Well it had to come I suppose, the day that Nettie gave up the
ghost. Yesterday afternoon she started making grating noises as if the
fan or some motor bearings were worn out. I carefully monitored the
relevant temperatures with my 'Speccy' installation, and when one
temperature got to almost 80�C I turned the netbook off.
I had a brain wave and jetted some air from a 'Kleeneze' 'Nook and
cranny cleaner' through all Nettie's ventilation holes just on the off
chance that any muck or 'crud' we used to call it, could be dislodged.
After another 10 minutes running Nettie's groans and moans returned,
but not before I had established that it seemed like all web-pages I
attempted to open, including Google all produced a resulted in an error
message:
"Your clock is behind. A private connection to
'https://***********' can't be established because your computer's date
and time (Sunday, 2 January 2005 at 09:03:55) are incorrect"
The computer's time, in fact. is correct to within a few seconds.
But that message is one I was getting with some Scottish Wildlife webcam
sites earlier in the year. I think it's something to do with my XP
being incompatible with most modern websites, but why all the other
sites are causing it now, Nettie has gone well by her use by date.
:( Can't get through to Morrison's for my grocery deliveries or my
banking and CC sites either. So it's a matter of getting a more up to
date Laptop quickly, and my local computer repair shop does refurbished
laptops of all types, so I'm off there later today. They all come with
Windows 10 installed. How easy is it to set up my email accounts on
that?
And now for the BB problem. I was constantly getting connection
dropouts throughout the day. Even when I was typing posts to newsgroups
I spotted it, since when I clicked on send, I sometimes was getting
the message that my messaged had been sent to the outbox and would be
sent later. The I noticed that the signal had been lost and the router
was in the middle of doing a reboot.
I chatted to a plus net advisor and she said that I'd had a specific
number of dropouts during that day. She organised a visit from the
openreach engineer for this morning and advised be, that my 'phone line
is with Sky I should 'phone them and ask them to check the line. That
I did, and she did find faults with he line. She will phone me back
tomorrow to see if today's engineer cured anything, and may well then
get another engineer to come and look at the 'phone line. Strangely we
noticed, the PN advisor and myself that there were several dropped BB
connections whilst we were in conversation, implying that there may
well be a problem with the BB when the landline is in use.
I'm sure that there is a lot more going on for me to complain about,
but with my memory as it is these days, they may well have dropped out
too. :(
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

Flyi�g �u� 2�2� + wrote:
> Well it had to come I suppose, the day that Nettie gave up the
> ghost. Yesterday afternoon she started making grating noises as if
> the fan or some motor bearings were worn out. I carefully monitored
> the relevant temperatures with my 'Speccy' installation, and when one
> temperature got to almost 80�C I turned the netbook off.
> I had a brain wave and jetted some air from a 'Kleeneze' 'Nook and
> cranny cleaner' through all Nettie's ventilation holes just on the off
> chance that any muck or 'crud' we used to call it, could be dislodged.
> After another 10 minutes running Nettie's groans and moans returned,
> but not before I had established that it seemed like all web-pages I
> attempted to open, including Google all produced a resulted in an
> error message:
> "Your clock is behind. A private connection to
> 'https://***********' can't be established because your computer's
> date and time (Sunday, 2 January 2005 at 09:03:55) are incorrect"
> The computer's time, in fact. is correct to within a few seconds.
> But that message is one I was getting with some Scottish Wildlife
> webcam sites earlier in the year. I think it's something to do with
> my XP being incompatible with most modern websites, but why all the
> other sites are causing it now, Nettie has gone well by her use by
> date. :( Can't get through to Morrison's for my grocery deliveries
> or my banking and CC sites either. So it's a matter of getting a
> more up to date Laptop quickly, and my local computer repair shop
> does refurbished laptops of all types, so I'm off there later today.
> They all come with Windows 10 installed. How easy is it to set up my
> email accounts on that?
> And now for the BB problem. I was constantly getting connection
> dropouts throughout the day. Even when I was typing posts to
> newsgroups I spotted it, since when I clicked on send, I sometimes
> was getting the message that my messaged had been sent to the outbox
> and would be sent later. The I noticed that the signal had been lost
> and the router was in the middle of doing a reboot.
> I chatted to a plus net advisor and she said that I'd had a
> specific number of dropouts during that day. She organised a visit
> from the openreach engineer for this morning and advised be, that my
> 'phone line is with Sky I should 'phone them and ask them to check
> the line. That I did, and she did find faults with he line. She
> will phone me back tomorrow to see if today's engineer cured
> anything, and may well then get another engineer to come and look at
> the 'phone line. Strangely we noticed, the PN advisor and myself
> that there were several dropped BB connections whilst we were in
> conversation, implying that there may well be a problem with the BB
> when the landline is in use. I'm sure that there is a lot more
> going on for me to complain about, but with my memory as it is these
> days, they may well have dropped out too. :(
>
Nettie has now been running for an hour without any moans and groans and
the two 'critical temperatures are just 48�C and 49�C. I just don't
believe it!!! Unfortunately that doesn't help with downloading any
https:// sites.
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

