England names unchanged squad, so Bairstow stays on as chief of the
missed chances. I almost hope he concusses himself with a 9 iron so
Foakes can come in, and we only have to get 20 wkts not 26 or more.
However it wouldnt surprise me if they name the same team
but surely yobbo is a liability ATM, and they have to decide who bats at 3,
as clearly Brook is better at 5. Apparently Ali wanted to bat at 3, perhaps
he wants to have a another go, but i dont see it working. I would tell OT
to prepare a traditional english seamers pitch which shouldnt be too
difficult given the weather forcast, and pick Anderson over yobbo.

On another forum the oz are speculating the extent of stokes knee
surgery he will require and what type of cripple he will be in later life.
Hopefully he will give it a rest for the next 10 days, perhaps cut out
all those dives around the boundary.

Ben Stokes (Durham, captain), Moeen Ali (Warwickshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Harry Brook (Yorkshire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex),Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Josh Tongue (Worcestershire),Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).

mike

On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:36:06 PM UTC+10, mike wrote:
> England names unchanged squad, so Bairstow stays on as chief of the
> missed chances. I almost hope he concusses himself with a 9 iron so
> Foakes can come in, and we only have to get 20 wkts not 26 or more.
> However it wouldnt surprise me if they name the same team
> but surely yobbo is a liability ATM,

Robinson in the series
3 tests 10 wickets @ 28.4 er 2.76 sr 61.6
Not seeing anything that makes him a liability if he's fit and they're confident he can get through a test

> and they have to decide who bats at 3,
> as clearly Brook is better at 5. Apparently Ali wanted to bat at 3, perhaps
> he wants to have a another go, but i dont see it working.

I think it was Mark Butcher that suggested Stokes at 3 and it's not a bad idea if he's not able to bowl
He's been one of the more controlled batsmen in the series and can attack if the situation calls for it

Root is probably the other option and over the last couple of years he's batted at #3 he's done ok there averaging around 47 or so

>I would tell OT
> to prepare a traditional english seamers pitch which shouldnt be too
> difficult given the weather forcast, and pick Anderson over yobbo.
>

Robinson is a liability but Anderson with 3 wickets in 2 tests (where Robinson took 10 @24) isn't a concern?

> On another forum the oz are speculating the extent of stokes knee
> surgery he will require and what type of cripple he will be in later life..
> Hopefully he will give it a rest for the next 10 days, perhaps cut out
> all those dives around the boundary.
>
> Ben Stokes (Durham, captain), Moeen Ali (Warwickshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Harry Brook (Yorkshire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex),Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Josh Tongue (Worcestershire),Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).

In message <e69be7cd-2956-4800-ba0e-d57a59bb533en@googlegroups.com>,
mike <dmike204@yahoo.co.uk> writes
>England names unchanged squad, so Bairstow stays on as chief of the
>missed chances. I almost hope he concusses himself with a 9 iron so
>Foakes can come in, and we only have to get 20 wkts not 26 or more.
>However it wouldnt surprise me if they name the same team
>but surely yobbo is a liability ATM,

With the worry about his back, I'd have thought he has to be replaced by
either Anderson or Tongue. I'd go for Tongue, but I suspect England will
choose Anderson.

> and they have to decide who bats at 3,
>as clearly Brook is better at 5. Apparently Ali wanted to bat at 3, perhaps
>he wants to have a another go, but i dont see it working.

Even if it doesn't work for Ali, if it works for Brook then it may be
worth persisting with. I can't see them brining in Lawrence to bat at 3
in place of a bowler as, with Stokes unlikely to be able to bowl, they
would be down to four bowlers plus Root.

> I would tell OT
>to prepare a traditional english seamers pitch which shouldnt be too
>difficult given the weather forcast, and pick Anderson over yobbo.

Stokes said before the start of the series that England want hard, fast
pitches, and that's what they got at Headingley for the first time in
the series. It also had a bit of seam movement when it was overcast, as
well as thee being some swing. A similar pitch at Old Trafford would be
good. The pitch there usually has a bit of pace and bounce, as well as
helping spin in the latter stages.

