ScotRail goes back into public ownership

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268

In message <t26b8k$7ua$1@dont-email.me>, at 08:57:08 on Fri, 1 Apr 2022,
MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:

>ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>
>https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268

No joke, is it?

I suppose the Abellio senior managers have been sent packing, and the
middle managers and boots on the ground all get TUPEd across.

Presumably I'll now get issued my third generation Scotrail ITSO card.

Theirs was the first to have a photo included, and looks quite official
(and I've had it accepted by people who really should have asked for one
of my other ID cards).

But now it's incontrovertibly a 'Government Issued Photo ID Card'
--
Roland Perry

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268

I wonder how long it'll be before the SNP pulls off one of 'Calmac on
Wheels' disasters?

On 01/04/2022 08:57, MB wrote:
> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268
>
>
>
Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...

Peter (Stroud, GLos)

--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com

Dudbridge Donkey <junk@broadband2k.plus.com> wrote:
> On 01/04/2022 08:57, MB wrote:
>> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268
>>
>>
>>
> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>

Perhaps you can tell us which directors and shareholders were collecting
hundreds of millions of pounds a year from ScotRail?

[Or did I miss an April Fool's joke?]

On 01/04/2022 11:40, Dudbridge Donkey wrote:
> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...

Probably just disappear into the SNP's coffers like all the other millions.

MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
> On 01/04/2022 11:40, Dudbridge Donkey wrote:
>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>
> Probably just disappear into the SNP's coffers like all the other millions.

Scottish taxpayers will now have to replace the subsidy previously provided
to ScotRail by Dutch taxpayers. But, no doubt, the SNP will find ways of
increasing the subsidy.

In message <t26laj$np5$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:48:51 on Fri, 1 Apr 2022,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Dudbridge Donkey <junk@broadband2k.plus.com> wrote:
>> On 01/04/2022 08:57, MB wrote:
>>> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268
>>>
>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>
>Perhaps you can tell us which directors and shareholders were collecting
>hundreds of millions of pounds a year from ScotRail?
>
>[Or did I miss an April Fool's joke?]

Whatever it is, we are missing sufficient clues as to whether it's
sarcasm against the RMT's rather obsolete dogma, or a genuinely held
belief.

According to the BBC (12th April 2021):

"The Dutch-owned company, which runs the Scotland rail
franchise, posted a pre-tax loss of £64.5m in the 12 months to
31 March 2020.

In the previous 15-month accounting period, its losses were just
over £11m."

The next set of figures are potentially due out in a couple of weeks.

But there's a hint from "The Times" in February last year that if
Abellio is was successful in getting an extra £80m compensation from
Network Rail for disruption at Queen St Station, "it would nudge Abellio
ScotRail back in to the black before its current franchise comes to a
premature end in 2022."

And: "The company late last year posted a third successive year of
losses and announced it had received a cumulative £40 million in bailout
loans"

Those Directors and Shareholders (isn't that the Dutch Government) would
appear to be out of luck.

Of course, now nationalised, the full cost of running the railway will
fall upon the Scottish Government. Let's hope they publish some
transparent accounts of how they got on 2022-23.
--
Roland Perry

In message <t26mkr$je9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:11:23 on Fri, 1 Apr 2022,
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>> On 01/04/2022 11:40, Dudbridge Donkey wrote:
>>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>
>> Probably just disappear into the SNP's coffers like all the other millions.
>
>Scottish taxpayers will now have to replace the subsidy previously provided
>to ScotRail by Dutch taxpayers. But, no doubt, the SNP will find ways of
>increasing the subsidy.

What really matters is the total cost, not how it's split by accounting
tricks into subsidy and operating "profit".

