From
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/07/01/hs2-hit-second-legal-challenge-28bn-train-contract/>

HS2 is being sued by German manufacturer Siemens over the handling of a
£2.8bn train building contract - just days after it was forced to settle a
similar challenge by a rival bidder.

The legal action comes as Siemens is set to be overlooked in the
procurement process with the contract to build 54 high-speed trains to be
awarded to a joint venture between Hitachi and Bombardier [ie, Alstom].

Siemens' move marks the second legal challenge against the flagship HS2
procurement process. Spanish firm Talgo struck an out of court settlement
with the state-backed train line earlier this week after being told it had
not made round five of the auction.

....

Sources close to HS2 and the Government insisted that the procurement had
not been bungled. HS2 unveiled a long list of manufacturers for the
contract to build 54 trains in 2017.

France’s Alstom, and CAF, the Spanish-listed train manufacturer, are also
expected to miss out.

On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 09:24:34 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>From
>
><https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2021/07/01/hs2-hit-second-legal-challenge
>-28bn-train-contract/>
>
>HS2 is being sued by German manufacturer Siemens over the handling of a
>£2.8bn train building contract - just days after it was forced to settle a
>similar challenge by a rival bidder.
>
>The legal action comes as Siemens is set to be overlooked in the
>procurement process with the contract to build 54 high-speed trains to be
>awarded to a joint venture between Hitachi and Bombardier [ie, Alstom].
>
>Siemens' move marks the second legal challenge against the flagship HS2
>procurement process. Spanish firm Talgo struck an out of court settlement
>with the state-backed train line earlier this week after being told it had
>not made round five of the auction.

I'm no fan of HS2 , but there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What the hell
is wrong with them?

On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:

> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What the hell
> is wrong with them?

It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
they win.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:23:46 +0100
Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:
>
>> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
>> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
>> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
>> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What the hell
>
>> is wrong with them?
>
>It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
>processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
>they win.

The losers of course being the taxpayer who has to fund the legal defense,
not that these psychopath CEOs would give a toss.

In message <sbufbv$klt$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:20:15 on Mon, 5 Jul
2021, MrSpud_kekglfagqd@fhu.info remarked:
>On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:23:46 +0100
>Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>>On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:
>>
>>> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
>>> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
>>> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
>>> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What
>>>the hell
>>
>>> is wrong with them?
>>
>>It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
>>processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
>>they win.
>
>The losers of course being the taxpayer who has to fund the legal defense,
>not that these psychopath CEOs would give a toss.

The CEO would probably argue that his job was to make sure that
shareholders and staff weren't the losers, that his firm had a green
light, kept on the rails, and didn't hit the buffers.
--
Roland Perry

On 05/07/2021 09:20, MrSpud_kekglfagqd@fhu.info wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:23:46 +0100
> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:
>>
>>> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
>>> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
>>> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
>>> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What the hell
>>
>>> is wrong with them?
>>
>> It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
>> processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
>> they win.
>
> The losers of course being the taxpayer who has to fund the legal defense,
> not that these psychopath CEOs would give a toss.
>

Compared to the costs of the legal challenge the returns from a win are
so great that the investment in making the challenge is considered
worthwhile.

Unfortunately this is becoming an industry norm.

On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:50:37 +0100
Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>In message <sbufbv$klt$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:20:15 on Mon, 5 Jul
>2021, MrSpud_kekglfagqd@fhu.info remarked:
>>On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:23:46 +0100
>>Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:
>>>
>>>> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
>>>> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
>>>> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
>>>> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What
>>>>the hell
>>>
>>>> is wrong with them?
>>>
>>>It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
>>>processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
>>>they win.
>>
>>The losers of course being the taxpayer who has to fund the legal defense,
>>not that these psychopath CEOs would give a toss.
>
>The CEO would probably argue that his job was to make sure that
>shareholders and staff weren't the losers, that his firm had a green
>light, kept on the rails, and didn't hit the buffers.

There is a certain level of social responsibility that every citizen should
hold themselves to regardless of their jobs.

