On 29/03/2022 16:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 10:17:53 +0100
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t1ug2j$efu$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:30:11 on Tue, 29 Mar
>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 08:56:07 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t1t6f1$81d$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:39:28 on Mon, 28 Mar
>>>> 2022, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>>>> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>> news:jae8fhF567eU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Geoff Marshall reviews the mock up:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCMZqprWIU4
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I *really* don't like the small windows. Its a massive step
>>>>>>> backwards IMO and
>>>>>>> will make the trains feel claustrophobic even with the walk through now
>>>>>>> available .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Most people on the tube seem to be staring at a hand held screen
>>>>>> while they travel nowadays , they probably wouldn’t even notice if
>> the
>>>>>> windows had pretty scenes
>>>>>> done in stained glass .
>>>>>
>>>>> The crucial thing is: can a standing passenger still see the station
>>>>> name on the roundel on the station wall as a train is coming into the
>>>>> station, in case the on-board display is hidden by other passengers,
>>>>> and the train is too noisy to hear the automated voice "We are now
>>>>> arriving at King's Cross" or the passenger is deaf?
>>>>
>>>> That's an impressive confluence of edge cases.
>>>
>>> A very plausible one in the rush hour.
>>
>> Stand by the doors if you an irregular user, commuters(sic) will know
>> where they are.
>
> Not always if you're engrossed in a paper/phone/chatting.
>
>>> Though LT/TfL seem to alternate between small and large windows just as
>>> they do with door buttons which as the video points out seem to have
>>> made a return. No doubt a new generation of engineers re-inventing the
>>> mistakes of the past.
>>
>> Maybe the requirements are changing, over time, too.
>
> I don't see how. Its not as if new tunnels have been built or human anatomy
> has changed.
>

Air conditioning is new to the tube.

--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 16:25:17 +0100
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
>On 29/03/2022 16:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> Maybe the requirements are changing, over time, too.
>>
>> I don't see how. Its not as if new tunnels have been built or human anatomy
>> has changed.
>>
>
>Air conditioning is new to the tube.

Physics hasn't changed so for me the jury is still out on how well/if that'll
work. I suspect it'll just turn the stations into sweatboxes in summer without
cooling the trains all that much.

Also if they need so many pipes going up that they need that many window
pillars then they're something wrong with the systems design.

Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:

> So, we have three layers of information:
> 1) on-board display
> 2) station announcement
> 3) roundel on station wall
>
Or 4 ) The Frieze.
The roundels can be of limited use if the platform is busy as people
waiting for the train often obscure them, it is easier to look above and
read the name which is repeated far more often than the widely spaced
roundels on the frieze mounted at a higher position that runs from end to
end of the platform.
eg this one at Holland Park

<https://www.flickr.com/photos/24759744@N02/24103522326>

Some stations have some particularly neat examples incorporated into the
tiles themselves.
<https://yolph.jimdofree.com/lu-roundel/special-roundels/roundels-on-platform-friezes/

GH

In message <t1v77q$1nsv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:30 on Tue, 29 Mar
2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:

>>>Though LT/TfL seem to alternate between small and large windows just as
>>>they do with door buttons which as the video points out seem to have
>>>made a return. No doubt a new generation of engineers re-inventing the
>>>mistakes of the past.
>>
>>Maybe the requirements are changing, over time, too.
>
>I don't see how. Its not as if new tunnels have been built or human anatomy
>has changed.

There's probably more people travelling now (pre-Covid anyway).
--
Roland Perry

On 29/03/2022 17:46, Marland wrote:
> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>
>> So, we have three layers of information:
>> 1) on-board display
>> 2) station announcement
>> 3) roundel on station wall
>>
> Or 4 ) The Frieze.
> The roundels can be of limited use if the platform is busy as people
> waiting for the train often obscure them, it is easier to look above and
> read the name which is repeated far more often than the widely spaced
> roundels on the frieze mounted at a higher position that runs from end to
> end of the platform.
> eg this one at Holland Park
>
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/24759744@N02/24103522326>
>
>
> Some stations have some particularly neat examples incorporated into the
> tiles themselves.
>
> <https://yolph.jimdofree.com/lu-roundel/special-roundels/roundels-on-platform-friezes/

Those mounted at the higher position will only be useful if the windows
are tall enough for the passengers to see them from the train.