I remember when the ECML was first having a holiday from the private
sector, that the subsidy was increased [or was it the premiums were
reduced, same idea anyway] so that mysteriously, "East Coast" was
roughly breaking even, and hailed that as a huge success compared to
the losses NXEC had been making.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 13:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <t26mkr$je9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:11:23 on Fri, 1 Apr 2022,
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>> On 01/04/2022 11:40, Dudbridge Donkey wrote:
>>>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>
>>> Probably just disappear into the SNP's coffers like all the other millions.
>>
>>Scottish taxpayers will now have to replace the subsidy previously provided
>>to ScotRail by Dutch taxpayers. But, no doubt, the SNP will find ways of
>>increasing the subsidy.
>
>What really matters is the total cost, not how it's split by accounting
>tricks into subsidy and operating "profit".
>
>I remember when the ECML was first having a holiday from the private
>sector, that the subsidy was increased [or was it the premiums were
>reduced, same idea anyway] so that mysteriously, "East Coast" was
>roughly breaking even, and hailed that as a huge success compared to
>the losses NXEC had been making.

Yes, the OLR EC operation made a 'profit', but it was less than the premium that NX would have paid the DfT had the NXEC
franchise continued. Almost certainly, the best deal for the taxpayer would have been achieved by renegotiating the NXEC
contract to pay a lower premium, but nevertheless more than the nationalised TOC paid.

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 11:40:42 +0100, Dudbridge Donkey
<junk@broadband2k.plus.com> wrote:

>On 01/04/2022 08:57, MB wrote:
>> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>>
>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268
>>
>>
>>
>Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>
Last I heard, the directors were still getting paid. What money was
going to shareholders? It was a loss-making franchise subsidised by
the Dutch government.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:56:41 +0100, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 13:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <t26mkr$je9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:11:23 on Fri, 1 Apr 2022,
>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>> On 01/04/2022 11:40, Dudbridge Donkey wrote:
>>>>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>>
>>>> Probably just disappear into the SNP's coffers like all the other millions.
>>>
>>>Scottish taxpayers will now have to replace the subsidy previously provided
>>>to ScotRail by Dutch taxpayers. But, no doubt, the SNP will find ways of
>>>increasing the subsidy.
>>
>>What really matters is the total cost, not how it's split by accounting
>>tricks into subsidy and operating "profit".
>>
>>I remember when the ECML was first having a holiday from the private
>>sector, that the subsidy was increased [or was it the premiums were
>>reduced, same idea anyway] so that mysteriously, "East Coast" was
>>roughly breaking even, and hailed that as a huge success compared to
>>the losses NXEC had been making.
>
>Yes, the OLR EC operation made a 'profit', but it was less than the premium that NX would have paid the DfT had the NXEC
>franchise continued. Almost certainly, the best deal for the taxpayer would have been achieved by renegotiating the NXEC
>contract to pay a lower premium, but nevertheless more than the nationalised TOC paid.

I suspect the prospects of the Dutch government allowing Abellio to
renegotiate a loss-making franchise with an election approaching in
the Netherlands would be vanishingly small.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 14:21:02 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:56:41 +0100, Recliner
><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 13:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <t26mkr$je9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:11:23 on Fri, 1 Apr 2022,
>>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 01/04/2022 11:40, Dudbridge Donkey wrote:
>>>>>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably just disappear into the SNP's coffers like all the other millions.
>>>>
>>>>Scottish taxpayers will now have to replace the subsidy previously provided
>>>>to ScotRail by Dutch taxpayers. But, no doubt, the SNP will find ways of
>>>>increasing the subsidy.
>>>
>>>What really matters is the total cost, not how it's split by accounting
>>>tricks into subsidy and operating "profit".
>>>
>>>I remember when the ECML was first having a holiday from the private
>>>sector, that the subsidy was increased [or was it the premiums were
>>>reduced, same idea anyway] so that mysteriously, "East Coast" was
>>>roughly breaking even, and hailed that as a huge success compared to
>>>the losses NXEC had been making.
>>
>>Yes, the OLR EC operation made a 'profit', but it was less than the premium that NX would have paid the DfT had the NXEC
>>franchise continued. Almost certainly, the best deal for the taxpayer would have been achieved by renegotiating the NXEC
>>contract to pay a lower premium, but nevertheless more than the nationalised TOC paid.
>
>I suspect the prospects of the Dutch government allowing Abellio to
>renegotiate a loss-making franchise with an election approaching in
>the Netherlands would be vanishingly small.