On 09/12/2021 10:02, Flyiñg Ñuñ 2°2¹ + wrote:
> Flyiñg Ñuñ 2°2¹ + wrote:
>> Well it had to come I suppose, the day that Nettie gave up the
>> ghost. Yesterday afternoon she started making grating noises as if
>> the fan or some motor bearings were worn out. I carefully monitored
>> the relevant temperatures with my 'Speccy' installation, and when one
>> temperature got to almost 80ºC I turned the netbook off.
>> I had a brain wave and jetted some air from a 'Kleeneze' 'Nook and
>> cranny cleaner' through all Nettie's ventilation holes just on the off
>> chance that any muck or 'crud' we used to call it, could be dislodged.
>> After another 10 minutes running Nettie's groans and moans returned,
>> but not before I had established that it seemed like all web-pages I
>> attempted to open, including Google all produced a resulted in an
>> error message:
>> "Your clock is behind. A private connection to
>> 'https://***********' can't be established because your computer's
>> date and time (Sunday, 2 January 2005 at 09:03:55) are incorrect"
>> The computer's time, in fact. is correct to within a few seconds.
<snip>
> Nettie has now been running for an hour without any moans and groans and
> the two 'critical temperatures are just 48ºC and 49ºC. I just don't
> believe it!!! Unfortunately that doesn't help with downloading any
> https:// sites.

First the clock. In the bios is a real time clock. That is maintained by
a battery on the motherboard and it keeps to whatever time it was set
to. XP starts up by reading that clock, then checks the date and adds
an hour if it is in summer time. Then it collects the time from the
internet after it sets up the internet connection.

If the motherboard battery dies, the real time clock dies too, and the
BIOS also loses its memory of any changes to the defaults. When you
boot the machine, the main battery or the mains power (whichever is in
use) takes over from the motherboard battery and the clock starts from
whatever arbitrary origin is embedded in the bios, which resets the rest
of the settings to the defaults in the chip on the motherboard.

Now add the problem with the broadband, and if the broadband was not
functioning at the time that XP booted, it wouldn't have collected the
up-to-date date and time, and it only tries once a day, hence your
January 2005 date.

Now the noise and temperature. The cooling airflow draws air in, passes
it over the things that get hot, then through the fan which blows the
hot air out. There are no filters in the air path so dust can collect
inside and it can tangle with the fan blades. If the flow is reduced by
a blockage or the fan is jammed then things can overheat. Your nook and
cranny cleaner has probably re-opened the cooling air path.

If you feel confident about doing it, a new motherboard battery will
probably resurrect Nettie. You are looking for a button cell about the
size of a 10p coin and most are a CR2032. It will say on the battery
what number it is, so check it rather than act on my guess.

After you have changed the battery you will need to go into the BIOS
before XP tries to boot. How you get to the BIOS varies according to
whose it is, but usually it requires one of F2 F10 ESC or DEL. Some
BIOSs show it in the screen as part of the Power On Test, but otherwise
it will be trial and error. Once you are in the BIOS, you need to set
the time and date to GMT.

As for a replacement machine, some people are happy with Win10 and some
aren't. Your local computer repair shop might be prepared to provide
one with Win7 installed if you think that XP to Win10 is too big a jump
for you.

Jim

Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 09/12/2021 10:02, Flyi�g �u� 2�2� + wrote:
>> Flyi�g �u� 2�2� + wrote:
>>> Well it had to come I suppose, the day that Nettie gave up the
>>> ghost. Yesterday afternoon she started making grating noises as if
>>> the fan or some motor bearings were worn out. I carefully monitored
>>> the relevant temperatures with my 'Speccy' installation, and when
>>> one temperature got to almost 80�C I turned the netbook off.
>>> I had a brain wave and jetted some air from a 'Kleeneze' 'Nook
>>> and cranny cleaner' through all Nettie's ventilation holes just on
>>> the off chance that any muck or 'crud' we used to call it, could be
>>> dislodged. After another 10 minutes running Nettie's groans and
>>> moans returned, but not before I had established that it seemed
>>> like all web-pages I attempted to open, including Google all
>>> produced a resulted in an error message:
>>> "Your clock is behind. A private connection to
>>> 'https://***********' can't be established because your computer's
>>> date and time (Sunday, 2 January 2005 at 09:03:55) are incorrect"
>>> The computer's time, in fact. is correct to within a few
>>> seconds.
> <snip>
>> Nettie has now been running for an hour without any moans and groans
>> and the two 'critical temperatures are just 48�C and 49�C. I just
>> don't believe it!!! Unfortunately that doesn't help with
>> downloading any https:// sites.
>
> First the clock. In the bios is a real time clock. That is maintained
> by a battery on the motherboard and it keeps to whatever time it was
> set to. XP starts up by reading that clock, then checks the date and
> adds an hour if it is in summer time. Then it collects the time from
> the internet after it sets up the internet connection.
>
>
I think is all due to he new way that the web pages have some way of
checking on 'security', hence the 's' in https:// rather than the old
http:// way it was done. The first time I noticed it was in the late
spring on a couple of Scottish wildlife webcam pages. I got the exact
dame error message on those two site. I took Nettie to the computer vet
this afternoon and tried to show him the error message. There was an
error message but that just stated that it cwouldn't connest to the
page. Anyhow I left Nettie with him. He 'phoned me about an hour
later to say that he'd cleaned her all out inside and that the fan, in
fact, was OK.

