On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 14:08:39 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>On 04/04/2022 12:43, Andy Burns wrote:
>> What does LIDAR think of snow?
>
>A friend worked at RSRE and was involved in one project where they
>wondered if a helicopter radar altimeter displayed height above the
>surface of snow or height above the ground.
>
>He spent a pleasant couple of weeks in the Cairngorm with a helicopter!

A rather unnerving couple of weeks I would have thought. I wouldn't
want to fly a helicopter over the Cairngorms until I knew the answer
to that question.

Rod.

On Mon, 4 Apr 2022 12:42:54 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

>I have an old edition of the Highway Code but cannot find it. I am sure
>it is long been the rule that vehicles have to give way to pedestrians
>when turning at a road junction but I keep reading people who think this
>is new.

There are good reasons to allow a vehicle turning off a main road into
a side road to do so promptly (to avoid the risk of being hit from
behind by an idiot, for example) and therefore for pedestrians walking
across the end of such a side road to give priority to this for the
safety of all.

When I was young, we were taught something called "kerb drill" and
when my children were young they were taught something called the
"green cross code", which appeared to be the same thing with a
different name, but fundamentally another variant of "look before you
leap because you're the one who will suffer if you don't". The
overriding principle seemed to be a recognition that pavements are for
pedestrians and roads are for cars, and the onus is on whoever is
encroaching on foreign territory, as it were, to give priority to its
proper users, which always seemed logical to me.

Now my grandchildren's generation have phones and many of them behave
on the roads like blind zombies who assume it's everybody else's job
to look out for them. This attitude seems to have infected many adults
too. Making the results of their carelessness legally somebody else's
fault does nothing to diminish this sense of entitlement.

Rod.

On 04/04/2022 15:28, Roderick Stewart wrote:

> When I was young, we were taught something called "kerb drill"

I grew up about 100 yards from a major trunk road, and rather than Kerb
Drill, it was impressed on me at a very early age that a car would run
me over if I gave it the chance to do so, and I had to make sure I never
gave it a chance.

Also, when with a parent at a bus stop I was given interesting things to
do, like looking at the cars travelling in both directions and deciding
which one would pass me first, or estimating how many I could count up
to before a particular car passed me. At the time I thought it was just
something to keep me entertained while waiting for the bus, but in
hindsight it taught me to very quickly estimate speed and distance.

Nearly 70 years later I can still glance at approaching traffic and
decide immediately whether I can get across a road without risking being
hit. It was life-saving education.

Jim

On 04/04/2022 15:04, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> A rather unnerving couple of weeks I would have thought. I wouldn't
> want to fly a helicopter over the Cairngorms until I knew the answer
> to that question.

It was beautiful weather, with the hills covered in deep snow. They
would compare the height from the height finding radar with that from a
plumb line (he was supposed to get it flight approved but got the
workshop to make one for him then asked the pilot who was quite happy to
let him use it!). They would land on the snow and he would measure the
depth using avalanche poles.

On 04/04/2022 15:28, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> When I was young, we were taught something called "kerb drill" and
> when my children were young they were taught something called the
> "green cross code", which appeared to be the same thing with a
> different name,

I think the difference was that kerb drill required you to look right,
left, then right again, but the green cross code just required you to
look for traffic.

David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
> On 04/04/2022 15:28, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> When I was young, we were taught something called "kerb drill" and
>> when my children were young they were taught something called the
>> "green cross code", which appeared to be the same thing with a
>> different name,
>
> I think the difference was that kerb drill required you to look right,
> left, then right again, but the green cross code just required you to
> look for traffic.
>

and to keep looking as you crossed.

Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

> David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
> > On 04/04/2022 15:28, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> >> When I was young, we were taught something called "kerb drill" and
> >> when my children were young they were taught something called the
> >> "green cross code", which appeared to be the same thing with a
> >> different name,
> >
> > I think the difference was that kerb drill required you to look right,
> > left, then right again, but the green cross code just required you to
> > look for traffic.
> >
>
> and to keep looking as you crossed.

Don't forget the Tufty Club.
<https://www.rospa.com/about/history/tufty>

--
^Ï^ Slava Ukraini

My pet rock Gordon says: "We will all go together when we go."

On 04/04/2022 21:15, David Woolley wrote:
> On 04/04/2022 15:28, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>> When I was young, we were taught something called "kerb drill" and
>> when my children were young they were taught something called the
>> "green cross code", which appeared to be the same thing with a
>> different name,
>
> I think the difference was that kerb drill required you to look right,
> left, then right again, but the green cross code just required you to
> look for traffic.

