I've seen nothing else about this anywhere so is there any truth at
all in this or is it just another 'sensation' article...

October 21st it says but doesn't mention a year. :-)

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1497377/BBC-Will-Finally-Solve-The-Biggest-Headache-Of-Watching-TV-in-High-Definition-HD-1080p

Bob.

On 29/09/2021 09:38, Bob Latham wrote:
> I've seen nothing else about this anywhere so is there any truth at
> all in this or is it just another 'sensation' article...
>
> October 21st it says but doesn't mention a year.:-)
>
> https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1497377/BBC-Will-Finally-Solve-The-Biggest-Headache-Of-Watching-TV-in-High-Definition-HD-1080p
>
> Bob.

I have seen it in several places, possibly here or UTB?

https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2021/09/24/bbc-english-regions-to-launch-hd-versions/

https://www.mediamole.co.uk/entertainment/broadcasting/news/bbc-one-to-launch-in-hd-across-english-regions-by-end-of-2022_439722.html

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:38:01 +0100, Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

>I've seen nothing else about this anywhere so is there any truth at
>all in this or is it just another 'sensation' article...
>
>October 21st it says but doesn't mention a year. :-)
>
>https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1497377/BBC-Will-Finally-Solve-The-Biggest-Headache-Of-Watching-TV-in-High-Definition-HD-1080p
>
Pity the BBC can't spell 'licence'.

On 29/09/2021 09:38, Bob Latham wrote:
> I've seen nothing else about this anywhere so is there any truth at
> all in this or is it just another 'sensation' article...
>
>
To be taken with a huge pinch of salt. Next October is more realistic.
It seems to all stem from someone on Digital Spy stumbling across a page
on the BBC's website that indicated HD versions of the BBC 1 regions are
launching on Oct 21 2021, and putting two and two together and getting
20, with the cut and paste culture of the internet, it becomes fact.

What might happen on that date, is the new BBC corporate logo is being
launched (possibly) and of course all the graphics everywhere on the BBC
will be changing.

As far as HD production is concerned, only four regions are currently
able to be in HD, London, NW, SW, and Cambs.
Another region is being upgraded now, due for completion by Christmas.
Still lots and lot to do, all being slowed by BrexiCovidSuez too.
I gather the code and muxing work is still ongoing, and by now we'd be
seeing satellite transponders being warmed up if it really all was
happening next month

In article <sj19v1$ed9$1@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 29/09/2021 09:38, Bob Latham wrote:

> > I've seen nothing else about this anywhere so is there any truth
> > at all in this or is it just another 'sensation' article...
> >
> > October 21st it says but doesn't mention a year.:-)
> >
> > https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1497377/BBC-Will-Finally-Solve-The-Biggest-Headache-Of-Watching-TV-in-High-Definition-HD-1080p
> >
> > Bob.

> I have seen it in several places, possibly here or UTB?

> https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2021/09/24/bbc-english-regions-to-la
> unch-hd-versions/

Also says next month...

> https://www.mediamole.co.uk/entertainment/broadcasting/news/bbc-one-
> to-launch-in-hd-across-english-regions-by-end-of-2022_439722.html

That says by end of 2022.

I'm sceptical, if this were true I think we would have heard more
about it as a hot topic for the group and Mark would be giving us a
head's up. Hope I'm wrong.

Bob.

On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:38:01 +0100, Bob Latham
<bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:

>I've seen nothing else about this anywhere so is there any truth at
>all in this or is it just another 'sensation' article...
>
>October 21st it says but doesn't mention a year. :-)
>
>https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1497377/BBC-Will-Finally-Solve-The-Biggest-Headache-Of-Watching-TV-in-High-Definition-HD-1080p
>
>Bob.

Perhaps they've spent too much money on six digit salaries for the
executives and presenters to have anything left to spend on
engineering the system so that it works as it should.

In any case I've long ago ceased to care about this I don't waste my
time watching broadcast TV at all, but only record actual programmes
that look as though they might be interesting.

Rod.

On 29/09/2021 09:38, Bob Latham wrote:
> I've seen nothing else about this anywhere so is there any truth at
> all in this or is it just another 'sensation' article...
>
> October 21st it says but doesn't mention a year. :-)
>
> https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1497377/BBC-Will-Finally-Solve-The-Biggest-Headache-Of-Watching-TV-in-High-Definition-HD-1080p
>
The Beeb have now finally stepped in to say it's bollocks (Although the
Media Mole site was one of the sites spreading the speculation in the
first place)

https://amp.mediamole.co.uk/entertainment/broadcasting/news/hd-versions-of-bbc-ones-english-regions-still-due-in-2022_465962.html

Or the Express can't Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:lna8lghm3fgv43jke2jihqfopglplbo1kc@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 29 Sep 2021 09:38:01 +0100, Bob Latham
> <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote:
>
>>I've seen nothing else about this anywhere so is there any truth at
>>all in this or is it just another 'sensation' article...
>>
>>October 21st it says but doesn't mention a year. :-)
>>
>>https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1497377/BBC-Will-Finally-Solve-The-Biggest-Headache-Of-Watching-TV-in-High-Definition-HD-1080p
>>
> Pity the BBC can't spell 'licence'.

