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aus+uk / uk.tech.digital-tv / Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

SubjectAuthor
* TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
+- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJ. P. Gilliver (John)
+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveNY
|+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
||`- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveNY
|`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| +* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
| |`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveIndy Jess John
| | +* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
| | |+- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveIndy Jess John
| | |`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| | | `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
| | |  +* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJ. P. Gilliver (John)
| | |  |`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| | |  | `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveRoderick Stewart
| | |  `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| | `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| |  `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJ. P. Gilliver (John)
| |   +- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveIndy Jess John
| |   +- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveFolderol
| |   `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| +* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveDave W
| |+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
| ||+- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| ||+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveApd
| |||`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
| ||| +- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| ||| +* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveIndy Jess John
| ||| |+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| ||| ||`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveIndy Jess John
| ||| || `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| ||| ||  +* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchivePamela
| ||| ||  |+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveWoody
| ||| ||  ||`- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchivePamela
| ||| ||  |`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| ||| ||  | `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchivePamela
| ||| ||  |  `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveMartin
| ||| ||  `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveIndy Jess John
| ||| ||   `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| ||| ||    `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveNY
| ||| ||     `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveIndy Jess John
| ||| |`- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
| ||| `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveApd
| ||`- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveDave W
| |+- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| |`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| | `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveDave W
| |  +- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archivewilliamwright
| |  `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
| `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archivewrightsaerials@aol.com
|  +- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
|  `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveBrian Gaff
|   +* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveMax Demian
|   |+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
|   ||+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveMax Demian
|   |||`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
|   ||| `* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveMax Demian
|   |||  `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJava Jive
|   ||`- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveSpike
|   |`- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveRoderick Stewart
|   `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveMax Demian
+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJeff Layman
|+* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveAndy Burns
||+- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveAdrian Caspersz
||`- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveRoderick Stewart
|`* Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveChris Green
| +- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveNY
| `- Re: TOT: Public Version of Family ArchiveJim Lesurf
`* Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of FamilyJava Jive
 +- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version ofDavey
 +* Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)NY
 |+- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version ofFolderol
 |+* Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version ofMB
 ||`* Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former TimesJava Jive
 || `* Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former TimesIan Jackson
 ||  `* Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Timeswilliamwright
 ||   `- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Timesbad sector
 |+- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former TimesJNugent
 |`* Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version ofDavey
 | `- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)Jim Lesurf
 `- Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version ofbad sector

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Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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From: me...@address.invalid (Martin)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive
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Date: Tue, 23 Nov 2021 12:23:48 +0100
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 by: Martin - Tue, 23 Nov 2021 11:23 UTC

On Mon, 22 Nov 2021 14:32:42 GMT, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com>
wrote:

>On 10:35 22 Nov 2021, Jim Lesurf said:
>
>> In article <XnsADE9C356F2BAD37B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela
>> <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I started the same, using McCracken's Guide to Fortan with punched
>>> cards on an ICL 1906. Took a week just to see if the syntax was
>>> right.
>>
>> Have a feeling that I've lost my McCracken! I'd forgotten the name
>> until I read the above! However I still have a small stack of virgin
>> punch-cards!
>>
>> Used them for years as mm-wave attenuators. We discovered that the
>> thickness of 1 punc-card attenuated a 95GHz beam by about 0.1dB. So
>> were able to tweak beam power levels by inserting a given number in
>> the beam path. :-) (Used black dusbin liner to filter off near IR,
>> etc.)
>
>There was almost an entire punched-card economy in those days. They were
>useful in so many unintended ways!

but you couldn't use them for office Xmas decorations like the paper tape world
of mini computer users could.
--

Martin in Zuid Holland

Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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From: jav...@evij.com.invalid (Java Jive)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive
Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2021 15:02:51 +0000
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 by: Java Jive - Fri, 26 Nov 2021 15:02 UTC

On 20/11/2021 23:23, Indy Jess John wrote:
>
> On 20/11/2021 16:43, Java Jive wrote:
>>
>> The danger is that if I use lossy rather than lossless compression, the
>> text won't be readable.  Only a minority of the papers that could be
>> readily OCR-ed, typed and printed material, was converted into text
>> files alongside the scanned image, by far the majority of it is either
>> cursive text, handwriting, or photos/sketches.
>
> There is a historical website I refer to occasionally where they face
> the same problem.  Their solution is to provide a lossy picture good
> enough to show what the original looks like, which allows pages to load
> quite quickly, and anybody who then wants to actually read the finer
> detail (handwriting on a census page, for instance) just clicks on the
> lossy image and a full, detailed image opens in a new tab.
>
> I have just checked one at random, and a 250K lossy picture expands to a
> 140 megabyte detailed image.
>
> You might find a technique like that solves your readability problem
> without a huge overhead on initial display.
>
> If you want to shrink your large pictures into smaller lossy ones and
> still keep the originals for anyone who wants to see them, I have found
> the batch process facility in Irfanview (Freeware available from
> www.irfanview.com) is useful, and it runs on any flavour of Windows from
> XP to Win10.