Stop, Look, and Listen before you cross the street.
Use your eyes and use your ears before you use your feet.

That was the road safety message taught in my primary school.

Jim

On Sun, 03 Apr 2022 08:50:33 +0100, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

>>This is Britain, don't forget. The change-over would be cars at first
>>to see how it went, followed by lorries a few weeks afterwards.
>>
>>:-)
>>
>>Jim
>
> Electric scooters first please.

Makes no difference. The f***ers operating them just go where they like
without regard to anybody or anything else anyway. Untouchable, until
they go under a lorry. Proof that Darwin is right... eventually.

On Mon, 04 Apr 2022 23:50:34 GMT, Paul Ratcliffe
<abuse@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote:

>On Sun, 03 Apr 2022 08:50:33 +0100, Roderick Stewart
><rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>This is Britain, don't forget. The change-over would be cars at first
>>>to see how it went, followed by lorries a few weeks afterwards.
>>>
>>>:-)
>>>
>>>Jim
>>
>> Electric scooters first please.
>
>Makes no difference. The f***ers operating them just go where they like
>without regard to anybody or anything else anyway. Untouchable, until
>they go under a lorry. Proof that Darwin is right... eventually.

I wonder how much of the trouble caused by these machines is really
the result of their inherent properties, and how much is the result of
the fact that their users do not carry any visible identification as
cars do? People who can be anonymous and thereby avoid responsibility
for their actions will inevitably behave differently from those who
have to face them.

Rod.

"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:oa2o4hhjemev4rnae91cc7u4fq85ubje2m@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 04 Apr 2022 23:50:34 GMT, Paul Ratcliffe
> <abuse@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 03 Apr 2022 08:50:33 +0100, Roderick Stewart
>><rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>This is Britain, don't forget. The change-over would be cars at first
>>>>to see how it went, followed by lorries a few weeks afterwards.
>>>>
>>>>:-)
>>>>
>>>>Jim
>>>
>>> Electric scooters first please.
>>
>>Makes no difference. The f***ers operating them just go where they like
>>without regard to anybody or anything else anyway. Untouchable, until
>>they go under a lorry. Proof that Darwin is right... eventually.
>
> I wonder how much of the trouble caused by these machines is really
> the result of their inherent properties, and how much is the result of
> the fact that their users do not carry any visible identification as
> cars do? People who can be anonymous and thereby avoid responsibility
> for their actions will inevitably behave differently from those who
> have to face them.

It is often down to the users having no perception of what is around them
and thinking that they take priority over everyone else.

I once had a user of a mobility scooter back into me in a supermarket when
she engaged reverse and hit the power button even though I was close behind
her. I saw her do it but I wasn't able to react quickly enough. And then
*she* yelled at me for "not getting out of her way". She bloody hurt me, and
I told her so (and other people round me backed me up that it was her fault
entirely) but I didn't get one word of apology.

I've also seen scooter users in supermarkets riding full-tilt down an aisle,
barging trolleys left and right out of their way. Utterly reckless.

It is the standard problem of letting people who are too unsteady on their
feet, and may have other perception problems, ride scooters which require at
least *some* care in using them. When they were younger and on their feet,
would they have suddenly stepped back into the person behind, or would they
have checked over their shoulder?

I've recently re-watched some of the old "Gideon of The Yard" episodes that
were made by the same company that had made "The Saint" TV series. The
level of 'drama' is a tad low by modern standards, but the stories seem
decent adaptions from the books.

You mentioning Dragnet made me recall a series that I think was called
"Cannonball" which was about the adventures of a pair of USA 'truckers'.
But in both cases all I can remember is no more than an image of them on
screen - plus, for Dragnet their catchphrase "Ten-Four". I think that was
lampooned in "Mad" magazine. 8-]

The Maigret series was on Talking Pictures TV recently.

Jim

In article <t2c98d$aef$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> I noticed the original Perry Mason being screened the other day, the
> sound on that was quite good, albeit mono. I never could stand that
> series.