On 29/03/2022 16:25, Robin wrote:
> On 29/03/2022 16:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 10:17:53 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t1ug2j$efu$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:30:11 on Tue, 29 Mar
>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 08:56:07 +0100
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t1t6f1$81d$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:39:28 on Mon, 28 Mar
>>>>> 2022, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>>>>> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:jae8fhF567eU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>> Geoff Marshall reviews the mock up:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCMZqprWIU4
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I *really* don't like the small windows. Its a massive step
>>>>>>>> backwards IMO  and
>>>>>>>> will make the trains feel claustrophobic even with the walk
>>>>>>>> through now
>>>>>>>> available .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most people on the tube seem to be staring at a hand held screen
>>>>>>> while they travel nowadays , they probably wouldn’t even notice if
>>> the
>>>>>>> windows had pretty scenes
>>>>>>> done in stained glass .
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The crucial thing is: can a standing passenger still see the station
>>>>>> name on the roundel on the station wall as a train is coming into the
>>>>>> station, in case the on-board display is hidden by other passengers,
>>>>>> and the train is too noisy to hear the automated voice "We are now
>>>>>> arriving at King's Cross" or the passenger is deaf?
>>>>>
>>>>> That's an impressive confluence of edge cases.
>>>>
>>>> A very plausible one in the rush hour.
>>>
>>> Stand by the doors if you an irregular user, commuters(sic) will know
>>> where they are.
>>
>> Not always if you're engrossed in a paper/phone/chatting.
>>
>>>> Though LT/TfL seem to alternate between small and large windows just as
>>>> they do with door buttons which as the video points out seem to have
>>>> made a return. No doubt a new generation of engineers re-inventing the
>>>> mistakes of the past.
>>>
>>> Maybe the requirements are changing, over time, too.
>>
>> I don't see how. Its not as if new tunnels have been built or human
>> anatomy
>> has changed.
>>
>
> Air conditioning is new to the tube.
>

One thing that I don't understand is how the NT4L address the question
of heat dissipation within the tunnel. IIRC, this has always been an
issue for tube trains and the main reason why up till now there never
was air conditioning.

Having said that, I note that the cabs on 95ts have air conditioning.

On 29/03/2022 17:46, Marland wrote:
> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>
>> So, we have three layers of information:
>> 1) on-board display
>> 2) station announcement
>> 3) roundel on station wall
>>
> Or 4 ) The Frieze.
> The roundels can be of limited use if the platform is busy as people
> waiting for the train often obscure them, it is easier to look above and
> read the name which is repeated far more often than the widely spaced
> roundels on the frieze mounted at a higher position that runs from end to
> end of the platform.
> eg this one at Holland Park
>
> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/24759744@N02/24103522326>
>
> Some stations have some particularly neat examples incorporated into the
> tiles themselves.
>
> <https://yolph.jimdofree.com/lu-roundel/special-roundels/roundels-on-platform-friezes/

I remember Crossrail proudly announcing how their stations were uniform
below ground but different from each other above ground. I opined in an
earlier thread that it would be more helpful if this were reversed.
The platform needs to shout "Bond Street", because the passenger already
knows that this is a station. The entrance needs to shout "station",
because the pedestrian already knows he is walking along Bond Street.

<martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk> wrote:
> On 29/03/2022 17:46, Marland wrote:
>> Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> wrote:
>>
>>> So, we have three layers of information:
>>> 1) on-board display
>>> 2) station announcement
>>> 3) roundel on station wall
>>>
>> Or 4 ) The Frieze.
>> The roundels can be of limited use if the platform is busy as people
>> waiting for the train often obscure them, it is easier to look above and
>> read the name which is repeated far more often than the widely spaced
>> roundels on the frieze mounted at a higher position that runs from end to
>> end of the platform.
>> eg this one at Holland Park
>>
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/24759744@N02/24103522326>
>>
>>
>> Some stations have some particularly neat examples incorporated into the
>> tiles themselves.
>>
>> <https://yolph.jimdofree.com/lu-roundel/special-roundels/roundels-on-platform-friezes/
>
> Those mounted at the higher position will only be useful if the windows
> are tall enough for the passengers to see them from the train.
>
>
If passengers are eager to find out what the station is because they are
unfamiliar perhaps they can make the effort to get in a position where they
can see them, it needn’t be at 90 degrees they can look forward a bit for
a better view. Or there is the 5 th option ,look at the small name
roundels on the tunnel wall opposite the platform. If people can’t bend
their necks a bit then we might as well
get rid of windows all together and go back to car attendants shouting out
the name of each station.
Making Mountains out of Molehills comes to mind on this issue which I
suppose is apt for something in tunnels under the ground.

