the right parameters,
>> such as word and date range, it usually turns up with what I was after.

Your ephemera, my memories. Why do people keep old diaries? Why do they
keep old photos? Storage is cheap and easy.

Several times I've accessed old posts/emails when something has come up
which I know I've seen before. I even had an old friend who had lost
contact for 15 years email me, and I was able to tell him what our last
email conversations had been about.

--

Jeff

On 27/09/2021 21:49, Pamela wrote:

>
> What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?
>

She's made the mistake of allowing her leftist bias to be visible.

Bill

On 28/09/2021 11:15, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 21:51:33 +0100, Pamela
> <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On 10:15 22 Sep 2021, Jim Lesurf said:
>>
>>> In article <596f71819bcharles@candehope.me.uk>, charles
>>> <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I saw the letter that Sinclair wrote to the BBC on this subject. He
>>>> said the BBC spcoification for the BBC Micro, and in particular BBC
>>>> Basic, was totally wrong. He would, however, allow the BBC to put
>>>> their name on one of his machines. I, also, knew the chap who got
>>>> paid a significant sum by Sinclair to make BBC Baisic fit his ZX81
>>>> (I think) laptop.
>>>
>>> Uncle Clive had some excellent ideas, but suffered from a tendency
>>> to impliment them poorly. e.g. his liking for 'cheap' components to
>>> save money... leading to product unreliability or bothersome
>>> behaviour.[1]
>>>
>>> And his competing computer to the Acorn Micro lacked the interfacing
>>> features the BBC wanted to allow users to *use* the 'BBC Computer'
>>> as per the broadcasts.
>>>
>>> [1] The main example of this I experienced was with the '2000' amp.
>>> This issued sparks from around its power on/off button when that was
>>> operated. And the output transistors on the back of the metal case
>>> weren't insulated on top. i.e. live to touch. Not a good idea.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>
>> I wonder if blame should be aimed at Sinclair's marketing department (who
>> seemed divorced from technical reality) rather than its engineers and
>> developers?
>
> No. Marketing did a fine job of advertising the goods, and the designs
> themselves were generally innovative. It was the practical
> implementation of them that was usually terrible. Cheap flimsy plastic
> cases, compression trimmers as the main tuning control for radios,
> inadequate heatsinks, PCB connectors that were tinned rather than gold
> plated, cheap shoddy components generally. Most of Sinclair's designs
> would have worked a lot better if they'd been properly built, as many
> discovered after building the ZX81 computer into sturdy cases with
> real keyboards and properly designed power supplies, with the memory
> expansion pack connected by soldered wires instead of that awful edge
> connector.
>
> However, cheap and shoddy also means affordable, which for many
> probably meant the difference between buying something or not having
> it at all, which in the case of the calculators and computers probably
> inspired more progress than they achieved themselves.
>
> Rod.
>
Not sure if you intended it but you have done an excellent job of
summing up Sinclair who alone drove the direction of all his companies.

Sinclair was not a genius inventor. He was a consummate marketeer who
was obsessed with selling products which were tiny, looked attractive
and sold for the lowest possible cost. As a result most were shoddy,
unreliable and advertised long before (if ever) they were ready for sale.

In article <irg9gsF6umiU1@mid.individual.net>,
williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
> On 27/09/2021 21:49, Pamela wrote:

> >
> > What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?
> >

> She's made the mistake of allowing her leftist bias to be visible.

> Bill

She can't be 'leftist'. Her father was in my brother's class at school.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 28/09/2021 12:20 am, Java Jive wrote:
> On 27/09/2021 23:00, JNugent wrote:
>> On 27/09/2021 10:37 pm, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/09/2021 21:49, Pamela wrote:
>>>> On 16:53  16 Sep 2021, Davey said:
>>
>>>>> Fran Unsworth, the departing head of BBC News, stated:
>>
>>>>> "BBC News has to be impartial and independent. BBC journalists are
>>>>> hired from a variety of different backgrounds, but while working at
>>>>> the
>>>>> BBC, they leave any personal opinions at the door."
>>
>>>>> I guess she has never seen a report by Laura Kuenssberg, then. And
>>>>> Peston was as bad when he worked for the Beeb.
>>>
>>>> What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?
>>>
>>> Simply that she works for the BBC, and there are quite a lot of
>>> bigoted right-wingers here who don't like the BBC and never pass up a
>>> chance to moan about them.
>>
>> I don't think I have ever heard any right-wing criticism of LK, which
>> is only as it should be, given that she is nearer to being neutral
>> than any modern-era BBC journalist has ever been.
>
> You haven't been here very long ...
>
> https://groups.google.com/g/uk.tech.digital-tv/c/h25-CvBAoYE/m/sRx_LcANCgAJ
>
> That's all I could find, but I know very well there have been others
> more recently, but probably you know already that searching ngs online
> often fails to find what you remember, and that Chunderbird's search
> engine is almost useless, either not finding what you want, or finding
> so many irrelevant hits that you can't find the needle in the haystack.