> If the motherboard battery dies, the real time clock dies too, and the
> BIOS also loses its memory of any changes to the defaults. When you
> boot the machine, the main battery or the mains power (whichever is in
> use) takes over from the motherboard battery and the clock starts from
> whatever arbitrary origin is embedded in the bios, which resets the
> rest of the settings to the defaults in the chip on the motherboard.
>
> Now add the problem with the broadband, and if the broadband was not
> functioning at the time that XP booted, it wouldn't have collected the
> up-to-date date and time, and it only tries once a day, hence your
> January 2005 date.
>
> Now the noise and temperature. The cooling airflow draws air in,
> passes it over the things that get hot, then through the fan which
> blows the hot air out. There are no filters in the air path so dust
> can collect inside and it can tangle with the fan blades. If the
> flow is reduced by a blockage or the fan is jammed then things can
> overheat. Your nook and cranny cleaner has probably re-opened the
> cooling air path.
Yep it did have an effect, but after the pooter vet had cleaned her out
properly he was surpriesed at how much dust had congregated inside. The
fan was fine he reckoned too.
> If you feel confident about doing it, a new motherboard battery will
> probably resurrect Nettie. You are looking for a button cell about
> the size of a 10p coin and most are a CR2032. It will say on the
> battery what number it is, so check it rather than act on my guess.
>
Yep I have a small cache of 2032s in the draw next to me, together with
the AAs, AAAs and AG10s. It's surprising how many batteries I get
through in these modern times.
> After you have changed the battery you will need to go into the BIOS
> before XP tries to boot. How you get to the BIOS varies according to
> whose it is, but usually it requires one of F2 F10 ESC or DEL. Some
> BIOSs show it in the screen as part of the Power On Test, but
> otherwise it will be trial and error. Once you are in the BIOS, you
> need to set the time and date to GMT.
>
> As for a replacement machine, some people are happy with Win10 and
> some aren't. Your local computer repair shop might be prepared to
> provide one with Win7 installed if you think that XP to Win10 is too
> big a jump for you.
>
He doesn't do Windows 7 so all his refurbished laptops all have Windows
10. I did take one today it's a Toshiba Tecra Z50/15.6" Laptop
(refurbished) with:

Intel Core i5-6200/2.30Ghz CPU
125GB Solid State Drive
8GB RAM
Webcam
Bluetooth
Windows 10

So it's fun and games now, working out what it's all about. So far
I've managed to load one of my e-mail accounts (Googlemail) but for
some reason it won't accept the details of my Plusnet email addy. I've
tried to set it up in the "other POP/IMAC' but no luck. I've browsed
the net a bit too, but 99.9% on it either I'll never need or don't know
what it is or what it's for. As for the solid state drive, I just
heard that a more efficient way of storing that is much efficient both
speed and space wise, is an organic device which uses DNA. And
surprise, surprise it's only a decade away. Doesn't
scientific/technological progress astound you? It does me!!
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

On 09/12/2021 23:27, Flyiñg Ñuñ 2°2¹ + wrote:
> I think is all due to he new way that the web pages have some way of
> checking on 'security',

I had a similar problem with my XP machine, and somewhere on the web I
found an explanation that the type of machine is identified in the
Registry and sent out by the browser. There was a registry hack where I
changed the identification string to show that I was using a Windows7
64bit computer and a lot of the problems went away. The only thing I
couldn't get round was the Capcha routine which knew I was still using
an older machine.

Anyway, you are now set up with Win10, so that information is no real
use to you.

Jim

On 09/12/2021 in message <j1fhm8Fsr4fU1@mid.individual.net> Flyiñg Ñuñ
2°2¹ + wrote:

>So it's fun and games now, working out what it's all about. So far I've
>managed to load one of my e-mail accounts (Googlemail) but for some
>reason it won't accept the details of my Plusnet email addy. I've tried to
>set it up in the "other POP/IMAC' but no luck. I

Modern email programs are quite good at working out settings but sometimes
need help! PlusNet settings:

SMTP relay.plus.net
IMAP imap.plus.net

My email program is set to "no security" but others might say something
like "user name and password".

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
Indecision is the key to flexibility

Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 09/12/2021 in message <j1fhm8Fsr4fU1@mid.individual.net> Flyi�g �u�
> 2�2� + wrote:
>
>> So it's fun and games now, working out what it's all about. So far
>> I've managed to load one of my e-mail accounts (Googlemail) but for
>> some reason it won't accept the details of my Plusnet email addy.
>> I've tried to set it up in the "other POP/IMAC' but no luck. I
>
> Modern email programs are quite good at working out settings but
> sometimes need help! PlusNet settings:
>
> SMTP relay.plus.net
> IMAP imap.plus.net
>
> My email program is set to "no security" but others might say
> something like "user name and password".
>
Yet I know those Jeff but Windows 10 seems to set it all up after you
type in your email address. It was a doddle with my googlemail addy and
set it all up in a matter of seconds, but then there is a Google window
to type the address into. There are other windows for things like
Outlook, Office 365, Yahoo, iCloud and Other account (POP, IMAC). When
I type in my Plusnet addy it gives me an error message that says 'Some
Accounts require additional steps to sign in and that it couldn't find
info for my Plusnet account. They suggest several things that I could
try:
1 Change my password. The trouble with that is that when you type in the
first letter of the password you don't know whether it will be in upper
or lower case, and they have no link for showing the password. It
doesn't even show the digit for a short time as you type it like some
systems. There doesn't seem to be any way that you can in check that
you haven't made a typing error in your password.