GH

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <nlt54h1bh97qd6m7302pin8bqleidm66b4@4ax.com>, at 13:12:13 on
>> Tue, 29 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:02:52 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <u5r54h54qf1g7lanuf1pqo1ejgu0dsbmos@4ax.com>, at 12:26:52 on
>>>> Tue, 29 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 12:21:50 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <t1un8v$c5r$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:33:03 on Tue, 29 Mar
>>>>>> 2022, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
>>>>>>> Am 29.03.2022 um 11:48 schrieb martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk:
>>>>>>>> On 29/03/2022 10:17, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In message <t1ug2j$efu$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:30:11 on Tue, 29 Mar
>>>>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 08:56:07 +0100
>>>>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> In message <t1t6f1$81d$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:39:28 on Mon, 28 Mar
>>>>>>>>>>> 2022, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>>>> news:jae8fhF567eU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Geoff Marshall reviews the mock up:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCMZqprWIU4
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I *really* don't like the small windows. Its a massive step
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> backwards IMO  and
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will make the trains feel claustrophobic even with the walk
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> through now
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> available .
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Most people on the tube seem to be staring at a hand held screen
>>>>>>>>>>>>> while they travel nowadays , they probably wouldn’t even
>>>>>>>>>>>>> notice if the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> windows had pretty scenes
>>>>>>>>>>>>> done in stained glass .
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The crucial thing is: can a standing passenger still see the station
>>>>>>>>>>>> name on the roundel on the station wall as a train is coming into the
>>>>>>>>>>>> station, in case the on-board display is hidden by other passengers,
>>>>>>>>>>>> and the train is too noisy to hear the automated voice "We are now
>>>>>>>>>>>> arriving at King's Cross" or the passenger is deaf?
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> That's an impressive confluence of edge cases.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> A very plausible one in the rush hour.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Stand by the doors if you an irregular user, commuters(sic) will
>>>>>>>>> know where they are.
>>>>>>>> Not all passengers can stand by the door.  What are you going to do
>>>>>>>> for them?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, we have three layers of information:
>>>>>>> 1) on-board display
>>>>>>> 2) station announcement
>>>>>>> 3) roundel on station wall
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As a tourist, I've always made sure that I or somebody else in my group
>>>>>>> can see the on-board display (typically counting stops on top if I was
>>>>>>> unable to understand the announcement due to noise or language
>>>>>>> problems); as a tourist, I am extremely focussed on where I am and when
>>>>>>> I have to leave the train.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The roundel is more relevant for the commuter who is absorbed by his
>>>>>>> mobile phone and sees the outside world only by the edge of his eyes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the mobile coverage in London tube tunnels has gone live
>>>>>> yet. Or if it has, I missed the hoo-ha.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I think it's some way off yet. But that doesn't stop people being
>>>>> people being buried in their (off-line) devices.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience it stops most people. What are they doing otherwise,
>>>> tidying up their contact lists?
>>>
>>> I suspect you haven't travelled much on deep underground Tube trains
>>> for years.
>>
>> During Covid, not very many people at all were!
>>
>>> People could be playing games, reading newspapers or magazines,
>>> watching a film or video, catching up on their mail, listening to a
>>> podcast, etc. Games are probably the most common activity.
>>
>> I'd get pretty bored playing games that much.
>
> As I said, you're not a typical daily Tube traveller.
>
>> Which newspapers are best
>> for downloading and reading offline?
>
> Any with an app, such as the Times and Telegraph.
>
>> I have to say my own preference is
>> to read small bits of a dozen newspapers, rather than most of just one.
>> You get a far more balanced view.
>
> Only if it's free to read. So, no Times, Telegraph or FT.
>

I wonder if having reasonably large windows helps combat motion sickness.
Being shaken about with no external cues is discomforting for some.

In message <t1v33a$b4j$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:54:50 on Tue, 29 Mar
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:

>> Which newspapers are best for downloading and reading offline?
>
>Any with an app, such as the Times and Telegraph.

I'm thinking more about the User interface than the content.

>> I have to say my own preference is to read small bits of a dozen
>>newspapers, rather than most of just one. You get a far more balanced
>>view.
>
>Only if it's free to read. So, no Times, Telegraph or FT.

