On 18/06/2022 12:02, Weather or Not wrote:
> On 18/06/2022 02:45, Recliner wrote:
>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/272c1bd4-ee80-11ec-b47a-cf598c451bbb?shareToken=7759b37c7a322820bced6d848da3929a>
>>>
>>
>> The union leaders are not the easiest of people to negotiate with. “It’s
>> like dealing with people stuck in the 1980s,” a senior rail source said
>> this week.
>>
>> …
>>
>> At the heart of the issue is the growing cost of running the railway at a
>> time when passenger numbers have still not  recovered from the
>> pandemic. On
>> weekdays they have stabilised at about 75 per cent of pre-coronavirus
>> levels with rail bosses believing that working from home means they
>> will be
>> unlikely to creep up any further.
>>
>
> I think it's going to be a repeat of the mid 1980's where a Tory
> government broke the NUM.  This time the Tory government will break the
> RMT, which probably won’t be a bad thing, if a more moderate rail union
> is formed afterwards.  The train drivers should think themselves lucky
> on pay, when they earn 64% more than  the average wage and now they want
> an 11 percent rise, to say the train drivers are being greedy is an
> understatement. Over the past ten years train drivers pay has risen, by
> almost half, from £42,482 in 2011 to £59,198 last year. That's 20 times
> the increase the average worker has seen over that time.

Unlikely to break the NRM on this one. It happened last time because the
Thatcher government had literally been preparing the ground for years,
ever since they failed to break ACTT in 1979. Later the tories built up
the coal stocks, depressed the economy so other work was no longer
available and then prayed that Scargill was stupid enough to fall for
it, which he was.

Boris is in the same position as 1979, no preparation, no clue how to do
it and an economy that could provide a reasonable amount of alternative
temporary work if needed in the event of a long dispute. EG Anna could
drive a delivery van for Amazon if they needed to get some income to pay
the mortgage. That's basically what I did in 1979, obviously not Amazon,
actually a company called Allthreads. I was delivering nuts and bolts to
engineering companies and construction sites across the south of England.

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

On 18/06/2022 12:10, MB wrote:
> On 18/06/2022 12:02, Weather or Not wrote:
>> I think it's going to be a repeat of the mid 1980's where a Tory
>> government broke the NUM.  This time the Tory government will break the
>> RMT, which probably won’t be a bad thing, if a more moderate rail union
>> is formed afterwards.  The train drivers should think themselves lucky
>> on pay, when they earn 64% more than  the average wage and now they want
>> an 11 percent rise, to say the train drivers are being greedy is an
>> understatement. Over the past ten years train drivers pay has risen, by
>> almost half, from £42,482 in 2011 to £59,198 last year. That's 20 times
>> the increase the average worker has seen over that time.
>
> Previously the commuters were their target but Work From Home has shown
> that people can avoid commuting, and as with the thread on Glyndebourne
> there are plenty of coach companies who could take on the business.
>
> Just depends a bit on there being hotels not full of illegal immigrants
> brought by the RNLI free ferry service.
>
>
>
>

You'd rather they drowned?

--
Graeme Wall
This account not read.

Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 09:03:42 -0000 (UTC), Recliner <recliner.usenet@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Peter Brookes Times cartoon: June 18 2022
>>
>> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/88296480-ee73-11ec-8821-d2e916a7eab3?shareToken=4c299a9c25249f7a003a97c0eed74fd2>
>
> It's amusing to see that, to a cartoonist, the stock representation of a train
> is an HST.

That's a very odd-looking HST!

> Despite the fact that very few workers of the type depicted in the
> cartoon are likely to be travelling to work on one.
>

Unless they are in and area bounded by Cardiff, Worcester and Penzance, of
course. Or to a lesser extent, Scotland.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