On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:37:23 +0100
martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>On 05/07/2021 09:20, MrSpud_kekglfagqd@fhu.info wrote:
>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:23:46 +0100
>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:
>>>
>>>> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
>>>> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
>>>> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
>>>> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What the
>hell
>>>
>>>> is wrong with them?
>>>
>>> It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
>>> processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
>>> they win.
>>
>> The losers of course being the taxpayer who has to fund the legal defense,
>> not that these psychopath CEOs would give a toss.
>>
>
>Compared to the costs of the legal challenge the returns from a win are
>so great that the investment in making the challenge is considered
>worthwhile.
>
>Unfortunately this is becoming an industry norm.

There should be legal comeback on any directors who undertake speculative
legal proceedings with personal fines to be decided by the court.

<MrSpud_nvR6m_@qthp7cyi.ac.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:50:37 +0100
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sbufbv$klt$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:20:15 on Mon, 5 Jul
>> 2021, MrSpud_kekglfagqd@fhu.info remarked:
>>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:23:46 +0100
>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
>>>>> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
>>>>> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
>>>>> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What
>>>>> the hell
>>>>
>>>>> is wrong with them?
>>>>
>>>> It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
>>>> processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
>>>> they win.
>>>
>>> The losers of course being the taxpayer who has to fund the legal defense,
>>> not that these psychopath CEOs would give a toss.
>>
>> The CEO would probably argue that his job was to make sure that
>> shareholders and staff weren't the losers, that his firm had a green
>> light, kept on the rails, and didn't hit the buffers.
>
> There is a certain level of social responsibility that every citizen should
> hold themselves to regardless of their jobs.

They presumably believe that the tendering rules haven't been followed
correctly, which is very likely. The fact that another unsuccessful bidder
apparently collected an out-of-court settlement would appear to confirm
that.

It may be that the DfT has been informed that the Derby and Newton Aycliffe
factories were short of future orders, and would probably close if they
didn't get the HS2 contract. Conversely, the Goole final assembly plant can
probably survive on a stream of LU Tube train orders.

At a technical level, Hitachi, with experience of Mini Shinkansens, is
probably the bidder with the most relevant experience for the HS2 fleet.
The E6 won't need many changes to meet the HS2 requirements. Conversely,
the Velaros would need to be redesigned.

<https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/25803344443/in/album-72157664801093584/>

<MrSpud_5ku_p@1lm131gx7b.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:37:23 +0100
> martin.coffee@round-midnight.org.uk wrote:
>> On 05/07/2021 09:20, MrSpud_kekglfagqd@fhu.info wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:23:46 +0100
>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
>>>>> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
>>>>> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
>>>>> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What the
>> hell
>>>>
>>>>> is wrong with them?
>>>>
>>>> It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
>>>> processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
>>>> they win.
>>>
>>> The losers of course being the taxpayer who has to fund the legal defense,
>>> not that these psychopath CEOs would give a toss.
>>>
>>
>> Compared to the costs of the legal challenge the returns from a win are
>> so great that the investment in making the challenge is considered
>> worthwhile.
>>
>> Unfortunately this is becoming an industry norm.
>
> There should be legal comeback on any directors who undertake speculative
> legal proceedings with personal fines to be decided by the court.
>
>

Given that Talgo apparently received a settlement, that suggests that the
DfT is the one at fault. Should Shapps be fined personally?

In message <sbun82$9sp$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 10:34:43 on Mon, 5 Jul
2021, MrSpud_nvR6m_@qthp7cyi.ac.uk remarked:
>On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:50:37 +0100
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>In message <sbufbv$klt$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:20:15 on Mon, 5 Jul
>>2021, MrSpud_kekglfagqd@fhu.info remarked:
>>>On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:23:46 +0100
>>>Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
>>>>> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
>>>>> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
>>>>> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What
>>>>>the hell
>>>>
>>>>> is wrong with them?
>>>>
>>>>It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
>>>>processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
>>>>they win.
>>>
>>>The losers of course being the taxpayer who has to fund the legal defense,
>>>not that these psychopath CEOs would give a toss.
>>
>>The CEO would probably argue that his job was to make sure that
>>shareholders and staff weren't the losers, that his firm had a green
>>light, kept on the rails, and didn't hit the buffers.
>
>There is a certain level of social responsibility that every citizen should
>hold themselves to regardless of their jobs.