Telegraph can be read free, and you can get sufficient of The Times
and FT via Google News. But if course only online. If they could adapt
their business model to accommodate those who want to live mainly
outside those publications' echo chambers, I'm sure I could find them
perhaps 1p per article. How you microbill that via a downloaded issue,
is another technical problem for them to solve.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t1v33a$b4j$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:54:50 on Tue, 29 Mar
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>>> Which newspapers are best for downloading and reading offline?
>>
>> Any with an app, such as the Times and Telegraph.
>
> I'm thinking more about the User interface than the content.
>
>>> I have to say my own preference is to read small bits of a dozen
>>> newspapers, rather than most of just one. You get a far more balanced
>>> view.
>>
>> Only if it's free to read. So, no Times, Telegraph or FT.
>
> Telegraph can be read free, and you can get sufficient of The Times
> and FT via Google News. But if course only online. If they could adapt
> their business model to accommodate those who want to live mainly
> outside those publications' echo chambers, I'm sure I could find them
> perhaps 1p per article. How you microbill that via a downloaded issue,
> is another technical problem for them to solve.

Why should a publication want to microbill? Just so you can cherry pick and
not support the costs of the whole publication. Decent journalism is
expensive.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <u5r54h54qf1g7lanuf1pqo1ejgu0dsbmos@4ax.com>, at 12:26:52 on
> Tue, 29 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 12:21:50 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <t1un8v$c5r$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:33:03 on Tue, 29 Mar
>>> 2022, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
>>>> Am 29.03.2022 um 11:48 schrieb martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk:
>>>>> On 29/03/2022 10:17, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t1ug2j$efu$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:30:11 on Tue, 29 Mar
>>>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 08:56:07 +0100
>>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>>> In message <t1t6f1$81d$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:39:28 on Mon, 28 Mar
>>>>>>>> 2022, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>>>>>>>> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>> news:jae8fhF567eU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Geoff Marshall reviews the mock up:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCMZqprWIU4
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I *really* don't like the small windows. Its a massive step
>>>>>>>>>>> backwards IMO  and
>>>>>>>>>>> will make the trains feel claustrophobic even with the walk
>>>>>>>>>>> through now
>>>>>>>>>>> available .
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Most people on the tube seem to be staring at a hand held screen
>>>>>>>>>> while they travel nowadays , they probably wouldn’t even
>>>>>>>>>> notice if the
>>>>>>>>>> windows had pretty scenes
>>>>>>>>>> done in stained glass .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The crucial thing is: can a standing passenger still see the station
>>>>>>>>> name on the roundel on the station wall as a train is coming into the
>>>>>>>>> station, in case the on-board display is hidden by other passengers,
>>>>>>>>> and the train is too noisy to hear the automated voice "We are now
>>>>>>>>> arriving at King's Cross" or the passenger is deaf?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's an impressive confluence of edge cases.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> A very plausible one in the rush hour.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Stand by the doors if you an irregular user, commuters(sic) will
>>>>>> know where they are.
>>>>> Not all passengers can stand by the door.  What are you going to do
>>>>> for them?
>>>>
>>>> So, we have three layers of information:
>>>> 1) on-board display
>>>> 2) station announcement
>>>> 3) roundel on station wall
>>>>
>>>> As a tourist, I've always made sure that I or somebody else in my group
>>>> can see the on-board display (typically counting stops on top if I was
>>>> unable to understand the announcement due to noise or language
>>>> problems); as a tourist, I am extremely focussed on where I am and when
>>>> I have to leave the train.
>>>>
>>>> The roundel is more relevant for the commuter who is absorbed by his
>>>> mobile phone and sees the outside world only by the edge of his eyes.
>>>
>>> I don't think the mobile coverage in London tube tunnels has gone live
>>> yet. Or if it has, I missed the hoo-ha.
>>
>> No, I think it's some way off yet. But that doesn't stop people being
>> people being buried in their (off-line) devices.
>
> In my experience it stops most people. What are they doing otherwise,
> tidying up their contact lists?