I would never search newsgroups for general information.
>
>> Such criticism as I *have* seen of her always comes from a left
>> perspective, complaining that she is biased to the right.
>
> Which taken together with the criticism from the right probably shows
> that she's acceptably centrist.

I had formed that opinion just from listening to her. All BBC and ITN
journalists (including those on C4 news) should be like LK.

But they're not.

On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:21:40 +0100, Jeff Layman
<jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:

>I even had an old friend who had lost
>contact for 15 years email me, and I was able to tell him what our last
>email conversations had been about.

Did he appreciate this?

Rod.

On 10:16 28 Sep 2021, MikeS said:

> On 27/09/2021 21:51, Pamela wrote:
>> On 10:15 22 Sep 2021, Jim Lesurf said:
>>
>>> In article <596f71819bcharles@candehope.me.uk>, charles
>>> <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I saw the letter that Sinclair wrote to the BBC on this subject.
>>>> He said the BBC spcoification for the BBC Micro, and in
>>>> particular BBC Basic, was totally wrong. He would, however, allow
>>>> the BBC to put their name on one of his machines. I, also, knew
>>>> the chap who got paid a significant sum by Sinclair to make BBC
>>>> Baisic fit his ZX81 (I think) laptop.
>>>
>>> Uncle Clive had some excellent ideas, but suffered from a tendency
>>> to impliment them poorly. e.g. his liking for 'cheap' components
>>> to save money... leading to product unreliability or bothersome
>>> behaviour.[1]
>>>
>>> And his competing computer to the Acorn Micro lacked the
>>> interfacing features the BBC wanted to allow users to *use* the
>>> 'BBC Computer' as per the broadcasts.
>>>
>>> [1] The main example of this I experienced was with the '2000'
>>> amp. This issued sparks from around its power on/off button when
>>> that was operated. And the output transistors on the back of the
>>> metal case weren't insulated on top. i.e. live to touch. Not a
>>> good idea.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>
>> I wonder if blame should be aimed at Sinclair's marketing
>> department (who seemed divorced from technical reality) rather than
>> its engineers and developers?
>>
> You are correct with one important addition. For many years Sinclair
> <was> the marketing department and even by the time of the micros he
> ruthlessly controlled it. If you have time you might find this BBC
> play from 2009 of interest
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXBxV6-zamM
>
> It is much more than a work of fiction and highlights Sinclair's
> obsession with external design, price and marketing. There is a nice
> comparison between his concern over how the case of his BBC machine
> would look and the Acorn guys concentrating on the performance of
> their offering.

I was trying to understand how you can sell amplifiers by specifying
peak power to a technical audience who would instantly know better
than to rely on that.

The video is a bit long at 90 minutes but thanks anyway.

On 28/09/2021 11:36, williamwright wrote:
>
> On 27/09/2021 21:49, Pamela wrote:
>>
>> What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?
>
> She's made the mistake of allowing her leftist bias to be visible.

If you're saying that, it means that she is indeed centrist and
relatively unbiased.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 28/09/2021 11:59, charles wrote:
> In article <irg9gsF6umiU1@mid.individual.net>,
> williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
>> On 27/09/2021 21:49, Pamela wrote:
>
>>>
>>> What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?
>>>
>
>> She's made the mistake of allowing her leftist bias to be visible.
>
>> Bill
>
> She can't be 'leftist'. Her father was in my brother's class at school.
>
You surprise me Charles. I would never have thought your dad attended
Bash Street Comp.

Bill

On 28/09/2021 13:28, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 11:21:40 +0100, Jeff Layman
> <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I even had an old friend who had lost
>> contact for 15 years email me, and I was able to tell him what our last
>> email conversations had been about.
>
> Did he appreciate this?