Weather or Not <joe.egginton@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 18/06/2022 02:45, Recliner wrote:
>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/272c1bd4-ee80-11ec-b47a-cf598c451bbb?shareToken=7759b37c7a322820bced6d848da3929a>
>>
>> The union leaders are not the easiest of people to negotiate with. “It’s
>> like dealing with people stuck in the 1980s,” a senior rail source said
>> this week.
>>
>> …
>>
>> At the heart of the issue is the growing cost of running the railway at a
>> time when passenger numbers have still not recovered from the pandemic. On
>> weekdays they have stabilised at about 75 per cent of pre-coronavirus
>> levels with rail bosses believing that working from home means they will be
>> unlikely to creep up any further.
>>
>
> I think it's going to be a repeat of the mid 1980's where a Tory
> government broke the NUM. This time the Tory government will break the
> RMT, which probably won’t be a bad thing, if a more moderate rail union
> is formed afterwards. The train drivers should think themselves lucky
> on pay, when they earn 64% more than the average wage and now they want
> an 11 percent rise, to say the train drivers are being greedy is an
> understatement. Over the past ten years train drivers pay has risen, by
> almost half, from £42,482 in 2011 to £59,198 last year. That's 20 times
> the increase the average worker has seen over that time.
>

RMT represent few train drivers, and most train drivers haven't yet been
ballotted for strike action.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 11:52:33 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 18/06/2022 11:27, Mark Goodge wrote:
>> There are two main benefits to union membership.
>
>I was told of one large American company that was not unionised, they
>took over another company that was heavily unionised. American employers
>are not allowed to influence employees about whether they should be
>union members.

Oh?

Weather or Not <joe.egginton@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think it's going to be a repeat of the mid 1980's where a Tory
> government broke the NUM. This time the Tory government will break the
> RMT, which probably won’t be a bad thing, if a more moderate rail union
> is formed afterwards. The train drivers should think themselves lucky
> on pay, when they earn 64% more than the average wage and now they want
> an 11 percent rise, to say the train drivers are being greedy is an
> understatement. Over the past ten years train drivers pay has risen, by
> almost half, from £42,482 in 2011 to £59,198 last year. That's 20 times
> the increase the average worker has seen over that time.

As discussed elsewhere, some of the people involved are signalling workers
and station staff, which is why the TSSA are part of the action. I'm
not aware of those people being particularly well paid.

Theo

On 18/06/2022 12:02, Weather or Not wrote:
> On 18/06/2022 02:45, Recliner wrote:
>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/272c1bd4-ee80-11ec-b47a-cf598c451bbb?shareToken=7759b37c7a322820bced6d848da3929a>
>>>
>>
>> The union leaders are not the easiest of people to negotiate with. “It’s
>> like dealing with people stuck in the 1980s,” a senior rail source said
>> this week.
>>
>> …
>>
>> At the heart of the issue is the growing cost of running the railway at a
>> time when passenger numbers have still not  recovered from the
>> pandemic. On
>> weekdays they have stabilised at about 75 per cent of pre-coronavirus
>> levels with rail bosses believing that working from home means they
>> will be
>> unlikely to creep up any further.
>>
>
> I think it's going to be a repeat of the mid 1980's where a Tory
> government broke the NUM.  This time the Tory government will break the
> RMT, which probably won’t be a bad thing, if a more moderate rail union
> is formed afterwards.  The train drivers should think themselves lucky
> on pay, when they earn 64% more than  the average wage and now they want
> an 11 percent rise, to say the train drivers are being greedy is an
> understatement. Over the past ten years train drivers pay has risen, by
> almost half, from £42,482 in 2011 to £59,198 last year. That's 20 times
> the increase the average worker has seen over that time.

The RMT needs to be wary that it does not do for the railway industry
what Scargill did for the coal mining industry.

There are probably elements within the tory party & DfT who would be
happy to see a repeat of the Marples / Beeching "cure" of railway
finances as a way of reducing public spending.

The long ASLEF strike of 1955 was one of the factors that hastened the
decline of rail use, and worsening the financial state of BR.

On 18/06/2022 21:39, Theo wrote:
> As discussed elsewhere, some of the people involved are signalling workers
> and station staff, which is why the TSSA are part of the action. I'm
> not aware of those people being particularly well paid.

And for all the talk of unity, the richer unions do not usually do not
worry too much the smaller ones.

I remember a colleague telling me about once going to the union annual
conference. He got talking to someone from a very small branch who had
problem he wanted to solve. He told the man to get up and propose a
motion and he would second it.

When he did so, a very large official from one of the large London
branches got up and said something like "we don't have time to waste on
these trivial matters" and they went back to navel gazing about Left
wing politics.