> I wonder how far back they can go? There were a lot of old American tv
> series made. 77 Sunset Strip, Dragnet,

> I did spot a few episodes of a uk series, No hiding place the other day
> on Talking pictures, the sound was quit good, but I'm not so soure about
> Magret with Rupert Davies which was on somewhere the other night. It
> might be nice to see Danger Man again, and unlike many I did think The
> Prisoner was quite good if you read between the lines and look at it as
> an extreme idea of how we were going as a society. Brian

--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me.
Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

On 04/04/2022 23:17, Indy Jess John wrote:
> On 04/04/2022 21:15, David Woolley wrote:
>> On 04/04/2022 15:28, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>> When I was young, we were taught something called "kerb drill" and
>>> when my children were young they were taught something called the
>>> "green cross code", which appeared to be the same thing with a
>>> different name,
>>
>> I think the difference was that kerb drill required you to look right,
>> left, then right again, but the green cross code just required you to
>> look for traffic.
>
> Stop, Look, and Listen before you cross the street.
> Use your eyes and use your ears before you use your feet.
>
> That was the road safety message taught in my primary school.

The "listen" bit is of a lot less use with approaching EVs. :-(

--

Jeff

On 05/04/2022 00:50, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Apr 2022 08:50:33 +0100, Roderick Stewart
> <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>> This is Britain, don't forget. The change-over would be cars at first
>>> to see how it went, followed by lorries a few weeks afterwards.
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> Jim
>> Electric scooters first please.
> Makes no difference. The f***ers operating them just go where they like
> without regard to anybody or anything else anyway. Untouchable, until
> they go under a lorry. Proof that Darwin is right... eventually.
As an Italian colleague once said to me about moped riders in Rome, 'The
authorities write their names in pencil'

Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
>
> The Maigret series was on Talking Pictures TV recently.
>
Which one? There have been several over the years. The one I remember
liking best was way back in the 1960s on the BBC.

--
Chris Green
·

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 10:35:15 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

>"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:oa2o4hhjemev4rnae91cc7u4fq85ubje2m@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 04 Apr 2022 23:50:34 GMT, Paul Ratcliffe
>> <abuse@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 03 Apr 2022 08:50:33 +0100, Roderick Stewart
>>><rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>This is Britain, don't forget. The change-over would be cars at first
>>>>>to see how it went, followed by lorries a few weeks afterwards.
>>>>>
>>>>>:-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Jim
>>>>
>>>> Electric scooters first please.
>>>
>>>Makes no difference. The f***ers operating them just go where they like
>>>without regard to anybody or anything else anyway. Untouchable, until
>>>they go under a lorry. Proof that Darwin is right... eventually.
>>
>> I wonder how much of the trouble caused by these machines is really
>> the result of their inherent properties, and how much is the result of
>> the fact that their users do not carry any visible identification as
>> cars do? People who can be anonymous and thereby avoid responsibility
>> for their actions will inevitably behave differently from those who
>> have to face them.
>
>It is often down to the users having no perception of what is around them
>and thinking that they take priority over everyone else.
>
>I once had a user of a mobility scooter back into me in a supermarket when
>she engaged reverse and hit the power button even though I was close behind
>her. I saw her do it but I wasn't able to react quickly enough. And then
>*she* yelled at me for "not getting out of her way". She bloody hurt me, and
>I told her so (and other people round me backed me up that it was her fault
>entirely) but I didn't get one word of apology.
>
>I've also seen scooter users in supermarkets riding full-tilt down an aisle,
>barging trolleys left and right out of their way. Utterly reckless.
>
>It is the standard problem of letting people who are too unsteady on their
>feet, and may have other perception problems, ride scooters which require at
>least *some* care in using them. When they were younger and on their feet,
>would they have suddenly stepped back into the person behind, or would they
>have checked over their shoulder?

No training.
No test.
No licence.
No age limit.
No registration.
No identification.
No insurance.
No responsibility.

I don't think any type of road vehicle would be very safe if they were
used on that basis, regardless of any characteristic of the vehicles
themselves, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised at the results of
allowing scooters to be so used.

Rod.

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 10:35:15 +0100
"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

> I've also seen scooter users in supermarkets riding full-tilt down an
> aisle, barging trolleys left and right out of their way. Utterly
> reckless.

Luckily I haven't seen her for a few months, but there used to be a
woman here in a very large handicapped buggy who would drive up the
supermarket aisles and brake severely enough to get a screech from
the tyres on the floor. It didn't make any difference how close she
was to other customers. I was always expecting an accident to happen,
hopefully she has been banned from the stores.
--
Davey.