He did. We discussed the last time he was in the UK (he is Japanese).

--

Jeff

On 28/09/2021 09:56, Jeff Layman wrote:
>
> On 28/09/2021 00:20, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> https://groups.google.com/g/uk.tech.digital-tv/c/h25-CvBAoYE/m/sRx_LcANCgAJ
>>
>> That's all I could find, but I know very well there have been others
>> more recently, but probably you know already that searching ngs online
>> often fails to find what you remember, and that Chunderbird's search
>> engine is almost useless, either not finding what you want, or finding
>> so many irrelevant hits that you can't find the needle in the haystack.
>
> Can't say that I have a problem with it. I have around 12000 emails and
> 13500 posts in local storage, and *IF* I remember the right parameters,
> such as word and date range, it usually turns up with what I was after.

That's not my experience with it all. There are various internet
standard searching techniques that really it should support but doesn't,
for example the use of a plus sign to signify that the following word
MUST occur in the results, or a star to signify a wild-card, that it
seems to ignore.

But the main problem seems to be that it's OR rather than AND based, so
the more terms you put in to try to narrow down the search, the more
irrelevant the majority of the results become. Therefore, if there
doesn't happen to be one single word, or at very most two, that will
find what you're looking for within a reasonable number of irrelevant
results, you're stuffed. Also, as above, it seems to ignore wildcards
that you've specifically typed, but adds unwanted word variants without
you asking it to, so if you're looking, say, specifically for the word
'filtered', it will also find hundreds of irrelevant, to you, hits based
on 'filter', 'filters', 'spam-filter', etc, which swamp the results,
making the one you want, if it should even be there, unnecessarily
tedious to find.

It's so bad that often I find using Google, not another search engine,
to search for something like ...
"google groups" "uk.tech.digital-tv" "Java Jive" <sought word>
.... can sometimes actually find what I'm after quicker than searching my
own sent mails in Thunderbird!

Like the software on EE's site that formerly filled in your address from
your postcode, but if you now have no housename, left the old one in
place rather than deleting it, so your new address became a conflation
of old and new that confused local postal staff, it's a classic example
of badly written software surrounding you with supposed helpfulness that
actually just hampers, sometimes even cripples, an intelligent person's
use of it.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

On 28/09/2021 20:59, Java Jive wrote:
> On 28/09/2021 09:56, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>
>> On 28/09/2021 00:20, Java Jive wrote:
>>>
>>> https://groups.google.com/g/uk.tech.digital-tv/c/h25-CvBAoYE/m/sRx_LcANCgAJ
>>>
>>> That's all I could find, but I know very well there have been others
>>> more recently, but probably you know already that searching ngs online
>>> often fails to find what you remember, and that Chunderbird's search
>>> engine is almost useless, either not finding what you want, or finding
>>> so many irrelevant hits that you can't find the needle in the haystack.
>>
>> Can't say that I have a problem with it. I have around 12000 emails and
>> 13500 posts in local storage, and *IF* I remember the right parameters,
>> such as word and date range, it usually turns up with what I was after.
>
> That's not my experience with it all. There are various internet
> standard searching techniques that really it should support but doesn't,
> for example the use of a plus sign to signify that the following word
> MUST occur in the results, or a star to signify a wild-card, that it
> seems to ignore.
>
> But the main problem seems to be that it's OR rather than AND based, so
> the more terms you put in to try to narrow down the search, the more
> irrelevant the majority of the results become.

I don't understand that. The "Search Messages" window gives equal weight
to both. The first option you can select is "Match all of the following"
(ie "AND"), and next to it is "Match any of the following" (ie "OR"). I
know you can't mix them as those selections are radio buttons, which is
somewhat limiting, but why do you say it is "OR" based rather than "AND"
based?

Are you using "Indexing - Enable Global Search and Indexer" or are using
using right-click on a folder and "Search Messages"? I use only the
latter and don't have the global indexer box ticked. Or are you using
the "Quick filter" toolbar?

Therefore, if there
> doesn't happen to be one single word, or at very most two, that will
> find what you're looking for within a reasonable number of irrelevant
> results, you're stuffed. Also, as above, it seems to ignore wildcards
> that you've specifically typed, but adds unwanted word variants without
> you asking it to, so if you're looking, say, specifically for the word
> 'filtered', it will also find hundreds of irrelevant, to you, hits based
> on 'filter', 'filters', 'spam-filter', etc, which swamp the results,
> making the one you want, if it should even be there, unnecessarily
> tedious to find.

That shouldn't happen. If you had "filtered" as the word to find, it
shouldn't find "filter", "filters", or "spam-filter". Not sure what's
going on there. That sounds more like a Google search finding
closely-related words.
> It's so bad that often I find using Google, not another search engine,
> to search for something like ...
> "google groups" "uk.tech.digital-tv" "Java Jive" <sought word>
> ... can sometimes actually find what I'm after quicker than searching my
> own sent mails in Thunderbird!
>
> Like the software on EE's site that formerly filled in your address from
> your postcode, but if you now have no housename, left the old one in
> place rather than deleting it, so your new address became a conflation
> of old and new that confused local postal staff, it's a classic example
> of badly written software surrounding you with supposed helpfulness that
> actually just hampers, sometimes even cripples, an intelligent person's
> use of it.

I have been having a crazy experience with Vodafone I got different
results depending on whether I was logged in with the app on my
smartphone, of via my laptop's browser using Vodafone's login page. That
was with identical usernames and passwords! Looks like all these
companies are as bad as each other.

--

Jeff

On 28/09/2021 22:34, Jeff Layman wrote:
>
> On 28/09/2021 20:59, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> On 28/09/2021 09:56, Jeff Layman wrote:
>>>
>>> On 28/09/2021 00:20, Java Jive wrote:
>>>>
>>>> https://groups.google.com/g/uk.tech.digital-tv/c/h25-CvBAoYE/m/sRx_LcANCgAJ
>>>>
>>>> That's all I could find, but I know very well there have been others
>>>> more recently, but probably you know already that searching ngs online
>>>> often fails to find what you remember, and that Chunderbird's search
>>>> engine is almost useless, either not finding what you want, or finding
>>>> so many irrelevant hits that you can't find the needle in the haystack.
>>>
>>> Can't say that I have a problem with it. I have around 12000 emails and
>>> 13500 posts in local storage, and *IF* I remember the right parameters,
>>> such as word and date range, it usually turns up with what I was after.
>>
>> That's not my experience with it all.  There are various internet
>> standard searching techniques that really it should support but doesn't,
>> for example the use of a plus sign to signify that the following word
>> MUST occur in the results, or a star to signify a wild-card, that it
>> seems to ignore.
>>
>> But the main problem seems to be that it's OR rather than AND based, so
>> the more terms you put in to try to narrow down the search, the more
>> irrelevant the majority of the results become.
>
> I don't understand that. The "Search Messages" window gives equal weight
> to both. The first option you can select is "Match all of the following"
> (ie "AND"), and next to it is "Match any of the following" (ie "OR"). I
> know you can't mix them as those selections are radio buttons, which is
> somewhat limiting, but why do you say it is "OR" based rather than "AND"
> based?

One doesn't normally go looking for a second way to do something when
there is an obvious one already visible, so, not knowing that you could
rt-click a folder to search it, I was clicking on my Sent folder, and
typing <Ctrl-K> to take me to the search bar, and typing what to search
for in there.

So thank you for telling me that, but, in this case, the new method
didn't find the other reference to Laura Kuenssberg that I thought was
there either - I vaguely remember the context, but either I snipped
that bit in my reply, or I didn't bother to answer it at the time.

> Therefore, if there
>> doesn't happen to be one single word, or at very most two, that will
>> find what you're looking for within a reasonable number of irrelevant
>> results, you're stuffed.  Also, as above, it seems to ignore wildcards
>> that you've specifically typed, but adds unwanted word variants without
>> you asking it to, so if you're looking, say, specifically for the word
>> 'filtered', it will also find hundreds of irrelevant, to you, hits based
>> on 'filter', 'filters', 'spam-filter', etc, which swamp the results,
>> making the one you want, if it should even be there, unnecessarily
>> tedious to find.
>
> That shouldn't happen. If you had "filtered" as the word to find, it
> shouldn't find "filter", "filters", or "spam-filter". Not sure what's
> going on there. That sounds more like a Google search finding
> closely-related words.

See above.