In message <t8l2lr$mua$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:40:11 on Sat, 18 Jun
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Weather or Not <joe.egginton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 18/06/2022 02:45, Recliner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/272c1bd4-ee80-11ec-b47a-cf598c451b
>>>>bb?shareToken=7759b37c7a322820bced6d848da3929a>
>>>
>>> The union leaders are not the easiest of people to negotiate with. “It’s
>>> like dealing with people stuck in the 1980s,” a senior rail source said
>>> this week.
>>>
>>> …
>>>
>>> At the heart of the issue is the growing cost of running the railway at a
>>> time when passenger numbers have still not recovered from the pandemic. On
>>> weekdays they have stabilised at about 75 per cent of pre-coronavirus
>>> levels with rail bosses believing that working from home means they will be
>>> unlikely to creep up any further.
>>>
>>
>> I think it's going to be a repeat of the mid 1980's where a Tory
>> government broke the NUM. This time the Tory government will break the
>> RMT, which probably won’t be a bad thing, if a more moderate rail union
>> is formed afterwards. The train drivers should think themselves lucky
>> on pay, when they earn 64% more than the average wage and now they want
>> an 11 percent rise, to say the train drivers are being greedy is an
>> understatement. Over the past ten years train drivers pay has risen, by
>> almost half, from £42,482 in 2011 to £59,198 last year. That's 20 times
>> the increase the average worker has seen over that time.
>
>RMT represent few train drivers, and most train drivers haven't yet been
>ballotted for strike action.

Presumably you mean "and therefore most...". Something perhaps the media
needs to think about when writing news stories about for example Island
Line and how they hope to run a service because their staff 'voted not
to strike'.
--
Roland Perry

On 18/06/2022 09:14, Graeme Wall wrote:

> Rather amused that Glyndebourne is on the list of events liable to
> disruption. I sincerely doubt that een as much as 1% of the audience
> would even contemplate using the train even in normal times. It's a long
> way from the nearest station with no bus service.

Late evening up trains from Lewes are often packed with people in
evening dress, who I think might be returning from Glyndebourne. I
believe there are shuttles buses to and from Lewes station.

I've no idea what percentage of the audience they might be, but the raw
numbers are definitely non-zero.
--
Arthur Figgis

On 18/06/2022 10:27, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <t8k3pv$r96$3@dont-email.me>, at 09:53:20 on Sat, 18 Jun
> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>> On 18/06/2022 09:14, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>> Rather amused that Glyndebourne is on the list of events liable to
>>> disruption. I sincerely doubt that een as much as 1% of the audience
>>> would even contemplate using the train even in normal times. It's a long
>>> way from the nearest station with no bus service.
>>
>> Just did a quick search, a lot of people offering packages including
>> travel by train with bus prebooked to take from the station.
>>
>> "Probably the most glamorous train journey you will ever make with
>> most passengers dressed up for the concert".
>
> Will that corner-case railtour run during a strike period?

I see them on GTR's bog standard scheduled Electrostar services. I guess
a lot live in London and will be used to using public transport
everywhere (and aren't in a fit state to drive anyway!).

--
Arthur Figgis

On 18/06/2022 10:03, Recliner wrote:
> Peter Brookes Times cartoon: June 18 2022
>
> <https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/88296480-ee73-11ec-8821-d2e916a7eab3?shareToken=4c299a9c25249f7a003a97c0eed74fd2>

I wonder when was the last time the cartoonist travelled by rail, or met
a worker of the sort depicted?

--
Arthur Figgis

Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <t8l2lr$mua$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:40:11 on Sat, 18 Jun
> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>> Weather or Not <joe.egginton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 18/06/2022 02:45, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/272c1bd4-ee80-11ec-b47a-cf598c451b
>>>>> bb?shareToken=7759b37c7a322820bced6d848da3929a>
>>>>
>>>> The union leaders are not the easiest of people to negotiate with. “It’s
>>>> like dealing with people stuck in the 1980s,” a senior rail source said
>>>> this week.
>>>>
>>>> …
>>>>
>>>> At the heart of the issue is the growing cost of running the railway at a
>>>> time when passenger numbers have still not recovered from the pandemic. On
>>>> weekdays they have stabilised at about 75 per cent of pre-coronavirus
>>>> levels with rail bosses believing that working from home means they will be
>>>> unlikely to creep up any further.
>>>>
>>>
>>> I think it's going to be a repeat of the mid 1980's where a Tory
>>> government broke the NUM. This time the Tory government will break the
>>> RMT, which probably won’t be a bad thing, if a more moderate rail union
>>> is formed afterwards. The train drivers should think themselves lucky
>>> on pay, when they earn 64% more than the average wage and now they want
>>> an 11 percent rise, to say the train drivers are being greedy is an
>>> understatement. Over the past ten years train drivers pay has risen, by
>>> almost half, from £42,482 in 2011 to £59,198 last year. That's 20 times
>>> the increase the average worker has seen over that time.
>>
>> RMT represent few train drivers, and most train drivers haven't yet been
>> ballotted for strike action.
>
> Presumably you mean "and therefore most...".

