On 8/12/2023 7:34 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
> Daryl wrote:
>> On 8/12/2023 11:07 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 08-Dec-23 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>
>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I find that plug packs, especially the higher power ones, often take
>>> up more than their fair share of space on a power socket, and render
>>> the adjacent socket unusable.
>>
>>
>> That can be a problem, I've put up lots of Christmas lights and
>> finding space in a power board for the power supplies can be a problem
>> which is why I end with a string of power boards.
>> I control the lights with smart plugs and earlier versions were quite
>> big, so big that you can't fit 2 on a double power point but the
>> manufacturers must have figured that out because today I bought 2 tapo
>> "mini" smart plugs and they will fit side by side in a double power
>> point.
>>
>
> what's happened to your BFF? strange for him to be MIA for three days
>
He's suddenly realised that not even his BFFs believe his bullshit claims?

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

On 08-Dec-23 7:32 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
> Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 08-Dec-23 4:07 pm, jonz wrote:
>>> On 8/12/2023 11:07 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 08-Dec-23 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I find that plug packs, especially the higher power ones, often take
>>>> up more than their fair share of space on a power socket, and render
>>>> the adjacent socket unusable.
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> Use a pair of *handed* adapters
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>
>> There are various ways of addressing the problem, but I don't like
>> having to.
>
> life in the western word is tough, isn't it. surely you'd be better off
> in Gaza or the Ukraine right now..
>
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
>
That fact that people in some parts of the world are suffering badly,
and dying, in no way means that I should accept minor inconveniences
when I don't have to. My doing so wouldn't help those people at all.

Sylvia.

On 08-Dec-23 5:18 pm, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
> In aus.electronics Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>> On 8/12/2023 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>
>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>
>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>
>> Wall Warts are a PITA. The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are
>> already Aus certified for 230V so they don't need to have the fan itself
>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>
> Sure, my fans are all AC ones with chunky knobs to turn, so the
> idea of DC seems like extra complication to me wherever the PSU is.
>
> Besides the certification issue, plugpacks also allow them to use a
> cheap low-voltage cable running to the fan.

But the cable has to handle a higher current, and will use more metal,
even if it uses less plastic. It's not clear that there's a saving there.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote

>>> I bought an Arlec pedestal fan yesterday. When I got it home I noticed
>>> that it claimed "DC motor technology". Turns out that instead of a
>>> mains lead, it has a plug-pack that connects to it.

>>> Anyway, I assume their motive for this change is cost,

>> Can't see that.

>>> so we may see it in other models/brands.

>>> Something to watch out for.

>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?

> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.

Just one more is no big deal.

Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>
>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>
>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>> which a fan could often be used with.

> Wall Warts are a PITA.

Don't buy that.

> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus certified
> for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself certified. Cheaping
> out is all it is.

Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.

Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
> Xeno wrote
>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>
>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>
>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>
>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>
>> Wall Warts are a PITA. The company buys in a heap of wall warts that
>> are already Aus certified for 230V so they don't need to have the fan
>> itself certified. Cheaping out is all it is.

> What puzzles me is how quickly the models change, which presumablymeans
> they have to be re-certified. Are consumers really so shallow that
> they'll refuse to buy something that was already available a year ago?

That's not what its about.

On Fri, 08 Dec 2023 11:07:35 +1100, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
wrote:

> On 08-Dec-23 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>
>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>
>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>
>
> I find that plug packs, especially the higher power ones, often take up
> more than their fair share of space on a power socket, and render the
> adjacent socket unusable.

That's no longer true with switch mode wall warts.

On 8/12/2023 9:43 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 08-Dec-23 5:18 pm, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>> In aus.electronics Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>> On 8/12/2023 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>
>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>
>>> Wall Warts are a PITA. The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are
>>> already Aus certified for 230V so they don't need to have the fan itself
>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>>
>> Sure, my fans are all AC ones with chunky knobs to turn, so the
>> idea of DC seems like extra complication to me wherever the PSU is.
>>
>> Besides the certification issue, plugpacks also allow them to use a
>> cheap low-voltage cable running to the fan.
>
> But the cable has to handle a higher current, and will use more metal,
> even if it uses less plastic. It's not clear that there's a saving there.
>

Could be to do with a Govt regulation somewhere that states that
appliances must use less power, its that way in the automotive world,
some of the changes that manufacturers make don't seem to make any sense
at all until you look at the regulations they must comply with.

--
Daryl

On 8/12/2023 4:55 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 08-Dec-23 4:07 pm, jonz wrote:
>> On 8/12/2023 11:07 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 08-Dec-23 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>
>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>
>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I find that plug packs, especially the higher power ones, often take
>>> up more than their fair share of space on a power socket, and render
>>> the adjacent socket unusable.
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> Use a pair of *handed* adapters
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>
> There are various ways of addressing the problem, but I don't like
> having to.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You can`t always get what you want!... ;)
>
> Sylvia.

On 9/12/2023 4:55 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>
>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>  Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>  I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>
>> Wall Warts are a PITA.
>
> Don't buy that.

Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an alternative.
>
>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself
>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>
> Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.

Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

jonz wrote:
> On 8/12/2023 4:55 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 08-Dec-23 4:07 pm, jonz wrote:
>>> On 8/12/2023 11:07 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 08-Dec-23 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I find that plug packs, especially the higher power ones, often
>>>> take up more than their fair share of space on a power socket, and
>>>> render the adjacent socket unusable.
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>> Use a pair of *handed* adapters
>>>>
>>>> Sylvia.
>>>
>>
>> There are various ways of addressing the problem, but I don't like
>> having to.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>  You can`t always get what you want!... ;)

most of the time in life you can't get what you want! I couldn't get a
Lamborghini and Taylor Swift to marry me.!

--
Have a nice day!..

Xeno wrote:
> On 9/12/2023 4:55 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>
>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>  Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>  I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>
>>> Wall Warts are a PITA.
>>
>> Don't buy that.
>
> Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an
> alternative.
>>
>>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself 
>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>>
>> Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.
>
> Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!

industry requirements?

--
Have a nice day!..

Sylvia Else wrote:
> On 08-Dec-23 7:32 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>> Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:07 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>> On 8/12/2023 11:07 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I find that plug packs, especially the higher power ones, often
>>>>> take up more than their fair share of space on a power socket, and
>>>>> render the adjacent socket unusable.
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>> Use a pair of *handed* adapters
>>>>>
>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are various ways of addressing the problem, but I don't like
>>> having to.
>>
>> life in the western word is tough, isn't it. surely you'd be better
>> off in Gaza or the Ukraine right now..
>>
>>>
>>> Sylvia.
>>
>>
> That fact that people in some parts of the world are suffering badly,
> and dying, in no way means that I should accept minor inconveniences
> when I don't have to. My doing so wouldn't help those people at all.

true enough. I'm just saying if your house was destroyed, and family
members raped and killed, you'd have something worth complaining about.

>
>
> Sylvia.

--
Have a nice day!..

On 9/12/2023 1:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
> jonz wrote:
>> On 8/12/2023 4:55 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:07 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>> On 8/12/2023 11:07 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I find that plug packs, especially the higher power ones, often
>>>>> take up more than their fair share of space on a power socket, and
>>>>> render the adjacent socket unusable.
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>> Use a pair of *handed* adapters
>>>>>
>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>
>>>
>>> There are various ways of addressing the problem, but I don't like
>>> having to.
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>  You can`t always get what you want!... ;)
>
> most of the time in life you can't get what you want! I couldn't get a
> Lamborghini and Taylor Swift to marry me.!
>
It would have been pretty platonic if you had married the Lamborghini.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Xeno wrote:
> On 9/12/2023 1:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>> jonz wrote:
>>> On 8/12/2023 4:55 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:07 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>> On 8/12/2023 11:07 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I find that plug packs, especially the higher power ones, often
>>>>>> take up more than their fair share of space on a power socket,
>>>>>> and render the adjacent socket unusable.
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>> Use a pair of *handed* adapters
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are various ways of addressing the problem, but I don't like
>>>> having to.
>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>  You can`t always get what you want!... ;)
>>
>> most of the time in life you can't get what you want! I couldn't get
>> a Lamborghini and Taylor Swift to marry me.!
>>
> It would have been pretty platonic if you had married the Lamborghini.
>

ahh.. the vagaries of the english language

--
Have a nice day!..

On 9/12/2023 2:34 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 9/12/2023 1:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>> jonz wrote:
>>>> On 8/12/2023 4:55 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:07 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>>> On 8/12/2023 11:07 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find that plug packs, especially the higher power ones, often
>>>>>>> take up more than their fair share of space on a power socket,
>>>>>>> and render the adjacent socket unusable.
>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>> Use a pair of *handed* adapters
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> There are various ways of addressing the problem, but I don't like
>>>>> having to.
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>  You can`t always get what you want!... ;)
>>>
>>> most of the time in life you can't get what you want! I couldn't get
>>> a Lamborghini and Taylor Swift to marry me.!
>>> >> It would have been pretty platonic if you had married the Lamborghini.
>>
>
> ahh.. the vagaries of the english language
>
or poor punctation.

On Sat, 09 Dec 2023 09:25:12 +1100, Daryl <dwalford@westpine.com.au> wrote:

> On 8/12/2023 9:43 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>> On 08-Dec-23 5:18 pm, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>> In aus.electronics Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
>>>> On 8/12/2023 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>
>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>>
>>>> Wall Warts are a PITA. The company buys in a heap of wall warts that
>>>> are
>>>> already Aus certified for 230V so they don't need to have the fan
>>>> itself
>>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>>>
>>> Sure, my fans are all AC ones with chunky knobs to turn, so the
>>> idea of DC seems like extra complication to me wherever the PSU is.
>>>
>>> Besides the certification issue, plugpacks also allow them to use a
>>> cheap low-voltage cable running to the fan.
>> But the cable has to handle a higher current, and will use more metal,
>> even if it uses less plastic. It's not clear that there's a saving
>> there.

> Could be to do with a Govt regulation somewherethat states that
> appliances must use less power,

No such animal.

> its that way in the automotive world,

Bullshit it is.

> some of the changes that manufacturers make don't seem to makeany sense
> at all until you look at the regulations they must comply with.

Not true of pedestal fans.

On 9/12/2023 1:05 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
> Xeno wrote:
>> On 9/12/2023 4:55 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>
>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>  Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>  I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>
>>>> Wall Warts are a PITA.
>>>
>>> Don't buy that.
>>
>> Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an
>> alternative.
>>>
>>>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>>>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself
>>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>>>
>>> Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.
>>
>> Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!
>
> industry requirements?
>
I already made the Aus industry requirement known - see above.

If a device runs on 230 V AC, then the whole unit needs to be certified,
even if the manufacturer has a voltage converter inside the device. If
they put the voltage converter *outside* the device, buying it from a
company that builds and certifies the external converter, a number of
different devices can be run on the same converter (under its
certification) or changes can be made to the device, all without
triggering a recertification. That saves a hell of a lot of cost

Rod says there's more to it than that. Ok, let's see it.

Note, DC fans are more energy efficient than AC fans but energy
efficiency is not the point here because you can wire the fans direct to
AC mains when you have a built in converter. I have a ceiling fan here
that is direct wired to 230 AC. Obviously it will have a converter in
the case of the unit and, as a consequence, the entire unit will need to
have been certified. But the fact that the fan runs on DC is not the
point. The whole point is the use of a wall wart (plug pack) instead of
wiring the AC direct to the unit and using a built in converter. I have
stated it is cost and the majority of the cost savings would be in not
having a requirement for mains certification on the device (fan), just
on the wall wart.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>
>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>
>>> Wall Warts are a PITA.

>> Don't buy that.

> Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an
> alternative.

More fool you, and that's not what I meant.

>>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself
>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.

>> Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.

> Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!

There is no plague.

Its the sensible way to do things.

Mighty Mouse <squeak!@thecheesefactory.com> wrote
> Xeno wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>
>>>> Wall Warts are a PITA.
>>>
>>> Don't buy that.
>>
>> Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an
>> alternative.
>>>
>>>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>>>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself
>>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>>>
>>> Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.
>>
>> Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!
>
> industry requirements?

Nope.

On 9/12/2023 7:18 pm, Rod Speed wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>  Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>  I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>
>>>> Wall Warts are a PITA.
>
>>>  Don't buy that.
>
>> Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an
>> alternative.
>
> More fool you, and that's not what I meant.
>
>>>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>>>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself
>>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>
>>>  Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.
>
>> Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!
>
> There is no plague.
>
> Its the sensible way to do things.

There's a wall wart plague here. Damn near everything has a wall wart
these days.

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Keithr0 wrote:
> On 9/12/2023 2:34 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>> Xeno wrote:
>>> On 9/12/2023 1:04 pm, Mighty Mouse wrote:
>>>> jonz wrote:
>>>>> On 8/12/2023 4:55 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:07 pm, jonz wrote:
>>>>>>> On 8/12/2023 11:07 am, Sylvia Else wrote:
>>>>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 8:26 am, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:
>>>>>>>>> In aus.cars Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> On 08-Dec-23 4:09 am, Rod Speed wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal
>>>>>>>>> fan,
>>>>>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I find that plug packs, especially the higher power ones, often
>>>>>>>> take up more than their fair share of space on a power socket,
>>>>>>>> and render the adjacent socket unusable.
>>>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>>> Use a pair of *handed* adapters
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sylvia.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are various ways of addressing the problem, but I don't
>>>>>> like having to.
>>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>>>  You can`t always get what you want!... ;)
>>>>
>>>> most of the time in life you can't get what you want! I couldn't
>>>> get a Lamborghini and Taylor Swift to marry me.!
>>>> >> It would have been pretty platonic if you had married the
>>>> Lamborghini.
>>>
>>
>> ahh.. the vagaries of the english language
>>
> or poor punctation.

even without punctuation the meaning is clear since matrimonial union
with objects is not legally possible in the State of Victoria afaik

https://www.bdm.vic.gov.au/marriages-and-relationships/getting-married-in-victoria

HTH

--
Have a nice day!..

Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>
>>>>> Wall Warts are a PITA.
>>
>>>> Don't buy that.
>>
>>> Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an
>>> alternative.
>> More fool you, and that's not what I meant.
>>
>>>>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>>>>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself
>>>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>>
>>>> Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.
>>
>>> Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!
>> There is no plague.
>> Its the sensible way to do things.

> There's a wall wart plague here.

Nope. The same number of plugged in devices regardless
of whether there are powered with a wall wart or not.

> Damn near everything has a wall wart these days.

The same number of plugged in devices regardless
of whether there are powered with a wall wart or not.

On 10/12/2023 4:45 am, Rod Speed wrote:
> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>> Rod Speed wrote
>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>>>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>
>>>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>>>  Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal fan,
>>>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>>>  I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wall Warts are a PITA.
>>>
>>>>>  Don't buy that.
>>>
>>>> Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an
>>>> alternative.
>>>  More fool you, and that's not what I meant.
>>>
>>>>>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>>>>>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself
>>>>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>>>
>>>>>  Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.
>>>
>>>> Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!
>>>  There is no plague.
>>>  Its the sensible way to do things.
>
>> There's a wall wart plague here.
>
> Nope. The same number of plugged in devices regardless
> of whether there are powered with a wall wart or not.
>
>> Damn near everything has a wall wart these days.
>
> The same number of plugged in devices regardless
> of whether there are powered with a wall wart or not.

Your avoidance of the question noted!

--
Xeno

Nothing astonishes Noddy so much as common sense and plain dealing.
(with apologies to Ralph Waldo Emerson)

Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>> Rod Speed wrote
>>>>>> Xeno <xenolith@optusnet.com.au> wrote
>>>>>>> Computer Nerd Kev wrote
>>>>>>>> Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote
>>>>>>>>> Rod Speed wrote

>>>>>>>>>>> Something to watch out for.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Why are you assuming that it's a bad thing ?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you like wall-warts everywhere, then fine.
>>>>>>>> Huh. I can see a few reasons why I wouldn't like a DC pedestal
>>>>>>>> fan,
>>>>>>>> but I honestly never thought that anyone would be bothered by the
>>>>>>>> meer presence of a plugpack on a wall.
>>>>>>>> I suppose they can be awkward to use with extension lead though,
>>>>>>>> which a fan could often be used with.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wall Warts are a PITA.
>>>>
>>>>>> Don't buy that.
>>>>
>>>>> Yeah, I don't buy anything with wall warts either if there's an
>>>>> alternative.
>>>> More fool you, and that's not what I meant.
>>>>
>>>>>>> The company buys in a heap of wall warts that are already Aus
>>>>>>> certified for 230V so they don't need tohave the fan itself
>>>>>>> certified. Cheaping out is all it is.
>>>>
>>>>>> Its bullshit to claim that that's all it is.
>>>>
>>>>> Ok, you enlighten us on *your* reasoning behind the wall wart plague!
>>>> There is no plague.
>>>> Its the sensible way to do things.
>>
>>> There's a wall wart plague here.

>> Nope. The same number of plugged in devices regardless
>> of whether there are powered with a wall wart or not.

>>> Damn near everything has a wall wart these days.

>> The same number of plugged in devices regardless
>> of whether there are powered with a wall wart or not.

> Your avoidance of the question noted!

No question was avoided, fuckwit.