2 Then there is lots of security information about SSE and all that
gubbins, and I just can't understand it. I've always said that I am IT
dyslexic but the ageing process seems have made even that worse than it
was. Oh!! PMJ where are you when you are really needed????
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 09/12/2021 23:27, Flyi�g �u� 2�2� + wrote:
>> I think is all due to he new way that the web pages have some way of
>> checking on 'security',
>
> I had a similar problem with my XP machine, and somewhere on the web I
> found an explanation that the type of machine is identified in the
> Registry and sent out by the browser. There was a registry hack
> where I changed the identification string to show that I was using a
> Windows7 64bit computer and a lot of the problems went away. The
> only thing I couldn't get round was the Capcha routine which knew I
> was still using an older machine.
>
I hsd the same trouble on Nova (XP desktop with an AMD processor) but
Nettie - the netbook, also with XP) never refused the Capcha routine
until last week, so the panic in getting a new operating system.
> Anyway, you are now set up with Win10, so that information is no real
> use to you.
>
> Jim
>
Oh no I'm not Jim and the way it's going I don't think that I ever will
be. See my reply to Jess and Email addies are just the start of it.
>
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

On 12/12/2021 in message <j1m9lhF6tsvU1@mid.individual.net> Flyiñg Ñuñ
2°2¹ + wrote:

>Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>On 09/12/2021 in message <j1fhm8Fsr4fU1@mid.individual.net> Flyiñg Ñuñ
>>2°2¹ + wrote:
>>
>>>So it's fun and games now, working out what it's all about. So far
>>>I've managed to load one of my e-mail accounts (Googlemail) but for
>>>some reason it won't accept the details of my Plusnet email addy.
>>>I've tried to set it up in the "other POP/IMAC' but no luck. I
>>
>>Modern email programs are quite good at working out settings but
>>sometimes need help! PlusNet settings:
>>
>>SMTP relay.plus.net
>>IMAP imap.plus.net
>>
>>My email program is set to "no security" but others might say
>>something like "user name and password".
>>
>Yet I know those Jeff but Windows 10 seems to set it all up after you type
>in your email address. It was a doddle with my googlemail addy and set it
>all up in a matter of seconds, but then there is a Google window to type
>the address into. There are other windows for things like Outlook, Office
>365, Yahoo, iCloud and Other account (POP, IMAC). When I type in my
>Plusnet addy it gives me an error message that says 'Some Accounts require
>additional steps to sign in and that it couldn't find info for my Plusnet
>account. They suggest several things that I could try:
>1 Change my password. The trouble with that is that when you type in the
>first letter of the password you don't know whether it will be in upper or
>lower case, and they have no link for showing the password. It doesn't
>even show the digit for a short time as you type it like some systems.
>There doesn't seem to be any way that you can in check that you haven't
>made a typing error in your password.
>
>2 Then there is lots of security information about SSE and all that
>gubbins, and I just can't understand it. I've always said that I am IT
>dyslexic but the ageing process seems have made even that worse than it
>was. Oh!! PMJ where are you when you are really needed????

I'm surprised it can't find Plusnet's details but there is usually an
option to enter details manually, if you do that using the settings in my
earlier post it should work.

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
Those are my principles – and if you don’t like them, well, I have others.
(Groucho Marx)

On 12/12/2021 12:59, Flyiñg Ñuñ 2°2¹ + wrote:
> Indy Jess John wrote:

>> Anyway, you are now set up with Win10, so that information is no real
>> use to you.
>>
>> Jim
>>
> Oh no I'm not Jim and the way it's going I don't think that I ever will
> be. See my reply to Jess and Email addies are just the start of it.
>>

If you are prepared to use Thunderbird rather than Edge for e-mail,
Thunderbird knows what the default parameters are for almost any email
service. Add "New Email" and fill in the appropriate Plusnet service
name (Jeff gave you the details) and it should give you a working set of
other values that you can tweak later if you want to.

As for Win10, a while ago I bought a cheap recycled HP tower which had
Win10 newly installed on it by the helpful seller. I wasn't interested
in that, I just wanted a cheap and cheerful to install Linux on to
experiment with in an environment where it didn't matter if I mucked
things up because I could always re-install over the top and try again,
whereas my laptop with Linux on does useful work and I wouldn't add
anything to it unless it was tried and tested on my disposable one.

In the light of your fun (?) with Win10 I decided to boot Win10 instead
of Linux and have a look at it. That is where my fun started. The
mouse I was using came with an adapter that converted its native USB
connection into a PS2 one, so when I got nowhere with the mouse I took
the adapter off and as a USB mouse it just worked.

The keyboard has a PS2 native end though. I could use my PS2 keyboard in
Linux, I could use my PS2 keyboard to amend the BIOS parameters, but I
couldn't persuade Win10 to notice anything I typed on the keyboard.