>
>On another forum the oz are speculating the extent of stokes knee
>surgery he will require and what type of cripple he will be in later life.
>Hopefully he will give it a rest for the next 10 days, perhaps cut out
>all those dives around the boundary.
>
> Ben Stokes (Durham, captain), Moeen Ali (Warwickshire), James Anderson
>(Lancashire), Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad
>(Nottinghamshire), Harry Brook (Yorkshire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Ben
>Duckett (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex),Ollie Robinson
>(Sussex), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Josh Tongue (Worcestershire),Chris
>Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).

I'd leave out Anderson, Lawrence and Robinson.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On 7/11/2023 7:16 AM, Hamish Laws wrote:
> On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 11:36:06 PM UTC+10, mike wrote:
>> England names unchanged squad, so Bairstow stays on as chief of the
>> missed chances. I almost hope he concusses himself with a 9 iron so
>> Foakes can come in, and we only have to get 20 wkts not 26 or more.
>> However it wouldnt surprise me if they name the same team
>> but surely yobbo is a liability ATM,
>
> Robinson in the series
> 3 tests 10 wickets @ 28.4 er 2.76 sr 61.6
> Not seeing anything that makes him a liability if he's fit and they're confident he can get through a test
>
>
>> and they have to decide who bats at 3,
>> as clearly Brook is better at 5. Apparently Ali wanted to bat at 3, perhaps
>> he wants to have a another go, but i dont see it working.
>
> I think it was Mark Butcher that suggested Stokes at 3 and it's not a bad idea if he's not able to bowl
> He's been one of the more controlled batsmen in the series and can attack if the situation calls for it
>
> Root is probably the other option and over the last couple of years he's batted at #3 he's done ok there averaging around 47 or so
>
>> I would tell OT
>> to prepare a traditional english seamers pitch which shouldnt be too
>> difficult given the weather forcast, and pick Anderson over yobbo.
>>
>
> Robinson is a liability but Anderson with 3 wickets in 2 tests (where Robinson took 10 @24) isn't a concern?
>
>> On another forum the oz are speculating the extent of stokes knee
>> surgery he will require and what type of cripple he will be in later life.
>> Hopefully he will give it a rest for the next 10 days, perhaps cut out
>> all those dives around the boundary.
>>
>> Ben Stokes (Durham, captain), Moeen Ali (Warwickshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Harry Brook (Yorkshire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex),Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Josh Tongue (Worcestershire),Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).

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On 11/07/2023 14:36, mike wrote:
> England names unchanged squad, so Bairstow stays on as chief of the
> missed chances. I almost hope he concusses himself with a 9 iron so
> Foakes can come in, and we only have to get 20 wkts not 26 or more.
> However it wouldnt surprise me if they name the same team
> but surely yobbo is a liability ATM, and they have to decide who bats at 3,
> as clearly Brook is better at 5. Apparently Ali wanted to bat at 3, perhaps
> he wants to have a another go, but i dont see it working. I would tell OT
> to prepare a traditional english seamers pitch which shouldnt be too
> difficult given the weather forcast, and pick Anderson over yobbo.
>
> On another forum the oz are speculating the extent of stokes knee
> surgery he will require and what type of cripple he will be in later life.
> Hopefully he will give it a rest for the next 10 days, perhaps cut out
> all those dives around the boundary.
>
> Ben Stokes (Durham, captain), Moeen Ali (Warwickshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Harry Brook (Yorkshire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex),Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Josh Tongue (Worcestershire),Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).
>
> mike

I can see the logic in this. Bairstow at his best is a much better
batsman than Foakes, and an excellent keeper. Unfortunately a lay off
like he's had means he's nowhere near his best. The old adage says that
form is temporary, but class is permanent. Jonny has class. I'd be
tempted to rest Broad and play Tongue, Wood has demonstrated the value
of pace. If Mo wants to bat at 3, I'd let him.
Steve Hague.