Games, reading stuff already downloaded, watching video already downloaded.
Edge case, reading Usenet.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <nlt54h1bh97qd6m7302pin8bqleidm66b4@4ax.com>, at 13:12:13 on
> Tue, 29 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:02:52 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <u5r54h54qf1g7lanuf1pqo1ejgu0dsbmos@4ax.com>, at 12:26:52 on
>>> Tue, 29 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 12:21:50 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <t1un8v$c5r$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:33:03 on Tue, 29 Mar
>>>>> 2022, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The roundel is more relevant for the commuter who is absorbed by his
>>>>>> mobile phone and sees the outside world only by the edge of his eyes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I don't think the mobile coverage in London tube tunnels has gone live
>>>>> yet. Or if it has, I missed the hoo-ha.
>>>>
>>>> No, I think it's some way off yet. But that doesn't stop people being
>>>> people being buried in their (off-line) devices.
>>>
>>> In my experience it stops most people. What are they doing otherwise,
>>> tidying up their contact lists?
>>
>> I suspect you haven't travelled much on deep underground Tube trains
>> for years.
>
> During Covid, not very many people at all were!
>
>> People could be playing games, reading newspapers or magazines,
>> watching a film or video, catching up on their mail, listening to a
>> podcast, etc. Games are probably the most common activity.
>
> I'd get pretty bored playing games that much.

I have a number of different games to entertain in such circumstances.
Classics like Tetris, or Plants vs Zombies; a number of word games; several
different shooting-balls-at-blocks options; and several railway games,
including a shunting puzzle and tamping!

> Which newspapers are best
> for downloading and reading offline? I have to say my own preference is
> to read small bits of a dozen newspapers, rather than most of just one.
> You get a far more balanced view.

You're permitted to have more than one newspaper downloaded to your phone
at once.

Does the Readly (?) app for magazines, discussed here in the past, allow
download for offline reading?

Also don't forget that the majority of the tube is above ground, where
connectivity is no problem.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <t1vjm7$mg3$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:00 on Tue, 29 Mar
2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t1v33a$b4j$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:54:50 on Tue, 29 Mar
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>> Which newspapers are best for downloading and reading offline?
>>>
>>> Any with an app, such as the Times and Telegraph.
>>
>> I'm thinking more about the User interface than the content.
>>
>>>> I have to say my own preference is to read small bits of a dozen
>>>> newspapers, rather than most of just one. You get a far more balanced
>>>> view.
>>>
>>> Only if it's free to read. So, no Times, Telegraph or FT.
>>
>> Telegraph can be read free, and you can get sufficient of The Times
>> and FT via Google News. But if course only online. If they could adapt
>> their business model to accommodate those who want to live mainly
>> outside those publications' echo chambers, I'm sure I could find them
>> perhaps 1p per article. How you microbill that via a downloaded issue,
>> is another technical problem for them to solve.
>
>Why should a publication want to microbill?

In order to get any revenue from one part of its readership at all.

>Just so you can cherry pick and not support the costs of the whole
>publication. Decent journalism is expensive.

Google news also cherry-picks (or as they prefer to call it "curates") a
wide range of media to individuals' needs, and the sky hasn't fallen in.
--
Roland Perry