Curious, I used just the mouse to go into Device Manager, and there was
a keyboard listed under the devices, and when I looked at the
properties, it had USB Keyboard as the driver. A hunt round Google later
(on my XP machine), I discovered that the Win10 keyboard and mouse
parameters were set up at install time, and obviously whoever did it
used a USB connection.

I found a PS2 driver for Win10 online, but it was for a gaming keyboard
with lots of extra keys and the write-up described how to configure
them, so I decided not to risk it. I have now ordered a USB keyboard
from ebay and am waiting for it to arrive.

I can see why you are not enjoying Win10 either!

Jim

Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 12/12/2021 in message <j1m9lhF6tsvU1@mid.individual.net> Flyi�g �u�
> 2�2� + wrote:
>
>> Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>> On 09/12/2021 in message <j1fhm8Fsr4fU1@mid.individual.net> Flyi�g
>>> �u� 2�2� + wrote:
>>>
>>>> So it's fun and games now, working out what it's all about. So
>>>> far I've managed to load one of my e-mail accounts (Googlemail) but
>>>> for some reason it won't accept the details of my Plusnet
>>>> email addy. I've tried to set it up in the "other POP/IMAC' but no
>>>> luck. I
>>>
>>> Modern email programs are quite good at working out settings but
>>> sometimes need help! PlusNet settings:
>>>
>>> SMTP relay.plus.net
>>> IMAP imap.plus.net
>>>
>>> My email program is set to "no security" but others might say
>>> something like "user name and password".
>>>
>> Yet I know those Jeff but Windows 10 seems to set it all up after
>> you type in your email address. It was a doddle with my googlemail
>> addy and set it all up in a matter of seconds, but then there is a
>> Google window to type the address into. There are other windows for
>> things like Outlook, Office 365, Yahoo, iCloud and Other account
>> (POP, IMAC). When I type in my Plusnet addy it gives me an error
>> message that says 'Some Accounts require additional steps to sign in
>> and that it couldn't find info for my Plusnet account. They suggest
>> several things that I could try: 1 Change my password. The trouble
>> with that is that when you type in the first letter of the password
>> you don't know whether it will be in upper or lower case, and they
>> have no link for showing the password. It doesn't even show the
>> digit for a short time as you type it like some systems. There
>> doesn't seem to be any way that you can in check that you haven't
>> made a typing error in your password. 2 Then there is lots of
>> security information about SSE and all that
>> gubbins, and I just can't understand it. I've always said that I am
>> IT dyslexic but the ageing process seems have made even that worse
>> than it was. Oh!! PMJ where are you when you are really needed????
>
> I'm surprised it can't find Plusnet's details but there is usually an
> option to enter details manually, if you do that using the settings
> in my earlier post it should work.
>
I've not seen that option anywhere Jeff but look again, more carefully
and not in my current mode.
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 12/12/2021 12:59, Flyi�g �u� 2�2� + wrote:
>> Indy Jess John wrote:
>
>>> Anyway, you are now set up with Win10, so that information is no
>>> real use to you.
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>> Oh no I'm not Jim and the way it's going I don't think that I ever
>> will be. See my reply to Jess and Email addies are just the start
>> of it.
>>>
>
> If you are prepared to use Thunderbird rather than Edge for e-mail,
> Thunderbird knows what the default parameters are for almost any email
> service. Add "New Email" and fill in the appropriate Plusnet service
> name (Jeff gave you the details) and it should give you a working set
> of other values that you can tweak later if you want to.
>
> As for Win10, a while ago I bought a cheap recycled HP tower which had
> Win10 newly installed on it by the helpful seller. I wasn't
> interested in that, I just wanted a cheap and cheerful to install
> Linux on to experiment with in an environment where it didn't matter
> if I mucked things up because I could always re-install over the top
> and try again, whereas my laptop with Linux on does useful work and I
> wouldn't add anything to it unless it was tried and tested on my
> disposable one.
> In the light of your fun (?) with Win10 I decided to boot Win10
> instead of Linux and have a look at it. That is where my fun
> started. The mouse I was using came with an adapter that converted
> its native USB connection into a PS2 one, so when I got nowhere with
> the mouse I took the adapter off and as a USB mouse it just worked.
>
> The keyboard has a PS2 native end though. I could use my PS2 keyboard
> in Linux, I could use my PS2 keyboard to amend the BIOS parameters,
> but I couldn't persuade Win10 to notice anything I typed on the
> keyboard.
> Curious, I used just the mouse to go into Device Manager, and there
> was a keyboard listed under the devices, and when I looked at the
> properties, it had USB Keyboard as the driver. A hunt round Google
> later (on my XP machine), I discovered that the Win10 keyboard and
> mouse parameters were set up at install time, and obviously whoever
> did it used a USB connection.
>
> I found a PS2 driver for Win10 online, but it was for a gaming
> keyboard with lots of extra keys and the write-up described how to
> configure them, so I decided not to risk it. I have now ordered a
> USB keyboard from ebay and am waiting for it to arrive.
>
> I can see why you are not enjoying Win10 either!
>
> Jim
>
Ah!! I didn't realise that there was an email facility in Edge. I was
trying to use the Mail icon on the bottom toolbar. The only thing I
know about Edge is the icon is to run it. Must look at that.
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

On 12/12/2021 21:22, Flyi�g �u� 2�2� + wrote:
> Ah!! I didn't realise that there was an email facility in Edge. I was
> trying to use the Mail icon on the bottom toolbar. The only thing I
> know about Edge is the icon is to run it. Must look at that.