This may be a stupid question, but given that cheap cameras now are all hd
and even your mobile can shoot in it, the only issue can have been the
electronics in the handling of the signals. What do they do at the moment,
simply up scale and down scale to get the pictures on the hd channels,
albeit not in hd?
I've never bothered with the hd channels myself since I cannot see them,
but do people moan then?
Brian

--

This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"MB" <MB@nospam.net> wrote in message news:sj19v1$ed9$1@dont-email.me...
> On 29/09/2021 09:38, Bob Latham wrote:
>> I've seen nothing else about this anywhere so is there any truth at
>> all in this or is it just another 'sensation' article...
>>
>> October 21st it says but doesn't mention a year.:-)
>>
>> https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/1497377/BBC-Will-Finally-Solve-The-Biggest-Headache-Of-Watching-TV-in-High-Definition-HD-1080p
>>
>> Bob.
>
> I have seen it in several places, possibly here or UTB?
>
>
> https://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2021/09/24/bbc-english-regions-to-launch-hd-versions/
>
> https://www.mediamole.co.uk/entertainment/broadcasting/news/bbc-one-to-launch-in-hd-across-english-regions-by-end-of-2022_439722.html
>

On 30/09/2021 08:44, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
> This may be a stupid question, but given that cheap cameras now are all hd
> and even your mobile can shoot in it, the only issue can have been the
> electronics in the handling of the signals. What do they do at the moment,
> simply up scale and down scale to get the pictures on the hd channels,
> albeit not in hd?
> I've never bothered with the hd channels myself since I cannot see them,
> but do people moan then?

Bit like saying what is the point of paying many tens of thousands pound
for a colour camera when you can buy a camera for a few tens of pounds
that will produce a colour image and record it.

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:40:31 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

>Or the Express can't Brian

It's in quotes and taken from an online FAQ. It is likely to be cut
and paste but I accept it could be a type-setting error by the
newspaper.

"Brian Gaff (Sofa)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:sj3pt6$ch0$1@dont-email.me...
> This may be a stupid question, but given that cheap cameras now are all hd
> and even your mobile can shoot in it, the only issue can have been the
> electronics in the handling of the signals. What do they do at the moment,
> simply up scale and down scale to get the pictures on the hd channels,
> albeit not in hd?
> I've never bothered with the hd channels myself since I cannot see them,
> but do people moan then?

I presume that national TV is originated on HD cameras (live or recorded)
and the SD feed is downscaled from the HD.

But regional news studios would still seem to be in the dark ages, using SD
cameras and/or SD equipment somewhere in the chain. I get the impression
that it's the "somewhere in the chain" that is the problem, otherwise BBC
would upscale their SD regional feed to insert into PSB3 (the T2/HD mux).

ITV are streets ahead of ITV when it comes to regions. Not only can they do
regional news in HD, but as of earlier this year they have even killed off a
lot of their SD variants of ITV on satellite, suggesting that HD really is
the way forward. I presume they will "always" broadcast an SD version of ITV
everywhere, but it may not any longer be your own regional variation.

BBC's problem sounds as if it's down to routing of signals. If I understand
correctly, BBC One SD and ITV SD/HD are sent directly to the transmitters,
so each major transmitter's version of PSB1 (BBC) and PSB2 (ITV) is
different. But BBC One HD is generated in one place for the whole of
England, so regions would have to send their feed to the central point, lots
of copies of PSB3 would have to be made up and sent to the relevant
transmitters. Seems a fairly lame way of doing it.

If there can be regional versions of PSB3, so each ITV region has its own
news and adverts, then why can't BBC piggyback on that mechanism and insert
regional versions of their channels?

Is the plan for BBC (when it eventually happens) for them to change to the
same topology as ITV?

I wouldn't mind if BBC local news in HD was an upscaled version of an SD
feed - anything is better than a caption - but it seems that even *this* is
not possible.

On 30/09/2021 10:38, NY wrote:
>
> BBC's problem sounds as if it's down to routing of signals. If I
> understand correctly, BBC One SD and ITV SD/HD are sent directly to
> the transmitters, so each major transmitter's version of PSB1 (BBC)
> and PSB2 (ITV) is different.

No. The SD muxes are generated centrally too, but all the various
regional differences are generated on PSB 1 and 2, (unlike PSB 3 which
currently has fewer, and that's the problem.)