Which they discharge by keeping their staff (and the staff of the local
supply chain) from being unemployed.
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:50:17 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
><MrSpud_nvR6m_@qthp7cyi.ac.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:50:37 +0100
>> There is a certain level of social responsibility that every citizen should
>> hold themselves to regardless of their jobs.
>
>They presumably believe that the tendering rules haven't been followed
>correctly, which is very likely. The fact that another unsuccessful bidder
>apparently collected an out-of-court settlement would appear to confirm
>that.

Not necessarily , it might simply have been cheaper to pay them off than
battling it out in court.

Either way any decision the government makes should be final as far as
any bidders are concerned, they don't have any kind of right to win or even
be considered no matter how good their product might be. A tendering simply
means give us quotes, there's no guarantee beyond that.

>At a technical level, Hitachi, with experience of Mini Shinkansens, is
>probably the bidder with the most relevant experience for the HS2 fleet.
>The E6 won't need many changes to meet the HS2 requirements. Conversely,
>the Velaros would need to be redesigned.
>
><https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/25803344443/in/album-72157664801093584/

God thats an ugly train.

On 05/07/2021 11:34, MrSpud_nvR6m_@qthp7cyi.ac.uk wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:50:37 +0100
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <sbufbv$klt$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:20:15 on Mon, 5 Jul
>> 2021, MrSpud_kekglfagqd@fhu.info remarked:
>>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:23:46 +0100
>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>> On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
>>>>> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
>>>>> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
>>>>> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What
>>>>> the hell
>>>>
>>>>> is wrong with them?
>>>>
>>>> It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
>>>> processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
>>>> they win.
>>>
>>> The losers of course being the taxpayer who has to fund the legal defense,
>>> not that these psychopath CEOs would give a toss.
>>
>> The CEO would probably argue that his job was to make sure that
>> shareholders and staff weren't the losers, that his firm had a green
>> light, kept on the rails, and didn't hit the buffers.
>
> There is a certain level of social responsibility that every citizen should
> hold themselves to regardless of their jobs.

Directors have a duty to act in the interests of shareholders as far as
is legal, though there is an increasingly strong argument that looking
socially responsible improves the company's share price.

On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:52:04 -0000 (UTC)
Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
><MrSpud_5ku_p@1lm131gx7b.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:37:23 +0100
>> There should be legal comeback on any directors who undertake speculative
>> legal proceedings with personal fines to be decided by the court.
>>
>>
>
>Given that Talgo apparently received a settlement, that suggests that the
>DfT is the one at fault. Should Shapps be fined personally?

The DfT should be free to make decisions based on its own criteria, not those
of the manufacturers. And as I said in another post, it might have been
cheaper simply to pay them off that fight it out. Happens all the time when
complaints are made.

<MrSpud_i6d8@djs3z7hcx_h1fxiaxldv.biz> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:52:04 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> <MrSpud_5ku_p@1lm131gx7b.co.uk> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:37:23 +0100
>>> There should be legal comeback on any directors who undertake speculative
>>> legal proceedings with personal fines to be decided by the court.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Given that Talgo apparently received a settlement, that suggests that the
>> DfT is the one at fault. Should Shapps be fined personally?
>
> The DfT should be free to make decisions based on its own criteria, not those
> of the manufacturers.

It's very likely that the DfT isn't following its own rules, and not for
the first time.

> And as I said in another post, it might have been
> cheaper simply to pay them off that fight it out. Happens all the time when
> complaints are made.

Maybe, but it's much more likely that the DfT would have been forced into
an embarrassing re-running of the whole tendering process from the
beginning. There are international rules for public sector procurement,
which the DfT probably broke, and knew it had broken.