Rather belatedly, I've followed your advice. There's still quite a lot
of MB to load, but it is quicker.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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From: davew...@yahoo.co.uk (Dave W)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 17:56:27 +0000
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 by: Dave W - Sat, 27 Nov 2021 17:56 UTC

On Fri, 19 Nov 2021 22:13:44 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
>On 19/11/2021 19:29, Dave W wrote:
>>
>> On Thu, 18 Nov 2021 10:25:29 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
>> <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>> In article <sn3vqu$9hs$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/FamilyHistory/FamilyHistory.shtml
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks again to all who have contributed their advice.
>>>
>>> Thanks. Interesting. :-)
>>>
>>> That said, I'm afraid I find your choice of BG/FG/Text colours quite hard
>>> to read. Since you posted about your 'history' I'll be cheeky and post a
>>> link to my own
>>>
>>> http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
>>>
>>> which uses a simpler layout and colours that I find much easier. And may
>>> also interest some here given the xposting. Apologies to anyone who
>>> objects to xposting so many groups. Not something I'd usually do.
>>
>> As I run a website for my rambling group, I was interested what
>> triggered your criticism above so clicked on the first link.
>>
>> It seems rather cramped with small print. Who the hell is McFarlane
>> and why should I be interested in his history?
>
>Actually we're part of a sept of a Scottish clan, so rather more than
>just one person, and of course the further back you go, the more
>descendants there are who might be interested; our earliest document
>goes back to the reign of Queen Anne, though that is rather a loner,
>they don't really gather numbers until the 1750s.
>
>> The second photo on the
>> top row took some time to be drawn - I saved it to investigate and
>> found the photo is 6.5MB - ridiculous for a website.
>
>That at least is fair criticism, but ICBA to make special copies of the
>photos in the archive just for the download page, and that photo of The
>Prince of Wales, later Edward VIII who abdicated, with Brig Gen
>Macfarlane happens to be that size in the archive. The photos and
>documents were scanned as portable network graphics (PNG) which is a
>lossless compression format, so as not to lose detail in the originals,
>hence they tend to be bigger than the near universal JP(E)Gs.
>
>> I navigated to
>> the home .co.uk page to find that McFarlane is Java Jive, but I could
>> not find a link to the McFarlane history on the home page.
>
>Because it was only just released the day before yesterday, and I
>haven't had time yet to integrate it into the rest of my site, which
>I've neglected for a long time anyway while doing the scanning,
>photo-retouching, research, etc to compile the archive. However, I've
>now restarted work on the website, and yesterday fixed one amongst a
>number of broken webpages, broken, I might add, not by me, but by others
>like Google and the Ordnance Survey withdrawing and discontinuing
>functionality which the now broken pages were using.
>
>> On the other hand Jim LeSurf's link seems much better to me, but
>> there's nothing on that page that says who it's about. I navigated to
>> the home page to see that it's about Jim, but again, there is no link
>> to the history page on the home page.
>>
>> My own website is http://midsurreyramblers.co.uk
>> Neither of you may like it but you can't please all of the people all
>> of the time, although that's a good thing to aim for at all times.
>
>A rather large but unexciting picture of nondescript people walking away
>from the camera - surely you must have a better one with a decent
>background sweeping view and with people facing the camera in a rather
>more positive fashion - with a comparatively small link to the rest of
>the site, which when you follow it has an irritating and seemingly
>pointless floater in text too small to read even with glasses without
>putting my head much nearer the screen. Can't say it's much of an
>improvement over Jim's or mine. Sorry, but you did link to it.
Fair comment, but that floating text is bigger than the rest of the
page so the whole page won't be any good to you. I'm glad to know the
fact that you had difficulty as I might do something in response, but
not until I get complaints from our members.
The home page picture is admittedly old, and I had to add extra trees
when I discovered that one of the members used a TV-sized monitor for
the internet. I thought that showing people walking away would give an
idea of what it would be like to be part of the group. I have a jolly
front-facing group on the Contacts page.
--
Dave W

Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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From: davew...@yahoo.co.uk (Dave W)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive
Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2021 18:24:01 +0000
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 by: Dave W - Sat, 27 Nov 2021 18:24 UTC

On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 10:20:52 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
<noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <gdtfpgtkf9stfbh0j1sf0lftimc1lvp3n3@4ax.com>, Dave W
><davewi11@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> My own website is http://midsurreyramblers.co.uk Neither of you may like
>> it but you can't please all of the people all of the time, although
>> that's a good thing to aim for at all times.
>
>FWIW I find the text overlaid the image very hard to read. Took some time
>to notice a 'hidden' link was then embedded in part of it. However I only
>looked with a light browser with scripting off as that tends to give a
>base-rendering view and dodges a lot of cruft, snooping, etc from some
>of the more commercial sites.
>
>Jim
Thanks for the feedback. What screen size are you using? PC or phone?
What is a light browser? I made no concessions to smartphones as I
don't have one, except making tables squeezable to fit any screen
width.
The only scripting I have is to show a small moving nag box, another
for a flashing 'NEXT' on the next event, and today I added an
experimental pop-up picture when hovering over one leader's name. Also
I think various entry forms use script.
--
Dave W

Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 02:05:58 +0000
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 by: williamwright - Sun, 28 Nov 2021 02:05 UTC

On 27/11/2021 18:24, Dave W wrote:
> I made no concessions to smartphones as I
> don't have one

That's not rational.
Bill

Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2021 10:15:19 +0000 (GMT)
Message-ID: <59926749bfnoise@audiomisc.co.uk>
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Sun, 28 Nov 2021 10:15 UTC

In article <a2t4qg5v2etps4pfgsg3qbnuo9liold5sd@4ax.com>, Dave W
<davewi11@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 20 Nov 2021 10:20:52 +0000 (GMT), Jim Lesurf
> <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:

> >
> >FWIW I find the text overlaid the image very hard to read. Took some
> >time to notice a 'hidden' link was then embedded in part of it. However
> >I only looked with a light browser with scripting off as that tends to
> >give a base-rendering view and dodges a lot of cruft, snooping, etc
> >from some of the more commercial sites.
> >
> >Jim

> Thanks for the feedback. What screen size are you using? PC or phone?
> What is a light browser? I made no concessions to smartphones as I don't
> have one, except making tables squeezable to fit any screen width.

I was using 1920 x 1080 at 60Hz on a monitor that's c21 inches wide, just
beyond outstreateched arm's-reach. Full depth colour.

The 'light' browser I mostly use is the RISC OS version of NetSurf, so my
comment was when using that. 'Light' means using it with scripting disabled
and some other modern 'features' off. I can also use other browsers - e,g,
FF on Linux, but only when I feel that's useful.

Usind an ARM6 based machine - small 'PC' (sic). (Use various other machines
for Linux.)

This grab shows what it looks like here by default with the browser rendering
at a nominal 100 percent scaling.

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/temp/ramblers.jpeg

I've left in the window furniture and a bit of the screen around it so you
can see the overall result. The text does flow if I alter the window width,
but still is hard for me to read.

FWIW Here if I'd wanted text over the image I'd probably have added
some slightly transparent 'boxes' to the text to help the contrast. If you
look here

http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/EclipseAnalysis/EclipseData.html

the top image shows what I mean. You can't always get this perfect, but
it can help a lot.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)

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From: jav...@evij.com.invalid (Java Jive)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family
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 by: Java Jive - Fri, 27 May 2022 13:10 UTC

On 17/11/2021 21:26, Java Jive wrote:
> [For obvious reasons, this is a deliberate cross-post.]
>
> Many people in these ngs over the last year or two have been kind
> enough to help me with useful advice as I have struggled to scan my
> way through a trunkful of family documents going back to a parchment
> (animal skin) from the reign of Queen Anne. While not yet complete
> (will it ever be?), a major milestone has been reached today with the
> release of an archive to the general public. For those interested,
> it's here:
>
> http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/FamilyHistory/FamilyHistory.shtml
>
> Thanks again to all who have contributed their advice.

Currently at my brother's, picking up the next batch of work on this
(about the same gargantuan amount again, I fear!), and one of the first
things I find is the following old-fashioned joke printed on a slip of
paper:

"If your wife wants to learn to drive, don't stand in her way."

[Lest anyone mistakenly think I subscribe to this view, my mother was a
WAAF driving instructor during WW2, and was the best driver in the
family. I have made for our private use a map of the places we have
photos of taken during Scottish holidays, the southernmost ones are
Edinburgh and Dalry, the northernmost Gruinard Bay, featuring almost
everywhere in between, though not the east coast, and of course we
usually drove up from southern England to get there. Only now does it
strike me how many hundreds of miles Ma, and later my stepfather, must
have driven on these family holidays.]

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

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 by: Davey - Fri, 27 May 2022 14:24 UTC

On Fri, 27 May 2022 14:10:41 +0100
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

> On 17/11/2021 21:26, Java Jive wrote:
> > [For obvious reasons, this is a deliberate cross-post.]
> >
> > Many people in these ngs over the last year or two have been kind
> > enough to help me with useful advice as I have struggled to scan my
> > way through a trunkful of family documents going back to a parchment
> > (animal skin) from the reign of Queen Anne. While not yet complete
> > (will it ever be?), a major milestone has been reached today with
> > the release of an archive to the general public. For those
> > interested, it's here:
> >
> > http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/FamilyHistory/FamilyHistory.shtml
> >
> > Thanks again to all who have contributed their advice.
>
> Currently at my brother's, picking up the next batch of work on this
> (about the same gargantuan amount again, I fear!), and one of the
> first things I find is the following old-fashioned joke printed on a
> slip of paper:
>
> "If your wife wants to learn to drive, don't stand in her way."
>
> [Lest anyone mistakenly think I subscribe to this view, my mother was
> a WAAF driving instructor during WW2, and was the best driver in the
> family. I have made for our private use a map of the places we have
> photos of taken during Scottish holidays, the southernmost ones are
> Edinburgh and Dalry, the northernmost Gruinard Bay, featuring almost
> everywhere in between, though not the east coast, and of course we
> usually drove up from southern England to get there. Only now does
> it strike me how many hundreds of miles Ma, and later my stepfather,
> must have driven on these family holidays.]
>