>> It's so bad that often I find using Google, not another search engine,
>> to search for something like ...
>>     "google groups" "uk.tech.digital-tv" "Java Jive" <sought word>
>> ... can sometimes actually find what I'm after quicker than searching my
>> own sent mails in Thunderbird!
>>
>> Like the software on EE's site that formerly filled in your address from
>> your postcode, but if you now have no housename, left the old one in
>> place rather than deleting it, so your new address became a conflation
>> of old and new that confused local postal staff, it's a classic example
>> of badly written software surrounding you with supposed helpfulness that
>> actually just hampers, sometimes even cripples, an intelligent person's
>> use of it.
>
> I have been having a crazy experience with Vodafone  I got different
> results depending on whether I was logged in with the app on my
> smartphone, of via my laptop's browser using Vodafone's login page. That
> was with identical usernames and passwords! Looks like all these
> companies are as bad as each other.

Probably something to do with the difference between desktop and mobile
versions of webpages, though, theoretically at least, that shouldn't
alter actual data, only the way it is presented. On most mobile
browsers, somewhere in the settings you can demand the desktop version
of a given webpage. You could try seeing if that makes the two appear
the same.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

In article <XnsADB2DE5D1625C37B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela
<pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Uncle Clive had some excellent ideas, but suffered from a tendency to
> > impliment them poorly. e.g. his liking for 'cheap' components to save
> > money... leading to product unreliability or bothersome behaviour.[1]
> >
> > And his competing computer to the Acorn Micro lacked the interfacing
> > features the BBC wanted to allow users to *use* the 'BBC Computer' as
> > per the broadcasts.
> >
> > [1] The main example of this I experienced was with the '2000' amp.
> > This issued sparks from around its power on/off button when that was
> > operated. And the output transistors on the back of the metal case
> > weren't insulated on top. i.e. live to touch. Not a good idea.
> >
> > Jim

> I wonder if blame should be aimed at Sinclair's marketing department
> (who seemed divorced from technical reality) rather than its engineers
> and developers?

I know someone who worked for him. It wasn't his engineers or his
'marketing dept'. It was Uncle Clive. Too obsessed with the cheapest
possible cost and the fastest possible production to market.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <sitdiu$1pi1$2@gioia.aioe.org>, Java Jive
<java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> >
> > What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?

> Simply that she works for the BBC, and there are quite a lot of bigoted
> right-wingers here who don't like the BBC and never pass up a chance to
> moan about them.

Interesting that various left wingers also moan about her.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <sitjka$1vou$1@gioia.aioe.org>, Java Jive
<java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

> You haven't been here very long ...

> https://groups.google.com/g/uk.tech.digital-tv/c/h25-CvBAoYE/m/sRx_LcANCgAJ

> That's all I could find, but I know very well there have been others
> more recently, but probably you know already that searching ngs online
> often fails to find what you remember, and that Chunderbird's search
> engine is almost useless, either not finding what you want, or finding
> so many irrelevant hits that you can't find the needle in the haystack.

> > Such criticism as I *have* seen of her always comes from a left
> > perspective, complaining that she is biased to the right.

> Which taken together with the criticism from the right probably shows
> that she's acceptably centrist.

I must admit I don't see her comments very often, but I suspect you're
correct. It was interesting trying to read the expressions of both people
when she interviewed Cummings a while ago. 8-]

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

In article <irhah6Fd88jU1@mid.individual.net>, Java Jive
<jave@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> That's not my experience with it all. There are various internet
> standard searching techniques that really it should support but doesn't,
> for example the use of a plus sign to signify that the following word
> MUST occur in the results, or a star to signify a wild-card, that it
> seems to ignore.

I suspect you'd fall in love with !Pluto. :-)

I have copies of all my emails back to the 1990s. Also many newspostings.
!Pluto lets m,e search the lot. Very handy when I was writing my 'biog' of
the past. Whereas for much earlier I needed to find paper documents, etc.

That said, I've just done
http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/EclipseDocs/EclipseDocuments.html

because somone in France wanted more info. This has also prompted me to
have a go at re-examining the Eclipse Flight data recording we made. It
should be possible now to get a lot more detail from it than was managed in
1973! But for the old paper documents I have to rely on a scanner, and
many of the documents are now fairly scrappy.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 28/09/2021 10:08 am, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> In article <sitdiu$1pi1$2@gioia.aioe.org>, Java Jive
> <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>> What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?
>
>> Simply that she works for the BBC, and there are quite a lot of bigoted
>> right-wingers here who don't like the BBC and never pass up a chance to
>> moan about them.
>
> Interesting that various left wingers also moan about her.