I was talking about NX. The situation with Abellio was completely different, but note that it was making a loss, and
therefore subsidising ScotRail quite generously (pre-Covid). Of course, everything changed after March 2020.

On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 14:30:37 +0100, Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 14:21:02 +0100, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:56:41 +0100, Recliner
>><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 13:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <t26mkr$je9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:11:23 on Fri, 1 Apr 2022,
>>>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 01/04/2022 11:40, Dudbridge Donkey wrote:
>>>>>>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>>>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably just disappear into the SNP's coffers like all the other millions.
>>>>>
>>>>>Scottish taxpayers will now have to replace the subsidy previously provided
>>>>>to ScotRail by Dutch taxpayers. But, no doubt, the SNP will find ways of
>>>>>increasing the subsidy.
>>>>
>>>>What really matters is the total cost, not how it's split by accounting
>>>>tricks into subsidy and operating "profit".
>>>>
>>>>I remember when the ECML was first having a holiday from the private
>>>>sector, that the subsidy was increased [or was it the premiums were
>>>>reduced, same idea anyway] so that mysteriously, "East Coast" was
>>>>roughly breaking even, and hailed that as a huge success compared to
>>>>the losses NXEC had been making.
>>>
>>>Yes, the OLR EC operation made a 'profit', but it was less than the premium that NX would have paid the DfT had the NXEC
>>>franchise continued. Almost certainly, the best deal for the taxpayer would have been achieved by renegotiating the NXEC
>>>contract to pay a lower premium, but nevertheless more than the nationalised TOC paid.
>>
>>I suspect the prospects of the Dutch government allowing Abellio to
>>renegotiate a loss-making franchise with an election approaching in
>>the Netherlands would be vanishingly small.
>
>I was talking about NX. The situation with Abellio was completely different, but note that it was making a loss, and
>therefore subsidising ScotRail quite generously (pre-Covid). Of course, everything changed after March 2020.

I knew you were talking about NX but, as it is a ScotRail thread, I
wanted to make it clear that the situation is completely different
lest parallels be drawn. .

In message <tuud4hhu6khlav0a1v8tbo35o0pt80gqr7@4ax.com>, at 14:21:02 on
Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:56:41 +0100, Recliner
><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 13:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>In message <t26mkr$je9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:11:23 on Fri, 1 Apr 2022,
>>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>> On 01/04/2022 11:40, Dudbridge Donkey wrote:
>>>>>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>>>
>>>>> Probably just disappear into the SNP's coffers like all the other
>>>>>millions.
>>>>
>>>>Scottish taxpayers will now have to replace the subsidy previously provided
>>>>to ScotRail by Dutch taxpayers. But, no doubt, the SNP will find ways of
>>>>increasing the subsidy.
>>>
>>>What really matters is the total cost, not how it's split by accounting
>>>tricks into subsidy and operating "profit".
>>>
>>>I remember when the ECML was first having a holiday from the private
>>>sector, that the subsidy was increased [or was it the premiums were
>>>reduced, same idea anyway] so that mysteriously, "East Coast" was
>>>roughly breaking even, and hailed that as a huge success compared to
>>>the losses NXEC had been making.
>>
>>Yes, the OLR EC operation made a 'profit', but it was less than the
>>premium that NX would have paid the DfT had the NXEC
>>franchise continued. Almost certainly, the best deal for the taxpayer
>>would have been achieved by renegotiating the NXEC
>>contract to pay a lower premium, but nevertheless more than the
>>nationalised TOC paid.
>
>I suspect the prospects of the Dutch government allowing Abellio to
>renegotiate a loss-making franchise with an election approaching in
>the Netherlands would be vanishingly small.

They were booted out of the franchise in 2019 (for poor performance),
and have just finished their just over 2yr hand-over process.
--
Roland Perry

In message <iqud4hlmi9qs64loofgota2k74t1uh0qv7@4ax.com>, at 14:18:14 on
Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 11:40:42 +0100, Dudbridge Donkey
><junk@broadband2k.plus.com> wrote:
>
>>On 01/04/2022 08:57, MB wrote:
>>> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>>>
>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268
>>>
>>Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>
>Last I heard, the directors were still getting paid.