If I were you I would download Thunderbird. You could use that for email
and also Usenet. And there are others here who could support you with
settings in Thunderbird.

Free download:

https://www.thunderbird.net/en-GB/

--
Oliver

On 12/12/2021 21:22, Flyiñg Ñuñ 2°2¹ + wrote:

> Ah!! I didn't realise that there was an email facility in Edge. I was
> trying to use the Mail icon on the bottom toolbar. The only thing I
> know about Edge is the icon is to run it. Must look at that.

I have just doubly-checked and Edge is just a browser that can be used
to access webmail services.

There is a Win10 Mail client.
By default it sets you up an IMAP service:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/set-up-email-in-the-mail-app-7ff79e8b-439b-4b47-8ff9-3f9a33166c60

If you prefer a POP client, there is a different method of setting up.
https://www.claranetsoho.co.uk/support/email/setup/setting-email-windows-10-mail-pop-mailbox

Feel free to experiment, and good luck!
I would still favour Thunderbird. It does e-mails and it does text
newsgroups.

Jim

Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 12/12/2021 21:22, Flyi�g �u� 2�2� + wrote:
>
>> Ah!! I didn't realise that there was an email facility in Edge. I
>> was trying to use the Mail icon on the bottom toolbar. The only
>> thing I know about Edge is the icon is to run it. Must look at
>> that.
>
> I have just doubly-checked and Edge is just a browser that can be used
> to access webmail services.
>
> There is a Win10 Mail client.
> By default it sets you up an IMAP service:
> https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/office/set-up-email-in-the-mail-app-7ff79e8b-439b-4b47-8ff9-3f9a33166c60
>
> If you prefer a POP client, there is a different method of setting up.
> https://www.claranetsoho.co.uk/support/email/setup/setting-email-windows-10-mail-pop-mailbox
>
> Feel free to experiment, and good luck!
> I would still favour Thunderbird. It does e-mails and it does text
> newsgroups.
>
> Jim
>
I've so much to set up before I get round to that Jim. As and when I
get round to emails again I'll have give that a go, but I did try it
some years ago, and couldn't get on with it then.
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

Flyi�g �u� 2�2� + wrote:
> Indy Jess John wrote:
>> On 12/12/2021 12:59, Flyi�g �u� 2�2� + wrote:
>>> Indy Jess John wrote:
>>
>>>> Anyway, you are now set up with Win10, so that information is no
>>>> real use to you.
>>>>
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>> Oh no I'm not Jim and the way it's going I don't think that I ever
>>> will be. See my reply to Jess and Email addies are just the start
>>> of it.
>>>>
>>
>> If you are prepared to use Thunderbird rather than Edge for e-mail,
>> Thunderbird knows what the default parameters are for almost any
>> email service. Add "New Email" and fill in the appropriate Plusnet
>> service name (Jeff gave you the details) and it should give you a
>> working set of other values that you can tweak later if you want to.
>>
>> As for Win10, a while ago I bought a cheap recycled HP tower which
>> had Win10 newly installed on it by the helpful seller. I wasn't
>> interested in that, I just wanted a cheap and cheerful to install
>> Linux on to experiment with in an environment where it didn't matter
>> if I mucked things up because I could always re-install over the top
>> and try again, whereas my laptop with Linux on does useful work and I
>> wouldn't add anything to it unless it was tried and tested on my
>> disposable one.
>> In the light of your fun (?) with Win10 I decided to boot Win10
>> instead of Linux and have a look at it. That is where my fun
>> started. The mouse I was using came with an adapter that converted
>> its native USB connection into a PS2 one, so when I got nowhere with
>> the mouse I took the adapter off and as a USB mouse it just worked.
>>
>> The keyboard has a PS2 native end though. I could use my PS2 keyboard
>> in Linux, I could use my PS2 keyboard to amend the BIOS parameters,
>> but I couldn't persuade Win10 to notice anything I typed on the
>> keyboard.
>> Curious, I used just the mouse to go into Device Manager, and there
>> was a keyboard listed under the devices, and when I looked at the
>> properties, it had USB Keyboard as the driver. A hunt round Google
>> later (on my XP machine), I discovered that the Win10 keyboard and
>> mouse parameters were set up at install time, and obviously whoever
>> did it used a USB connection.
>>
>> I found a PS2 driver for Win10 online, but it was for a gaming
>> keyboard with lots of extra keys and the write-up described how to
>> configure them, so I decided not to risk it. I have now ordered a
>> USB keyboard from ebay and am waiting for it to arrive.
>>
>> I can see why you are not enjoying Win10 either!
>>
>> Jim
>>
> Ah!! I didn't realise that there was an email facility in Edge. I
> was trying to use the Mail icon on the bottom toolbar. The only
> thing I know about Edge is the icon is to run it. Must look at that.