I remember our Dad driving the family from Essex to The Lake District,
back in the 1950s, with a caravan behind, then a three hundred mile trip
that took all day. Later on, with a different tow vehicle and caravan,
we got as far as Zurich. What adventures they were then!
--
Davey.

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)

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Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)
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 by: NY - Fri, 27 May 2022 15:55 UTC

"Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me...
> [Lest anyone mistakenly think I subscribe to this view, my mother was a
> WAAF driving instructor during WW2, and was the best driver in the family.
> I have made for our private use a map of the places we have photos of
> taken during Scottish holidays, the southernmost ones are Edinburgh and
> Dalry, the northernmost Gruinard Bay, featuring almost everywhere in
> between, though not the east coast, and of course we usually drove up from
> southern England to get there. Only now does it strike me how many
> hundreds of miles Ma, and later my stepfather, must have driven on these
> family holidays.]

And she'll have been taught (and taught others) to drive vehicles with no
synchromesh, and therefore to perform double-declutching. Anyone who can
master that skill deserves much kudos. Nowadays it is impossible to learn
true DDC to non-synchromesh standards because (virtually) all cars on the
road today have synchromesh on all gears so you have no way of knowing
whether or not you have matched the engine and gearbox speeds sufficiently
accurately for the gear to engage. No matter what you do, you can always
*engage* any gear - you could engage first at 70, as long as you don't let
the clutch up!!!!! Good drivers try to match the speeds when bringing up the
clutch *after* the gear had successfully engaged, so both plates are going
at the same speed, but that's a very different thing. Clutchless gearchanges
can be mastered, but in that case you have instant feedback: until you reach
the matching speed, the gear will not engage; once you reach the right speed
it slips in. In DDC, you are doing it offline: you have to hope that the
engine speed is correct, then disengage the engine (so you've no way of
making minor tweaks), and if it doesn't work you have to let the clutch up,
tweak the engine speed, declutch and try again: effectively you've got a
system with a delay in its feedback loop.

I did once have the misfortune to be a passenger in a car driven by someone
who had been driving for probably 20 years (she was not a new driver) and
she had the habit of coming right off the power, engaging the new gear,
letting the clutch up on an idling engine (with one hell of a lurch!) and
then applying power. I'd only been driving a few years but I'd been taught
the rudiments of rev-matching by my instructor (ex police Class 1
instructor) who was keen to show newly-passed drivers how to do it
"properly". Should I say anything? After she apologised after a particularly
bad lurch, I very tactfully suggested that maybe there was another way (I
avoided the word "better"!) which might reduce the lurches. She thought it
was her car and asked me to drive to see. Allowing for a couple of minutes
to get used to a strange car's clutch bite point and graunchy
gear-selection, I drove it "differently" and she was mystified. Without
saying "this is how you should do it", I described what I did, and there was
a wonderful moment of realisation and frustration "Ah, I didn't know you
could do that". Without a rev-counter, it's a bit more difficult to judge
the correct engine speed (with my present car I know that each change of
gear is roughly an increase/decrease of 500 rpm) but you can still do it my
engine note - at the very least keep the engine revs constant, and ideally
increase when changing down or decrease when changing up... anything but let
the engine revs fall to idling and let the clutch up on a "dead" engine.

There was an age and seniority issue (she was my manager) which is why I was
bending over backwards to be tactful and to avoid her feeling silly. Next
time I rode with her, she was fine, and she joked that she'd been
practicing. So it wasn't "typical woman driver" - it was just that she had
been taught very badly and had never experimented with doing things
differently to what she'd been taught. She was a people manager rather than
an engineer - maybe my scientific/engineering background made me more likely
to experiment "what if".

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 by: Folderol - Fri, 27 May 2022 17:23 UTC

On Fri, 27 May 2022 16:55:45 +0100
"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
<snip>

>There was an age and seniority issue (she was my manager) which is why I was
>bending over backwards to be tactful and to avoid her feeling silly. Next
>time I rode with her, she was fine, and she joked that she'd been
>practicing. So it wasn't "typical woman driver" - it was just that she had
>been taught very badly and had never experimented with doing things
>differently to what she'd been taught. She was a people manager rather than
>an engineer - maybe my scientific/engineering background made me more likely
>to experiment "what if".

During WW2 my Mum was cherry-picked from the land girls and trained as a
mechanic. By the end of that time she was able to drive and maintain any
non track-laying vehicle.

Afterwards, it wasn't until the mid 1950s that the family got a car and she
needed to get a license. In those days it was not unusual to just go for a test
without any driving lessons, and to the examiners amazement, she handled the car
near perfectly (in a rare moment of honesty, Dad admitted she drove better than
him). She was also the scourge of any motor mechanic who tried to con her :)

--
Basic

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 by: MB - Fri, 27 May 2022 17:43 UTC

On 27/05/2022 16:55, NY wrote:
> Anyone who can
> master that skill deserves much kudos.

It is surprising how quickly you get used to it, I think our first
couple of Land Rovers at work needed it.

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times

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 by: Java Jive - Fri, 27 May 2022 21:53 UTC

Re double de-clutching ...

On 27/05/2022 18:43, MB wrote:
>
> On 27/05/2022 16:55, NY wrote:
>> >> Anyone who can
>> master that skill deserves much kudos.
>
> It is surprising how quickly you get used to it, I think our first
> couple of Land Rovers at work needed it.

Yes, in the days I worked on farms, it was considered best practice to
DDC tractors. That is to say, they had a 'crash' gearbox, so could take
a bashing, but I was taught to DDC by the farm's foreman, and when you
got it just about right you could change gear without anything worse
than a satisfying 'clunk'!

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times

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From: ianREMOV...@g3ohx.co.uk (Ian Jackson)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times
Date: Sat, 28 May 2022 13:53:09 +0100
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 by: Ian Jackson - Sat, 28 May 2022 12:53 UTC

In message <t6rh83$rqb$1@dont-email.me>, Java Jive
<java@evij.com.invalid> writes
>Re double de-clutching ...
>
>On 27/05/2022 18:43, MB wrote:
>>
>> On 27/05/2022 16:55, NY wrote:
>>> >> Anyone who can
>>> master that skill deserves much kudos.
>> It is surprising how quickly you get used to it, I think our first
>>couple of Land Rovers at work needed it.
>
>Yes, in the days I worked on farms, it was considered best practice to
>DDC tractors. That is to say, they had a 'crash' gearbox, so could
>take a bashing, but I was taught to DDC by the farm's foreman, and when
>you got it just about right you could change gear without anything
>worse than a satisfying 'clunk'!
>
60 years ago I learned to drive on a car with (deliberately) no
synchromesh on 1st, and needed to know how to double-declutch. I still
do it (although the actual accuracy my rev matching is rather
questionable!). With some cars I could drive without using the clutch
(very useful when, say, the hydraulics had failed - although starting
off and stopping was a bit scary) - but modern cars won't let you do
this.
--
Ian

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times

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From: wrightsa...@f2s.com (williamwright)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times
Date: Sat, 28 May 2022 14:17:32 +0100
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 by: williamwright - Sat, 28 May 2022 13:17 UTC

On 28/05/2022 13:53, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message <t6rh83$rqb$1@dont-email.me>, Java Jive
> <java@evij.com.invalid> writes
>> Re double de-clutching ...
>>
>> On 27/05/2022 18:43, MB wrote:
>>>
>>> On 27/05/2022 16:55, NY wrote:
>>>> >> Anyone who can
>>>> master that skill deserves much kudos.
>>>  It is surprising how quickly you get used to it, I think our first
>>> couple of Land Rovers at work needed it.
>>
>> Yes, in the days I worked on farms, it was considered best practice to
>> DDC tractors.  That is to say, they had a 'crash' gearbox, so could
>> take a bashing, but I was taught to DDC by the farm's foreman, and
>> when you got it just about right you could change gear without
>> anything worse than a satisfying 'clunk'!
>>
> 60 years ago I learned to drive on a car with (deliberately) no
> synchromesh on 1st, and needed to know how to double-declutch. I still
> do it (although the actual accuracy my rev matching is rather
> questionable!). With some cars I could drive without using the clutch
> (very useful when, say, the hydraulics had failed - although starting
> off and stopping was a bit scary) - but modern cars won't let you do this.

I learnt to drive on a 1948 Morris ambulance. I always double declutch.
Very useful for steep hills and that. I heel and toe as well. I've never
worn a clutch out. When I bought my (1990) tractor the young bloke said,
"Don't try to change gear while you're moving coz it can't be done.
Select a gear and ratio then set off." I found that I could change gear
whilst moving with no trouble.

Bill (smug)

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times

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 by: bad sector - Sat, 28 May 2022 14:00 UTC

On 5/28/22 09:17, williamwright wrote:
> On 28/05/2022 13:53, Ian Jackson wrote:
>> In message <t6rh83$rqb$1@dont-email.me>, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> writes
>>> Re double de-clutching ...
>>>
>>> On 27/05/2022 18:43, MB wrote:
>>>>
>>>> On 27/05/2022 16:55, NY wrote:
>>>>> >> Anyone who can
>>>>> master that skill deserves much kudos.
>>>>  It is surprising how quickly you get used to it, I think our first couple of Land Rovers at work needed it.
>>>
>>> Yes, in the days I worked on farms, it was considered best practice to DDC tractors.  That is to say, they had a 'crash' gearbox, so could take a bashing, but I was taught to DDC by the farm's foreman, and when you got it just about right you could change gear without anything worse than a satisfying 'clunk'!
>>>
>> 60 years ago I learned to drive on a car with (deliberately) no synchromesh on 1st, and needed to know how to double-declutch. I still do it (although the actual accuracy my rev matching is rather questionable!). With some cars I could drive without using the clutch (very useful when, say, the hydraulics had failed - although starting off and stopping was a bit scary) - but modern cars won't let you do this.
>
> I learnt to drive on a 1948 Morris ambulance. I always double declutch. Very useful for steep hills and that. I heel and toe as well. I've never worn a clutch out. When I bought my (1990) tractor the young bloke said, "Don't try to change gear while you're moving coz it can't be done. Select a gear and ratio then set off." I found that I could change gear whilst moving with no trouble.
>
> Bill (smug)

I learned on a '55 ford truck on the farm, it seldom needed double-clutching but I honed the skill to perfection only because it gave me a chance to rev the engine in a skill show-off while coasting in an otherwise idle turn into the ice-cream parlor parking where the 'action' was. In them days if you were tall enough for your head to be seen over the city-hall counter and held $2 high you got an unlimited driver's licence, just like that. If you didn't get one as soon as thus qualified you was called names...

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times

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From: jennings...@fastmail.fm (JNugent)
Newsgroups: alt.os.linux,uk.comp.os.linux,alt.windows7.general,alt.photography,uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times
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 by: JNugent - Sat, 28 May 2022 14:24 UTC

On 27/05/2022 04:55 pm, NY wrote:
> "Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
> news:t6qiki$s3j$1@dont-email.me...
>> [Lest anyone mistakenly think I subscribe to this view, my mother was
>> a WAAF driving instructor during WW2, and was the best driver in the
>> family. I have made for our private use a map of the places we have
>> photos of taken during  Scottish holidays, the southernmost ones are
>> Edinburgh and Dalry, the northernmost Gruinard Bay, featuring almost
>> everywhere in between, though not the east coast, and of course we
>> usually drove up from southern England to get there.  Only now does it
>> strike me how many hundreds of miles Ma, and later my stepfather, must
>> have driven on these family holidays.]
>
> And she'll have been taught (and taught others) to drive vehicles with
> no synchromesh, and therefore to perform double-declutching. Anyone who
> can master that skill deserves much kudos. Nowadays it is impossible to
> learn true DDC to non-synchromesh standards because (virtually) all cars
> on the road today have synchromesh on all gears so you have no way of
> knowing whether or not you have matched the engine and gearbox speeds
> sufficiently accurately for the gear to engage. No matter what you do,
> you can always *engage* any gear - you could engage first at 70, as long
> as you don't let the clutch up!!!!! Good drivers try to match the speeds
> when bringing up the clutch *after* the gear had successfully engaged,
> so both plates are going at the same speed, but that's a very different
> thing. Clutchless gearchanges can be mastered, but in that case you have
> instant feedback: until you reach the matching speed, the gear will not
> engage; once you reach the right speed it slips in. In DDC, you are
> doing it offline: you have to hope that the engine speed is correct,
> then disengage the engine (so you've no way of making minor tweaks), and
> if it doesn't work you have to let the clutch up, tweak the engine
> speed, declutch and try again: effectively you've got a system with a
> delay in its feedback loop.
>
> I did once have the misfortune to be a passenger in a car driven by
> someone who had been driving for probably 20 years (she was not a new
> driver) and she had the habit of coming right off the power, engaging
> the new gear, letting the clutch up on an idling engine (with one hell
> of a lurch!) and then applying power. I'd only been driving a few years
> but I'd been taught the rudiments of rev-matching by my instructor (ex
> police Class 1 instructor) who was keen to show newly-passed drivers how
> to do it "properly". Should I say anything? After she apologised after a
> particularly bad lurch, I very tactfully suggested that maybe there was
> another way (I avoided the word "better"!) which might reduce the
> lurches. She thought it was her car and asked me to drive to see.
> Allowing for a couple of minutes to get used to a strange car's clutch
> bite point and graunchy gear-selection, I drove it "differently" and she
> was mystified. Without saying "this is how you should do it", I
> described what I did, and there was a wonderful moment of realisation
> and frustration "Ah, I didn't know you could do that". Without a
> rev-counter, it's a bit more difficult to judge the correct engine speed
> (with my present car I know that each change of gear is roughly an
> increase/decrease of 500 rpm) but you can still do it my engine note -
> at the very least keep the engine revs constant, and ideally increase
> when changing down or decrease when changing up... anything but let the
> engine revs fall to idling and let the clutch up on a "dead" engine.
>
> There was an age and seniority issue (she was my manager) which is why I
> was bending over backwards to be tactful and to avoid her feeling silly.
> Next time I rode with her, she was fine, and she joked that she'd been
> practicing. So it wasn't "typical woman driver" - it was just that she
> had been taught very badly and had never experimented with doing things
> differently to what she'd been taught. She was a people manager rather
> than an engineer - maybe my scientific/engineering background made me
> more likely to experiment "what if".