On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 11:06:53 +0100, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:

>Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> The Maigret series was on Talking Pictures TV recently.
>>
>Which one? There have been several over the years. The one I remember
>liking best was way back in the 1960s on the BBC.

I remember that one, though the only thing I can clearly remember from
it was a scene where Maigret was looking round a dark room using a
torch, and for a moment the beam of light cast a shadow of his hand
holding the torch...

Rod.

On 05/04/2022 11:06, Jeff Layman wrote:
> On 04/04/2022 23:17, Indy Jess John wrote:
>> On 04/04/2022 21:15, David Woolley wrote:
>>> On 04/04/2022 15:28, Roderick Stewart wrote:
>>>> When I was young, we were taught something called "kerb drill" and
>>>> when my children were young they were taught something called the
>>>> "green cross code", which appeared to be the same thing with a
>>>> different name,
>>>
>>> I think the difference was that kerb drill required you to look right,
>>> left, then right again, but the green cross code just required you to
>>> look for traffic.
>>
>> Stop, Look, and Listen before you cross the street.
>> Use your eyes and use your ears before you use your feet.
>>
>> That was the road safety message taught in my primary school.
>
> The "listen" bit is of a lot less use with approaching EVs. :-(
>

True, to some extent. Some EVs do create tyre noise.
Also note that I was in my primary school in the 1950s. It was relevant
then; exhausts were a lot noisier before catalytic converters were fitted.

Jim

On 05/04/2022 10:35, NY wrote:

> When they were younger and on their feet,
> would they have suddenly stepped back into the person behind, or would they
> have checked over their shoulder?
>
I have never seen anyone look over their shoulder before stepping back.
I have been bumped into several times as a result.

Jim

In article <t2h9p7$r7q$1@dont-email.me>,
Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
> On 05/04/2022 11:06, Jeff Layman wrote:
> > On 04/04/2022 23:17, Indy Jess John wrote:
> >> On 04/04/2022 21:15, David Woolley wrote:
> >>> On 04/04/2022 15:28, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> >>>> When I was young, we were taught something called "kerb drill" and
> >>>> when my children were young they were taught something called the
> >>>> "green cross code", which appeared to be the same thing with a
> >>>> different name,
> >>>
> >>> I think the difference was that kerb drill required you to look right,
> >>> left, then right again, but the green cross code just required you to
> >>> look for traffic.
> >>
> >> Stop, Look, and Listen before you cross the street.
> >> Use your eyes and use your ears before you use your feet.
> >>
> >> That was the road safety message taught in my primary school.
> >
> > The "listen" bit is of a lot less use with approaching EVs. :-(
> >

> True, to some extent. Some EVs do create tyre noise.
> Also note that I was in my primary school in the 1950s. It was relevant
> then; exhausts were a lot noisier before catalytic converters were fitted.

> Jim

I'm told my EV sounds like an aeroplane taking off, but I don't hear that
from the driver's seat.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

On 05/04/2022 10:27, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> I wonder how much of the trouble caused by these machines is really
> the result of their inherent properties, and how much is the result of
> the fact that their users do not carry any visible identification as
> cars do? People who can be anonymous and thereby avoid responsibility
> for their actions will inevitably behave differently from those who
> have to face them.

The same applies to cyclists.

On 05/04/2022 12:29, Roderick Stewart wrote:
> I don't think any type of road vehicle would be very safe if they were
> used on that basis, regardless of any characteristic of the vehicles
> themselves, so maybe we shouldn't be surprised at the results of
> allowing scooters to be so used.

It is heresy to say anything but I often wonder how many users of
mobility scooters really need them and not just lazy or overweight.

On 05/04/2022 12:30, Davey wrote:
> I was always expecting an accident to happen,
> hopefully she has been banned from the stores.

Probably would not dar because they would be accused of discrimination.

Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 5 Apr 2022 11:06:53 +0100, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
>
> >Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> The Maigret series was on Talking Pictures TV recently.
> >>
> >Which one? There have been several over the years. The one I remember
> >liking best was way back in the 1960s on the BBC.
>
> I remember that one, though the only thing I can clearly remember from
> it was a scene where Maigret was looking round a dark room using a
> torch, and for a moment the beam of light cast a shadow of his hand
> holding the torch...
>
My memory of Rupert Davies being the actor who played Maigret was
correct! :-) I looked it up. The whole 52 episodes are now available
on DVD, quite expensive at £53 or so though.

--
Chris Green
·