Had a little success this morning. I got the printer working I don't
what I did,
it was easy peasy, but I don't remember the route I went to get to an
add printer page. When I eventually did the available printer was just
sitting there in a short list. So all I had to do was select printer
and click on 'Add Printer' and it added my printer all by itself.
I also managed to get my Plusnet email to work too. I tried to
enter it Outlook but that didn't work. I'd also, yesterday, had tried
it in other POP/Imac, and didn't work. Next was to try Google (where
my Googlemail account was) and that eventually got to page where I
could enter all the servers and security settings. Lo and behold, that
added all my details and up popped my rose of white details in a list
next to my googlemail account. At the head of the it says Inbox -
Gmail, but I don't really know what Windows
but I couldn't tell you how I got to the correct place to fill in all
the details.
Any how both my Googlemail and Plusnet accounts seem to be both managed
by Gmail. I've tested it by sending mail from the Plusnet account to my
Googlemail account - received successfully. So I can now mail out and as
the roseofwhite inbox already had 12 new messages in it I presume I can
receive mail too.
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

Flyiñg Ñuñ 2°2¹ + <flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com> wrote:
> Flyiņg Ņuņ 2°2š + wrote:
>> Well it had to come I suppose, the day that Nettie gave up the
>> ghost. Yesterday afternoon she started making grating noises

Don’t we all .. lol Time to retire Nettie gracefully me thinks …

--
§mokey

Smokey wrote:
> Flyi�g �u� 2�2� + <flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com> wrote:
>> Flying Nun 2�2s + wrote:
>>> Well it had to come I suppose, the day that Nettie gave up the
>>> ghost. Yesterday afternoon she started making grating noises
>
> Don't we all .. lol Time to retired Nettie gracefully me thinks .
>
Strangely enough she returned home and is again silent, and lots of the
websites that wouldn't load before will load again. Not bad for �20.
And now I have 'Tosh' a much more modern Laptop (Toshiba Tecra Z50) with
an SSD drive and 8GB RAM and Windows10 to play with over Christmas.
although I reckon I'll need much more time than I've got left to sort
out W10. 'Tosh' was going to be Nettie's replacement and is set up now
to do the things I needed to do on aging Nettie. So now that she's back
I'll have much more time to 'play' with Windows 10. I have a 'Windows
10 for Dummies winging it's way here from Amazon to make my task a
little easier.
--
Heard melodies are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

On 17/12/2021 in message <j239g5Fm020U2@mid.individual.net> Flyiñg Ñuñ
2°2¹ + wrote:

>I have a 'Windows
>10 for Dummies winging it's way here from Amazon to make my task a
>little easier.

Windows 10 is pretty similar to previous versions, that was always the
selling point of Windows, use one version and you can use them all, find
your way round one app you can find your way round them all. It's mostly
true, the stuff that is now more hidden is more nerd territory so may not
be too much of an issue.

If you want it to be even more like older versions then Open Shell is the
answer:

https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu

It's the modern version of Classic Shell and is a Yorkshireman's favourite
price :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
If it's not broken, mess around with it until it is

On 17/12/2021 12:19, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 17/12/2021 in message <j239g5Fm020U2@mid.individual.net> Flyiñg Ñuñ
> 2°2¹ + wrote:
>
>> I have a 'Windows
>> 10 for Dummies winging it's way here from Amazon to make my task a
>> little easier.
>
> Windows 10 is pretty similar to previous versions, that was always the
> selling point of Windows, use one version and you can use them all, find
> your way round one app you can find your way round them all. It's mostly
> true, the stuff that is now more hidden is more nerd territory so may
> not be too much of an issue.
>
> If you want it to be even more like older versions then Open Shell is
> the answer:
>
> https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
>
> It's the modern version of Classic Shell and is a Yorkshireman's
> favourite price :-)
>

I agree about the similarity to previous Windows, and I am just a user,
not a nerd.
One possible problem with Windows 10 could be compatibility (or rather
lack of it) with older peripherals. From evidence posted here I don't
think I am likely to insult FN when I say he likes to keep things to the
bitter end, so may have to connect some older bits and pieces!

--
Sent from my laptop.

On 17/12/2021 in message <spi1ap$kkc$1@gioia.aioe.org> Peter Hawkins wrote:

>On 17/12/2021 12:19, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>On 17/12/2021 in message <j239g5Fm020U2@mid.individual.net> Flyiñg Ñuñ
>>2°2¹ + wrote:
>>
>>>I have a 'Windows
>>>10 for Dummies winging it's way here from Amazon to make my task a
>>>little easier.
>>
>>Windows 10 is pretty similar to previous versions, that was always the
>>selling point of Windows, use one version and you can use them all, find
>>your way round one app you can find your way round them all. It's mostly
>>true, the stuff that is now more hidden is more nerd territory so may not
>>be too much of an issue.
>>
>>If you want it to be even more like older versions then Open Shell is the
>>answer:
>>
>>https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
>>
>>It's the modern version of Classic Shell and is a Yorkshireman's
>>favourite price :-)
>>
>
>I agree about the similarity to previous Windows, and I am just a user,
>not a nerd.
>One possible problem with Windows 10 could be compatibility (or rather
>lack of it) with older peripherals. From evidence posted here I don't
>think I am likely to insult FN when I say he likes to keep things to the
>bitter end, so may have to connect some older bits and pieces!

He's a Yorkshireman, I expect he'll take Nessie to his grave :-)

--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
Every day is a good day for chicken, unless you're a chicken.