The cars I learned in (and tended to own for the first few years after
passing my test) invariably didn't have synchromesh on 1st gear and
often, it was badly-worn on 2nd, meaning that double-declutching was a
necessary skill if you needed to change down that low whilst on the move.

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)

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 by: bad sector - Sat, 28 May 2022 14:51 UTC

On 5/27/22 09:10, Java Jive wrote:
> On 17/11/2021 21:26, Java Jive wrote:
>> [For obvious reasons, this is a deliberate cross-post.]
>>
>> Many people in these ngs over the last year or two have been kind
>> enough to help me with useful advice as I have struggled to scan my
>> way through a trunkful of family documents going back to a parchment
>> (animal skin) from the reign of Queen Anne.  While not yet complete
>> (will it ever be?), a major milestone has been reached today with the
>> release of an archive to the general public.  For those interested,
>> it's here:
>>
>> http://www.macfh.co.uk/Macfarlane/FamilyHistory/FamilyHistory.shtml

that's not bad, actually!

>> Thanks again to all who have contributed their advice.
>
> Currently at my brother's, picking up the next batch of work on this (about the same gargantuan amount again, I fear!), and one of the first things I find is the following old-fashioned joke printed on a slip of paper:
>
>   "If your wife wants to learn to drive, don't stand in her way."

I'm working on something similar but am going against the grain by using 'iconized' art instead of the historical encre-et-plume drawings. After all the original purpose was easy and positive identification from a distance on the battle-field, very much resembling the definition of a graphical icon as a symbol that provides unique identification in the smallest possible number of pixels (even if many pixels be used in production). I'm looking for a graphic artist to clean-up one of my own iconized elements, an open-helmet used in the day to convey something akin to 'a lack of unconditional hostility' :-))

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)

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 by: Davey - Tue, 11 Apr 2023 08:51 UTC

On Fri, 27 May 2022 16:55:45 +0100
"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> I did once have the misfortune to be a passenger in a car driven by
> someone who had been driving for probably 20 years (she was not a new
> driver) and she had the habit of coming right off the power, engaging
> the new gear, letting the clutch up on an idling engine (with one
> hell of a lurch!) and then applying power. I'd only been driving a
> few years but I'd been taught the rudiments of rev-matching by my
> instructor (ex police Class 1 instructor) who was keen to show
> newly-passed drivers how to do it "properly". Should I say anything?
> After she apologised after a particularly bad lurch, I very tactfully
> suggested that maybe there was another way (I avoided the word
> "better"!) which might reduce the lurches. She thought it was her car
> and asked me to drive to see. Allowing for a couple of minutes to get
> used to a strange car's clutch bite point and graunchy
> gear-selection, I drove it "differently" and she was mystified.
>

I had a similar experience, as a passenger in a fellow student's Cortina
Estate. Every gearchange terminated in a 'Bang' as the clutch was just
drop released, with no attempt to match engine speed. Luckily it was
only one short journey, and I often wondered how long the clutch and
even the gearbox lasted after all that terrible treatment.
I sympathised with the car, even though I had no great love for Fords.

--
Davey.

Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 04:49:39 -0700 (PDT)
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Subject: Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive
From: wrightsa...@f2s.com (wrightsaerials@aol.com)
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 by: wrightsaerials@aol.c - Tue, 11 Apr 2023 11:49 UTC

On Thursday, 18 November 2021 at 10:28:54 UTC, Jim Lesurf wrote:

> That said, I'm afraid I find your choice of BG/FG/Text colours quite hard
> to read. Since you posted about your 'history' I'll be cheeky and post a
> link to my own

Jim, your capitalisation is a bit strange. For instance 'Dad' and 'University'. Neither word, when used alone and not as part of a name, are proper nouns.

Bill
Aerial rigger, left school at 16...)

Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: Male Chauvinism Of Former Times (was: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 15:14:45 +0100
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Tue, 11 Apr 2023 14:14 UTC

In article <u1372k$2jlvd$1@dont-email.me>,
Davey <davey@example.invalid> wrote:
> Allowing for a couple of minutes to get
> > used to a strange car's clutch bite point and graunchy
> > gear-selection, I drove it "differently" and she was mystified.
> >

> I had a similar experience, as a passenger in a fellow student's Cortina
> Estate. Every gearchange terminated in a 'Bang' as the clutch was just
> drop released, with no attempt to match engine speed. Luckily it was
> only one short journey, and I often wondered how long the clutch and
> even the gearbox lasted after all that terrible treatment.

The only car I ever owned and drove was a second hand one bought cheap - as
that was all I could afford. It was very difficult to drive and as a newbie
I assumed the 'jump' when I closed the clutch was simply my poor driving.
However after a few weeks the clutch failed entirely as I was going up the
Bow Flyover in London! Not a good place to be stopped in the rush hour.

Got a tow to a nearby garage. They investigated and said the clutch failed
because a previous owner had changed it... putting the new one in the
"wrong way round". Their term for it. They were amazed it had worked at
all!

Seviced, then worked OK. But I gave up driving later as I decided I hated
doing it in London.

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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From: noi...@audiomisc.co.uk (Jim Lesurf)
Subject: Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2023 15:38:58 +0100
Message-ID: <5a93798ed6noise@audiomisc.co.uk>
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 by: Jim Lesurf - Tue, 11 Apr 2023 14:38 UTC

In article <5d7551fb-b36d-46b9-9259-623fe1995c70n@googlegroups.com>,
wrightsaerials@aol.com <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
> On Thursday, 18 November 2021 at 10:28:54 UTC, Jim Lesurf wrote:

> > That said, I'm afraid I find your choice of BG/FG/Text colours quite
> > hard to read. Since you posted about your 'history' I'll be cheeky
> > and post a link to my own

> Jim, your capitalisation is a bit strange. For instance 'Dad' and
> 'University'. Neither word, when used alone and not as part of a name,
> are proper nouns.

Alas, my grasp of engish has always been Dodgy...

> Bill Aerial rigger, left school at 16...)

So did I, but then went to another one. :-)

Jim

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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From: brian1g...@gmail.com (Brian Gaff)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 09:46:33 +0100
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 by: Brian Gaff - Thu, 13 Apr 2023 08:46 UTC

There is a campaign to capitalise Braille, as its the name of the inventor
of the code in the same way to Morse for Morse code.
I was wondering what brought this thread back to life after all this time.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"wrightsaerials@aol.com" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message
news:5d7551fb-b36d-46b9-9259-623fe1995c70n@googlegroups.com...
> On Thursday, 18 November 2021 at 10:28:54 UTC, Jim Lesurf wrote:
>
>> That said, I'm afraid I find your choice of BG/FG/Text colours quite hard
>> to read. Since you posted about your 'history' I'll be cheeky and post a
>> link to my own
>
> Jim, your capitalisation is a bit strange. For instance 'Dad' and
> 'University'. Neither word, when used alone and not as part of a name, are
> proper nouns.
>
> Bill
> Aerial rigger, left school at 16...)

Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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From: max_dem...@bigfoot.com (Max Demian)
Newsgroups: uk.tech.digital-tv
Subject: Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive
Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2023 15:00:55 +0100
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 by: Max Demian - Thu, 13 Apr 2023 14:00 UTC

On 13/04/2023 09:46, Brian Gaff wrote:

> There is a campaign to capitalise Braille, as its the name of the inventor
> of the code in the same way to Morse for Morse code.
> I was wondering what brought this thread back to life after all this time.

My spellchecker insists on capitalising Negro and derivatives which I
suppose it all right. Christian too. But not unchristian. The Grauniad
likes to capitalise Black but keep white uncapitalised.

--
Max Demian

Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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Subject: Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive
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 by: Max Demian - Thu, 13 Apr 2023 14:01 UTC

On 13/04/2023 09:46, Brian Gaff wrote:

> There is a campaign to capitalise Braille, as its the name of the inventor
> of the code in the same way to Morse for Morse code.
> I was wondering what brought this thread back to life after all this time.

My spellchecker insists on capitalising Negro and derivatives which I
suppose it all right. Christian too. But not unchristian. The Grauniad
likes to capitalise Black but keep white uncapitalised.

--
Max Demian

Re: TOT: Public Version of Family Archive

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 by: Java Jive - Thu, 13 Apr 2023 16:18 UTC

On 13/04/2023 15:00, Max Demian wrote:
> On 13/04/2023 09:46, Brian Gaff wrote:
>
>>   There is a campaign to capitalise Braille, as its the name of the
>> inventor
>> of the code in the same way to Morse for Morse code.
>>   I was wondering what brought this thread back to life after all this
>> time.
>
> My spellchecker insists on capitalising Negro and derivatives which I
> suppose it all right. Christian too. But not unchristian. The Grauniad
> likes to capitalise Black but keep white uncapitalised.

FALSE!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/02/race-today-archive-chronicling-black-britons-lives-launches-online

Headline reads: "Race Today archive chronicling lives of black Britons
to launch online" and in the 15 examples on one page, the only
capitalised 'black' is part of a title of a Day-of-Action.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

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