> But BBC One HD is generated in one place for the whole of England, so
> regions would have to send their feed to the central point, lots of
> copies of PSB3 would have to be made up and sent to the relevant
> transmitters. Seems a fairly lame way of doing it.

Not at all, you have all the specialist equipment in one place, so all
the specialist support staff can be in the same place too
>
> If there can be regional versions of PSB3, so each ITV region has its
> own news and adverts, then why can't BBC piggyback on that mechanism
> and insert regional versions of their channels?

There are only four ITV HD regions on DTT in England; London, Meridian
East, Granada, and Central West. So lots of people get the wrong ITV HD
region on DTT presently (for instance Central West in Cornwall)

>
>
> I wouldn't mind if BBC local news in HD was an upscaled version of an
> SD feed - anything is better than a caption - but it seems that even
> *this* is not possible.

No for reasons explained above (and multiple time in the past in here,
but hey)

That's what's likely to happen initially anyway in some regions. There's
no way all of the remaining 10 SD BBC regional studios will be upgraded
in time.

On 30/09/2021 09:38, Scott wrote:
> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:40:31 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
> <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Or the Express can't Brian
>
> It's in quotes and taken from an online FAQ. It is likely to be cut
> and paste but I accept it could be a type-setting error by the
> newspaper.
>

I had a communication from a police commissioner the other day and he
misspelt 'aerial' throughout.

Bill

In article <irlikhF7atkU1@mid.individual.net>,
williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
> On 30/09/2021 09:38, Scott wrote:
> > On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:40:31 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
> > <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> >
> >> Or the Express can't Brian
> >
> > It's in quotes and taken from an online FAQ. It is likely to be cut
> > and paste but I accept it could be a type-setting error by the
> > newspaper.
> >

> I had a communication from a police commissioner the other day and he
> misspelt 'aerial' throughout.

was it him or the person who typed the message or even his computer's
spill chucker ?

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 30/09/2021 10:38, NY wrote:
> ITV are streets ahead of ITV when it comes to regions. Not only can they do
> regional news in HD, but as of earlier this year they have even killed off a
> lot of their SD variants of ITV on satellite, suggesting that HD really is
> the way forward.

That is OK for them, if the BBC dropped SD then there would be MPs
asking in Parliament why some old man in Yorkshire can no longer watch
his local BBC service. And of course they have a lot more money to spend.

On 30/09/2021 11:42, williamwright wrote:
> On 30/09/2021 09:38, Scott wrote:
>> On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 08:40:31 +0100, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
>> <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Or the Express can't  Brian
>>
>> It's in quotes and taken from an online FAQ.  It is likely to be cut
>> and paste but I accept it could be a type-setting error by the
>> newspaper.
>>
>
> I had a communication from a police commissioner the other day and he
> misspelt 'aerial' throughout.
>
> Bill

Did you report him to teh spelling police?

"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:irlgekF6uu0U1@mid.individual.net...
> There are only four ITV HD regions on DTT in England; London, Meridian
> East, Granada, and Central West. So lots of people get the wrong ITV HD
> region on DTT presently (for instance Central West in Cornwall)

Ah, they've binned a lot of regions even for HD terrestrial? I hadn't
realised that. I knew that satellite no longer had all the SD regions, only
a few key ones, but now has all the HD regions, but I've not actually
checked the HD terrestrial region for Belmont to see which is it. I know SD
is Hull-based, appropriate for Belmont. I'd assumed that there were fewer SD
regions (maybe on both terr and sat) and that there would still be the same
number of regions for HD (terr and sat). So the only way to get the correct
region now (even in HD) seems to be by satellite.

I'll record Calendar on HD tonight and see which local news I get from
Belmont - probably Granada's. I was assuming it would be either Leeds- or
Hull-based, as for SD (which is Hull-based - Yorkshire East).

> That's what's likely to happen initially anyway in some regions. There's
no way all of the remaining 10 SD BBC regional studios will be upgraded
in time.

What is the stumbling block? Is it upgrading the studios (camera, mixing
desks etc) to HD, or is it getting the feed to "Multiplex Head Office" so
the correct one can be fed to the correct version of PSB3?

Is the long-term intention for both BBC and ITV to produce all the regional
variations on HD terrestrial, or will it be that some places will always
have the closest of London, Meridian East, Granada, and Central West on
HD/terr?

If BBC are only intending to have broad-brush local news on HD/terr (eg
Granada * in East Yorkshire) then how is that an improvement over the
everyone-gets-London or most-people-get-caption situation? At least people
who get "the wrong news" at present (people in Yorkshire who get
Newcastle-based from Bilsdale rather than Leeds-based from Emley Moor) are
covered: they accept that they will sometimes have to cover news events in
the Dales or Moors.