On 17/12/2021 12:19, Jeff Gaines wrote:

> Windows 10 is pretty similar to previous versions, that was always the
> selling point of Windows, use one version and you can use them all, find
> your way round one app you can find your way round them all. It's mostly
> true, the stuff that is now more hidden is more nerd territory so may not
> be too much of an issue.

Going straight from XP to Win10 (which FN is doing) is nevertheless
quite a learning curve, because MS assume everyone has gone through the
versions between.

Take the simple(?) task of deciding a problem can be solved by reverting
to an earlier saved point. On XP you just press F8 as the system starts
to load and you get offered various recovery options. Try that with W10
and you find that F8 does absolutely nothing so it continues to load.
XP uses workgroups and shares for communicating between computers, W10
uses Neighbourhoods. There are various other presentation issues.

Yes applications behave similarly between versions in use, but setting
them up after an initial installation isn't always comparable.

Jim

Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 17/12/2021 in message <j239g5Fm020U2@mid.individual.net> Flyi�g �u�
> 2�2� + wrote:
>
>> I have a 'Windows
>> 10 for Dummies winging it's way here from Amazon to make my task a
>> little easier.
>
> Windows 10 is pretty similar to previous versions, that was always the
> selling point of Windows, use one version and you can use them all,
> find your way round one app you can find your way round them all.
> It's mostly true, the stuff that is now more hidden is more nerd
> territory so may not be too much of an issue.
>
> If you want it to be even more like older versions then Open Shell is
> the answer:
>
> https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
>
> It's the modern version of Classic Shell and is a Yorkshireman's
> favourite price :-)

But rather than a step from Windows10 to Windows11 I'm making a gigantic
leap from Windows XP to Windows 10. Still I'm making baby steps at the
moment. Now got my AVG Internet Security installed on 'Tosh' too. As I
already was using a multi-device version I sort of get it for free.
Also, since Nettie came home she's been able to show most of the
websites she stopped connecting to before, So almost back to normal,
but compared to 'Tosh' she's so slow.
--
Heard messages are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 17/12/2021 in message <spi1ap$kkc$1@gioia.aioe.org> Peter Hawkins
> wrote:
>> On 17/12/2021 12:19, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>>> On 17/12/2021 in message <j239g5Fm020U2@mid.individual.net> Flyi�g
>>> �u� 2�2� + wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have a 'Windows
>>>> 10 for Dummies winging it's way here from Amazon to make my task a
>>>> little easier.
>>>
>>> Windows 10 is pretty similar to previous versions, that was always
>>> the selling point of Windows, use one version and you can use them
>>> all, find your way round one app you can find your way round them
>>> all. It's mostly true, the stuff that is now more hidden is more
>>> nerd territory so may not be too much of an issue.
>>>
>>> If you want it to be even more like older versions then Open Shell
>>> is the answer:
>>>
>>> https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
>>>
>>> It's the modern version of Classic Shell and is a Yorkshireman's
>>> favourite price :-)
>>>
>>
>> I agree about the similarity to previous Windows, and I am just a
>> user, not a nerd.
>> One possible problem with Windows 10 could be compatibility (or
>> rather lack of it) with older peripherals. From evidence posted here
>> I don't think I am likely to insult FN when I say he likes to keep
>> things to the bitter end, so may have to connect some older bits and
>> pieces!
>
> He's a Yorkshireman, I expect he'll take Nessie to his grave :-)
>
A policy which if everyone had rigidly stuck to we wouldn't yet be
staring the Climate Change problem in the face. The world wide throw
away practice habit would have saved lots of the Eart's resources, And
Nessie is only a rumour, Nettie is what I named my Netbook. :)
--
Heard messages are sweet but those Unheard are sweeter.
FN 2�2�+. Mungo Brandybuck of Buckland..
flyingnun@roseofwhite.plus.com

On 17/12/2021 23:22, Flyiñg Ñuñ 2°2¹ + wrote:
> Jeff Gaines wrote:
>> On 17/12/2021 in message<j239g5Fm020U2@mid.individual.net> Flyiñg Ñuñ
>> 2°2¹ + wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 'Windows
>>> 10 for Dummies winging it's way here from Amazon to make my task a
>>> little easier.
>>
>> Windows 10 is pretty similar to previous versions, that was always the
>> selling point of Windows, use one version and you can use them all,
>> find your way round one app you can find your way round them all.
>> It's mostly true, the stuff that is now more hidden is more nerd
>> territory so may not be too much of an issue.
>>
>> If you want it to be even more like older versions then Open Shell is
>> the answer:
>>
>> https://github.com/Open-Shell/Open-Shell-Menu
>>
>> It's the modern version of Classic Shell and is a Yorkshireman's
>> favourite price :-)
>
> But rather than a step from Windows10 to Windows11 I'm making a gigantic
> leap from Windows XP to Windows 10. Still I'm making baby steps at the
> moment. Now got my AVG Internet Security installed on 'Tosh' too. As I
> already was using a multi-device version I sort of get it for free.
> Also, since Nettie came home she's been able to show most of the
> websites she stopped connecting to before, So almost back to normal,
> but compared to 'Tosh' she's so slow.

Could you add extra memory? That can make quite a difference.
https://uk.crucial.com/store/systemscanner will tell you what is
currently installed and identify possible upgrades.

It doesn't install anything on your computer when you run it.

Jim