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <nlt54h1bh97qd6m7302pin8bqleidm66b4@4ax.com>, at 13:12:13 on
>> Tue, 29 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:02:52 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <u5r54h54qf1g7lanuf1pqo1ejgu0dsbmos@4ax.com>, at 12:26:52 on
>>>> Tue, 29 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 12:21:50 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <t1un8v$c5r$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:33:03 on Tue, 29 Mar
>>>>>> 2022, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The roundel is more relevant for the commuter who is absorbed by his
>>>>>>> mobile phone and sees the outside world only by the edge of his eyes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the mobile coverage in London tube tunnels has gone live
>>>>>> yet. Or if it has, I missed the hoo-ha.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I think it's some way off yet. But that doesn't stop people being
>>>>> people being buried in their (off-line) devices.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience it stops most people. What are they doing otherwise,
>>>> tidying up their contact lists?
>>>
>>> I suspect you haven't travelled much on deep underground Tube trains
>>> for years.
>>
>> During Covid, not very many people at all were!
>>
>>> People could be playing games, reading newspapers or magazines,
>>> watching a film or video, catching up on their mail, listening to a
>>> podcast, etc. Games are probably the most common activity.
>>
>> I'd get pretty bored playing games that much.
>
> I have a number of different games to entertain in such circumstances.
> Classics like Tetris, or Plants vs Zombies; a number of word games; several
> different shooting-balls-at-blocks options; and several railway games,
> including a shunting puzzle and tamping!
>
>> Which newspapers are best
>> for downloading and reading offline? I have to say my own preference is
>> to read small bits of a dozen newspapers, rather than most of just one.
>> You get a far more balanced view.
>
> You're permitted to have more than one newspaper downloaded to your phone
> at once.
>
> Does the Readly (?) app for magazines, discussed here in the past, allow
> download for offline reading?
> >
Yes it does.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t1vjm7$mg3$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:00 on Tue, 29 Mar
> 2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t1v33a$b4j$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:54:50 on Tue, 29 Mar
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>> Which newspapers are best for downloading and reading offline?
>>>>
>>>> Any with an app, such as the Times and Telegraph.
>>>
>>> I'm thinking more about the User interface than the content.
>>>
>>>>> I have to say my own preference is to read small bits of a dozen
>>>>> newspapers, rather than most of just one. You get a far more balanced
>>>>> view.
>>>>
>>>> Only if it's free to read. So, no Times, Telegraph or FT.
>>>
>>> Telegraph can be read free, and you can get sufficient of The Times
>>> and FT via Google News. But if course only online. If they could adapt
>>> their business model to accommodate those who want to live mainly
>>> outside those publications' echo chambers, I'm sure I could find them
>>> perhaps 1p per article. How you microbill that via a downloaded issue,
>>> is another technical problem for them to solve.
>>
>> Why should a publication want to microbill?
>
> In order to get any revenue from one part of its readership at all.
>
>> Just so you can cherry pick and not support the costs of the whole
>> publication. Decent journalism is expensive.
>
> Google news also cherry-picks (or as they prefer to call it "curates") a
> wide range of media to individuals' needs, and the sky hasn't fallen in.

Have you not seen what has happened to local newspapers?

In message <t1vk3i$pnp$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:45:06 on Tue, 29 Mar
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <nlt54h1bh97qd6m7302pin8bqleidm66b4@4ax.com>, at 13:12:13 on
>> Tue, 29 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 13:02:52 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <u5r54h54qf1g7lanuf1pqo1ejgu0dsbmos@4ax.com>, at 12:26:52 on
>>>> Tue, 29 Mar 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 12:21:50 +0100, Roland Perry
>>>>><roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <t1un8v$c5r$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:33:03 on Tue, 29 Mar
>>>>>> 2022, Rolf Mantel <news@hartig-mantel.de> remarked:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The roundel is more relevant for the commuter who is absorbed by his
>>>>>>> mobile phone and sees the outside world only by the edge of his eyes.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't think the mobile coverage in London tube tunnels has gone live
>>>>>> yet. Or if it has, I missed the hoo-ha.
>>>>>
>>>>> No, I think it's some way off yet. But that doesn't stop people being
>>>>> people being buried in their (off-line) devices.
>>>>
>>>> In my experience it stops most people. What are they doing otherwise,
>>>> tidying up their contact lists?
>>>
>>> I suspect you haven't travelled much on deep underground Tube trains
>>> for years.
>>
>> During Covid, not very many people at all were!
>>
>>> People could be playing games, reading newspapers or magazines,
>>> watching a film or video, catching up on their mail, listening to a
>>> podcast, etc. Games are probably the most common activity.
>>
>> I'd get pretty bored playing games that much.
>
>I have a number of different games to entertain in such circumstances.
>Classics like Tetris, or Plants vs Zombies; a number of word games; several
>different shooting-balls-at-blocks options; and several railway games,
>including a shunting puzzle and tamping!
>
>> Which newspapers are best
>> for downloading and reading offline? I have to say my own preference is
>> to read small bits of a dozen newspapers, rather than most of just one.
>> You get a far more balanced view.
>
>You're permitted to have more than one newspaper downloaded to your phone
>at once.

Permitted yes, but it seems like a huge waste of money to have several
subscribed to when you know you only want to read a few articles a day
spread across them.

>Does the Readly (?) app for magazines, discussed here in the past, allow
>download for offline reading?

I don't think I've seen Readly on a phone. Something to investigate one
day. But looking at Google play, yes it does. Very good eyesight
required by the look of it.

>Also don't forget that the majority of the tube is above ground,

The original video was about the Piccadilly Line, and many of the
comments here have been about seeing roundels out of the windows. Do the
surface stations suffer the same problems with roundel visibility, or
indeed people losing awareness of their location (above ground sections
have far more visual clues out of the windows than just roundels on a
station tunnel wall).