Directors of what company? And surely not hundreds of millions!

>What money was going to shareholders? It was a loss-making franchise
>subsidised by the Dutch government.

--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 15:36:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <tuud4hhu6khlav0a1v8tbo35o0pt80gqr7@4ax.com>, at 14:21:02 on
>Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:56:41 +0100, Recliner
>><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 13:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <t26mkr$je9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:11:23 on Fri, 1 Apr 2022,
>>>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>> On 01/04/2022 11:40, Dudbridge Donkey wrote:
>>>>>>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>>>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably just disappear into the SNP's coffers like all the other
>>>>>>millions.
>>>>>
>>>>>Scottish taxpayers will now have to replace the subsidy previously provided
>>>>>to ScotRail by Dutch taxpayers. But, no doubt, the SNP will find ways of
>>>>>increasing the subsidy.
>>>>
>>>>What really matters is the total cost, not how it's split by accounting
>>>>tricks into subsidy and operating "profit".
>>>>
>>>>I remember when the ECML was first having a holiday from the private
>>>>sector, that the subsidy was increased [or was it the premiums were
>>>>reduced, same idea anyway] so that mysteriously, "East Coast" was
>>>>roughly breaking even, and hailed that as a huge success compared to
>>>>the losses NXEC had been making.
>>>
>>>Yes, the OLR EC operation made a 'profit', but it was less than the
>>>premium that NX would have paid the DfT had the NXEC
>>>franchise continued. Almost certainly, the best deal for the taxpayer
>>>would have been achieved by renegotiating the NXEC
>>>contract to pay a lower premium, but nevertheless more than the
>>>nationalised TOC paid.
>>
>>I suspect the prospects of the Dutch government allowing Abellio to
>>renegotiate a loss-making franchise with an election approaching in
>>the Netherlands would be vanishingly small.
>
>They were booted out of the franchise in 2019 (for poor performance),
>and have just finished their just over 2yr hand-over process.

I thought Abellio started the hand-over process two years ago :-)

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 15:37:53 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <iqud4hlmi9qs64loofgota2k74t1uh0qv7@4ax.com>, at 14:18:14 on
>Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 11:40:42 +0100, Dudbridge Donkey
>><junk@broadband2k.plus.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 01/04/2022 08:57, MB wrote:
>>>> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>>>>
>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268
>>>>
>>>Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>
>>Last I heard, the directors were still getting paid.
>
>Directors of what company? And surely not hundreds of millions!
>
Scottish Rail Holdings Limited (SRH) for a start.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 15:36:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <tuud4hhu6khlav0a1v8tbo35o0pt80gqr7@4ax.com>, at 14:21:02 on
>> Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:56:41 +0100, Recliner
>>> <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 13:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <t26mkr$je9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:11:23 on Fri, 1 Apr 2022,
>>>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 01/04/2022 11:40, Dudbridge Donkey wrote:
>>>>>>>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>>>>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Probably just disappear into the SNP's coffers like all the other
>>>>>>> millions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Scottish taxpayers will now have to replace the subsidy previously provided
>>>>>> to ScotRail by Dutch taxpayers. But, no doubt, the SNP will find ways of
>>>>>> increasing the subsidy.
>>>>>
>>>>> What really matters is the total cost, not how it's split by accounting
>>>>> tricks into subsidy and operating "profit".
>>>>>
>>>>> I remember when the ECML was first having a holiday from the private
>>>>> sector, that the subsidy was increased [or was it the premiums were
>>>>> reduced, same idea anyway] so that mysteriously, "East Coast" was
>>>>> roughly breaking even, and hailed that as a huge success compared to
>>>>> the losses NXEC had been making.
>>>>
>>>> Yes, the OLR EC operation made a 'profit', but it was less than the
>>>> premium that NX would have paid the DfT had the NXEC
>>>> franchise continued. Almost certainly, the best deal for the taxpayer
>>>> would have been achieved by renegotiating the NXEC
>>>> contract to pay a lower premium, but nevertheless more than the
>>>> nationalised TOC paid.
>>>
>>> I suspect the prospects of the Dutch government allowing Abellio to
>>> renegotiate a loss-making franchise with an election approaching in
>>> the Netherlands would be vanishingly small.
>>
>> They were booted out of the franchise in 2019 (for poor performance),
>> and have just finished their just over 2yr hand-over process.
>
> I thought Abellio started the hand-over process two years ago :-)
>