Shifting Ali to #3 isn't going to work.
Shifting Stokes to #3 might work, but why are we forced to risk it? He's done so well batting where he has that he's the last player I'd move.

Do we seriously not have a genuine #3 available? I guess it's too late now.

On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 6:56:51 AM UTC+10, Steve Hague wrote:

> I can see the logic in this. Bairstow at his best is a much better
> batsman than Foakes, and an excellent keeper. Unfortunately a lay off
> like he's had means he's nowhere near his best. The old adage says that
> form is temporary, but class is permanent. Jonny has class. I'd be
> tempted to rest Broad and play Tongue, Wood has demonstrated the value
> of pace.

Broad's been pretty effective so far as the series leading wicket taker with 16 wickets @ 24.93.
With a break until the 4th test I can't see leaving him out unless he's just picked up an injury and they think he's a good chance of breaking down if he plays again
I'd think Robinson out for Tongue would make more sense if you want Tongue and Wood in the attack

>If Mo wants to bat at 3, I'd let him.

I suspect that if you asked Mo to open the bowling trying to bowl bouncers he'd give it the best shot he could.

In message <97d3ad8e-49d9-4fc0-9c5a-302eacaa6888n@googlegroups.com>,
jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>Shifting Ali to #3 isn't going to work.
>Shifting Stokes to #3 might work, but why are we forced to risk it?
>He's done so well batting where he has that he's the last player I'd
>move.
>
>Do we seriously not have a genuine #3 available? I guess it's too late now.
>
>

The only genuine #3 we have is Root, but of course he's always been
reluctant to bat there.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 7:13:36 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> The only genuine #3 we have is Root, but of course he's always been
> reluctant to bat there.

I meant in the whole of England (and England qualified).

On Tuesday, July 11, 2023 at 2:36:06 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> England names unchanged squad, so Bairstow stays on as chief of the
> missed chances. I almost hope he concusses himself with a 9 iron so
> Foakes can come in, and we only have to get 20 wkts not 26 or more.
> However it wouldnt surprise me if they name the same team
> but surely yobbo is a liability ATM, and they have to decide who bats at 3,
> as clearly Brook is better at 5. Apparently Ali wanted to bat at 3, perhaps
> he wants to have a another go, but i dont see it working. I would tell OT
> to prepare a traditional english seamers pitch which shouldnt be too
> difficult given the weather forcast, and pick Anderson over yobbo.
>
> On another forum the oz are speculating the extent of stokes knee
> surgery he will require and what type of cripple he will be in later life..
> Hopefully he will give it a rest for the next 10 days, perhaps cut out
> all those dives around the boundary.
>
> Ben Stokes (Durham, captain), Moeen Ali (Warwickshire), James Anderson (Lancashire), Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad (Nottinghamshire), Harry Brook (Yorkshire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Ben Duckett (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex),Ollie Robinson (Sussex), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Josh Tongue (Worcestershire),Chris Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).
>
> mike

Wouldn't it be refreshing to have and attack of Wood, Tongue , Gus Atkinson and Broad.?

RH

On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 10:35:00 AM UTC+1, jack fredricks wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 7:13:36 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> > The only genuine #3 we have is Root, but of course he's always been
> > reluctant to bat there.
> I meant in the whole of England (and England qualified).

well they have lawrence in the squad as cover for someone, otherwise
it would mean going back to the likes of Malan and Vince or choosing
a newbie which isnt going to happen, esp at no3. for england, no3 is
usually the short straw for the latest charlie, although pope was beginning
to make a decent impression.

I think ali has batted at no3 a lot for worcs in the past, but hes had so little
FC cricket recently, i dont expect more than 20 at the most the way he plays
now. and with 2 pinch hitters opening the batting do we need another at 3?
however as theyll want a spinner at OT i spose, he'll presumably be in the side
anyway.