>where connectivity is no problem.

And sardine-packed trains restricting visibility much less of an issue.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 18:45:06 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Does the Readly (?) app for magazines, discussed here in the past, allow
>download for offline reading?

Yes, every magazine you open downloads and can then be accessed via
"Downloads" even if the device is offline and the normal front screen
doesn't load. In settings you can change the number of magazines
downloaded before old ones are deleted. Mine is set to 30. The only
problem is that reading on a phone (mines a 6" screen) needs constant
zooming or it does for my 60 year old eyes. Much better on a 8"
screen. As is often said an extra 2 inches can make all the
difference!

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 29/03/2022 16:25, Robin wrote:
>> On 29/03/2022 16:05, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com wrote:
>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 10:17:53 +0100
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t1ug2j$efu$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:30:11 on Tue, 29 Mar
>>>> 2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>>>>> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 08:56:07 +0100
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>> In message <t1t6f1$81d$1@dont-email.me>, at 21:39:28 on Mon, 28 Mar
>>>>>> 2022, NY <me@privacy.invalid> remarked:
>>>>>>> "Marland" <gemehabal@btinternet.co.uk> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:jae8fhF567eU1@mid.individual.net...
>>>>>>>> <Muttley@dastardlyhq.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Geoff Marshall reviews the mock up:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCMZqprWIU4
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I *really* don't like the small windows. Its a massive step
>>>>>>>>> backwards IMO  and
>>>>>>>>> will make the trains feel claustrophobic even with the walk
>>>>>>>>> through now
>>>>>>>>> available .
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Most people on the tube seem to be staring at a hand held screen
>>>>>>>> while they travel nowadays , they probably wouldn’t even notice if
>>>> the
>>>>>>>> windows had pretty scenes
>>>>>>>> done in stained glass .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The crucial thing is: can a standing passenger still see the station
>>>>>>> name on the roundel on the station wall as a train is coming into the
>>>>>>> station, in case the on-board display is hidden by other passengers,
>>>>>>> and the train is too noisy to hear the automated voice "We are now
>>>>>>> arriving at King's Cross" or the passenger is deaf?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's an impressive confluence of edge cases.
>>>>>
>>>>> A very plausible one in the rush hour.
>>>>
>>>> Stand by the doors if you an irregular user, commuters(sic) will know
>>>> where they are.
>>>
>>> Not always if you're engrossed in a paper/phone/chatting.
>>>
>>>>> Though LT/TfL seem to alternate between small and large windows just as
>>>>> they do with door buttons which as the video points out seem to have
>>>>> made a return. No doubt a new generation of engineers re-inventing the
>>>>> mistakes of the past.
>>>>
>>>> Maybe the requirements are changing, over time, too.
>>>
>>> I don't see how. Its not as if new tunnels have been built or human
>>> anatomy
>>> has changed.
>>>
>>
>> Air conditioning is new to the tube.
>>
>
> One thing that I don't understand is how the NT4L address the question
> of heat dissipation within the tunnel. IIRC, this has always been an
> issue for tube trains and the main reason why up till now there never
> was air conditioning.
>
> Having said that, I note that the cabs on 95ts have air conditioning.
>

Including the aircon, these new trains will use significantly less energy
(ie, produce less heat) than the ones they replace.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 17:47:30 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <t1v77q$1nsv$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 15:05:30 on Tue, 29 Mar
>2022, Muttley@dastardlyhq.com remarked:
>
>>>>Though LT/TfL seem to alternate between small and large windows just as
>>>>they do with door buttons which as the video points out seem to have
>>>>made a return. No doubt a new generation of engineers re-inventing the
>>>>mistakes of the past.
>>>
>>>Maybe the requirements are changing, over time, too.
>>
>>I don't see how. Its not as if new tunnels have been built or human anatomy
>>has changed.
>
>There's probably more people travelling now (pre-Covid anyway).

?

TfL decided door buttons were of little utility about 10 years-ish back when
passenger numbers were high and the 95 stock were refurbed without them.
Personally I think they were correct so why order trains with door buttons
again? Just more expense and more to go wrong.