<https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/main-line/abellios-scotrail-franchise-to-end-three-years-early/>

In message <uj4e4hhgiaiv1pisf499i2bfm9gl4jrhlh@4ax.com>, at 15:56:24 on
Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 15:36:49 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <tuud4hhu6khlav0a1v8tbo35o0pt80gqr7@4ax.com>, at 14:21:02 on
>>Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>>On Fri, 01 Apr 2022 13:56:41 +0100, Recliner
>>><recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 13:26:43 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In message <t26mkr$je9$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:11:23 on Fri, 1 Apr 2022,
>>>>>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>>>MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 01/04/2022 11:40, Dudbridge Donkey wrote:
>>>>>>>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>>>>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and
>>>>>>>>shareholders...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Probably just disappear into the SNP's coffers like all the other
>>>>>>>millions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Scottish taxpayers will now have to replace the subsidy previously
>>>>>>provided
>>>>>>to ScotRail by Dutch taxpayers. But, no doubt, the SNP will find ways of
>>>>>>increasing the subsidy.
>>>>>
>>>>>What really matters is the total cost, not how it's split by accounting
>>>>>tricks into subsidy and operating "profit".
>>>>>
>>>>>I remember when the ECML was first having a holiday from the private
>>>>>sector, that the subsidy was increased [or was it the premiums were
>>>>>reduced, same idea anyway] so that mysteriously, "East Coast" was
>>>>>roughly breaking even, and hailed that as a huge success compared to
>>>>>the losses NXEC had been making.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, the OLR EC operation made a 'profit', but it was less than the
>>>>premium that NX would have paid the DfT had the NXEC
>>>>franchise continued. Almost certainly, the best deal for the taxpayer
>>>>would have been achieved by renegotiating the NXEC
>>>>contract to pay a lower premium, but nevertheless more than the
>>>>nationalised TOC paid.
>>>
>>>I suspect the prospects of the Dutch government allowing Abellio to
>>>renegotiate a loss-making franchise with an election approaching in
>>>the Netherlands would be vanishingly small.
>>
>>They were booted out of the franchise in 2019 (for poor performance),
>>and have just finished their just over 2yr hand-over process.
>
>I thought Abellio started the hand-over process two years ago :-)

Yes that's right, just after the franchise wasn't renewed (aka they were
booted out).
--
Roland Perry

In message <7n4e4hphdo4ga4oorhn33sv916catog6h3@4ax.com>, at 15:58:16 on
Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 15:37:53 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <iqud4hlmi9qs64loofgota2k74t1uh0qv7@4ax.com>, at 14:18:14 on
>>Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 11:40:42 +0100, Dudbridge Donkey
>>><junk@broadband2k.plus.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 01/04/2022 08:57, MB wrote:
>>>>> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268
>>>>>
>>>>Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>>
>>>Last I heard, the directors were still getting paid.
>>
>>Directors of what company? And surely not hundreds of millions!
>>
>Scottish Rail Holdings Limited (SRH) for a start.

As the company is dormant, I hope they aren't being paid much.
--
Roland Perry

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 16:08:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <7n4e4hphdo4ga4oorhn33sv916catog6h3@4ax.com>, at 15:58:16 on
>Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 15:37:53 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <iqud4hlmi9qs64loofgota2k74t1uh0qv7@4ax.com>, at 14:18:14 on
>>>Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 11:40:42 +0100, Dudbridge Donkey
>>>><junk@broadband2k.plus.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 01/04/2022 08:57, MB wrote:
>>>>>> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268
>>>>>>
>>>>>Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>>of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>>>
>>>>Last I heard, the directors were still getting paid.
>>>
>>>Directors of what company? And surely not hundreds of millions!
>>>
>>Scottish Rail Holdings Limited (SRH) for a start.
>
>As the company is dormant, I hope they aren't being paid much.