In message <sbup0p$13f6$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 11:04:57 on Mon, 5 Jul
2021, MrSpud_l9x9eCkcz2@xlz7e8ptqagdod7x0.com remarked:
>On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:50:17 -0000 (UTC)
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>><MrSpud_nvR6m_@qthp7cyi.ac.uk> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:50:37 +0100
>>> There is a certain level of social responsibility that every citizen should
>>> hold themselves to regardless of their jobs.
>>
>>They presumably believe that the tendering rules haven't been followed
>>correctly, which is very likely. The fact that another unsuccessful bidder
>>apparently collected an out-of-court settlement would appear to confirm
>>that.
>
>Not necessarily , it might simply have been cheaper to pay them off than
>battling it out in court.
>
>Either way any decision the government makes should be final as far as
>any bidders are concerned, they don't have any kind of right to win or even
>be considered no matter how good their product might be. A tendering simply
>means give us quotes, there's no guarantee beyond that.

Actually there is, they have to be adjudicated fairly.

--
Roland Perry

In message <sbup1q$102$2@dont-email.me>, at 12:05:31 on Mon, 5 Jul 2021,
Certes <none@nowhere.net> remarked:
>On 05/07/2021 11:34, MrSpud_nvR6m_@qthp7cyi.ac.uk wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:50:37 +0100
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <sbufbv$klt$1@gioia.aioe.org>, at 08:20:15 on Mon, 5 Jul
>>> 2021, MrSpud_kekglfagqd@fhu.info remarked:
>>>> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:23:46 +0100
>>>> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
>>>>>> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
>>>>>> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
>>>>>> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What
>>>>>> the hell
>>>>>
>>>>>> is wrong with them?
>>>>>
>>>>> It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
>>>>> processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
>>>>> they win.
>>>>
>>>> The losers of course being the taxpayer who has to fund the legal defense,
>>>> not that these psychopath CEOs would give a toss.
>>>
>>> The CEO would probably argue that his job was to make sure that
>>> shareholders and staff weren't the losers, that his firm had a green
>>> light, kept on the rails, and didn't hit the buffers.
>> There is a certain level of social responsibility that every citizen
>>should
>> hold themselves to regardless of their jobs.
>
>Directors have a duty to act in the interests of shareholders as far as
>is legal, though there is an increasingly strong argument that looking
>socially responsible improves the company's share price.

But being socially responsible by letting a competitor's employees and
shareholders prosper instead of your own, is a hard sell.
--
Roland Perry

<MrSpud_l9x9eCkcz2@xlz7e8ptqagdod7x0.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:50:17 -0000 (UTC)
> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> At a technical level, Hitachi, with experience of Mini Shinkansens, is
>> probably the bidder with the most relevant experience for the HS2 fleet.
>> The E6 won't need many changes to meet the HS2 requirements. Conversely,
>> the Velaros would need to be redesigned.
>>
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/25803344443/in/album-72157664801093584/
>
> God thats an ugly train.
>
>

Designed to create less 'boom' entering tunnels at high speed (the boom is
at the tunnel exit, when the train enters the other end).

The red ones are a smaller loading gauge to operate along a branch
converted from 3'6" gauge, and operate between the junction station and
Tokyo coupled to one of the full loading gauge, green units.

The long-nosed design to reduce the 'boom' was apparently inspired by
Kingfishers.

<https://twitter.com/annanoyddryver/status/1412105509814128642?s=21>

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 11:04:57 +0000 (UTC),
MrSpud_l9x9eCkcz2@xlz7e8ptqagdod7x0.com wrote:

>On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:50:17 -0000 (UTC)
>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>><https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/25803344443/in/album-72157664801093584/
>
>God thats an ugly train.