As for yobbo, hes had 2 injury scares in 3 tests and only managed 11 overs
at leeds. england are taking a risk enough with a keeper whos unreliable,
should they compound that by picking a bowler who might not be able to bowl?
esp when stokes cant bowl and wood is playing, theyve got to be able to rely on
the others 100%.

mike

In message <68365621-0e04-4bf6-8ef7-ac3174d9c481n@googlegroups.com>,
jack fredricks <jzfredricks@gmail.com> writes
>On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 7:13:360 >> The only genuine #3 we have is Root, but of course he's always been
>> reluctant to bat there.
>
>I meant in the whole of England (and England qualified).

So did I!
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 4:22:57 PM UTC+1, mike wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 10:35:00 AM UTC+1, jack fredricks wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 7:13:36 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> > > The only genuine #3 we have is Root, but of course he's always been
> > > reluctant to bat there.
> > I meant in the whole of England (and England qualified).
> well they have lawrence in the squad as cover for someone,

batting at no4 for essex he hit 9 sixes in his 135 today, the boys on fire!

and how long can oz ignore blackbeard who hit 176 for glamorgan?

mike

On 12/07/2023 10:34, jack fredricks wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 7:13:36 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
>> The only genuine #3 we have is Root, but of course he's always been
>> reluctant to bat there.
>
> I meant in the whole of England (and England qualified).

Yes, but even if they had someone to bring in, there would still be the
problem of who to leave out.

--
David North

On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:48:43 PM UTC+10, David North wrote:
> On 12/07/2023 10:34, jack fredricks wrote:
> > On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 7:13:36 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> >> The only genuine #3 we have is Root, but of course he's always been
> >> reluctant to bat there.
> >
> > I meant in the whole of England (and England qualified).
> Yes, but even if they had someone to bring in, there would still be the
> problem of who to leave out.

Duckett
Crawley
Genuine#3
Root
Brooks
Stokes
Bairstow*
Ali or quick
Wood (MUST PLAY)
Broad
3rd quick - Anderson** or Woakes

*JB's contribution, this Ashes, is in the negative column at the moment. I'd not object to Foakes. If JB was batting as well as he has prior to this Ashes I'd pick him. So... it's a gamble. No objection either way.
** based on form I don't think Anderson should get picked. But... he has well and truly earned enough brownie points to get selected again.

Ali at #3 is attractive but lazy. It means we can play a 4th quick. But the expense is exposing Root and Brooks to the new ball.
If I knew Ali was going to last 40 balls or get 30 runs.... I'd let him bat #3 in a heartbeat. It does solve a lot of problems.

I can even see the appeal of batting Stokes #3. Same benefit - get the extra bowler. But... I'd be extremely hesitant moving our best batsman right now.

The hidden issue is Stokes not being able to bowl. It means he's "just" a batting #6.
That means 4 bowlers (either 3 quicks+1 spin, or 4 quicks).

Brooks at #3 is also very tempting.

Tough job being a selector.

I have no firm answers.

On Tuesday, 11 July 2023 at 21:56:51 UTC+1, Steve Hague wrote:

> I can see the logic in this. Bairstow at his best is a much better
> batsman than Foakes, and an excellent keeper. Unfortunately a lay off
> like he's had means he's nowhere near his best. The old adage says that
> form is temporary, but class is permanent. Jonny has class. I'd be
> tempted to rest Broad and play Tongue, Wood has demonstrated the value
> of pace. If Mo wants to bat at 3, I'd let him.

With Robinson's back borked it's a good excuse to rest him as he's been unremarkable and Woakes/Tongue/Wood/Anderson might be interesting. That said Broad has a better average at OT than Anderson!

In message <81016c54-b95f-4589-944d-c304355b932dn@googlegroups.com>,
Richard Dixon <richsdixon1975@gmail.com> writes
>On Tuesday, 11 July 2023 at 21:56:51 UTC+1, Steve Hague wrote:
>
>> I can see the logic in this. Bairstow at his best is a much better
>> batsman than Foakes, and an excellent keeper. Unfortunately a lay off
>> like he's had means he's nowhere near his best. The old adage says that
>> form is temporary, but class is permanent. Jonny has class. I'd be
>> tempted to rest Broad and play Tongue, Wood has demonstrated the value
>> of pace. If Mo wants to bat at 3, I'd let him.
>
>With Robinson's back borked it's a good excuse to rest him as he's been
>unremarkable and Woakes/Tongue/Wood/Anderson might be interesting. That
>said Broad has a better average at OT than Anderson!

Surprisingly, Broad also has a better average against Australia than
Anderson. He's also been consistently good this summer.
--
John Hall "[It was] so steep that at intervals the street broke into steps,
like a person breaking into giggles or hiccups, and then resumed
its sober climb, until it had another fit of steps."
Ursula K Le Guin "The Beginning Place"

On 11/07/2023 21:56, Steve Hague wrote:
> On 11/07/2023 14:36, mike wrote:
>> England names unchanged squad, so Bairstow stays on as chief of the
>> missed chances. I almost hope he concusses himself with a 9 iron so
>> Foakes can come in, and we only have to get 20 wkts not 26 or more.
>> However it wouldnt surprise me if they name the same team
>> but surely yobbo is a liability ATM, and they have to decide who bats
>> at 3,
>> as clearly Brook is better at 5. Apparently Ali wanted to bat at 3,
>> perhaps
>> he wants to have a another go, but i dont see it working. I would tell OT
>> to prepare a traditional english seamers pitch which shouldnt be too
>> difficult given the weather forcast, and pick Anderson over yobbo.
>>
>> On another forum the oz are speculating the extent of stokes knee
>> surgery he will require and what type of cripple he will be in later
>> life.
>> Hopefully he will give it a rest for the next 10 days, perhaps cut out
>> all those dives around the boundary.
>>
>>   Ben Stokes (Durham, captain), Moeen Ali (Warwickshire), James
>> Anderson (Lancashire), Jonathan Bairstow (Yorkshire), Stuart Broad
>> (Nottinghamshire), Harry Brook (Yorkshire), Zak Crawley (Kent), Ben
>> Duckett (Nottinghamshire), Dan Lawrence (Essex),Ollie Robinson
>> (Sussex), Joe Root (Yorkshire), Josh Tongue (Worcestershire),Chris
>> Woakes (Warwickshire), Mark Wood (Durham).
>>
>> mike
>
> I can see the logic in this. Bairstow at his best is a much better
> batsman than Foakes, and an excellent keeper.

Maybe, but when was the last time he was both of those things in the
same match?

> Unfortunately a lay off
> like he's had means he's nowhere near his best.

Don't forget that, before his injury, when he made over 1000 runs last
year, he was not keeping wicket.

Andy Zaltzman has pointed out that his batting stats go downhill after
he has kept wicket. In Tests as wicket-keeper, he has averaged 52.70 in
the first innings of the match, 31.64 in innings 2 and 3 after keeping
once, and 16.64 in the 4th innings after keeping twice. He has made 5
centuries as keeper, but none of them after keeping (and none of them in
the last 5 years). He has not reached 40 in any of his last 19 innings
after keeping wicket since his 93 v India at Lord's in 2018 (and in that
case he hadn't kept for long, as India had been bowled out in 35.2
overs, and he didn't bat until the following day). Before that, we have
to go back a further 15 innings to find another 50 after keeping - 63 v
SA at The Oval in 2017 (again after a fairly short innings keeping -
58.4 overs - and not batting the same day).

For comparison, as a specialist batsman he averages 40.18 in the first
match innings, 30.62 in innings 2 and 3, and 52.72 in the 4th innings.

--
David North

On 14/07/2023 08:59, jack fredricks wrote:
> On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:48:43 PM UTC+10, David North wrote:
>> On 12/07/2023 10:34, jack fredricks wrote:
>>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 7:13:36 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
>>>> The only genuine #3 we have is Root, but of course he's always been
>>>> reluctant to bat there.
>>>
>>> I meant in the whole of England (and England qualified).
>> Yes, but even if they had someone to bring in, there would still be the
>> problem of who to leave out.
>
> Duckett
> Crawley
> Genuine#3
> Root
> Brooks

Brook

> Stokes
> Bairstow*
> Ali or quick
> Wood (MUST PLAY)
> Broad
> 3rd quick - Anderson** or Woakes
>
> *JB's contribution, this Ashes, is in the negative column at the moment. I'd not object to Foakes. If JB was batting as well as he has prior to this Ashes I'd pick him. So... it's a gamble. No objection either way.
> ** based on form I don't think Anderson should get picked. But... he has well and truly earned enough brownie points to get selected again.
>
> Ali at #3 is attractive but lazy. It means we can play a 4th quick. But the expense is exposing Root and Brooks to the new ball.
> If I knew Ali was going to last 40 balls or get 30 runs.... I'd let him bat #3 in a heartbeat. It does solve a lot of problems.
>
> I can even see the appeal of batting Stokes #3. Same benefit - get the extra bowler. But... I'd be extremely hesitant moving our best batsman right now.
>
> The hidden issue is Stokes not being able to bowl. It means he's "just" a batting #6.
> That means 4 bowlers (either 3 quicks+1 spin, or 4 quicks).

I don't think that's very hidden. It is presumably the main reason why
they didn't bring in someone else to bat at #3. If Stokes was fit to
bowl, my choice would probably be to have Foakes keeping and try
Bairstow at #3. There's a good chance that it would solve at least one
problem, if not two.

--
David North

On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 7:26:43 PM UTC+10, David North wrote:
> On 14/07/2023 08:59, jack fredricks wrote:
> > On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:48:43 PM UTC+10, David North wrote:
> >> On 12/07/2023 10:34, jack fredricks wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 7:13:36 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> >>>> The only genuine #3 we have is Root, but of course he's always been
> >>>> reluctant to bat there.
> >>>
> >>> I meant in the whole of England (and England qualified).
> >> Yes, but even if they had someone to bring in, there would still be the
> >> problem of who to leave out.
> >
> > Duckett
> > Crawley
> > Genuine#3
> > Root
> > Brooks
> Brook
> > Stokes
> > Bairstow*
> > Ali or quick
> > Wood (MUST PLAY)
> > Broad
> > 3rd quick - Anderson** or Woakes
> >
> > *JB's contribution, this Ashes, is in the negative column at the moment.. I'd not object to Foakes. If JB was batting as well as he has prior to this Ashes I'd pick him. So... it's a gamble. No objection either way.
> > ** based on form I don't think Anderson should get picked. But... he has well and truly earned enough brownie points to get selected again.
> >
> > Ali at #3 is attractive but lazy. It means we can play a 4th quick. But the expense is exposing Root and Brooks to the new ball.
> > If I knew Ali was going to last 40 balls or get 30 runs.... I'd let him bat #3 in a heartbeat. It does solve a lot of problems.
> >
> > I can even see the appeal of batting Stokes #3. Same benefit - get the extra bowler. But... I'd be extremely hesitant moving our best batsman right now.
> >
> > The hidden issue is Stokes not being able to bowl. It means he's "just" a batting #6.
> > That means 4 bowlers (either 3 quicks+1 spin, or 4 quicks).
> I don't think that's very hidden. It is presumably the main reason why
> they didn't bring in someone else to bat at #3. If Stokes was fit to
> bowl, my choice would probably be to have Foakes keeping and try
> Bairstow at #3. There's a good chance that it would solve at least one
> problem, if not two.
>
> --
> David North

DOESNT MATTER, aUSTRALIA IS CARRYING TO MUCH DEADWOOD IN ITS BATTING

On Wednesday, 12 July 2023 at 10:41:27 UTC+1, Robert Henderson wrote:
> >
> Wouldn't it be refreshing to have and attack of Wood, Tongue , Gus Atkinson and Broad.?
>
> RH

Yeah Broad's up for bowling on greentops like a fat girl is when browsing the Burger King menu when they've got a 2-for-1 offer on.

Shame he wasn't so keen to go to concrete pitches Pakistan recently......apparently "a baby" or something got in the way.

As bad as his father who had to be dragged off the pitch by Graham Gooch when he didn't agree with an umpire decision........the genes are strong in young Stuart.

On Saturday, July 15, 2023 at 10:26:43 AM UTC+1, David North wrote:
> On 14/07/2023 08:59, jack fredricks wrote:
> > On Friday, July 14, 2023 at 4:48:43 PM UTC+10, David North wrote:
> >> On 12/07/2023 10:34, jack fredricks wrote:
> >>> On Wednesday, July 12, 2023 at 7:13:36 PM UTC+10, John Hall wrote:
> >>>> The only genuine #3 we have is Root, but of course he's always been
> >>>> reluctant to bat there.
> >>>
> >>> I meant in the whole of England (and England qualified).
> >> Yes, but even if they had someone to bring in, there would still be the
> >> problem of who to leave out.
> >
> > Duckett
> > Crawley
> > Genuine#3
> > Root
> > Brooks
> Brook
> > Stokes
> > Bairstow*
> > Ali or quick
> > Wood (MUST PLAY)
> > Broad
> > 3rd quick - Anderson** or Woakes
> >
> > *JB's contribution, this Ashes, is in the negative column at the moment.. I'd not object to Foakes. If JB was batting as well as he has prior to this Ashes I'd pick him. So... it's a gamble. No objection either way.
> > ** based on form I don't think Anderson should get picked. But... he has well and truly earned enough brownie points to get selected again.
> >
> > Ali at #3 is attractive but lazy. It means we can play a 4th quick. But the expense is exposing Root and Brooks to the new ball.
> > If I knew Ali was going to last 40 balls or get 30 runs.... I'd let him bat #3 in a heartbeat. It does solve a lot of problems.
> >
> > I can even see the appeal of batting Stokes #3. Same benefit - get the extra bowler. But... I'd be extremely hesitant moving our best batsman right now.
> >
> > The hidden issue is Stokes not being able to bowl. It means he's "just" a batting #6.
> > That means 4 bowlers (either 3 quicks+1 spin, or 4 quicks).
> I don't think that's very hidden. It is presumably the main reason why
> they didn't bring in someone else to bat at #3. If Stokes was fit to
> bowl, my choice would probably be to have Foakes keeping and try
> Bairstow at #3. There's a good chance that it would solve at least one
> problem, if not two.
>

i agree: stokes not being able to bowl has upset the balance of the side,
so if they want 5 bowlers and bairstow as in the last test, they cant play foakes.

mike

https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-recall-james-anderson-fourth-ashes-test-old-trafford-1387954

Anderson recalled.
Robinson dropped/rested.
Ali to bat @ #3.

On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 10:55:18 AM UTC+1, jack fredricks wrote:
> https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-recall-james-anderson-fourth-ashes-test-old-trafford-1387954
>
> Anderson recalled.
> Robinson dropped/rested.
> Ali to bat @ #3.

at 3 hes a walking wkt, so i expect he'll just t20 everything.
not really what you want 1st down. i think at least 1 solid
run accumulator in the top 6 is desirable among all the bazballers.
you dont have to go for boundaries all the time.

clearly they are hoping for 1 last hurrah from jimmy. i just hope
they havnt dropped 1 semi fit bowler for another although hes had a decent
layoff. Oz have a good record at OT since 1985, unbeaten i think, and
if our batters play in their usual way now, and if they miss vital catches,
probably every chance this will continue, so my prediction of 4-1 to oz
remains unchanged.

mike

On Monday, 17 July 2023 at 22:26:56 UTC+1, mike wrote:
> On Monday, July 17, 2023 at 10:55:18 AM UTC+1, jack fredricks wrote:
> > https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-recall-james-anderson-fourth-ashes-test-old-trafford-1387954
> >
> > Anderson recalled.
> > Robinson dropped/rested.
> > Ali to bat @ #3.
> at 3 hes a walking wkt, so i expect he'll just t20 everything.
> not really what you want 1st down. i think at least 1 solid

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1TajDzX0AARUYa?format=jpg&name=large

Makes you think, though...