My point exactly.

AAMOF, it's *usually* the left going on about her (eg, Guardian BTL).

On 29/09/2021 10:28, Jim Lesurf wrote:

>
> I suspect you'd fall in love with !Pluto. :-)

What's that? Google doesn't find "!Pluto". All it finds is Pluto TV.

--

Jeff

In article <sj27vp$o7l$1@dont-email.me>,
Jeff Layman <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 10:28, Jim Lesurf wrote:

> >
> > I suspect you'd fall in love with !Pluto. :-)

> What's that? Google doesn't find "!Pluto". All it finds is Pluto TV.

That's Google's problem.

!Pluto is a News/Mail Reader & Database for use on RISC OS

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 29/09/2021 18:49, charles wrote:
> In article <sj27vp$o7l$1@dont-email.me>,
> Jeff Layman <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> On 29/09/2021 10:28, Jim Lesurf wrote:
>
>>>
>>> I suspect you'd fall in love with !Pluto. :-)
>
>> What's that? Google doesn't find "!Pluto". All it finds is Pluto TV.
>
> That's Google's problem.
>
> !Pluto is a News/Mail Reader & Database for use on RISC OS

OK.

How do you find out about it if nobody appears to know about it? It also
doesn't appear on Wikipedia's "Pluto" disambiguation page. I assume it
comes as standard with a RISC OS install.

--

Jeff

Jeff Layman <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> On 29/09/2021 18:49, charles wrote:
> > In article <sj27vp$o7l$1@dont-email.me>,
> > Jeff Layman <jmlayman@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> >> On 29/09/2021 10:28, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>> I suspect you'd fall in love with !Pluto. :-)
> >
> >> What's that? Google doesn't find "!Pluto". All it finds is Pluto TV.
> >
> > That's Google's problem.
> >
> > !Pluto is a News/Mail Reader & Database for use on RISC OS
>
> OK.
>
> How do you find out about it if nobody appears to know about it? It also
> doesn't appear on Wikipedia's "Pluto" disambiguation page. I assume it
> comes as standard with a RISC OS install.
>

I guess the [!] is throwing the search engine off, try a literal search.
Actually, here you go: "!pluto" RISC OS yields:

<http://www.avisoft.f9.co.uk/pluto/index.htm>

HTH

--
^Ï^ <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>

My pet rock Gordon just is.

JNugent <jennings&co@fastmail.fm> wrote:

> On 28/09/2021 10:08 am, Jim Lesurf wrote:
> > In article <sitdiu$1pi1$2@gioia.aioe.org>, Java Jive
> > <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> What's the gripe with Laura Kuenssberg?
> >
> >> Simply that she works for the BBC, and there are quite a lot of bigoted
> >> right-wingers here who don't like the BBC and never pass up a chance to
> >> moan about them.
> >
> > Interesting that various left wingers also moan about her.
>
> My point exactly.
>
> AAMOF, it's *usually* the left going on about her (eg, Guardian BTL).

As a "centrist", my dislike of LK is her haranguing, interrupting style
of interviewing, similar to that of the loathsome John Humphrys.

I cannot stomach BBC current affairs programmes these days, I've
ditched them altogether.

--
^Ï^ <https://youtu.be/_kqytf31a8E>

My pet rock Gordon just is.

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 21:40:28 +0100
snipeco.2@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

> As a "centrist", my dislike of LK is her haranguing, interrupting
> style of interviewing, similar to that of the loathsome John
> Humphrys.

To me, she seems unable to accept the replies she hears from her
interviewees, and then interrupts some more to try to get a different
answer.

--
Davey.

On 20/09/2021 21:38, Vir Campestris wrote:
> I was thinking that this morning.
>
> **** all about Clive Sinclair on the BBC, even though he introduced
> millions of people to computers. (and how to fix them!)
>
> But a damn great long article about some footballer who died.
>
> The trouble is I suspect that the people making the decisions identify
> more with entertainers than engineers.

I agree. Who cares about some footballer.

But at the same time I feel I must point out that pretty much everything
Sinclair ever produced was more trouble than it was worth.

I soooo glad I got an Oric 1 instead of the ZX Spectrum.

--
Brian Gregory (in England).