Japan does ugly trains better than anywhere else in the world.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JRW_N700-7000series_S1.jpg

Mark

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> <MrSpud_l9x9eCkcz2@xlz7e8ptqagdod7x0.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:50:17 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> At a technical level, Hitachi, with experience of Mini Shinkansens, is
>>> probably the bidder with the most relevant experience for the HS2 fleet.
>>> The E6 won't need many changes to meet the HS2 requirements. Conversely,
>>> the Velaros would need to be redesigned.
>>>
>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/25803344443/in/album-72157664801093584/
>>
>> God thats an ugly train.
>>
>>
>
> Designed to create less 'boom' entering tunnels at high speed (the boom is
> at the tunnel exit, when the train enters the other end).
>
> The red ones are a smaller loading gauge to operate along a branch
> converted from 3'6" gauge, and operate between the junction station and
> Tokyo coupled to one of the full loading gauge, green units.

The E6 is only slightly wider than British trains, and even tilts, which
would be useful on the WCML.

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 11:04:57 +0000 (UTC),
> MrSpud_l9x9eCkcz2@xlz7e8ptqagdod7x0.com wrote:
>
>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:50:17 -0000 (UTC)
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/25803344443/in/album-72157664801093584/
>>
>> God thats an ugly train.
>
> Japan does ugly trains better than anywhere else in the world.
>
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JRW_N700-7000series_S1.jpg
>

At the opposite end of the spectrum, try this
<https://twitter.com/narrow_1/status/1410749503980769288?s=21> or this
<https://twitter.com/n_sotetsu/status/1379834906579247106?s=21>

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 11:04:57 +0000 (UTC),
>> MrSpud_l9x9eCkcz2@xlz7e8ptqagdod7x0.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:50:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/25803344443/in/album-72157664801093584/
>>>
>>> God thats an ugly train.
>>
>> Japan does ugly trains better than anywhere else in the world.
>>
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JRW_N700-7000series_S1.jpg
>>
>
> At the opposite end of the spectrum, try this
> <https://twitter.com/narrow_1/status/1410749503980769288?s=21> or this
> <https://twitter.com/n_sotetsu/status/1379834906579247106?s=21>
>

Neil will probably love those — he seems to disapprove of streamlined
trains.

On 05/07/2021 12:04, MrSpud_l9x9eCkcz2@xlz7e8ptqagdod7x0.com wrote:
>>
>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/25803344443/in/album-72157664801093584/
>
> God thats an ugly train.
>

Usually seen on Keith Harris's lap.

--
Basil Jet recently enjoyed listening to
2006 - The Completist's Library - Sarandon

On 05/07/2021 21:51, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 11:04:57 +0000 (UTC),
>> MrSpud_l9x9eCkcz2@xlz7e8ptqagdod7x0.com wrote:
>>
>>> On Mon, 5 Jul 2021 10:50:17 -0000 (UTC)
>>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>> <https://www.flickr.com/photos/recliner/25803344443/in/album-72157664801093584/
>>>
>>> God thats an ugly train.
>>
>> Japan does ugly trains better than anywhere else in the world.
>>
>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:JRW_N700-7000series_S1.jpg
>>
>
> At the opposite end of the spectrum, try this
> <https://twitter.com/narrow_1/status/1410749503980769288?s=21> or this

I think the livery with the dark panel makes these look even worse than
they need to.

> <https://twitter.com/n_sotetsu/status/1379834906579247106?s=21>

On 05/07/2021 09:20, MrSpud_kekglfagqd@fhu.info wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Jul 2021 22:23:46 +0100
> Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.com.invalid> wrote:
>> On 02/07/2021 10:29, MrSpud_f3qx5_@n4wjtpd.edu wrote:
>>
>>> there does seem to be a tendency recently for train
>>> manufacturers to assume they have a god given right to be selected. There
>>> was Alstom bitching about not getting the Eurostar contract a few years
>>> back and there have been similar issues in France recently too. What the hell
>>
>>> is wrong with them?
>>
>> It happens in lots of places with open-ish markets and working legal
>> processes. There is little to lose by appealing, and big benefits if
>> they win.
>
> The losers of course being the taxpayer who has to fund the legal defense,
> not that these psychopath CEOs would give a toss.

It's not neccessarily good in the long term if public bodies don't feel
a need to follow procurement rules.

--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK