Yesterday I arrived at Heathrow in the early morning and decided to try the Elizabeth Line to connect to Thameslink at Farringdon, instead of taking the Picc line to St.Pancras as I would normally have done. It took about as long (an hour) and involved almost as much walking, but may well be a bit faster when they connect things up properly at Paddington later in the year.

What I didn't expect was that my Oyster Card would be vastly overcharged: £7-15 whereas it should have cost me £2-30 (as I started before 06:30). Of course I'll have to get on to the phone help line tomorrow and waste huge amounts of my time complaining and getting a refund. With all this time to practice, how can they make such a mess of Oyster charging?

So I'm far from impressed, and won't be using it again until they get their Oyster fares sorted out.

--
Clive Page

Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
> Yesterday I arrived at Heathrow in the early morning and decided to try
> the Elizabeth Line to connect to Thameslink at Farringdon, instead of
> taking the Picc line to St.Pancras as I would normally have done. It
> took about as long (an hour) and involved almost as much walking, but may
> well be a bit faster when they connect things up properly at Paddington later in the year.
>
> What I didn't expect was that my Oyster Card would be vastly overcharged:
> £7-15 whereas it should have cost me £2-30 (as I started before 06:30).
> Of course I'll have to get on to the phone help line tomorrow and waste
> huge amounts of my time complaining and getting a refund. With all this
> time to practice, how can they make such a mess of Oyster charging?
>
> So I'm far from impressed, and won't be using it again until they get
> their Oyster fares sorted out.
>

The TfL fare finder shows the off-peak Rail fare for Heathrow-Farringdon as
£10.70, so you were charged the correct fare for a senior railcard holder.
The £2.30 (with railcard) is only on the Tube from Heathrow. Your higher
fare includes the fee for using the private track through the HAL Heathrow
tunnel.

In message <t6rkbh$hi6$1@dont-email.me>, at 22:46:09 on Fri, 27 May
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Clive Page <usenet@page2.eu> wrote:
>> Yesterday I arrived at Heathrow in the early morning and decided to try
>> the Elizabeth Line to connect to Thameslink at Farringdon, instead of
>> taking the Picc line to St.Pancras as I would normally have done. It
>> took about as long (an hour) and involved almost as much walking,

I concluded a long time ago that while it feels excruciatingly slow, by
the time you've factored in the granularity of the heavy rail service
and subsurface from Paddington, and the various transfer times/walks,
LHR to KGX is best done on the Piccadilly. Keep it simple.

>>but may well be a bit faster when they connect things up properly at
>>Paddington later in the year.
>>
>> What I didn't expect was that my Oyster Card would be vastly overcharged:
>> £7-15 whereas it should have cost me £2-30 (as I started before 06:30).
>> Of course I'll have to get on to the phone help line tomorrow and waste
>> huge amounts of my time complaining and getting a refund. With all this
>> time to practice, how can they make such a mess of Oyster charging?
>>
>> So I'm far from impressed, and won't be using it again until they get
>> their Oyster fares sorted out.
>
>The TfL fare finder shows the off-peak Rail fare for Heathrow-Farringdon as
>£10.70, so you were charged the correct fare for a senior railcard holder.
>The £2.30 (with railcard) is only on the Tube from Heathrow. Your higher
>fare includes the fee for using the private track through the HAL Heathrow
>tunnel.

This is the "tourist tax" phenomenon which has been discussed here a few
times. "Locals" won't be affected as much because their days-worth of
travel will probably be capped; and whether they did two, three, four or
five trips through the HAL tunnels, their bill would be the same.
--
Roland Perry

In message <t6s8r0$12l$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:35:43 on Sat, 28 May
2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>I can beat that, I made the mistake of visiting London last
> weekend (no trains to Victoria on Sunday, rail replacement bus
> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express,

There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.

For example LST-Bishops_Stortford would be £18.80, and LST-Cambridge
would be £25.50 [GA only], while LST-Stansted_Airport is bang in the
middle at £20.70

>oh UK how I do not miss thee, but that's an aside.)
>
>Was at Tate Modern in the morning, and wanted to get to Tate
> Britain in the afternoon for the Walter Sickert exhibition.
> "Aha," I foolishly thought, "I'll take the boat!"
>
>Dutifully queued at Bankside pier, told them I wanted Millbank,
> they sucked through their teeth and said the boats are a mess
> today because of a boat race up the river (!) but we'll get you
> on the next one. Dutifully boarded the boat I was instructed to,
> went up the river, and then at Westminster they announce "we're
> turning back and going directly back to Bankside". Obviously they
> only say this *after* leaving the quay so you've no choice but to
> enjoy the ride...
>
>At Bankside again, they insist I have to touch out when I abandon
> the boat and get a taxi instead (Tate tickets are timed and I was
> going to miss my slot.)
>
>Cost of taxi: around 12 quid
>Cost to go *literally nowhere* on TfL river: *27* pounds
>
>As an aside, the streets were strangely empty of traffic, while
> every train was packed. This seems to be the opposite of what one
> hears in the news about rail travel in the UK.

--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:r
> In message <t6s8r0$12l$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:35:43 on Sat, 28 May 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>I can beat that, I made the mistake of visiting London last
>> weekend (no trains to Victoria on Sunday, rail replacement bus
>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express,
> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.

Did I suggest there was a supplement?

--

----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

In message <t719io$lht$1@dont-email.me>, at 20:19:04 on Sun, 29 May
2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:r
>> In message <t6s8r0$12l$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:35:43 on Sat, 28 May
>>2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:

>>>I can beat that, I made the mistake of visiting London last
>>> weekend (no trains to Victoria on Sunday, rail replacement bus
>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express,

>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>
>Did I suggest there was a supplement?

Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
"Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just a
normal outer suburban service, with lipstick.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>Did I suggest there was a supplement?
> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services "Heathrow Express"
> and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick

Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
/www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
easily confused with some other services that aren't called
Stansted Express?

It's a very weird world you live in.

--

----Android NewsGroup Reader----
https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:

>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express

>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>Did I suggest there was a supplement?

>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>"Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>
>Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>/www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
> Stansted Express?
>
>It's a very weird world you live in.

A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
attract tourists).

There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
like that.

People often accuse the Heathrow Express of being "outrageously
expensive", but that's because it was only ever intended to be
"cheaper and quicker than a black cab". But at least it (and Gatwick
Express) were configured to be posher than the regular trains on the
same route, although Gatwick Express is not what it was.
--
Roland Perry

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>
>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>
>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>
>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>
>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>> Stansted Express?
>>
>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>
> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
> attract tourists).
>
> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
> like that.
>
> People often accuse the Heathrow Express of being "outrageously
> expensive", but that's because it was only ever intended to be
> "cheaper and quicker than a black cab". But at least it (and Gatwick
> Express) were configured to be posher than the regular trains on the
> same route, although Gatwick Express is not what it was.

Neither is HEx. They're both 387s, like other trains into Gatwick or
Heathrow.

In message <t74hf7$1e3$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:52:07 on Tue, 31 May
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>
>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>
>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>
>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>
>>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>> Stansted Express?
>>>
>>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>>
>> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>> attract tourists).
>>
>> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>> like that.
>>
>> People often accuse the Heathrow Express of being "outrageously
>> expensive", but that's because it was only ever intended to be
>> "cheaper and quicker than a black cab". But at least it (and Gatwick
>> Express) were configured to be posher than the regular trains on the
>> same route, although Gatwick Express is not what it was.
>
>Neither is HEx. They're both 387s, like other trains into Gatwick or
>Heathrow.

Up to a point, Lord Copper:

"The units underwent modifications prior to their introduction
on Heathrow Express which included the fitting of USB power
sockets, extra luggage space, work tables, on-board WiFi and HD
TVs. A new Business First cabin was also included in a 2+1
configuration with reclining seats."

Wikipedia.

Meanwhile, some of the red-liveried GatEx 387/2's (I'm unsighted as to
whether they were posher inside than a regular one) are still on loan to
GN [I saw one earlier today].
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 31 May 2022 06:46:23 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>
>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>
>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>
>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>"Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>
>>Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>/www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>> Stansted Express?
>>
>>It's a very weird world you live in.
>
>A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>attract tourists).
>
>There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>like that.
>
In the days of the 322s and then the 317/7s Stansted Express stock was
considerably more comfortable than the normal GA WA commuter stock. It
had much better and more widely spaced seats, especially on the 317s,
catering (free for 1st class), payphones and even onboard hosts who'd
not only serve you coffee (or gin) but also allow you to pay on the
train, in contrast to other GA London services.

>People often accuse the Heathrow Express of being "outrageously
>expensive", but that's because it was only ever intended to be
>"cheaper and quicker than a black cab". But at least it (and Gatwick
>Express) were configured to be posher than the regular trains on the
>same route, although Gatwick Express is not what it was.

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t74hf7$1e3$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:52:07 on Tue, 31 May
> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>>> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>
>>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>>
>>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>>
>>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>>
>>>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>>> Stansted Express?
>>>>
>>>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>>>
>>> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>>> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>>> attract tourists).
>>>
>>> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>>> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>>> like that.
>>>
>>> People often accuse the Heathrow Express of being "outrageously
>>> expensive", but that's because it was only ever intended to be
>>> "cheaper and quicker than a black cab". But at least it (and Gatwick
>>> Express) were configured to be posher than the regular trains on the
>>> same route, although Gatwick Express is not what it was.
>>
>> Neither is HEx. They're both 387s, like other trains into Gatwick or
>> Heathrow.
>
> Up to a point, Lord Copper:
>
> "The units underwent modifications prior to their introduction
> on Heathrow Express which included the fitting of USB power
> sockets, extra luggage space, work tables, on-board WiFi and HD
> TVs. A new Business First cabin was also included in a 2+1
> configuration with reclining seats."
>

The Liz trains also have WiFi and plenty of space for luggage. I think the
HEx work tabkes are only in first class. So, standard class pax won't see
much difference in the trains, apart from the extra capacity in the newer
trains.

> Wikipedia.
>
> Meanwhile, some of the red-liveried GatEx 387/2's (I'm unsighted as to
> whether they were posher inside than a regular one) are still on loan to
> GN [I saw one earlier today].

GatEx is still only running a half service. I assume the full fleet will be
required when a full service resumes.

In message <6qlb9h1eufng1v353i96i6t7d6bp7ts3cc@4ax.com>, at 10:01:25 on
Tue, 31 May 2022, Ken <ken@birchanger.com> remarked:
>On Tue, 31 May 2022 06:46:23 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>>2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>
>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>
>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>>Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>
>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>>"Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>>a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>
>>>Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>>/www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>> Stansted Express?
>>>
>>>It's a very weird world you live in.
>>
>>A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>>commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>>attract tourists).
>>
>>There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>>no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>>like that.
>>
>In the days of the 322s and then the 317/7s Stansted Express stock was
>considerably more comfortable than the normal GA WA commuter stock. It
>had much better and more widely spaced seats, especially on the 317s,
>catering (free for 1st class), payphones and even onboard hosts who'd
>not only serve you coffee (or gin) but also allow you to pay on the
>train, in contrast to other GA London services.

Some of the lipstick has worn off, but wasn't Clank here quite recently?

>>People often accuse the Heathrow Express of being "outrageously
>>expensive", but that's because it was only ever intended to be
>>"cheaper and quicker than a black cab". But at least it (and Gatwick
>>Express) were configured to be posher than the regular trains on the
>>same route, although Gatwick Express is not what it was.

--
Roland Perry

Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 31 May 2022 06:46:23 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>
>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>
>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>
>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>
>>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>> Stansted Express?
>>>
>>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>>
>> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>> attract tourists).
>>
>> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>> like that.
>>
> In the days of the 322s and then the 317/7s Stansted Express stock was
> considerably more comfortable than the normal GA WA commuter stock. It
> had much better and more widely spaced seats, especially on the 317s,
> catering (free for 1st class), payphones and even onboard hosts who'd
> not only serve you coffee (or gin) but also allow you to pay on the
> train, in contrast to other GA London services.

Were the StanEx 379s enhanced in any way? I doubt that the new 720s are.
But then, Stansted/Ryanport is hardly a premium airport.

In message <t74nhc$o1e$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:40 on Tue, 31 May
2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 May 2022 06:46:23 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>>> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>
>>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>>
>>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>>
>>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>>
>>>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>>> Stansted Express?
>>>>
>>>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>>>
>>> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>>> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>>> attract tourists).
>>>
>>> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>>> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>>> like that.
>>>
>> In the days of the 322s and then the 317/7s Stansted Express stock was
>> considerably more comfortable than the normal GA WA commuter stock. It
>> had much better and more widely spaced seats, especially on the 317s,
>> catering (free for 1st class), payphones and even onboard hosts who'd
>> not only serve you coffee (or gin) but also allow you to pay on the
>> train, in contrast to other GA London services.
>
>Were the StanEx 379s enhanced in any way? I doubt that the new 720s are.
>But then, Stansted/Ryanport is hardly a premium airport.

It's mainly for Essex-man to go on holiday from, which explains why
modally it's a very poor performer for rail. Including the derisory
service from the north, and nothing direct from Mid-Essex.

Stansted Express is mainly aimed at foreign visitors heading to London,
who also get lied to about the travel time, the airport signage
regarding as "London" having been reached by Tottenham Hale, let alone
LST or anywhere in the West End.
--
Roland Perry

On Tue, 31 May 2022 12:02:23 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <t74nhc$o1e$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:40 on Tue, 31 May
>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 31 May 2022 06:46:23 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>>>> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>>>
>>>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>>>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>>>> Stansted Express?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>>>>
>>>> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>>>> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>>>> attract tourists).
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>>>> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>>>> like that.
>>>>
>>> In the days of the 322s and then the 317/7s Stansted Express stock was
>>> considerably more comfortable than the normal GA WA commuter stock. It
>>> had much better and more widely spaced seats, especially on the 317s,
>>> catering (free for 1st class), payphones and even onboard hosts who'd
>>> not only serve you coffee (or gin) but also allow you to pay on the
>>> train, in contrast to other GA London services.
>>
>>Were the StanEx 379s enhanced in any way? I doubt that the new 720s are.
>>But then, Stansted/Ryanport is hardly a premium airport.
>
>It's mainly for Essex-man to go on holiday from, which explains why
>modally it's a very poor performer for rail. Including the derisory
>service from the north, and nothing direct from Mid-Essex.
>
>Stansted Express is mainly aimed at foreign visitors heading to London,
>who also get lied to about the travel time, the airport signage
>regarding as "London" having been reached by Tottenham Hale, let alone
>LST or anywhere in the West End.

Is the interchange between the train and the Victoria line at least now step-free and easy?

How does the train compare with coaches to central London?

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t74hf7$1e3$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:52:07 on Tue, 31 May
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> People often accuse the Heathrow Express of being "outrageously
>>>> expensive", but that's because it was only ever intended to be
>>>> "cheaper and quicker than a black cab". But at least it (and Gatwick
>>>> Express) were configured to be posher than the regular trains on the
>>>> same route, although Gatwick Express is not what it was.
>>>
>>> Neither is HEx. They're both 387s, like other trains into Gatwick or
>>> Heathrow.
>>
>> Up to a point, Lord Copper:
>>
>> "The units underwent modifications prior to their introduction
>> on Heathrow Express which included the fitting of USB power
>> sockets, extra luggage space, work tables, on-board WiFi and HD
>> TVs. A new Business First cabin was also included in a 2+1
>> configuration with reclining seats."
>>
>
> The Liz trains also have WiFi and plenty of space for luggage. I think the
> HEx work tabkes are only in first class. So, standard class pax won't see
> much difference in the trains, apart from the extra capacity in the newer
> trains.
>

On a point of order, there are no 'other' 387s operating to Heathrow. The
non-HEx services are operated by 345s.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 May 2022 06:46:23 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>>> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>
>>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>>
>>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>>
>>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>>
>>>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>>> Stansted Express?
>>>>
>>>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>>>
>>> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>>> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>>> attract tourists).
>>>
>>> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>>> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>>> like that.
>>>
>> In the days of the 322s and then the 317/7s Stansted Express stock was
>> considerably more comfortable than the normal GA WA commuter stock. It
>> had much better and more widely spaced seats, especially on the 317s,
>> catering (free for 1st class), payphones and even onboard hosts who'd
>> not only serve you coffee (or gin) but also allow you to pay on the
>> train, in contrast to other GA London services.
>
> Were the StanEx 379s enhanced in any way? I doubt that the new 720s are.
> But then, Stansted/Ryanport is hardly a premium airport.
>
>

I thought the new Stansted stock was Stadler class 745/1, with no first
class or catering?

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Tue, 31 May 2022 11:26:06 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t74hf7$1e3$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:52:07 on Tue, 31 May
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> People often accuse the Heathrow Express of being "outrageously
>>>>> expensive", but that's because it was only ever intended to be
>>>>> "cheaper and quicker than a black cab". But at least it (and Gatwick
>>>>> Express) were configured to be posher than the regular trains on the
>>>>> same route, although Gatwick Express is not what it was.
>>>>
>>>> Neither is HEx. They're both 387s, like other trains into Gatwick or
>>>> Heathrow.
>>>
>>> Up to a point, Lord Copper:
>>>
>>> "The units underwent modifications prior to their introduction
>>> on Heathrow Express which included the fitting of USB power
>>> sockets, extra luggage space, work tables, on-board WiFi and HD
>>> TVs. A new Business First cabin was also included in a 2+1
>>> configuration with reclining seats."
>>>
>>
>> The Liz trains also have WiFi and plenty of space for luggage. I think the
>> HEx work tabkes are only in first class. So, standard class pax won't see
>> much difference in the trains, apart from the extra capacity in the newer
>> trains.
>>
>
>On a point of order, there are no 'other' 387s operating to Heathrow. The
>non-HEx services are operated by 345s.

Agreed, I meant other trains into Paddington. I suppose the same is true at Gatwick, where the other trains are (nicer)
377s.

From a pax viewpoint, the HEx 387s seem like a big drop in quality compared to the sleek, bespoke 322s. Do they normally
run as 4-car or 8-car units?

On Tue, 31 May 2022 11:26:07 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:

>Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 31 May 2022 06:46:23 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>>>> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>>>
>>>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>>>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>>>> Stansted Express?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>>>>
>>>> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>>>> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>>>> attract tourists).
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>>>> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>>>> like that.
>>>>
>>> In the days of the 322s and then the 317/7s Stansted Express stock was
>>> considerably more comfortable than the normal GA WA commuter stock. It
>>> had much better and more widely spaced seats, especially on the 317s,
>>> catering (free for 1st class), payphones and even onboard hosts who'd
>>> not only serve you coffee (or gin) but also allow you to pay on the
>>> train, in contrast to other GA London services.
>>
>> Were the StanEx 379s enhanced in any way? I doubt that the new 720s are.
>> But then, Stansted/Ryanport is hardly a premium airport.
>>
>>
>
>I thought the new Stansted stock was Stadler class 745/1, with no first
>class or catering?

Ah, yes, you're right. For some reason, I had wrongly thought the 720s would be serving that route.

Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 31 May 2022 11:26:06 -0000 (UTC), Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> wrote:
>
>> Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t74hf7$1e3$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:52:07 on Tue, 31 May
>>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> People often accuse the Heathrow Express of being "outrageously
>>>>>> expensive", but that's because it was only ever intended to be
>>>>>> "cheaper and quicker than a black cab". But at least it (and Gatwick
>>>>>> Express) were configured to be posher than the regular trains on the
>>>>>> same route, although Gatwick Express is not what it was.
>>>>>
>>>>> Neither is HEx. They're both 387s, like other trains into Gatwick or
>>>>> Heathrow.
>>>>
>>>> Up to a point, Lord Copper:
>>>>
>>>> "The units underwent modifications prior to their introduction
>>>> on Heathrow Express which included the fitting of USB power
>>>> sockets, extra luggage space, work tables, on-board WiFi and HD
>>>> TVs. A new Business First cabin was also included in a 2+1
>>>> configuration with reclining seats."
>>>>
>>>
>>> The Liz trains also have WiFi and plenty of space for luggage. I think the
>>> HEx work tabkes are only in first class. So, standard class pax won't see
>>> much difference in the trains, apart from the extra capacity in the newer
>>> trains.
>>>
>>
>> On a point of order, there are no 'other' 387s operating to Heathrow. The
>> non-HEx services are operated by 345s.
>
> Agreed, I meant other trains into Paddington. I suppose the same is true
> at Gatwick, where the other trains are (nicer)
> 377s.
>
> From a pax viewpoint, the HEx 387s seem like a big drop in quality
> compared to the sleek, bespoke 322s. Do they normally
> run as 4-car or 8-car units?
>

Always 8-car.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <nntb9h980g3nf7srkilv1jp5kph1vvh9gr@4ax.com>, at 12:08:42 on
Tue, 31 May 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>On Tue, 31 May 2022 12:02:23 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>In message <t74nhc$o1e$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:35:40 on Tue, 31 May
>>2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 31 May 2022 06:46:23 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>>>>> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>>>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>>>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>>>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>>>>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>>>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>>>>> Stansted Express?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>>>>>
>>>>> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>>>>> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>>>>> attract tourists).
>>>>>
>>>>> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>>>>> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>>>>> like that.
>>>>>
>>>> In the days of the 322s and then the 317/7s Stansted Express stock was
>>>> considerably more comfortable than the normal GA WA commuter stock. It
>>>> had much better and more widely spaced seats, especially on the 317s,
>>>> catering (free for 1st class), payphones and even onboard hosts who'd
>>>> not only serve you coffee (or gin) but also allow you to pay on the
>>>> train, in contrast to other GA London services.
>>>
>>>Were the StanEx 379s enhanced in any way? I doubt that the new 720s are.
>>>But then, Stansted/Ryanport is hardly a premium airport.
>>
>>It's mainly for Essex-man to go on holiday from, which explains why
>>modally it's a very poor performer for rail. Including the derisory
>>service from the north, and nothing direct from Mid-Essex.
>>
>>Stansted Express is mainly aimed at foreign visitors heading to London,
>>who also get lied to about the travel time, the airport signage
>>regarding as "London" having been reached by Tottenham Hale, let alone
>>LST or anywhere in the West End.
>
>Is the interchange between the train and the Victoria line at least now
>step-free and easy?

We'd need to look at the TfL step-free map I suppose.

When I was last there, a southbound passenger had to go over a
footbridge and down the other side (don't know if those two moves have
lifts now) and then take a slightly circuitous route via the car park to
the UndergrounD ticket hall, but then only escalators down to platform
level.

In the reverse direction you wouldn't need the overbridge.

>How does the train compare with coaches to central London?

More expensive, but faster I assume. Backpackers might take the NatEx
coaches to Victoria.
--
Roland Perry

On 31/05/2022 10:21, Recliner wrote:
> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t74hf7$1e3$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:52:07 on Tue, 31 May
>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>>>> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>>
>>>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>>>
>>>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>>>
>>>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>>>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>>>> Stansted Express?
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>>>>
>>>> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>>>> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>>>> attract tourists).
>>>>
>>>> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>>>> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>>>> like that.
>>>>
>>>> People often accuse the Heathrow Express of being "outrageously
>>>> expensive", but that's because it was only ever intended to be
>>>> "cheaper and quicker than a black cab". But at least it (and Gatwick
>>>> Express) were configured to be posher than the regular trains on the
>>>> same route, although Gatwick Express is not what it was.
>>>
>>> Neither is HEx. They're both 387s, like other trains into Gatwick or
>>> Heathrow.
>>
>> Up to a point, Lord Copper:
>>
>> "The units underwent modifications prior to their introduction
>> on Heathrow Express which included the fitting of USB power
>> sockets, extra luggage space, work tables, on-board WiFi and HD
>> TVs. A new Business First cabin was also included in a 2+1
>> configuration with reclining seats."
>>
>
> The Liz trains also have WiFi and plenty of space for luggage. I think the
> HEx work tabkes are only in first class. So, standard class pax won't see
> much difference in the trains, apart from the extra capacity in the newer
> trains.
>
>> Wikipedia.
>>
>> Meanwhile, some of the red-liveried GatEx 387/2's (I'm unsighted as to
>> whether they were posher inside than a regular one) are still on loan to
>> GN [I saw one earlier today].
>
> GatEx is still only running a half service. I assume the full fleet will be
> required when a full service resumes.
>

Will the Liz have fast service to LHR from Paddington, along with all
stops service?

hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk <hounslow3@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 31/05/2022 10:21, Recliner wrote:
>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t74hf7$1e3$1@dont-email.me>, at 07:52:07 on Tue, 31 May
>>> 2022, Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>>>>> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>>>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>>>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>>>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>>>>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>>>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>>>>> Stansted Express?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>>>>>
>>>>> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>>>>> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>>>>> attract tourists).
>>>>>
>>>>> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>>>>> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>>>>> like that.
>>>>>
>>>>> People often accuse the Heathrow Express of being "outrageously
>>>>> expensive", but that's because it was only ever intended to be
>>>>> "cheaper and quicker than a black cab". But at least it (and Gatwick
>>>>> Express) were configured to be posher than the regular trains on the
>>>>> same route, although Gatwick Express is not what it was.
>>>>
>>>> Neither is HEx. They're both 387s, like other trains into Gatwick or
>>>> Heathrow.
>>>
>>> Up to a point, Lord Copper:
>>>
>>> "The units underwent modifications prior to their introduction
>>> on Heathrow Express which included the fitting of USB power
>>> sockets, extra luggage space, work tables, on-board WiFi and HD
>>> TVs. A new Business First cabin was also included in a 2+1
>>> configuration with reclining seats."
>>>
>>
>> The Liz trains also have WiFi and plenty of space for luggage. I think the
>> HEx work tabkes are only in first class. So, standard class pax won't see
>> much difference in the trains, apart from the extra capacity in the newer
>> trains.
>>
>>> Wikipedia.
>>>
>>> Meanwhile, some of the red-liveried GatEx 387/2's (I'm unsighted as to
>>> whether they were posher inside than a regular one) are still on loan to
>>> GN [I saw one earlier today].
>>
>> GatEx is still only running a half service. I assume the full fleet will be
>> required when a full service resumes.
>>
>
> Will the Liz have fast service to LHR from Paddington, along with all
> stops service?
>

No, as has often been discussed here. That much more expensive, express
service is still HEx.

On Tue, 31 May 2022 09:35:40 -0000 (UTC), Recliner
<recliner.usenet@gmail.com> wrote:

>Ken <ken@birchanger.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 31 May 2022 06:46:23 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In message <t73gmu$1hu$1@dont-email.me>, at 16:33:03 on Mon, 30 May
>>> 2022, Clank <clank75@googlemail.com> remarked:
>>>> Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> Wrote in message:
>>>
>>>>>>> for the outrageously expensive Stansted Express
>>>
>>>>>> There's no supplement for that, it's priced at normal rates.
>>>>>> Did I suggest there was a supplement?
>>>
>>>>> Yes, by using the expression "Stansted Express", cf premium services
>>>>> "Heathrow Express" and "Gatwick Express". When it's always been just
>>>>> a normal outer suburban service, with lipstick
>>>>
>>>> Huh? So what you're saying is we shouldn't call the Stansted
>>>> Express - the one that sells tickets at https:/
>>>> /www.stanstedexpress.com/ - the Stansted Express, because you get
>>>> easily confused with some other services that aren't called
>>>> Stansted Express?
>>>>
>>>> It's a very weird world you live in.
>>>
>>> A very practical world. Like I said it's a regular Greater Anglia outer
>>> commuter service, in lipstick. That website is part of the lipstick (to
>>> attract tourists).
>>>
>>> There's nothing special about the trains, the speed, or the fares. So
>>> no, it isn't outrageously expensive, it's the normal price for a train
>>> like that.
>>>
>> In the days of the 322s and then the 317/7s Stansted Express stock was
>> considerably more comfortable than the normal GA WA commuter stock. It
>> had much better and more widely spaced seats, especially on the 317s,
>> catering (free for 1st class), payphones and even onboard hosts who'd
>> not only serve you coffee (or gin) but also allow you to pay on the
>> train, in contrast to other GA London services.
>
>Were the StanEx 379s enhanced in any way? I doubt that the new 720s are.
>But then, Stansted/Ryanport is hardly a premium airport.

No, they weren't. The 720s are dreadful but Stansted passengers have
the definitely better class 745 FLIRTs, albeit the inferior 745/1
(apart from the occasional journey which is operated by a 745/0).