Surely dormant only because they only started trading today?

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 16:08:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <7n4e4hphdo4ga4oorhn33sv916catog6h3@4ax.com>, at 15:58:16 on
>Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 15:37:53 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <iqud4hlmi9qs64loofgota2k74t1uh0qv7@4ax.com>, at 14:18:14 on
>>>Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 11:40:42 +0100, Dudbridge Donkey
>>>><junk@broadband2k.plus.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 01/04/2022 08:57, MB wrote:
>>>>>> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268
>>>>>>
>>>>>Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>>of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>>>
>>>>Last I heard, the directors were still getting paid.
>>>
>>>Directors of what company? And surely not hundreds of millions!
>>>
>>Scottish Rail Holdings Limited (SRH) for a start.
>
>As the company is dormant, I hope they aren't being paid much.

The Rail Business Director was advertised at £90-95k according to a
link now taken down:
https://www.transport.gov.scot/vacancies/rail-business-director-scottish-rail-holdings/

Better than a slater up yer nose, as we say.

Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 16:08:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <7n4e4hphdo4ga4oorhn33sv916catog6h3@4ax.com>, at 15:58:16 on
>> Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 15:37:53 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <iqud4hlmi9qs64loofgota2k74t1uh0qv7@4ax.com>, at 14:18:14 on
>>>> Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 11:40:42 +0100, Dudbridge Donkey
>>>>> <junk@broadband2k.plus.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/04/2022 08:57, MB wrote:
>>>>>>> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>>>>
>>>>> Last I heard, the directors were still getting paid.
>>>>
>>>> Directors of what company? And surely not hundreds of millions!
>>>>
>>> Scottish Rail Holdings Limited (SRH) for a start.
>>
>> As the company is dormant, I hope they aren't being paid much.
>
> The Rail Business Director was advertised at £90-95k according to a
> link now taken down:
> https://www.transport.gov.scot/vacancies/rail-business-director-scottish-rail-holdings/
>
> Better than a slater up yer nose, as we say.
>

I think the real interest is in whether the unions seek to take advantage
of public ownership by demanding more, and will there be more
discounted/free tickets offered to favoured voter demographics?

On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 16:04:47 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 16:08:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <7n4e4hphdo4ga4oorhn33sv916catog6h3@4ax.com>, at 15:58:16 on
>>> Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 15:37:53 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <iqud4hlmi9qs64loofgota2k74t1uh0qv7@4ax.com>, at 14:18:14 on
>>>>> Fri, 1 Apr 2022, Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> remarked:
>>>>>> On Fri, 1 Apr 2022 11:40:42 +0100, Dudbridge Donkey
>>>>>> <junk@broadband2k.plus.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 01/04/2022 08:57, MB wrote:
>>>>>>>> ScotRail goes back into public ownership
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-60842268
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Think of how much better the railways up there will become now hundreds
>>>>>>> of millions of pounds a year isn't going to directors and shareholders...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Last I heard, the directors were still getting paid.
>>>>>
>>>>> Directors of what company? And surely not hundreds of millions!
>>>>>
>>>> Scottish Rail Holdings Limited (SRH) for a start.
>>>
>>> As the company is dormant, I hope they aren't being paid much.
>>
>> The Rail Business Director was advertised at £90-95k according to a
>> link now taken down:
>> https://www.transport.gov.scot/vacancies/rail-business-director-scottish-rail-holdings/
>>
>> Better than a slater up yer nose, as we say.
>>
>
>I think the real interest is in whether the unions seek to take advantage
>of public ownership by demanding more, and will there be more
>discounted/free tickets offered to favoured voter demographics?

And - whether the MSPs try to micro-manage the timetable. I can
imagine First Minister's Questions: 'There is a 52 minute gap between
trains at my local station and one of my constituents got awffy cold
standing on the platform. It's a pure disgrace, so it is'.