No, two separate statements, no 'therefore'.

RMT represent few train drivers.

Most train drivers haven't yet been ballotted for strike action, but are
expecting to be soon.

> Something perhaps the media
> needs to think about when writing news stories about for example Island
> Line and how they hope to run a service because their staff 'voted not
> to strike'.

It's interesting that IL get a separate ballot despite being part of SWR.

Anna Noyd-Dryver

In message <ldWdnYpB_MgZlTL_nZ2dnUU7-I2dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
12:29:08 on Sun, 19 Jun 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
remarked:
>On 18/06/2022 10:27, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <t8k3pv$r96$3@dont-email.me>, at 09:53:20 on Sat, 18 Jun
>>2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>> On 18/06/2022 09:14, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>> Rather amused that Glyndebourne is on the list of events liable to
>>>> disruption. I sincerely doubt that een as much as 1% of the audience
>>>> would even contemplate using the train even in normal times. It's a long
>>>> way from the nearest station with no bus service.
>>>
>>> Just did a quick search, a lot of people offering packages including
>>>travel by train with bus prebooked to take from the station.
>>>
>>> "Probably the most glamorous train journey you will ever make with
>>>most passengers dressed up for the concert".

>> Will that corner-case railtour run during a strike period?
>
>I see them on GTR's bog standard scheduled Electrostar services.

I presume you mean the skeleton strike-timetable service?

>I guess a lot live in London and will be used to using public transport
>everywhere (and aren't in a fit state to drive anyway!).

--
Roland Perry

In message <t8np3d$fk4$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:15:10 on Sun, 19 Jun
2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>> In message <t8l2lr$mua$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:40:11 on Sat, 18 Jun
>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>> Weather or Not <joe.egginton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> On 18/06/2022 02:45, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/272c1bd4-ee80-11ec-b47a-cf598c451b
>>>>>> bb?shareToken=7759b37c7a322820bced6d848da3929a>
>>>>>
>>>>> The union leaders are not the easiest of people to negotiate with.
>>>>>“It’s
>>>>> like dealing with people stuck in the 1980s,” a senior rail source said
>>>>> this week.
>>>>>
>>>>> …
>>>>>
>>>>> At the heart of the issue is the growing cost of running the railway at a
>>>>> time when passenger numbers have still not recovered from the
>>>>>pandemic. On
>>>>> weekdays they have stabilised at about 75 per cent of pre-coronavirus
>>>>> levels with rail bosses believing that working from home means
>>>>>they will be
>>>>> unlikely to creep up any further.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I think it's going to be a repeat of the mid 1980's where a Tory
>>>> government broke the NUM. This time the Tory government will break the
>>>> RMT, which probably won’t be a bad thing, if a more moderate rail union
>>>> is formed afterwards. The train drivers should think themselves lucky
>>>> on pay, when they earn 64% more than the average wage and now they want
>>>> an 11 percent rise, to say the train drivers are being greedy is an
>>>> understatement. Over the past ten years train drivers pay has risen, by
>>>> almost half, from £42,482 in 2011 to £59,198 last year. That's 20 times
>>>> the increase the average worker has seen over that time.
>>>
>>> RMT represent few train drivers, and most train drivers haven't yet been
>>> ballotted for strike action.
>>
>> Presumably you mean "and therefore most...".
>
>No, two separate statements, no 'therefore'.
>
>RMT represent few train drivers.
>
>Most train drivers haven't yet been ballotted for strike action, but are
>expecting to be soon.

You've just confirmed the "therefore" option.

>> Something perhaps the media needs to think about when writing news
>>stories about for example Island Line and how they hope to run a
>>service because their staff 'voted not to strike'.
>
>It's interesting that IL get a separate ballot despite being part of SWR.

Isn't it a separate TOC, at least in theory?
--
Roland Perry

On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 15:03:31 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <t8np3d$fk4$2@dont-email.me>, at 18:15:10 on Sun, 19 Jun
>2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <t8l2lr$mua$1@dont-email.me>, at 17:40:11 on Sat, 18 Jun
>>> 2022, Anna Noyd-Dryver <anna@noyd-dryver.com> remarked:
>>>> Weather or Not <joe.egginton@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> On 18/06/2022 02:45, Recliner wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/272c1bd4-ee80-11ec-b47a-cf598c451b
>>>>>>> bb?shareToken=7759b37c7a322820bced6d848da3929a>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The union leaders are not the easiest of people to negotiate with.
>>>>>>“It’s
>>>>>> like dealing with people stuck in the 1980s,” a senior rail source said
>>>>>> this week.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> …
>>>>>>
>>>>>> At the heart of the issue is the growing cost of running the railway at a
>>>>>> time when passenger numbers have still not recovered from the
>>>>>>pandemic. On
>>>>>> weekdays they have stabilised at about 75 per cent of pre-coronavirus
>>>>>> levels with rail bosses believing that working from home means
>>>>>>they will be
>>>>>> unlikely to creep up any further.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I think it's going to be a repeat of the mid 1980's where a Tory
>>>>> government broke the NUM. This time the Tory government will break the
>>>>> RMT, which probably won’t be a bad thing, if a more moderate rail union
>>>>> is formed afterwards. The train drivers should think themselves lucky
>>>>> on pay, when they earn 64% more than the average wage and now they want
>>>>> an 11 percent rise, to say the train drivers are being greedy is an
>>>>> understatement. Over the past ten years train drivers pay has risen, by
>>>>> almost half, from £42,482 in 2011 to £59,198 last year. That's 20 times
>>>>> the increase the average worker has seen over that time.
>>>>
>>>> RMT represent few train drivers, and most train drivers haven't yet been
>>>> ballotted for strike action.
>>>
>>> Presumably you mean "and therefore most...".
>>
>>No, two separate statements, no 'therefore'.
>>
>>RMT represent few train drivers.
>>
>>Most train drivers haven't yet been ballotted for strike action, but are
>>expecting to be soon.
>
>You've just confirmed the "therefore" option.
>
>>> Something perhaps the media needs to think about when writing news
>>>stories about for example Island Line and how they hope to run a
>>>service because their staff 'voted not to strike'.
>>
>>It's interesting that IL get a separate ballot despite being part of SWR.
>
>Isn't it a separate TOC, at least in theory?

Yes, I think so. It's automatically awarded to the SWR TOC, but is treated separately.

On 20/06/2022 15:01, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <ldWdnYpB_MgZlTL_nZ2dnUU7-I2dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
> 12:29:08 on Sun, 19 Jun 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
> remarked:
>> On 18/06/2022 10:27, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <t8k3pv$r96$3@dont-email.me>, at 09:53:20 on Sat, 18 Jun
>>> 2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>> On 18/06/2022 09:14, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>> Rather amused that Glyndebourne is on the list of events liable to
>>>>> disruption. I sincerely doubt that een as much as 1% of the audience
>>>>> would even contemplate using the train even in normal times. It's a
>>>>> long
>>>>> way from the nearest station with no bus service.
>>>>
>>>> Just did a quick search, a lot of people offering packages including
>>>> travel by train with bus prebooked to take from the station.
>>>>
>>>> "Probably the most glamorous train journey you will ever make with
>>>> most passengers dressed up for the concert".
>
>>>  Will that corner-case railtour run during a strike period?
>>
>> I see them on GTR's bog standard scheduled Electrostar services.
>
> I presume you mean the skeleton strike-timetable service?

Obviously not, as it hasn't started yet. But I travel through Lewes
moderately often (most recently on Saturday), and often see people
getting on in black tie on a late evening.

"All Glyndebourne performances finish in time for audiences to return to
London by train."
https://www.glyndebourne.com/your-visit/how-to-get-here/

--
Arthur Figgis

In message <DfSdnYm5oscvNi3_nZ2dnUU7-LHNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
18:17:38 on Mon, 20 Jun 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
remarked:
>On 20/06/2022 15:01, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <ldWdnYpB_MgZlTL_nZ2dnUU7-I2dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, at
>>12:29:08 on Sun, 19 Jun 2022, Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid>
>>remarked:
>>> On 18/06/2022 10:27, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>> In message <t8k3pv$r96$3@dont-email.me>, at 09:53:20 on Sat, 18 Jun
>>>>2022, MB <MB@nospam.net> remarked:
>>>>> On 18/06/2022 09:14, Graeme Wall wrote:
>>>>>> Rather amused that Glyndebourne is on the list of events liable to
>>>>>> disruption. I sincerely doubt that een as much as 1% of the audience
>>>>>> would even contemplate using the train even in normal times. It's
>>>>>>a long
>>>>>> way from the nearest station with no bus service.
>>>>>
>>>>> Just did a quick search, a lot of people offering packages
>>>>>including travel by train with bus prebooked to take from the station.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Probably the most glamorous train journey you will ever make with
>>>>>most passengers dressed up for the concert".
>>
>>>>  Will that corner-case railtour run during a strike period?
>>>
>>> I see them on GTR's bog standard scheduled Electrostar services.
>> I presume you mean the skeleton strike-timetable service?
>
>Obviously not, as it hasn't started yet. But I travel through Lewes
>moderately often (most recently on Saturday), and often see people
>getting on in black tie on a late evening.
>
>"All Glyndebourne performances finish in time for audiences to return
>to London by train."

As long as it's not a strike day when no trains run after about 6pm.

>https://www.glyndebourne.com/your-visit/how-to-get-here/
>

--
Roland Perry

Am 19.06.2022 um 00:08 schrieb Bevan Price:
> On 18/06/2022 12:02, Weather or Not wrote:

> There are probably elements within the tory party & DfT who would be
> happy to see a repeat of the Marples / Beeching "cure" of railway
> finances as a way of reducing public spending.
>
> The long ASLEF strike of 1955 was one of the factors that hastened the
> decline of rail use, and worsening the financial state of BR.

'Hastened' is the relevant word. In Germany, railway workers were
"public service" with no permission to go on strike, and Beeching-like
cuts occured during the 1960's / 1970's in just the same way as in UK.

I strike might shift technological change by a few years but this will
be an "occasion" rather than a "root cause".

In Germany, a postal strike once (late 1980's?) triggered FAX to receive
the legal status of a "written document". which probably would have
happened a few aears later without that strike; maybe that would have
resulted in a less technology-specific legal change that would have
simplified the move to pure electronic formats some years later.

Germany in 2021 still used FAX for legal purposes where other countries
used signed PDF documents (even our COVID case nubmers had to be FAXed
to the health ministry until mid-2021).

Arthur Figgis <afiggis@example.invalid> wrote:
> On 18/06/2022 09:14, Graeme Wall wrote:
>
>> Rather amused that Glyndebourne is on the list of events liable to
>> disruption. I sincerely doubt that een as much as 1% of the audience
>> would even contemplate using the train even in normal times. It's a long
>> way from the nearest station with no bus service.
>
> Late evening up trains from Lewes are often packed with people in
> evening dress, who I think might be returning from Glyndebourne. I
> believe there are shuttles buses to and from Lewes station.
>
> I've no idea what percentage of the audience they might be, but the raw
> numbers are definitely non-zero.

It turns out that coaches weren't the only alternative transport options:

From
<https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/06/23/top-gun-tenor-flies-rescue-illness-threatens-glyndebourne-show/>

When the tenor for the role of Marc in Ethel Smith’s The Wreckers came down
with an illness at the last minute, the organisers of Glyndebourne Opera
Festival were facing disaster.

The understudy was already out of action and the only other person on the
planet capable of playing the part was a 280-mile drive away.

The Wreckers, which tells the tale of a small Cornish village driven mad by
an imminent storm, is rarely performed as it is. Yet Glyndebourne chose to
put it on in the original French, something that had never been done
before.

Only Rodrigo Porras Garulo, as well as his understudy, and Adam Gilbert of
Cenarth, Carmarthenshire, had ever learned the part.

“There were only three people in the world, really, that knew it. There was
Rodrigo, the first cover, and then me as the second cover. So when they
were both ill, I was sort of the last man standing. It was very bizarre,”
Mr Gilbert told The Telegraph.

There were also just four-and-a-half hours before curtain-up when Mr
Gilbert got the call.

“Usually you get an inkling maybe the day before, they'll say, ‘Oh, he's
not feeling very well, can you be prepared?’ Or at least by 10 o'clock in
the morning, but you know, quarter past 12 is quite late,” the tenor said.

Plans to take his young son to see the seals at nearby Cardigan Island were
abandoned and he hastily dropped his son off with his wife before jumping
in the car and heading for southern England.

“I’d promised him he’d see the seals. He was very disappointed. I'm not
sure he's quite forgiven me yet for not taking him,” said Mr Gilbert.

With rail strikes crippling the nation and progress by road proving less
than speedy, it was becoming clear Mr Gilbert would not be making it to
Glyndebourne in time.

Cue another frantic phone call as the emergency tenor was passing near
Bristol. Could he, the festival team wanted to know, make it to Bath to
meet a specially chartered helicopter?

Of course, came the response, and with the start of the show less than an
hour away Mr Gilbert raced for the Lucknam Park Hotel & Spa.

When Mr Gilbert, 33, arrived at the luxurious retreat he had the surreal
experience of walking into reception and telling them “I need to meet a
helicopter.”

To his surprise, the response came: “It’s on the front lawn waiting.”

He ran outside and found “this lovely big helicopter, but no pilots, nobody
there. So I thought oh my gosh, what's happening now?”

Lucknam, it turned out, was no stranger to helicoptering guests. “It wasn’t
for me. What are the chances of that?”

Eventually, the correct, and somewhat smaller, helicopter turned up and
lifted off with Mr Gilbert aboard.

Meanwhile, in Glyndebourne, artistic director Stephen Langridge was getting
ready to go on stage to explain the situation to the audience.

Cancelling the show was out of the question, he told the BBC. The rail
strike meant many in the audience had driven hours to be there so it was
“not an option”.

Mr Porras Garulo, the original, under-the-weather star, was sent on for the
first act and did his best to perform.

“Rodrigo soldiered on,” said Mr Gilbert. “Luckily the first act doesn't
really feature that role too much.”

While Mr Porras Garulo persevered, his second understudy was having the
time of his life soaring through the skies along the South Coast. “It was a
nice, clear day. The pilot Alex was brilliant. He was pointing out
different things and showing me what was around."

In less than an hour, he was landing on the lawn of Glyndebourne house and
racing to the theatre. “It was very bizarre, with my bag, running over a
field. A bit like Tom Cruise but actually more like Mr Bean," Mr Gilbert
said.

He grabbed a quick sandwich, put on his suit and on he went for a
performance that six hours previously he had no idea he would be giving.

The reception at the curtain call was rapturous, he said. “It was terrific.
absolutely terrific.”

There’s still one performance left of The Wreckers at Glyndebourne on
Friday. When he spoke to the Telegraph, Mr Gilbert was on his way to a
different production in Southampton, still waiting for news of whether he
might be needed again as Marc.

For now, he said, he was staying nearby. Just in case.

On 18/06/2022 18:40, Anna Noyd-Dryver wrote:
> Weather or Not <joe.egginton@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 18/06/2022 02:45, Recliner wrote:
>>>> https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/272c1bd4-ee80-11ec-b47a-cf598c451bbb?shareToken=7759b37c7a322820bced6d848da3929a>
>>>
>>> The union leaders are not the easiest of people to negotiate with. “It’s
>>> like dealing with people stuck in the 1980s,” a senior rail source said
>>> this week.
>>>
>>> …
>>>
>>> At the heart of the issue is the growing cost of running the railway at a
>>> time when passenger numbers have still not recovered from the pandemic. On
>>> weekdays they have stabilised at about 75 per cent of pre-coronavirus
>>> levels with rail bosses believing that working from home means they will be
>>> unlikely to creep up any further.
>>>
>>
>> I think it's going to be a repeat of the mid 1980's where a Tory
>> government broke the NUM. This time the Tory government will break the
>> RMT, which probably won’t be a bad thing, if a more moderate rail union
>> is formed afterwards. The train drivers should think themselves lucky
>> on pay, when they earn 64% more than the average wage and now they want
>> an 11 percent rise, to say the train drivers are being greedy is an
>> understatement. Over the past ten years train drivers pay has risen, by
>> almost half, from £42,482 in 2011 to £59,198 last year. That's 20 times
>> the increase the average worker has seen over that time.
>>
>
> RMT represent few train drivers, and most train drivers haven't yet been
> ballotted for strike action.
>
>
> Anna Noyd-Dryver
>
So are most train drivers working normally on strike days or just not
crossing picket lines?