How do advertisers feel about having to pay much more to advertise on ITV HD
because they have to have the same advert to all the areas covered by
Granada, rather than just having to pay for an advert to cover one ITV
region. I suppose that's why you see fewer adverts these days for places of
interest or shops that are only relevant to one ITV region. Not that I miss
all the low-budget "hurry, hurry, hurry" adverts made on a shoestring (often
a couple of wonky slides or dirty 16mm film, and a hammy voiceover) that
were common in the 70s and 80s.

(*) Or whatever the BBC equivalent is of the Granada Manchester-based news.

On 30/09/2021 14:23, NY wrote:
> no way all of the remaining 10 SD BBC regional studios will be upgraded
> in time.
>
> What is the stumbling block?

Money, and resources, and Covid. Plus everything is on daft lead times
at present, nothing unique to broadcasting of course........

> Is it upgrading the studios (camera, mixing desks etc) to HD, or is it
> getting the feed to "Multiplex Head Office" so the correct one can be
> fed to the correct version of PSB3?

Both. Upgrading everything at the studio to HD, notably the mixers,
routers, and servers, some 'SD' regions already have HD cameras, but
running in SD mode. Plus also the circuits to the Multiplex HQ as you
describe it. Although I think that bit was done this summer, (as was
physically moving the opt switch from the regions to HQ. The switch is
still controlled from the region)

>
> Is the long-term intention for both BBC and ITV to produce all the
> regional variations on HD terrestrial, or will it be that some places
> will always have the closest of London, Meridian East, Granada, and
> Central West on HD/terr?

No, the intention is to have all BBC and ITV regions available in HD on
all platforms. It's likely to happen for BBC and ITV at the same time on
DTT, as it's all the same mux.

> How do advertisers feel about having to pay much more to advertise on
> ITV HD because they have to have the same advert to all the areas
> covered by Granada, rather than just having to pay for an advert to
> cover one ITV region. I suppose that's why you see fewer adverts these
> days for places of interest or shops that are only relevant to one ITV
> region. Not that I miss all the low-budget "hurry, hurry, hurry"
> adverts made on a shoestring (often a couple of wonky slides or dirty
> 16mm film, and a hammy voiceover) that were common in the 70s and 80s.

I don't think advertising slots on HD are priced differently to SD. It
was the same 50 years ago with colour.

On 30/09/2021 13:57, MB wrote:
> That is OK for them, if the BBC dropped SD then there would be MPs
> asking in Parliament why some old man in Yorkshire can no longer watch
> his local BBC service.  And of course they have a lot more money to spend.

And why do you think that us old men in Yorkshire aren't worth bothering
about?

Bill

On 30/09/2021 14:37, williamwright wrote:
> And why do you think that us old men in Yorkshire aren't worth bothering
> about?

I was going to put Mrs Trellis of North Wales then decided to make it an
'old man' so seemed natural to put 'from Yorkshire'.

"MB" <MB@nospam.net> wrote in message news:sj4nas$d7p$2@dont-email.me...
> On 30/09/2021 14:37, williamwright wrote:
>> And why do you think that us old men in Yorkshire aren't worth bothering
>> about?
>
> I was going to put Mrs Trellis of North Wales then decided to make it an
> 'old man' so seemed natural to put 'from Yorkshire'.

Aye, cos it's only old men that live here in Yorkshire - complete with flat
cap, whippet, homing-pigeon loft and pint of Tetley's, muttering "Ow do?" ,
"Ey up" and "It's reet parky out, isn't it?"

Or have I missed out any stereotypes?

On 30/09/2021 17:07, MB wrote:
> On 30/09/2021 14:37, williamwright wrote:
>> And why do you think that us old men in Yorkshire aren't worth bothering
>> about?
>
> I was going to put Mrs Trellis of North Wales then decided to make it an
> 'old man' so seemed natural to put 'from Yorkshire'.
>

Waaaysist!

Bill

On 30/09/2021 21:11, NY wrote:
> "MB" <MB@nospam.net> wrote in message news:sj4nas$d7p$2@dont-email.me...
>> On 30/09/2021 14:37, williamwright wrote:
>>> And why do you think that us old men in Yorkshire aren't worth bothering
>>> about?
>>
>> I was going to put Mrs Trellis of North Wales then decided to make it
>> an 'old man' so seemed natural to put 'from Yorkshire'.
>
> Aye, cos it's only old men that live here in Yorkshire - complete with
> flat cap, whippet, homing-pigeon loft and pint of Tetley's, muttering
> "Ow do?" , "Ey up" and "It's reet parky out, isn't it?"
>
> Or have I missed out any stereotypes?

Alreet Harold?

Fair to middlin'

(that means, I have a terminal disease)

Bill

On Thu, 30 Sep 2021 11:42:25 +0100, williamwright
<wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:

>I had a communication from a police commissioner the other day and he
>misspelt 'aerial' throughout.

I expect he spelt it "donkeydick", because I've been told that's what
the police call the ones on their walkie talkies.

Rod.