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 19:53:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t1vjm7$mg3$1@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:00 on Tue, 29 Mar
>2022, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>>> Telegraph can be read free, and you can get sufficient of The Times
>>> and FT via Google News. But if course only online. If they could adapt
>>> their business model to accommodate those who want to live mainly
>>> outside those publications' echo chambers, I'm sure I could find them
>>> perhaps 1p per article. How you microbill that via a downloaded issue,
>>> is another technical problem for them to solve.
>>
>>Why should a publication want to microbill?
>
>In order to get any revenue from one part of its readership at all.

Microbilling has been hailed as the saviour of online publishing since
the 1990s. In reality, despite several attempts to establish
microbilling solutions, it hasn't taken off. The main problem, of
course, is transaction fees, which become more significant as the
transaction value itself decreases. And there's considerable friction
involved in setting up an account with potentially multiple microbilling
providers, since not every publication will use the same one.

In practice, a combination of advertising and subscriptions (and, for
magazines rather than newspapers, digital sales at edition rather than
article level) has broved to be the most effective for publishers and
the most acceptable to consumers. The technical and administrative
hurdles involved in setting up microbilling as an additional payment
method aren't justified by the likely returns.

Mark

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 18:45:06 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
<anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>> I'd get pretty bored playing games that much.
>
>I have a number of different games to entertain in such circumstances.
>Classics like Tetris, or Plants vs Zombies; a number of word games; several
>different shooting-balls-at-blocks options; and several railway games,
>including a shunting puzzle and tamping!

Tamping? I can't imagine that's exactly a popular game!

>> Which newspapers are best
>> for downloading and reading offline? I have to say my own preference is
>> to read small bits of a dozen newspapers, rather than most of just one.
>> You get a far more balanced view.
>
>You're permitted to have more than one newspaper downloaded to your phone
>at once.
>
>Does the Readly (?) app for magazines, discussed here in the past, allow
>download for offline reading?

Yes, it does. So does Pocketmags.

Mark

On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 20:04:12 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t1vk3i$pnp$3@dont-email.me>, at 18:45:06 on Tue, 29 Mar
>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:

>>You're permitted to have more than one newspaper downloaded to your phone
>>at once.
>
>Permitted yes, but it seems like a huge waste of money to have several
>subscribed to when you know you only want to read a few articles a day
>spread across them.

Readly offers an "all you can eat" subscription which allows unlimited
reading and downloading (subject to storage limits on your device,
obviously) for a flat monthly fee. If you do read several different
magazines, that's more cost-effective than individual subscriptions.

Mark

On 30/03/2022 10:17, Mark Goodge wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 18:45:06 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> I'd get pretty bored playing games that much.
>>
>> I have a number of different games to entertain in such circumstances.
>> Classics like Tetris, or Plants vs Zombies; a number of word games; several
>> different shooting-balls-at-blocks options; and several railway games,
>> including a shunting puzzle and tamping!
>
> Tamping? I can't imagine that's exactly a popular game!

I had a look yesterday and it looks more interesting than most games. I
would imagine it helps pass an odd 30 minutes in the middle of nowhere.

>
>>> Which newspapers are best
>>> for downloading and reading offline? I have to say my own preference is
>>> to read small bits of a dozen newspapers, rather than most of just one.
>>> You get a far more balanced view.
>>
>> You're permitted to have more than one newspaper downloaded to your phone
>> at once.
>>
>> Does the Readly (?) app for magazines, discussed here in the past, allow
>> download for offline reading?
>
> Yes, it does. So does Pocketmags.
>
> Mark

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 29 Mar 2022 18:45:06 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver
> <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> I'd get pretty bored playing games that much.
>>
>> I have a number of different games to entertain in such circumstances.
>> Classics like Tetris, or Plants vs Zombies; a number of word games; several
>> different shooting-balls-at-blocks options; and several railway games,
>> including a shunting puzzle and tamping!
>
> Tamping? I can't imagine that's exactly a popular game!
>

I must admit it's one I get bored of pretty quickly but I thought I'd
include it in the list because someone was bound to comment on it!

<https://youtu.be/uWBt-RSbC00>

>>> Which newspapers are best
>>> for downloading and reading offline? I have to say my own preference is
>>> to read small bits of a dozen newspapers, rather than most of just one.
>>> You get a far more balanced view.
>>
>> You're permitted to have more than one newspaper downloaded to your phone
>> at once.
>>
>> Does the Readly (?) app for magazines, discussed here in the past, allow
>> download for offline reading?
>
> Yes, it does. So does Pocketmags.
>

Ooh, another one to check out.

Anna Noyd-Dryver